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Online Chat with Dr. Davis
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Discussion Topics: Niacin, triglycerides, resveratrol, fish oil, Vitamin D, calcium, LDL Cholesterol

February 21, 2007 transcript of online chat with Dr. William R. Davis and Members of Track Your Plaque.



This transcript is Copyright 2007 Track Your Plaque. Track Your Plaque Members may make copies for personal use.



(To make this raw transcript easier to read it can be copied and pasted into a word processor such as Microsoft WORD).



20:36:46 shanghi -> If your total bilirubin is 1.30 is it still ok to take niacin?



20:59:19 Dr. Davis -> Hi, everybody. Did anyone wish to start with any specific questions/comments?



20:59:53 Dr. Davis -> I'm curious: Has anybody explored the vitamin D issue that I've been harping about?



21:00:26 shanghi -> with a total bil of 1.30 is it still ok to take niacin



21:00:26 Dr. Davis -> I just blogged about another aspect of vitamin D that I hadn't appreciated before: that of raising HDL.



21:01:12 Dr. Davis -> Shanghi-I can only make general comments. I cannot advise you online to take or not take specific agents in view of medical problems. However...



21:01:41 Dr. Davis -> If no liver disease is present and you and your doctor decide that you've just got an isolated minimally elevated bilirubin, then it is indeed very safe.



21:02:03 Dr. Davis -> Niacin is quite safe. A lot of the scare about niacin is from its misuse or from the use of preparations that are slow release.



21:02:25 Dr. Davis -> The slow release niacin that leads to liver toxicity is still available in the health food store--don't buy it.



21:02:50 shanghi -> what is the best type to buy



21:03:07 Dr. Davis -> Our preferred form, one that has never caused liver toxicity in our large experience, is OTC SloNiacin. We get it at Walgreen's.



21:03:22 shanghi -> ok thanks



21:03:56 Dr. Davis -> Niaspan, or prescription niacin, is also a good form. However, it is shamefully expensive. i've actually witnessed a slightly greater side-effect profile with Niaspan.



21:04:15 Robert -> I am taking a capsule with Vitamin D but I notice that you have recommended a gelcap. Should I switch and try to find a softgel for Vitaman D?



21:04:36 Dr. Davis -> If you're stuck taking OTC (immediate-release) niacin, sometimes called crystalline niacin, then you could take it twice a day, e.g., 250 mg twice a day.



21:05:07 Dr. Davis -> You increase the dose very gradually, usually in 250 mg increments if immediate-release niacin is used. Be sure to hydrate yourself, regardless of what niacin preparation you choose.



21:05:32 Dr. Davis -> Hydration has been a really helpful strategy to minimize the hot-flush.



21:06:18 Dr. Davis -> I tell patients that, when taking niacin, drink two large glasses of water--not two sips and not two small glasses. Two big (e.g., 8-12 oz) glasses. This is very effective.



21:06:30 cadheart -> Vitamin C is important for CAD. Any trials result on REGULAR Orange juice



21:07:00 Dr. Davis -> did I understand the question: Whole orange juice as a facilitator of regression?



21:07:40 wcf241932 -> BAD LIPOPROFILE. LDL particle no.2600, small particle no. 1331. Heart Scan ZERO in 2004 and 2007. White female, 59 years old; mother died heart attack at 58. Normal weight, all other blood tests ok. BP 115/70 Take 1500 fish oil, much oat bran and nuts. Nothing helps bringing down LDL. Any suggestions?



21:07:56 Dr. Davis -> The data on vitamin C tends to be small and uneven. There is a small body of data that suggests that higher dose vitamin C may cause modest regressin of carotid plaque. I know of no data specific for coronary plaque.



21:09:03 Dr. Davis -> Hi, wcf--too little fish oil--4000 mg is our minimum; 1/4 to 1/2 cup nuts; you might try soy protein, a small effect but still helpful. Is your LDL small?



21:09:12 cadheart -> Will 3 cups a day of OJ raise Trigycleride



21:09:30 Dr. Davis -> You might also try Benecol, 2 tbsp per day, a stanol preparation that reduces LDL around 20 mg.



21:10:14 Dr. Davis -> Cadheart--that's an awful lot of orange juice! Yes it will, particularly if you have a "metabolic syndrome" or pre-diabetic tendency. Why not whole oranges?



