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Online Chat with Dr. Davis
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Discussion Topics: Paleo DIet, Co-Q10, statins, l-carnitine, homocysteine, DHEA, torcetrapib

October 18, 2006 transcript of online chat with Dr. William R. Davis and Members of Track Your Plaque.



This transcript is Copyright 2006 Track Your Plaque. Track Your Plaque Members may make copies for personal use.



(To make this raw transcript easier to read it can be copied and pasted into a word processor such as Microsoft WORD).



21:02:31 Dr._Davis: Welcome! We can wait a moment or two until some more members join in. In the meantime, I can begin by fielding any questions.



21:03:27 Robert_: Dr. Davis, I know that you are concerned about wheat products. How do you feel about steel cut oatmeal as a regular breakfast item?



21:03:35 Dr._Davis: We've changed our Chat format software. Those who desire a transcript of the session can do so by clicking on the button below the text.



21:04:20 Dr._Davis: Robert- Steel-cut oats are OK. Oat products contain beta glucan, a soluble fiber. It's wheat products that really wreak all the harm.



21:04:51 Dr._Davis: It's my firm belief that if we could remove most, perhaps all, wheat products from grocery shelves, that we all would be far better off.



21:05:40 Robert_: Do you have a similar concern for corn or grits?



21:05:43 Dr._Davis: I first heard this strategy many years ago and considered it bunk. But Dr. Loren Cordain has really persuaded me that this is true. I've since used this strategy in many patients, and myself, with great success.



21:06:38 Dr._Davis: Corn and grits are kind of intermediate--they don't have the lower glycemic index nor the beta glucan of oats. I think they're intermediate in desirability--not bad, not terribly great.



21:07:18 Dr._Davis: I'm a big fan of functional foods, or foods that result in some specific benefit. Neither corn nor grits, to my knowledge, achieve any sort of nutritional benefit.



21:07:23 pattayo: Dr. Davis, As regarding your October 10th blog, I suspect that my ever increasing arms pains are statin related. I stopped my Lipitor and Niaspan for a week now, and my arms are much better. Besides taking more Co-Q 10, do you have any additional suggest



21:08:32 Dr._Davis: Pattayo--Several possibilities, though I can't offer specific medical advice over the Chat. First, taking more CoQ10 is the best way if you can afford it. Doses up to 300 mg are sometimes necessary.



21:08:48 bobtonachio: Good evening!



21:08:58 Dr._Davis: Altenatively, a change in statin may help. Sometimes a "vacation" from your statins of, say 2 weeks, can really help.



21:09:49 Dr._Davis: Let me pose a question. Has anyone else stumbled on any unusual strategies for statin relief? I've heard that some people are using l-carnitine with success, though I've not had any experience with it for this purpose myself.



21:10:32 hearthawk: Co-Q10 at 100mg per day works fine for me.



21:10:52 Dr._Davis: The statins, in my experience, will result in muscle aches in the majority. The longer you take them, the more likely you're going to get them. So , in all reality, just expect to get them. Thankfully, rarely does it result in any ill long-term effects.



21:11:00 Robert_: I take 200mg Co-Q10 and it seems to really help.



21:11:04 pattayo: Thank you and I will try the two week "vacation" before considering a change of meds. I also do take l-carnitine, 1,000 mg. daily.



21:11:37 Dr._Davis: Also, be sure your CoQ10 is oil-based. This can make the difference between success and failure for relief.



21:11:53 hearthawk: What do you take the l-carnitine for specifically, just muscle-aches?



21:12:21 Dr._Davis: How is everyone doing with their vitamin D issues? Are you able to persuade your doctors to check vitamin D blood levels?



21:12:46 Robert_: My doctor has never mentioned Vitamin D and I have never been tested for it.



21:12:58 Dr._Davis: I think that vitamin D is among the most important issues we've come upon in a while, but I get concerned that it's so new that many practicing physicians will balk at the idea of checking levels.



21:13:12 Dr._Davis: Remember, the level to check is "25-OH-vitamin D3"



21:13:13 pattayo: The l-carnitine is supposed to help with my pre-diabetic pattern?



