The battle for natural hormones

The battle for preservation of availability of compounded natural hormones goes on.

It started with pharmaceutical manufacturer, Wyeth, who petitioned the FDA to disallow the mixing of pharmaceuticals, especially natural human hormones, by specially trained pharmacists at what are called "compounding pharmacies." These are pharmacies that have special equipment and where trained pharmacists can mix up specific preparations for dispensing. These are available by prescription.

For instance, I have been prescribing natural human testosterone and progesterone for nearly 10 years. I have found service to be excellent, with lots of learning materials provided to patients by the pharmacy. The pharmacists I've spoken to have been courteous and knowledgeable. Compounded hormones are also shockingly less expensive. While a testosterone patch from a pharmaceutical company costs around $4.00 per day, the same quantity of testosterone cream formulated by a compouding pharmacy costs around $0.50 per day--87.5% less.

Wyeth hides behind a smoke screen of concern over quality. But the price differences tells the entire story: they want to eliminate the inexpensive competition and hold us all hostage to the far more expensive, often inferior products that they produce. They'd sooner force a woman to use horse-derived Premarin than to allow her access to human estrogens and progesterone.

To me, this is an outrageous affront to our freedom of choice, both as consumers as well as a physician. If you feel as strongly as I do about opposing the unfair and bullying ways of Wyeth Pharmaceuticals and the FDA, the P2C2 association of compounding pharmacists makes writing a letter to your Senator easy by going to

http://iacprx.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=P2C2

Just enter your info and personalize the comments, and the e-mails will be generated for you.

Lipitor and memory

At first, I was skeptical. A book from a nutty author and physician named Duane Graveline kept on coming up in conversations with patients. His book, Lipitor: Thief of Memory , details his personal experience with dramatic changes in memory and thought while taking Lipitor.



Now this is a drug that I've seen used thousands of times. But I've now seen about a dozen people who have had distinct struggles with memory and clarity of thinking while taking Lipitor. Most took doses of 40 mg per day or more, though an occasional person takes as little as 10 mg. The association seems to be undeniable, since it improves after two weeks off the drug, recurs when resumed. Just today, I saw two people where this effect may be an issue.

Curiously, I've not seen it with any other statin agent. Unfortunately, uncovering any scientific data on the issue is a hopeless quest. Either it's very uncommon or, worse, the data has been suppressed.

Any way, I believe that Dr. Graveline was right: Lipitor, in a small number of people, does indeed seem to exert real detrimental effects on the mind.

If you take Lipitor, should you stop it in fear of long-term effects on your mental capacity? I think it's premature to toss the drug out based on this relatively uncommon relationship. This particular effect is likely to be idiosyncratic, i.e., peculiar to an occasional person but does not seem to apply to the majority, probably by some quirk of metabolism or penetrability of the barrier between the blood and nervous system tissue.

If, however, you feel that your thinking and memory have deteriorated on the drug, please speak to your doctor.

EKG's and heart disease


How helpful are EKG's for detecting hidden heart disease?

I pose this question because several patients asked this question just this week. It's also a frequent point of confusion and misperception.

Your EKG is nothing more than an expression of the surface electrical activity emitted by heart muscle activity. Multiple (12) leads are attached to the body simply to provide various "views" of this electical activity. EKG, or sometimes "ECG", is short for "electrocardiogram".

What modifies this surface electrical activity? Anything that modifies the electrical activity within the heart itself, or interferes with the detection of the activity. An old heart attack modifies the patterns of electrical conduction in the heart and that can change your EKG. An ongoing heart heart attack likewise. High blood pressure commonly creates changes in the EKG, as does lung disease. A bellyache can change your EKG, as can a stroke. (These non-heart-related phenomena probably are often due to changes in autonomic, or "automatic," nervous system activity.) The heart generates electrical activity in a predictable sequence that generates the heart beat, or "rhythm". EKG's are useful for monitoring heart rhythm, also.

Does having plaque in your coronary arteries have any effect on the EKG? None whatsoever, unless plaque rupture caused heart attack or is about to cause heart attack. So, you can have a horrendous CT heart scan score of, say, 3000, yet maintain a perfectly normal EKG, as long as the heart muscle is normal.

