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Online Chat with Dr. Davis
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Discussion Topics: LDL particle nuber, lipoprotein(a), Vitamin D, magnesium, Vitamin K2,

July 10, 2008 transcript of online chat with Nurse Dawn Davis, RN and Members of Track Your Plaque.

This transcript is Copyright 2008 Track Your Plaque. Track Your Plaque Members may make copies for personal use.

(To make this raw transcript easier to read it can be copied and pasted into a word processor such as Microsoft WORD).

12:58:18 ddavis -> Member Chat: Good Morning or is it afternoon? Nice to see you joining me!

12:58:45 ddavis -> Member Chat: Does anyone have basice questions they need answered?

13:01:05 ddavis -> Member Chat: Hmmm...any questions regarding heart scanning or lipoproteins? Don't be shy!

13:01:20 Greenie -> Member Chat: Thanks for the chat Dawn. What would you consider to be a good LDL particle number and a good small LDL particle #. Thanks....Greenie

13:02:27 ddavis -> Member Chat: Well, a good LDL particle number optimal < 700 nmol/L and small less than 200 nmol/L!!

13:02:50 ddavis -> Member Chat: Have you reached that goal in your program?

13:03:44 [Message (Priv.)] kzembrosky -> kzembrosky: Hi Dawn, My Lp(a) went from 170 to 246 even though I was doing everything Dr. Davis said. I seem to have a very bad genetic problem that I can't do anything about. I'm scared.

13:05:04 ddavis -> Member Chat: WOW!!! Do you recall your starting numbers? What different things have you done to reach these numbers?

13:06:38 Greenie -> Member Chat: My numbers dropped dramatically on TYP. I also take 10ml lipitor a day and am careful with diet. I need to do better on wheat - bread and cereals.

13:07:07 ddavis -> Member Chat: As you all probably know havign the small LDL floating around is a "bad" thing. Weight loss is jus tone way of increasing LDL size.

13:08:09 Greenie -> Member Chat: For folks who are in regression, how long does it take them once on TYP?

13:09:23 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: Hi Dawn, My Lp(a) went from 170 to 246 even though I did everything Dr. Davis said to do...niacin, DHEA, etc. I was shocked and can't stop thinking about it. I'm scared and I feel as if I'm "doomed" to have a "coronary event"--sooner rather than later. My small LDL was not affected that much by eliminating carbohydrates, either. VERY bad genetic profile!

13:09:50 ddavis -> Member Chat: Greenie, excellent question. I'm going to say in our practice alot of it is based on how motivated the patient is. It can be anywhere from 1-4yrs. in all honesty.

13:11:16 Greenie -> Member Chat: My agatston score increased from 80 to 100 but my calcium plaque volume decreased from 79 to 72 so I think I am close to regression after just one year on TYP.

13:11:47 ddavis -> Member Chat: KZ, DO NOT GIVE UP! We see this daily where pts say they have been doing everything they were told but things go the other direction. Do not feel doomed. OPTIMISIM is a must in the TYP program.

13:12:07 sergad -> Member Chat: just entered here. I am curious as to what you tell people as to the timing of when to take their supplements and whether it's ok to take them all at once.

13:14:03 ddavis -> Member Chat: Depends on the supplements. Vit. D can be taken at anytime, Fish oil some patients have difficulty with nausea so I instruct them to take them with food. I take my fish oil in two seperate times with food!!

13:14:41 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: I WAS optimistic before I found this out! I felt as if I was DOING something. Now I feel helpless and and that TYP can't help me. I don't want to come back for bloodwork 4 mo. from now and find out the Lp(a) has gone up again...

13:14:42 ddavis -> Member Chat: Was there other supplements you were looking for advice for?

13:14:57 ddavis -> Member Chat: KZ,

13:16:14 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: Yep, still here.

13:16:18 Greenie -> Member Chat: Which supplement have you found to be the most effective at lowering blood pressure, i.e. CoQ10, D3, etc.

13:16:23 ddavis -> Member Chat: KZ, Remember sometimes results don't occur for a months sometimes years! You have to maintain the motivation and optimism.

13:16:51 ddavis -> Member Chat: Sorry everyone having some phone problems...never fear...keep going!

13:16:56 winlove eduarte -> Member Chat: The typ program, advise against wheat, corn and rice. So Dawn, Could please tell us wht you and Dr. Davis eat, sy on a daily basis or for a week?

13:17:35 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: I will try. Just hope something doesn't happen in a couple of those years! Thank you very much, though.