21:13:37 Dr._Davis: I don't know of any data that l-carnitine helps a pre-diabetic pattern.



21:13:47 hearthawk: I have heard it is also useful to lower lipoprotein(a)



21:13:59 hearthawk: L-carnitine that is



21:14:10 Dr._Davis: I do find l-carnitine useful, however, for Lp(a) reduction (though modest), occasional weight loss accelerating effects, and increased libido in men (small).



21:15:10 Dr._Davis: L-carnitine was shown in two small Italian studies to reduce Lp(a) by around 8-13%. My experience is that, like all things surrounding Lp(a), the response is highly variable. Sometimes a small reduction, sometimes 30% reduction, sometimes none.



21:15:48 Dr._Davis: I'm not sure of why the response shows such variation. But, after all, Lp(a) has at least 31 different known subtypes.



21:16:05 Dr._Davis: No responses on vitamin D?



21:16:35 Robert_: My doctor has never suggested that I be tested for it and I haven't been.



21:16:54 Dr._Davis: Sorry, Robert. I looked up and saw your previous answer. I would urge you to have a level checked.



21:18:02 Robert_: I have a somewhat high homocysteine level. I take 1200mg folic acid. Should that be enough to bring it down?



21:18:05 Dr._Davis: Of course, the vitamin D issue is a bigger problem in northern climates, deprived of sun. But studies suggest that, even in warm, sunny climates like Florida and Hawaii, up to 50% of people are substantially deficient. Checking a level clears up doubt.



21:18:41 Dr._Davis: The high homocysteine has become an increasingly murky issue in light of the two recent studies, NORVIT and HOPE-2.



21:18:46 Dr._Davis: How high is your homocysteine?



21:18:55 Robert_: 13.8



21:18:55 pattayo: I have had an improved Lipid profile since adding Vitamin D.



21:19:32 Dr._Davis: I ask because my view is that high homocysteine is several different disorders, depending on the level. In general, levels above 20 may represent a different disease than lesser levels.



21:20:10 Dr._Davis: Your level is probably okay. Increasing folic acid is the easy answer. Doses of 2000-5000 mcg (2-5 mg) per day are non-toxic and safe.



21:20:40 Dr._Davis: Pattayo's comment regarding vitamin D is something I've observed also: replacement of D makes everything else easier.



21:21:44 Dr._Davis: Did any of you folks get a chance to review our special report on postprandial disorders and, if so, did you have any questions on this very important aspect of plaque control?



21:22:36 Dr._Davis: If you struggled with the concept, there's really one bottom-line lesson: take fish oil. Every day, I am in awe of the power for fish oil to accelerate clearance of dietary fats from the blood. It's an astounding effect.



21:23:05 Robert_: I read it. It is very interesting. I have been taking more fish oil since reading it.



21:23:41 Robert_: How do you know if you have this disorder?



21:23:47 Dr._Davis: About the homocysteine: NORVIT and HOPE-2 both suggested that homocysteine levels of 12.5, when reduced by 25% by B vitamin therapy, provided no reduction in heart attack or stroke.



21:24:31 bobtonachio: Is there such a thing as taking too much fish oil.. If so how much is too much?



21:24:55 Dr._Davis: Robert- The easiest way to know is if you have elevated triglycerides, usually 100 mg/dl or higher. A better way is to have your lipoprotiens checked and look for either IDL or VLDL. Both are fasting measures but reflect postprandial (after-eating) patte



21:25:48 Dr._Davis: Yes, you can take too much fish oil but it's a lot. Rarely does someone need to go above 6000 mg fish oil per day (providing 1800 mg EPA+DHA), unless you have triglycerides that are sky high.



21:26:30 Dr._Davis: Occasionally, I'll come across someone with a triglyceride level of 500, 1000, even 5000. These people take up to 12 capsules (12,000 mg) per day with no ill-effect. A calorie burden, however.



21:26:59 Robert_: On homocysteine, does the NORVIT finding basically mean that homocysteine is a marker and not a cause in and of itself of heart disease?



