Identical twins and the explosive influence of weight

A Track Your Plaque member, Eugene, brought this fascinating story to my attention.

Eugene has two nephews, identical twins aged 35 years. Despite their similar personalities and appearances, somehow these two drifted apart in weight with Steve outweighing Alfred by 30 lbs.

Eugene explains:

These guy's are big not, but overly fat. Just big. One is about 30 lbs heaver than the other. They live 2 blocks apart, they ate the same (together) meal the night before the blood work. Their mother is a type 2 diabetic with a heart condition. Steve does not eat as well as his twin, junk food and a lot of processed starches.


Their results:



LDL-Particle number
Alfred 900
Steve 2256

Small LDL-P
Alfred 400
Steve 1639

HDL-C
Alfred 44
Steve 36

Triglycerides
Alfred 85
Steve 355

Metabolic Syn.
Alfred no
Steve yes


Glucose

Fasting
Alfred 93
Steve 112

1hour
Alfred 134
Steve 206

2 hour
Alfred 105
Steve 172


Identical twins begin with the very same genetic background. As these two graphically illustrate, weight can have a profound influence in the genetically susceptible.

LDL particle number alone is 250% greater in the heavier twin. The dreaded small LDL particle is over 400% worse! Look also at the dramatic differences in blood sugar.

If you ever had any doubts about the importance of excess weight and nutrition, just remind yourself of this fascinating illustration.

Thanks, Eugene.

Low-fat diets raise triglycerides

Martin, a hospital employee, knowing that I fuss a great deal with lipids and lipoproteins, showed me his lipid panel because the result triggered a "panic value" for triglycerides at 267 mg/dl. He asked if he should go on a serious low-fat diet.

I asked Martin what he had for breakfast: a whole wheat bagel with no-added-sugar jam. Lunch: a turkey sub on whole grain bread, no mayonnaise. Snacks: baked chips, pretzels ("a low-fat snack!").

In years past, if person developed high triglycerides levels, a very low-fat diet was prescribed. Someone would come to the hospital, for instance, with abdominal pain from pancreatitis (an inflamed pancreas)due to the damaging effects of triglyceride levels >1000 mg/dl. For this reason, many people still believe that all instances of elevated triglycerides should be treated with a reduction in fat intake.

This is absolutely wrong. While a fat restriction may reduce triglycerides in genetically-programmed responses when triglycerides are >1000 mg/dl, lesser levels of high triglycerides of, say 250 or 300 mg/dl, do not respond to dietary fat restrictions as a sole strategy.

Yes, a reduction in unhealthy fats (saturated, trans, polyunsaturated) helps. But a reduction in fats of all sorts is not necessary and can, in fact, worsen the problem. We learned this lesson years ago with the Ornish diet and similar ultra low-fat approaches. When you reduce fat intake significantly to <10% of calories, triglycerides go way up. In those days, it wasn't uncommon to see triglycerides skyrocket past 200 or 300 mg/dl on these diets.

Why are triglycerides important? Triglycerides are an ingredient in creating the lipoproteins VLDL, IDL, small LDL. Elevated triglycerides trigger a drop in HDL, a shift towards small, ineffective HDL, and contribute to heightened inflammation. Higher triglycerides also tend to go hand in hand with lipoproteins that persist for extended periods (12-24 hours or longer) in the blood after a meal.

Triglycerides respond very nicely to a dramatic reduction in processed carbohydrates, especially wheat and corn. Of course, wheat is the bulk of the problem, since it has grown to occupy an enormous role in many people's diet, not uncommonly eaten 3,4, or 5 times per day in various forms, as it has in Martin's diet. Eliminating all sources of high-fructose corn syrup is also helpful, since high-fructose corn syrup shoots triglycerides way up. (Recall that high-fructose corn syrup is everywhere: ketchup, beer, low-fat or non-fat salad dressings, breads, fruit drinks, sports drinks, breakfast cereals, etc.)

Curiously, it is a fat that also powerfully reduces triglycerides in the form of fish oil. In the Track Your Plaque program, fish oil, taken at truly effective doses of 4000 mg per day or more (to provide at least 1200 mg EPA+DHA), is our number one choice after reduction of processed carbohydrates for reduction of high triglycerides.