Then why bother with these iffy tests? They are indeed useful to diagnose the cause of active symptoms. For instance, go to the ER with chest pain and an EKG could show changes suggesting that the chest pain is a heart attack. EKG's are also useful for future comparison. Any change in EKG can suggest certain things, like new heart rhythm disturbances unrelated to coronary plaque.

Think of your EKG as just like buying a used car. Say I'm trying to sell you my 1999 Buick Century. It looks pretty good from the outside and I tell you that it has 70,000 miles and runs well. You ask to open the hood, look in the interior and take it out for a drive. I tell you no, you can't do that.

Would you buy the car? Of course you wouldn't. You were permitted only a very superficial examination of the car. You have no idea what's going on inside. Just because the paint job looks brand new doesn't mean the engine and transmission are good.

The same with your EKG: It's a superficial look at one aspect of this used car called your heart. If the EKG is normal, that's good, just like a good exterior on the Buick. But you cannot assume that the heart is otherwise normal.

View the EKG as a simple, superficial test that can only provide minimal reassurance, no matter how often you have it done.

A new Track Your Plaque record

Neal, a 40-year old school principal, and his young wife were terrified on learning of his CT heart scan score of 339, a concerningly high score for any age, particularly age 40.

To make matters worse, all of Neal's plaque was located in the critical left mainstem coronary artery, the shared stem of two of the three coronary arteries. A heart attack in this location is instantly fatal.

So, it was especially gratifying that Neal has set the Track Your Plaque record for largest magnitude of plaque reversal: 51% in his first year.

Studies that show a reduction in heart attack make the news. They talk about 1, 2, up to 6% regression, all achieved with high doses of statin drugs. Yet we are seeing huge, extraordinary quantities of heart disease reversal that haven't yet made headlines, amounts that far exceed those featured in the news. We should be encouraged by experiences like Neal's.

Watch for the upcoming Track Your Plaque newsletter for more details on Neal's story--how he came to the program, how he accomplished this huge effect, and why his experience was such a success. If you haven't yet subscribed, go to the www.cureality.com homepage and click on the upper right hand corner.

The Plavix Scam

Periodically, I'll see a flurry of TV ads for Plavix. It comes with a polished computer-animated cartoon that shows how platelets clump and form a blood clot, causing heart attack.

Imagine there's a pile of oil-soaked rags in a corner of your garage. I come by and tell you to get a good fire extinguisher to keep next to the rag pile in case they spontaneously ignite.

Does that make sense to you?

Wouldn't it be better to get rid of the oily rags and forget about the fire extinguisher?

Plavix is the fire extinguisher. The oil rags are your coronary plaque. The solution is to gain control over plaque behavior. Unfortunately, the TV ads (intentionally, I suspect) give the impression that blood clots just form out of the blue for no reason. Of course that's not true. It requires active, growing, inflamed atheroslcerotic plaque that ruptures, uncovering the "angry" and platelet-adhering material underneath the thin covering or endothelial lining.

Urging everybody to take Plavix is absurd. The TV ads urge many people who have no business taking the drug to take it. There are, without a doubt, groups of people who are better off taking Plavix and aspirin: people who are in the midst of heart attack, people who have unstable plaque, people with recent stents or bypass. Perhaps people at high risk for plaque rupture, e.g., extensive coronary plaque that has continued to grow.

These tactics are consistent with the experiences I've had with the sales representatives from the company (when I used to actually talk to sales reps; my office is now barred from them). The reps very aggressively would urge me to consider having everyone take Plavix. No kidding.


For us, i.e., for people who just have a heart scan score but interested in engaging in a powerful program of prevention and reversal, Plavix rarely provides any advantage. The answer is, just like our oily rag analogy, control the plaque, not put out the fire.

Lipoprotein(a) and small LDL

You won't find a lot of scientific validation for this, but it is my firm impression that small LDL, by some crazy means, has the capacity to "turn on" or "turn off" lipoprotein(a), Lp(a).

Recall that Lp(a) is a specific genetic trait, passed to us (if you have it) by mother or father. It falsely elevates LDL cholesterol and escalates heart disease risk more than just about any other known abnormality.

A frequent hint that Lp(a) might be present is a comment I hear often from patients: "My doctor said statin cholesterol drugs don't work for me. I tried them all and my cholesterol won't go down." Or, the result was substantially less than expected. That's because, when Lp(a) is lurking in your cholesterol value, it is unaffected by the statins.