21:27:21 Dr._Davis: There continues to be the occasional scare in the media and among physicians that fish oil exposes you to mercury and pesticides. But the best information is that exposure is minimal if any.



21:28:19 Dr._Davis: Yes, it could simply be a marker. But for what? Nobody knows. I believe that very high homocysteines that are due to genetic defects may be very different than the levels of 10-20 that are due to folic acid, B12, or B6 deficiency.



21:28:27 madcook: Any thoughts on how I can get my cardio Dr. to order a NMR profile? He seems to be content to monitor the usual LDL-C, HDL, Triglycerides, Total, etc. (I had a Berkeley over a year ago, but not from him. I had to join a study to get that. It showed several subfractions, not great.)



21:28:50 Dr._Davis: For those of you with the energy, I also wrote an exhaustive summary of homocysteine for Life Extension magazine. See www.lef.org for free reprint.



21:29:35 hearthawk: Yeah, I am always curious to know how local doctors treat heart scans and testing things other than LDL and HDL. Mine suggested my LDL was so low I shouldn't worry about anything else - WRONG!



21:29:36 Dr._Davis: Madcook--You could scream and yell for your Dr. to order an NMR. What you can't get him/her to do is to interpret it intelligently.



21:30:17 Dr._Davis: I think that the best way to get NMR is to go to the www.liposcience.com website and contact them for your local representative. He/she will know who the DRs. are who are savvy about NMR.



21:30:51 pattayo: Sorry, but is the l-carnitine for fat metabolism and the chromium picolinate connected with pre-diabetes? And yes, I read your article on homocysteine. It was very interesting.



21:31:39 Dr._Davis: Lipoproteins are very gradually working their way into the lexicon of the everyday cardiologist and internist, but it does require extra expertise and education. Every major city should have at least a couple of doc's who understand the technology.



21:32:46 Dr._Davis: It continues to shock me that lipoproteins are not used more widely. A new sort of specialist called a "lipidologist" is also starting to populate the landscape. They will help, since they are familiar with all forms of lipoprotein testing.



21:33:27 Dr._Davis: Pattayo-Yes, both your comments are correct.



21:33:33 hearthawk: Find a good doc who knows his stuff! My regular doc of 25 years told me not to worry while my relatives are all dropping dead of heart attacks. Thank God I found Track Your Plaque or I'd probably be one of them!



21:33:43 Dr._Davis: Are you having any success with chromium?



21:34:18 Dr._Davis: I'm truly uncertain how much of an effect chromium packs. I've used it many times but have been disappointed with its lack of effects.



21:35:00 pattayo: I guess I am not sure, but my glucose tests are staying around 100.



21:35:13 hearthawk: What about magnesium?



21:35:44 Dr._Davis: If you're unable to get full lipoproteins checked, a second best would be to get basic lipids with separate Lp(a), cardiac CRP, fibrinogen. This leaves only small LDL and IDL as the "holes".



21:35:59 madcook: Find a good doc? My Dr. wrote one of those (1998 or 2000) books on "Reversal". I am eagerly awaiting Dr. Davis' anticipated report on "Reversal" programs. Maybe titled "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" LOL!



21:37:02 Dr._Davis: The report on reversal will be out later this week or early next. In it I mostly summarize the background for what we do. My beef is that if you claim reversal, you need to prove it.



21:37:21 Robert_: I have a very low LDL but am still dealing with a small LDL particle number that is too high. Is there any concern about LDL-C getting too low(it is 29)?



21:37:32 Dr._Davis: Too many programs over the years have made extravagant boasts about reversal, but failed to provide a way to measure or prove it.



21:37:49 hearthawk: I'm an engineer. Track Your Plaque is the first program that made any sense to me and that includes Ornish who I used to live by (and might have died by)



21:38:45 Dr._Davis: Robert- Nobody knows. Uncharted territory. If we ask Loren Cordain, he will tell you that human infants have lDL of 35-50 without ill effects. Primitive humans that don't get cellophane wrapped, microwavable, just add water foods have LDLs of 50-70 withou



21:39:01 hearthawk: Wow! 29? I thought I was low at 50!