13:17:43 ddavis -> Member Chat: Greenie, VIT D by far for lowering blood pressure!! That little capsule is truly amazing!!

13:19:43 Greenie -> Member Chat: I talked to a nurse from Lab Safe yesterday and he said one of their patients had horrible numbers when they started, particle numbers in the thousands, etc.....after a year or so, their numbers dropped enormously and particle numbers were in the 200-500 range. The nurse asked the patient what they did, and they said they found a site they've been following called Track your Plaque!

13:20:28 ddavis -> Member Chat: Winlove, Breakfasts= oatbran with blueberries, egg whites with greens, nuts are a few examples. Lunch= greens as in salads/raw veggies/ omelettes with a dab of asiago cheese (today) Dinner= salads, veggies occ. fish. We can never get sick on salads and all the different kinds.

13:21:36 ddavis -> Member Chat: Greenie, we have to continue to get the word out there. I see the results every single day.

13:21:53 Greenie -> Member Chat: I have almost everyone I know taking vitamin D! They all rave about it too! I love the mental clarity it gives me. Amazing stuff!

13:22:37 Greenie -> Member Chat: I stick by my prediction that some day Dr. Davis will win the Nobel Prize. No doubts.

13:22:55 sergad -> Member Chat: my plan calls for vit d, folic acid, b6 b12 magnesium CoQ10 At this point I take them all at once. I take the L-arginine and fish oil separately

13:23:08 ddavis -> Member Chat: Not only mentally clarity but I've noticed a "huge" change in my immunity. I just don't get sick anymore. I sleep better, tan better and my list could go on!

13:23:25 ddavis -> Member Chat: Sergad,

13:24:18 Greenie -> Member Chat: My in laws are in their 80s and are like 40s since they've been on vit D. An incredible transformation in them! They each take 6000iu. a day.

13:24:36 ddavis -> Member Chat: The L-arginine should be taken on an empty tummy for better absorption. Folic acid/B vitamins to my knowledge do not have to be taken at any specific time.

13:25:33 ddavis -> Member Chat: If there is any supplement I would tell everyone to take it would be vitamin D ohhh and fish oil. My dogs come running for it at night!!!

13:26:02 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: Wait, Dawn--you give fish oil to your dogs?

13:26:10 Greenie -> Member Chat: I take l-arg, l-citrulline, l-carnitine, and d-ribose....all together on an empty stomach when I first wake up and have no side effects.

13:26:35 ddavis -> Member Chat: KZ, I do! 1,000 mgs for their coat to shine and less dander and it works!

13:27:05 Greenie -> Member Chat: Cool! I wonder if I can get my horses to take fish oil for their coats!

13:27:20 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: How much should I give to a 50 and 65 lb. standard poodle, respectively? THAT IS SUCH A GOOD IDEA!

13:27:24 ddavis -> Member Chat: Thanks Greenie for you comments on supplements!

13:28:34 ddavis -> Member Chat: 1,000 mgs should do it!

13:28:55 ddavis -> Member Chat: Has everyone had heart scans?

13:29:13 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: Okay, they're getting it as ASAP! Thanks so much for this great idea!!

13:29:29 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: I have...

13:29:38 ddavis -> Member Chat: I'm thinking in five years I'm getting my first one:-)

13:29:43 Greenie -> Member Chat: Actually, heart disease and stroke are common in dogs so the fish oil is a great idea! Get our pets all on TYP! :)

13:30:00 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: YEAH!!!!

13:30:22 winlove eduarte -> Member Chat: Ihave avoided wheat, corn and white potatoes. I switch to purple potatoes, and yams. I have a book,(OKINAWA PROGRAM).This is the main Carbs for the OKINAWANS.Longivity is the highest in the world and also very Heart disease. Wht is your opinion?. Will this raise the small ldl?

13:32:19 ddavis -> Member Chat: Gosh Winlove, I haven't heard of that book before, I'm afraid I don't have a comment one way or the other. I'm not sure potatoes of any kind would help switching small LDL to large LDL. Does anyone else have any comments?

13:33:14 ddavis -> Member Chat: I will look into that book though!

13:34:40 ddavis -> Member Chat: Does everyone have their HDL near 60mg/dl?

13:34:55 ddavis -> Member Chat: Welcome AlK

13:36:01 Greenie -> Member Chat: My HDL is VERY stubborn! 41. I have started taking PC and coconut oil to try to get it up, plus more exercise. My other #s are great except the low HDL!