It's been my in-the-trenches observation that, the more fully expressed the small LDL pattern becomes, the worse the Lp(a) behaves. In other words, if small LDL is suppressed effectively, Lp(a) doesn't seem to carry the same dangers as in someone who has plenty of small LDL. I don't know why this is. (I expect that the answer will come from someone like Dr. Marcovina at Stanford, who is at the forefront of Lp(a) structural research. Lp(a) is a complex molecule with several components. How and why it interacts with other particles remains a mystery.)

There are a little bit of data to confirm this. The Quebec Cardiovascular Study has presented some data to this effect, that the combination of small LDL particles and Lp(a) are a particularly lethal combination. We are trying to correlate our data from a CT heart score perspective to discern any statistical relationships.

This raises a very important therapeutic issue if you have Lp(a): the worst thing you can do if you have Lp(a) is become overweight. Excess abdominal fat is a huge trigger to create small LDL particles. Even though being overweight itself has no effect on the measured level of Lp(a), it activates small LDL which, in turn, throws gasoline on the Lp(a) fire.

If you have Lp(a), stay skinny.

Optimal medical therapy

I was re-reading some of the details behind the recently announced COURAGE Trial comparing angioplasty/stent in 1100 people compared to "optimal" medical therapy in another 1100. You'll recall that no difference was found.

In particular, over approximately 5 years, 20% of participants in each group died, experienced heart attacks, or strokes. Of those treated with "timal" medical therapy, 32% ended up getting a procedure like stents or bypass anyway due to deteriorating symptoms.

What is "optimal" medical therapy? I bring this up again because the study investigators in COURAGE, as well as in similar trials, say this with a straight face. Optimal medical therapy means aspirin and/or Plavix (the anti-platelet, aspirin-like blood thinner); "aggressive" statin drug therapy to reduce LDL cholesterol to 60-85 mg/dl; and "anti-ischemic" therapy (that reduces angina and the phenomena of poor coronary blood flow) using nitroglycerin preparations, beta blockers, and other drugs.

I do give credit to the investigators for having the courage to perform this trial in a world hell bent on doing procedures and still reporting the neutral outcome. But the notion of "optimal" medical therapy begs for comment.

Indeed, this is regarded as optimal by most practitioners. Some would even argue excessive, based on the low LDL target achieved. Would you be satisfied with a 20% likelihood of heart attack, stroke, or death or 5 years, a 1 in 5 roll of the dice? I would not. Recall that we aim for near-total elimination of risk.

What could have been further "optimized"? Plenty. For instance:

--What is the real LDL, not the fabricated, calculated LDL? The two can be commonly 100 mg/dl different.

--How about raising HDL to 60 mgd/?

--What about reducing the proportion of small LDL particles? After all, small LDL is the number one cause of heart disease in the U.S., not high LDL.

--What is Lp(a)? If you treat LDL with a statin drug, Lp(a) is unaffected and continues to trigger huge plaque growth. You will fail if this is not identified and corrected.

--What is vitamin D3? One of the most powerful facilitators of plaque reversal I know of.

--What are triglycerides? Triglycerides create hidden particles in the blood like intermediate-density lipoprotein, potent triggers for coronary plaque growth. Speaking of intermediate-density lipoprotein, that's another very important pattern to identify, the after-eating persistence of dietary fats.

--Why aren't they taking fish oil? With a 28% reduction in heart attack and 45% reduction in sudden death from heart attack, this alone would have halved the number of "events" in the "optimal" medical treatment group.

Of course, there's more. But the idea that aspirin, statins, and anti-ischemic therapy is somehow optimal is silly and sad at the same time. But that's the bias. The COURAGE Trial does represent a step forward, a step away from the "stent everyone and everything" mentality that motivates my colleagues, aided and abetted by their co-conspirators, the hospitals. But you and I know better. "Optimal" medical therapy, in truth, can mean a far better approach that can dramatically reduce, perhaps eliminate, risks for events like heart attack. The conventional "optimal" medical therapy will suffice only if you're content with a 20% likelihood of heart attack, death or stroke, or a 32% likelihood of an urgent procedure in your future.

