Roger's near-miss CT angiogram experience

Heart Scan Blog reader, Roger, described his near-miss experience with CT coronary angiograms.

Hoping to obtain just a simple CT heart scan, he was bullied to get a CT coronary angiogram instead. Roger held strong and just asked for the test that we all should be having, a CT heart scan.


I posted yesterday that I was about to have my first CT heart scan...well, it was an interesting experience for reasons I coudn't possibly have anticipated. Dr. Davis has commented in the past on the confusion in the media about the difference between a CT calcium score scan, and a CT angiography, the latter requiring a far higher dose of radiation. I assumed this was a source of confusion only among patients and lay folks, but, lo and behold, I discovered today that doctors--or at least their helpers--can be just as confused.

Here's my story:

After checking in, I asked the receptionist to see if she had any information on whether my medical insurance was covering the scan. She called someone, and I heard her say over the phone, "He's here for a CT angiogram." At that point my ears perked up. I explained I wasn't here for a CT angiogram, only a regular CT scan. "Well, do you want to call your doctor and talk about this?" she asked. No, I said, I would like to ask one of their folks to verify exactly what test my doctor had ordered. As luck would have it, the technician was walking by at that point. "Is this a CT angiogram?" the receptionist asked. "No, it's just a CT calcium score scan" was the reply. But apparently the technician had been unclear herself, and had called my doctor just to verify. In other words, the "default" procedure they were accustomed to doing at this august Houston vascular clinic was a CT angiogram.

In fact, my appointment was even listed on their calendar as a "CT angiogram." For all I know, my insurance will be billed for the same. Later, during the procedure, the technician acted surprised I wasn't doing the "full test." I explained I had minimal risk factors (actually only one, an HDL of 34 a couple of years ago, which has since been raised to 50 partly as a result of taking advice from this site), but that my doctor was progressive (he is an MD for the Houston Astros) and thought it was a good idea since there is heart disease in my immediate family. My doctor did indeed prescribe only a CT calcium score scan, but it seems to have been an order that this clinic, at least, wasn't all that used to seeing.

So, I guess the message is: we have a lot of educating to do. Had I not been a faithful reader of these pages, I certainly wouldn't have known what kind of test I was about to get, or what questions to ask!

As for the heart scan itself, a piece of cake. If you can hold your breath, you can take this test. Just be sure it is the right one!



Why the "push" towards CT coronary angiograms and not "just" a CT heart scan? Well, I know it's shocking but it's . . . money!

CT coronary angiograms yield around $1800-$4000 per test. CT heart scans yield somewhere around $200. Though the scan center support staff might not care too much about the money themselves, their administrators likely make the cost distinctions clear to them.

Another reason: Most scan center staff, ironically, don't understand what a heart scan means, nor do they understand how it might serve to launch a program of prevention. They do understand that severe blockage by CT angiogram "needs" to be stented or bypassed. So they push patients towards things they understand.

Nobody makes money from CT heart scans, just as nobody makes money from a mammogram. Heart scans also don't lead to heroic, "lifesaving" procedures. They just lead to this sleepy, unexciting, inexpensive thing called prevention.

Comments (13) -

  • Mark K. Sprengel

    6/28/2009 11:35:08 AM |

    I had a friend that recently went for a heart scan. He said his score was zero. Is that possible?

  • Anonymous

    6/28/2009 4:31:52 PM |

    I hope the USA can see its way to some sort of national standards for State run medicare. As recent events show, if you have the will, the money will be found.

    I live in Ontario, Canada and only had to ask my primary care physician in order to get a CT angiogram (did not know about the Calcium score at the time) It's cost is covered under our social medicine program OHIP.

    A new study shows 30% drop in mortality from CD

    http://www.theheart.org/article/980589.do

  • Anna

    6/28/2009 5:30:18 PM |

    Sure it is.  My score was 0.  That's despite doing quite a bit in direct opposition to the AHA recommended dietary advice:

    -no wheat/gluten at all (whole or refined)
    -very few, if any grains (whole or refined)
    -very low sugar and starch consumption (low carb)
    -pastured red meat several times a week (bison, beef, or pork)  with normal ferritin level
    -high saturated fat consumption (grassfed butter, coconut oil, home-render lard)
    -whole fat dairy (incl raw whole milk and raw milk aged cheese)
    -no attempt to artificially increase fiber, though there's probably a fair amount of fiber in the ample fresh non-starchy veggies I consume
    -2 to 3 "backyard" eggs cooked in ample butter nearly daily for breakfast

  • fred88

    6/28/2009 7:04:06 PM |

    i am 72 years old my calcium score is zero.2 yrs ago i was diagnosed with angina.i took the linus pauling protocol and cured my heart disease.on march 20th 2009 i had a calcium score scan and astounded my cardiologist as my arteries were completely cleared.vitamin c and amino acid is cheap and available. no money in it for doctors.discredited by medical profession.