21:39:15 Dr._Davis: I've not personally witnessed any specific deleterious effects of low LDL, but who can say what happens over an extended period?



21:39:49 Dr._Davis: Some have raised concerns over drops in sex hormones with marked LDL reduction. Vitamin D metabolism is also part of cholesterol metabolism but, thankfully, is not affected by LDL reduction.



21:40:10 hearthawk: What are you taking? Statins, niacin?



21:40:40 Robert_: 10mg Crestor, high dose niacin and high dose fish oil. And a better diet.



21:41:01 hearthawk: Yeah me too but only 5mg of Crestor



21:41:08 Dr._Davis: Also, remember that LDL cholesterol usually means CALCULATED LDL that is notoriously inaccurate. You really need to look at LDL particle number (NMR) or apoprotein B to know what LDL truly is.



21:41:47 hearthawk: How much niacin?



21:41:57 Dr._Davis: LDL cholesterol that is 100 mg/dl off is an everyday occurrence for me. Someone will have a LDL cholesterol of 94 but the real number is 194! It's not as rare as you'd think.



21:42:07 Robert_: That 29 number is from a Berkeley test, so I assume it is an actual number. I am taking 2500mg Niaspan.



21:42:31 hearthawk: I'm on 3000mg of Niaspan



21:42:41 Dr._Davis: LDL cholesterol that is 100 mg/dl off is an everyday occurrence for me. Someone will have a LDL cholesterol of 94 but the real number is 194! It's not as rare as you'd think.



21:42:46 madcook: If I'm on a statin and Zetia and Niaspan to force my numbers down, could these effect my estrogen, progesterone and testosterone levels? (I use compounded bioidenticals). I was shocked by last blood test that showed estrogen and progesterone levels abysmally low, despite replacement. Could statin or others be interfering?



21:43:20 madcook: Whoops... 56, female and postmenopausal.



21:43:54 Dr._Davis: Madcook--Probably not. The data is very incompletely developed. If you're using topical hormone preparations, you want to be sure that they're truly effective forms. For example, plant sources may not yield genuine progesterone. But we routine use topical



21:44:12 Dr._Davis: hormones along with LDL reduction with statins or otherwise and still get desired effects by blood levels.



21:44:41 Dr._Davis: Do you know what you're taking in the way of topical hormones?



21:45:27 Dr._Davis: Robert-Even if the LDL is from Berkeley, it's still calculated. You really need the apoprotein B from Berkeley. It should be part of your report.



21:46:00 Robert_: I didn't realize that. My apo B was 42.



21:46:42 Dr._Davis: During the momentary lull, I'd like to mention that we are aware of the fact that navigating this program is hard for some. We are actively working on ways to enhance user ease--e.g., videos, interactive guides, etc. but it'll require some time. Stay tune



21:46:58 hearthawk: I was disappointed taking topical testosterone. I felt great but it did not lower my Lp(a) which is why I was on it, and it whacked my HDL down 10-15 points



21:47:25 Dr._Davis: Robert-Apo B of 60 mg/dl is ideal, so yours is not that low. Is it too low? I think that only becomes an issue if it remains low over a sustained period of, say, 6 months.



21:48:02 chepworth Logs in [24.11.162.243]



21:48:14 Dr._Davis: hearthawk--Yes, that is disappointing but unusual. Lp(a) is a chimera of molecules that provides for unpredictability of response.



21:48:42 hearthawk: Just my luck!



21:48:46 Dr._Davis: DHEA is a little explored alternative to estrogen and testosterone for Lp(a). That may be worth a try



21:49:09 madcook: Topicals: Bi-Est .625 (80/20 estriol/estradiol)/ml = bid and Progesterone 25mg/ml= 75mg daily). These are from a reputable compounding pharmacy in Houston. Are you saying it could be a quality control issue with the pharmacy?



21:49:14 Dr._Davis: DHEA may work by way of testosterone. But it could also work by other means. Very little data.