The dreaded niacin "flush"

As most anybody who takes niacin knows, it can cause a hot flushed feeling over the chest and face that is generally harmless, though quite annoying.

Many doctors are frightened by this response and will warn patients off from niacin. Some people who take niacin are so annoyed that they find it intolerable.

However, a very simple maneuver can relieve the hot flush in over 90% of instances: Drink water. Let me explain.

I usually instruct patients to take niacin at dinnertime. That way, food slows absorption modestly. I also ask them to drink water with dinner. If the flush occurs after dinner (usually 30-60 minutes later), then drinking two 8-12 oz glasses of water immediately breaks the flush within 3 minutes in the great majority of people. It's quite dramatic.

Doing this around dinner (lunch works just as well) allows sufficient time to clear the excess water from your body before bedtime and spare you the aggravation of disrupted sleep to urinate. Drinking plenty of water works most of the time. Only an occasional person will need to take a 325 mg uncoated aspirin to more fully break the flush. I generally suggest that patients keep the uncoated aspirin in reserve if the water doesn't provide relief within a few minutes.

Thankfully, the intensity of the niacin flush lessens, often disappears, with chronic use.

Why do some people develop the flush and other don't? It is believed that some people metabolize niacin more rapidly to a compound called nicotinuric acid, a niacin metabolite that causes dilation (relaxation) of skin capillaries--thus the flush. The rapidity of converting niacin to nicotinuric acid is determined genetically.

An occasional person really struggles with niacin to the point of intolerance. However, on the positive side, these people may also be "hyper-responders" to niacin, i.e., they show exagerated benefits in raising HDL, reducing small LDL, etc., from small doses such as 250 mg per day.

If you experience the hot flush of niacin, think water to put out the fire.

A cure for pessimism?

Followers of the Track Your Plaque program know that we place great value on having an optimistic outlook. Not only are you more likely to be happy and successful in life, you are also far more likely to drop your CT heart scan score. Virtually everyone who has succeeded in dropping their heart scan score dramatically has been an optimist, including our most recent record holder who dropped his score an astounding 51%.

But what if you are a pessimist, someone who gripes and complains about everything, sees the bad in other people, blames others for anything and everything that goes wrong--yet you still desire to drop your heart scan score? Are you a lost cause? Should you just give up?

I don't think so. I will admit that, of all the hurdles we encounter in trying to purposefully stop or reduce heart scan scores, overcoming a pessimistic attitude is probably the toughest. Tougher than being overweight, maybe tougher than even Lp(a).

Perhaps there's a solution in two years of psychotherapy sessions with a counselor, or exploring unresolved childhood conflicts with a psychologist, or an antidepressant drug. Pessimism is, after all, a deeply-ingrained pattern of behavior, something that can't be changed just by suggesting it or simple self-realization.

The closest thing I know of to a quick and relatively easy solution for converting a pessimist to an optimist is very simple:

Do good things for other people.

Something peculiar happens to the pessimist when he/she starts to help others. They are less threatened by other people (since much griping is really fear in disguise), begin to see others as vulnerable creatures who could use their help rather than sources of annoyance, and a kinship with others is acquired.

Doing good things can mean giving blood, donating money to the Sierra Club or other charity, volunteering with the Boy Scouts, tipping the hard working waitress trying to pay for college more generously, paying compliments to people around you, helping a neighbor carry the groceries when you see him struggling, showing a child how to make a paper airplane . . .

Good deeds can take a million different forms. But it must involve you personally. It can't mean delegating a helpful activity to your spouse. You must also do it frequently, not just once a year. It doesn't have to cost money, it doesn't have to involve a lot of time (though your personal bodily involvement does yield the greatest return in optimism). These are things anyone can do and help make the world around you a little better.

If taking these small steps towards an optimistic attitude are too much for you, then I would worry that you are destined to fail in dropping your heart scan score.

(Lack of ) Quality of nutritional supplements

In my last post, I blogged about how we must not confuse marketing with truth. They are often two different things.

