Lipoprotein(a) Research Foundation

There is no longer any doubt that lipoprotein(a) is a major causal factor in heart disease:

Meta-analysis (combined re-analysis) of 27 prospective studies:
Danesh J et al. Lipoprotein(a) and Coronary Heart Disease: Meta-Analysis of Prospective Studies


Lp(a) and "subclinical" atherosclerosis
Brown SA et al. The relation of lipoprotein[a] concentrations and apolipoprotein[a] phenotypes with asymptomatic atherosclerosis in subjects of the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) Study.

Lp(a) and oxidized LDL
Tsimikas S et al. Oxidized phospholipids, Lp(a) lipoprotein, and coronary artery disease.

Lp(a) predicts peripheral vascular disease
Valentine RJ et al. Lp(a) lipoprotein is an independent, discriminating risk factor for premature peripheral atherosclerosis among white men.

Peltier M et al.Elevated serum lipoprotein(a) level is an independent marker of severity of thoracic aortic atherosclerosis.


Lp(a) across various populations
Gambhir JK et al. Association between lipoprotein(a) levels, apo(a) isoforms and family history of premature CAD in young Asian Indians.

Weber M et al. Metabolic factors clustering, lipoprotein cholesterol, apolipoprotein B, lipoprotein (a) and apolipoprotein E phenotypes in premature coronary artery disease in French Canadians.



Lp(a) and stroke risk
Jurgens G et al. Lipoprotein(a) serum concentration and apolipoprotein(a) phenotype correlate with severity and presence of ischemic cerebrovascular disease.

Willeit J et al. Lipoprotein(a) and asymptomatic carotid artery disease. Evidence of a prominent role in the evolution of advanced carotid plaques: the Bruneck Study.




From just about any direction, Lp(a) has been conclusively associated with atherosclerotic disease. We have more than enough data proving association.

But there are two areas of desperate need:

1) Data on effective treatments.

2) Raising awareness of this widely unknown (among the public) and ignored (among health professionals) genetic condition.

Treatment remains a real struggle. In a recent detailed Track Your Plaque Special Report, Unique Treatment Strategies for Lipoprotein(a) Reduction, we summarized the treatment approaches that have some power to reduce Lp(a) and/or its potential for causing heart disease. But, even armed with an appreciation for the world's scientific literature on this genetic condition, full control remains difficult for many people.

Track Your Plaque's HeartHawk has Lp(a) and he has struggled with this pattern for the last several years. He details some of his thoughts in a recent blog post.

More research and clinical studies are required and we need it soon if we hope to gain better control over this genetic pattern that affects up to 20% of people with coronary or vascular disease. Much of the needed research is sophisticated, background work similar to that being done by Dr. Santico Marcovina at University of Washington, Dr. Angelo Scanu at the University of Chicago, and Dr. Sally McCormick in New Zealand.

However, much of the needed research also consists of brief clinical experiences that detail whether or not there is an effect of various potential agents. Larger experiences, for instance, with potential treatment agents such as various phospholipid fractions, acetylcysteine, antibiotic regimens, some hormonal treatments, etc. could be performed quickly and simply. These studies would not require the $20 or $30 million typically spent by a drug company for a study, nor the several hundred million dollars to gain FDA approval of a new agent. They would simply be examinations of existing agents. These studies still cost money, require expertise, staff, and equipment. But the cost is a tiny fraction of the drug industry's investment in research. But it also means that investment return is nil from a drug manufacturer's perspective. Yet there are literally dozens, perhaps hundreds, of agents that hold some promise but have not been thoroughly studied.

For instance, if a specific modification of the phosphatidylcholine molecule were to generate a substantial Lp(a) reducing effect, Merck, Pfizer, and AstraZeneca would yawn--it is non-patent protectable, cannot be protected from competitors through the costly FDA approval process, and therefore is simply not worth their investment--regardless of whether it works or not.

(This is yet another example of how the drug industry, as well as hospitals and many health professionals, have lost sight of their real mission: to alleviate disease, not to profit from sickness.)

HeartHawk and I have discussed on a number of occasions whether a Lipoprotein(a) Research Foundation should be formed, an organization that seeks to fund the smaller research efforts that may accelerate productive research in Lp(a) and perhaps yield useful strategies faster than hoping for somebody to simply stumble on a treatment, or wait for the drug industry to create a unique, patentable entity that returns billions.

I'd like to propose that our Track Your Plaque program begin to fund such an effort. But a lot more help will be needed, particularly to generate the money to fund genuine, high-quality research from high-quality researchers.

If any readers of the Heart Scan Blog have any thoughts or insights into this process of creating a foundation, we'd appreciate your input.

More on ASTEROID

Since we are on the topic of the ASTEROID trial and rosuvastatin, I'd make one more point before I start to sound like I'm plugging this drug (which I definitely am not).

In an informative Roundtable Discussion (open to subscribers to the American Journal of Cardiology; sorry) amongst Dr. Steve Nissen, principal investigator behind ASTEROID; and Drs. Vincent Friedewald, Christie Ballantyne, P. Shah, and William Roberts, Dr. Nissen made some interesting comments:


Dr. Shah: In ASTEROID, was the magnitude of atheroma volume change seen across different levels of LDL-C and HDL-C?

Dr. Nissen: No. There was no plaque regression seen in the 17 persons with LDL-Cs >/= 100 mg/dl, and there was little change in persons with LDL-Cs of 70 to 100 mg/dl. Only in persons with LDLs less than or equal to 70 mg/dl was there significant regression. The study was not powered to look for an HDL-C(which increased by 14.7%)-raising effect.



Interesting. In other words, ASTEROID, in a fairly internally consistent way, suggests that the lower the LDL is reduced, the more likely plaque regression is obtained. This is consistent with the Track Your Plaque experience, in which we've advocated reducing (calculated) LDL cholesterol to 60 mg/dl for the past several years.

Unfortunately, the message that the ASTEROID Trial sponsors, AstraZeneca, as well as the roundtable discussion panel (later in the discussion) try to make is that there is something magical about Crestor, that it yields benefits superior to other statin agents or other means of reducing LDL.

I disagree with this message. In the Track Your Plaque experience, we do aim for a similar LDL target. But we also employ a number of other strategies. We have also succeeded in regressing plaque without use of any statin drugs (though, admittedly, many people do require statin drugs to obtain LDLs in this range). We also witness magnitudes of reversal that often far exceed that seen in ASTEROID.

The Rountable Discussion is unfortunately tainted, as is the ASTEROID Trial itself, with deep drug industry financial involvement of the Roundtable participants. In fact, the discussion begins with a listing of the financial disclosures of the participants, a listing that occupies a full column of a two-column page. The potential biases of the participants doesn't necessarily invalidate the arguments, but to me suggests that participants are more likely to argue in favor of the sponsor's drug, or that participants were chosen because of these biases.

Why bother to even mention the ASTEROID Trial in a venue (the Heart Scan Blog, that is) that purports to seek unvarnished, unbiased truth in coronary plaque reversal? Because useful information can sometimes be found in unlikely places. Just like the four-year old child who blurts out an unexpected pearl of wisdom, so it can happen with the gobbledy-gook that emerges from the drug industry.

Every once in a while, they are worth paying attention to.

LDL cholesterol, statins, and plaque regression

The ASTEROID Trial reported in 2006 examined the effects of LDL cholesterol reduction using the statin drug, rosuvastatin (Crestor), with coronary atherosclerosis quantified and tracked with intracoronary ultrasound. The Track Your Plaque report, New study confirms: LDL of 60 mg reverses plaque, on the ASTEROID Trial provides commentary on the results.


Though I remain skeptical that a statin-only treatment strategy can reverse coronary plaque in the majority of people, I do believe that the AstraZeneca-sponsored ASTEROID Trial does add to the wisdom on heart disease management. More importantly, it has served to raise awareness among both the public and my physician colleagues that atherosclerosis is indeed a potentially reversible condition.


Specifically, the ASTEROID results confirm that, either directly or indirectly, LDL cholesterol reduction achieved with statin agents does correspond to increasing degrees of plaque reversal. The mean (calculated) LDL cholesterol achieved in ASTEROID was 60 mg/dl, the same as the Track Your Plaque suggested LDL target.

Though the ASTEROID Trial is not news, I stumbled on a chart posted on the ASTEROID Trial website that clearly highlights how a number of other studies beyond ASTEROID have fallen into this pattern:





The graph reveals a linear relationship: The greater the reduction in LDL cholesterol with statin drugs, the greater the plaque regression ("change in percent atheroma volume"). (Several other studies not included in the graph also cluster into the same linear relationship.)

I am no supporter of drug companies, nor a defender of their policies and practices. But I do believe that their data can serve to teach us a few lessons. For instance, here is an (cherry-picked, to be sure) example of intracoronary ultrasound cross-sectional images before and after two years of rosuvastatin, 40 mg daily:





The color-coded/outlined atherosclerotic coronary plaque is shown shrinking, while the "lumen," or the path for blood to flow, enlarges. The reduction in coronary plaque is irrefutable. (The small circle within the lumen with the white halo surrounding it is the ultrasound catheter.)

If you and I were to choose a single treatment approach to coronary disease reversal, then 40 mg of rosuvastatin is probably at the top of the list. However, in the Track Your Plaque program, we do not advocate a single treatment strategy. While the Crestor-only approach is relatively straightforward--one pill a day--few people, in my experience, can tolerate this dose for any length of time. Patients invariably have to stop the drug or reduce the dose severely due to muscle aches when I've had patients try it. Contrary to the ASTEROID results, in my experience the majority of people, perhaps all, eventually give up with this improbable "one-size-fits-all" scheme.

The Track Your Plaque approach, while more complicated and involves several nutritional supplements and strategies, in my view addresses more causes of coronary plaque, is better tolerated, and provides health benefits outside of just LDL cholesterol reduction. It also minimizes or eliminates the need for prescription medication.



Studies cited in graph:

1.Nissen S et al. N Engl J Med 2006;354:1253-1263.
2 Tardif J et al. Circulation 2004;110:3372-3377.
3 Nissen S et al. JAMA 2006;295 (13):1556-1565
4 Nissen S et al. JAMA 2004;292: 2217–2225.
5 Nissen S et al. JAMA 2004; 291:1071–1080

When is a calorie not a calorie?

One ounce of raw almonds (about 23 nuts) contains:


6 grams protein

14 grams fat

6 grams carbohydrate

3.5 grams fiber

For a total of 163 calories per ounce.


(From the USDA Nutrient Database)


Calorie content of foods is determined by summing up the calories from each constituent: 1 gram of fat = 9 calories; 1 gram protein = 4 calories; 1 gram carbohydrate = 4 calories. Calorie content can also be directly measured using a device called a burn calorimeter, in which the amount of energy released from a specific food is measured by literally burning it and gauging precisely how much energy is released.


The problem with both of these methods is that it is assumed that all foods are digested with equal efficiency. That is, it assumes that a potato chip is as readily digested and absorbed as energy from table sugar, a pretzel, oatmeal, a piece of steak, or a handful of nuts. In real life, of course this is not true. Different foods are absorbed with varying efficiency.

For a long time I've suspected that some foods are very inefficiently absorbed. I've particularly suspected that raw nuts are relatively poorly absorbed and thus yield only a fraction of the calories ingested.

Among the studies recently reported at the Federation of the Association of Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) meetings I attended in San Diego this past week were several devoted to almonds.

One study, to my surprise, documented this phenomenon. In Manipulation of lipid bioaccessibility of almonds influences postprandial lipemia in healthy human subjects, it was determined that, of 100 calories ingested from the fat fraction of almonds, only about half was actually absorbed. The remaining half passed out in the stool. (They did this by collecting stool samples and comparing the fat composition after eating the different almonds prepartions. This is not discussed in the limited text of the abstract.) In addition, postprandial (after-eating) surges in triglycerides were much less with whole almonds compared to the oil separated from the nut (i.e., broken down into almond oil + defatted almond flour). The researchers attributed the difference to the inhibitory effects of the almond nut's "food matrix," or the structural properties of chewed foods.

Add to this the fact that, of 6 grams of carbohydrate per ounce of whole almonds, 3.5 grams are indigestible fibers. This means that 6 - 3.5 = 2.5 grams of digestible carbohydrates are present per ounce (assuming 100% release).

If we follow the reasoning that only about half the fat fraction of almonds are absorbed, and assume that the protein and carbohydrate (minus the indigestible fibers) are absorbed efficiently (100%), then we would re-calculate the calorie content of almonds to be 97 calories per ounce, or 40% less than calories calculated by composition or measured with a calorimeter.

If we were to assume that protein and carbohydrates were, like fats, inefficiently absorbed because of the effects of the food matrix, then one ounce of almonds yields 88 calories per ounce, or 46% less. This is, in fact, a likely scenario, since the food matrix is largely created by the cell wall and should impede digestive access to fat, protein, and carbohydrate equally.

My point? Almonds and other nuts at first appear to be calorically dense due to fat composition. However, this simplistic view of nuts is misleading because of the confounding effects of the food matrix. Stated differently: Whole foods yield less calories. And, judging by the postprandial triglyceride effects: Whole foods yield less undesirable effects, such as postprandial rises in triglycerides.

Some other observations with almonds included:

The effect of almonds on plasma lipids in persons with prediabetes This study confirmed the LDL-reducing and modest HDL-raising effects of almonds.

Almonds (Amygdalus communis L.) as a possible source of prebiotic functional food This curious observation suggests that almonds modify the bacterial flora of the intestinal tract in a positive way (like the cultures in yogurts).



Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

Track Your Plaque data abstract

An extraordinary thing happened about 2 1/2 years ago.

While we have been following the Track Your Plaque program for coronary plaque regression for nearly 10 years, about 2 1/2 years ago we witnessed an extraordinary surge in success--bigger, faster, and more frequent drops in heart scan scores.

Up until then, we did witness significant reversal of coronary plaque by heart scan scores. We were planning to publish the data to validate this approach, but then . . .

Heart scan scores starting dropping not just 2%, or 8% . . . but 24%, 30%, 50% and more. Why? I attribute the surge in success to the addition of vitamin D.

Unfortunately, it also meant that the preceding 8 or so years of data lacked experience with supplementing vitamin D. The hundreds of participants in the Track Your Plaque program had not, until then, included vitamin D in their program.

So I decided to start from scratch (from the standpoint of data collection, not for the participants). That also meant that the preceding years of experience went unreported, though even that data far exceeded the results of what is achieved in conventional heart disease prevention.

Thus, the data I presented at the Experimental Biology Proceedings (FASEB 2008) in San Diego this week included only experiences in the group of participants that included vitamin D in their program, with data collected until mid-2007. The number of experiences is therefore modest.

However, the Track Your Plaque experience, as reported, far exceeds any prior experience in coronary plaque regression.

The full abstract will be published in the Track Your Plaque website.


Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

Small fish oil capsules

Many people complain about the size of fish oil capsules. Let's face it: They're usually big and kind of smelly.

Women in particular struggle with big capsules. This becomes a real problem when somebody requires high-dose fish oil for treatment of post-prandial (after-eating) abnormalities, high triglycerides, or lipoprotein(a), when 6 or more--occasionally up to the equivalent of 20--standard fish oil capsules are required.

I came across a small capsule alternative for people who struggle with the big capsules. It's a product called Learn from PharmaOmega, a source of super purified fish oil.

The Learn product is actually made for children, since omega-3 fatty acid supplementation has been linked with improved intellectual performance. But the small capsule size is convenient for women and other people who would like to avoid the big standard-sized capsules.

Each capsule is about 60% of the size of a standard fish oil capsule (the smaller capsule in the photo, next to a standard size fish oil capsule), yet contains 375 mg EPA + DHA per capsule, 25% more than standard capsules (which contain 300 mg per capsule). The ratio of of EPA:DHA is a little more heavily weighted towards EPA with a 5:2 ration, compared to 3:1 of standard capsules. The capsules are also faintly orange flavored and non-fishy.





Disclosure: I receive no compensation for discussing or promoting this product.


Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

Low-carb eating for diabetes

Jenny provided permission to reprint her very excellent introduction to low-carbohydrate eating for people with diabetes. You can also view the original version on her Diabetes 101 website.

Jenny is a stickler for monitoring the effects of blood sugar. We might take some lessons from her experiences for improving management of people with metabolic syndrome or borderline blood sugars. In other words, monitoring the blood sugar-raising effects of various foods and food portions can provide great feedback on what foods are preferable, what undesirable, given your physiology.

Even if you are not a diabetic, Jenny's discussion is must reading to gain a better understanding of food choices, particularly carbohydrates. Along with seizing control of health, she has also gained deep wisdom in how to best manage this disease and its physiology.


Introduction to low-carb nutrition for diabetics

It's carbohydrates that raise blood sugar.

Sugars and starches, not the fats that dietitians have been warning you about for so long. If you've been testing your blood sugar after meals, you've probably noticed that already and you are starting to understand why a healthy diabetes diet will have to be one that limits carbohydrates to an amount that doesn't push your blood sugar up over the level where you are damaging your body.

But if your previous experience with restricting carbohydrates involved doing a weight loss diet like Atkins or Protein Power, which worked well for you until you crashed off it entirely and gained back all the weight you'd lost, you may be hesitant to embark on another course of dieting that requires some carb restriction.

I've been there myself. I've done the extremely low carb diet Dr. Richard Bernstein recommends for months on end. I did Protein Power for 3 years. And I've gone on the "Eat all the carbs you didn't eat over the past three years all at once" diet, too. The following observations grew out of my 8 years of experience with learning how to make carb restriction work long-term.

Unlike much of what you've read before, there are no scholarly references for this section. It's based entirely on my own observations and the experience of many dozens of people who have participated in online discussion groups devoted to low carb dieting and diabetes.


Weight Loss Diets Usually Fail but Diabetes Diets Can't Afford To Fail

People who adopt a low carb diet to lose weight tend to start out with great enthusiasm, adapt extreme dieting strategies, swear they will never eat another piece of bread or french fry for the rest of their lives, lose some weight, stall out, burn out, and slink back to their old diets, where they gain back all the weight they lost and more.

This is not a surprise. People on any diet, including low calorie and low fat, do the same thing. The body is very resistant to weight loss and deeply buried instincts in our brains do everything they can to maintain our weights, no matter how unhealthy they might be.

But while this pattern of dieting may be tolerable for those who are dieting to shed a few pounds before their class reunion, it spells disaster for those who must change their diet in order to prevent the high blood sugars that result in amputation, blindness, kidney failure and heart attack death.

Low carbing for diabetes means low carbing for life, long after the thrill has worn off of eating that runny brie and steak. Despite the hype in the diet books, it is not easy, simple, and fun. I know only a handful of people who have been able to sustain a low carb lifestyle for more than five years. And that is after years of online participation in low carb groups.

What you'll find below is what I've found works for me. I used a low carb diet to control my blood sugar for more than five years and have gone through the whole cycle, from enthusiasm, to boredom, to burnout, to saying "To hell with it, we've all got to die some time!" to starting all over again determined to avoid the mistakes that sent me round the bend the first time.


How Many Grams of Carbs to Eat? As Many as Allow You to Reach Your Blood Sugar Targets

When people think about adopting a lower carb diet, their first question is almost always, "How many grams of carbs can I eat at each meal?" Most of the diet books will answer that question with a hard and fast number. Atkins, for example, tells you to start out with 20 grams a day. Protein Power starts you at 30 grams. And Dr. Bernstein suggests 6 grams for breakfast and snacks and 12 grams at lunch and dinner.

Adopting these very low carbohydrate limits will control your blood sugar very nicely. But over time, many people find that sticking to a diet this low in carbohydrate becomes impossible. That's why I'm going to ask you to throw away all those diet books and try a new approach to restricting carbs.

What you will do is to try the strategy used by the people from the alt.support-diabetes newsgroup who informally call themselves "The 5% Club" because their A1c test results fall in the 5% range which doctors consider normal: use your blood sugar meter after each meal to determine how many grams of carbs you can eat and still meet a healthy blood sugar target.

You will start out by measuring your blood sugar one and two hours after each meal. Write down what you ate and observe what it did to your blood sugar. If a meal allows you to reach your blood sugar targets, try eating it again on a different day and test it test again, possibly at a later time, to make sure that your good numbers weren't just a result of slow digestion.

If you end up too high after a meal, the next time you eat it, cut back on the portion size of the carbohydrate elements in the meal and test again. Do this until you can hit your targets, or flag the carbohydrate-containing foods in that meal as ones your body can't handle.

What you're doing here is creating what newsgroup activist Alan S. calls, "a low spike diet" rather than a low carb diet. He can achieve normal post meal blood sugars by eating as many as 30 or 40 grams of carbohydrates at a meal. Others will find that they need to eat a lot less than that amount to hit safe post-meal blood sugar targets.

Usually how much carbohydrate you can manage has something to do with your body size. The more you weigh, the less each gram of carbohydrate you eat will raise your blood sugar. Those of us whose weight is less than 150 lbs often find that we can eat between 12 and 20 grams of carbohydrate and still reach normal blood sugar targets without the help of medications, and that we can add perhaps another 10 or 20 grams more, with medications. People who are much heavier can often eat 30 or 40 grams per meal and still reach their blood sugar targets. In general, men can eat more carbohydrates and still reach their targets than can women, again, because of their larger body size.


How to Learn How Much Carbohydrate is in Your Food

To make this system work, it helps if you start to learn how many grams of carbohydrate are in the foods you eat. That way you won't have to test hundreds of foods once you've learned how a representative sample affect you.

The best way to learn how many grams of carbohydrates are in the different foods you eat is to read food labels carefully, invest in a nutritional guide like one of Connie Netzer's books of nutritional information, download nutrition software like LifeForm (http://www.lifeform.com) or use online calculators like Fit Day (http://www.fitday.com). Software and online sites will compute the amount of carbohydrates and other nutrients in your meal for you as long as you know the portion size.


Learn about Portion Sizes!
This brings up an important point: When you estimate how many grams of carbohydrate there are in a portion of food, it is very important to find out if the amount of food on your plate corresponds to the amount in the "one serving" listed on a label, in a book, or in your software.

The best way to do this is to invest in an electronic food scale and to weigh your foods for a few weeks until you get the hang of estimating portion size. You can get a good food scale at a gourmet kitchen shop for $25 to $40 dollars. This food scale may be the best nutritional investment you'll ever make.

Once you start using your scale, you will find that the muffin you bought at the coffee shop weighs 8 ounces, which is fully four times the 2 ounces that most food databases give as "one serving" of a muffin. When you read that a mythical 2 ounce portion of muffin contains 27 grams of carbohydrate you will realize why that 8 ounce coffee shop muffin with its 108 grams of carbohydrates sends your blood sugar into the psycho zone!

With ice cream, when you weigh your ice cream on a food scale, you'll quickly see that the "one portion" listed on the package turns out to be only a few teaspoons' worth. That bowl you've been considering as one portion of ice cream weighs in as four servings or 72 grams of carbohydrate and 600 calories, which may explain its damaging effect on both your blood sugar and your waistline.

This may sound like a lot of work, and when you first start, it is. But after you do it for a few weeks you'll find you have memorized the carbohydrate gram counts and the portion sizes for the foods you usually eat, and once you have tested your blood after eating these portion sizes, you won't have to test every time you eat a favorite meal, because you will know what it is going to do to your blood sugar.


Eating Away from Home

The biggest challenge you'll encounter as you start learning what you can eat will be eating away from home. You aren't going to be able to weigh restaurant foods nor can you look up the nutritional values of many restaurant offerings--though many of the common fast food outlets do provide nutritional information online--though often without listing portion sizes.

That makes it a very good idea to avoid starchy or sugary restaurant foods or, if you do eat them, to eat only a small portion of what you are offered. Measure your blood sugar an hour or two hours after eating if you aren't sure about how a restaurant food will affect you.


Fat and Carbs Eaten Together will Digest Slowly

Foods with a lot of fat in them take longer to digest than those without a lot of fat. This is why pizza and ice cream often give deceptively good readings on your meter. If you test a meal and see a reading that is too good to be true, be sure you test at 3 or four hours after eating.


The Truth About Pasta

Pasta was long recommended to people with diabetes as a food that would not raise blood sugar and you will still see it starring in many cookbooks and magazines intended for people with diabetes.

However, if you test pasta 4 or 5 hours after eating, you may get an unpleasant surprise. This is true with the so-called "low carb" pastas, too. These foods give you excellent readings at one and two hours because they are resistant to digestion so they don't turn into glucose right away. But five hours later, they do break down into glucose and when they do, the 52 grams of carbohydrates found in each 2 ounce serving of pasta will hit your blood stream with a nasty wallop. (Not to mention that you almost need a microscope to see a 2 ounce portion of pasta. Most people's idea of a portion of pasta is closer to 6 ounces--and 156 grams of carbohydrate!)

If you have pasta for dinner and don't see a peak 3 hours later, be sure to check your fasting blood sugar the next morning. You may see the blood sugar rise there, too.


Sugar Alcohol and "Sugar Free" Foods

The sugar alcohol used in so-called "sugar free" foods can also show up in your blood sugar an hour or two after you'd expect to see them, especially the maltitol used in "sugar-free" candy. At least half of the sugar in Maltitol does turn into glucose in your blood stream and it can raise your blood sugar, but the rise is delayed so you may miss it on testing. So if a "sugar free" food seems to be kind to your blood sugar, try testing it an hour or two after your first tests. Erythritol is the one sugar alcohol that usually does not show up in your blood sugar.


Dealing with Limited Blood Testing Supplies

In in ideal world, we'd all have all the testing supplies we needed to control our blood sugar, but in real life blood sugar test strips are very expensive and many insurers sharply limit the number of strips people with Type 2 diabetes can get each month.

Here are some strategies that can help you if your access to strips is limited.

If you only have 50 strips to get you through a month, plan out what you are going to test ahead of time. Pick one of your favorite meals, and test at 1 hour after eating the first time you eat it and 2 hours after eating the second. Do this with a couple different meals and see if there's a pattern as to when you see the highest reading--whether it is at one hour or two. Then choose another meal and test it at the time when you saw the highest reading in the earlier meal. If you ever get a surprisingly low reading, try testing an hour later or earlier, to make sure you aren't missing the peak.

Make the goal of your testing be learning how many grams of carbs you can tolerate in one meal. If you learn that 30 grams is your upper limit, use software and your scale to find portions of other foods that will also clock in at 30 grams or less. Test one or two of these, and if you see the result you expect, you don't have to test every time you eat these foods again.

Wal-mart sells a cheap and effective blood sugar meter with strips that cost one half as much as other vendors. Some drug stores also sell store brand meters with cheaper strips. If you need more strips, consider the $50 you pay for another 100 strips an investment in your health. It's far better to spend that $50 now, than to spend it on expensive doctor bills caused by complications you don't need to develop!


Keep the focus on Achieving your Blood Sugar Goals

By testing after meals, you'll learn how many grams of carbohydrate your own, unique, body can handle. And more importantly, you'll also be able to decide if you are going to be able to control through diet alone, of whether it is time to talk to your doctor about supplementing dietary control with drugs.

Many people are so excited to learn that they can achieve normal blood sugars by cutting way back on carbohydrates that they become zealots for low carb dieting. I've been there and I've done that. But it's important not to get too carried away with a "Carbs are Evil" mentality which makes it a matter of religious zeal never to let evil carbs cross your lips again. Like all conversions this one tends to fade out in time. And as we said at the start of this chapter, your ultimate goal is to maintain your blood sugar targets for the rest of your life. So the safest approach is to get the most blood sugar benefit you can out of restricting carbohydrates, but restrict them to a level you can maintain year in and year out.

Most importantly, I have learned it is best to treat carb restriction as a strategy, one of many, which used in combination with other strategies including medications if needed, can give you normal blood sugars, rather than the One and Only True Way. If you can be flexible and find more than one tool to help you meet your blood sugar targets, you are more likely to be able to maintain those excellent blood sugars for years to come.


Eliminate "Habit Carbs" and Concentrate on "Value Carbs"
When people think about restricting their carb intake they assume this means never eating any of their favorite foods again.

But for many of us, this doesn't have to be true. Why? Because a quick look at your daily carb intake will often reveal that the bulk of the carbohydrates you are eating are what I call "habit carbs." These are the carbs you eat without a second thought because they are there. Not because they taste good. Not because you couldn't live without them. Just because you're in the habit of eating them.

Here is a list of some prime "habit carbs."

