Homocysteine and coronary plaque

If you’ve watched the news over the past year, you know that doubt has been cast over the idea that reducing homocysteine blood levels with high doses of B vitamins (B6, B12, and folic acid, or B9) results in reduced risk for heart attack.

Is the homocysteine concept dead? Shall we empty our bottles of costly B vitamins into the trash and move on?

I don’t think so. As detailed in one of our Track Your Plaque Special Reports from a few months ago, I think the homocysteine issue still deserves lots of respect and further investigation. After all, hundreds of clinical studies have connected higher homocysteine levels with greater risk for heart disease, stroke, and aneurysm. Numerous studies, for example, have repeatedly and consistently demonstrated a tripling of heart attack risk when homocysteine levels exceed 14 ?mol/l. Can we dismiss this association because several more recent studies—NORVIT, HOPE, and VISP—suggested that, when starting homocysteine levels are 12.5, that B vitamin supplementation does not reduce heart attack risk?

I think there’s lots more to know about the homocysteine connection. That said, I have never seen a patient who I thought had heart disease strictly because homocysteine was increased.

I believe that we can at least use homocysteine as an index of lifestyle: the higher the homocysteine, the poorer the diet, or the less effective the absorption of B vitamins (especially vitamins B12 and folic acid). Homocysteine levels of <9 micromol/l suggest both adequate intake and absorption of these B vitamins.

If homocysteine is tightly connected with risk for heart disease, yet supplementation of B vitamins fails to reduce risk, might there be another means of connection? Or, could both homocysteine and heart disease be connected in some way that has nothing to do with B vitamins?

Don’t close the book on homocysteine. Just because conventional experience fails to draw connection does not necessarily mean that none exists. If it’s any consolation, taking B vitamins has been correlated with better memory, concentration, and other health benefits, even if no reduction in heart disease develops.

Big heart scan scores drop

High heart scan scores of, say, greater than 1000 are more difficult to reduce than lower scores.

I learned this lesson early in the experience of trying to drop scores. In the first few years of trying to drop scores, I saw relatively modest scores of 20, 50, or 100 drop readily, even when the usual targets were not fully achieved, and even before the incorporation of some of the more exciting recent additions to the Track Your Plaque program, like vitamin D.

But big scores of 1000, 2000, or 3000 are a tougher nut to crack. In the first few years, what I usually saw was a slowing , or "deceleration," of growth from the expected rate of annual score increase of 30% that would continue for a year or two, followed by zero change. In the first year of effort, for example, a score increase of 18% was common. 10% was common in year two, then finally zero change in year three. Somehow, the more plaque you begin with, the more "momentum" in growth is present and the longer it takes to stop it. Kind of like stopping a compact car versus stopping a freight train.

But more recently, I'm seeing faster drops. Today, Charlie came to the office to discuss his second heart scan. 18 months earlier, Charlie's first scan showed a score of 3,112, high by anybody's standard.

His repeat score: 3,048. While the drop is relatively small on a percentage basis and may even fall within the expected rate of error for heart scans (which tends to be <2% at this high a score), I told Charlie that it still represented a huge success. Not only did he not increase his score by the expected 30% per year, he also brought a charging locomotive to a rapid stop.

Next year, Charlie is targeting a big drop. Given the tools he now has available, I'm optimistic that he will succeed.

Watch for the Track Your Plaque May, 2007 Newsletter in which we will detail Charlie's story further.

Does the American Heart Association diet reduce heart disease?

If you have a heart attack and land in the hospital where, invariably, you will have a heart procedure. Or, if you get a stent or coronary bypass operation, sometime before your discharge from the hospital, a well-meaning hospital staff dietitian will provide instruction in the American Heart Association (AHA) diet.

Does this diet reduce the risk of heart disease?

The answer depends on where you start. If you begin with a conventional American diet that is enormously influenced by convenience, food manufacturers like Nabisco, General Mills, Quaker Oats, ADM, and Cargill, or food distributors like McDonald’s, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell, then the American Heart Association diet is indeed an improvement. But just a small one. If LDL cholesterol is the yardstick, the average reduction in LDL is between 10 and 15 mg/dl. This is the same amount of change you’d experience by adding 1 tablespoon of oat bran to your diet. Hardly worth boasting about. HDL, triglycerides, blood glucose, and body weight do not change.