21:10:18 dcarrns -> There was an article in Life Extension Magazine recently that pomegranate juice 50 ml per day was shown in an Isreali study to regress carotid plaque. Do you think that can be extrapolated to coronary plaque? What do you think accounts for the finding, is it related to an antioxidant effect?



21:10:24 wcf241932 -> Yes, small LDL is high: 1331, but HDL always in low 70's. Anything to worry about? And would "Slo-Niacin" help?



21:11:14 madcook -> What about concentrated fish oils that equal a total of 1800mg EPA/DHA? Is that as good as regular fish oils 4 x 1000mgs.? Less pills to swallow...



21:11:17 Dr. Davis -> dcarrns--I'm a little skeptical about the magnitude of enthusiasm being enjoyed by pomegranate. The study was small and performed by shareholders in the pomegranate manufacturer/distributor company.



21:12:07 Dr. Davis -> wcf--Contrary to popular opinion, you can have oodles of small LDL even when HDL is high. You are living proof. SloNiacin would be a great start.



21:12:38 Robert -> I've read a recent article about circumin and its antioxidant effects. Any thoughts on it?



21:12:44 wcf241932 -> I take Carlson's Liquid Fish Oil from Norway. Do you recommend this over



21:13:04 Dr. Davis -> madcook--Those fish oils are probably every bit as good. The best unbiased assessment of fish oils comes from Consumer Reports and ConsumerLab.com.



21:14:00 Dr. Davis -> Carlson's is an excellent source. Until we have confirmation from another source, in all honesty I've been advocating the fish oil at Sam's Club--about $8 for 400 capsules. That preparation was among the 16 assessed by the Consumer Reports analysis.



21:14:53 Dr. Davis -> Be careful of what fish oil manufacturers claim. All the manufacturers claim that theirs is more pure, has less toxins, etc. From independent testing, I know of no differences. It doesn't mean there are any. Perhaps more testing in future would shed light.



21:15:49 ken W -> Are fish oil product listed as pharmaceutical grade better than non Pharm. grade.



21:15:56 Dr. Davis -> Re: pomegranate. No doubt, pomegranate is a rich source of flavonoids. By what mechanism they exert any purported effect is not clear. It could be anti-oxidation, it could be modification of LDL responses, it could be some anti-inflammatory effect.



21:16:17 cadheart -> I try very hard to accomplish 60-60-60. If total Cholesterol is 110.. it is very difficult to make HDL near 60. With TC 110 what is best guide for LDL amountsince there is not enough cholesterol to make that much HDL...especially if you have LP(a) in equation. Ldl amount guide for me is?



21:16:18 dcarrns -> Dr. Davis, what is your opinion of krill oil as opposed to fish oil? The distributors make claims it is superior to fish oil, but I notice it is much more expensive.



21:17:10 Dr. Davis -> Ken W--Barry Sears (Zone Diet) would say so. However, I'm awaiting independent confirmation. I think this issue will be brought to a head by the extravagant claims of purity being made by the Omacor people, the manufacturers of prescription fish oil. They've been bashing non-prescription forms. I think this is unjustified.



21:18:14 cadheart -> Dr Davis Please look at my question above on 60-60-60 Very Important



21:18:30 Dr. Davis -> Krill Oil--no personal experience, however the concept seems sound. The easiest way for you and I to gauge effectiveness of a specific preparation is to watch triglycerides. If you start at, say 150 mg triglycerides, and you take x amount krill or fish oil, and triglycerides are now 67, that's pretty good proof of effectiveness.



21:18:58 wcf241932 -> Is Hawthorn beneficial to heart health if there is no congestive heart failure?



21:19:38 Dr. Davis -> cadheart--LDL and HDL should behave independently. Have you made sure that your vitamin D is around 50 ng/ml? This can be very helpful.



21:20:55 Dr. Davis -> wcf--I've found no useful purpose for hawthorne unless overt angina (chest Pains) are present. Hopefully, nobody in the program has angina. I essentially never see angina sufferers if you're following the program. Hawthorne has a modest anti-anginal effect.



21:21:52 mgendlin -> re: fish oil--any indication that price affects quality?



21:21:54 Dr. Davis -> Other "tricks" for raising HDL: eliminate wheat products, exercise, red wine, 40 grams dark chocolate (first ingredient cocoa).



21:22:07 ken W -> What about vitamin K2 - Life extension literature support it but are studies reliable.



