Wasn't Good Calories, Bad Calories good?  Man, just what the medical world needs, a good wake-up call into how schlocky their science is (sometimes).  

Did you finish the book yet?  Parts of it infuriated me at the stupidity and arrogance of people.  And I have to say it is getting harder and harder to have respect for medical "authorities" when you know the horrible science their training was based on, that they don't question the basis for these assumptions yet assume their patients are all idiots.

I'd love to hear more of your comments on his book if you get a chance to blog about them.

Would be interested in any comments you have as you "reconsider the role of saturated fat in diet" as a low carb diet appears to be beneficial in raising HDL.

This research  from Jeff Volek was of interest: Jeff Volek, et al: Low carb diet reduces inflammation and blood saturated fat in Metabolic Syndrome. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071203091236.htm

Also, Cordain makes the case in his FAQ for the Paleo Diet that saturated fat averaged 11% in wild animal carcasses.

If you're going to buy something like salami, ham, bacon, sausage, or other meat product, the best source is often a deli that makes it on site.  Not only will the salami, ham, or sausage be made with fewer ingredients, but it's much tastier, fresher, and often a similar cost to mass-marketed processed meats.  

This will not be practical for people everywhere.  Living in LA as I do, there are specialty delis all over the place and it isn't too hard to find locally made sausage, etc.  One alternative would be a deli that takes great pride in presenting the craft-made meat products of a smaller supplier.

I've actually ignored what might be the best option of all, which is to make it yourself.  Simple ham, proscuitto, bacon, salami, many different kinds of sausage, etc. can all be made in the home with inexpensive tools and (for proscuitto and salami) a decent dry place where they won't be disturbed.  It's also fun!

But at all costs, avoid anything made by oscar mayer or any other mass produced meat product.  It's all crap.

Even Dr Atkins said no meats allowed that are processed or have nitrates, only meats like our ancestors ate, he said it was like "the kiss of death".I don't even considered those types of meat to have sat fats, but poision, they are all part of Franken foods to me, like Snackwell cookies.. If I have sausage I get a local German butcher to make organic elk meat into garlic sausage for us.To me low carb means nutrient dense whole foods.

What's frightening is that, whenever I've discussed the Atkins' approach with people doing it on their own, they've virtually always included plentiful cured and processed meats.

Somehow that part of the message didn't get stressed enough.

In response to Nancy's first post:

I'm embarassed to admit that Taubes was so tremendously unique and entertaining (in a nerdy sort of way) that I've savored each discussion slowly and carefully. So it's literally taken me two months to read his book. But I have enjoyed every word.

Yes I think those of us who used the board and forum understood it better and we could call his office and talk to his nurse or leave him a question, lots misconstrued they should eat a lb  bacon a day, He said no nitrates and sat fats under 20 gr a day.I learned his big boo boo was eventually incorporating rungs adding breads, potatoes etc, they are the kiss of death IMHO.

_I asked Martin what he had for breakfast: a whole wheat bagel with no-added-sugar jam. Lunch: a turkey sub on whole grain bread, no mayonnaise. Snacks: baked chips, pretzels ("a low-fat snack!")._

What do you think of Joel Fuhrman's approach? He would not allow people to eat bagels, jam, bread, chips, and pretzels. The base of his diet is veggies (half raw, half-cooked), then fruits, beans, potatoes, raw nuts, and raw seeds. Grains are at the top of Fuhrman's food pyramid.

http://www.nutritionforwellness.org/img/food_pyramid.gif

Also, when he says "whole grains", he means unbroken grains like brown rice, oatmeal, etc. Not flours, or pastas, or breads made with flour. The only breads he would allow are things like sprouted grain breads, made without any flour.

Most people who eat a low-fat diet eat bad foods. They don't eat high quality foods. Dr. Fuhrman claims to lower triglycerides and improve all other health markers, because he stricly limits foods like flour, fruit juice, vegetable oils, sugar, etc. Maybe a low-fat diet based on grains (esp flours) will raise the triglycerides, but a low-fat diet based on vegetables, fruits, beans, nuts, and seeds (Fuhrman's) wont.

Fuhrman emphasizes nutrient-density far more than people like Dr. Dean Ornish. Whole grain flours are very perishable and quickly turn rancid. Weston Price pointed this out, but most people didn't bother to listen and still don't. Here's an article about how whole grain flours cause sterility if they are stored for as little as 15 days, while flour and bread that is fresh-ground doesn't. How many are eating fresh flour? I would say <1%, maybe zero.

http://eap.mcgill.ca/Publications/EAP35.htm

Just a small correction - Dr Fuhrman's diet is not really low fat like Ornish/McDougall, the only similarity to those diets is the predominance of plant based foods.

It eliminates/restricts saturated fat and plant oils but he is VERY pro 'good' fat in it's natural packaging i.e. nuts, seeds, avocado and fish oil in some cases (he prefers DHA from algae due to mercury in fish for most people and esp pregnant/lactating/babies but for high doses still recommends high quality fish oil especially for autoimmune patients). Re the nuts/seeds/avocado - in his weight loss strategy he does limit them but a minimum level is compulsory on a daily basis and he actively encourages people to have them while maintaining ideal weight i.e. can go very high if very skinny, lower if overweight but cannot eliminate them.

Yes, a reduction in unhealthy fats (saturated, trans, polyunsaturated) helps. But a reduction in fats of all sorts is not necessary and can, in fact, worsen the problem. We learned this lesson years ago with the Ornish diet and similar ultra low-fat approaches. When you reduce fat intake significantly to <10% of calories, triglycerides go way up. In those days, it wasn't uncommon to see triglycerides skyrocket past 200 or 300 mg/dl on these diets.

Do saturated fats elevate triglyceride levels in the body?  Jim