21:49:40 Robert_: Why isn't lower apo B a good thing? I thought a lower LDL particle count waw helpful.



21:49:49 Dr._Davis: If someone could discover a profitable drug for Lp(a), it would make the front page. As it stands, we struggle with effective therapies for Lp(a).



21:50:53 Dr._Davis: Apo B is the same as LDL, just a lot more accurate. Nobody really knows what happens to humans when LDL dips really, really low. That said, clinical trials with limited numbers have shown that LDL's of 40-50 over 2 years yield no ill effects.



21:51:35 Dr._Davis: But don't forget that there's also a lot more to heart disease and your coronary plaque control program than LDL cholesterol. If we could all take a statin and be done, then it'd be easy!



21:53:06 Dr._Davis: Madcook--Something's fishy. I don't know what it could be--are you putting your creams on thin-skinned areas like chest, arms, shoulders? Sometimes putting it on fatty areas like abdomen (sorry) or buttocks or thighs inhibits absorption into blood.



21:53:16 Dr._Davis: Madcook--



21:53:28 pattayo: Better diet was mentioned - That is a constant challenge for me. I am looking more into soy products, but could sure use some suggestions.



21:53:53 Dr._Davis: Madcook--You could also try an alternative preparation and see whether it works. We use Women's International Pharmacy and routinely see substantial blood level rises.



21:54:56 hearthawk: Yeah, I used that pharmacy by mail and my testosterone levels shot way up



21:55:13 Dr._Davis: Pattayo-You're fighting a battle in a sea of unhealthy food marketing. Take a look at South Beach. It's a good fit for most people. The recipes are pretty good. I think it's a little lax on glycemic index, but nonetheless a good all-around diet.



21:55:44 Dr._Davis: We're also in the process of trying to "beef up" (sorry) our food and recipes section and sources. Stay tuned.



21:56:42 dadof4: At what age should children have lipid profiles done if they are offspring of someone with a hereditary lipid profile.



21:56:48 madcook: Thank you. Yes, I know where to apply it (LOL!), and it isn't on the belly or where I sit... guess this is one to thrash out with the gyn Dr. and maybe find a new pharmacy or a patch to try to bump up the estrogen, else why the bother and expense to supplement?



21:57:18 Dr._Davis: In the future, we're hoping to provide more in-depth commentary on foods--preparation, cooking, shopping, etc. Frankly, I'm a very mediocre cook. The crazier our website is getting, the less time I get to make dinner! So watch for our recruited experts.



21:58:10 Dr._Davis: Madcook--I agree. Supplementation should yield rises in blood levels, pure and simple. Any effects of statins should be trivial or small that should be easily overwhelmed by exogenous replacement.



21:59:45 Dr._Davis: I'm a great believer in bio-identical hormone replacement. But we also struggle with getting physicians to prescribe them. The drug companies have done a very effective job of persuading ("brainwashing"?) the doc's that synthetic hormones are the only



21:59:47 Dr._Davis: Choices.



22:00:15 Dr._Davis: Any last questions?



22:00:17 Robert_: Dr. Davis, many thanks for your good work.



22:00:34 madcook: I would love to see a creative "Track Your Plaque" recipe and foods section on the website. Should we be sending in recipes? In case you haven't guessed, I love to cook. THANKS! This was great!



22:00:44 hearthawk: I saw in the NY Times where your Health Food Expert Michel Nischan just opened a health oriented restaurant with Paul Newman. Does that mean I can start eating Newman's Own products? (Just kidding)



22:01:05 pattayo: Yes, many thanks also.



22:01:26 dadof4: I arrived late tonight, is there anyway to get a copy of the entire chat session?



22:01:30 Dr._Davis: Yes, absolutely. Send us recipes.



22:02:04 Dr._Davis: dadof4--Look down and you'll see a button that allows you to do jus that, i.e., get a transcript. We just added this feature.



22:02:31 Dr._Davis: Good night, everybody! See you on Blog!



22:04:05 hearthawk: Anybody still want to talk. It's early for me.