Steam table mashed potatoes

Limp french fries

Squashy hamburger buns

Cardboard toast

Cold home fries

Stale boxed cookies


How many of these flavorless, starchy foods are you consuming everyday just because they're there? Probably more than you realize. So before you lift that fork-full to your mouth, ask yourself, "Is this food thrilling me?" If not, put it down. This should go a long way towards getting your carb intake down.

What I'd call "value carbs" are those carb-rich foods that really do mean something to you. I'm not going to lie to you. You are not going to be able to make them the mainstays of your diabetes diet. But by using the strategies describe below, you should be able to eat enough of these foods to keep yourself from feeling deprived--without destroying your health.


Don't Create "Forbidden Foods!"

If you are one of those people who could live happily on Purina People Chow, you can skip what follows. But if food has been important to you, and if you have hitherto had a long and emotionally satisfying relationship with food, or if, like me, baking from scratch was one of your favorite ways to show love and express creativity, restricting your carbohydrate input will mean that a whole lot of what you've been eating (and baking) up until now is suddenly, completely, off limits. I can't eat cake and get a healthy blood sugar level. Even with two different diabetes drugs in my system. I can't eat cake even with an insulin shot before I eat it. I love cake but there is no way I can eat more than a bite or two without seeing very high blood sugars and there is no way I can eat two bites of cake and be happy. The same goes for french fries and Thai noodles.

During the first enthusiastic weeks of exploring carb restriction most people deal with this kind of discovery by coming up with new recipes and finding new, delicious and healthy things they can substitute for old, high carb standards. They appreciate the way cutting way back on carbohydrates curbs their hunger and makes food much more manageable. This is good and it is why long term low carbing is possible. But our old favorite foods do not go away that easily.

If you decide that some food you have been eating and enjoying all your life will never again cross your lips, it is almost 100% guaranteed that you'll end up pigging out on that very same food at some time in the future, hating yourself, and even beginning a binge that can throw you completely off your diet for months.

It might not happen the first month you are restricting your carb intake or even the first year. It took me three years of low carbing to get to where I crashed off my stringent low carb diet. But eventually it happens, and because after almost a decade of counting my carbs I've learned that I will never lose my love for certain foods that don't love me, I've put a lot of time into finding a way of restricting my carbohydrate intake in a way that avoids the buildup those feelings of deprivation that eventually lead to long periods of unwise eating.

The key, for me, is to build safety valves into my diet. I don't call them "cheats" or "bad foods" for reasons I'll get into later. I call them "off plan" foods because they are not food I can make an ongoing part of my daily food plan. Because my goal is life-long blood sugar control, I accept that I will occasional eat "off plan" and that this is okay as long as I am meeting my blood sugar targets most of the time. "Good enough" control that I can adhere to year in and year out beats a few months of perfection followed by crashing off the diet entirely and ruining my health. Here is one way to approach doing this:

Do the Diet Straight for a Month or Two Before You Try Off-Plan Goodies

As you learn what foods raise your blood sugar and what foods don't, you will almost certainly find that there are a lot of foods you used to love that don't work for you anymore. Waffles for breakfast, coffee cake at coffee break, three slices of pizza with crust, a burger with a bun and a side of fries are just a few of the foods that it is almost certain will not allow you to meet your post-meal blood sugar targets.

As you keep using your meter to test what you eat, if you are like most people with diabetes you'll also learn that some of the so-called "low glycemic" foods and the supposedly "healthy" whole grains that nutritionists recommend for people with diabetes won't work either. Oatmeal and whole wheat bagels raise my blood sugar far too high, so does cracked whole wheat, whole wheat bread, and brown rice.

If the dietician tells you a food is good for you, but your meter tells you it is raising your blood sugar to a level that is high enough to cause complications, you will have to listen to your meter. Your meter will tell you what is safe to eat and for the first couple of months while you are learning how to get your blood sugar under control and how bring those high blood sugars down to normal levels you will have to accept that you can only eat those foods that don't cause spikes.

If you attempt to add in off-plan foods before you are solidly on-plan you may never really get into the swing of eating a diet that controls your blood sugars and you may not get to where your body learns to enjoy the lower carb foods that don't give you blood sugar swings.

But after you've gotten your blood sugar under control, nothing horrible will happen if you make room for a small portion of some high carb treat every now and then.


How to Add Off-Plan Foods to the Plan

If you've avoided bread for a couple months, the humble roll in that restaurant bread basket may start to call out to you with an irresistible siren song. If you give in and eat it, with each bite you may find yourself feeling as if you are doing something incredibly sinful--the way you might have felt if you had eaten a whole box of chocolates in the past.

That feeling is the sign that you're heading for trouble. You've created a "forbidden fruit" and sooner or later that forbidden fruit is going to get you. You may find yourself thinking about that roll, craving another, sneaking off to eat one where nobody knows you, or, alternatively, you may declare that you will never again eat a roll ever--and then ruin your Thanksgiving holiday when you go to Aunt Glenda's and refuse to eat even a single one of those wonderful rolls of hers you've eaten every year of your life which say, "This is the family Thanksgiving" to you.

It is far better to make a bit of room in your diet for high carb treats so that they don't build up a charge. If you do this, you'll find that they almost never taste as good as you remembered, and you'll be able to leave them behind without turning them into an object of obsession.

Just knowing that you can eat some specific off-plan food at some future time, when it is scheduled, makes it that much easier to say, "No thanks" to it, and maintain your healthy blood sugar the rest of the time.


How Often Can You Eat Off-Plan?
How often you have an off-plan food depends a lot on your dietary goals, how high your blood sugar is before you eat carbs, and whether you are willing to exercise after eating. It also depends greatly on what medications you are taking for your diabetes. Whatever I eat, I try to keep my blood sugar below 120 mg/dl (6.7 mmol/l) at 2 hours after any meal.

Forty minutes of cardiovascular exercise will burn off a lot of extra carbs, so if you exercise regularly, try to eat your high carb treat before you head for the gym.

If you're trying to lose weight, you may have to keep off plan treats few and far between. When I was actively losing weight on a low carb diet without medications I ate one off-plan meal about once every two weeks.

Once I reached my weight loss goal I loosened up a bit but I found it best to cycle between weeks of eating a strict very low carb diet, and then a week of eating slightly more carbs--but I tried very hard not to ever anything that would cause my blood sugar to be over 120 mg/dl (6.7 mmol/L) at 2 hours after a meal because doing so makes me feel rotten.


Throw Away the Vocabulary of Self-Destructive Dieting

When you eat something with carbs in it, don't think of it as a "cheat." Cheating is what you do when faced with an authority figure--your 9th grade math teacher or the IRS. But you are the one in control of what you eat. So when you eat something that is off-plan, you should stop thinking of it as "getting away with something" and treat it instead as something you've decided to do--for a reason that should be clear to you while you do it.

If you keep eating things that were not what you had intended, rather than beating yourself up, it's time to reconsider your food plan and figure out why it isn't working. Are you having trouble finding foods in restaurants that don't raise your blood sugar? Maybe it's time to bring your lunch along to work for a while, or to find new place to dine.

Are you bored with what you have been eating? Google for good low carb recipes you can try at home. There are thousands of them. If you use the Google Groups search and look for messages in alt.support.diet.low-carb that start with "REC" you'll find a treasure trove of ideas to try.

Keep the vocabulary of sin and guilt for the confessional. You're going to eat a lot of things in the years to come that will mess up your blood sugar. But if you are kind to yourself and dust yourself off after you mess up and keep on going, doing the best you can to hit your blood sugar targets, you may very well end up healthier than many people who do not have diabetes. The important thing is to keep at it, doing the best you can and forgiving yourself when the best you can do isn't as good as you wish it was.


Know Your Limits
I've learned the hard way I can't eat half a blueberry muffin, so I don't even try portion control for that particular food. I know blueberry muffins are trouble and I also know that I will eventually eat one. That's just how it is, so every blue moon or so I eat a blueberry muffin, experience the miserable high blood sugars that follow, and then remember why I don't eat muffins every day any more. What I don't do is fool myself that I can buy a muffin and only eat half. Everyone has a few foods that fall into this category. Treat them with caution!


Eat Off-Plan Foods Out of the House
I've learned the hard way that if a big box of something full of carbs is in the fridge, bad things are going to happen. So I try to eat my off-plan foods away from home. I eat my muffins or cookies at a coffee house. I have a slice of pizza at a pizzeria. I don't buy a box of muffins or a whole pizza and bring them home.

Getting this strategy to work requires that your whole family understand what's at stake. It took me a couple years of harping on what "complications" means, but by now, my family understands that if my blood sugar is too high, I'm damaging my body. They want to keep me around for a while, so they understand that there are some foods that shouldn't be brought into the house--ever.

When other family members want to have treats at home, they are kind enough to buy things I don't like. For example, if someone wants Ben & Jerry's they buy the Chunky Monkey flavor that I find revolting, not the New York Fudge. By the same token, when my kids lived at home, I didn't buy them the brands of cookies I can't resist. There are plenty of others cookies they liked that don't tempt me at all, and those were the ones in the cupboard.

Over the years the nondiabetic members of my family learned that no one is doing themselves a favor scarfing down 300 grams of fast acting carbohydrate every day--particularly not people with a family history of diabetes and heart disease!


Medications Can Help

I'm not a big fan of medications because I've learned the hard way that drug companies lie about side effects and some of these side effects are permanent and can ruin your life. But I learned the hard way, too, that some of us (like, say me) can't get normal blood sugars no matter how low our carb intake. For us, adding a diabetic drug or two to our daily regimen may be the only way we can get normal blood sugars without a life of tormenting self-denial.

Drugs I have found useful over the years include metformin, precose, and post-meal insulin shots. The new incretin drugs, Januvia and Byetta help some people make dramatic improvements in their blood sugar, but the way that they work makes it necessary to eat a slightly higher amount of carbohydrates with them because they only work when your blood sugar rises over a certain threshold. Even with these drugs (including Januvia) I've never been able to eat more than 120 grams of carbohydrates a day, but after many years of eating an extremely low carb diet--which was the only diet that would control my blood sugars--120 grams of carbs a day feels like a completely normal diet!


Be Aware of Rising Insulin Resistance

Some people may find that eating a low carb diet is not enough to control their blood sugar because they are very insulin resistant. Perhaps they have been diagnosed with PCOS, or have to take a drug, like Prednisone that increases insulin resistance. The book, Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution by Dr. Richard K. Bernstein, the distinguished diabetes doctor, recommends Metformin as an appropriate drug for patients on a low carb diet whose blood sugars are still not completely controlled. It isn't a cure by any means, just one more tool you can use to keep blood sugars under control, and if you limit your insulin resistance you may solve both weight and hunger problems that otherwise can derail your diet.

You can read more about the different drugs available to help control blood sugars HERE. Just remember that all these diabetes drugs work best when you combine them with some level of carbohydrate restriction. How much restriction? Test your meals one and two hours after eating, and your blood sugar meter will tell you exactly how much.


Top Medical Journal Publishes Landmark Study Showing Very Low Carb Diet Most Effective and Safest for Lipids etc.

In case you are still being given out-of-date medical or nutritional advice by people who tell you that a low carb/high fat diet will give you a heart attack, take a look at this recently published study, which appeared in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

This study found that an Atkins style low carb diet not only caused double the weight loss of the low fat diet at the end of one year, but it did not adversely affect cholesterol levels.

This finding, added to the Women's Health Initiative finding (after $40 million dollars of research) that low fat dieting does NOT prevent heart disease, should lay to rest any last fears you might have about the impact of cutting carbs on your health.

The findings of this study, are not news to anyone who has tried a low carb diet and stuck with it for any period of time, but they appear to amaze the entire medical community who continue to cling to their to the "Fat is Bad" religious belief long no matter what evidenced-based medical studies might come up with.

Bottom line: You can cut your carbs way down, replace carbs with fat, and await the better health this kind of eating will provide.

Comparison of the Atkins, Zone, Ornish, and LEARN Diets for Change in Weight and Related Risk Factors Among Overweight Premenopausal Women: The A TO Z Weight Loss Study: A Randomized Trial.Christopher D. Gardner, PhD; Alexandre Kiazand, MD; Sofiya Alhassan, PhD; Soowon Kim, PhD; Randall S. Stafford, MD, PhD; Raymond R. Balise, PhD; Helena C. Kraemer, PhD; Abby C. King, PhD


Here's the summary of the WHI findings:

NIH News: News from the Women?s Health Initiative: Reducing Total Fat Intake May Have Small Effect on Risk of Breast Cancer, No Effect on Risk of Colorectal Cancer, Heart Disease, or Stroke


Here's a study that documents the effectiveness of lowering carbs and increasing fat and protein consumption for the control of blood sugar in the absense of weight loss:

Control of blood glucose in type 2 diabetes without weight loss by modification of diet composition. Nutrition & Metabolism 2006, 3:16.


To Get More Help with Making a Low Carbohydrate Diet Work

My "Low Carb Facts and Figures" site, which now shares this server, has more information I collected back in the days when I used a low carb diet for both weight loss and blood sugar control.

You'll find articles there that address a few of the issues people run into while eating a very low carb diet,which are not answered in a completely honest fashion by the people who sell diet books promising you can lose weight easily while gorging on all your favorite foods--which, sadly, is 99% of all authors writing diet books.

Interview with an outspoken advocate of truth in diabetes

I stumbled onto Jenny Ruhl's Diabetes Update blog after I received several very insightful comments to this blog whenever I posted a discussion on diabetes or pre-diabetes/metabolic syndrome.

Who the heck was this commenter who clearly had deep insight into diabetic issues?

It turned out to be Jenny Ruhl, a woman who learned her lessons the hard way: by receiving a belated diagnosis of (an unusual form of) diabetes, then receiving plenty of mis-guided advice from physicians on diet and treatment. Reading her many blog posts and websites, you get the clear sense of how hard this individual worked to gain the depth of knowledge she's acquired, on a par or superior to most diabetes specialists.

And she minces no words in expressing her heartfelt and carefully considered opinions. But that's what I look for: people who are unafraid to voice opinions that may not be consistent with the flow of conventional thought, but ring true and prove effective.


Dr. Davis: From your blog and websites on diabetes, it is clear that you exceptionally knowledgeable in the world of diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and related disorders. Can you give us a little background on how you came to this quest?

Jenny: Though I was told I was a "classic type 2" [diabetic] by my doctors, nothing I read about diabetes corresponded to my own experience. I knew my diabetes had not been caused by obesity because I'd been a normal weight all my life until my blood sugars went out of control at which point I developed ravenous hunger and gained a lot of weight very quickly.

I also wondered at the huge gap between what Dr. Bernstein said was a normal blood sugar and what my doctors told me was a safe blood sugar for a person with diabetes. The people I met who followed Bernstein's very low carb diet had much better blood sugars and far fewer complications, but my doctors dismissed this as irrelevant. So I decided to do some research to find out who to believe. I plunged into the medical journal articles that had recently been made available on the web to see if I could answer two questions: What causes diabetes? and "What does science actually know about what blood sugar levels damage organs?"

The result was the information that became the basis for the Blood Sugar 101 site. Initially, I attempted to sell it as a book, but editors told me that though what I'd learned was "fascinating" it would be "over the head" of the typical health book buyer who wanted simple explanations and if possible, a simplistic slant towards "cure." Fortunately, the very strong response and high traffic volume to the web site proved that, as I had thought, there are a lot of people who do want more than an oversimplified overview and who, given the information they needed, were able to make huge positive changes in their health.


Dr. Davis: What do you think your life would be like if you hadn't pursued this unique course?

Jenny: Possibly a lot shorter.

People in my family die of heart attacks in their 50s, probably from undiagnosed high blood sugars. The pattern of the type of diabetes I have is to have a normal fasting blood sugar and an extremely high post-meal blood sugar after consuming very few grams of carbohydrate. When doctors diagnose using only the fasting blood test, they miss those highs, which research is now finding to be a primary cause of heart disease.

I also would have been a lot fatter. My doctors told me that I was packing on 20 lbs a year due to "normal menopausal changes" and that there was nothing I could do about it. Lowering my carbs significantly dropped all the weight I had gained and I still weigh a lot less now than I did in 1998.


Dr. Davis: You've been a keen observer of the diabetes scene for some years. Have you discerned any important trends in both the public's perception of diabetes as well as how diabetes is managed in the conventional world?

Jenny: The huge difference I see is that, over the last decade, the online diabetes community has learned the value of cutting back on carbohydrates and shooting for truly normal blood sugar levels. So people who put some time into researching diabetes online and talking with those of us who have succeeded in avoiding complications will learn that they do not have to settle for very high blood sugars and deterioration their doctors think inevitable.

Unfortunately, the media have put most of their energy into promoting the discredited idea that diabetes is caused by gluttony and sloth and to promoting the equally discredited idea that people with diabetes should eat a high carbohydrate diet and avoid fat.

So for now there is a huge divide in the quality of life of those people with diabetes who educated enough to go out on the web and educate themselves and those who get their diabetes information from doctors. Sadly most doctors still encourage patients to eat low fat/ high carb diets, and counter the very high blood sugars this diet produces with oral drugs of questionable efficacy, while assuring patients they will be safe if they maintain blood sugar levels that meet the American Diabetes Association's recommendations, though a mass of research shows these are high enough to produce every single diabetic complication possible.


Dr. Davis: I understand that you've released a new book, Blood Sugar 101. How is your book unique in the world of diabetes books? Who should read Blood Sugar 101?

Jenny: Blood Sugar 101: What They Don't Tell You About Diabetes differs from other books in that it gives the reader a much deeper understanding of what is really going on in their bodies as their blood sugar control breaks down and what sciences knows about how abnormal blood sugars cause complications. Then it gives the reader the tools they need to find what diet and/or drug regimen will brings their own, unique, blood sugars down to a truly safe level.

Unlike some books, this one does not present a one-size-fits-all solution, but recognizes that Type 2 diabetes is really a catch-all diagnosis that covers a lot of disorders that behave quite differently. That is why what works for one person with diabetes may not work for another.

Because this book provides details available nowhere else about the physiology of diabetes and the drugs available to treat it, readers will find the information they need to work with their doctors to craft a regimen that brings their blood sugar into the range that preserves and improves their health.


Dr. Davis: Before we close, tell us a little about yourself outside of your diabetes advocate role.

Jenny: I live in rural New England and am a passionate gardener. I've been online since 1980 when I was part of the team at IBM that developed the first commercial email program, PROFS. I got involved in online discussion groups in 1987 and have been messaging on bulletin boards ever since.

I was a professional singer/songwriter in Nashville in my youth and spent my middle years as a bestselling author of books about consulting. Right now a lot of my energy goes into managing the financial and software side of a family business that makes hand made pocket tools for collectors.


Dr. Davis: Thank you for your great insights, Jenny!

The Marshall Protocol and other fairy tales

True to form, Dr. John Cannell has published yet another wonderfully insightful Vitamin D Newsletter.

One item caught my eye, a response to a question about the Marshall Protocol. I, like Dr. Cannell, was inundated with questions about this so-called protocol, which amounts to little more than the unfounded speculations of a non-physician, actually someone not even involved in health care.

In all honesty, I blew the whole issue off after I read Dr. Marshall's rants. They smack of pure quackery, though from somebody who clearly has a command of scientific lingo. To Dr. Cannell's credit, he took the time and effort to construct a rational response in the latest issue of the newsletter. I reproduce his response here:



Dear Dr. Cannell:

I understand Dr. Marshall conducted a study and found vitamin D is bad for you. What kind of study did he do?

Mary, Minneapolis, Minnesota


Dear Mary:

I have been inundated with letters asking about Professor Marshall's recent "discovery." Some have written that to say they have stopped their vitamin D and are going to avoid the sun in order to begin the "Marshall protocol." The immediate cause of this angst is two publications, a press article in Science Daily about Professor Marshall's "study" (which is no study but simply an opinion) in BioEssays. Dr. Trevor Marshall has two degrees, both in electrical engineering. Before I begin, I want to again remind you that I am a psychiatrist who works at a state mental hospital. In my duty to full disclosure, I must say that I have known a lot of psychiatrists in my life and a few electrical engineers. If I knew nothing else of a disagreement between two people but their professions, I would believe the electrical engineer, not the psychiatrist.

In reading his two articles, Dr. Marshall's main hypotheses are simple. (1) Vitamin D from sunlight is different than vitamin D from supplements. (2) Vitamin D is immunosuppressive and the low blood levels of vitamin D found in many chronic diseases are the result of the disease and not the cause. (3) Taking vitamin D will harm you, that is, vitamin D will make many diseases worse, not better. If you read his blog, you discover that the essence of the Marshall protocol is: "An angiotensin II receptor blocker medication, Benicar, is taken, and sunlight, bright lights and foods and supplements with vitamin D are diligently avoided. This enables the body's immune system, with the help of small doses of antibiotics, to destroy the intracellular bacteria. It can take approximately one to three years to destroy all the bacteria." That is, Dr. Marshall has his "patients" become very vitamin D deficient.

Again, Dr. Marshall conducted no experiment and published no study. He wrote an essay. He presented no evidence for his first hypothesis (sunlight's vitamin D is different than supplements). From all that we know, cholecalciferol is cholecalciferol, regardless if it is made in the skin or put in the mouth. His second hypothesis is certainly possible and that is why all scientists who do association studies warn readers that they don't know what is causing what. Certainly, when low levels of vitamin D are found in certain disease states, it is possible that the low levels are the result, and not the cause, of the disease. Take patients with severe dementia bedridden in a nursing home. At least some of their low 25(OH)D levels are likely the result of confinement and lack of outdoor activity. However, did dementia cause the low vitamin D levels or did low 25 (OH)D contribute to the dementia? One way to look at that question is to look at early dementia, before the patient is placed in a nursing home. On the first day an older patient walks into a neurology clinic, before being confined to a nursing home, what is the relationship between vitamin D levels and dementia? The answer is clear, the lower your 25(OH)D levels the worse your cognition.

Wilkins CH, Sheline YI, Roe CM, Birge SJ, Morris JC. Vitamin D deficiency is associated with low mood and worse cognitive performance in older adults. Am J Geriatr Psychiatry. 2006 Dec;14(12):1032-40.

Przybelski RJ, Binkley NC. Is vitamin D important for preserving cognition? A positive correlation of serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentration with cognitive function. Arch Biochem Biophys. 2007 Apr 15;460(2):202-5. Epub 2007 Jan 8.


These studies suggest that the low 25(OH)D levels are contributing to the dementia but do not prove it. Only a randomized controlled trial will definitively answer the question, a trial that has not been done. So you will have to decide if vitamin D is good for your brain or not. Dr. Marshall seems to be saying demented patients should lower their 25(OH)D levels. Keep in mind, an entire chapter in Feldman's textbook is devoted to the ill effects low vitamin D levels have on brain function.

Brachet P, et al. Vitamin D, a neuroactive hormone: from brain development to pathological disorders. In Feldman D., Pike JW, Glorieux FH, eds. Vitamin D. San Diego : Elsevier, 2005.

It is true that in some diseases, high doses of vitamin D may be harmful. For example, in the early part of last century, the AMA specifically excluded pulmonary TB from the list of TB infections that ultraviolet light helps. They did so because many of the early pioneers of solariums reported that acutely high doses of sunlight caused some patients with severe pulmonary TB to bleed to death. Thus, these pioneers developed very conservative sun exposure regimes for pulmonary TB patients in which small areas of the skin were progressively exposed to longer and longer periods of sunlight. Using this method, sunlight helped pulmonary TB, often to the point of a cure. Furthermore, it is well known that sunlight can cause high blood calcium in patients with sarcoidosis. In fact, sarcoidosis is one of several granulomatous diseases with vitamin D hypersensitivity where the body loses its ability to regulate activated vitamin D production, causing hypercalcemia.

Cronin CC, et al. Precipitation of hypercalcaemia in sarcoidosis by foreign sun holidays: report of four cases. Postgrad Med J. 1990 Apr;66(774):307-9.

Furthermore, although medical science is not yet convinced, some common autoimmune diseases may have an infectious etiology. I recently spoke at length with a rheumatologist who suffers from swollen and painful joints whenever he sunbathes or takes high doses of vitamin D. As long as he limits his vitamin D input his joints are better. To the extent vitamin D upregulates naturally occurring antibiotics of innate immunity, sunlight or vitamin D supplements may cause the battlefield (the joints) to become hot spots. I know of no evidence this is the case but it is certainly possible.

However, If Dr. Marshall's principal hypothesis is correct, that low vitamin D levels are the result of disease, then he is saying that cancer causes low vitamin D levels, not the other way around. The problem is that Professor Joanne Lappe directly disproved that theory in a randomized controlled trial when she found that baseline vitamin D levels were strong and independent predictors of who would get cancer in the future. The lower your levels, the higher the risk. Furthermore, increasing baseline levels from 31 to 38 ng/ml reduced incident cancers by more than 60% over a four year period. Therefore, advising patients to become vitamin D deficient, as the Marshall protocol clearly does, will cause some patients to die from cancer.

Lappe JM, Travers-Gustafson D, Davies KM, Recker RR, Heaney RP. Vitamin D and calcium supplementation reduces cancer risk: results of a randomized trial. Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Jun;85(6):1586-91.

I will not write again about Dr. Marshall's theories. No one in the vitamin D field takes him seriously. Personally, I admire anyone willing to swim against the tide and raise alternative theories. I have done the same with influenza and autism. However, I agree with the New York Times, An Oldie Vies for Nutrient of the Decade and Jane Brody's conclusion, "In the end, you will have to decide for yourself how much of this vital nutrient to consume each and every day and how to obtain it." I agree. You will have to decide for yourself.

John Cannell, MD
The Vitamin D Council

Breaking news from the American College of Cardiology meetings

The American Heart Association (AHA) was kind enough to send me an e-mail headlining the breaking news from the American College of Cardiology (ACC) meetings underway in Chicago:


ISAR-REACT 3
A Randomized, Double-Blind, Active-Controlled, Multi-Center Trial (ISAR-REACT 3) of Bivalirudin Versus Unfractionated Heparin in Troponin-Negative Patients Undergoing Percutaneous Coronary Interventions After Pre-Treatment With 600 mg of Clopidogrel

TRITON - TIMI 38 Stent Analysis
Prasugrel Compared to Clopidogrel in Patients With Acute Coronary Syndromes Undergoing PCI With Stenting: The TRITON - TIMI 38 Stent Analysis

Percutaneous Coronary Interventions in Facilities without On-Site Cardiac Surgery (NCDR)

(And four other similar reports)


Let's meld the ACC headlines with the financial headlines:

July 2, 2007
The Medicines Company announces reacquisition of all marketing rights to bivalirudin, anticoagulant growing in use for coronary angioplasty and related procedures. 2008 sales anticipated to be in the $15-20 million range, to grow to $90-110 million, a growth rate of 50% per year.


November 20, 2007
Drug manufacturing giant, Eli Lilly, vies for a portion of the $5 billion (annual revenues) oral anti-platelet market, now occupied by Plavix, with its newer, but questionably better, agent, prasugrel.


Growth of the coronary angioplasty (percutaneous coronary intervention, or PCI) doesn't ordinarily make headlines, but the performance of specific companies within the industry does. Angioplasty and cardiac device maker (inc. the drug-coated stent, Taxus), Boston Scientific, for instance, announced record sales of $8.537 billion for 2007, an increase of $536 million. How to grow this market? We could always hope for more people with heart attacks or other unstable symptoms. Or, we could . . . increase the number of hospitals capable of PCI! Brilliant.


The money behind this push for procedures is staggering. It drives enormous marketing efforts, pays Washington lobbyists, pays for many nice dinners and trips for doctors who engage in the system, and pays for very costly research.

And the AHA and ACC are kind enough to let us know about these great pieces of news.
The nattokinase scam

The nattokinase scam

A conversation about vitamin K2 commonly leads to confusion. Several people have asked about something called nattokinase.

The scientific data on the potential role of vitamin K2 deficiency in causing both osteoporosis and vascular calcification is fascinating. Along with vitamin D3, vitamin K2 may be an important factor in regulation of calcium metabolism. Supplementation may prove to be a major strategy for inhibition of vascular calcification.

Obtaining K2 in the diet is tricky, since it's present in just a handful of foods: egg yolks, liver, traditional cheeses, and natto. This is where the confusion starts.