21:22:23 onewaypockets -> hi Dr. Davis, re:cadheart question follow up. I too struggle with keeping my HDL to a "60" level. Are you saying normalizing Vitamin D levels help this? I know Vit D is linked to plaque regression...



21:22:40 Dr. Davis -> mgendlin--Manufacturers would claim that it does. I suspect that there might be some differences. however, I believe that you and i should insist on independent confirmation.



21:22:55 cadheart -> TC = TG/9 + HDL + LDL + others. If TC is like 110, LDL is 60.. you only got 40 left for HDL. So HDL =60 not possible



21:22:56 dadof4 -> Due to the HATs study involving supplements, my cardiologist suggested I go off all supplements other than my Niacin and Statin. (ie Vitamin C, E, Multi, etc) I believe the study results highlighted the negative interaction of high levels of anti-oxidants with a statin rather than all additional supplements. With this as a background, is a standard multi-vitamin with say 200% daily allowance of vitamin C something to be avoided if one is already on a statin and Niacin?



21:23:05 Dr. Davis -> Raising vit D, I'm convinced, is a powerful strategy to raise HDL in some people.



21:23:34 onewaypockets -> nice to hear, thanks!



21:23:52 wcf241932 -> Do you see any benefits in taking Alpha Lipoic Acid if glucose levels are



21:23:58 wcf241932 -> normal?



21:24:08 Dr. Davis -> Re: Vit K2. I know that Life Extension makes this claim. However, the data are skimpy. The Rotterdam Heart Study showed a relationship: the higher your K2 level, the less likely heart attack occured. However, no treatment data has been performed. It's interesting. It won't hurt to hurt a little aged cheese.



21:24:38 onewaypockets -> I [b]Really[/b] have a hard time with my HDL if I take any anti-oxidants, C, or E. Comments?



21:24:41 Dr. Davis -> Aged cheese is rich in vitamin K2. Don't--whatever you do--eat natto, the richest source of vit K2. It's disgusting. I ate it once and never will again.



21:25:45 Dr. Davis -> oneway--Although I've not seen this effect, this is exactly what G. Brown reported in the HATS Trial--that combination removed the HDL-raising effects of Niacin. I think that the argument in favor of vit E has withered, anyway.



21:25:56 ken W -> Should Resveratrol be taken as a supplement to get the amount that will have any cardiac effect?



21:26:11 Dr. Davis -> I am, however, interested in what will become of the fascinating and broader family of vit E relatives, the tocotrienols.



21:26:41 onewaypockets -> YES! It does seem to "un-do" the goodness of niacin. But eating lots of veggies and fruits don't seem to harm my HDL. My HDL seem SO fragile.



21:27:12 Robert -> A lot of people seem to tout Sytrinol. Do you have experience with it?



21:27:16 Dr. Davis -> Resveratrol is a puzzle. It has great effects in test tube experimental preparations, but it is very poorly absorbed by humans. It may be modestly helpful. I'd prefer red wine, particularly Italian, Corsican, or southern French.



21:27:39 dadof4 -> onewaypockets....Can you explain further your comments? Do you see differences in your HDL as a result of anti-oxidants?



21:28:17 Dr. Davis -> Robert--Sytrinol is simply a high-potency flavonoid combination. I tried it in several people and witnessed no effect on LDL reduction. (That's its purported effect.) Life Extension says it has data but it is proprietary and unpublished, to my knowledge.



21:29:27 dadof4 -> How about supplements with Hydrolyzed soy proteins? I've seen claims from Japanese research stating that these can also have a significant impact on HDL, however there isn't much out there on them on the web.



21:29:31 Dr. Davis -> dad--It's not clear why vits E, C reduce HDL. This was completely unexpected in the HATS, and it has been confirmed, though inconsistently, by others. I think the C is benign. But E I've eliminated or use no more than 400 units.



21:30:20 Dr. Davis -> dad-sorry. I don't know anything about hydrolyzed soy. If I come across anything interesting, I will post it to the Heart Scan Blog.



21:31:01 dadof4 -> Thanks. I'll see if I can dig up the info again and forward.



21:31:32 cadheart -> Will Cashews lower TG. Any effects on HDL, LDL.



21:31:50 Dr. Davis -> The whole flavonoid situation is endlessly fascinating. But, like all nutritional agents, suffers from minimal funding. Lipitor--loads of research. Epigallocatechin--(tea) we've got to scratch for information and research money.