22:04:37 dadof4: If anyone has been on since the beginning and would be willing to email me the transcript, please let me know. I can only see the messages from when I joined.



22:05:22 hearthawk: Yeah, I e-mailed DAvis at contact@trackyourplaque and he send he would e-mail them to me



22:05:35 chepworth: Same here. If anyone can send that would be great! My E-Mail is:



22:05:50 chepworth: hepworth.cd@pg.com



22:06:41 hearthawk: Apparently transcripting is a new feature so this is the first chat it is available for. I hope it works.



22:06:50 dadof4: If someone is willing to copy and paste it from the link below, I'd appreciate it to: pedersen@tcinternet.net



22:07:21 dadof4: I signed on about 10 minutes before the end and the only part I can capture with the transcript button is the last 10 minutes.



22:07:25 hearthawk: I ask for it to be posted on the website then we can all download it.



22:08:03 dadof4: HH, have you been on since the beginning of the chat?



22:08:16 hearthawk: yeah, I have



22:08:31 pattayo: I have been on from the beginning, but apparently do not know how to make a copy.



22:09:04 dadof4: Click on the 'Displays a copy-able transcript of all messages' It will bring up a text box which can easily be copy and pasted to an email.



22:09:15 hearthawk: Me either. Davis said something about a button but I don't see it.



22:09:41 dadof4: It is the 6th button from the left. Right between the 'sound' and '+' button.



22:09:50 hearthawk: He did reply to my e-mail and said he could get a copy that why I will ask for it to be posted omn the website



22:09:53 dadof4: Any luck?



22:10:35 hearthawk: yeah but that doesn't seem to be all of it



22:10:56 dadof4: Okay, that will work fine. Thanks for checking.



22:11:37 dadof4: Any breakthrough ideas presented tonight?



22:11:40 hearthawk: I have some experience with the Sigma CHat software they use and transcripts should be available



22:12:00 madcook: Thanks everybody... I look forward to getting the whole transcript (I too only get the transcript from when I signed on). Hopefully it will be available on the website. Good night.



22:12:02 hearthawk: Yeah, fish oil is a wonder drug



22:12:31 dadof4 Logs in [66.77.224.202]



22:12:46 hearthawk: I didnt ask



22:13:10 hearthawk: What do your docs say about heart scans mine was a complete dope



22:14:47 dadof4: Mine wasn't interested in them prior to seeing my results. I think many docs think they are marketed too broadly to the masses to make money.\



22:15:17 hearthawk: Hell, mine told me my LDL was low and not to worry. Then I had my heart scan



22:16:09 dadof4: Mine was aware of my low HDL and has been treating it for years with Niacin. Not sure when my calcium occured. (before or cumulative)



22:17:00 dadof4: He was shocked when he saw mine and recommended a statin. Went to cardiologist and he put me on 5 mg Crestor.



22:17:22 hearthawk: All I know is I could be dead by now. The first thing Davis did was put me on Niaspan and that knocked my calcium score growth to zero the first year



22:18:02 dadof4: How many years have you been into this?



22:18:37 dadof4: Are you also on other meds? I'm on 1g Niaspan, 5 mg Crestor.



22:19:04 hearthawk: well, six years but before davis's boOk I was on my own



22:19:35 dadof4: I hope for the same thing. (no increase) How long has the book been out?



22:19:42 dadof4: How many times have you had a scan?



22:20:20 hearthawk: I take 3g Niaspan, 5mg Crestor, 20mg Zetia and I'm about to add 145mg of fenofibrate (tricor) to get my lp(a) down



22:20:38 hearthawk: lets see Five



22:21:05 hearthawk: No six



22:21:24 hearthawk: Scores of 78, 92, 92, 121, 155, 188



22:22:13 dadof4: Mine was 132 the only test. That was in Feb.



22:22:25 hearthawk: How old, I'm 51



22:22:36 dadof4: You got me. 39



22:23:02 hearthawk: What's your problem, just low HDL?