Natto is a Japanese fermented soy product. I've had it and it's quite disgusting. Nonetheless, Japanese who eat natto experience less fracture. (A parallel study in heart disease has not been performed.) Natto is also a source of another substance called nattokinase.

Advocates (otherwise often known as supplement distributors) claim that nattokinase is a "fibrinolytic", or blood clot-dissolving, preparation that "improves blood flow, protects from blood clots, and prevents heart attacks and strokes."

Don't you believe it. This is patent nonsense. There are several problems with this rationale:

--Any oral fibrinolytic agent is promptly degraded in the highly acid environment of the stomach. That's why all medically used fibrinolytics are given intravenously. Drug companies have struggled for years to encapsulate, modify, or somehow protect protein (or polypeptide) products taken orally from degrading this way. They've never succeeded. That's why, for instance, growth hormone (a polypeptide) remains an injection, not an oral agent. An oral growth hormone, by the way, would sell like mad, so the drug companies would very much like to figure out how to bypass the degradative effects of stomach acid. One of the "researchers" behind the nattokinase claims boasts that he has single-handedly figured out how to protect the nattokinase molecule in the gastrointestinal tract. However, he won't tell anybody how he does it. Right.

--Fibrinolytic agents are extremely dangerous. In years past, we used to treat heart attacks with intravenous fibrinolytic agents like tissue plasminogen activator, urokinase, streptokinase, and others. They have fallen by the wayside, for the most part, because of limited effectiveness and the unavoidable dangers of their use. Fibrinolytics are "dumb": they dissolve blood clots in both good places and bad. While they might dissolve the blood clot causing your heart attack, they also degrade the tiny clot in your cerebral (brain) circulation that was protective. That's why fatal brain hemorrhages, bleeding stomach ulcers, and blood oozing from strange places can also occur with fibrinolytic administration. Believe me, I've seen it happen, and I've watched people die from them.

The idea that a small dose taken orally is healthy is ridiculous. Even if nattokinase worked, why the heck would you take an agent that has known dangerous and very real consequences?

Don't let this idiocy reflect poorly on the K2 conversation, which, I believe, holds real merit and is backed by legitimate science. This is symptomatic of a larger difficulty with the supplement industry: Insane and unfounded claims about one supplement erodes credibility for the entire industry. It gives regulation-crazed people like the FDA ammunition to go after supplements, something none of us need. You and I have to sift through the nonsense to uncover the real gems in this rockpile, real gems like vitamin D3, omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil, and, perhaps, vitamin K2. But not nattokinase.

Comments (179) -

  • Anonymous

    6/2/2007 6:49:00 PM |

    Before you dismiss Nattokinase, please check out research done by Hiroyuki Sumi from 1987 (original discovery) and 1990, and subsequent research on how the compound has an effect on plasmin and other clot-dissolving agents.

  • Dr. Davis

    6/2/2007 10:12:00 PM |

    I have read his research. I stand by my opinion: Nattokinase is a scam. It is an utterly ridiculous notion that anyone should take oral thrombolytic agents to "prevent blood clots". Thrombolysis is a dangerous strategy, even if it worked in humans by the oral route. An agent that, if it worked, poses serious potential for severe side effects and death needs to be tested thoroughly first. It is plain idiocy to use this agent. It is not fish  oil, it is not a vitamin, it is something entirely different that has no basis for use as a preventive. You're throwing your money away.

  • Anonymous

    9/2/2007 5:33:00 AM |

    I actually don't find natto disgusting at all -- I think I am one of the few non-Japanese who like it.  I didn't realize it was so healthy for you.  Should I consciously add it to my diet?

  • Dr. Davis

    9/2/2007 1:29:00 PM |

    No kidding?

    Natto is an abundant source of vitamin K2, which may have a role in regulating calcium metabolism. Although not as crucial as vit D3, K2 is emerging as a potential addition to our program. See our full Special Report on vitamin K2 on the www.trackyourplaque.com website.

  • Anonymous

    12/18/2007 11:07:00 PM |

    "Fibrinolytics are "dumb": they dissolve blood clots in both good places and bad."

    That's true of anything taken orally, and is not much of a criticism. And there is little difference in risk between fish oils or aspirin, and typical nattokinase intakes. So the only point you're making that makes any sense to me is that nattokinase does not survive stomach acidity, but that is contradicted by studies where nattokinase taken orally did have an effect.

  • Anonymous

    12/19/2007 6:04:00 AM |

    "I believe you are failing to appreciate what fibrinolytics accomplish if they were truly being absorbed through the stomach: They are deadly. You have to be nuts to take an agent like this chronically if it worked."

    Problem is that it's even nuttier to be taking warfarin chronically, considering it's _known_ interaction with vitamin K - but that's exactly what is currently pushed. See www.vitamink2.org for discussion of the evils of warfarin - the surest route to osteoporosis and blood vessel calcification.

    Personally, I take K2-7, fish oil, etc., but am open to the idea that nattokinase may be able to offset the decline in plasmin production that occurs with age. Of course, it would be best if we had a (convenient) blood value to monitor to check dosage (something as simple as a blood glucose or INR meter). Certainly more research is needed.

    If not nattokinase, then how do you suggest that we address the increased risk of clotting with age? And how should the amounts of these alternatives be adapted to individual differences? (As exemplified by the issue of how much fish oil to consume.)

  • Dr. Davis

    12/19/2007 1:32:00 PM |

    I agree with you on the vitmamin K2 issue and certainly with omega-3. However, the whole lytic issue is truly nutty. Lytics are destructive. While warfarin (I'm no fan, either, and I put all interested warfarin-taking patients on K1 and K2 supplements if the warfarin can't be avoided, e.g., chronic pulmonary emboli, left ventricular thrombi, prosthetic heart valve--these people have no choice) prevents propagation of blood clot, it is NOT a blood clot dissolver. Lytic agents ARE. In other words, the little protective blood clot in the tiny defect in your middle cerebral artery that would have healed itself without consequence becomes a cerebral bleed. I know--I've seen it happen several times in the "old days" when lytics were popular. It even happens with the smaller doses used for localized clot dissolution introduced via specific delivery into the thrombus.

    Unfortunately, I don't have an answer on how to manage the acquired disorder of blood coagulation that accompanies aging. However, omega-3s are a big part of the solution.

  • Anonymous

    12/19/2007 2:49:00 PM |

    For the record, here's a summary of the argument for nattokinase, as promoted by Holsworth. If all of this turns out to be true, would you still be against use of nattokinase?

    Dr. Holsworth describes the actions of nattokinase as “Nurturing Nature”. The most therapeutic perspective property of NK is the indirect effect.
    1) inhibits PAI-1 (plasminogen activation inhibitor-1)
    2) upregulates individual’s own tissue plasminogen activator (tPA) anti-clotting mechanism
    3) converts endogenous pro-urokinase to urokinase
    4) has small anti-platelet activity – similar to garlic or onions
    Lyses cross-linked or dysfunctional fibrin. NK is 6 times more efficient than our own plasmin, but does not compete with cleavage of fibrinogen, so doesn’t attack anything that isn’t dysfunctional. Fibrin is the single-most causative agent that makes blood thick.
    -No direct tPA activity – no direct competition in clotting
    -No degradation of albumin by NK
    -Said to act like an Angiotensin Converting Enzyme inhibitor ACEi). Keeps angiotensin II down and in rat studies, thins the neo-intimal layer of inflamed blood vessels. He is not impressed with the clinical studies suggesting the ACEi effect; but clinically, it works as an anti-hypertensive medicine . He does find that people on antihypertensives decrease the amount of high blood pressure medication or eliminate them all together in 7 – 14 days.
    Dr Holsworth cautions that individuals on high blood pressure medicines, closely monitor their blood pressure and notify their primary care physician about any lowering of their blood pressure.
    Dr. Holsworth has seen significant decreases of 10-20 points of systolic and diastolic blood pressures within 7 days of starting nattokinase.
    -Linked to circadian rhythm. PAI-1 inhibits the ability to create plasmin. Clots occur early in the a.m. predominantly and, therefore, increase the stroke or heart attack incidence.
    Breaking down existing clots…
    NK has only slight or limited Pac Man capabilities to “eat away” directlyat existing clots, but rather “nurtures nature” by enhancing our own endogenous pro-fibrinolytic system. Small direct effect of less than 10% efficacy similar to plasmin where it works directly on a clot – Pac Man style. It will not break loose a clot.

    What is an ideal thyrombolyic agent?
    • Rapid – NK is effective within 4 hours PO (oral) administration and has significant fibrinolytic activity in blood vs. tPA which has that 3-hour grace period to initiate…so there is only one hour differential in ischemia situation. Additionally, tPA has short duration of effectiveness and must be taken intravenously..
    • Duration – maintain patency of vasculature – no early reclusions.
    • Sustained duration of action - half-life of NK is 8 – 12 hours. After tPA administration, patients are at an increased risk for the next 14 – 48 hours where patients are susceptible and have an increased thrombophilic state secondary to tPA IV (as in rebound effect).
    • Specific - no shotgun effect of cleaving any and all fibrin in the body… Specific or targeted…that’s what NK does with cross-linked fibrin.
    • Thrombosis–specific…doesn’t adversely affect coagulation factors or the coagulation cascade
    • Upregulates body’s own plasminogen system.
    • Low risk of hemorrhage - isolated cases of epistaxis (nose bleeds) – compounded by 4 – 5 other anti-platelet agents…garlic ginkgo, fish oil. Reduce intake.
    • Absence of systemic side effects.
    • Caution – if on antihypertensives, check blood pressure in 7 – 10 days. NK can quickly correct the body’s Hemorheology. Blood pressure medicines may have to be titrated down so individual is not over-medicated or discontinue use.
    • -Low cost
    • Per oral (P.O.) convenience (as opposed to IV).

  • Anonymous

    12/22/2007 3:24:00 PM |

    I should have mentioned that the above Holsworth summary is from Jackie on the www.afibbers.net forum.

    I guess I'm also interested in what Dr. Davis has to say about the use of nattokinase to treat fibroids, as exemplified by Fibrovan (www.fibrovan.com). Are all the testimonies faked? Or will all the patients soon die of some sort of internal bleeding?

  • Dr. Davis

    12/23/2007 12:31:00 AM |

    The data I've looked at re: nattokinase has been proprietary, generated clearly by a manufacturer. Until some real science emerges, even modest, to support this otherwise counterintuitive strategy, it remains something that has no value for our plaque reducing focus. The disease is not thrombus or clot; the disease is atherosclerosis. Clot develops when heart attack occurs. It makes no sense to take a lytic agent that dissolves clotes continuously. Unless I am missing something here, nattokinase remains squarely in the nonsense column.

  • Anonymous

    2/24/2008 2:38:00 PM |

    My wife has enometriosis with disabling pain and the treaments that the doctors have been giving seems to only make it wrose. I found aFibrovan on the internet stating that it would reduce the symptoms within in weeks with no side effects.

    Is this fibrovan similar to the scams in which you speak or does it have merit for endo an treatment?

  • Anonymous

    3/2/2008 2:33:00 PM |

    Thank you Dr. Davis for your comments re:  nattokinase.  As you know, the testimonials (at the product sites) are pretty amazing.  As my holistic MD is suggesting UFE or myomectomy, I'm thinking about trying one of the fibrovan, neprinol "fibroid dissolvers"!  I'm also taking codliver oil, turmeric and a pile of herbs to support liver function.  are all those testimonials lies?  maybe if we had an economic system based on love and caring instead of profit, we wouldn't be asking this question.  thank you again for your knowledge and care-it's clear that you do. lynn

  • Anonymous

    3/9/2008 12:18:00 AM |

    I don't have a heart problem.  I have had debilitating muculoskeletal pain for over 8 years.  Last week Friday, 3/7/08, I began taking a large dose of nattokinase.  Results were evident in fewer than 4 hours and continue today, 8 days later.  I am able to function without my usual pain medication and the adhesions and hypertone in my muscle tissue continue to decrease daily.  Do you have any ideas why?

    Thanks.

  • Anonymous

    3/19/2008 3:24:00 PM |

    I have spoken with my doctor who states that NK is being used currently in Germany to treat DVT's, clots, etc., and two of her heart patients also take it, one for over two years now (from Germany himself) and another woman for the past six months, both have improved health.  I also have many friends who have used NK to dissolve their DVT's who no issues what so ever, and with doctors involvement watching the progress.  Why is none of this ever talked about?  I haven't heard one report of a person dying from NK.  SH

  • Rett

    4/15/2008 3:31:00 PM |

    I an interested to know why you think, that if nattokinase were dangerous in that it may dissolve clots too quickly or inappropriately, how come users of natto do not report excessive bruising?

  • Anonymous

    4/17/2008 8:04:00 PM |

    As if conventional medicine is so great.  The United States spends more on health care than any other nation, yet as a recent study revealed we are dead last in outcomes.  I went to FIVE (5) physicians (PCP, ortho, GYN, etc.) over a 3.5-month period with left leg pain and swelling, and stated several times with these symptoms and the fact I'm on estrogen I think this is a DVT.  Response?  "Oh, no that's normal as we age.  Our veins become less efficient" (oh, please...what a crock)  The sixth physician, a pulmonologist, ordered an ultrasound that revealed an extensive proximal DVT.  If conventional medicine is so charming, please explain to me why it is so d*** incompetent.  A friend of mine went for a mammogram.  "We see something suspicious."  Pathology after biopsy-indeterminate x3, then "you've got lymphoma".  An oncologist was wanting to start chemo right away.  A PET scan and numerous labs were all NORMAL!!!  No cancer.  How pathetic.  How many people are receiving chemotherapy who never had cancer in the first place?  Perhaps Dr. Davis you need to open your mind!!  Most sincerely!

  • Anonymous

    4/18/2008 1:33:00 PM |

    I started taking Nattokinase for a DVT.  I was initially taking 2,000 FU per day then bumped it to 6,000.  Recent labs and ultrasound show IT IS WORKING!!  Fibrin degradation products are high and the ultrasound shows a resolving clot just weeks after diagnosis.  (Natto was started in the past 3 weeks; the higher dose within the last week.)  We've been using rat poison (Coumadin) since the early 1950s.  The hair thinning/loss, bloating, headache, etc. that accompanies Coumadin are known side effects though most doctors will tell patients they are not.  Are we to believe that in 60 years we can't come up with anything better to offer than Coumadin?  Studies have undeniably shown that after one year of "treatment" with Coumadin, more than 24 percent of people STILL HAVE residual clot.  Coumadin, of course, does not dissolve clots.  It only prevents new ones from forming and impacts the clotting cascade to enable the body to absorb the clot.  Nattokinase is a viable, effective alternative.  The real reason it is not studied in America is because it is a naturally-occurring substance that cannot be patented,i.e., no drug company can profit.  The Japanese people are the healthiest people on the face of the earth.  How thoughtful of Japan Air Lines to include natto in their snacks on their LONG-HAUL flights.  Obviously, they are proactive in their healthcare and attempts to prevent clots.  Just as American medical practitioners laugh at Nattokinase, I recall a time when we laughed at those cars called Toyotas.  No one is laughing now at the quality and high integrity of this company.  Now as then, perhaps we should stop criticizing and start emulating.

  • Anonymous

    4/18/2008 1:37:00 PM |

    Dr. Davis-you should be upfront about the fact that Coumadin is one of the top 10 reasons for emergency room visits in the United States.

  • Anonymous

    6/21/2008 2:39:00 AM |

    I like the saying "If all you have is a hammer, everyting you see is a nail".  I have seen many doctors on various occasions, lost a tooth because the dentist only had a hammer.  Now I have s second tooth that feels funny, and it will not be treated by a dentist.

    I started taking nattokinase a few days ago, 5000FU per pill once a day.  I do feel something different happening, but can't quite put my finger on it.  But it's not a feeling of being better.  As of now, I am feeling a bit numbness in both arms, and a location between the shoulder blades hurts a bit and changes in area now and then.

  • Dr. William Davis

    7/8/2008 3:47:00 AM |

    Looking back over these posts accumulating over the past several months, I note that some readers have interpreted my criticisms of the junk science behind nattokinase as an indirect endorsement of warfarin.

    That is plain wrong.

    I criticize nattokinase for making extravagant claims with virtually no real data in humans. If fibrinolysis truly developed with nattokinase, we would expect several deaths for every 100 people who take it, because that is the experience with any agent causing lysis of clots.

    If I advocate anything, it is truth. Be aware that, whether it's a drug manufacturer, a food manufacturer, or a supplement manufacturer, they are willing takers of your money.

    There are truly effective, powerful supplements out there. Nattokinase is not one of them.

  • Oswald

    7/12/2008 3:04:00 PM |

    This is an interesting debate on a couple of levels:

    (1) The assertion that "all" fibrolytic substances are broken down by the stomach environment. That should be all *known* substances. Just because you have always seen only white swans doesn't mean there aren't any black swans (see the philosopher Karl Popper to learn about being a real scientist).

    (2) Anecdotal evidence from myself. I try to be objective. I can't say anything about the anticoagulant effects of Nattokinase, but so far as I can tell it has some anti-inflammatory effect. I have monitored this in my own health.

    Of course we all need to proceed carefully when new substances are touted as having fabulous effects.
    Snake oil is ever present. We should also remember that most Doctors are not trained to be scientists, they seldom understand how science should proceed. So very often they retreat into dogma and blanket assertions. It wasn't so long ago that saying stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria would have caused a Doctor to be derided as a fool. Science and knowledge proceeds by conjecture and refutation, and while we do have to be careful of Snake oil, we also have to be aware that accepted dogma is often wrong.

  • Anonymous

    8/4/2008 6:07:00 AM |

    "If fibrinolysis truly developed with nattokinase, we would expect several deaths for every 100 people who take it, because that is the experience with any agent causing lysis of clots." - Dr. Davis

    Makes perfect sense, that as a oral thrombolytic agent, nattokinase very likely is a "scam."

    But, nattokinase's efficacy as an oral anticoagulant is not out of the question by the limited empirical evidence that exists.  Nattokinase begs to be studied in that regard, and should be before being totally declared a "scam."

    Would not nattokinase qualify as an important part of the TYP protocol if it does indeed prove to be an effective alternative for all thoughs people taking warfarin?

  • Gene

    8/22/2008 8:50:00 PM |

    I take it you disapprove of NK.
    Thank you for your insights.  It may or may not be that your paradigm colored your opinion, as it does with all of us, I suppose.  
    NK is an over-the-counter substance and, if taken on its face value, according to your analysis, it should be removed from the stores, as it is monkeying with primal forces.
    Therefore, either someone is asleep at the switch or the risk is not as purported (the risk of being ripped off is another department.)
    I think the scientific method is over-used as a sword and shield, yet doctors rely on their own experience all the time, even disagreeing with reports. My view there is no report not telling me to not eat wood screws.
    More real information is needed, but the drug companies, unlike what is suggested, will not be happy to find a cheap, generic solution to anything. though the president may use the solution. It is just the way reality has been organized.
    What is needed is a useful government, but we all know that is a wasted thought.
    Foreign research should not be put aside, not because to do so is some sort of racism, but because it may be balanced.
    Clearly, NK does something. We can't just throw our hands up and deny anecdotal experience, often quoted by intrigued doctors, and call people nuts. That may be sort of true, but it is a meaningless as blatant advocacy. Thus, we must wait and look for research, probably out of Japan.
    In the meantime, natto is OK if you add cinnamon. Forget that soy stuff.  Do this, and it is anti-inflammatory, too.
    Me, I am a fan of Serrapeptase and have not found much to dissuade me.

  • Anonymous

    9/8/2008 6:31:00 PM |

    Hello Dr. Davis

    While your credentials speak for themselves, I would submit that you simply do not have the nutritional background to support many of your claims re: Nattokinase. I base this on the typical Medical curriculum that includes on average a whopping equivalent of a weekend course at best... I suggest you look at the coagulation pathways that Nattokinase acts within and then you might be entitled to having an opinion that comes from reality and not your personal dogma.

  • Ryan W.

    10/5/2008 8:02:00 AM |

    Another fibrinolytic enzyme, serrapeptase, (which is also a serine protease) which is larger than nattokinase and also absorbed by the gut (if coated to pass through the stomach) is capable of breaking up bacterial biofilms, enhancing the effectiveness of antibiotics, and removing persistent bacterial infections.

    Serrapeptase is also used commonly as a painkiller and anti-inflammatory in Germany with no marked ill effects. The fact that it has fibrinolytic activity, is absorbed gastrointestinaly and still is safe makes me question your catagorical statements about nattokinase.

    I don't suppose you can cite any peer reviewed in vitro research that actually supports your view?

    The safety of natto aside for a moment, personally what I wonder is whether Natto's beneficial effects are from nattokinase or from a different serine protease found in natto.

    ----
    Because the control of the invasion of host cells by Listeria could potentially hinder its spread in the infected host, we have examined the effects of a protease treatment on the ability of L. monocytogenes to form biofilms and to invade tissues. We have chosen serratiopeptidase (SPEP), an extracellular metalloprotease produced by Serratia marcescens that is already widely used as an anti-inflammatory agent, and has been shown to modulate adhesin expression and to induce antibiotic sensitivity in other bacteria. Treatment of L. monocytogenes with sublethal concentrations of SPEP reduced their ability to form biofilms and to invade host cells.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18479885?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

    CONCLUSIONS: Serratiopeptidase was effective for eradicating infection caused by biofilm-forming bacteria in this experimental animal model. The antibiofilm property of the enzyme may enhance antibiotic efficacy in the treatment of staphylococcal infections.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16757752?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

    Among the different mechanisms of bacterial resistance to antimicrobial agents that have been studied, biofilm formation is one of the most widespread. This mechanism is frequently the cause of failure in the treatment of prosthetic device infections, and several attempts have been made to develop molecules and protocols that are able to inhibit biofilm-embedded bacteria. We present data suggesting the possibility that proteolytic enzymes could significantly enhance the activities of antibiotics against biofilms. Antibiotic susceptibility tests on both planktonic and sessile cultures, studies on the dynamics of colonization of 10 biofilm-forming isolates, and then bioluminescence and scanning electron microscopy under seven different experimental conditions showed that serratiopeptidase greatly enhances the activity of ofloxacin on sessile cultures and can inhibit biofilm formation.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8109925?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum


    These results indicated QK-1 was a plasmin-like serine protease and QK-2 a subtilisin family serine protease.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14984705?ordinalpos=13&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

  • Dan

    10/8/2008 2:45:00 PM |

    "I don't have a heart problem. I have had debilitating muculoskeletal pain for over 8 years. Last week Friday, 3/7/08, I began taking a large dose of nattokinase. Results were evident in fewer than 4 hours and continue today, 8 days later. I am able to function without my usual pain medication and the adhesions and hypertone in my muscle tissue continue to decrease daily. Do you have any ideas why?"

    Dr. Davis,

    I have been taking NK since I wrote the quote, above.  In the past 6 months I have continued to experience improvement in my condition.

    I am a massage therapist, having worked on 1000's of clients, many with similar, but less severe, symptoms as mine.  I have never seen, nor experienced such a dramatic improvement in tissue health except with one client who began treatment with quinolin(many years ago), an anomoly to me at that time.

    I was a mechanical engineer, before head injury led to my physical dysfunction.  It is common, in every field of knowledge, for us to limit our options for problem solutions due to unfounded beliefs, often out of convenience, fear or ignorance.

    NK has allowed me to end my slow slide into physical pain and oblivion after more than 8 years of extensive, and intensive treatment(s) that had only succeeded in slowing my slide.  It has allowed me to return to massage practice, part time, to begin reconnecting with my family after years of isolation, and has given me reason to think that a return to engineering practice may one day be possible, too.

    That is a big claim, I realize, but it represents a careful evaluation of objective evidence of the beneficial action of NK in the human body, something I haven't found anywhere, to date. I don't know what makes NK work, but for people with hardened myofacsia, it improves their response to therapy, resulting in reduced pain and improved function in a much shorter time than is typical.  It's effects are obvious to palpation in less than 4hours.

    You have reason to question NK for lack of solid evidence. I don't expect my claim to change your position.  But I can tell you that my claim is solidly objective, the results are more repeatable than most medical claims, rising very near the level of empirical certainty.

    I hope this discussion leads others to unexpected solutions, as it has me.

  • Anonymous

    10/14/2008 5:59:00 PM |

    What the good Doctor unfortunately overlooks, is that most serious Nattokinase supplements are enteric coated tablets, and quite easily pass the acid barrier of the stomach, he also fails to mention that not all of Nattokinase, even in a non enteric protected form, is destroyed by stomach acid. For example , a diet rich in Natto, isn't suffering 100% lost to stomach acid, but rather a mere percentage, as with most any strict exclusive diet of one particular thing.

  • rudy

    11/19/2008 8:43:00 PM |

    i am taking natto 100mg primarily to make blood harder to clot, i have observed three things; 1) it is pretty potent, even with 100mg (2000FU), i had a bleeding in the gum is harder to clot, 2) my blood pressure have dropped about 8 points both high and low side, 3) like DAN, my myfascial pain is lessen ever since taking natto, at first i thought it was because of MSM, but actually it was natto that reduced my pain

    however, my father died from cerebal bleeding after he was given thrombolytic in ER for his heart attack, so i certainly do appreciate Dr.Davis point of view that sometimes clots are useful, and if you overdo it and use too much anticongulate agent (such as natto) it may have negative side effects one has to be careful

  • Anonymous

    12/3/2008 11:05:00 AM |

    By calling Nattokinase a "scam", one implies that current medical treatment is superior or less dangerous.  It encourages people on Coumadin to continue this dangerous drug, which has led to untold morbidity and mortality--and we won't go into the manufacturing debacles from China.  We really should not be comparing Coumadin/Warfarin (a product of the laboratory) with Nattokinase.  Coumadin and Warfarin do NOT dissolve blood clots. They simply prevent them from enlarging/prevent new clots, while the clots (hopefully) stabilize and do not embolize.  After stabilization of a clot against the vessel wall, one must exercise to increase plasmin in the blood in order to significantly affect breakdown.  Doctors DO NOT inform patients that Coumadin is not a fibrinolytic.  Most patients on Coumadin believe that Coumadin is breaking down their clots. Nattokinase supports the plasmin realm, working the way the body naturally does, to gradually break down clot constituents--no emboli are created.  ("-ase" indicates enzyme)  Some other enzymes and enzyme products can have anti-inflammatory properties, such as those naturally occuring in foods, those in the famous Wobenzym, and those in a number of digestive enzyme products absorbed through the gut.  Inflammation is a key factor in preventing aberrant clots.  But taking laboratory products, rather than foods or food derivatives, is what gets us in trouble.  We do not have the full knowledge of synergy in foods and conventional doctors tend to dismiss, rather than respect, what is unknown.  Synergy is why eating "live" food is so important.  I will stand by Hippocrates--"Let your food be your medicine and your medicine your food."  Treatments derived from foods (which have been alive) are safer than and, in the long term, superior to isolated, fractionated, or synthetic drugs.  Enzymes decrease inflammation because they allow it to resolve--breaking down the barriers in the circulatory and interstitial spaces, so that waste products can leave and nutrition can enter.  This may be why folks report effects on fibroids, muscle pain, and fatigue with enzymes such as Nattokinase and Wobenzym.  It supports the normal, continuous break-down/re-build process at work in the body.  Synthetic drugs target isolated effects (clots) from a bigger problem (inflammation) and fail to address root causes.  Enzymes have a more comprehensive effect--they also aid digestion, so that food does not putrefy, ferment, become rancid--absorption of which also causes inflammation and other undesirable effects on health.  We have 3 paths in the body that cause blood to clot and just one (plasmin) to break down clots. That speaks to the wisdom of the Creator--given a good, low inflammation diet of fresh foods with enzymes, clotting would not occur abnormally.  Bleeding (from injury), not aberrant clotting, would be the primary concern for us if we followed a healthy lifestyle.  With aging, there is more tendency to clotting--this parallels digestive problems (stomach, liver, gall bladder, pancreas, intestinal tract).  Conventional Doctors give acid preventer drugs, such as the purple pill, and antacids.  Natural doctors address healing of ulcers and leaky gut, if necessary, and give enzymes and hydrochloric acid supplements (HCl production declines by 1/2 by the time we reach 50--it's the lactic acid from food fermentation that typically causes heartburn).  One cannot   knowledgeably discuss whole foods or whole food derived supplements with a medical-style mindset--foods/phytonutrients are far more complex than synthetic drugs, and have  synergistic, protective effects that haven't been duplicated in the laboratory. Nattokinase is currently being researched for use in atrial fibrillation.