A patient I saw today was absolutely convinced that his fish oil was the best available in the world: purer, uncontaminated by mercury or pesticides--"not like that other crap on the shelves." I asked him how he knew this. "They say so," he proudly declared.

Do you recognize this? He fell for the marketing. While there may be some truth in the manufacturer's claims, you can't believe it from the mouth of the manufacturer. True judgements about quality and purity have to come from an independent source like Consumer Reports, Consumer Lab, or the FDA.

But the FDA doesn't regulate the quality and purity of nutritional supplements. On the positive side, this has allowed supplement manufacturers to keep costs down, not having to navigate arcane and complex regulatory restrictions.

On the negative side, a fair number of supplement manufacturers get away with 1) producing supplements that fail to contain the stated amounts of ingredients, occasionally containing none of the essential ingredient(s), 2) contain contaminants like lead, and 3) make extravagant and often unfounded claims like "superior", "more effective", and "purer". (DHEA, for instance, is a particular landmine of poor quality. I recently suggested that a patient take DHEA; despite consistently taking 50 mg of a specific brand for several months, the blood level of DHEA-S didn't budge one bit--there was likely little or none in the capsule.)

The Fanatic Cook at http://fanaticcook.blogspot.com has posted some very insightful discussions on this issue and the proposed FDA regulations of supplements. They're worth perusing.

I really wish regulation weren't necessary and that the industry could have policed itself. But it clearly has failed and perhaps federal oversight is not such a bad thing, as long as the FDA regulations restrict themselves to oversight over quality and purity and not to efficacy. It's the efficacy regulation that could hogtie innovation in supplement development.

Marketing and truth are not the same

I often remind people: Don't confuse marketing with the truth.

Today, I spent a total of probably an hour and a half dissuading patients that some crazed piece of marketing trying to sell them something was not the same as truth.

I spent approximately 40 minutes alone with a woman who was absolutely convinced that:

--Nattokinase would cure her of all heart disease. It does not. Despite the promising health benefits of natto and vitamin K2 supplementation, nattokinase is a scam with no basis in science nor logic.

--Niacin destroys your liver and homeopathic remedies are superior. Quite simply, homeopathy = quackery. No rational thinking scientist endorses the utter nonsense practiced in this strange and outrageous set of practices that requires you to suspend all reason.

--Sufficient vitamin D is obtainable through a "potent" multivitamin. I know of no multivitamin preparation that even begins to provide the dose of vitamin D that is actually required by adults, nor is it absorbed since these D preparations are powder based.

--Fish oil will poison you with mercury. Accordingly, one brand of fish oil claims to be the only safe form. Those of you following these posts, or the reports of the USDA and FDA, as well as the reports of Consumer Reports and Consumer Lab (www.consumerlab.com) know that, unlike fish itself, there is no mercury in fish oil capsules.

--All coronary atherosclerotic heart disease is caused by heavy metal poisoning. Thus chelation with EDTA represents a cure for heart disease.


People are inundated with marketing that promise extravagant cures, remove need for any medication, make you smarter, sexier, thinner, and on and on.

If you see a TV ad for Ford that says they make the best cars in the U.S., do you immediately run out and put a For Sale sign on your GM car and buy a Ford? No, of course not. You recognize the ad for what it is: marketing. It may be true, but a TV commercial is not enough to convince you.

Then why would an ad promising extraordinary cures for cancer or heart disease convince you that this is true? It should not. Marketing ads should only serve to alert you to the possibility of value or benefit, but should never-- never--stand alone as proof. Take marketing for what it is: marketing of a product or service, not a scientific report, not a factual report, not news.

Marketing is advertising. Period.

More on erectile dysfunction

Several facts on erectile dysfunction and coronary plaque:


If you have erectile dysfunction, there's at least a 50% chance you also have coronary plaque.

If you have coronary plaque by a CT heart scan, there's a 50% chance you have erectile dysfunction.

If you have symptomatic coronary disease (chest pains, breathlessness, prior heart attack), there's a 90% chance you also have erectile dysfunction.