21:32:01 wcf241932 -> Dr. Davis: Any comment about taking Alpha Lipoic Acid?



21:32:38 onewaypockets -> Hi Dadof4...yes, it's better if I don't take anti-oxidants by pill of any sort beyond a good multi. So I eat veggies, fruits, etc daily. If I take pill form of antioxants my HDL drops about 10 points



21:32:55 Dr. Davis -> I know of no specific health benefits of cashews. I worry that most cashews are roasted, often in unhealthy oils, and are low in fiber. They would not be my first choice. The bests nuts are almonds, walnuts, and pecans--brown fiber coating, high in monounsatuartes.



21:33:15 ken W -> With a high Calcium score what are top three supplements? Where does L-arginine



21:33:32 Dr. Davis -> wcf--I have limited experience in the diabetics taking Lipoic Acid. So no real opinions.



21:33:40 rkawills -> I've read that calcium supps are supposed to be taken with food (which increases absorption) but not with fiber (which decreases absorption). Since I'm eating lots of fiber now on the TYP plan, when should I take my calcium supp? Specifically, is it okay to take calcium with oat bran or psyllium?



21:33:52 Dr. Davis -> Ken-fish oil, vitamin D, l-arginine.



21:34:30 onewaypockets -> If I miss exercise for say, a week, my HDL drops 10 points. So, that and the antioxidants comment, I say my HDL is fragile. If I do everything perfect I can eek out 60 on the HDL. If not, it is around 50.



21:35:00 Dr. Davis -> rka--You should separate fiber and calcium. However, keep in mind that calcium dose almost becomes immaterial when vit D is truly replenished. My personal view is that very little calcium supplementation is necessary when vitamin D blood levels are 50 ng/ml.



21:35:15 Dr. Davis -> oneway-Wow! that is fragile.



21:35:48 Robert -> Does Vitamin D need to be taken as a softgel? Is that the same as the gelcap you recommend?



21:35:48 HeartHawk -> Yes, one-way - how often do you test?!



21:36:07 cadheart -> Do taking calcium supplement 1500 or so improve lipid profile



21:36:22 rkawills -> How much calcium do you recommend if your vitamin D level is over 50?



21:36:28 Dr. Davis -> Robert--great question!! I am rabid about this issue. let me shout this: TABLET VITAMIN D DOES NOT WORK! It must be a gel-cap for absorption.



21:36:42 onewaypockets -> I usually test my cholesterol via a home Cardio-Chek tester once a month. I do either VAP twice a year. Now I am going to do NMR test now it is available to me next month



21:36:47 Dr. Davis -> There's nothing more frustrating to take, say 4000 units of vit D as a tablet and see no increase in vit D blood levels.



21:37:07 Dr. Davis -> rka--I generally recommend around 750-800 mg per day.



21:37:22 HeartHawk -> Damn, I thought I held the record for testing - you got me beat!



21:37:27 onewaypockets -> lol



21:37:40 cadheart -> Are you saying that with proper Vit D..little calcium supplement is necessary for osetoprosis



21:37:48 onewaypockets -> Well...I've been in the cath lab 5 times...I don't want to go back!



21:37:49 Dr. Davis -> cadheart--no effect of calcium on HDL. did i understand the question?



21:38:09 HeartHawk -> :o



21:38:14 onewaypockets -> yup



21:38:36 wcf241932 -> Dr. Davis: Any opinion of Cod Liver Oil versus FishOil? Cod Liver Oil has a lot of Vit. D.



21:38:57 Dr. Davis -> oneway--perhaps you need a 2nd, 3rd opinion. I know that they're hard to come by in an unbiased, non-profit seeking way.



21:39:27 onewaypockets -> I understand...and my cardio is procedure driven.



21:39:39 onewaypockets -> So I just want to do TYP and stay away!



21:39:56 cadheart -> Are you saying with proper vit D, less calcium supplment is needed for osteoprosis.



21:39:59 Dr. Davis -> Cod liver oil in 2007 is different from the stuff Mom gave us. Today, it has gotten better. It does tend to be somewhat higher in saturated fat. Some people have claimed that pesticide residues are higher in cod liver oil, as well.



21:40:39 Dr. Davis -> cadheart--yes. However, there is no proof. John Cannell and I share this opinion. Studies of the effect of calcium on bone density show trivial effects. Vitamin D restoration shows phenemenal effects.