Niacin, postprandial patterns

For a detailed report on the very important postprandial (after eating) patterns that contribute hugely to heart disease risk, read my recent article in Life Extension Magazine, available (no cost) at:

Uncovering a Hidden Source of Cardiovascular Disease Risk
at http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/mar2007_report_heart_01.htm


For a report on using niacin to reduce risk of heart disease, see another report in the same issue of Life Extension:

Ask the Doctor: Using Niacin to Improve Cardiovascular Health
at
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/mar2007_atd_01.htm.

Also, keep your eyes open for a lengthy report focused exclusively on the Track Your Plaque program in an upcoming issue of Life Extension. I'll provide links in this Blog when it comes out.

What's better than fish oil?

One of the recent questions on our Track Your Plaque Forum related to what to do about a triglyceride level of 101 mg/dl while on fish oil.

Recall that, contary to conventional thinking like that articulated in the ATP-III cholesterol treatment guidelines, we aim to reduce triglycerides to 60 mg/dl or less. This is important to suppress the formation of abnormal triglyceride-containing lipoprotein particles, especially small LDL, reduced HDL, lack of healthy large HDL, VLDL. ATP-III advises a level of 150 mg/dl or less. Unfortunately, triglyceride levels this high guarantee appearance of all these undesirable particles and an increasing heart scan score.

What's better than 4000 mg of fish oil for its 1200 mg of EPA and DHA (omega-3 fatty acids)? More fish oil. In other words, the 4000 mg fish oil providing 1200 mg EPA + DHA is our minimum. A simple increase to 6000 mg to provide 1800 mg EPA + DHA is usually all that is necessary to reduce triglycerides and put a halt to the cascade of abnormal lipoprotein particles that trigger plaque growth. Occasionally, a somewhat higher dose may be required. Doses are best divided into two, with meals (e.g., three capsules twice a day).

Another important issue: An over-reliance on wheat products can also increase triglycerides. This includes any flour product like breads (regardless of whether it's white, whole wheat, or whole grain--they all raise triglycerides), pretzels, bagels, breakfast cereals, and pasta. A dramatic reduction in wheat-containing products will reduce triglycerides substantially, help you reduce your abdominal fat, reduce blood pressure, raise HDL and reduce small LDL, clear your mind, provide more energy, avoid afternoon "fogginess" . . . Huge benefits.

Valve disease and vitamin D

There are two common forms of heart valve disease: aortic valve stenosis (stiffness) and insufficiency (leakiness), and mitral anular calcification.

Both valve issues are regarded as evidence of senescence, or aging--the older you are, the more likely you will have one or both. Both conditions involve progressive calcium deposition and, to some degree, cholesterol deposition. They might be regarded as phenomena of "wear and tear" just like hip arthritis.

There are no known therapies to stall or stop the development of mitral anular calcification. However, several attempts have been made over the years to identify treatments that can slow or stop the progression of aortic valve disease, which is becoming increasingly common and is addressed by surgical valve replacement when severe. The most recent trials have examined whether high-dose Lipitor (80 mg) has any effect (it did not) and high dose Crestor (40 mg), which slowed but did not stop the deterioration of stiff valves.

It's been my suspicion that vitamins D and K2 may play a crucial factor in valve health. After all, vitamin D is the master controller of calcium deposition. Preliminary data also suggest that people who are intentionally made vitamin K deficient with the drug, Coumadin, develop twice the calcium deposition on aortic valves that non-Coumadin takers develop.

I saw a patient Friday, Marianne. In addition to a moderate heart scan score of 379 at age 71, Marianne had a leaky (insufficient) aortic valve. By an echocardiogram 18 months ago, the valve was moderately leaky. I put Marianne on vitamin D, 4000 units, to raise her blood level to 50 ng/ml.

Last week, I asked Marianne to have another echocardiogram. This time, no leakiness whatsoever--none. I have never seen this happen before. Although Marianne is only one example and we don't want to extrapolate too far from the experience of one person, it's hard not to attribute this phenomenal response to vitamin D supplementation.

I wonder what would have happened if we had added vitamin K2, as well?

Anyway, just another potential wonderful effect of vitamin D restoration.
Is skinny necessary for reversal?

Is skinny necessary for reversal?

Nothing we do in the Track Your Plaque program guarantees that coronary atherosclerotic plaque or your heart scan score is reduced or reversed.