  • Jim the Guacamole Diet guy

    6/29/2009 5:54:45 AM |

    "Why the "push" towards CT coronary angiograms and not "just" a CT heart scan? Well, I know it's shocking but it's . . . money!"

    No, surely not.

  • billye

    6/29/2009 11:12:29 AM |

    Rogers experience brought back an unpleasant near miss CT Angiogram memory of an episode that I had while being in the hospital 5 years ago. I was  brought in with congestive heart failure-EF 20/25,  Now Don't think you are soon to lose a faithful reader, my EF is now 45/50, due to Aranesp injections, that I am doing exceptionally well on.  My anemia is now under fabulous control.
    But, I digress, one day while in the hospital a beautiful young lady with long flowing hair wearing a white coat and stethoscope came in to see me and identified her self as the cardiologist assistant. She quickly started to promote me to have an angiogram.  I refused. The hospital cardiologist came to see me and I told him not to send me any more sales reps. (he must have learned this technique from big Pharma with all their beautiful drug sales reps). I never did have that apparently unnecessary needless invasive procedure done.  Guess what?, I lived to tell the story.

  • Jim, Guacamole Diet

    6/29/2009 1:03:19 PM |

    One morning last year, I drank way too much strong tea. A few hours later, I had chest pains and tachycardia. I had forgotten about the tea, which with hindsight  was the obvious cause, and I went to an emergency room.

    By the time I got there, the pain had gone, and I should never have stepped into the ER waiting room.

    As soon as they got their hands on me, they wouldn't let me go, claiming that insurance wouldn't pay if I left against doctors' orders. They quickly ran up any thousands of dollars of expensive tests, all of which came back fine.

    They were very unhappy that I refused a coronary artery stent.

    My ejection fraction was 65.

  • Anna

    6/29/2009 6:09:24 PM |

    Anonymous in Canada,

    "A new study shows 30% drop in mortality from CD"

    Yes, modern medicine "saves" more people all the time.  

    But is the *incidence" of CD dropping? or is medicine just getting better at treatment.  I want to avoid CD, not just be saved from it.

    I used to be a strong believer that the US needed a universal medical care system similar to Canada and the UK.  Now that I have had a closer look at the UK's system over the last 14 years (in-laws are there) and have experienced the profound lack of primary prevention under a US HMO system (healthcare rationing), I'm not-so-sure.  

    Sure, we are a rich nation and we should be able to afford decent healthcare for everyone.  The current system is for haves and have-nots with the in-betweens really getting pinched.  And furthermore, the haves don't get nearly the quality of care that they pay through the nose for anyway (though many don't realize it).  

    But I can't see how turning over the decisions to government is going to be any better than it has been to turn over decisions to HMP insurance companies and accountants.  In fact, it could get worse.  Especially since government has turned into the handmaiden for special interests.  As much as I think it should happen, I have a hard time getting behind the proposals.  Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

  • Anonymous

    6/30/2009 12:51:29 AM |

    ok fred88, you almost got me excited....until I saw the oral EDTA chelation.... I'm calling BS by association

  • Kent

    6/30/2009 1:54:06 AM |

    Fred,

    I've heard a mixture of reports on the Pauling protocol with varied success. Can you give a little more detail as to how much vitaming C, L-Lysine, etc. you took per day at what intervals, and the time duration you believe it took for the protocol to do it's job?

    Thanks,
    Kent

  • TedHutchinson

    6/30/2009 8:39:34 AM |

    Pauling Protocol in PDF format
    take note of this section
    The half-life of vitamin C in the bloodstream is 30 minutes.  
    Linus Pauling advised taking vitamin C throughout the day in divided doses. The Hickey/Roberts Dynamic Flow theory predicts that taking vitamin C  every four hours will produce the highest sustained blood concentrations. Take more before bedtime.

    I use a time release formulation

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 8:25:24 PM |

    CT coronary angiograms yield around $1800-$4000 per test. CT heart scans yield somewhere around $200. Though the scan center support staff might not care too much about the money themselves, their administrators likely make the cost distinctions clear to them.