13:36:01 ddavis -> Member Chat: Regarding the HDL, we've seen HDL jump anywhere from4-20 points just by adding the vitamin D!

13:36:14 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: Mine is 88, ironically enough. Too bad it doesn't do me any good with the Lp(a)!

13:36:28 ddavis -> Member Chat: Greenie, how much PC do you take?

13:37:03 ddavis -> Member Chat: PC=phosphatidylcholine

13:37:11 Greenie -> Member Chat: Since I am still evaluating it I take 2 caps per day.

13:37:19 winlove eduarte -> Member Chat: Re: OKINAWA PROGRAM book, were authored, by three cardiologist, from Harvard, and Japanese university. They have done extensive and thorough, including blood work. Anyones opinion, is welcome.

13:39:28 ddavis -> Member Chat: Greenie, let us know if the PC does you any good. Post your evaluation on the forum when that day comes. I'm just starting to dabble in that area.

13:40:12 Greenie -> Member Chat: I've done a lot of reading on PC and it sounds great! I'll see what my panel looks like in a few weeks with it.

13:40:33 ddavis -> Member Chat: Anyone with Niaspan questions??????? That's a hour long discussion in its own!

13:41:18 sergad -> Member Chat: my spouse is highly allergic to fish and seafood. the allergy is actually to fish oil. any thoughts about substituting flaxseed oil?

13:42:49 ddavis -> Member Chat: Yes, that would be your next best bet to fish oil. The omega 3's occur as linolenic acid. She may have to take a lot more flaxseed oil to get the same effects!

13:43:00 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: I know Dr. Davis tries to avoid meds when at all possible which I appreciate greatly. However my sister keeps asking me why I'm not on an ACE inhibitor for my "arterial health." I know they're antihypertensives, but what do they do for "arterial health" except expand the arteries? Do they make them more "elastic" or something? Plus I don't think I could tolerate such a med since my BP runs extremely low.

13:44:55 ddavis -> Member Chat: KZ, have you discussed L-arginine with your doctor? L-arginine is an amino acid that dilates the arteries. Look on pg. 159 in the TYP book!

13:46:24 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: No, he never suggested it. But my sister takes L-arginine.

13:46:48 ddavis -> Member Chat: We really don't use a lot of the L-arginine in the TYP program too much anymore but it's still worth trying

13:47:22 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: What purpose does it serve again?

13:48:13 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: Oops, just said!

13:48:26 ddavis -> Member Chat: L-arginine relaxes the coronary arteries. Not a problem!

13:49:41 ddavis -> Member Chat: Has anyone had any experience with vitamin K2?

13:50:58 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: I know cheese is a good source of K2.

13:51:01 Greenie -> Member Chat: I take Jarrow K@...2 per day...not sure if it helps or not but the research on it was compelling enough to include it. Dr. D is big on K2 and recommended it to me.

13:51:02 ddavis -> Member Chat: Anyone with Lp(a) questions?

13:52:07 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: You mean, anyone ELSE! I need to control myself!

13:52:08 ddavis -> Member Chat: Greenie, yes he is. We don't have a lot of pts taking it yet. A few are dabbling with it. It's somewhat difficult to find for some reason.

13:53:16 ddavis -> Member Chat: KZ, don't worry this is so informal. This is 101 remember not advanced class. We're here discuss what we can.

13:53:50 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: Thank you.

13:54:42 ddavis -> Member Chat: Has anyone found that eliminating wheat from their diet has proven to be a struggle?

13:55:41 sergad -> Member Chat: I took my test less than a month ago. My plaque count was 549 (I am 56). After my first visit with a cardiologist, he switched my 20 mg of Simvasatin to 40 mg of Lipitor and then put me on 80mg of Diovan. I had already found your website and began the program. My question is how will I know what will be the cause of my hopefully better readings? My levels were HDL 76, LDL 109 and Tri 99. My doc was totally ambivalent about the TYP program.

13:56:30 ddavis -> Member Chat: We've found it to be extemely difficult for some and easy for others. The ones that have found it easy to eliminate have lost a "huge" amount of weight and seem to be able to focus better. I'm going to make the attempt after July 20th!

14:00:13 ddavis -> Member Chat: Sergard, the change in statin agent will hopefully lower that LDL even more. Diovan is usually prescribed for blood pressure issues. Hopefully your doc. recommended taking fish oil and Vit. D??? To answer your question if you've already been on the vit. d, fish oil and have a "healthy" ( I don't like using that word with diet) they all work together. Does that make sense?