The diet could be substantially better. After all, it’s become common knowledge that other diets, such as the so-called Mediterranean diet, the South Beach Diet, and similar broad projects result in far greater changes than the AHA diet dispensed by your hospital and cardiologist. These diets more effectively reduce LDL, raise HDL, reduce triglycerides, reduce C-reactive protein, reduce blood pressure. Diets like South Beach also yield substantial weight loss and reversal of diabetic tendencies, with the magnitude of benefit dependent on the amount of weight lost.

Why this stubborn adherence to the outdated concepts articulated in the AHA diet? Cardiologists would argue that insufficient data has been generated to permit widespread application of these diets. They also differ on whether they really work. Of course, the majority remain ignorant and dismiss them as fad diets.

A little digging into the financial disclosures of the AHA suggests another, more malignant influence: who is paying the bills? Until recently, drug manufacturers were major contributors to the AHA. However, more recently AHA administrators have become sensitive to the public perception that they might be nothing more than a voice box for the drug industry. They have since limited contributions from the drug companies to 8% of annual charitable revenues.

The drug manufacturers have been replaced by the food industry. In addition to food manufacturers that make the cereals on your grocery shelf, it includes the multi-national conglomerates that produce unimaginable revenues and carry enormous political clout, like ADM and Cargill. Ever wonder how it is that Honey Nut Cheerios received a “Heart Healthy” endorsement from the AHA?

The AHA diet does not provide the answers we’re looking for, not even close. It is a perversion from an organization that has its strings pulled by industry. The answers to health will not come from the AHA, AMA, the American College of Cardiology, the American Hospital Association, and it won’t come from your doctor. It won’t come from a titillating report on the evening news or Good Morning America. It will come from collective and expanding wisdom placed directly into the hands of the public. It will be untainted by the temptation of drug industry dollars. It will not be dirtied by million dollar contributions, or the multi-million dollar behind-closed-doors lobbying of the food manufacturers. It will come from the truth relayed to the healthcare-consuming public. I hope you recognize it when you see it.

If you want a healthy diet for your heart, throw away the pamphlets from the AHA unless you are partial to bread, breakfast cereals, corn, and the supporters of their misguided nutritional advice.

Vitamin K2 and coronary plaque

The vitamin K2 story, though still preliminary, is becoming increasingly interesting from the perspective of CT heart score reduction.

The origin of this concept came from some unexpected observations. One, the observation that osteoporosis (lack of bone calcium that leads to fractures) arises from deficiency of vitamin K2. Two, deficiency of K2 leads to unrestrained calcium deposition in animal models, leading to heart attack in just weeks.

Vitamin K2 has been largely ignored for years, since the more widely understood K1 is rarely deficient. K1 deficiency can occur from prolonged antibiotic use, or from severe malnutrition. But deficiency in otherwise well people is very uncommon. Vitamin K2, however, may be a different story. Deficiency may be common.

The Rotterdam Heart Study of cheese-eating Dutch showed that greater K2 intakes resulted in a halving of heart attacks. Cheese (traditional varieties, not Velveeta or other make-believe cheese products) is a modest source of K2, as is the Japanese native food, natto. (If you've ever seen natto, I dare you to eat it. I have a pretty strong stomach and curiousity for food, but natto is the one thing I could not eat--it is truly horrible.)

The weight of evidence suggests that vitamin K2 supplementation may prove to be a useful addition to your coronary plaque control program. Clearly, more data are needed, particulary therapeutic obserations, i.e., observing people who take dose X of a K2 prepartion and tracking some feedback measure, e.g., bone density, CT heart scan score, "events" like heart attack, etc.

Nonetheless, the K2 story is clearly worth reading about, perhaps even considering supplementation. Please watch for the Special Report on the www.cureality.com website in the coming days.

Exercise and blood pressure

The media has gotten a hold of a case report from the University of Maryland describing a 51-year old physician who, despite being a long distance runner, had a high heart scan score.

An example of the report can be found at

Heart Disease In A Marathon Runner: Is Too Much Exercise A Bad Thing?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070315091100.htm in Science Daily.



"The mystery was all the more intriguing because his resting blood pressure and fasting cholesterol levels, the usual measures of cardiovascular health, were in the normal range."


When this man was put on a treadmill for a stress test, his blood pressure skyrocketed from a normal 118/78 to 230/78--extremely high, even for exercise. The physicians reporting the case raised the question of whether long-distance running represents a risk for heart disease and if the high blood pressure with exercise is a contributor or cause of the high heart scan score.

These are phenomena we are very familiar with. We have stressed the importance of exercise blood pressure as a trigger for coronary plaque for years. While 230/78 is clearly too high, we find that any blood pressure over 170/80 with exercise adds to the fire and can trigger plaque growth.