But everything we do weighs the odds in your favor of successfully achieving reversal: correction of lipoprotein patterns, uncovering hidden patterns like Lp(a), vitamin D, being optimistic--it all tips the scales in your favor.

But how necessary is it to be skinny, meaning somewhere near your ideal weight?

It is important, but not as important as it used to be. Let me explain.

I used to tell people that plaque would not regress unless ideal weight was achieved and all the parameters of abdominal obesity and metabolic syndrome were corrected. This includes blood pressure, blood sugar, low HDL, small LDL, high triglycerides, and high c-reactive protein. Curiously, though, as we've gotten better and better at reducing coronary calcium scores, I've been finding that complete correction of all parameters, including achieving ideal weight, don't seem to be as necessary to achieve plaque reversal.

I almost hate to say this, but I've even witnessed significant drops in heart scan scores in people with body mass indexes (BMI) of 30--obese.

The necessary change doesn't seem to be weight, per se, but the consequences of weight. In other words, if you remain overweight, but blood sugar, HDL, small LDL, etc. have shown substantial improvement, then reversal is still achievable.

Then is it okay to be fat or overweight?

Reducing weight to ideal weight does indeed tip the scales in your favor, since it represents an observable, perceptible measure of all associated patterns. Dropping weight can also minimize the need for efforts to correct the consequences of overweight--you might need less niacin, fish oil, exercise, blood pressure medication, etc. to succeed at plaque reversal. Achieving ideal weight may also provide benefits like reduced risk of cancers and degenerative diseases of the hips and knees. But, to my recent surprise over the last two years, achieving ideal weight is not an absolute requirement to achieve reversal.

This is contrary to what some others say. For instance, in an upcoming interview with Dr. Joel Fuhrman on the Track Your Plaque website, Dr. Fuhrman argues that 10% body fat for males, 22% body fat for females, accelerates plaque and symptom reversal. Dr. Fuhrman is author of Fasting and Eating for Health, Eat to Live, and a new upcoming 2-part book, Eat for Health, and proponent of high-nutrient vegetarian diets and fasting. Dr. Fuhrman has been helpful in teaching us some important lessons on how to apply periodic fasting to accelerate plaque reversal.

So, which is it, fat or skinny?

If given a choice (which everyone has), I'd choose skinny. But, provided all the parameters associated with overweight are corrected, then remaining overweight doesn't necessarily mean that you can't still succeed at plaque reversal.

If you are interested in knowing what your ideal weight is, there are a number of software calculators and tables available, including the HealthCentral.com calculator and the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute BMI Calculator.


Image courtesy Wikipedia.

Copyright William Davis, MD 2008

Comments (19) -

  • Nancy M.

    1/6/2008 9:25:00 PM |

    It all falls in line with obesity being another marker for an overall metabolic condition, not being the *cause* of the metabolic condition.  

    The biggest disservice the medical establishment has done is ignore the evidence of this and continue to prescribe a diet that just makes it all worse and worse.

    I'm glad you're spreading the good word!

  • Peter

    1/8/2008 1:32:00 PM |

    Hi Dr Davis,

    Another cracking post. It reminds me distinctly of a long discussion on Dr Bernstein's site as to whether weight loss to ideal weight is needed to normalise blood sugars in a type 2 diabetic. You appear to be looking at another aspect of the metabolic syndrome, IHD. And it appears to be quite obvious that weight loss, per se, is irrelevant to both IHD and normoglycaemia, PROVIDED you normalise the problems described as the metabolic syndrome.

    Furnham and fasting is equally interesting. One has to ask; what happens during fasting? A full water fast to might be expected to give up to a kilo of weight loss each week perhaps? I've never tried this, but would guess this is reasonable. With flat-line basal glucose and insulin levels. That's just under 150g/d of weight loss, of which perhaps at least 100g/d is body fat. Mostly palmitic acid with some palmitoleic thrown in.

    The fat does not just evaporate. This is what a person's metabolism runs on during fasting. Mostly saturated fat. And fasting is excellent for plaque reversal, we're told. And I believe it.

    The question to me is, what would happen if you replaced that lost fat, by mouth, with similar fat (palmitic and palmitoleic, ie lard) to produce weight stability? Would you continue reversal without fasting? Perhaps throwing in 50g/d high quality protein to stop muscle loss.