21:40:57 rkawills -> The American Heart Assn recommends daily aspirin for those at risk for heart disease. Since aspirin reduces clot formation at ruptured plaque sites, do you recommend it, say, for those with a calcium score above 0? If so, what dose? Or do you recommend Omega-3 fatty acids INSTEAD of aspirin, since Omega-3s also have an anti-clotting effect? Have any head-to-head studies been done comparing the heart benefits of aspirin vs Omega-3s?Is it okay to take both, or would the risk of bleeding be too hi?



21:41:37 Dr. Davis -> cadheart--I'm very concerned with your experience. we are working on a very provocative expose of this sort of practice. I'll keep everyone posted. this one's going to hurt!



21:41:46 onewaypockets -> And I believe that is the opinion of Dr. Vieth as well....good company~!



21:42:34 rkawills -> I recently had my Vit.



21:43:02 Dr. Davis -> rka--I've wondered the same, i.e., does taking fish oil obviate the need for aspirin. However, I know of no long term study that shows whether taking fish and oil and aspriin is equivalent or superior. I generally have anyone with a score of >50th percentile take 162 mg aspirin per day.



21:43:56 Dr. Davis -> By the way, you've all got to take a look at the wonderful webcast by Dr. Reinhold Vieth. One of our members brought it to our attention. You'll find the web address of this free broadcast on my Blog from about a week ago.



21:44:02 onewaypockets -> Might aspirin and fish oil compliment each other? By thinning blood in a different manner?



21:44:15 Dr. Davis -> vieth is perhaps the world's most knowledgeable expert on vitamin D.



21:45:12 Dr. Davis -> oneway--I think it does, but it's not clear whether "events" (heart attacks) are reduced further. Fish oil principally reduces fibrinogen. If your fibrinogen is >350 mg/dl, then you might obtained outsized blood-thinning effects from fish oil..



21:45:46 onewaypockets -> ...But an aspirin can also reduce hs-CRP along with fish oil?



21:46:15 rkawills -> I recently had my Vit.D level checked. The result was 41 ng/ml for total "25-OH-D2+25-OH-D3." But it broke it down into 25-OH-D2 (which was 6) and 25-OH-D3 (which was 35). Is my real Vit.D level 35 or 41?



21:46:20 Dr. Davis -> oneway--yes, both do. I know I hard on vit D, but it exerts HUGE effects on reducing CRP.



21:46:47 Dr. Davis -> rka--35 is the one you way, i.e., the 25-OH-vitamin D3.



21:47:35 Dr. Davis -> BTY--be sure your vitamin D is always 25-OH-vitamin D3, NOT 1,25-diOH-vitamin D3. This is a measure of kidney function, not vitamin D. confusing, huh?



21:47:59 onewaypockets -> I am absolutely sold on Vitamin D...and you cannot overstate it. I appreciate hearing about it. And it was very interesting to read in the last couple of years your slowing evolving thought about vit d (and other things as well). Interesting to hear vit d and CRP as well...



21:48:41 Dr. Davis -> Oneway--If you're worried about excessive bleeding from the combination of aspirin and fish oil, in real life it is virtually never a problem (unless you have some rare bleeding disorder). Some modest amount of blood thinnning is actually beneficial.



21:49:16 rkawills -> Has there been a study comparing Vit.D3 gelcaps versus tablets, or is this something you've gleaned from your experience?



21:49:17 onewaypockets -> Well...I am also on Ticlid for life as well, so I think about bleeding. Especially when I am shaving!



21:49:48 HeartHawk -> :D



21:49:53 Dr. Davis -> Interestingly, a (very credible) man e-mailed his experience with vit D: He claimed that, because of excruciating pain from collapsed thoracic vertebra, he took vit D and brought his level up--and grew 2 inches!



21:50:16 cadheart -> TC= TG/9 + HDL + LDL + others. If TC is like 110, LDL 60, you got only 50 left for hdl. Thus any hope for hdl getting to 60? With any TG or IDL its not possible IS IT..



21:50:38 bobtonachio -> lol



21:50:57 mgendlin -> our personal experience with both tablet and gel form= no results from tablet.



21:51:06 Dr. Davis -> rka--This I gained from experience, though it makes intuitive sense, since vit D is fat-soluble. Also--be doubly certain you take D3 or cholecalciferol, not D2 or ergocalciferol. Vieth has data showing no effect with D2.