However, I think it is absurd to suggest that marathon running itself is a trigger of coronary plaque. I think it is far more likely that the person described in the report had lipoprotein(a), a potent trigger for both exercise-induced hypertension and high CT heart scan scores in seemingly well people. He likely also suffered from a deficiency of vitamin D deficiency, another contributor. There's no need to indict exercise.

If you are in the Track Your Plaque program, you know that stress tests are of questionable helpfulness for the detection of hidden heart disease. But they are useful for assessment of blood pressure responses during exercise. If BP exceeds 170/80 at 10 mets (a measure of exercise effort achieved by walking 3.4 mph at a 14% grade for 3 minutes), then blood pressure may be a contributor to your heart scan score.

"Fish oil is stupid"

"Fish oil is a waste of time and money. It's stupid. Just stop it."

So a patient of mine was advised by another physician when he complained that he occasionally experienced a fishy aftertaste.

This attitude perplexes me. After all the confirmatory data that support the enormous health benefits of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation, including the 11,000 participant GISSI-Prevenzione Trial, you'd think this attitude would be history. What's a little fish aftertaste when heart attack risk is slashed 28%?

Perhaps the tendency to pooh-pooh fish oil is because it's available as a nutritional supplement. This shouldn't make fish oil appear inconsequential. Far from it.

If you witness the extraordinary power for fish oil to reduce triglycerides, you will be immediately convinced of its effectiveness. The ability of omega-3 fatty acids from fish to eliminate intermediate-density lipoprotein (IDL), the persistent abnormal lipoprotein which signals an inability to clear dietary fats from the blood, can also convince you. More than 90% of people with excessive IDL have it completely eliminated by 4000-6000 mg of fish oil (providing 1200-1800 mg EPA + DHA) per day.

The fact that fish oil is available as a prescription "medication," as well as an over-the-counter supplement, causes some physicians to dismiss the power of the supplemental form. This is nonsense. The over-the-counter form is every bit as effective as the prescription form.

The makers of prescription Omacor also make the claim that their preparation is safer and purer. That may be true, but I'd like to see independent verification from the FDA, USDA, or an unbiased organization like Consumer Reports before I accept their marketing as fact--particularly at $120 to $240 per month! If Omacor proves to contain substantially less mercury and pesticide residues, then that will need to be factored in. (Please note that both Consumer Reports and Consumer Labs measured no substantial mercury or pesticide residues in their analyses of 16 and 41 brands, respectively.)

I try to persuade my colleagues that the idea of taking supplements is a wonderful trend that allows people to express ownership of their own health. What people need is guidance, not salesmanship for a more expensive version, nor dismissal of nutritional preparations that actually possess considerable benefits.

More Vitamin D and HDL

I’m seeing more and more of it and I am convinced that there is a relationship: significant boosts in HDL cholesterol from vitamin D supplementation.

To my knowledge this remains an undescribed and uncharacterized phenomenon. There have been several observers over the last two decades who have noticed that total cholesterol shows a seasonal fluctuation: cholesterol goes up in fall and winter, down in spring and summer; year in, year out. This phenomenon was unexplained but makes perfect sense if you factor in vitamin D fluctuations from sun exposure.

I have come across no other substantiating evidence about fluctuations of HDL. But I am convinced that I am seeing it. Replace vitamin D to a blood level of 50 ng/ml, and HDL goes up if it is low to begin with. If HDL is high to begin with, say, 63 mg/dl, it doesn’t seem to change.

But, say, starting HDL is 36 mg/dl. You take niacin, 1000 mg; reduce high-glycemic index foods like breakfast cereals, breads, cookies, bagels, and other processed carbohydrate foods; exercise four days a week; add a glass of red wine a day; even add 2 oz of dark chocolate. You shed 15 lbs towards your ideal weight. After 6 months, HDL: 46 mg/dl. Better but hardly great.

Add vitamin D at a dose of, say, 4000-6000 units per day (oil-based gelcap, of course!), and re-check HDL two or three months later: 65 mg/dl.

I’ve seen it happen over and over. It doens't occur in everybody but occurs with such frequency that it’s hard to ignore or attribute to something else. What I’m not clear about is whether this effect only occurs in the presence of the other strategies we use to raise HDL, a “facilitating” effect, or whether this is an independent benefit of HDL that would occur regardless of whatever else you do. Time will help clarify.

We are tracking our experience to see if it holds up, how, and to what degree on a more formal basis. Until then, a rising HDL is yet another reason—-among many!-—to be absolutely certain your 25-OH-vitamin D3 level is at 50 ng/ml or greater.