  • Anonymous

    12/10/2008 3:20:00 AM |

    I know someone who has essential thrombocytosis and her platelets were on a steady path upward until she started taking nattokinase with doctor supervision of her platelets.  They are now on a steady path downward and have already dropped by almost 400 in the last 2 months.  I'm not sure the risks are any moreso than taking a chemotherapy drug for the rest of your life which was the alternative. Anecdotal evidence should not be ignored.

  • lmontgom

    1/12/2009 4:11:00 AM |

    Nattokinase has been a miracle for me. I could barely walk or sleep because of chronic, pervasive pain in both my legs. My doctor x-rayed hips and knees, recommended replacements. She sent me to an orthopedist who asked if my knees and hips hurt. My "No" caused him to send me away. I asked for physical therapy. That helped little. Reading on the vitacost site, I found a comment on natto kinase that caused me to drive to my local health food store, buy some and take it immediately. By Day 2, my legs hurt much less. by Day 4, they stopped hurting. That was about 2 months ago, and the experience continues. In addition, occasional numbesses in my hands ceased. I urge Dr. Davis to look at the effects we are experiencing and find research telling him why it works. I know nothing about thrombolytics but am grateful that I have nattokinase and can walk!

  • Red Beard

    1/29/2009 5:35:00 PM |

    Everyone seems to be missing the most important argument against the effectiveness of nattokinase:  it is a protein enzyme, and there is not a single protein in this universe that can be taken up by our GI tract in its whole and active form.  Look at it this way:  there are a few rare diseases in which a person is unable to make some important enzyme on their own.  If enzyme replacement therapy is an option, this is always done intravenously, because we've known for a long time that you cannot introduce an enzyme in pill form and have it be functional in the blood stream.  If you could, enzyme replacement pills would be a multi-billion dollar industry!

    Yes, nattokinase may have all the effects that have been described vs. clotting, but this is only if you add it DIRECTLY to the blood.  The research that has been done that everyone quotes was not done by having people take this enzyme orally then examining their clotting function.  They either took blood out of a person and added it, or gave it to animals intravenously.  

    Secondly, even IF it was true that an enzyme like nattokinase could be orally active--which is impossible--its fibrinolytic properties would make it MORE DANGEROUS than aspirin in terms of serious side effects.

  • Karen

    2/10/2009 3:09:00 PM |

    and the alternative is coumadan (warfarin) WHICH IS RAT POISON. You are so wrong doctor.

  • Anonymous

    2/15/2009 1:50:00 PM |

    Nattokinase taken orally works, yoiu can find a lot of research on pubmed.
    Maybe stomach environment transforms it in something different, but what if that something is active against blood clotting?

  • Anonymous

    2/23/2009 6:41:00 PM |

    I have noted that NattoKinase as an oral blood thinner is asserted to be a scam here and the rationalisation for this is that there was no reliable research done to back it for what it is purported to do, right?.

    If I advocate anything, it is truth. Be aware that, whether it's a drug manufacturer, a food manufacturer, or a supplement manufacturer, they are willing takers of your money.

    Quote:
    "There are truly effective, powerful supplements out there. Nattokinase is not one of them."
    Dr.Davis

    Well what do you call asserting a negative (its a scam) without empirical research to back the assertion? Do we have the pot calling the kettle black?

    Apparently the research has proceeded to an empirical stage.
    A research summary can be seen here:
    http://www.xymogen.com/drr/RR-012-1104-07.pdf

    Excerpt from link;

    Research
    Two human trials and 17 other studies have been done
    on nattokinase. In a placebo-controlled study done by
    Dr. Sumi in which dogs were induced to have blood
    clots, oral administration of nattokinase (1 gm nattokinase
    as four 250 mg capsules) resulted in angiograms
    showing normal circulation and dissolution of the clot
    within five hours of treatment. In contrast, blood clots
    in the dogs receiving only a placebo did not show any
    signs of dissolution during the 18 hours following treatment.4
    Japanese researchers who studied nattokinase's ability
    to dissolve a thrombus in the carotid arteries of rats
    found that those given nattokinase regained 62% of
    blood flow, whereas those treated with plasmin regained only 15.8%.5
    Researchers from Oklahoma State University,Miyazaki Medical College and JCR Pharmaceuticals
    conducted a human study on 12 healthy volunteers (6 men and 6 women; ages 21-55 years). Before breakfast,each of the volunteers was given 200 grams of the food natto. Then, through a series of blood tests, the researchers tracked the fibrinolytic activity. On average, the volunteers' ELT (a measure of how long it takes to dissolve a blood clot) dropped by 48% within two hours of treatment. This heightened ability to dissolve blood clots was retained for 2 to 8 hours. In order to provide
    a control for the study, the same amount of boiled soybeans
    (non-fermented)was consumed by
    the volunteers. The same tests for fibrinolytic activity did
    not show any significant changes.6

    In recent years, several clinical trials on animals and humans have confirmed this action. A Wister rat study demonstrated on average a 12.7% decline in systolic blood pressure within two hours of a single administration of test extract directly into the
    peritoneum of the rats. These same researchers also confirmed the presence of angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors within the test extract of natto.7 The same extract was then tested on hypertensive human volunteers who took 30 grams of the extract for four consecutive days. In four out of five volunteers, the systolic blood pressure dropped an average of 10.9% and the diastolic dropped 9.7%.7,8

  • Anonymous

    3/2/2009 8:16:00 PM |

    During my last blood test, my C-Reactive Protein Test came out high (3.6) My doctor suggested nattokinase to see if that would reduce the inflammation.  After taking the nattokinase for a month I retested my CRP and the reading was 1.4.  Also, as a side note, I had continuous problems with a hemmroid which has disappeared.  I don't know if this was the nattokinase or not, but I wasn't taking anything else at the time.

  • FunkOdyssey

    3/3/2009 9:23:00 PM |

    You are incorrect in your assertion that nattokinase cannot be absorbed intact across the gut mucosa, and this is supported by published data in contrast to your opinion.  Its effects in humans after oral administration include a reduction of blood pressure:

    Hypertens Res. 2008 Aug;31(8):1583-8.

        Effects of nattokinase on blood pressure: a randomized, controlled trial.
        Kim JY, Gum SN, Paik JK, Lim HH, Kim KC, Ogasawara K, Inoue K, Park S, Jang Y, Lee JH.

        Yonsei University Research Institute of Science for Aging, Department of Food and Nutrition, College of Human Ecology, Yonsei University, and Department of Family Medicine, Mizmedi Hospital, Seoul, Korea.

        The objective of this study was to examine the effects of nattokinase supplementation on blood pressure in subjects with pre-hypertension or stage 1 hypertension. In a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, 86 participants ranging from 20 to 80 years of age with an initial untreated systolic blood pressure (SBP) of 130 to 159 mmHg received nattokinase (2,000 FU/capsule) or a placebo capsule for 8 weeks. Seventy-three subjects completed the protocol. Compared with the control group, the net changes in SBP and diastolic blood pressure (DBP) were -5.55 mmHg (95% confidence interval [CI], -10.5 to -0.57 mmHg; p<0.05) and -2.84 mmHg (CI, -5.33 to -0.33 mmHg; p<0.05), respectively, after the 8-week intervention. The corresponding net change in renin activity was -1.17 ng/mL/h for the nattokinase group compared with the control group (p<0.05). In conclusion, nattokinase supplementation resulted in a reduction in SBP and DBP. These findings suggest that increased intake of nattokinase may play an important role in preventing and treating hypertension.

        PMID: 18971533

    Some evidence of the fact that nattokinase is an orally effective fibrinolytic agent in humans that can be dangerous when used improperly:

    Intern Med. 2008;47(5):467-9. Epub 2008 Mar 3.
        Cerebellar hemorrhage provoked by combined use of nattokinase and aspirin in a patient with cerebral microbleeds.
        Chang YY, Liu JS, Lai SL, Wu HS, Lan MY.

        Department of Neurology, Chang Gung Memorial Hospital-Kaohsiung Medical Center, Chang Gung University College of Medicine, Kaohsiung, Taiwan.

        Nattokinase is used as a health-promoting medicine for preventing thrombosis due to its fibrinolytic activity. Cerebral microbleed is remnant of blood extravasations from the damaged vessels related to cerebral microangiopathies. We report a patient, having used aspirin for secondary stroke prevention, who had an acute cerebellar hemorrhage after taking nattokinase 400 mg daily for 7 consecutive days. In addition to the hemorrhagic lesion, multiple microbleeds were demonstrated on brain MR images. We suggest that nattokinase may increase risk of intracerebral hemorrhage in patients who have bleeding-prone cerebral microangiopathy and are receiving other antithrombotic agent at the same time.

        PMID: 18310985

    It seems nattokinase should be contraindicated in certain high risk populations and should not be combined with other antithrombotic agents.

  • Anonymous

    3/9/2009 9:58:00 PM |

    I am curious about your blanket statement that fibrinolytics are dangerous. Many plants contain significant amounts of proteases that are fibrinolytic; these survive the acid of the stomach, and a portion is absorbed into the blood. Bromelain from pineapple is one prominent example; kiwis also contain a similar protease. These have been used in large doses for decades with few side effects.

  • DVT research

    3/20/2009 8:25:00 PM |

    Sumi's work was a great start, but now there is some momentum and the recent human trials are very interesting.

    Dr. Davis seems to have been a bit prejudicial. Some clinical MDs are very linear thinkers. Dr. Davis, I hope will open his mind.

  • Anonymous

    3/23/2009 5:05:00 PM |

    The nattokinase bottle states not to take it with any type of blood thinning medication or anticoagulant.  Aspirin of itself can cause a brain bleed

  • Jonathan Byron

    4/3/2009 12:59:00 PM |

    Blanket assumptions that proteolytic enzymes simply cannot be absorbed should be reconsidered.

    Here a study that found that orally administered bromelain enzyme is absorbed into the blood intact.

    Intestinal absorption of undegraded proteins in men: presence of bromelain in plasma after oral intake.


    Here are the conclusions of another review on bromelain:
    Bromelain, a standardized complex of proteases from the pineapple plant, is absorbed unchanged from the intestine of animals at a rate of 40%; in animal experiments it was found to have primarily anti-edema, antiinflammatory, and coagulation-inhibiting effects. These effects are due to an enhancement of the serum fibrinolytic activity and inhibition of the fibrinogen synthesis, as well as a direct degradation of fibrin and fibrinogen."

    On the pharmacology of bromelain

  • joker247

    4/5/2009 6:34:00 PM |

    just a comment on surviving stomach acid - I have UC, so I don't take blood thinners (if I started bleeding internally, where would you put the tourniquet?)
    However I do take an anti-inflammatory called ASACOL which has a polymeric coating that only dissolves in an alkaline environment so that the active ingredient gets where it needs to go, the colon. Unless this coating process is patented, it seems that it IS possible to have an active ingredient survive stomach acid. I'm not one to jump on the bandwagon of sensationalized products - as a former chemist I have a bit of wisdom in that regard - but if you really want to get something past the upper digestive tract it seems quite possible.

  • Anonymous

    4/8/2009 6:20:00 PM |

    My opinion is its all about the money  If you are protecting the Drug Companies,than only 3 people know about it. You,.the Drug Companies, and GOD. Every drug made has killed more people than it has cured. Eternity is a very long time I wish you the best

  • Anonymous

    4/14/2009 4:25:00 PM |

    April 14, 2009 Tues. I am 80 year of age, I have been eating fresh made Natto every day for the past 6 years.  My neuclear stress test has shown that I have a 52% blood flow thru my left ventricle of my heart, which I have been told by my doctor is very exceptional and good. Blood pressure rarely above 120/80 Natto is good for you, eat it.  These scientific guys are wrong quite often????

  • Anonymous

    5/3/2009 7:31:00 AM |

    I spent 25 years in medicine. I used to be somewhat close-minded or skeptical to some things so far as natural supplements were concerned.

    I feel that Dr. Davis is obviously close minded and speaks more like someone who is backed by Big Pharma.

    Dr. Davis -- There IS research out there and proven studies advocating the use and effectiveness of nattokinase. You just do not want to hear it for whatever reason.

    Here is a brief article written by pharmacist Dave Foreman who is an RPh, ND and well known author, lecturer and radio host:

    "In 1980, Doctor Hiroyuki Sumi was in the middle of searching for a natural agent that had thrombolytic effects (able to break up blood clots). The enzyme he was looking for would be able to dissolve the clots associated with heart attacks and stroke. After testing over 100 natural foods as potential clot busters, Dr Sumi accidentally found what he was looking for when Natto was dropped onto artificial thrombus (fibrin) in a Petri dish. The thrombus around the Natto dissolved gradually and had completely dissolved within 18 hours. Dr Sumi named the newly discovered enzyme "nattokinase", which means "enzyme in natto".

    To understand the importance of this discovery, let's go back to biology class for a second. Blood clots form when strands of protein called fibrin accumulate in a blood vessel. In the heart, blood clots cause blockage of blood flow to muscle tissue. If blood flow is blocked, the oxygen supply to that tissue is cut off and it eventually dies. This can result in angina and heart attacks. Clots in chambers of the heart can mobilize to the brain. In the brain, blood clots also block blood and oxygen from reaching necessary areas, which can result in senility and/or stroke.

    For many, Nattokinase may be the biggest discovery for natural approaches to cardiovascular health. But what is Nattokinase? Nattokinase is a potent fibrinolytic (breaks down fibrin) enzyme extracted and purified from a traditional Japanese food called Natto. Natto is a cheese-like food and is produced by a specific fermentation process of soybeans. Natto has been used in Japan for over 1,000 years for cardiovascular support and to lower blood pressure. Natto is the only preparation that contains the remarkable nattokinase enzyme with fibrin-dissolving properties.

    Why is Nattokinase so important? The enzyme is capable of breaking down and dissolving blood clots formed in a vessel or heart chamber and can enhance the body's natural ability to fight clotting of the blood. Unlike the class of medications called antithrombin, Nattokinase produces a prolonged action (lasting from 8 - 12 hours) in preventing coagulation of blood and dissolving existing clots.

    As a pharmacist and ND, I think that this discovery is and should be considered a major discovery for those concerned with cardiovascular health issues and general overall health. I come from a family history of cardiovascular disease and have started using Nattokinase personally to help prevent circulatory episodes in the future.

    Beyond the more obvious uses mentioned above, Nattokinase has shown to provide other health benefits. Here is a small list of some of the other potential health benefits of Nattokinase:

    Hemorrhoids and varicose veins
    Diabetes (caused by pancreatic dysfunction)
    Senile dementia
    Fibromyalgia
    Muscle spasms
    Poor healing
    Chronic inflammation

    I believe in using Nattokinase in combination with other enzymes. I believe in using balance and enzymes are no exception to this philosophy. Enzymes support many different facets of health and in this case, Nattokinase is the one to use for cardiovascular health. Regretfully, for those of us who are healthy, it is hard to notice any changes, but with the science behind Nattokinase, you can get piece of mind knowing that you are doing something proactive to help your cardiovascular health.

    Nattokinase is extremely important for circulation and circulatory disorders. If you look at the physiology of the body and understand how Nattokinase works, you can easily understand why this may be a supplement that even the healthiest of people would want to use.

    Finally, the one concern many natural health enthusiasts have is about safety. When looking for a quality Nattokinase, you need to look for one with the vitamin K removed. Natto contains the highest concentration of Vitamin K known in food. Significant amounts of Vitamin K2 are produced during the fermentation process of Nattokinase. By removing most or all of the Vitamin K2 you will eliminate any potential adverse drug interactions with warfarin (Coumadin), a Vitamin K antagonist pharmacological agent typically used an anticoagulant."

    I seriously hope that Dr. Davis will drop the attitude towards nattokinase and open his mind to the PROOF that IS out there supporting the use and  effectiveness of nattokinase.

    Making false statements such as calling nattokinase "a scam" makes people even more leery of doctors in this day and age. Rightfully so.

    Big Pharma has so many Dr's. blinded (or in their hip pockets) in this day and age and I feel that this may also be the case with Dr. Davis.

    I too made mistakes in putting too much faith in alopathic medicine and my own training. That all changed when I developed many significant health issues and was at one time on a dozen different prescription meds daily.

    No longer. I take natural supplements and my health is greatly improved. I'm on only 2 or 3 medications per day. Modern pharmaceutical agents almost cost me my life!

    Let's wake up people. Prescription medications and ignorance are the real killers!

  • Anonymous

    5/3/2009 7:39:00 AM |

    Dr. Davis - I encourage you to do some research on Dr. Stephen Sinatra. He is a board certified Cardiologist and nationally known speaker and best selling author.

    Dr. Sinatra advocates the use of Nattokinase and has switched many of his patients to taking it as opposed to harmful pharmaceuticals.

    Yes, there is the need for coumadin in some cases - but Dr. Sinatra has wondeful success with patients taking nattokinase!

    You owe it to yourself to check out Dr. Sinatra and what he has to say about Natto. There are enough documented studies that promote the safety and effectiveness of nattokinase.

    I hope you too will come to the realization that Nattokinase is not a scam and does in fact work!

  • Anonymous

    5/5/2009 12:10:00 AM |

    I have fibroids and a cyst on my only ovary-I have never had children and I want to. Can Nattokinase help me? What affect will 100 mg 2000 FU do for me or to me? I want real help because I am running out of options that will keep my fertility intact and rid some of these fibroids so they don't take over my uterus. PLEASE HELP!

  • Anonymous

    5/7/2009 5:04:00 PM |

    Anyone wondering if nattokinase can survive the gut and enter the bloodstream has only to search PubMed. Dr. Davis is incorrect in his assertion that nattokinase is rendered ineffective by transit through the gut. There are interesting studies suggesting that nattokinase can lower blood pressure and inhibit restenosis after angioplasty.

  • Anonymous

    5/21/2009 9:40:29 PM |

    Does anyone know, if when taking Nattokinase, a person can remain active in contact sports or does it thin the blood too much?

  • KRyan

    5/22/2009 5:12:44 PM |

    If your worried about stomach acid destroying nattokinase or any other acid sensitive supplement, just make sure your stomach acid is low. Take them on an empty stomach when there is no need for stomach acid. Take them with water to dilute the acid. I think you'll be surprised at how high the ph will go just from the water alone. (I wonder if people drink to many fluids with their meals and it hinders digestion or puts stress on the body to produce greater loads of acid) More info on stomach acid and reactions with food, supplements,enzymes etc http://www.care2.com/news/member/956805373/322081

  • terraoutwest

    5/28/2009 10:25:06 PM |

    Factor Five Leiden is my main problem, not the usual plaque and cholesterol type issues with blood clots. I recently had a minor heart attack where the blood clot developed in the heart itself (they think) and now I'm on warfarin 5mg. I'm an athlete and although I don't intend to "hurt myself, (who does?)the opportunity for bumps, bruises and scrapes is there. I really don't like the other side effects of warfarin either. I would really like to get away from the pharmaceuticals and on to something more natural with less (or no) side effects. Surely there is some other way to manage Factor Five patients who are otherwise quite healthy. And... I miss my leafy greens!  Any research out there on management of Factor Five without Coumadin?

  • Carla B

    6/4/2009 4:52:48 AM |

    To the person who posted anonymously on december 9, 2008. I am desperately looking for a natural way to treat my escalating thrombocytosis. Would love to talk to your friend. If you're still tuned into this post, please reach me at purpledots at pacbell dott net. I would be forever grateful.

  • Anonymous

    6/4/2009 5:18:50 AM |

    To the anonymous person who left the comment on December 9, 2008 with the friend who's thrombocytosis was improved with nattokinase: I'm desperately trying to find something natural to treat mine. If you're still tuned in to this post, please drop me a line at purpledots at pacbell dott net. I would be forever grateful.

  • Anonymous

    6/10/2009 2:39:19 PM |

    I have various fibroids - the biggest is the size of a canteloupe - or was - since taking Natto for 2 weeks - it is shrunk. I cannot say that it was the Natto for sure, but I changed nothing else.  

    Natto was easier for me to find that Nattokinase.  I have heard that Natto is not popular amongst Westerners but I have no problem with it.

    If it helps those willing to try - its texture is like a tin of baked beans mixed into a tablespoon of a beaten egg. While at the Asian supermarket - where I bought the Natto in the chilled storage section - I also bought a bottle of Chili Soy Sauce (from the Chinese section) and the Chili Soy Sauce is yummy with the Natto.  But then I do like Chili Soy Sauce.  Its worth trying. The Natto that is - add a sauce flavor you like, if it makes it more palatable to you.  The real Natto is way cheaper than the supplement, and in my view it is the supplement manufacturer's that are putting us off eating the cheaper, natural Natto by saying things like it is disgusting - but then some people don't like beaten egg.  PS there are many different types of Natto and I am working my way through.  I can't read Japanese - so all I can tell you is so far I like the ones in the Green wrapper and also the ones in the yellow wrapper.  They are stacked as three small trays each and I eat half a tray every 2 days.

  • Anonymous

    6/14/2009 4:33:21 PM |

    My father had a DVT 2 years ago.  He was started on heparin and then switched to coumadin and had complete resolution of his clots.  He didn't like the idea of being on warfarin for the rest of his life and switched to natto instead.  He had not been feeling well over the course of the past 3 weeks but didn't want to see his doctor until he collapsed at home and was rushed to the ED via ambulance.  He had numerous pumlmonary emboli as well as large clots in his pulmonary artery and the veins of both legs.  The doctors told him that he had probably been throwing clots for weeks if not months.  He is set to be released today and is already talking about when he can get off the warfarin and back on the natto.  I think this is clearly a failure of the natto to prevent and/or treat the clots.  I do not know if the warfarin would have prevented them or not, but due to the number of clots in multiple vessels I am pushing for him to continue the warfarin.  Warfarin certainly has side effects but it is the gold standard for preventing blood clots.  Unless there is a study natto is superior to warfarin then I wouldn't recommend using it.  BTW he had been taking natto for several years prior to his first DVT, so it didn't prevent that one either.

  • terraoutwest

    6/15/2009 2:46:58 PM |

    What about the earthworm based lumbrokinase? Anyone out there tried this?

    It sounds more disgusting than Natto, but I believe there have been more/better studies on it and has accepted as a better alternative (at least) by the Naturopathic doctors.

  • Anonymous

    7/6/2009 2:15:22 AM |

    Anonymous, June 14, 2009 :

    What brand name of Nattokinase did your father take? Be assured there are REPUTABLE brands out there, but also MANY FAKES!

    Just because a brand is cheap does not mean it is reputable. Many of the fakes out there claim to be reputable, and even provide you with a 'certificate', but in reality they have no active ingredients!

    A reputable brand would be (as an example) Allergy Research.

  • Anonymous

    7/6/2009 2:22:54 AM |

    terraoutwest  May 28, 2009

    Nattokinase might just be your ticket. It has virtually no side effect;, the 'real' stuff has no vitamin K in it, so it can be used with warfarin, but if you do it w/o warfarin, then you can eat and drink whatever you want to and however much you want to. The only thing you should not do is to take nattokinase together with other enzymes. Wait a couple hours between each.
    I have factor v leiden, and am on nattokinase since about eight years now. No clots.
    Cannot overdose on it either. Make sure you get a reputable brand.

  • Anonymous

    7/11/2009 4:00:19 AM |

    RE:"Everyone seems to be missing the most important argument against the effectiveness of nattokinase: it is a protein enzyme, and there is not a single protein in this universe that can be taken up by our GI tract in its whole and active form."

    Never say never, or should I regret having just violated that rule by saying never.

    Prions are a class of proteins that modify other proteins.  If taken orally, it will cause illness like mad cow disease.  It is believed that the prion modifies other proteins in the brain in a cascading fashion, eventually causing total cns dysfunction by converting increasing number of proteins into more prions.

    My point, saying all proteins can not survive low pH in the stomach is too broad of a statement to make.  I am afraid modern sciences is not yet able to explain all events that can take place in the body.

    Saying one should be skeptical of nattokinase is justifiable, but declaring nattokinase to be a scam is a claim that calls for more evidence, in my opinion.

    If I witness first hand cases in which natto proves to be effective, I will then become skeptical of the claim that nattokinase is a scam.

    I hope the same will be true for Dr. Davis.

  • Anonymous

    7/19/2009 11:49:43 PM |

    Nearly a year ago I could barely function due to endometriosis. I was working from home only a few hours a week because the pain was so bad. I just wanted to lay around and have someone put me out of my misery.

    I then began purchasing Fibrovan which has nattokinase in it. It didn't take long before I started noticing positive results. Little by little I started improving. The pain began lessening. My blood pressure improved.My energy improved. I was able to go for long walks and I'm back working full time outside the home, doing a very physically demanding job working in a hospital.

    A scam is something that is  fraudulent or deceptive. I in no way feel like I have been scammed. My health has improved and for that I am thankful.

  • citizen alan

    7/20/2009 5:08:10 PM |

    I think the work of Linus Pauling definitely indicates that EVERYONE on ANY sort of anti-coagulant should be supplementing with Vitamin C. My dad was taking aspirin (as a preventative) without letting me know and wound up with blood collecting in his eyes.  Permanently half-blind, a condition that I believe would have been totally avoidable had he also supplemented with at least 500 mg/day of Vitamin C.

  • Anonymous

    7/24/2009 6:30:18 PM |

    My husband and I eat natto, and while not Japanese, I have come to like it. We buy several packs and freeze them.

    We think natto tastes good with chopped green onions or chives, and/or some grated daikon radish, along with a bit of soy sauce.

    Sometimes we also mix natto with a bit of soy sauce, a very small amount of grated ginger, finely shredded radish leaves (leaves of the familiar small, red-skinned-white-inside radishes), and some of the dried fish flakes called "katsuobushi," which is available in small packets at Japanese food stores.

    If you eat natto along with rice, it will probably be easier to get down.

  • Anonymous

    8/5/2009 10:33:31 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I don't know if you are right or not on this matter.  If the stomach destroys Nattokinase, how then is there any effect, good or bad?  My wife has fibrosis in her bone marrow and we just discovered today that this substance may stop or reverse this activity.  The alternative is a steady downgrade and finally death.  I am concerned that she is on a baby aspirin along with her chemo as that might not be a good thing to take with this; we will be seeing the oncologist next week again and ask.  

    In any case, I appreciate your attempt to warn, and hope that whoever does not agree would be kind in their remarks and suggestions.  Thank you.

  • Anonymous

    8/12/2009 8:01:50 PM |

    My experience is only anecdotal. After going through a triple by-pass I was put on Plavix, aspirin, etc.  I din't experience the blotches (internal bleeding) that a co-worker who had a stent put in did.  

    But when I added NK about 5 months in I did experience them and consequently cut the Plavix rather than the NK.

    That was a couple years ago and still continue the NK. Wouldn't mind trying the Natto though I would have to go up to Tucson to get it.

    So it could have been just a coincidence but as an engineer I don't really believe in them or half the crap the medical community tries to foist off as fact.  No offense, Doc.  Smile

  • lmontgom

    8/19/2009 8:51:51 PM |

    Dr. Davis:
    Why have you been silent on nattokinase for so long?  I continue to derive great benefit from it.  I would not be walking today because of muscle weakness and pain were it not for nattokinase, which I buy from vitacost.com.

  • Anonymous

    9/8/2009 6:58:32 PM |

    VERY TELLING how Dr. Davis has disappeared, stopped replying when confronted with the double-blind studies that show he's wrong.

    I'm disappointed.  I was considering signing up for the Track Your Plaque program, but forget it.

    This guy has shown that if he's not selling it, he's not buying it either.

  • Fran

    9/22/2009 4:13:25 AM |

    I searched your blog for "serrapeptase", another supplement that claims to be a natural Chelation-Anti-Inflammatory. From serrapeptase info website: "Serrapeptase digests non-living tissue, blood clots, cysts, and arterial plaque and inflammation in all forms." Have you written any blogs about this product?