    Obviously anyone on a low fat diet, needing to maintain weight stability, requires a high carbohydrate intake with its associated and inevitable post prandial hyper-insulinaemia. No insulin, no glucose uptake. We need calories to live. 1000kcal of lettuce needs insulin for every molecule of glucose it releases. Once a low fat vegan has lost their palmitic acid based excess weight, they'll be right back on to glucose based metabolism.

    Fasting is fat fueled. It works for reversal. Whether from your adipocytes or your plate, it's the same palmitic acid.

    Peter

  • Dr. Davis

    1/8/2008 1:39:00 PM |

    Hi, Peter-

    Interesting thoughts.

    It makes me wonder again whether there are ways to accelerate the process of plaque reversal. While we typically achieve it in a 12-18 month long timeline, could it be achieved in a less than 4 week period? Could we do so by using specific nutrient manipulations during fasting?

    I don't know, but I'm hoping that we can inch towards some insight towards this process.

  • Anonymous

    1/8/2008 3:26:00 PM |

    It's pretty strange seeing you promoting a Vegan doc...flies in the face of much of what you've been talking about.  And water-only fasts are tremendously muscle-wasting.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/8/2008 3:47:00 PM |

    I'm not promoting anybody.

    I am entertaining interesting concepts from people who provide unique or differing views.

    Coronary disease is potentially a life-threatening disease. If I need to sacrifice some recoverable muscle mass in order to substantially control or reverse it, then it's a small price to pay.

  • Peter

    1/8/2008 8:30:00 PM |

    Anonymous,

    If I could just clarify my own opinion:

    A vegan on a water fast, after the first 2 days, is living on animal fat and animal protein. Their own. They will obviously die if they continue, although possibly without arteriosclerosis (makes you think of Pritkin). Supplying that same person with 150g of lard and 9 whole eggs (biologically eggs are the highest value protein according to the WHO) per day will provide the same metabolic conditions as fasting without the fasting, weight loss or muscle loss. The question then is whether this will continue the rapid reversal of arteriosclerosis. That is open to debate, and no doubt we all will have our opinions. I invite the use of logic. I've said before, I visit here as Dr Davis is open to ideas which do not necessarily tally with his own. That's good.

    Peter

  • wccaguy

    1/9/2008 2:14:00 AM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I'm not a doctor or a scientist so what do I know?  nothing...  And I'm probably not going to restate Peter's argument very well.

    But it seems to me that in the rethinking of diet that you're engaged in, partially triggered by the Taubes book, you're going to need to address this argument that Peter makes.  I had never heard that argument before but I can't think of an escape from the logic of it, namely:

    1) during fasts, plaque regresses, 2) during fasts, body fat (which Peter says is mostly saturated fat) is used to provide energy, but 3)  how could plaque regress if a metabolism running on saturated fat was harmful to that regression process?

    It would be very interesting to hear what Dr. Fuhrman thinks about this too.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/9/2008 3:26:00 AM |

    Hi, WC--

    I don't have a pat answer for you, but I think the conversation opens up some very fascinating avenues for further thought and exploration.

    Of course, fatty acids do not just enter and exit cells passively depending on concentration gradients, but do so under the control and influence of a number of factors.

    Nonetheless, I think we are onto something, this idea of "enhanced fasting" to achieve accelerated reversal. Hmmmm....

  • chickadeenorth

    1/9/2008 5:52:00 AM |

    Just a thought, don'T know if its related or not....When people stalled out on weight loss Atkins suggested a fat FasT for 4 or so days eating macadamina nuts,olives, egg salad with whole fat mayo,even a few T OF OLIVE OIL.It seemed to reboot the metabolism...don't know about plague reversal but it stopped hunger and people started to lose again, he said not too do this until the plateau was a month long, I cant recall exact time frames.
    Its so contrary to what we have been led to beleive but if I knew it would reverse my plague I would do it, but would have to see how to balance BG, maybe have to go off glucopaghe while doing it and monitor lots.

    Several on Bernsteins site fast alot in the week to regain control of bg.

  • wccaguy

    1/9/2008 11:30:00 AM |

    I read your new special report at  Track Your Plaque that is an interview with Dr. Fuhrman on fasting and had some thoughts.