How high is an ideal vitamin D blood level? If 50 ng is good, is 60 or 70 ng even better? Probably not, but there are no data. We have to wait and see. Unlike a drug that enjoys plentiful “dose-response” data, there are no such observations for vitamin D into this higher, though still “physiologic,” range.

Thin ice

How long can an industry built on ignorance and deception continue its practices in the new Information Age?

I don’t think it can for long. I talk to hospital administrators who believe that their source of competition is the hospital across town, battling for the same patients. I speak to my colleagues, the cardiologists, who believe that the current model is sustainable—take every willing body to the catheterization laboratory or operating room for heart procedures, the revenue-generating engine of income and expanding heart programs.

I speak to primary care physicians, who are dumbfounded and perplexed and have no idea which way things are going. They are trapped in a peculiar position: most have signed contracts and are employees of the hospital. They are legally bound to support the cardiologists who take anybody possible to the catheterization laboratory or direct patients to other profit-making procedures.

Much of this system depends on the willingness of the participant, meaning you and the health care seeking public. What happens when the truth comes out and disseminates widely through the thinking populace? What happens to hospitals and physicians and the vast structures they’ve built when the bottom drops out for 50% of their “market?

The proverbial cow manure will hit the fan. Upheavals in the medical industry will rival the changes that the automobile or telephone brought early in the last century. Cardiologists, immense hospital heart programs, and the vast economic infrastructure they spawned will go the way of stage coach manufacturers and the telegraph.

What form will the broad exposure of detailed information in health take? I’m not sure, but it will certainly come. The collaborative efforts that created the Linux operating system and have challenged the monopoly of Microsoft Windows, or the emergence of the extraordinary Wikipedia as a repository of human knowledge that dwarfs the venerated Encylopedia Brittanica, will eventually overtake the American medical system, the heart disease industry in particular.

If you base your future on the welfare of your local hospital or the manufacturers of stents, operating room equipment for heart bypass, or similar industries, watch out. The ice is thin. And as the spring warms the air around you, it gets thinner.

The Track Your Plaque program is our first step in broadcasting the message of self-empowerment in heart health care and an attempt to wrestle control away from the profit-seeking forces that dominate. As we grow, we not only hope to broadcast the message more widely, but expand the message to other areas of health. I predict that the collaborative, let’s-all-pitch-in-and-help spirit of the Information Age, “version 2.0,” will spark the change.

Vitamin D and cancer

Although this is a Blog about heart scans and heart disease, I came across a helpful video from Dr. Joseph Mercola about vitamin D and cancer that's worth viewing. Though I do not agree with many of Dr. Mercola's on-the-edge views, he does come up with some good thoughts and, in this instance, a useful educational tool about vitamin D.

You can view his video (which he claims crashed his server, due to the excessive demand for downloads) by cutting and pasting the address into your URL bar (above):

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/How-to-Reduce-Your-Risk-of-Cancer-By-50--8790.aspx

Also, for my many patients who I've directed to look in my Blog for Dr. Reinhold Vieth's webcast presentation on vitamin D, here's the address:

http://tinyurl.com/f93vl

Perhaps I carry on too much about vitamin D. But I've come to respect this "nutrient" as among the most powerful strategies I've seen for dramatically improving control over coronary plaque growth as well as other aspects of health, as Drs. Mercola and Vieth eloquently detail.

Lipoprotein(a), menopause, and andropause

Lipoprotein(a) is a curious lipoprotein. Not only is it a genetic pattern with numerous variations, it is also one that shows a predictable age-dependent rise.

Women in particular are prone to this effect, men to a lesser degree. As we age, many hormones recede, particularly growth hormone, testosterone, the estrogens (estradiol, estriol, estrone), progesterone, and DHEA, among others. This is not a disease but the process of senescence, or aging.

When we're young, estrogens, testosterone, and DHEA all exert suppressive effects to keep lipoprotein(a), Lp(a), at bay. But as a woman proceeds through her pre-menopausal and menopausal years, and as a male passes through his fourth decade, there is an accelerated decline of these hormones. As a result, Lp(a) crawls out of its cave and starts to sniff around.

Typically, a woman might have a Lp(a) of 75 nmol/l (approximately 30 mg/dl) at age 38. Ten years later, at age 48, her Lp(a) might be 125 nmol/l (app. 50 mg/dl), all due to the decline of estrogens and DHEA. A parallel situation develops in males due to the drop in testosterone. For this reason, it may be necessary to re-check Lp(a) once after the fourth decade of life if you've had a level checked in your younger years.