21:51:14 onewaypockets -> I haven't had a cold since I started taking vitamin D (was taking 4k IU, now taking 6k IU). The since colon cancer runs in my family, as well as heart disease (me) I am going to take it for life. And it is dirt cheap...



21:51:51 Dr. Davis -> cadheart--Yes, these parameters behave independently.



21:52:28 Dr. Davis -> oneway--Same here. No flu or viral illnesses this year for the first time in many, many years.



21:52:48 onewaypockets -> And everyone around me is sick



21:52:53 cadheart -> How do TOFU affects lipid. How much to take.



21:53:02 Dr. Davis -> cadheart--Just having low LDL or triglycerides should not keep you from increasing HDL:.



21:53:30 Dr. Davis -> Tofu is a rich source of soy protein, so it has a modest effect on reducing LDL.



21:53:39 Robert -> Is Vitamin D changing the cholesterol profile or is it acting in some other way to help heart disease?



21:53:51 onewaypockets -> good question Robert



21:53:53 ken W -> with high homocysteine levels is sublinqual B12 with Folic Acid and B6 more effective since also on medication for GERD



21:54:18 Mike S -> Dr. Davis: Any comments on the use/benefit of supplement products such as those made by "N3 oceanic" or others claiming to be natural Omega-3 sources?



21:54:51 Dr. Davis -> Robert--Don't know. This is uncharted territory. I think that the HDL-raising effect is genuine but I don't know why it develops. Vitamin D is related to cholesterol in structure, so that raises some interesting questions, but I've not seen any major LDL-reducing effect.



21:55:20 Dr. Davis -> ken--B12 sublingual is indeed more effective than oral.



21:55:33 Dr. Davis -> Mike--Sorry, don't know anything about it.



21:55:37 wcf241932 -> If one gets ample time in the sun is there any benefit to taking Vit. D supplements?



21:56:17 Dr. Davis -> wcf--No, no additional benefit except to spare you from any increment in skin cancer risk. However, what do you mean by ample time in the sun? and what part of the country?



21:56:52 wcf241932 -> 10 minutes daily in Georgia......with a sunscreen.



21:57:03 Dr. Davis -> In Wisconsin, for instance, lying naked in your back yard in February yields no vit D whatsoever.



21:57:07 cadheart -> Glucomannan written to have large effects on Lipids. Any comments? It has 10 times its weight in absorbtion. Better than Psycillium. Comments?



21:57:09 onewaypockets -> wcf...I live in Los Angeles and my Vit D was REALLY low. And I go outside and visited Kauai in Oct and got sun burn



21:57:25 Dr. Davis -> wcf-the sunscreen effectively blocks D activation, so you're effectively getting little or no D.



21:58:18 cadheart -> I beleive its 50X not 10X. Glucomannan!



21:58:21 Dr. Davis -> cadheart--glucomannan, like all soluble fibers, does indeed reduce LDL, as does psyllium. The effect is roughtly equivalent, though no head-to-head comparisons have been performed, to my knowledge. both are pretty good for this purpose.



21:58:47 mgendlin -> Is there any down side other than $$$ to taking fists full of anti oxidants? There are articles published daily on their positive effects on cancer, diabetes, ect.



21:59:09 onewaypockets -> Inulin causes disturbing amounts of gas...:D



21:59:48 HeartHawk -> Got that right! lol



22:00:26 Dr. Davis -> mgendlin--Nobody knows. if they claim to know, they're lying. there's simply insufficient experience to know what, how many, what combination of anti-oxidatants are truly beneficial. That said, I don't think anyone could argue with you if you decided to take green tea capsules, drink green tea, eat dark chocolate, take pine bark extract, resveratrol, pycnogenol, vit C, or any of the other thousands of similar preparations.



22:00:43 Dr. Davis -> oneway--yes it does. but it does work.



22:00:48 cadheart -> Is this CHAT archieved. Thank You So much Dr. Davis.



22:01:07 HeartHawk -> It will be posted tomorrow



22:01:27 onewaypockets -> Thanks Dr. Davis ....for all that you do.



22:01:44 bobtonachio -> :D :D



22:01:50 rkawills -> thanks!!!



22:01:54 mgendlin -> Thanks bunches!!xoxoxo



22:01:56 Robert -> Ditto. Many thanks, Dr. Davis.



22:02:15 Dr. Davis -> I guess that does it. thanks for everyone's participation. i learn a lot about what everyone is wondering about from these chats. By the way, you may have noticed that we are aiming to have more extended chats in future, lasting hours with various TYP staff members. Stay posted! Have a great night.