  • Anonymous

    9/26/2009 3:24:59 PM |

    lmontgom said...
    Dr. Davis:
    Why have you been silent on nattokinase for so long? I continue to derive great benefit from it. I would not be walking today because of muscle weakness and pain were it not for nattokinase, which I buy from vitacost.com

    Please tell me what brand name you bought, I want to be sure to get one that someone has experienced success with! i have always experienced heavy bleeding during menstration but 2 yrs ago it got worse, now I have been bleeding for 3 weeks VERY heavy, hemoglobin down (will need blood transfusion soon), i have fibroids and i have an ultra sound scheduled to see if the fibroids have increased in size, but the treatments that my dr has suggested are ablation or hysterectomy (have 2 children and although I don't currently want any more, not sure if i am ready to close that door, still in my 30s).  I've spoke to many women who have experienced this and am just appalled that some dr's i have seen sit so nonchalant while i explain what is happening as if flowing quarts of blood out of you is completly acceptable!!  Although I have read reviews where nattokinase has not worked for some people, I have not read any reviews where people have experienced negative side effects.  I will try nattokinase and post again, but again, what brand do you buy, I want a reputable brand?

  • Anonymous

    9/28/2009 3:54:08 PM |

    I am interested in NK. This forum has been on for over two years initiated by valid criticisms from Dr. Davis. The respondents are all intelligently fluid in their arguments. There is one thing missing.

    Dr. Davies mentioned side affects of good blood clots dissolving. I imagine anyone with these symptoms would be very miserable or dead and the diagnosis of cause very, very difficult. Of the previous respondents how many have suffered these symptoms? How would we ever know? Could everyone who is PRO NK assign a close relative to update this forum if something happens?

  • Anonymous

    10/1/2009 5:03:44 AM |

    As a mother of 3 adult sons, I have a dilemma! My youngest son (25 yrs) was recently diagnosed with a DVT in his leg. While my oldest son (today 34 yrs) had a blood cloth in his brain 6 yrs ago. Doctors then declared to be a "very rare" case and not to worry that it would happen again. Last Sept, he developed a DVT in his leg. He is now on Coumadin for life.

    I had contacted a Naturopath earlier (Feb 09) who told me that he has helped many patients with similar conditions with Nattokinase.
    As my boys are very young in age (tests do not show genes as both parents have no problems) I would really appreciate some feedback.

  • Tom

    10/19/2009 5:46:32 AM |

    To many people with so little grasp of basic physiology.

    1. Proteins are denatured in the stomach, not degraded. Degradation occurs in the small intestine and can not be avoided because this is also the purported  site of absorbtion.

    2. Intact proteins can not be absorbed. If intact proteins could be absorbed, pretty much all food would be 100% fatal.

    3. If Nattokinase did even half of what is claimed, Dr. Davis is quite right, it would kill you.


    I think most of the miracle cures being claimed by other commentors are either placebo, or missattributed. (I might point out that, in most cases described, the symptoms alleviated could have resulted from a severe vitamin K deficiency, and might be alleviated by the fact that these crude isolates of natto CONTAIN VITAMIN K)




    Nattokinase is produced and market heavily by the same guys who sell you trypsin and chymotrypsin pills in the form of wobenzyme with the claim that those enzymes are able to have a systemic effect.  Clearly the naturally occurring enzyme trypsin (which functions to lyse proteins in the small intestine) could not possibly leave the small intestine without killing you.


    I had a dog once that had a intestinal defect that did allow intact proteins be absorbed from its intestine. Obviously this dog didn't live very long. Think massive fluid imbalances and kidney failure.

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/19/2009 10:04:18 PM |

    Hi, Tom--

    Excellent points.

    The fanaticism that surrounds this absurd approach continues to astound.

  • Anonymous

    10/20/2009 10:52:51 PM |

    From one who has taken nattokinase for a couple of years I find your comments while logically consistent - wrong.

    Nattokinase blew out my arteriosclerosis as evidenced by the elasticity of my blood vessels, reduced my BP. and appears to have cleared out my blood debris. It doesn't replace fish oil, so I will take both - intemittently.

  • Anonymous

    10/22/2009 2:51:32 PM |

    So, how do you research the companies, marketing Nattokinase, to know if the ingredients are real or not?

  • Anonymous

    10/26/2009 1:02:17 AM |

    There is research the supports the concept that the human GI tract can absorb intact proteins:

    http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/273/1/G139

    http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146%2Fannurev.nu.08.070188.001553

  • Tom

    10/26/2009 6:06:40 AM |

    That first link is only pseudo science done on a small scale by scientific guns for hire, (note that the institute La Fey specializing in being contracted by private R&D entities, and also observe that each author has published about 1 dubious article in just about every field).

    The second only involves trace absorption of 2-3 residue peptides, with some exceptions due to the role of erythrocytes as antigen presenting cells.  It is possible that this mechanism would allow an ingested peptide to be presented intact or in fragments to the immune system with immunomodulating effects(as is clearly the case with certain foodborne allergies and conditions). It is possible that these enzyme products might produce a beneficial effect through that or other unknown mechanisms, but the makers of these products do not make that claim, perhaps due to its complexity. Rather, they invariably make simple, easily marketed claims.


    But that is besides the point,
    those who market and promote Nattokinase and other "enzyme" healing products deceptively make claims that are unsupported, contradictory, and physiologically unfeasible.   One should always be wary of any product, natural or otherwise that makes broad unsupported claims as to how and what it does.

  • lmontgom

    10/26/2009 7:15:16 PM |

    Everyone -- users, researchers, docs -- should remember that each human body is unique.  For those of us who have used nattokinase and say it works (meaning it stops the pain, in my case), who are you to say that we should discontinue it?  I will order natto itself just to be sure nothing has happened in the processing of nattokinase that changes its impact in the body.  Until then, I will use what works for me and trust that Dr. Davis and the rest of the nay-sayers would do the same.

  • Anonymous

    10/29/2009 5:30:58 PM |

    Dear Doc -
    if NK is a scam like you say, then how can it be dangerous?  since a scam is afterall a fake.    yet you say the people who eat the food get some kind of benefit and no ill effects?    

    this does not make any sense.

  • Anonymous

    10/29/2009 11:14:55 PM |

    Not sure what you mean by "pseudoscience" in terms of bromelain absorption (the protein in question my posting of 10/25).  

    This would no doubt come as a surprise to Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, who states:  "Orally administered bromelain is absorbed intact through the intestine. Because of its proteolytic activity, about 50% of bromelain is rapidly complexed with an antiproteinase, namely alpha-2-macroglobulin (AMG). Proteolytic activity is maintained within this protective molecule, but reduced. In a recent human study, plasma half-life was determined to be 6-9 hours. Orally administered bromelain is absorbed at a rate of 40% in animal studies."

    I would also remind you that cyclosporine is an 11 polypeptide molecule that is administered orally.


    Thrombolysis is a natural occuring event.  All blood clots secrete thrombolysins. The question is now much, how its mediated, etc.  It's like saying no one should take Coumadin or Lovenox, because they would all become hemophiliacs and bleed to death.

    I would agree that the story on nattokinase is not complete.  But calling it a "scam" is merely the obverse of calling it a "miracle drug."

  • Tom

    10/30/2009 4:09:16 AM |

    Seriously? You refute me refuting your paper by citing a source which cites the same fake research paper? It is pseudoscience because all the names associated with the paper are people are hired to write whatever paper/conclusion you want. BTW, the paper only goes so far as to say that over a 48 hour period 10.8 micrograms were in the ENTIRE plasma. May I offer you a book titled "How To Lie With Statistics"?


    For a much more in depth study of bromelian absorption look for a 1971 study published in the Japanese Journal of Pharmacology titled Gastrointestinal Absorption And Anti Inflammatory Effect of Bromelian. That study was done in dogs, but they found the half life of intravenous bromelian was only about one hour. They also found that less than .052% of a intraduodenal dose of labeled bromelian was absorbed "intact" based on the assumption that radioactive proteins of similar mass and isoelectric point found in the plasma were in fact bromelian. Their immunological assays detected that the actual amount of bromelian was MUCH less.  The absorption you quote, 40%, is absurd.

    Also, cyclosporine is only 11 residues long, cyclic, and composed of D-amino acids not normally encountered in nature.  11 is much smaller than 275 for nattokinase.  Yes some proteins can be absorbed, like botulin toxin (on a nanogram scale), but not the huge amounts claimed by the natto guys.

  • Anonymous

    11/4/2009 1:24:26 PM |

    Why would someone buy supplements? The whole supplement industry kinda' confuses me over all. Nattou is delicious... just eat nattou. There are lots of foods that have vitamins and nutritional value that you can receive if you just eat a varied diet. As long as you're eating a variety of healthy foods, taking supplements is a big fat waste of money!

  • Chris33780

    11/11/2009 9:29:45 AM |

    Dr Davis said: "The data I've looked at re: nattokinase has been proprietary, generated clearly by a manufacturer. Until some real science emerges, even modest, to support this otherwise counterintuitive strategy, it remains something that has no value for our plaque reducing focus."

    Why would the FDA bother with producing real science on something they cannot patent and gain a return on their investment? I am not going to fall for criticism of the effectiveness of a substance just because money cannot be made by the FDA. The people I hear putting nattokinase down want proof by FDA approval, and this would only happen if it could be patentable, which a natural substance cannot be.

  • Dr. William Davis

    11/11/2009 1:07:21 PM |

    Earth to Chris:

    The FDA does NOT generate data to support or refute any drug or supplement. They are only a regulating agency.

  • Anonymous

    11/22/2009 2:39:06 AM |

    I am just starting to look into this issue having recently been diagnosed with a DVT.

    I appreciate that Dr. Davis has taken the time to explain why he refutes certain natto claims.  I am squarely in the camp of proof via empirical evidence; even more so when people stand to profit from a mere suggestion that something benefits you in a particular way.

  • Anonymous

    12/1/2009 4:48:30 AM |

    Here's the problem with blasting nattokinase based on stomach acid acidity or fear of indiscriminate breakdown of "good" clots as an unwanted side effect: this kind of Western, Descartian thinking when applied to the complex human body so often proves to be simply wrong. There are studies that show vitamin B2 promotes cancer growth, for example, but others that show increased vitamin C counteracts that effect. Perhaps the Japanese who ingest more nattokinase and have fewer fractures benefit from it in ways that are similar to users of whole herbs who do better than those who use just the "active ingredient" isolated from the same herbs. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio..." I eat Natto miso and LOVE it. It tastes great in soup or rice and veggies. I've gone out of my way to find it via internet/mail order after our co-op stopped carrying it. I feel great after I eat it. I also tried buying a bottle of nattokinase and found that my trigeminal neuralgia gets worse after taking it, or seems to. I've only tried it a very few times so perhaps it was coincidental. (When you have something this painful you don't play around with trying things that seem to make it worse.) I also notice bromelain makes it worse, and from what I've read that, too, is fibrinolytic, right? And that one has a lot of research showing it somehow survives the stomach acid, doesn't it? I'm going from memory of quickly scanned articles, there, so may be all wrong. A final thought: I've heard that vegans have substantially less stomach acid than meat eaters. Have there been any studies on this? My intuition is there is probably something to this, and the difference may be quite significant. My wife and I often think our desire for sugar after protein is out of a need to generate more acid than we tend to produce normally. Just some thoughts to encourage a less "know-it-all" attitude so common among doctors trained in the USA and other Western cultures. I almost think sometimes it is a personality trait that is a prerequisite for getting through Med schools here, having a mind that quickly closes.

  • Trey

    12/5/2009 7:41:22 PM |

    Dr. Davis...isn't it true that you as a physician are bound by the laws of the medical community and face a severe fine or possibly loss of license for recommending anything out of conventional treatment? The same treatments such as the same thing we have done tirelessly for years for cancer treatment (Chemotherapy) amd that also as a doctor going through medical school Doctors are taught very little about nutrition?

  • Anonymous

    12/14/2009 10:08:31 PM |

    Could the proliferation of various electromagnetic-radiation-producing technologies within the last century (electricity/electrical power lines, radio, radar, cell phone and wifi towers and antennas) be the underlying mechanism behind the increased risk of heart attacks and strokes in industrialized nations, more so than diet?

    I ask because I've read several articles which seem to indicate that calcium metabolism is affected by these exposures to electromagnetic/radiofreqency/microwave radiation. Specifically, calcium's 'efflux' - its movement into and out of cells - is affected by these exposures.

    http://electromagnetichealth.org/electromagnetic-health-blog/the-cell-phone-and-the-role-of-calcium/

  • ron

    12/30/2009 2:49:14 PM |

    I have had two heart attacks, the last one after a quintuple bypass. Unfortunately, no tests are done as to the bodies rejection factor of sutures used in bypass surgery, resulting in two of the bypass grafts failing (disintegrating) and the remaining grafts heavily crusted by the bodies rejection mechanisms. I am still strong and active, plavix and aspirin daily with BP meds. During a recent angiogram, the Dr. tore the saphenous vein graft to my rt. cor. art. causing a large thrombus. Hence the present meds. Anyone used NK in this instance.
    I know it sounds scary, but I have no chest pain, exercise daily BP 120/60 HR 60. Any other input would be appreciated.
    Ron

  • Anonymous

    12/30/2009 6:42:47 PM |

    The real scam is American medicine that has for years led people to believe it is about "health" and "care".  In reality, it is about money.  Follow the money, you'll always find the answer.  Big Pharma is big business, plain and simple.  Most doctors don't give a hoot about their patients.  With Big Pharma rewarding doctors for prescribing their drugs, doctors have lost credibility in favor of montary persuasion.  It's no longer what's best for the patient, but what profits the practitioner.

  • Anonymous

    1/4/2010 2:09:54 AM |

    Dr. Davis, by not publishing one's comments you likely think nattokinase will lose credibility.  Regardless of what Big Pharma-rewarded MDs think in this country, nattokinase works.  However, I understand the tenacles of Big Pharma reach far and wide and why you would be afraid to publish my comment clearly showing NK worked.  U.S. medicine is gravely lacking in many ways.  I dare you to publish my prior comment regarding how four (count 'em 4) MDs couldn't diagnose the obvious >2 ft. clot in my left leg despite my emphatically telling them it was a clot.  Indeed and in fact, many practitioners have egos that arrive 20 minutes before they do!  I suppose you think the American people should have confidence in a system controlled by drug companies.  You have immensely increased my respect for the Japanese where research is not sponsored by Big Pharma.  Instead of criticizing the Japanese and Nattokinase, perhaps you should start emulating!!

  • Holly

    1/10/2010 4:24:46 AM |

    I am a patient who has antiphospholipid syndrome.  I also have low factor VIII levels. Before this was diagnosed, in 2008, I suffered over 5 strokes (only 1 left me with some small permanent damage, luckily) and countless tia's (am in my 50's and there was no other medical reason for me to be having stroke/tia).
    Because of the low factor VIII levels, my hematologist explained I was not a candidate for warfarin, however we tried heparin injections for 4 months.  My body could not tolerate them, it was explained to me that there was nothing which could be done for me.  (yes, I did have a second opinion).  
    Several months later I was introduced to nattokinase at Allergy Research Group.  After much research, started taking 400 mg. daily, divided.  This was 2 years ago.  Since that time I have had one tia.  My hematologist is familiar with nattokinase, but will not support it, so I have had to leave her.  However I am working with my internist who does support it and gives me the proper blood tests; everything is in order.
    Allergy Research Group addresses the question of stomach acid you bring up; they have printed much with the limited research which has been able to be done.  Before closing your book completely on this subject, perhaps you might look a bit further - many people are being helped by this where no other help is available.  
    Natto is not a scam.  It IS important to get quality product and there ARE inferior products out there.  It is always vital to study carefully when one is venturing into any alternative health remedy and remember that someone is ready to take your money all too easily.  It is just as vital to remember that western medicine, as marvelous as it is, does not have all the answers.  All too often doctors can be very closed minded without doing proper research.

  • Anonymous

    1/29/2010 3:39:51 AM |

    A very interesting thread for sure.

    I had Massive PE last year.  It stemmed from walking pneumonia (treated as adult onset asthma)
    PE never showed up on scans as no contrast was used.  
    They even did a heart cath on me while I had massive PE and could hardly breath (they thought I was nervous)  Major Pulmonary HTN and Massive PE found a week later at a University clinic via spiral CT.
    I could not walk 10 feet, they just said "You out of shape" hehe I'm 40 and play singles comp. tennis.  

    I did have very high CRP >10 and high D-dimer but they failed to connect the dots.  

    Anyway after IV abs, heparin then later coumadin (I declined surgery
    ) My CRP went down to near normal levels.   My clots were thought to be from chronic infection and resulting inflammation.

    I don't take natto (yet) but there seems to be quite a bit of anecdotal and some scientific evidence (Airline study)

    The problem I see is
    1. How does it interact with ASA?
    2. How does it interact with warfarin?
    3. How much is enough?
    4. How often?

    I agree with the good Dr. Davis on most of the points.  But its very difficult to call anything "Snake Oil" without knowing the true mechanism of action.  

    There are many medications that have been studied and are currently being prescribed in which the mechanism of actions is "unknown".  The studies show that it had a repeatable effect and that it improved the condition being tested for but the "how it works" is not known.  These are not snake oil because we do not know how it works.  Its because they have been found to show a positive response above what is found with placebo.


    There is enough anecdotal evidence on Natto for scientific studies to be done.  This is how many drugs are finally tested.  Where do you think we got antibiotics?  People have been taking natural things way before we had science.  Many of these have been tested.

    Natto is one that has not been.

    I would love to see some real studies on it.  

    A more interesting question is not if it is or not is snake oil but why has this not been studied?

    The assumption of its destruction in the stomach implies that one knows its mechanism.  After studies are done we will know.  It may be it works but in a totally different way than DR. Davis envisioned.  

    So I am not sure why he is so quick to label it as a scam when he simply does not have enough information to say one way or another.

    It may be true that the drug companies can't make a profit on it but why can't some of these well to do Vitamin companies fund the research?  The money has to come from somewhere.  I don't expect big pharm to foot the bill but someone should.

    From what evidence is available it all points to something more than a placebo effect.  Animal studies and one human study point to something real happening.
    I have yet to read any studies stating that there is no effect.

    Without seeing studies to the contrary I think Dr. Davis is just using his intuition.  Not saying his educated guess is wrong just saying its just a guess with some holes in it.

  • Anonymous

    1/31/2010 3:59:26 AM |

    I've had many a spirited discussion with MDs and PhDs about whether enzymes taken orally can go systemic.  All I can say is that there are a lot of MDs and PhDs who believe that enzymes cannot and do not go systemic.  HOWEVER, there are other MDs and PhDs who vehemently disagree and there are studies from reputable investigators that support the belief that enzymes can enter the blood stream intact or at least in some fashion where they can can be proteolytic or fibrolytic.  

    So, it's easy to stop all argument about the efficacy of an enzyme like nattokinase if you believe it can't work because it can't get into the blood.  I mean, honestly, there is nothing left to discuss, right?  And that seems to be Dr. Davis's basic position and Dr. Davis is clearly with the majority of doctors who hold this position.  

    However, if you accept the possibility that some enzymes CAN enter the blood stream, then you must then discuss what they might accomplish, for good or for bad, while in the blood.  And that leads to a discussion of WHICH enzymes might work best, and WHAT they might accomplish, and WHAT dosages work . . . a whole host of follow on questions that, presently, have few answers.

    That leaves all of us who'd like to know real answers sort of in the dark.  We are left with anecdotal testimonials, some who had good experiences and some who had adverse reactions.  That still doesn't give intellectual warm fuzzies.  However, if does suggest that if something MIGHT work and has few contraindications, that one might want to give it a try.

    As Dr. Davis clearly knows, logic is not controlling in science.  Science is complete with theories that are logically sound and later completely discredited as simply wrong despite the logic.  

    Logically, one has to allow that enzymes may be able to enter the blood system and may have curative effects -- until the theory is totally discredited -- even if you don't really know how it works.

  • stevensgarethb

    2/8/2010 11:57:22 PM |

    300 years ago if you were ill you would go to the local barbers where they would take some blood with an unclean instrument and infect you with a nasty disease. They would then send you home with some medication which did not work and was highly dangerous causing other medical conditions to arise. It is different today. Now the only thing that has changed is that you go to a nice new hospital to get infected and given medication that is dangerous and does not work and causes other medical conditionsSmile

    I am taking Neprinol which contains Nattokinase and Serrapeptase and it worked within several hours taken orally. I  use Neprinol as a replacement for Fragmin which I had already been taking for 6 months.  The alternative would have been Coumadin (Warfarin). It is all very well knocking Nattokinase but what alternative is there?
    I tried to stop taking fragmin but within half a day my symptoms came back.  Since taking Neprinol my symptoms have not returned and I am  experiencing no side effects apart from increased energy. I am cycling uphill 8 gears higher than before and not getting tired. Previously I had been admitted to hospital 5 times with chest pain, the first time I had an MI and the other times were at a different hospital who did not have a clue.  I did not appreciate being given a drug which made my condition worse.  I am from a highly technical background and could tell that the cardiac department had no expertise in understanding how the body works. It is obvious to me that medical staff are "non technical" so they can never work out what is wrong with someone.
    I decided to self diagnose and self prescribe and that was the best decision I ever made. I understand my condition now and how to treat it which is great.  I have also discovered a rare genetic link in my family and hope to connect with a University who are researching this subject.  I hope to start golf again when the weather improves and cycle along some mountain routes to improve my fitness.


    If doctors were paid by results... we would save an awful lot of money!

  • Anonymous

    2/18/2010 10:40:33 PM |

    I had a documented >2 foot long blood clot.  There is no denying the existence of this clot.  (THERE IS ALSO NO DENYING THE RESOLUTION OF THIS CLOT BY CURRENT ULTRASOUND!)  I went on one week of Lovenox and had serial ultrasounds on my left leg for  months.  The clot remained.  I started Nattokinase 15,000 FUs per capsule (4x/day).  Eighteen months later when another ultrasound was done, I was called back to the facility because they thought they had done the wrong leg or the test was done incorrectly by the tech.  Why?  BECAUSE THERE WAS NO CLOT FOUND.  The radiologist repeatedly stated I had to be incorrect in what I was taking, that it had to be Coumadin [note:  Coumadin prevents additional clots--it does not lyse clots].  HE WAS INCORRECT.  I definitely know what I take--it was, is and continues to be Nattokinase.  Nattokinase got rid of my clot, plain and simple.  If conventional providers do not want to believe it, I don't care.  If it can work for a >2 foot long clot, it likely works for other clots.  That said, I am a healthcare professional and fact is conventional medicine cares about nothing other than money.  Healthcare is "sick" care because that's where the money is made.  An epidemic of good health is the last thing Big Pharma wants!  If something can be effective without requiring frequent labs and doctor visits, obviously it would cut into the "take" on the part of MDs and other providers.  The system itself is sick!  Just as we laughed at those "funny-looking" Japanese cars in the 1970s and 1980s, it was those "funny" cars that gained the majority market share.  The Japanese healthcare system is much more efficient than the U.S. system.  Since it is care-driven versus our money-driven system, I believe it has more credibility.  I believe Dr. Sumi's research and will not have confidence in our system until such time research is objective and not controlled by big pharma.

  • Anonymous

    2/21/2010 3:02:13 AM |

    I just read this from Tom's post and found he countradicts himself:
    Tom said:
    It is possible that these enzyme products might produce a beneficial effect through that or other unknown mechanisms, but the makers of these products do not make that claim, perhaps due to its complexity. Rather, they invariably make simple, easily marketed claims.

    One should always be wary of any product, natural or otherwise that makes broad unsupported claims as to how and what it does." end quote

    Does this apply to Avandia too?

    I stated taking NK a month ago because I was having heart pain, nothing terribly serious as doctors never find any problems with my heart. After a few weeks I have not had any heart pains, and feel better, sleep better, etc.  I attribute it to the NK, and will continue to take it. My dad had heart problems so I am aware that I must prevent the same.  Taking anything else would be contrary to what works.  It is clear that Dr. Davis doesn't have a cure for heart disease and therefore can make no claims that NK does not work.  You can't have it both ways chum.
    The scam is the drug cartels, not natural products that work.

  • Dottie

    2/23/2010 10:46:17 PM |

    I haven't seen anything about Nattokinase being used to dissolve scar tissue in the stomach, for which I was referred.  Anyone heard of this?

  • Anonymous

    3/1/2010 12:39:41 AM |

    Please, people, stop falling into the trap of thinking that every study abstracted in PubMed is of good quality, let alone "proof."  I have to constantly caution myself against this, especially when all I am looking at is an abstract (and I would venture to say that less than 1% of the abstract readers bother to obtain the full article, and even if they do they probably don't rally understand much of what they are reading).

    And remember that the "pro supplement" research is just as prone to bias (often economically-motivated) as the pharma studies, and MORE prone to low quality.  Big Pharma and the Supplement industry BOTH have the almighty dollar as their primary motivator, and your health as -- perhaps -- a secondary motivator.  Neither should be demonized any more than the other.

    I use multiple supplements, including some herbs, and multiple drugs.  And I know there are potential risks and benefits (including unknown properties and unknown interactions) with both.  I also knwo that just because something "works" for me and *seems* safe, that it won't necessarily work for everyone, and isn't necessarily safe for everyone.  And that long-term hidden unknown detriments or benefits (again, for both supplements and drugs) may lurk.

    I know this has been rambling, but the main takeaways are:
    (1) Drug vs. "natural" partisans, please wise up
    (2) Don't assume everything you read is accurate (even the relatively unbiased stuff) just because "there are some studies,"  and
    (3) For very serious consitions such as cardiovascular disease, cerebrovascular disease, and cancer, realize that you NEED a doctor.  That doesn't mean you can't shop around for a better one, or that you can't question everything they say.

    Let me finish by saying that I found a "5 star" customer review of nattokinase on a well-known supplement site chilling.  It was to the effect of, "My Dad died of an aneuryism and no one can explain why, so I'm taking nattokinase to make sure the same thing doesn't happen to me!  It's great!"  That's SCARY!!

    (sorry, no time to check for typos right now... -- gotta run)

  • Anonymous

    3/22/2010 9:10:18 PM |

    Dr. Davis. You say Nattokinase supplementation is a scam? Someone with your professional credentials ought to be a little more informed on the subject as well as sensitive to the needs of others.

    Capsules, pills and tablets can't be made to protect their contents in the stomach? Have you ever herd of enteric coated, time release, or sustained release meds and supplements?

    You've personally witnessed bleed out and death that you attribute to use of nattokinase and other such enzymes. Is this due to product abuse by users? Was it because of a combination of other medical factors resulting in complications? Where is the documentation of your findings? Where is the open mindedness and balance in your personal and professional position? I see scare tactics and ignorance in a condecending spirit.

    I have had 5 DVT's and 3 PE's in recent years with no diagnosis for the cause. I have been seen by dozens of doctors, had 4 trips to the emergency room, and racked up enough medical bills to put me in bankruptcy. I've been on a steady diet of low dose rat poisin (warfarin) and am reminded to flex my calves when standing or sitting. Yes, I just have to live with it, I'm told.

    What ar you going to do for me? You all had your shot. I'm saying to you - Don't be afraid to learn something new or investgate the untraditional. Do your homework first. Then maybe there will be more to your position on this subject than emotional reasoning and unsubstantiated events.

    To all those out there exploring the new wave of enzyme therapies, I say carry on. It is an amazing science and a very viable alternative.

  • Anonymous

    3/26/2010 5:28:54 PM |

    Dr. Davis, I am seriously disappointed in your comments that nattokinase is a scam.  You seem to be very misinformed or have not done your research.

    Any scam you mention does not have to do with Nattokinase itself but the way supplement companies are marketing NK as well as how they are packaging and encapsulating NK with other ingredients to make it seem like a multivitamin.  The supplement versions of NK are diluted considerably by supplement companies. I know this first hand as I have personally seen and taken probably the most purest and concentrated form of NK available.

    "Clot develops when heart attack occurs. It makes no sense to take a lytic agent that dissolves clotes continuously. Unless I am missing something here, nattokinase remains squarely in the nonsense column."

    You are definitely misinformed.  It's really sad that you feel this way seeing that many people will now be misinformed about the truth of NK and how it improves human health.  NK does not have to be taken as a hard capsule.  It does survive stomach acid. That being said, I can understand that you may not have access to all of the information or the pure form of Nattokinase as it is not readily available anywhere other than Japan and China.

    I would suggest that you refrain from calling NK a scam until you yourself have definitive proof.  Otherwise your opinion remains squarely in the nonsense-column.