This opens up some interesting therapeutic possibilities. If receding hormones are responsible for unleashing Lp(a), hormones can be replenished to reduce it. In males, this is relatively straightforward: supplement human testosterone and Lp(a) drops about 25%.

In women, however, it's a bit murkier, thanks to the negative experince reported using horse estrogens (AKA Premarin) in the HERS Trial and Women's Health Initiative. You'll recall that women who take horse estrogens and progestins (synthetic progesterone) do not experience less heart attack and develop a slightly increased risk of endometrial and breast cancer. There was, however, a poorly-publicized sub-study that showed that women with Lp(a) experience up to 50% fewer heart attacks on the horse/synthetic combination.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a large trial examining the safety/advisability of human estrogens and progesterone? To my knowledge, no such confident study in a significant number of women exists, since there's so little money to be made with human hormonal preparations.

For these reasons, we use lots of DHEA, generally at doses of 25 to 50 mg per day. It makes most people feel good, boosts energy modestly, increases muscle, and reduces Lp(a) up to 18% in women, a lesser quantity in men.
Vytorin study explodes--But what's the real story?

Vytorin study explodes--But what's the real story?

The makers of Vytorin, Merck/Schering-Plough Pharmaceuticals, issued a press release about the the Enhance Study yesterday. The news has triggered a media frenzy.

The NY Times reporting of the story:

Drug Has No Benefit in Trial, Makers Say

The 700 participants in the trial all had a condition called "heterozygous hypercholesterolemia," a genetic disorder that permits very high LDL cholesterols. The average LDL at the start was 318 mg/dl.

The Times reported that, while Vytorin cut "LDL levels by 58 percent, compared to a 41 percent reduction with simvastatin alone," but "the average thickness of the carotid artery plaque increased by 0.0111 of a millimeter in patients taking Vytorin, compared to an increase of 0.0058 of a millimeter in those taking only simvastatin." There was no difference in heart attacks or other "events" between the two groups.

(Vytorin is the combination of simvastatin and Zetia.)

In other words, the participants taking Vytorin had 53 ten-thousands of a millimeter more plaque growth than the group taking just simvastatin.

I am always uncomfortable when put in the position of defending a drug or drug company. However, it is patently absurd that this study has generated such attention. I suspect the public and media are waiting for another Vioxx-like debacle, with memories of concealed or suppressed data that suggested heightened heart attack risk that was dismisssed by the drug manufacturer. (That's not to say that the company hasn't been trying to delay or modify the outcome of the study, which they apparently have, much to the objections of the FDA.)

However, at this point, there is no reason to believe that this question possesses any parallels to the Vioxx fiasco.

If we accept the data as reported, however, we might say it calls the entire "Lipid Hypothesis" into question: If LDL cholesterol is significantly reduced but is not correlated with reduction in plaque, is LDL the means by which atherosclerotic plaque progresses? This trial does not answer that question, but does serve to raise some doubt.

Another issue: Heterozygous hypercholesterolemia, and thereby LDL cholesterol, may not be the overwhelming driver of plaque growth in this population. It is probably the number of small LDL particles, a factor which is not revealed by LDL cholesterol. For this reason, heterozygous hypercholesterolemia by itself is insufficient to cause heart disease. Some other factor(s) needs to be present. I would propose that it is the size of the LDL particle: When small, heart disease develops; when large, heart disease is less likely to develop. This issue was not addressed by this study. Readers of The Heart Scan Blog know that conventional LDL cholesterol, the number used in this study, is a virtually worthless number for truly gauging plaque behavior because of its flagrant inaccuracy.

So, there are substantial uncertainties, contrary to the absolute certainty expressed by people like Dr. Steve Nissen (who, by the way, has no expertise in lipoprotein disorders). It is premature to reach any firm conclusions from this study. The only conclusions that I personally come to are 1) Is this yet another reason to question the entire Lipid Hypothesis as it stands? and 2) What would the results have been had LDL particle number and LDL particle size been examined, not just LDL?

I would not automatically conclude that Zetia causes carotid plaque. This is absurd. And I am definitely not one to come to the rescue of a drug or drug manufacturer. I am simply after understanding and truth.

As an interesting aside, Dr. Howard Hodis of the University of Southern California and an expert in carotid scanning for heart disease prevention research, made a comment relevant to us in the Track Your Plaque program:

"Clearly, progression of atherosclerosis is the only way you get events,” Dr. Hodis said. “If you don’t treat progression, then you get events."