22:23:44 hearthawk: Mine is high lp(a)



22:23:50 dadof4: I also think particle size, however I didn't take the VAP test without being on Niacin. (which improves particle ratio)



22:24:05 hearthawk: I also had low HDL to start but the Niaspan fixed that



22:24:23 hearthawk: Yeah, Niaspan works good for particle size too



22:24:47 dadof4: My HDL was a low of 27 when I was in my early 20's. It has increased as I aged, exercised and took Niaspan. I was on 2g at one time.



22:24:59 hearthawk: Yeah I started at 30



22:25:06 dadof4: Where are you now?



22:25:07 hearthawk: last test was 74



22:25:12 dadof4: WoW!



22:25:21 dadof4: That rocks!



22:25:42 dadof4: I've been wondering if I should increase my Niacin.



22:25:56 hearthawk: Watch out tho, my test before that was 63 but only 25% HDL2b subfraction which is the part that does all the work



22:26:09 dadof4: I've had mine up to 50 on the VAP test.



22:26:24 dadof4: My lpa is 5



22:26:25 hearthawk: Niaspan and Crestor is what I attribute my rise to



22:26:46 hearthawk: wow, I'll trade ya lp(a) is a bitch to get down



22:27:00 hearthawk: ANd really nasty stuff to boot



22:27:50 dadof4: My HDL-2 is 11 and my HDL-3 was 39 on my VAP test last week. I think HDL-2 is the same as the HDL2b?



22:28:20 hearthawk: yeah, probably, I study this stuff as much as I can but there is SO damn much



22:28:55 dadof4: How much were you able to improve your HDL2b? Do you have readings before and after Niapsan?



22:29:36 hearthawk: yeah, my first retest went from 30 to 45vwith almost 50% HDL2b after niaspan



22:31:05 hearthawk: This new ETC-216 synthetic HDL that Pfizer is working on REALLy rocks. Reverses plaque after only 5 weeks



22:31:07 dadof4: You must be using the NMR test? Does your dr balk at repeating the test.



22:31:26 dadof4: That must be the APO-Milano stuff?



22:31:41 hearthawk: YUP



22:32:19 dadof4: If I remember from earlier reading, it is not meant for regular use, rather roto-rooter work when needed. Do you have any good references you could forward.



22:34:24 dadof4: If Niaspan got you to 45, did Crestor bring it up to 74. That is a 250% increase. (75/30)



22:34:50 hearthawk: YUP thats what I attribute it too



22:40:30 hearthawk: will do. I find the biggest problem is psychological rather than physical, people just need to know that are other people in the same boat and that all is not lost



22:40:34 dadof4: Sorry, I just got dropped for some reason when my connection failed.



22:40:41 hearthawk: it happens



22:42:15 hearthawk: I was just saying that the biggest problem is psychological and people need a support network to undertand that you can beat this thing



22:42:43 hearthawk: its not a death sentence



22:43:18 dadof4: got it. Most people are really clueless about this stuff. I talk to many people 'watching' their cholesteral but have no idea of other lipid tests or heart scans.



22:43:42 hearthawk: My relatives were dropping like flies right after their physicals



22:43:50 hearthawk: Now I know why



22:44:06 hearthawk: ALl my relaitives got tested right after me - same genetic problem



22:44:26 dadof4: Yikes. Good news is that as far as I know, it isn't in my family to that level. Which genetic problem, low HDL and high Lpa



22:44:35 hearthawk: lpa



22:44:50 dadof4: Did you say how high?



22:44:58 hearthawk: and low HDL to some extent



22:45:07 hearthawk: 140



22:45:40 hearthawk: We're dying and none of our doctors are testing for it!



22:45:41 dadof4: Well, I can only hope to only be at a score of 180 when I'm 51



22:45:54 dadof4: heart scan score



22:45:57 hearthawk: It's possible



22:46:32 hearthawk: Hell I've had increases of 0% now I gotta figure out what I did!



22:46:42 dadof4: unfortunately, I've got to run now. Send me an email offline. Thanks for the support.



22:46:48 hearthawk: OK, cya
 

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