22:02:32 cadheart -> Dr. Davis. Incredibles Hero. Thanks again.



22:02:39 chepworth -> Thanks for your time Dr. Davis. It was good to see you Monday!



22:02:51 HeartHawk -> Yes, the chat room will bve occupied more an more albeit at odd hours



22:02:54 dcarrns -> Thank you!



22:03:16 HeartHawk -> madcook - good to see you



22:03:33 HeartHawk -> have any chicken fried bacon lately



22:03:37 onewaypockets -> Thanks HH, for logging the chat



22:03:46 onewaypockets -> lol...on the Chicken Fried Bacon.



22:04:03 HeartHawk -> your welcome - I 'll get the transcript sometime tomorrow afternoon



22:04:26 onewaypockets -> Question HH....I know you have a LPa problem



22:04:26 HeartHawk -> Sad but true down in Texas



22:04:31 HeartHawk -> yup



22:04:43 onewaypockets -> have you considered testostrone patches?



22:04:53 onewaypockets -> and do you have your vitamin d checked?



22:05:00 HeartHawk -> yes, it did nothing but lowered my HDL unfortunately



22:05:04 onewaypockets -> i see



22:05:08 HeartHawk -> sucks!



22:05:20 onewaypockets -> back to that fragile hdl thing



22:05:56 HeartHawk -> yes it is about 40 and i'm having it tested again friday



22:06:11 onewaypockets -> i see...and how much vit d does it take to get to 40?



22:06:27 HeartHawk -> 2100mg i'm now at 4000



22:06:33 onewaypockets -> I posted on your blog that with 4,000iu mine only got to 34



22:06:40 onewaypockets -> I went to 6k IU



22:06:53 HeartHawk -> yeah its so cheap I may double again if it not up



22:07:01 onewaypockets -> yup...it is cheap



22:07:19 onewaypockets -> amazing...that much vit d is considereed toxic, but I am still low



22:07:29 onewaypockets -> the RDA is simply full of BS



22:07:30 HeartHawk -> I get it online, I was thinking of starting a list of where to get everything the cheapest



22:07:44 HeartHawk -> yup



22:07:47 onewaypockets -> oh yea...I love to shop for supplements online



22:07:56 madcook -> ha! Ha! HeartHawk... I had to step away for a moment... Just now catching up on the final part of the chat. I'm waiting for the hot weather to go visit that chicken fried bacon place... nothing like bacon, deep fat fryers and breading in the hot weather to git ya a ticket to the cath lab (gallows humor).How's the winter weather treating you?



22:08:09 onewaypockets -> those little vitamin shops are out of my budget (two kids)



22:08:32 HeartHawk -> yup on the shops, the weather finally broke and we out o the deep freeze



22:08:35 onewaypockets -> imagine what oil they deep fry in?



22:08:42 HeartHawk -> old oil!



22:08:59 HeartHawk -> pure trans-fatlol



22:09:10 HeartHawk -> lol



22:09:16 onewaypockets -> I wouldn't know how to live in your weather



22:09:27 onewaypockets -> i would die



22:09:29 HeartHawk -> yeah, not much sun!



22:09:48 HeartHawk -> so we blog and run websites instead lol lol lol



22:10:08 onewaypockets -> wow



22:10:26 onewaypockets -> ok...thanks for everything u guys. I will be following your blog HH.



22:11:11 HeartHawk -> I'll be looking for you - you know how we love seeing those comments! It gives me something to write about!



22:12:03 HeartHawk -> nice crowd tonight!



22:12:36 madcook -> Re supplements. I've been really, really happy with Iherb.com out in California. They have great pricing, quick and relatively inexpensive delivery charges and frequent additional discounting. For more exotic stuff MyHealthFirst (Dr. Ron) is really good... some stuff there you can usually only buy from medical sources. Sorry, I am not a great typist... hurrying here.



22:13:18 HeartHawk -> yeah, I got same problem. I am serious about putting up a page with the best supplement prices we find



22:13:32 madcook -> Hawk, will email, have to go now! Son calling from college. Bye. Great chat tonight!



22:13:38 HeartHawk -> cya



22:14:22 HeartHawk -> Well dadof4 looks like this party is breaking up - cya next time



22:14:55 dadof4 -> Bye. Sorry to be so silent. I've been googling some research in the background.

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