Comments (28) -

  • Anonymous

    1/16/2008 1:01:00 AM |

    What am I missing here? Has it not been proven that Statin + Niacin combo is like 90% affective in stopping plaque progression in its tracks? Why does that not say that LDL reduction AND particle size reduction,(Niacin for LP(a),works best? Its not just LDL, I developed heart disease with a 90-100 LDL before my Dr discovered  high LP (a). Treated with 10mg statin,1500 Niacin, diet,I am at a30/30 count. OVER&OUT

  • Peter

    1/16/2008 11:20:00 AM |

    Let's just summarise. First there was Keys with his total cholesterol. This turned out to be garbage. Then there was LDL vs HDL. But LDL is calculated and, as we know from this site, tells us nothing about anything. Then we have LDL particle size. Small dense is bad, big fluffy is good, noting that big fluffy contains lots of cholesterol per particle and can increase your calculated, or even absolute, LDL. Two factors, most studies use calculated LDL. The bin is there, file promptly.

    The second is that something controls your LDL particle size. How, on a practical basis, does Dr Davis control LDL size and density? No wheat and no sugar. Does wheat and sugar elimination alter anything in the body? Wheat contains both an insulin mimetic and two insulin potentiators, plus starches and sugars both increase blood insulin levels per se. Perhaps there is a message here. It's been known for decades that insulin drives the proliferation of the arterial media we call arteriosclerosis.

    If insulin also controls LDL particle size (I have no information on this, but I'm willing to bet it does) then Yudkin and Stout are correct, Keys is wrong and the cholesterol hypothesis, what remains of it, describes the effects of insulin on blood lipids. While insulin and glucose do the damage to the arteries.

    Just a cholesterol skeptic view.

    Peter

    Statins are anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anti-proliferative and probably anti other things too. Unfortunately they drop cholesterol levels (in humans anyway). Zetia, like torcetrapib and clofibrate, does the cholesterol dropping thing without the anti everything else that statins bring along. No wonder they killed so many people in the clinical trials. Clofibrate. Torcetrapib.

    If a drug company develops a drug which converts small dense LDL to light fluffy LDL without affecting insulin sensitivity or glucose, I predict it will go the way of clofibrate and torcetrapib. There's the bin.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/16/2008 1:06:00 PM |

    I especially find it interesting that, among the so-called pleiotropic, or non-lipid, effects of statin drugs is a modest rise in 25-OH-vitamin D3 levels.

  • Anonymous

    1/16/2008 3:25:00 PM |

    I think this just once again shows that statins DO reduce heart disease but NOT because of the reduction in LDL. I'm always amazed at the Dr. who say you don't need to be on a statin your LDL is fine. Statins have been proven to reduce death rates in cardiovascular disease by 30 to 40% and yes with niacin by 90%!!!!!!!! Anybody worried about heart disease should be taking them. And save me the "side effects" alarm of statins that is so over blown. The fact is we invented a drug to reduce LDL, it does that but thats not why it reduces heart attacks and we're still not sure why they do. We accidently created a great class of drugs.

  • kdhartt

    1/16/2008 3:31:00 PM |

    I remember in Taubes reading that small LDL are the result of particles being formed in a high-triglyceride environment--if so there is a more direct link to diet than through insulin.

    About the merits of statins, can't we at least say that through reducing the number of all LDL particles and hence the number of small particles arteries are protected?

    Keith

  • Jenny

    1/16/2008 4:29:00 PM |

    The drug company slanted this study so that they'd get a wonderful result, that they didn't and the lengths that they went to hide or misrepresent the data that came out of the study has to make you suspicious of what ELSE they have learned.

    Did you catch that they also suppressed other study results showing liver damage from Zetia?

    Also, did you catch the BMJ story today about the calcium supplementation trial that lowered LDL raised HDL and increased cardiac and stroke events in older women?

    While that too isn't a death blow to the LDL hypothesis, it certainly doesn't bolster it.

  • Bad_CRC

    1/16/2008 6:03:00 PM |

    Peter,

    Good post; you have an impressive grasp of the literature on this!  I have a question for you, though:  Besides the epidemiology (which I know you don't buy), aren't there still tons of animal studies linking atherosclerosis to dietary saturated fat?  In fact, to promote atherogenesis in lab animals so they can study it, don't they feed them a diet rich in palmitic, stearic, myristic and lauric acids from animal and tropical plant fats, which works predictably?

  • Dr. Davis

    1/16/2008 6:24:00 PM |

    Drug companies are actually scrutinized fairly closely, though plenty of shenanigans still go on.