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High LDL cholesterol--only

High LDL cholesterol--only

As a sequel to my last post, just how often can we blame an isolated high LDL cholesterol as the cause of coronary plaque and a heart scan score?

In other words, how often does someone prove to have only LDL cholesterol as the cause of a heart scan score . . . and nothing else? No low HDL, small LDL, lipoprotein(a), a post-prandial (after-eating) intermediate-density lipoprotein, inflammatory responses, phospholipase A2, high triglycerides, vitamin D deficiency, etc.

Rarely. In fact, I can truly count the number of people who have only LDL cholesterol as their sole cause of coronary atherosclerotic plaque on one hand. It is really an infrequent situation.

Far more commonly, people have 5, 6, 7 or more reasons for coronary plaque.

Thus, the idea that a statin drug to reduce LDL will cure heart disease is completely folly. It does happen--but rarely. I think I've seen it happen twice. Much more commonly, a program that addresses all the causes of coronary plaque yields far superior benefits.

In my view, an effort to identify all the causes is relatively easy, makes far better sense, and provides you much greater assurance that you will succeed in conquering heart disease and removing its evil influence from your life.

Comments (3) -

  • Anonymous

    5/11/2007 7:21:00 PM |

    Dr. Davis, two things check out this web site http://www.traceminerals.com/research/synx.html it appears to have some good data on Metabolic Syndrome-X:
    I would like to share some good data that I have had by following the TYP program, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes Feb. 15 and after that I got my second heart scan, over 600 (my age 57) a 43% increase in 18 Mo. Not good needless to say, than I found TYP in march of this year I started slowly following and implementing a TYP plan,
    Background
    In February I did not feel well and I went to the doctor(2/15) I had lost 12 lbs my % body fat was going up  the muscles in my stomach were sore at times I was so thirsty I could not stand it and my eye site was changing. Needless to say I was diagnosed as a type II diabetic   glucose 344 A1C 11.2, was prescribed new medications for both the diabetic condition( Januvia 100mg 1X per day actoPlus Met 2X per day 15mg 850mg) along with cholesterol ( Advicor 20/1000 ). I started a life style changing program.
    Life style changes
    Modified eating program- went to a low GI high Vegetable protein including soy no or almost no Fats, eat as much as I want .(needless to say I have changed this plan)
    Quit smoking
    Increased exercise- walking on treadmill 7%grade 3.75mph from 30 min. to 30 min twice a day
    My Medications were changed Advicor 20/1000; Lisinopril-hydrochlorothiazide tablets 10-12.5 mg and a 325mg aspirin
    April started on the TYP plan, my Glucose average was way up, my total cholesterol number was 100 but my LDL-P was 1015 and my small LDL-P was 913 along with a HDL-C of 30  went on the TYP program
    Had my Vitamin D checked -it was low , had my DHEA checked it was low, had my Magnesium checked it was low, after my discussion with you came off Lisinopril , ( we are seeing were this settles out to pick the right med's) stopped talking all diabetic med's added two other supplements R-ALA , PGX Fiber Blend (instead of oatmeal too many carbs) along with Vit D, Magnesium, DHEA , 15 grams of soy protein Fish oil, healthy Fats, no wheat products, Dark chocolates L-Arginine.   I have had a additional blood test for these items (Vit D magnesium, DHEA) adjusted supplements body fat down to less than 14% WHAT A DIFFERENCE, in the last 11 days  my fasting glucose numbers are between 84 and 103 that’s normal, before they were above 125 solidly Diabetic (since Feb even with diabetic medications) my doctor has never seen this much improvement without medication, on someone that had a 12 week ave of over 340.I do not know who is more anxious to see my next lipid profile me or my doctor  . I'am scheduled in three weeks.
    Needless to say i also beleive that very few people can just take one pill and be cured. I hope i'am alive when they do find the magic cure (and i think they will) but right now the TYP plan is the best game in town. Eugene

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 3:12:33 PM |

    Thus, the idea that a statin drug to reduce LDL will cure heart disease is completely folly. It does happen--but rarely. I think I've seen it happen twice. Much more commonly, a program that addresses all the causes of coronary plaque yields far superior benefits.

  • viagra online

    4/19/2011 8:16:49 PM |

    I knoe a lot about the Cholesterol!
    LDL particles vary in size and density, and studies have shown that a pattern that has more small dense LDL particles, called Pattern B, equates to a higher risk factor for coronary heart disease!!My grandpa died for this reason, I think that it was terrible!!

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