  • Dr. Dawn

    3/29/2010 1:35:15 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
    This reminds me of the initial skepticism about fish oil--you reference it as if it was always accepted and promoted in the medical community. Now there is Lovasa-- $200/mo. vs. $20/mo. for fish oil. (I actually recommend Krill oil.)
    Enzymes, when used against inflammation instead of digestive purposes, are taken on an empty stomach and are  absorbed into the blood stream. The thrombolytic effect is not sudden and works peripheral to central on the clot, posing no risk of embolism. I introduced fish oil to the cardiology department at  University Hospital (Michigan) in 1993 following a patient's M.I.-- at that time they hadn't heard of using omega 3s, but at least they were open to functional foods, eventually making fish oil part of their cardiac protocol. The early days of introducing most functional foods to the medical community is like turning around a locomotive-- until the pharmaceutical companies find a way to patent them-- we can thank them for the high cost of "sickness mgt" instead of health care. Coumadin counters K2, so while people have been guided to prevent clots (it does not break down clots, only prevents new ones and enlargement of those  established), they've also been engineering hypertension and atherosclerosis in their bodies--not to mention the organ repercussions of Coumadin. Humility in the medical community with respect to historical wisdom would be a refreshing change-- and might have gone a long way to prevent the gradual replacement of health care with our costly system of "sickness management", as well as the recent push for a governmental takeover plan. Research continues: Nutrition Research. Volume 29, Issue 3, March 2009, Pages 190-196. The older article by Milner explains the clotting mechanism for laymen. Research shows that Nattokinase can suppress thickening of the intima following damage to the inside of a blood vessel. Nutrition. 2003 Mar;19(3):261-4
    Remember, many doctors have created many health problems over the years   because they made assumptions..... After all, K2 is in egg yolks and helps calcium reach the bones instead of depositing in arteries-- yet for years doctors advised patients to avoid eggs if they had cardiovascular disease-- more mythology debunked. Those same eggs provide choline, key to brain, liver, and who-knows-what-else. Tanning (sun or bed) has been decried, yet Hollick showed women who tan regularly have 25% higher bone density--and not the inferior bone resulting from so-called osteoporosis drugs-- check out the NY Times article from March 25th.   Vitamin D3 deficiency, due to seriously flawed advice, has contributed to untold diseases-- diabetes, MS, cardiovascular disease,  breast, prostate, and colon cancer--to name just a few. Let's remain humble about non-drug methods and not attribute  characteristics and side effects of synthetic pharmaceutical drugs to functional foods. We are still identifying the beneficial synergistic relationships within these foods that do not exist in synthetic, isolated chemical constituents of drugs.

  • Inquisitive

    4/7/2010 5:00:46 PM |

    I am a 49 year old white male with a high stress life.  I am overweight, have sleep apnea, an asymptomatic irregular heartbeat, bouts with depression and anxiety (for which I was prescribed Prozac), supposedly "pre-diabetic" and I have, what a shock, high blood pressure.  I am interested in the potential benefits of Nattokinase as a possible enhancement to or replacement for the precription meds I am taking for hypertension.  I have recently started taking some other supplements such as Vitamins D3, K2, Fish Oil, Resveratrol, CoQ10 etc.  Does anyone out there with an open mind and the intellect to back it up have any personal experience, reccomendations or advice for me?  Please respond if so!  Thank you!  I am intelligent and I spend lots of time reading and researching from various sources on the internet and frankly, I just don't know who to believe anymore.  I just want to be healthier!

  • Anonymous

    4/9/2010 6:15:01 AM |

    I just want to chime in here - I have been on nattokinase for the last 8 years.
    Before that, I was on Coumadin for over two years for a clot that went all the way from my calf to my belly button. I have Factor V Leiden, a genetic clotting condition.
    While on Coumadin, I had numerous side effects, including Post Phlebitic Syndrome (PPS).
    Since starting on nattokinase, I have not been bothered with ANY of the side effects I had with Coumadin. No more Ultram for PPS, no more worrying about (not) eating my greens, no more INRs - NOTHING! My blood pressure is a healthy 115/75 (I am around 60y/o).

    I swear by Nattokinase, but I also know that there are many 'fakes' out there that claim to be nattokinase, but in reality have no active ingredients. Buyer beware!
    Check out reputable brands like Allergy Research, or Pure Prescriptions, or check out Dr. Holsworth, the researcher of nattokinase. Contact him for other reputable brands.

  • madanthony

    4/10/2010 7:04:09 PM |

    There ARE studies showing oral nattokinase IS fibrinolytic (so obviously was absorbed despite stomach acid!).  Here's one.  (I am limitted by your size restrictions)

    Sumi, H. et al. "Enhancement of the fibrinolytic activity in plasma by oral administration of nattokinase." Acta haematol 1990, 84: 139-43.
    Abstract
    The existence of a potent fibrinolytic enzyme (nattokinase, NK) in the traditional fermented food called 'natto', was reported by us previously. It was confirmed that oral administration of NK (or natto) produced a mild and frequent enhancement of the fibrinolytic activity in the plasma, as indicated by the fibrinolytic parameters, and the production of tissue plasminogen activator. NK capsules were also administered orally to dogs with experimentally induced thrombosis, and lysis of the thrombi was observed by angiography. The results obtained suggest that NK represents a possible drug for use not only in the treatment of embolism but also in the prevention of the disease, since NK has a proven safety and can be massproduced.

  • Ara

    4/13/2010 6:37:58 PM |

    So if nattokinnasse works for you. You are dismissed as a crazy -fanatic- person. So here I'm another "fanatic" person that has been taking fibrovan for over a year. My horrendous pelvic (menstrual) pain has improved more than half.
    So I guess it is over 12 months of the placebo effect.
    I read somewhere: First they ignore you then the ridicule you and finally they join you!
    Thank you Dr for at least not deleting the "freaks" posts.
    Anna

  • Anonymous

    4/25/2010 2:14:52 PM |

    I am 54 years old and have suffered from multiple fibroids and dangerous haeavy non-stop bleeding with clots in excess of 1 oz each. I started bleeding last July and by November 15 was close to hemmoraging. I was dangerously anemic for months. They wanted to give me a transfusion in the ER but I refused. I ended up with 10 days of fibrovera which did little except the clots decreased in size. My obgyn wanted to do a hysterectomy but I said no. He gave me 14 days more of fibrovera. Still bleeding I went online and ordered Fibrovan. I had previously taken a fibrinolytic mix with a lot of improvement but had stopped due to feeling better and the cost. After a week on Fibrovan I stopped bleeding for 4 months. I am now having  light manageable flow and will continue the Fibrovan. I would not be able to function otherwise. There are many more testimnials of the help it has been to other women who did not want to be cut on.
    Gail age 54 Texas

  • Tom

    4/25/2010 7:32:17 PM |

    That is ridiculous. Fibroids have nothing to do with fibrin, the words just sound similar. Nor would a purported fibrinolytic help to reduce uterine bleeding. In fact, if it did have fibrinolytic properties, it would increase bleeding.

    The makers of fibrovan and fibrovera (which are both practically identical) both make the absurd claim that nattokinase reduces fibroid size. Fibroids are a benign tumor and are effected by hormone levels. It is absurd to add the unsupported claim that nattokinase is able to shrink tumors and reduce bleeding because this would contradict the other unsupported claims made by pronattokinase commenters.


    It is shameful that supplement manufactures will create entire product lines simply because fibroid sounds like fibrin. I suggest we name this new fake medicine Homonymopathy.

  • Anonymous

    5/17/2010 2:56:11 AM |

    Nattokinase worked for me and I am living proof via ultrasounds.  Wake up folks!  If conventional medicine is so blasted great, then why are there currently mass tort actions regarding Avandia, Bextra, Vioxx, pain pumps used after shoulder surgery, Fleet's Phosphosoda used as a prep before colonoscopies that has put a number of people across our nation in renal failure requiring dialysis and transplants, nephrogenic fibrosing dermopathy as a result of gadolinium used for MRIs, etc., etc., etc.  I could go on and list at least 50 actions rights now for products made by Big Pharma and pushed by those who call themselve doctors (aka glorified drug pushers).  Our system is so broken, I wouldn't trust it to take care of a fruitfly!

  • Tom

    5/18/2010 9:39:02 AM |

    Supplements are just big pharm unregulated. That really turned out well for Europe and thalidomide.

    Also, natural does not equal non toxic. I'm acquainted with a patient who absolutely destroyed his liver on vitamin A and E to the point where he required a transplant.

  • ron

    5/18/2010 12:51:42 PM |

    I had bypass surgery 3 years ago after a heart attack. Five bypass grafts were performed. A year ago, I had another heart attack, the cause as indicated on the angiogram was that my body rejected the sutures used. Two of the bypass grafts fell off, and the others are full of crap at the suture that my body has deposited to counter what it feels is a foreign object. The point of this is that if a bypass is necessary, make sure the sutures used are compatible to your body and will not be rejected. there are several suture materials available from silk to propylene and many others. Question if they will work for you.
    All the best
    RB

  • Dave

    5/21/2010 2:51:10 AM |

    Dr. Davis and Tom,

    Fact: Clinical trials support the fact that oral NK mildly, but significantly, increases fibrnolytic activity in humans. I've personally witnessed this with myself.

    Fact: Clinical trials support the fact that NK lowers BP. I've personally witnessed this myself.

    Fact: Nattokinase lowers CRP levels. I've personally witnessed this myself.

    I realize that if any protease enzyme were directly injected into our blood stream, it would turn our veins and arteries into mush. Obviously, very little oral NK is absorbed, but enough to have an affect.

  • Anonymous

    6/1/2010 6:50:30 PM |

    Does anyone know if NK can be helpful in case of Protein C deficiency?
    I have 2 sons who have been diagnosed with 0.62 ratio of Protein C deficiency (genetically predisposed). It should read 0.70 to be normal range.

    In their case, they have to take Coumadin 10mg for life. Trying to avoid by all means.

    Please help.

  • Anonymous

    6/5/2010 11:38:56 AM |

    While barefoot on a ladder I slipped and fell to the next metal step. By the next day the entire arch of my foot was a deep purple with bruise. As witnessed in the office I showed my bruise, ate 100gm of fermented natto food and we watched as the next two days the bruise had cleared entirely. The only remnant was a small wound under the skin that was the source of the bruise/bleeding. It healed in what I would consider a normal period of time.

    Think of all the people on coumadin that would not be walking around with bruised arms or legs...etc

    Someone please explain if a bruise is a form of clotting or not.

    Perhaps in this economy of forced health care the government could spend some of that money on non pharmaceutical research as it might apply to the health of its citizens from eating food.

    I make my own natto, have been eating it weekly for the last 7 years. Soy sauce makes it better so does yogurt...I now am accustomed to eating it by itself. Thank you mother nature.

    A 52 year old believer.

  • Anonymous

    6/5/2010 11:57:24 AM |

    Same 52 year old believer from recent post.

    My wife was hit by an automobile while on her bicycle very recently. The ER sent her home with clean X-Rays for broken bones but advise on future possibility of finding damaged ligaments and or tendons in her leg where the bike frame contacted her.

    The folks at the ER said that day two would have more pain but day three would be the worse. They also advised that she should expect bruising on here entire leg area along with other areas that she was not aware of yet. (she used her arms when falling to protect her head)

    Within a few hours the large area of a bruise was showing. Again, roughly 100g of natto-the food, and the bruising has cleared the same evening. We are on day 4 and still no bruises. We can see an area under the skin where the tissue has been injured, perhaps a tear.....we are not medically trained. Her healing is progressing ahead of schedule as day two and three where better than day one.
    She was struck hard enough for the SUV to have a flat tire from the bicycle.
    I share these experiences to help show that...yes, there is an active ingredient in the natto and yes it gets past the stomach and does have an effect, if only in clearing a bruised area of the body.
    When I have a paper cut or small skin cut the blood is bright red, like I remember when I was very young. The blood also seems to be thinner but will coagulate easily when I apply pressure...as I always have done pre-natto. This from an ongoing, once a week usage.

  • Anonymous

    7/15/2010 4:36:01 PM |

    If what you say is true about stomache acid, then Plavix does not work either, nor does Asprin.

  • Anonymous

    7/17/2010 6:29:52 AM |

    1. If nattokinase worked as argued, then it should increase bruising, not decrease it.

    2. Plavix and asprin are both not enzymes.

  • Anonymous

    7/28/2010 5:09:52 AM |

    from pubmed.gov

    "Effects of nattokinase on blood pressure: a randomized, controlled trial.

    Kim JY, Gum SN, Paik JK, Lim HH, Kim KC, Ogasawara K, Inoue K, Park S, Jang Y, Lee JH.

    Yonsei University Research Institute of Science for Aging, Department of Food and Nutrition, College of Human Ecology, Yonsei University, and Department of Family Medicine, Mizmedi Hospital, Seoul, Korea.
    Abstract

    The objective of this study was to examine the effects of nattokinase supplementation on blood pressure in subjects with pre-hypertension or stage 1 hypertension. In a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, 86 participants ranging from 20 to 80 years of age with an initial untreated systolic blood pressure (SBP) of 130 to 159 mmHg received nattokinase (2,000 FU/capsule) or a placebo capsule for 8 weeks. Seventy-three subjects completed the protocol. Compared with the control group, the net changes in SBP and diastolic blood pressure (DBP) were -5.55 mmHg (95% confidence interval [CI], -10.5 to -0.57 mmHg; p<0.05) and -2.84 mmHg (CI, -5.33 to -0.33 mmHg; p<0.05), respectively, after the 8-week intervention. The corresponding net change in renin activity was -1.17 ng/mL/h for the nattokinase group compared with the control group (p<0.05). In conclusion, nattokinase supplementation resulted in a reduction in SBP and DBP. These findings suggest that increased intake of nattokinase may play an important role in preventing and treating hypertension."

    PMID: 18971533 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

  • Robert

    8/5/2010 5:43:33 AM |

    Dr. David, check http://www.houston-enzymes.com/learn/articles/doctor-may-not-know.php which says that plant and microbe based enzymes do survive the stomach acid, it is  the animal based or pancreatic enzymes that do not. So please retract your statement on enzymes.

  • Robert

    8/5/2010 6:17:29 AM |

    The bruising anecdotes are interesting, hopefully some medical researchers will look into it. Natto the food supposedly contains vitamin K2 which helps with clotting and may help reduce additional bleeding.  It is not clear what the interplay is between Nattokinase and K2.

  • Knox

    8/7/2010 3:24:15 PM |

    Dr. Davis -
    I would be very interested in your thoughts on SOD and it's action on fibrosis.  Note the following study:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11134893

  • Anonymous

    8/8/2010 3:10:03 AM |

    I am thoroughly enjoying the debate on Nattokinase on this site, but one thing bothers me about Dr. Davis' claim that it is a scam.  Firstly, and foremost he claims that there is no way that it can survive the acidity of the stomach, even if it is enteric coated.  Secondly, he claims that it's anti-thrombolic properties are dangerous and can cause aneurysms in the brain.  I think he needs to pick a topic and stick with it.  If indeed, this product is a scam and does not survive the digestive process, then how can it be dangerous. Seems there needs to be more medically based research done on this enzyme before the word "scam" can be wholeheartedly used.

  • Anonymous

    8/10/2010 2:32:40 PM |

    I've been taking Nattokinase for 4 days now, I'm only 35 years old, but I can literally feel how it dramatically improves blood circulation in my body. The best way to prove or disprove something is to try. I have undiagnosed headaches which nobody can figure out for 13 years, I have chronic pain for 13 years daily non stop. My own theory (not supported by healthcare proffessionals) is that I had some kind on tiny aneurysm rupture or other kind of minor brain bleeding not big enough to show up in MRI but enough to somehow cause me this terrible chronic pain. It started as sudden worst headache you could possibly imagine, I almost lost consciousness. Something terrible must have happened. In any case if Nattokinase can help me it will be pretty major proof. It seems that it started to improve things already. The pain is not going away completely, but it started to disappear for like half a day ...

  • knox

    8/12/2010 4:27:33 PM |

    Anonymous from Aug 10 -

    I'm curious if you drink diet soft drinks or consume aspartame.  I used to have daily headaches and they stopped instantly when I stopped consuming aspartame.  It's a neurotoxin and it's deadly.

  • Anonymous

    8/30/2010 9:43:04 PM |

    I.m also interested into Nattokinase and fully agree with comment posted last August 10 by Anonimous:

    "... one thing bothers me about Dr. Davis' claim that [Nattokinase]is a scam. Firstly, and foremost he claims that there is no way that it can survive the acidity of the stomach, even if it is enteric coated. Secondly, he claims that it's anti-thrombolic properties are dangerous and can cause aneurysms in the brain. I think he needs to pick a topic and stick with it. If indeed, this product is a scam and does not survive the digestive process, then how can it be dangerous. Seems there needs to be more medically based research done on this enzyme before the word "scam" can be wholeheartedly used."

    Would like to know Dr.Davis answer

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 12:11:25 AM |

    Part 1
    For those who are searching for an answer to dissolving blood clots, I would love 2 share my success story.  In Oct 2009 I developed a freak blood clot after knee surgery.  I exercise almost every day and part of the regimen is cardio 5-7 days a week for 40 minutes @ a time. For a 40 year old male I was in peak condition.  My resting heart rate is excellent, blood pressure, cholesterol, weight, & BMI all perfect.  The week before my surgery I developed the H1N1 flu which put me in bed for a week and they had to push my knee surgery back.  So I went from super active to lying in bed for a week then having surgery and lying in bed again 2 recover.  Doctors tested for all diseases and genetic causes of blood clots and I had none of them.  They finally came to a conclusion that going from extreme activity to nothing could have been the only cause.  If I knew then what I know now I would have moved around more etc. but I had no clue?  I actually self diagnosed my own blood clot using web md and called my doctor.  He didn’t believe me so he said take an aspirin and come see him in the morning (3-4 days after surgery)  They put a Doppler on my leg found the blood clots & immediately rushed me to surgery to have a filter placed in my groin 2 prevent the clot from traveling 2 my heart.  They started giving me Heparin and then warfarin (coumidan) when I left the hospital.  They kept increasing my dose of warfarin since they could not get my PT level above 2 (they wanted it between 2-3) my level was 1.5-1.8.  I started getting terrible headaches, pain behind my eyes and after 6 weeks of this I developed horrible heartburn (I never was sensitive to ANY spicy food for my whole life) they wanted me to take 12mg of warfarin “rat poison” a day and I had enough.  None of my doctors wanted to discuss garlic, fish oil, or any of the other natural blood thinning methods.  They just wanted to give me one drug to cover the side effects of the other.  Since I normally eat mostly organic foods and am ultra healthy I had enough and decided to do my own research.  I read that Nattokinase would not only thin my blood, but unlike the “rat poison” it would actually dissolve the clot.  My doctor had told me that I would always have scars from blood clots and thus would need to take a baby aspirin for the rest of my life and go on warfarin whenever I had surgery in the future, because the “rat poison” only prevented future clots, but would not dissolve the clot.  So I found the best pharmaceutical grade Natto made by Allergy Research Group (I believe it is made in Japan) but was able to find in on Amazon.  I started taking 100mg a day and reduced my warfarin to 5mg & added 1 eight hour time released garlic pill.  Since my doctor could not measure my blood level (his devise only measured the amount of warfarin in my blood) I had to do this on my own and lied to my doctor about how much warfarin I was taking.  I had to judge my blood thickness by bruising and blood flow when pricked ( I know this sounds crazy but where I live I could not find a doctor that was willing to help me)  I knew that I had the filter in my leg as a back up, so that took some of the danger out of the equation.  After about a month of this I went to 200mg of Natto (one pill every 12 hours) and three eight hour time released garlic pills and stopped taking warfarin all together.  I did this for another 3 months.  PLEASE NOTE I UNDERSTAND WHAT I DID WAS DANGEROUS, SO I HOPE YOU CAN FIND A DOCTOR TO HELP WITH THIS PROCESS.
    to be continued...

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 12:12:50 AM |

    Part 1
    For those who are searching for an answer to dissolving blood clots, I would love 2 share my success story.  In Oct 2009 I developed a freak blood clot after knee surgery.  I exercise almost every day and part of the regimen is cardio 5-7 days a week for 40 minutes @ a time. For a 40 year old male I was in peak condition.  My resting heart rate is excellent, blood pressure, cholesterol, weight, & BMI all perfect.  The week before my surgery I developed the H1N1 flu which put me in bed for a week and they had to push my knee surgery back.  So I went from super active to lying in bed for a week then having surgery and lying in bed again 2 recover.  Doctors tested for all diseases and genetic causes of blood clots and I had none of them.  They finally came to a conclusion that going from extreme activity to nothing could have been the only cause.  If I knew then what I know now I would have moved around more etc. but I had no clue?  I actually self diagnosed my own blood clot using web md and called my doctor.  He didn’t believe me so he said take an aspirin and come see him in the morning (3-4 days after surgery)  They put a Doppler on my leg found the blood clots & immediately rushed me to surgery to have a filter placed in my groin 2 prevent the clot from traveling 2 my heart.  They started giving me Heparin and then warfarin (coumidan) when I left the hospital.  They kept increasing my dose of warfarin since they could not get my PT level above 2 (they wanted it between 2-3) my level was 1.5-1.8.  I started getting terrible headaches, pain behind my eyes and after 6 weeks of this I developed horrible heartburn (I never was sensitive to ANY spicy food for my whole life) they wanted me to take 12mg of warfarin “rat poison” a day and I had enough.  None of my doctors wanted to discuss garlic, fish oil, or any of the other natural blood thinning methods.  They just wanted to give me one drug to cover the side effects of the other.  Since I normally eat mostly organic foods and am ultra healthy I had enough and decided to do my own research.  I read that Nattokinase would not only thin my blood, but unlike the “rat poison” it would actually dissolve the clot.  My doctor had told me that I would always have scars from blood clots and thus would need to take a baby aspirin for the rest of my life and go on warfarin whenever I had surgery in the future, because the “rat poison” only prevented future clots, but would not dissolve the clot.  So I found the best pharmaceutical grade Natto made by Allergy Research Group (I believe it is made in Japan) but was able to find in on Amazon.  I started taking 100mg a day and reduced my warfarin to 5mg & added 1 eight hour time released garlic pill.  Since my doctor could not measure my blood level (his devise only measured the amount of warfarin in my blood) I had to do this on my own and lied to my doctor about how much warfarin I was taking.  I had to judge my blood thickness by bruising and blood flow when pricked ( I know this sounds crazy but where I live I could not find a doctor that was willing to help me)  I knew that I had the filter in my leg as a back up, so that took some of the danger out of the equation.  After about a month of this I went to 200mg of Natto (one pill every 12 hours) and three eight hour time released garlic pills and stopped taking warfarin all together.  I did this for another 3 months.  PLEASE NOTE I UNDERSTAND WHAT I DID WAS DANGEROUS, SO I HOPE YOU CAN FIND A DOCTOR TO HELP WITH THIS PROCESS.
    to be continued...

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 12:14:57 AM |

    Part 1
    For those who are searching for an answer to dissolving blood clots, I would love 2 share my success story.  In Oct 2009 I developed a freak blood clot after knee surgery.  I exercise almost every day and part of the regimen is cardio 5-7 days a week for 40 minutes @ a time. For a 40 year old male I was in peak condition.  My resting heart rate is excellent, blood pressure, cholesterol, weight, & BMI all perfect.  The week before my surgery I developed the H1N1 flu which put me in bed for a week and they had to push my knee surgery back.  So I went from super active to lying in bed for a week then having surgery and lying in bed again 2 recover.  Doctors tested for all diseases and genetic causes of blood clots and I had none of them.  They finally came to a conclusion that going from extreme activity to nothing could have been the only cause.  If I knew then what I know now I would have moved around more etc. but I had no clue?  I actually self diagnosed my own blood clot using web md and called my doctor.  He didn’t believe me so he said take an aspirin and come see him in the morning (3-4 days after surgery)  They put a Doppler on my leg found the blood clots & immediately rushed me to surgery to have a filter placed in my groin 2 prevent the clot from traveling 2 my heart.  They started giving me Heparin and then warfarin (coumidan) when I left the hospital.  They kept increasing my dose of warfarin since they could not get my PT level above 2 (they wanted it between 2-3) my level was 1.5-1.8.  I started getting terrible headaches, pain behind my eyes and after 6 weeks of this I developed horrible heartburn (I never was sensitive to ANY spicy food for my whole life) they wanted me to take 12mg of warfarin “rat poison” a day and I had enough.  None of my doctors wanted to discuss garlic, fish oil, or any of the other natural blood thinning methods.  They just wanted to give me one drug to cover the side effects of the other.  Since I normally eat mostly organic foods and am ultra healthy I had enough and decided to do my own research.  I read that Nattokinase would not only thin my blood, but unlike the “rat poison” it would actually dissolve the clot.  My doctor had told me that I would always have scars from blood clots and thus would need to take a baby aspirin for the rest of my life and go on warfarin whenever I had surgery in the future, because the “rat poison” only prevented future clots, but would not dissolve the clot.  So I found the best pharmaceutical grade Natto made by Allergy Research Group (I believe it is made in Japan) but was able to find in on Amazon.  I started taking 100mg a day and reduced my warfarin to 5mg & added 1 eight hour time released garlic pill.  Since my doctor could not measure my blood level (his devise only measured the amount of warfarin in my blood) I had to do this on my own and lied to my doctor about how much warfarin I was taking.  to be continued...

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 12:16:39 AM |

    Part 1
    For those who are searching for an answer to dissolving blood clots, I would love 2 share my success story.  In Oct 2009 I developed a freak blood clot after knee surgery.  I exercise almost every day and part of the regimen is cardio 5-7 days a week for 40 minutes @ a time. For a 40 year old male I was in peak condition.  My resting heart rate is excellent, blood pressure, cholesterol, weight, & BMI all perfect.  The week before my surgery I developed the H1N1 flu which put me in bed for a week and they had to push my knee surgery back.  So I went from super active to lying in bed for a week then having surgery and lying in bed again 2 recover.  Doctors tested for all diseases and genetic causes of blood clots and I had none of them.  They finally came to a conclusion that going from extreme activity to nothing could have been the only cause.  If I knew then what I know now I would have moved around more etc. but I had no clue?  I actually self diagnosed my own blood clot using web md and called my doctor.  He didn’t believe me so he said take an aspirin and come see him in the morning (3-4 days after surgery)  They put a Doppler on my leg found the blood clots & immediately rushed me to surgery to have a filter placed in my groin 2 prevent the clot from traveling 2 my heart.  They started giving me Heparin and then warfarin (coumidan) when I left the hospital.  They kept increasing my dose of warfarin since they could not get my PT level above 2 (they wanted it between 2-3) my level was 1.5-1.8.  I started getting terrible headaches, pain behind my eyes and after 6 weeks of this I developed horrible heartburn (I never was sensitive to ANY spicy food for my whole life) they wanted me to take 12mg of warfarin “rat poison” a day and I had enough.  None of my doctors wanted to discuss garlic, fish oil, or any of the other natural blood thinning methods.  They just wanted to give me one drug to cover the side effects of the other.  Since I normally eat mostly organic foods and am ultra healthy I had enough and decided to do my own research.  I read that Nattokinase would not only thin my blood, but unlike the “rat poison” it would actually dissolve the clot.  My doctor had told me that I would always have scars from blood clots and thus would need to take a baby aspirin for the rest of my life and go on warfarin whenever I had surgery in the future, because the “rat poison” only prevented future clots, but would not dissolve the clot.  So I found the best pharmaceutical grade Natto made by Allergy Research Group (I believe it is made in Japan) but was able to find in on Amazon.
    to be continued...

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 12:18:58 AM |

    Part 1
    For those who are searching for an answer to dissolving blood clots, I would love 2 share my success story.  In Oct 2009 I developed a freak blood clot after knee surgery.  I exercise almost every day and part of the regimen is cardio 5-7 days a week for 40 minutes @ a time. For a 40 year old male I was in peak condition.  My resting heart rate is excellent, blood pressure, cholesterol, weight, & BMI all perfect.  The week before my surgery I developed the H1N1 flu which put me in bed for a week and they had to push my knee surgery back.  So I went from super active to lying in bed for a week then having surgery and lying in bed again 2 recover.  Doctors tested for all diseases and genetic causes of blood clots and I had none of them.  They finally came to a conclusion that going from extreme activity to nothing could have been the only cause.  If I knew then what I know now I would have moved around more etc. but I had no clue?  I actually self diagnosed my own blood clot using web md and called my doctor.  He didn’t believe me so he said take an aspirin and come see him in the morning (3-4 days after surgery)  They put a Doppler on my leg found the blood clots & immediately rushed me to surgery to have a filter placed in my groin 2 prevent the clot from traveling 2 my heart.  They started giving me Heparin and then warfarin (coumidan) when I left the hospital.  They kept increasing my dose of warfarin since they could not get my PT level above 2 (they wanted it between 2-3) my level was 1.5-1.8.  I started getting terrible headaches, pain behind my eyes and after 6 weeks of this I developed horrible heartburn (I never was sensitive to ANY spicy food for my whole life) they wanted me to take 12mg of warfarin “rat poison” a day and I had enough.  None of my doctors wanted to discuss garlic, fish oil, or any of the other natural blood thinning methods.  They just wanted to give me one drug to cover the side effects of the other.  Since I normally eat mostly organic foods and am ultra healthy I had enough and decided to do my own research.
    to be continued...