    What scares me even more is what may have been going on BEFORE the intensified scrutiny began a few years ago.

    Nowadays, the return on investment for treatment of chronic diseases like cholesterol, osteoporosis, and hypertension are so substantial that it is causing them to see a blur between right and wrong.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/16/2008 6:41:00 PM |

    Yes. I believe that the evidence for that effect of statin drugs is quite confident.

    When I question the Lipid Hypothesis, what I really mean is that I question the wisdom of the simple "high cholesterol means more atherosclerosis" philosophy, a belief that is clearly oversimplified, though it contains a germ of truth.

  • Peter

    1/16/2008 8:12:00 PM |

    For anonymous,

    Of course statins reduce cardiac mortality and obviously it's nothing to do with LDL cholesterol lowering. But before you pop one on the off chance (they are available OTC in the UK) go very carefully through this paper.

    You need the full text, the abstract tells you nothing, so here's a summary:

    There were 2913 patients in the placebo group. A total of 306 died during their 3 years of not taking a statin. That is 10.5% died. In the treatment group there were 2891 patients and 298 died, that's 10.3%. Bear in mind that these were high risk cardiovascular patients, the sort for whom statin therapy is supposed to be effective in saving lives.

    There was undoubtedly a significant improvement in cardiac mortality WITHOUT improvement in overall mortality. To sum up the PROSPER trial, you can have the cause of death changed from heart attack to cancer, but not the date on the death certificate. You choose. Perhaps you're too young to be in the PROSPER trial, but live long enough and you won't be!

    PS if you EVER see a statin trial without the overall mortality figures, just assume there was no benefit or worse. If there is even a miniscule benefit it will be broadcast far and wide.

    Keith,

    Thanks for the pointer. Obviously high triglycerides are a classic marker of hyperinsulinaemia and insulin resistance. I'll follow that one when I get that far in to Taubes' book. Seems it's looking good for Yudkin.

    bad_crc,

    Yes, there are thousands of papers like that. They usually use D12451 or something like it. High fat alright, 45% calories from lard. As the rest is? A bit of corn starch, a mass of maltodextrin and an even bigger mass of sucrose!!!!! But of course it's the lard that kills....

    Whereas using a real high fat diet you get this paper. I would suggest the 60% of calories from fat us a little low for a rodent. Choosing for themselves they can go to around 80%, get plump but don't develop insulin resistance.

    Peter

  • Jenny

    1/16/2008 10:11:00 PM |

    My understanding is that studies show that statins are effective in reducing heart attacks ONLY in people who have already HAD heart attacks. Not in the general population.

    This would confirm the growing suspicion that statins work by limiting the inflammation associated with heart disease. Not through their effect on lipids.

    To get back to Zetia/Vytorin, what Dr. Nissen pointed to, which IS in my mind worth noting, was that while the variation in individual endpoints did not rise to statistical significance every single endpoint measured went in the wrong direction. That argues against random effects in my mind.

    Beyond that, we know that in most people heart disease develops over a longer period than that spanned by this study, which only lasted 2 years. If all these parameters measured were trending negatively at 2 years, what happens at 5? Or 10? This is one of those drugs that once they put on on it, you take them forever. So the 5 or 10 year result could be devastating if this turns out to be a significant finding.

    My suggestion would be continue testing this drug in small studies involving people who are very well informed of the risks, but end the writing of the current 1 million prescriptions a month. That's a LOT of guinea pigs, and if there turned out to be an accelerating pace of problems with it, a lot of people could die unnecessarily.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/16/2008 10:20:00 PM |

    Statins reduce the number of LDL particles, which is very poorly represented by the conventional (Friedwald)calculated LDL cholesterol.

    More importantly, when someone with heterozygous hypercholesterolemia (as in this Vytorin study) has a high number of SMALL LDL particles, then statin drugs, in my view, do provide benefit. But a superior effect would be to specifically reduce the number of small LDL particles, best accomplished with such strategies as elimination of wheat, weight loss via low carbohydrate diet, fish oil, vitamin D, and niacin.

    This raises the question of how well the two groups in this study were matched for the number of small LDL particles. To my knowledge, this was not measured.

    Let me also remind everybody that the measure obtained and used for comparison was carotid IMT, not carotid plaque.

  • wccaguy

    1/16/2008 10:39:00 PM |

    I'm certain I'm not alone in feeling bewildered that such a dominant theory of the disease could turn out to have been so wrong for so long at such great cost in lives and treasure.

    Just as a question of historical interest, how far back in the history of science do we have to look to find this kind of reversal of understanding of what the facts are with such broad and great consequence?