14:00:53 ddavis -> Member Chat: So, they work in combination with each other!

14:01:46 sergad -> Member Chat: my doctor said nothing about any of the suggested supplements. He said "I could try them if I want". He then ordered the stress echo cardiogram which I am having next week. My family doctor suggested getting a second opinion.

14:02:59 ddavis -> Member Chat: Who asked me about what we eat at home? I didn't hear any comments back, hopefully you don't think we're nutz?!!

14:04:20 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: No, not nutz. Just a bit "spartan!"

14:05:21 sergad -> Member Chat: is there any type of bread substitute that one could use to make a sandwich? I saw the rice bread at Trader Joe's and it looked pretty bad.

14:08:44 ddavis -> Member Chat: AHH, Trader Joes! I love that store. A bread substitute 'eh? Sergad, I do believe that rice bread will still have a rise in blood sugars. Forgive me since I don't know you if you have weight that needs to come off I would avoid any types of bread or their substitutes. Sorry. How about a turkey roll-up? As in rolled up with lettuce and tomato?

14:09:39 ddavis -> Member Chat: I think we all have that liking for bread or their substitutes!

14:10:01 brother3 -> Member Chat: How about sprouted grain breads, like Ezekial?

14:11:27 ddavis -> Member Chat: Hi brother3, this too has that blood sugar raising effect. I've tried Ezekial once and I did not care for the texture....

14:12:55 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: my dr wants me to take rx vit d for a month is that a good idea

14:13:45 ddavis -> Member Chat: How about almonds and walnuts, raw that is? They are rich in monounsaturated fats and are good for you. They also reduce LDL, reduce blood sugar so you don't crave that bread!!! Any thoughts anyone?

14:14:26 ddavis -> Member Chat: gonetokiowa, I'm guessing this is RX vit. D 50,000iu?

14:14:38 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: yes

14:16:54 ddavis -> Member Chat: We don't use RX vitamin D simply because we have seen patients using this before they came into see us and really had no benefit with their 25 hydroxy vit D3 levels. We've seen better results with the oral gel or oil based vitamin D.

14:17:27 Greenie -> Member Chat: Just returned from buying 8 pounds of wonderful organic Colorado cherries! Lots of fructose I know, but also lots of resvreratol and other good things. They are the best cherries in the world BTW.

14:17:36 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: Do pistachio nuts have the same benefit? I hope so since the amount I can eat is limitless.

14:18:37 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: I already take 3000 over the counter capsules my D has come from 17 to

14:19:13 ddavis -> Member Chat: Greenie, I just heard today our cheeries here in WI are not going to be good this year due to all the rain we received. So enjoy them.

14:19:16 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: 31 in 6 months should i just stay with that

14:19:44 Greenie -> Member Chat: Try the NOW brand vit D....2000iu per softgel. My D level went from 32 to 72 in a few months on 8000 a day.

14:21:09 max -> Member Chat: KZ, yes pistacchio nuts, RAW are excellent!

14:21:27 kzembrosky -> Member Chat: Hoorah!

14:21:41 Greenie -> Member Chat: Dawn, what do you folks recommend for frequency of scans, annual?

14:22:36 max -> Member Chat: gonetokiowa, May I suggest you talk with your doc. regarding increasing your vitamin D3 capsules provided you need to increase them. Did you have a level drawn?

14:23:16 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: yes it was up to 31 after 6 months

14:24:03 max -> Member Chat: Greenie, Depends on a couple of things...age and sex of the patient.

14:25:16 Greenie -> Member Chat: Are you guys in the office tomorrow? I'll overnight you some CO cherries as a little gift from us TYPers.

14:25:47 max -> Member Chat: We usually recommend men over the age of 40, women over the age of 45 with a family history for a first scan and a repeat scan 1 yr after lipoprotein abnormalities have been corrected.

14:26:58 max -> Member Chat: For everyone, I am now "MAX" named after my dog. My other computer became too hot and crashed. So again, I am now MAX and not ddavis!!

14:28:39 max -> Member Chat: Greenie, we are in the office but you don't have to do that! Eat them for us and improve your heart scan score:-) That is very generous!

14:29:29 Greenie -> Member Chat: I insist. I'll Fedex them to you for a little afternoon snack for the staff there! Enjoy.

14:30:05 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: I am a new member female 55 have a score of 100 I am just not sure how to start this process Diet exercise supplements it just seems overwhelming

14:30:17 max -> Member Chat: Greenie, I missed your comment on the Vitamin D. My vitamin D level as well went from 35 to 71 by a taking 3,000 iu purchased from the Vitamin Shoppe!