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 12:24:06 AM |

    PART 2 Sorry for multiple post the server was not working correctly...

    At the 6 month mark my doctor tested my blood clotting abilities and cleared me to stop taking Warfarin (not knowing I had been off it for a couple of months)  two weeks ago my doctor wanted me to get another Doppler on my leg to see how the blood clot scaring looked as I was going to have another surgery on the same knee (he wanted a before and after picture to see if any further clotting would cling to the scar tissue) The Doppler tech looked up and down my entire leg and could not find ANY evidence I ever had a blood clot.  Naturally I was vindicated and wanted to share my success story with my fellow bloggers that are tired of being pumped full of drugs so that big Pharma can make billions of dollars addicting us to pills.  I know traditional medicine needs to be used in some cases, but I am happy the blood thinning and clot removal can be done naturally.  Now I need to find a natural way to heal the heartburn that has been a part of my life, thanks to the “rat poison” my doctor forced down my throat.

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 12:25:51 AM |

    Part 3

    ... Sorry Dr. Davis, but I am LIVING PROOF that you are wrong.

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 1:52:07 AM |

    The weight of the anecdotal evidence favors natto and nattokinase.  How can Dr. Davis continue to deny it?  To the most recent courageous person who posted in 3 installments, more power to you.  you give us all courage.

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 1:55:45 AM |

    Part 2 (sorry for the multiple posts but the server was having problem.)

    At the 6 month mark my doctor tested my blood clotting abilities and cleared me to stop taking Warfarin (not knowing I had been off it for a couple of months)  two weeks ago my doctor wanted me to get another Doppler on my leg to see how the blood clot scaring looked as I was going to have another surgery on the same knee (he wanted a before and after picture to see if any further clotting would cling to the scar tissue) The Doppler tech looked up and down my entire leg and could not find ANY evidence I ever had a blood clot.  Naturally I was vindicated and wanted to share my success story with my fellow bloggers that are tired of being pumped full of drugs so that big Pharma can make billions of dollars addicting us to pills.  I know traditional medicine needs to be used in some cases, but I am happy the blood thinning and clot removal can be done naturally.  Now I need to find a natural way to heal the heartburn that has been a part of my life, thanks to the “rat poison” my doctor forced down my throat.
    2 b continued...closing statement

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 3:48:34 AM |

    Part 4 - I need to add something to my story.  When I used the word Natto in my story, I was referring to Nattokinase.  I should have used NK for a shorten version as Natto is obviously a different form. Sorry for that confusion and the fact that my posts came separately, but I wanted to explain my whole story to help others that are tired of watching our health and this world be destroyed by chemicals and greed.  

    I really think the United states will never have an honest government until they stop allowing Big Pharma, Oil companies, etc. to fund the campaigns of our politicians.  There should be no political parties only Americans that want to protect our health & environment.  Also the only religion that should be affiliated with government is the freedom to practice it.  Watching people treat others badly in the name of their God is probable what drives people to not believe in any God.  

    Peace to you all and good healthSmile

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 12:27:10 PM |

    Thanks, Anonymous, for the complete five-part story.  I agree with you on all points. I think we like-minded people need to band together to try to impact the upcoming election.  Any ideas?

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 3:03:58 PM |

    Thanks for taking interest in my Nattokinase story (i wish I could have used just one post, but it was too long)and it is great to hear others with  a similar mindset.  Unfortunately, I'm really not sure any vote will matter until we have political reform in this country.  It is laughable to think any politician in any party is going to vote for political reform, when you have separate parties that are both controlled by corporations (Big Pharma, Oil companies, Telecommunication,etc.) funding their campaigns.  The only answer I can see is that you have a number of candidates with NO party affiliation that are not allowed to advertise.  A government political site could have a web page for each qualified candidate (where they answer a uniform set of questions so citizens know the type of policies they support) & TV networks could be forced to donate one commercial for each candidate.  NO special interest, NO personal money could be used.  The small cost to set up a webpage would have to come out of our taxes so that it is kept none bias. I know my idea may sound strange, but without political reform our votes are really just a hope that the persons we put in office will not be influenced by the people funding the ridiculous spending they use to advertise themselves and that is not going to happen.

    Take careSmile

  • Anonymous

    9/1/2010 5:59:03 PM |

    I like the idea of a non-partisan, beyond-the-2-party-deadlock  website.  I see no movement toward a real solution to our problems.  On Diane Rehm's show this morning, I heard about something I knew had to exist -- the BigPharma campaign to take control of medical marijuana, including influencing legislation that is outlawing grow-your-own stuff. The per-capita prescription drug use in the US is 11+, while in the poorest states, it's as high as 17.  We are fat, unhealthy and uninformed, so much so that Fox leads viewership.  Amazing that my country could deteriorate so fast. Take a look at this story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38727236/ns/health-forbescom

  • Anonymous

    9/2/2010 9:06:38 PM |

    One thing bothers me. FDA does not approve NK as a drug since it has not passed the required tests (clinical trials). On the other hand it is well known that going through the whole process of a certified clinical trial is lenghty and quite costly: only big farmaceutical industries could do it, as a long term investment. Since NK is a natural product, the returns out of such investment would represent for that company a net loss. So, there appear to be no solutions, other  than the organization of interested groups exchanging ideas and information in discussions, blogs [as the present one], ets., with moderators competent and sensible to the issues involved.  This in practice corresponds to a 'natural clinical trial' procedure. It may be objected that it might produce some increscious failures. But this is the case also among people accepting to take part in a certified trial. After all, what counts is the overall general outcome.

  • Anonymous

    9/4/2010 10:33:59 AM |

    Looks like Dr. Davis has been schooled here.  NK wins.

  • Anonymous

    9/22/2010 6:21:46 AM |

    Thanks for your 5 part story.  Hope you come back again to see this post.  It may sound counter-intuitive, but taking one tablespoon of Apple Cider Vinegar will get rid of your heartburn almost immediately.  People with heartburn actually need MORE acid in their stomachs.  Good luck.

  • Anonymous

    10/8/2010 1:40:01 PM |

    In the web several people claim urotherapy (drinking your own urine) is a panacea for a number of ailments (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_therapy ). Scientific literature does not back this claim but agrees that generally this practice is not harmful (97% of urine is water, it is sterile, and its components come out from a filtering process balancing our blood constituents). The low fraction of urea in it, which in large quantities is toxic, has no adverse effect.
    One of the components of urine is urokinase, which is a potent fibrinolytic. This "natural", costless therapy could represent a safe (since merely enhancing an existing physiological process) alternative to nattokinase. At least for those who claim its validity, disregarding Dr. Davis' opinion that it would be destroyed by the acidity of the stomach.
    I practice urotherapy with good results (better digestion, better sleep, no discomfort whatsoever).
    It should be avoided in certain circumstances (see reference above).

  • Anonymous

    10/15/2010 5:54:48 AM |

    I am so glad I found this thread. I have found in life that the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. I am going to try nattokinase. I think nattokinase probably works at least some of the time, probably because if taken properly, SOME of it does survive. But as somebody noted earlier, I also believe some of these people had a severe vitamin K deficiency which was really the problem. Also, I am going to get off of anything that is a blood thinner like Ginkgo, aspirin or anything else and I'm not going to exceed 2,000 FUs a day. The bottom line is, there are too many people claiming to does work and not enough people dying from any adverse effects to keep me from not at least approaching it with caution.

  • Anonymous

    10/30/2010 5:48:32 AM |

    Thanks for the apple cider vinegar suggestion,  I will give it a trySmile  

    Update on my Nattokinase success story;  I had another doppler done on my leg post ACL surgey and all is clearSmile  The Doppler Tech was amazed when he saw the before and after pictures and had me write down the name of my supplement.  He had NEVER seen blood clots completely disappear like the ones in my leg. It feels good 2 prove Dr. Davis WRONG.

  • Anonymous

    10/31/2010 7:04:14 AM |

    Dear Dr. Davis,

    I have read these comments and can tell you from personal experience that Natto is a much safer way to keep blood from becoming sticky and clotting than thinning the blood with strong pharmaceuticals like Coumadin (Warfarin).

    My Dad had heart surgery and a complication that almost killed him post-operatively - a blood clot that traveled to his lung. Thank God, my Mom's intuition and his attentive Heart Specialist for finding it finally.

    Heparin was used for that intense situation. Then he was to go on Coumadin for 6 months.  After 1 month he started to experience blood blotches all over his body after a shower.

    Something was clearly happening to his blood that was not healthy or normal from the medicine - Not to mention having to go for Blood Tests every 3 weeks to see that it's not TOO thin and Not being able to ever eat healthy quantities of Green foods that build the bodies immune and other systems.

    The doctor's took him off of the Coumadin after several months at our  request and put him on daily aspirin - also to thin the blood and prevent future clots.

    It took him almost a full year of being Coumadin free for his post-shower blood splotches to clear up.

    Ten years later, he developed two small clots in his leg below the knee. The doctor wanted to start up a Coumadin again even though my Dad could not tolerate it.

    He warned us the clots could break off and travel at any time. We saw an MD who was also an ND and well versed. He recommended Nattokinase.

    We used it for 3 month and the MRI showed the clots were stationary. We upgraded to Boluoke Lumbrokinase (Many times more effective) and it had been two years and he is healthy.

    No new clots. No aspirin (since it may conflict with Natto or Lumbro). We are down to 1 tablet a day for maintenance with other natural blood thinners like Fish Oil.

    When he skips the Lumbrokinase, he will get leg cramps from the PAD. When he takes it - there is a marked difference.

    Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase are not miracle cures. But they are not derived from what was intended to be a Poision (Coumadin). The liklihood of a deadly side-effect is slim as they are naturally derived and have been used by many people for a number of years in Japan, China and other countries.


    My Dad can eat healthy green vegetables and drink green drinks. People on Coumadin can't and fear they will die without it. He takes the Lumbrokinase (or Natto if we run out of it) in a dose the ND and research has helped us determine works for his condition.

    He doesn't have to have his blood drawn every three weeks. And there are not long-term side effects that we have seen for the past two years.

    In conclusion, with Nattokinase and Lumbrokinase is a viable alternative to medicines that have immediate and possibly serious long term negative effects - even with the positive effects they are prescribed for.

    All I can tell you is that my Dad has a better quality of life  - and isn't that what we see a Doctor for to begin with?

  • Anonymous

    10/31/2010 7:14:50 AM |

    Dr. Davis,

    My Dad has been on Nattokinase, and then Boluoke Lumbrokinase for more than 2 years in response to two small blood clots below his kneee.

    He could not tolerate Coumadin - he had it more than fifteen years ago for a blood clot after heart surgery.  It gave him blood splotches all over his body after showering. He was only on it for 2 months. Instead he was on low dose aspirin and we saw an MD who is also an ND for a strong antioxidant and heart health program.

    We decided against the Coumadin and opted for the Nattokinase (3x day). The MRI showed the clots stayed the same size or were slightly smaller after 3 months. No new clots. We upgraded to Boluoke Lumbrokinase (3x day).

    It has been 2 years and no further clots. We are down to 1x a day on the Lumbrokinase.

    My Dad feels great, can eat greens make healthy green drinks and doesn't need to go for a blood test every 3 weeks for Coumadin.  If he skips the Lumbro, he will get a cramp in his legs from PAD - noticeable difference.

    Quality of Life is what it is about for my Dad. We've been through the surgery, drugs and side-effects.  

    With solid health research, consulting an experienced MD/ND and determination to find a solution that is not a long-term use of a strong pharmaceutical drug, we have a healthy program.

    Natto and Lumbro are not miracle cures. But they are giving my Dad the quality of life in his older years he could never have with the long term use of potent medications that interfere with the body's natural processes rather than work with it to strengthen it.

  • Anonymous

    10/31/2010 9:19:57 PM |

    Dr Davis:  What are your thoughts on enzymes such as Wobenzymor other enzyme products such as bromelein for myalgia pain?

  • buy jeans

    11/2/2010 7:42:31 PM |

    I have read his research. I stand by my opinion: Nattokinase is a scam. It is an utterly ridiculous notion that anyone should take oral thrombolytic agents to "prevent blood clots". Thrombolysis is a dangerous strategy, even if it worked in humans by the oral route. An agent that, if it worked, poses serious potential for severe side effects and death needs to be tested thoroughly first. It is plain idiocy to use this agent. It is not fish oil, it is not a vitamin, it is something entirely different that has no basis for use as a preventive. You're throwing your money away.

  • Bpb

    11/3/2010 11:51:49 AM |

    I posted a lengthy comment on November 1, where is it?  If you are going to have free speech then have it. If the moderator is going to choose what get's posted then let's bring back Hitler and burn all the books

  • xanax

    11/7/2010 1:34:10 PM |

    Problem is that it's even nuttier to be taking warfarin chronically, considering it's _known_ interaction with vitamin K

  • Anonymous

    11/7/2010 6:32:53 PM |

    The whole point of warfarin is in it's interaction with vitamin K, that is how it works. Also, warfarin is a nearly identical synthetic derivative of a naturally occuring myotoxin called dicoumarin, so warfarin is about as natural as most supplements being promoted as such. If you were really concerned, you could get the all natural version, dicoumarin.


    Warfarin is nasty stuff, which is why doctors carefully weigh the risks versus the benefits of it.


    If you only believe in testimonial evidence given on this blog by commenters, you can still prove to yourself nattokinase is a scam because there are people here shilling it here claiming it helped them clot as well as bust clots.

  • ardi

    11/11/2010 4:36:36 AM |

    You recommend vitamin K2 for people with heart disease because of its property to slow or reverse the process of calcification of the arteries.  However, vitamin K2 promotes the ability of blood to clot, which is especially dangerous for people with heart disease.  
    I am confused by this contradiction.

  • Anonymous

    11/27/2010 12:29:14 AM |

    Does he work for the pharma industry? Doctors are trained to prescribe drugs. Patients have become used to Placebo treatments. Hey! it's a win-win situation. For 5+ years, I worked for Pfizer in Groton, Connecticut and I have been deeply involved with their marketing strategies. Even if Natto were to work, or works, they will never allow it to be considered safe to use, unless regulated by the Pharma industry. Too much money to be lost here. Yes. This is the truth. Work in a pharma establishment, get involved with their tactics and assess yourself. The whole industry is like Amway (no doubt, there are absolute good things this industry has brought for humanity though). Food for thought - get the book "The Encyclopedia of Medical Breakthroughs and Forbidden Treatments" http://cancerdefeated.com/DIA/ or just Google it.

  • jack

    12/19/2010 11:21:25 PM |

    I don't see the answer to the question posted on November 10 ( i think) which said, You recommend vitamin K2 for people with heart disease because of its property to slow or reverse the process of calcification of the arteries. However, vitamin K2 promotes the ability of blood to clot, which is especially dangerous for people with heart disease.
    I am confused by this contradiction.

    I am lookin for the same answer.
    Thank you

  • jack

    12/19/2010 11:22:18 PM |

    You recommend vitamin K2 for people with heart disease because of its property to slow or reverse the process of calcification of the arteries. However, vitamin K2 promotes the ability of blood to clot, which is especially dangerous for people with heart disease.
    I am confused by this contradiction.

  • Anonymous

    12/20/2010 4:28:57 PM |

    I have read the 'for'/'against' arguments about using Nattokinase with interest. I was looking for some guidance on using this product, but instead have uncovered a 'minefield' of claim and counter-claim. Just who can you believe? Well, history is littered with disasters brought about by so-called 'safe' drugs, developed by the big pharmaceutical companies. So although, clinical trials do need to be carried out, they offer no guarantee of 100% safety or, the prevention of possible side-effects. I am also sceptical of anyone who dismisses something so readily. Keeping an open mind until proven otherwise seems a much more sensible approach, especially with so much positive anecdotal evidence being posted. There is much about the human body that even the most eminent MD does not fully understand. So discrediting Nattokinase without this complete knowledge is, at best foolish. Most people are simply looking for help at a time of concern over their health. Please remember this all you doctors out there and don't ridicule something until you know for sure. And, unless I've missed something - you don't!

  • Dr. William Davis

    12/21/2010 1:04:41 PM |

    Jack--

    K2 NORMALIZES clotting, it does NOT cause it.


    Anon-

    My thinking does not change on nattokinase. It still remains foolhardy to believe that, based on marketing claims and the flimsiest of evidence, that you would chance taking a "supplement" for a potentially life-threatening condition. It's not that I love the drugs; it's I like not dying to enrich some foolish supplement manufacturer who makes claims without evidence.

  • Harold

    12/26/2010 10:34:46 PM |

    All foods, (excepting undigestible minerals) are composed of CHO or carbohydrates, including protein which differs by carboxyl minerals in the CHO chain. So it was interesting that you point out no proteins nor enzymes pass through the intestine into the blood.

    However, breaking down nattokinase to its amino acids does provide the blocks to rebuild serine protease.

    "Serine proteases are inhibited by a diverse group of inhibitors, including synthetic chemical inhibitors for research or therapeutic purposes, and also natural proteinaceous inhibitors. One family of natural inhibitors called "serpins" (abbreviated from serine protease inhibitors) can form a covalent bond with the serine protease, inhibiting its function. The best-studied serpins are antithrombin and alpha 1-antitrypsin, studied for their role in coagulation/thrombosis and emphysema/A1AT, respectively. "
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serine_protease

    It's necessary to eat foods or the enzymes or proteins that can provide the amono acid materials to form enzymes the body uses for repair. The wonder is what other foods could offer the same as natto.

    If the argument is that no proteins or enzymes pass digestion, then it might be assumed that people are wasting time eating them, so fats and sugars are needed.

  • Anonymous

    1/1/2011 12:34:35 AM |

    I'm sure the FDA's sperm finds its way to that nice shiny skin of yours, so why wouldn't nattokinase do the same.

  • Anonymous

    1/11/2011 3:04:46 AM |

    I am done taking Warfarin. I do not want osteoporosis and am using Now Foods Natto-100mg,120 veg cap.

    I feel better than I did on the warfarin. My periods are much better and I do not have the clutching feeling in my chest that I had after being diagnosed with bi-lateral pulmonary embolisms.

    Thank God for Natto. Please research it more. It works.

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2011 5:35:04 AM |

    I had started taking vitamin K2 and notice that my bones are getting stronger (osteopenia) especially my jaw so less problems with my teeth.

    Secondly, I had some "spider veins" popping out on my legs (not severe) and they seem to have disappeared.

    Can someone out there tell me what this phenomena is? I knew about Vit K2 and bones, but spider veins??

  • Anonymous

    1/18/2011 3:31:59 PM |

    Dr. William Davis is either a narrow minded "know-it-all" or he (like many others in his profession) is having his pocket filled with blood money via Big Pharma.  

    I have documented my success story in my several part post and wanted to return to this forum to encourage others that there is hope beyond the rat poison known as Warfarin.  Nattokinase not only prevented further blood clots, but much to my Doctor & his Doppler Tech’s surprise, it COMPLETELY removed the blood clot without even a trace or scar.

    So Dr. Big Pharma can continue showing it’s true colors and bad mouth Nattokinase, & doctors can use medical terms to describe why it’s not possible for this substance to work and those who were willing to risk using a natural alternative to help with blood clots (LIKE MYSELF) can continue 2 prove how ignorant and WRONG they are.

    I will try to check back from time to time and continue my blood clot free success story.

    Good luck to the true believersSmile

  • Anonymous

    1/20/2011 6:45:33 AM |

    My mother who has been chronically ill and misgidanosed for decades began taking nattokinase as well as bolouke, rottozyme (spelling)..and several other supplements in October 2010 under the care of a naturopath physician.  The first in two decades she is showing improvement on multi-system levels!  I find it UTTERLY RIDICULOUS that dr's prescribe dangerous immune suppresents such as Remicade, Enbryl, my mothers were $1200 per pop, 2 hour infusion into her elbow that caused permanent nerve damage, dr's ignoring warning signes that are bioligic and made from mouse and hamster cell protiens, caused lesions in her brain and spinal, and that she was given Celebrex for more than a decade that was black box warned in 2001 and multiple lawsuits for causing strokes.  The proof is in the pudding for me.  My mother's health is improving, she is now walking, talking, showing interest, absolutly no negative side effects.

  • Anonymous

    1/20/2011 7:18:00 AM |

    And, Utterly ridiculous that most people are brainwashed to question natural, mother nature provided us with what we need...and brainwashed to totally trust taking man made synthetic chemicals and invasive surgeries as the only option, thinking them as superior & the only way.  My mother was too frail to endure any more synthetic chemicals that nearly killed her.  Wish I would have known about many of these  alternatives 20 years ago.  Another example, Artemisinin...been around for thousands of years, used to treat malaria and proven cancer cure for many types of cancer, even some strains resistant to chemo.  You won't hear about Artemisinin (the holly grail cure) until the UW professor who currently has a patent and developing a "sythetic version" so Pharma companies can market it. . .puts it on the market. totally true, google it.

  • Anonymous

    1/20/2011 7:39:47 AM |

    And I bet there are many out there who don't believe that parasites, fungus, mold, acidic high fat diet, skeletal structural issues and toxins are the cause for most all disease - and MDs will rarely if ever investigate and treat.  Nor believe that  natural mineral seasalt - the oldest antibiotic known to mankind, oil of oregano - thousands of uses for disease and parasite cures, chlorella, very popular and hightly used in Japan...ionic therapy...personally, I have taken niacin 500 mg every morning for circulation, have since my 20's. I knew somthing was wrong and kept getting poo-pood by dr's...unknown to me, I had congenital lyme, like my mother. For me, kept my blood from turning to syrup & ionic therapy totally helped me to regain my life, health & focus. Everyone is different, exposure, threshold levels..we should all be able to make informed decisions and choices about our health.  Medicare, like many insurance companies, do not pay for alternative medicine at this time...and times need to change. We are so behind the rest of the world.

  • Anonymous

    2/12/2011 6:55:42 PM |

    July 8 you stated there are some truly great supplements but NOT nattokinase. Why did you not name those supplements? Afraid that nattokinase or other healthy supplement would reduce your and big pharmas income?

  • Anonymous

    3/2/2011 5:51:46 PM |

    Fibrovan - I am a 46 yr old from Caddo Mills Tx.  For 2-3 yrs now I have had unbelievable heavy cycles and clots. A sonogram a year earlier revealed I had fibroids. My cycles were so bad, I had a hard time working. The sonogram at the hosp cost $500 w/insurance.  I am a single mom receiving no support and can not afford surgery. I am VERY skeptical and not an easy sell. I decided to try Fibrovan in desperation. I took it faithfully and am amazed at the results!!!! I am having a normal cycle, my stomach feels 'deflated' and I didn't think I was bloated before. I decided to google this product again to see if there were bad side effects.  I never believe these posts that are good and always think they must work for the company.  I AM TELLING YOU so far 100% satisfied !!!!!! Smile

  • Mark UK

    4/19/2011 8:43:40 AM |

    Hi Im Mark 53 years old and live in the UK, I've been in AF since March 2010 I've been on warfarin since June 2010 and have had a good INR of appox 2.5 and Im tested every week.
    2 weeks ago I went for an AF ablation at Harefield Hospital UK after getting myself in the right frame of mind about having the 5 hour ablation operation I was woken after 1 hour to be told they could not see if my LAA (left artial appendage) was clear of clots using an ultrasound device so I was put in a CT scanner only to be told my LAA was full of THROMBUS, so my doctors now want my INR to be 3.00 and I now have to wait 4 to 6 weeks to have another CT scan and hope the Thrombus has gone so I can have the Ablation and pray in the mean time I dont have a stroke or pulmonary embolism. I am concidering that if after the 6 week CT scan the Thrombus is still there that maybe my body needs the help of some nattokinase and less Warfarin if there is a balance to be found I will buy a Blood Testing CoaguChek XS PLUS system kit to test myself daily for my INR of my normal 2.5 level, because I feel to do nothing after my 6 weeks CT scan is maybe waiting time I may not have, I will leave more comments as time goes on and let you read what happens in the weeks to come, Kind regards Mark

  • ggaylmer

    4/26/2011 9:26:22 PM |

    I'm fed up reading opinions from "Anonymous".  Are they all the same person?  Why can't you give your name?  At least Dr Davis is not afraid to give his name.

  • Derek Weiss

    5/26/2011 1:33:05 PM |

    I've worked ER for fifteen years, and while I don't have data, only my observations, I'd have to say your statement is WAY over exaggerated.

  • John Doe

    6/16/2011 6:00:20 AM |

    ggaylmer - I don't know about others but I am the "Anonymous" that posted my multi-part success story and the reason I did not use my name is because I do not trust the power and corruption of Big Pharmaceutical companies.   You may find it hard to believe, but I feel there  is no difference between a multi-billion dollar company protecting it's interests and organized crime syndicates of old.

    I am still 100% clot free and now only use Nattokinase one week a month to make sure I stay that way.  Good Health to allSmile

  • Rick Parker

    7/4/2011 10:56:14 PM |

    I used nattokinase to dissolve some blood clots that I had. It cleared them up with no observed side effects, except that I bruised very easily.

  • John Francis

    7/16/2011 1:09:11 AM |

    Anyone out there have any experiance with using Cardiokinase?

  • Cassondra

    9/9/2011 10:06:12 AM |

    I'm grateful for Nattokinase NSK-SD and Cardiokinase. I had a large DVT stemming from behind my knee to mid-calf in 2006 that went away after taking Nattokinase. I did a blood panel not long after I was diagnosed with the DVT, and was additionally diagnosed with MTHFR (two genes) and Factor 5 Leiden (one gene). My Dr. said I would be a "warfarin-for-lifer" but I was only 23 years old when he said that. I'm not sure I'd be in such good condition today, at 28 years old, if I was still taking warfarin daily. It only took me 4 months of being on warfarin before I decided to educate myself about alternatives. During the 4 months being on warfarin, I felt sick much of the time. After taking Nattokinase for a couple months, I went back to the Dr and I no longer had a DVT. Some might deem me a "guinea pig" to this supplement and I'm okay with that. Nattokinase has helped me stay clot free since 2006, even during my pregnancies. I trust Nattokinase over the prescription options, based on the information I've gathered on all counts. The pros outweigh the cons, and it boils down to what *I* feel comfortable taking based on what I know.

  • Kay G

    10/6/2011 9:57:36 PM |

    Contrary to the negative belief that Nattokinase is only a scam, I must tell you that it SAVED MY life.  I read hoards and hoards of complaints here in the forum that there is NO scientific evidence that if taken oraly that it will be effective.  Well my proof is in MY own experience and that is as follows:  for several months I experienced heaviness in my legs and it became very painful for me to even move out of my drivers seat after my 40 minute drive from work each day.  Each time I pulled into my driveway I'd have to prepare myself for  the pain I knew I was about to endure just moving from my car to my front door.  Not exactly the way one wants to end their work day EVERY day.  But that's only the begining...soon I began experiencing an annoying numbness in my left leg when lying down and that same feeling in my left arm as well.  I would elevate my legs and at times that would help but I knew I had to do something more internally to help.  At the same time I began getting lesions on my legs and began to REALLY become afraid after reading the possible reasons for such on countless sites.  I ran across a site speaking of Natto and its ability to naturally disolve blood clots.  I had NO intention on taking Cumadin or Warifin after reading of its danger AND high costs.  I reseached Natto and decided that to order such from Japan or even CA would NOT be too wise as I had NO interest in worrying about the radiation that has taken place recently.  So I decided to take Nattokinase--its supplemental form.  PLEASE BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU THAT IN ONE MONTH AND A HALF  after taking it, I have had NOT even ONE of the problems described above.  I'd like to add that I am only 40 which tells me that part of my problem with my circulation had to be genetic...along with my sometimes poor eating habits AND the fact that I STAND for all  8 hours of my work shift there at the PO.  I stand by Nattokinase.  It has help me immensely.