    I confess that my head is still spinning by the argument that Peter has made in his comments to this post.

    When I first read Peter's argument, it reminded me more than anything else of the first paragraph of Gary Taubes' NYT Magazine article a few years back when he described the irony that would be many doctors standing naked in Times Square moment:

    Dr. Fuhrman, an ardent vegan, promotes fasting as a helpful solution for reducing plaque without realizing and surely without understanding that the reason the solution works is because it amounts to increased animal fat consumption.

    I have to say that I'm completely unimpressed by any explanation or theory Dr. Fuhrman's put forward, either in his first book or in his interview with you, about WHY fasting works to regress plaque or at least reduce angina symptoms.

    Am I missing something and he actually can and does explain why it works?

    Peter, on the other hand, has put a theory on the table about why it works that could be tested, right?  Or has it already been tested?

    If and when the moment comes when a lot of doctors are standing naked in Times Square, I'm going to be there with a camera.  lol

    As always Dr. D, thanks for the post and for attracting some great minds who make posts that are fascinating reads.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/9/2008 1:42:00 PM |

    To my knowledge, formal clinical research on the effects of fasting (i.e., controlled "starvation") are woefully limited. I know of no studies that examine the effects of specific nutrient feeding to fasting or starving subjects. But it would be fascinating.

  • Anonymous

    1/10/2008 2:33:00 PM |

    The other aspect in common between fasting and a very low-carb diet are the ketones. It might be that the ketones are responsible for a bettering of heart condition as it is most efficient fuel we can use.

    There is a difference though between them, one is catabolic the other is anabolic, so they may not be exactly equivalent.

    Just some random thoughts.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/10/2008 4:16:00 PM |

    What an interesting idea!

  • Peter

    1/10/2008 9:15:00 PM |

    Excellent point

    Yasiwaya points out that ketosis restores the mitochiondrial function lost in insulin resistance, best quote:

    "The ability of a physiologic ratio of ketone bodies to correct most of the metabolic defects of acute insulin deficiency suggests therapeutic roles for these natural substrates during periods of impaired cardiac performance and in insulin-resistant states"

    Some of the other papers by this author, available in full text by hitting "related links" suggest a deep in depth knowledge, but they're way beyond me.

    For those of us who long ago abandoned the cholesterol hypothesis, hyperinsulinaemia and insulin resistance are the driving forces of IHD. The Yudkin/Stout camp. Ketosis appears to side step insulin resistance, be that in the myocardium or the cells of the arterial media. I would wholely agree this is a useful step in IHD and may well be where the benefits come from.

    Peter

  • Dr. Davis

    1/10/2008 10:11:00 PM |

    I have to admit that I hadn't thought of ketosis as a process with its own health consequences, just as a consequence itself. This may be worth investigating!

  • Anonymous

    1/11/2008 2:26:00 PM |

    Dr Davis,  been meaning to mention, I've been informed that the company Vassol Inc, there web sight is http://www.vassolinc.com/, has succeeded in being able to scan the "moving" heart with an MRI machine.  I was told that the company is now working with the NIH in conducting further studies.  Thought you might find interesting as I imagine an MRI would be helpful with wanting to check quick progress on patients.

  • e4e

    8/8/2008 3:57:00 AM |

    Yeah but...

    Why use BMI? Why not use body fat directly instead?

  • Bruce K

    8/12/2008 7:30:00 PM |

    Peter, I would use butter, ghee, or beef fat instead of lard (2-4% PUFA vs 12%). You're wrong that eating a high lard diet would be the same as fasting. On a fast, you don't eat a gram of PUFAs. 150g of lard has 18g of PUFAs. 150g of beef tallow has 3 to 4.5 grams, or 1/4 to 1/6 as much as lard. Ruminant animals are best. Also, eggs are unnecessary. You can eat fat from meat, butter, and some organ meats every now and then. The eggs have more than PUFAs than beef and butter fat. To really reproduce the fasting state, I would keep the PUFAs as low as possible (3-4g).

  • Anonymous

    1/31/2011 5:44:48 AM |

    Fasting induces autophagy, a process that recycles cellular structures that range in size from proteins to organelles. It's central to many processes of biological repair.

    Research in autophagy is growing very fast, and must be relevant here.

    (BTW, niacin and other antilipolytic agents also induce autophagy.)

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