14:30:38 max -> Member Chat: Thanks Greenie, you're a gem!

14:31:56 max -> Member Chat: gonetokiowa, Have you had your lipoproteins drawn yet? Your 25 hydroxy vit D3 level drawn yet? This is a great place to start. These numbers will tell you the cause of your plaque!

14:33:49 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: only vit d and cholesterol panel

14:34:01 max -> Member Chat: Once you have identified your cause of your plaque you will be able to correct the causes by using our program...under the care of your doc. that is. This is the most important next step! You don't smoke do you?

14:34:30 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: no smokeing

14:36:06 max -> Member Chat: May I suggest you ask your doctor to have a lipoprotein analaysis panel done through LipoScience, I can certainly provide with their phone number. They can then direct you to a lab that draws these specific blood draws in your area.

14:36:45 max -> Member Chat: So glad to hear you don't smoke!!! No one else you????

14:37:13 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: I have borderline high throid can this effect plaque? that number would be great

14:39:45 max -> Member Chat: gonetokiowa, Yes, it certainly can. In all honesty, I'm very new to the thyroid issue. Dr. Davis and Heart Hawk have several different posts on our forum regarding this issue. Can I suggest you approach the forum for a better understanding. I'm simply not the person to ask, pehaps next chat I myself wil be better educated.

14:43:17 max -> Member Chat: One thing we haven't really talked about is the importance of sleep and exercise in our program. How many of you feel that you are sleep deprived and in return just don't feel like exercising?

14:45:08 Greenie -> Member Chat: I also am on male hormone therapy...testo as well as HCG, on Dr. Crisler's protocol. The addition of HCG injections has helped my sleep considerably. I also take magnesium at bedtime which helps.

14:45:34 max -> Member Chat: I've noticed in my own daily life that if I suffer from sleep I become less ambitious, increased hunger and just don't feel like doing anything.

14:47:17 max -> Member Chat: Magnesium at bedtime...I haven't heard of that. Do you take magnesium glycinate or citrate? Yes, I have heard the positive effects of HCG ad sleep.

14:50:28 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: how much exercise do you recomend ?

14:53:36 max -> Member Chat: gonetokiowa, Well you're asking a exercise nut. For our purpose of Track Your Plaque and regression. I think it's important to get 30-60 min of aerobic exercise in daily. I would also encourage you to wear a pedometer and attempt and strive to put on 10,000 steps per day equivalent to 5 miles a day. That's tough if you sit behind a computer all day.

14:54:29 gonetokiowa -> Member Chat: is that 10000 plus 30-60 min

14:54:49 max -> Member Chat: I also am firm believer in stress reducing exercises such as yoga. I think we wll need to take time out for ourselves.

14:57:02 max -> Member Chat: gonetokiowa, I'm sorry that was, 10,000 steps is a great start. If you have the time to get in another 30-60 min of aerobic activity that certianly would not hurt your program. Thanks for making me clarify.

14:59:46 max -> Member Chat: Well, thank you who joined in our first 101 chat. Let us know on the forum orby using the contact button on the home page if you feel this had any benefit to you. As always it's been a pleasure. Thanks for being a part of our unique community. Chat soon. Dawn

15:03:59 Greenie -> Member Chat: I take a combination magnesium supp....a little of each kind.

15:04:44 Greenie -> Member Chat: Thanks for a great chat, Dawn. I've got a package to send out before the Fedex truck arrives! Have a great weekend...Greenie

15:44:29 wkachele -> Member Chat: Read this on Heartwire today,,,,,,High levels of HDL cholesterol a poor marker of cardioprotection when adjusted for apoA-1 and apoB

15:48:15 wkachele -> Member Chat: Here ia a quote that is of interest, When adjusting for Aop-1 and other lipoprotein variables, a high level of HDL might be a poor marker of cardioprotection, and in contrast Apo-1 may be associated with decreased major cardiac event across the whole range

15:49:06 wkachele -> Member Chat: This is whehter adjustments for HDL or apoB are made!

15:50:11 wkachele -> Member Chat: I guess my timing is off and I missed the chat period.

15:50:13 wkachele -> Member Chat: Regards

15:50:17 wkachele -> Member Chat: DR. Kachele

16:31:18 dferrer -> Member Chat: I just got here to see what is going on and how to make this work.

16:36:15 dferrer -> Member Chat: We need to get beyond the LDL only thinking.

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