  • vicola65

    3/11/2012 9:52:24 AM |

    I''m commenting on an older post from a woman with heavy menstrual bleeding and fibroids and am hoping that in nearly 3 years since her post she''s found relief but perhaps someone else experiencing the same symptoms may find this helpful. I take Doctors'' Best  serrapeptase and nattokinase, both enteric coated.  Here is how it all started.   I experienced prgressively heavy bleeding which basically took over my life, horrible pelvic pain 24/7, inexplicable bladder infections, constant back pain, borderline aneia and overall debilitating feeling of malaise for years.  My (now former) OBGYN treated individual symptoms as they came up, put me on additional estrogen therapy (!) and prescribed high iron pre-natal vitamins for anemia... basically wrote it off as some of the pain in my head and some attributed to my age (then early 40''s and otherwise appeared healthy).    I found that eliminating all red meat helped a bit but still ate soy-based protein and only wild-caught fish. A week after a ''normal'' annual exam,  in early 2010 I landed in the ER in indescribably agony.  After being pumped full of morphine to allow a scan was told of a ''mass'' on my left ovary.  In the next weeks that follwed it was determined that the mass obscured the ovary and it had to come out asap  to determine if it''s cancer,, given the size.  I was also put on vicodin for pain and for the first time in years had a pain free month .I went in calm just to get the ''thing'' out.   When I came out of surgery, my fantastic oncological surgeon gave me the good and the bad. The good turned out to be that he (laporoscopically) removed my ovary, the fallopian tube .and the tangerine-sized ovarian cyst which apparently grew inside the ovary and had smaller ones forming. The real (ha ha) problem turned out to be a stage iV  (!) endometriosis with ''substantial'' amount of endo scar tissue (YEARS!) which fused my many organs together. It took years t get to that point and the combination of symptoms made me a classic example of this disease.  The hour-lng surgery actually took two hours as my doc attempted to remove as much tissue as possible.  My recovery was great - 1 week back to work vs. 9 if operated old school. I happily waited for the feeling of pelvic ''heartburn'' pain  from before to disappear. Unfortunately, when it did not my new doc explained that I still have endetriosis, the remaining tissue produces exponentially more estrogen and causes it to spread.  She advised  Lupron shots to get that under control and to regulate the pain and avoid further disease advance.   I was devastated especially after learning about the med side effects.  
      Instead, I researched everything I could and decided to start fighting the estrogen attack through a strict ''endo'' diet which was close to how I ate already except no soy at all and, of course, gluten free.  To deal with the existing tissue and help the pain, I''ve been ordering Doctors Best Serrapeptase and Nattokinase and taking both (along with green tea extract) at least 1-2 hrs before food (they are also enteric caps), one nattokinase during the day and both at night.   I have for years taken K2/K1 supplement and 5K Vitamin D3 already.  In less than 2 weeks my pain, including back pain (from Tarlov cyst found during the CT scan pre-op), disappeared. That was about a year ago.  I''ve also added yarrow (hormone regulation) and chaste berry (to control bleeding) and am for the first time in the last decade living pain free and functioning normally.  Based on my experience I bought the same enzymes for my sister in law who suffered horribly from fibroids and she, within a month or two, felt considerably better.  Enteric caps are key. I take mine with a full 12 oz of water with a 1/2 tsp of  aluminum free baking soda.   I also noticed that my 25+ year old tendonitis in my elbows/wrists is completely gone, my knee joints feel as if I were in my 20''s.   I plan to continue my regimen until there is a need for something else. At 5'' 10", 135-140 lbs Imy blood pressure is ideal as is cholesterol. These enzymes and a tweaked diet are the only thing I''''ve changed.  I believe that they work as long as they are taken correctly - enteric caps on an empty stomach, otherwise they just work as potent digestive aids which is not a bad thing.  
    I could not be happier.

  • vicola65

    3/11/2012 10:17:22 AM |

    April, Thank you!   I just (overshared) by story as a response to an earlier post.   Big pharma is not always the answer, no matter how much one''s insurance covers.  In fact, I love having an effective solution or two without the added side-effects or dependency on my insurance in case of job loss.  Tow years ago, if someone told me that taking 400 mg liquid CoQ10 daily would wipe out out my migranes, be totally allergy free by drinking Gypsy Cold Care tea (b''bye $30 month/co-pay) and Serrapeptase/Nattokinase combo  would rid me of chronic pain and is likely dissolving my endo scars... well, I wouldn''t believe it either but there it is.

  • vicola65

    3/11/2012 11:06:31 AM |

    Kay,  I too have read every comment on this forum and vast majority of comments are pro NK SP, not against it.   One person complained about the anonimous posts but, honestly, if he/she does not understand that sharing medical issues on the internet is not a big deal that individual needs to learn a bit more on that topic and that''s not what''s important here.  I am a happy much healthier person having found these enzymes in early 2011. (When I posted I wrote about an ovarian cyst removal in 2011 though accidentally put 2010).  The ONLY point where I would agree with Dr. Davis is that just because something is ''natural'' that it is automatically safe. By the same token, however, just becuase something is natural it does not mean that a Big Pharma solution is more effective.  Curare, for example, is both natural and lethal.  Thankfully, these enzymes bought from reputable vendors (mine are from Doctors Best) are reasonably priced and work great.   Everyone''s bodies are different, many folks suffer from poor absorbtion of nutrients because they''ve spent years eating processed foods, bodies riddled with candida and/or yeast.  We need enzymes to digest properly. Everyone can benefit from these supplements in one way or another.  To get the full clot fight we do have to make a bit of effort but I cannot imagine living without them now.

  • Andrea

    12/11/2012 7:16:01 PM |

    God bless you and I pray Jesus will heal you

  • Bonita

    7/1/2014 11:32:04 PM |

    Due to a short course of Premarin (estrogen) to help with uterine fibroid symptoms in 2009, I ended up with a DVT that spread to my lungs within 2 months with barely any noticeable symptoms until my leg was hurting so bad that I ended up in the ER.  After almost 2 weeks in the hospital on Coumadin and Lovenox I went home and weaned myself off of the Coumadin and started nattokinase.   I took it for about 6 months and went off of it for a brief period until my symptoms returned in my leg.  I restarted it and then took it for another 9 months just to be sure and when I stopped taking it, there were no more symptoms.   So if nattokinase is a scam then why did my clots and symptoms go away and I've had no problems since then?  I would also at times add the serrapetase to the natto as well.   It did also help improve my fibroid symptoms as well.  The enzymes break down any fibrin and dissolves it.  Unlike Coumadin which prevents clotting...not a good thing if you get injured is it?

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All posts by william-davis

Fat and fiber composition of nuts



From Mukuddem-Petersen J, Oosthuizen1 W, Jerling JC. J Nutr 2005.



If you haven't yet done so, adding raw nuts to your health program yields a broad panel of health benefits.

Contrary to conventional advice, nuts can be eaten in unlimited quantities. Provided they are raw--unroasted, unsalted (since salting only accompanies roasted nuts), not roasted in unhealthy oils like hydrogenated cottonseed or soybean (very common)--they do not make you fat, regardless of the quantity consumed. Beer nuts, honey-roasted nuts, mixed nuts roasted in unhealthy oils with salt added are either fattening or exert other unhealthy effects (e.g., hypertension, rise in Lp(a), and cancer from the hydrogenated fats).

Some notable observations from the chart:

--Hazelnuts and macadamians are the richest in monounsaturates
--Walnuts are the richest in the omega-6 linoleic acid, while also richest in the "omega-3" linolenic acid.
--From a fat composition standpoint, raw cashews and dry roasted peanuts aren't so bad.
--Pistachios figure pretty favorably in this analysis, rich in monounsaturates.
--Coconuts are unusually rich in saturated fat, though about half is lauric acid--an issue for future conversation.



Here's a listing of the fiber composition of nuts per 1 oz serving (about a handful):

Almonds (24 nuts) 3.5 g
Brazilnuts, dried (6-8 nuts) 2.1 g
Cashew nuts, dry roasted, with salt added (18 nuts) 0.9 g
Hazelnuts or filberts 2.7 g
Macadamia nuts, dry roasted, with salt added (10-12 nuts) 2.3 g
Mixed nuts, dry roasted, with peanuts, with salt added 2.6 g
Peanuts, all types, dry-roasted, without salt 2.3 g
Pecans (20 halves) 2.7 g
Pine nuts, dried 1.0 g
Pistachio nuts, dry roasted, with salt added (47 nuts) 2.9 g
Walnuts, English (14 halves) 1.9 g

Data courtesy USDA Nutrient Database


Note that almonds are the winners with 3.5 grams fiber per ounce, pistachios a close second. Pine nuts and cashews place last on the fiber content chart.

Not addressed by the charts is protein content of nuts, as well as the low sugar content, all additional beneficial aspects of nuts. Nuts are also a moderate source of magnesium (though seeds like pumpkin and sunflower shine in the magnesium content area).

Rather than micromanage the specific fat and fiber content of your diet, why not get a little of the good of everything on the list and just mix and match the nuts? (Mixed and matched on your own, of course, not a hydrogenated cottonseed oil nut mixture).

Flush-free niacin kills

Here, I re-post a conversation I've posted before, that of the scam product, "no-flush" niacin, also known as "flush-free" niacin.

I find this issue particularly bothersome, since I have a patient or two each and every week who forgets the explicit advice I gave them to avoid these scam products altogether. Despite costing more than conventional niacin, they exert no effect, beneficial or otherwise. Niacin--the real thing--exerts real and substantial beneficial effects. No-flush or flush-free does nothing except drain your wallet. I continue to marvel at the fact that supplement manufacturers persist in selling this product. Ironically, it commands a significant premium over other niacin forms.

They are outright scams that should be avoided altogether.


My former post, No-flush niacin kills:

Gwen was miserable and defeated.

No wonder. After a bypass operation failed just 12 months earlier with closure of 3 out of 4 bypass grafts, she has since undergone 9 heart catheterization procedures and received umpteen stents. She presented to me for an opinion on why she had such aggressive coronary disease (despite Lipitor).

No surprise, several new causes of heart disease were identified, including a very severe small LDL pattern: 100% of LDL particles were small.

Given her stormy procedural history, I urged Gwen to immediately drop all processed carbohydrates from her diet, including any food made from wheat or corn starch. (She and her husband were shocked by this, by the way, since she'd been urged repeatedly to increase her whole grains by the hospital dietitians.) I also urged her to begin to lose the 30 lbs of weight that she'd gained following the hospital dietitians' advice. She also added fish oil at a higher-than-usual dose.

I asked her to add niacin, among our most effective agents for reduction of small LDL particles, not to mention reduction of the likelihood of future cardiovascular events.

Although I instructed Gwen on where and how to obtain niacin, she went to a health food store and bought "no-flush niacin," or inositol hexaniacinate. She was curious why she experienced none of the hot flush I told her about.

When she came back to the office some weeks later to review her treatment program, she told me that chest pains had returned. On questioning her about what she had changed specifically, the problem became clear: She'd been taking no-flush niacin, rather than the Slo-Niacin I had recommended.

What is no-flush niacin? It is inositol hexaniacinate, a molecule that indeed carries six niacin molecules attached to an inositol backbone. Unfortunately, it exerts virtually no effect in humans. It is a scam. Though I love nutritional supplements in general, it pains me to know that supplement distributors and health food stores persist in selling this outright scam product that not only fails to exert any of the benefits of real niacin, it also puts people like Gwen in real danger because of its failure to provide the effects she needed.

So, if niacin saves lives, no-flush niacin in effect could kill you. Avoid this scam like the plague.

No-flush niacin does not work. Period.


Disclosure: I have no financial or other relationship with Upsher Smith, the manufacturer of Slo-Niacin.


Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

CT coronary angiography is NOT a screening procedure

I've recently had several hospital employees tell me that their hospitals offered CT coronary angiograms without charge to their employees.

Among these hospital employees were several women in their 30s and 40s.

Why would young, asymptomatic, pre-menopausal women be subjected to the equivalent of 100 chest x-rays or 25 mammograms? Is there an imminent, life-threatening, symptomatic problem here?

All of these women were without symptoms, some were serious exercisers.

There is NO rational justification for performing CT coronary angiography, free or not.

What they really want is some low-risk, yet confident means of identifying risk for heart disease. Cholesterol, of course, is a miserable failure in this arena. Framingham risk scoring? Don't make me laugh.

Step in CT coronary angiography. But does CT coronary angiography provide the answers they are looking for?

Well, it provides some of the answers. It does serve to tell each woman whether she "needs" a heart procedure like heart catheterization, stent, or bypass surgery, since the intent of CT angiography is to identify "severe" blockages, sufficient to justify heart procedures.

Pitfalls: Because of the radiation exposure, CT angiography is not a procedure that can be repeated periodically to reassess the status of any abnormal findings. A CT angiogram every year? After just four years, the equivalent of 400 chest x-rays will have been performed, or 100 mammograms. Cancer becomes a very real risk at this point.

CT angiography is also not quantitative. Sure, it can provide a crude estimation of the percent blockage--the value your cardiologist seeks to "justify" a stent. But it does NOT provide a longitudinal (lengthwise) quantification of plaque volume, a measure of total plaque volume that can be tracked over time.

What's a woman to do? Simple: Get the test that, at least in 2008, provides the only means of gauging total lengthwise coronary plaque volume: a simple CT heart scan, a test performed with an equivalent of 4 - 10 chest x-rays, or 1 - 2.5 mammograms.

Perhaps, in future, software and engineering improvements will be made with CT coronary angiography that reduce radiation to tolerable levels and allows the lengthwise volume measurement of plaque. But that's not how it's done today.

The Wheat Deficiency Syndrome

Beware the dreaded Wheat Deficiency Syndrome.

Like any other syndrome, you can recognize this condition by its many tell-tale signs:

--Flat abdomen
--Rapid weight loss
--High energy
--Less mood swings
--Better sleep
--Diminished appetite
--Reduced blood sugar
--Reduced blood pressure
--Reduced small LDL and total LDL
--Increased HDL
--Reduced triglycerides
--Reduced C-reactive protein and other inflammatory measures


Of course, you could choose to cure yourself of this syndrome simply by taking the antidote: foods made with wheat flour, like bread, breakfast cereals, pastas, pretzels, crackers, and muffins.

All the signs of the syndrome will then disappear and you can have back your protuberant abdomen, irrational mood swings, exagerrated appetite, higher blood sugar, etc.

The Framingham Crap Shoot

The Framingham risk score is a risk-assessment tool that has become the basis for heart disease prediction used by practicing physicians.

The Framingham system determines that:

· 35% of the adult population in the U.S., or 70 million, is deemed “low-risk.” Low-risk is defined as the absence of standard risk factors for heart disease; low-risk persons have no more than a 1-in-20 chance (5%) of dying from heart disease in the next 10 years. Physicians are advised by the American Heart Association (AHA) and its experts that no specific effort at risk reduction is necessary.

· 25%, or approximately 50 million, U.S. adults are deemed “high-risk,” based on the presence of 2 or more risk factors. High-risk persons experience a 20%-30% likelihood of heart attack in the next 10 years. People at high-risk are candidates for preventive efforts according to the guidelines set by the Adult Treatment Panel-III (Expert Panel on Detection, Evaluation, and Treatment of High Blood Cholesterol in Adults; ATP-III) for cholesterol-reducing statin drug treatment and for “lifestyle-modifying” advice.

· The remaining 40% of the adult population, or 80 million people, are judged “intermediate-risk,” with the likelihood of heart attack between 5-20% over the next 10 years. This group should receive preventive advice and might be considered for statin drug treatment.


Let’s do some arithmetic. By the above scheme, the low-risk population will experience 3,500,000 heart attacks over the next decade, or 350,000 heart attacks per year.

The intermediate-risk population (without preventive treatment) will experience 8,000,000 heart attacks over the 10-year time period, or 800,000 per year.

The high-risk population, the group most likely to receive standard advice on diet, exercise, and be prescribed statin cholesterol drugs, will have their risk reduced by 35% by preventive efforts over the 10-year period. This means that heart attacks over 10 years will be reduced from 12,500,000 to 8,125,000 by standard prevention efforts, or reduced to 812,500 heart attacks per year.

These numbers are no secret. They are well known facts that have simply come to be accepted by the medical community. In other words, the standard approach to heart attack prediction makes the fact that two million people will succumb to cardiovascular events in the next year no mystery. This exercise in prediction is coldly accurate when applied to a large population.

The problem is that this approach cannot reliably distinguish which individuals will have a heart attack from those who will not.

From 100 people chosen at random, for instance, the numbers game played above will not confidently identify who among those 100 will have a heart attack, who will not, who will develop anginal chest pains and end up with stents or bypass surgery, or who will die. We just know that some of them will. Some people at high risk will have a heart attack, some people at intermediate risk will have a heart attack, some people at low risk will have a heart attack.

For any specific individual (like you or me), it’s a crap shoot.

That's why precise individual measurement of cardiovascular risk is required for real risk assessment, not applying broad statistical observations and forcing them to conform to the unique life of a specific individual, particularly risk calculators with as few risk parameters as the Framingham risk score.

At what score should a heart catheterization be performed?

That's easy: NONE.

(Although I've addressed this previously, the question has come up again many times and I thought it'd be worth repeating.)

In other words, no heart scan score--100, 500, 1000, 5000--should lead automatically to procedures in someone who underwent a heart scan but has no symptoms.

This question is a common point of confusion.

In other words, is there a specific cut-off that automatically triggers a need for catheterization?

In my view, there is no such score. We can't say, for instance, that everybody with a score above 1000 should have a catheterization. It is true that the higher your score, the greater the likelihood of a plaque blocking flow. A score of 1000 carries an approximately 25-30% likelihood of reduced blood flow sufficient to consider a stent or bypass. This can nearly always be settled with a stress test. Recall that, despite their pitfalls for uncovering hidden heart disease in the first place, stress tests are useful as gauges of coronary blood flow.

But even a score of 1000 carries a 70-75% likelihood that a procedure will not be necessary. This is too high to justify doing heart catheterizations willy-nilly.

Unfortunately, some of my colleagues will say that any heart scan score justifies a heart cath. I believe this is absolutely, unquestionably, and inexcusably wrong. More often than not, this attitude is borne out of ignorance, laziness, or a desire for profit.

Does every lump or bump justify surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy on the chance it could represent cancer? Of course not. There is indeed a time and place for these things, but judgment is involved.

In my view, no heart scan score should automatically prompt a major heart procedure like heart catheterization in a person without symptoms. If a stress test is normal, signifying normal coronary flow (and there are no other abnormal phenomena, such as abnormal left ventricular function), then there is no defensible rationale for heart procedures. Heart procedures like stents and bypass cannot prevent heart attacks in future; they can only restore flow when flow is poor, or stop the heart attack that is about to occur.

However, EVERY heart scan score above zero is a reason to engage in a program of prevention.

"It's genetic"

At 53, Sam had been through the wringer with heart disease. After his first heart attack at age 50, he'd undergone four heart catheterizations, 5 stents, and, most recently, a bypass operation. He came to us to see if there was a better solution.

After hearing Sam's story, I asked,"Did your doctors suggest to you why you had heart disease?"

"Well, they said it was genetic, since my father went through the same thing in his early 50s, though he died after his second heart attack at age 54. They said it was bad luck and nothing could be done about it."

Though Sam's case is more dramatic than most, I hear this argument every day: Risk for heart disease is genetic.

It's true: There are indeed multiple reasons for inheriting causes for coronary heart disease, genes that heighten inflammatory responses, oxidative responses, modify lipoprotein particles, increase blood pressure, etc. There has even been some excitement over developing chromosomal markers for heightened risk.

That's all well and fine, but what can we do about it today?

In practical life, many inherited genetic patterns can be expressed in ways that you and I can identify--and correct. They are not chromosomal markers, but end products of genetic patterns. (Although there are indeed identifiable chromosomal markers, they have not yet led to meaningful treatments to my knowledge.)

These readily identifiable patterns include:

--Lipoprotein(a)--Clearly genetically transmitted, passed from mother or father to each child with a 50% likelihood, then you onto your children if you have it.

--Small LDL--Although small LDL is amplified by high-carbohydrate diets and obesity, it can also occur in slender people who do not indulge in carbohydrates --i.e., a genetic tendency. Or, it can be a combination of poor lifestyle magnifying the genetic tendency for small LDL.

--Low HDL--Particularly the extremes of low HDL below 30 mg/dl. (Although, interestingly, I am seeing more of these people, though not all, respond to vitamin D replacement. Perhaps an important subgroup of low HDL people are really Vitamin D Receptor (VDR) variants.)

--ApoE--Two variants are relevant: ApoE2 and ApoE4. In my experience, it's the E2 that carries far greater significance, though the data are somewhat scanty. ApoE4 people are more sensitive to the fats in their diet (greater rises in LDL with fats; thus, some people advocate a tighter saturated fat restriction with this pattern, though I am not convinced that is the best solution), while ApoE2 people are exceptionally sensitive to carbohydrates, develop extravagant increases in triglycerides, and are very diabetes-prone with even the most minimal weight gain. If two "doses" of the E2 gene are present (homozygotic), then the tendencies are very exagerrated. E4 people are also subject to greater likelihood of Alzheimer's, though it is not a certain risk in a specific individual.

--Postprandial disorders--We use the fasting intermediate-density lipoprotein (IDL) as an easy, obtainable index of the ability to clear after-eating byproducts of meals from the blood. Increased IDL has been related to increased coronary, carotid, and aortic aneurysmal disease.

--Hypertriglyceridemia-i.e., increases in triglycerides, While not all forms of high triglycerides confer risk for atherosclerosis, many do, particularly if associated with IDL, small LDL, increased LDL particle number and/or apoB.


There are more, but you get the point. There are clear-cut genetically-transmitted reasons for greater risk for cardiovascular disease. Some, like lipoprotein(a), yield very high risk. Others, like increased triglycerides, yield mixed levels of risk.

Importantly, all of these patterns--ALL--are identifiable and are treatable. Treatment may not always be the easiest thing, but they are treatable nonetheless. While lipoprotein(a), for instance, is the most difficult pattern to correct in the above list, I remind everyone that our current "record holder" for reversal of plaque and heart scan scores--63% reduction--has lipoprotein(a) that we corrected.

If you've been told that your risk for cardiovascular disease or coronary plaque is "genetic" and thereby uncorrectable and hopeless, run the other direction as fast as you can. Get another opinion from someone willing to take the modest effort to tell you precisely why.

Tim Russert Revisited

A Heart Scan Blog reader brought this piece by Dr. MacDougall to my attention.

Dr. MacDougall created a fictitious posthumous conversation between himself and the late Tim Russert. MacDougall paints a picture of a hardworking, hard-living man who adhered to an overindulgent lifestyle of excessive eating. He concludes that a vegetarian, low-fat diet would have saved his life.

Beyond being disrespectful, I would differ with Dr. MacDougall’s assessment. In fact, I’ve heard an interview with Mr. Russert’s primary care physician in which the doctor claimed that Mr. Russert had been counseled on the need for a low-fat diet and, in fact, adhered to it quite seriously. Far from being an overindulgent, overeating gourmand, he followed the dictates of conventional dietary wisdom according to the American Heart Association. The low-fat diet articulated by Dr. MacDougall is simply a little more strict than that followed by Mr. Russert.

What exactly could Mr. Russert have done to prolong his life? Several basic strategies:

--Added fish oil. This simple strategy alone would have reduced the likelihood of dying suddenly by almost half.

--Eliminated wheat and cornstarch—Mr. Russert developed diabetes in the last few years of his life. By definition, diabetes is an inability to handle sugars and sugar-equivalents. Wheat and cornstarch yield immediate and substantial surges in blood sugar greater than table sugar; elimination causes weight to plummet, blood sugar to drop, and diabetes (at least in its early phases) can be eliminated in many people, particularly those beginning with substantial excess weight.

Just those two strategies alone would more than likely have avoided the tragic death that brought Mr. Russert’s wonderful life and career to an abrupt end.

Of course, he could have even taken his heart health program even further, as we do in the Track Your Plaque program. While the conversation has focused on how to avoid tragic events like sudden cardiac death, why not take it a step farther and ask, "How can coronary plaque be measured, tracked, and reversed?"

In that vein, Mr. Rusert could have restored vitamin D to normal levels; identified all hidden sources of heart disease using lipoprotein testing (though he had small LDL without a doubt, given his generous waist size, HDL of 36 mg/dl and high triglycerides); considered niacin. Simple, yet literally lifesaving efforts, that make reversal much more likely.

Those simple steps, in fact, would have tipped the scales heavily in Mr. Russert’s favor, making a heart attack and/or sudden death from heart disease exceptionally unlikely.

Water: Bottled vs. tap

The Fanatic Cook has a great post discussing the findings of the Environmental Working Group (EWG) on the quality of bottled water.

The full text of the study from the EWG can be viewed here.

They report that "the bottled water industry promotes an image of purity, but comprehensive testing by the Environmental Working Group (EWG) reveals a surprising array of chemical contaminants in every bottled water brand analyzed" . . . After analyzing 10 brands, they conclude that "tests strongly indicate that the purity of bottled water cannot be trusted. Given the industry's refusal to make available data to support their claims of superiority, consumer confidence in the purity of bottled water is simply not justified."

"EWG's study has revealed that bottled water can contain complex mixtures of industrial chemicals never tested for safety, and may be no cleaner than tap water. Given some bottled water company's failure to adhere to the industry's own purity standards, Americans cannot take the quality of bottled water for granted. Indeed, test results like those presented in this study may give many Americans reason enough to reconsider their habit of purchasing bottled water and turn back to the tap."


For these reasons, as well as environmental reasons (plastic bottles filling up dumpsites), I think it is becoming clearer and clearer that bottled water is something we should only use in a pinch, not habitually.

Can CRP be reduced?

The JUPITER study has sparked a lot of discussion about c-reactive protein, or CRP.

If we follow the line of reasoning that prompted this study, reducing CRP may correlate with reduction of cardiovascular events. Thus, in the JUPITER study, Crestor 20 mg per day reduced cardiovascular events by nearly half.

From a CRP perspective, starting values were 4.2 mg/dl in the Crestor group of the trial, 4.3 mg/dl in the placebo group. After 24 months, CRP in the Crestor group was 2.2 mg/dl, 3.5 mg/dl in the placebo group, representing a 37% reduction.

Now, in our Track Your Plaque program--an experience that has yielded the virtual ELIMINATION of cardiovascular events--we aim for a CRP level of 1.0 mg/dl or less, ideally 0.5 mg/dl or less. The majority of people achieve these ambitious levels. In fact, it is a rare person who does not.

How do we achieve dramatic reductions in CRP? We use:

--Weight loss through elimination of wheat and cornstarch--This yields impressive reductions.

--Vitamin D--I have no doubt whatsoever of vitamin D's capacity to exert potent anti-inflammatory effects. I am not entirely sure why this happens (enhanced sensitivity to insulin, reduced expression of tissue inflammatory proteins like matrix metalloproteinase and others, etc.), but the effect is profound.

--Elimination of junk foods--like candies, cookies, pretzels, rice cakes, potato chips, etc.

--Exercise--Amplifies the benefits of diet on CRP reduction.

--Not allowing saturated fats to dominate--Yes, yes, I know. The demonization of saturated fat conversation has been largely replaced by the Taubesian saturated fat has not been confidently linked to heart disease conversation. But controlled feeding studies, in which a single component of diet is manipulated (e.g., saturated vs. monounsaturated vs. polyunsaturated fat) have clearly shown that saturated fats do activate several factors in the inflammatory response.

--Fish oil--Though I am a firm believer in the huge benefits of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation/restoration, the anti-inflammatory effect is modest from a CRP perspective. However, there are anti-inflammatory benefits beyond that of simple CRP (via normalization of eicosanoid metabolism and other pathways).

--Weight loss--A BIG effect. Weight loss drops CRP like a stone. The CRP-reducing effect is especially large if achieved via carbohydrate reduction.

Of course, this is much more complicated than taking a pill. But it is effective to achieve health benefits outside of cardiovascular risk, is enormously useful as part of a weight loss effort, and doesn't cost $1400 per year like Crestor.

In short, if CRP reduction is the goal, it certainly does not have to involve Crestor.