  • Dr. Davis

    1/16/2008 11:45:00 PM |

    Hi, WC--

    I'm not sure, but it's not the first time.  

    Is the earth still flat?

  • wccaguy

    1/17/2008 12:49:00 AM |

    Hi Dr. D.

    I was thinking of Galileo also and his remarkable discovery that the earth orbits the sun.

    But then I thought "surely we don't have to go that far back do we to get to such a broad and consequential paradigm shift?"

    Maybe we do.

  • Richard A.

    1/17/2008 3:52:00 AM |

    Could zetia be interfering with the absorption  of simvastatin?

  • Peter

    1/17/2008 5:52:00 AM |

    Hi wccaguy,

    You may enjoy this discussion article from PLoS. The authors intend it to be provocative, put it does pose the question "on which day did medicine stop making mistakes?"

    Peter

  • Anonymous

    1/17/2008 11:23:00 AM |

    In response to Jenny, not all studies on reducing heart attack death havwe been done on people who already had a heart attack. The reduction of 30 to 40% is whether you've had one or not.

  • kdhartt

    1/17/2008 1:18:00 PM |

    Our saturated fat question keeps coming up, but the current common wisdom is that saturated fats are "neutral" in the sense that they raise both LDL and HDL. But do we know what they do to the number of small particles? Of course, if LDL is raised by making particles fluffy then saturated fats are clearly protective.

    Keith

  • Dr. Davis

    1/17/2008 1:34:00 PM |

    Hi, Richard-
    No, there was indeed a substantial further drop in LDL with Vytorin over simvastatin.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/17/2008 1:41:00 PM |

    There is a very modest shift from small to large LDL.

  • Jenny

    1/17/2008 1:47:00 PM |

    Zetia dropped my very high, inherited LDL to normal, BUT I afer a couple months on Zetia my post-menopausal body stopped making estrogen--my gynecologist remarked on it.  

    I also started having a problem with persistent visual afterimages which the ophthalmologist said might also be from having too little cholesterol.

    Both problems went away when I stopped the Zetia. I have very high LDL but I also have the "longevity" cholesterol gene which makes for big fluffy LDL as well as very low Apo(b). My doctors--including the cardiologist I saw--are ignorant about the implications of both findings and just obsess about the high LDL.

    Since naturally produced estrogen seems to be protective for heart disease, I wonder if some people with inherited high LDL are like me have the large fluffy LDL molecules which give a deceptively high LDL value on tests. For them lowering it with Zetia drops LDL TOO low, so that the body doesn't have the cholesterol it needs for important functions, like making the naturally produced female hormones that may be protective against heart disease.

  • Dr. Davis

    1/17/2008 1:52:00 PM |

    Hi, Jenny-
    Keep in mind that conventional LDL is a flagrantly inaccurate number. In my experience, LDL of 150 when accurately measured (we use the NMR LDL particle number as the "gold standard"), the true number is between 80 and 270 mg/dl.

    In my view, conventional LDL is a silly number. It is also the basis of a $23 billion (annual revenue) industry.

  • Anonymous

    1/24/2008 4:06:00 AM |

    In Dec 05 I had a heart scan score of 145.  I went from 10 mg of Lipitor to 80mg of Vytorin and 1000 Niacin, 1 fish oil.  At that time my particle number was 1325 and small particle # 977.  A year later it went to 1503/1277.

    In Nov 07 my heart scan went to 291. I then went to 2000 mg of Niacin and 150 COQ10,4 fish oil, 500 mg C, Vitamin D.

    My new liposcience profile taken Dec 27 07 shows small particle down to 249 and particle number down to 279.

    I dont know why my plaque increased so much but the new lipo profile is impressive in reduction.

    Is there anything here that seems weird or is it just the plaque grew fast and is likely now under control with the much improved scores?  All other factors on the profile were great and my Vitamin D is very good and CRP excellent too.  My homosistine was 15.7 is the only thing a bit high.

    Thanks!!

  • Dr. Davis

    1/24/2008 12:53:00 PM |

    Sorry, but I do not assess entire programs on this blog.

    I would invite you to participate in the conversations in the Track Your Plaque Forum for detailed discussions like this. There is also a free report on "10 steps to take if your heart scan score increases" on the www.trackyourplaque.com website.

  • buy jeans

    11/2/2010 7:37:41 PM |

    I would not automatically conclude that Zetia causes carotid plaque. This is absurd. And I am definitely not one to come to the rescue of a drug or drug manufacturer. I am simply after understanding and truth.

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