Coronary disease is characterized by a dysfunctional state of the "endothelium", or inner lining of the coronary arteries. Erectile dysfunction is characterized by dysfunction of the endothelium of the penile circulation. Same phenomenon, different territories. (There are other differences, of course, but the two conditions share this fundamental phenomenon.)


If you have any doubts about the physiologic effects of the supplement, l-arginine, just give it a try if you have erectile dysfunction. The erection enhancing effects alone should convince you that a genuine artery-dilating effect is exerted by this very powerful nutritional supplement.

If l-arginine fails by itself to restore full erectile capacity, there are additional strategies, both nutritional and medical, that you can consider.

Our newest Track Your Plaque Special Report on erectile dysfunction is coming out any day now.

High LDL cholesterol--only

As a sequel to my last post, just how often can we blame an isolated high LDL cholesterol as the cause of coronary plaque and a heart scan score?

In other words, how often does someone prove to have only LDL cholesterol as the cause of a heart scan score . . . and nothing else? No low HDL, small LDL, lipoprotein(a), a post-prandial (after-eating) intermediate-density lipoprotein, inflammatory responses, phospholipase A2, high triglycerides, vitamin D deficiency, etc.

Rarely. In fact, I can truly count the number of people who have only LDL cholesterol as their sole cause of coronary atherosclerotic plaque on one hand. It is really an infrequent situation.

Far more commonly, people have 5, 6, 7 or more reasons for coronary plaque.

Thus, the idea that a statin drug to reduce LDL will cure heart disease is completely folly. It does happen--but rarely. I think I've seen it happen twice. Much more commonly, a program that addresses all the causes of coronary plaque yields far superior benefits.

In my view, an effort to identify all the causes is relatively easy, makes far better sense, and provides you much greater assurance that you will succeed in conquering heart disease and removing its evil influence from your life.

Heart disease = statin deficiency

Judging from the conversations I hear from colleagues, what I hear from the media, and drug company advertising, you'd think that heart disease has one cause--a deficiency of statin drugs.

As their thinking goes, if you have coronary disease, you need a statin drug (Lipitor, Zocor, Crestor, pravachol, etc.). If you have progressive coronary disease, you need more statin drug. If you have a heart attack while on a statin drug, you need even more statin drug.

Some "experts" have even proposed that we do away with LDL cholesterol and we just give everybody a statin drug at high doses.

Does this make any sense to you?

Doesn't it make better sense that if someone has progressive heart disease or heart attack while on a statin drug, then target the other causes largely unaffected by a statin drug? Perhaps if LDL cholesterol remains high on the statin drug, then a higher dose is justified. But more often than not, it's not a high LDL on statin drugs that responsible, it's other causes. And there's many of them: low HDL, VLDL, IDL, Lp(a), deficiency of omega-3 fatty acids, inflammatory processes, vitamin D deficiency, among others. (An important exception to this is when the conventional calculated LDL substantially underestimates true LDL as measured by LDL particle number by NMR, apoprotein B, or 'direct' LDL.)

Imagine someone has pneumonia. After 2 weeks of antibiotics, they are only partly better. The solution: a higher dose of the same antibiotic--but never question if it was the right antibiotic in the first place. That's what is going on in heart disease.

The doctors have been brainwashed into believing this $22 billion dollar per year bit of propaganda. The drug companies actively try to recruit the public into believing the same. Don't fall for it.

The statin drugs do indeed have a role. But they are not the complete answer. More of the same when disease progresses makes no sense at all.

Fish oil and mercury

I often get questions about the mercury content in fish oil. I've even had patients come to the office saying their primary care doctor told them to stop fish oil to avoid mercury poisoning.

Manufacturers of fish oil also make claims that this product or that ("super-concentrated", "pharmaceutical grade", "purified", etc.) is purer or less contaminated than competitors' products. The manufacturers of the "drug" Omacor, or prescription fish oil, have added to the confusion by suggesting that their product is the most pure of all, since it is the most concentrated of any fish oil preparation (900 mg EPA+DHA per capsule). They claim that "OMACOR is naturally derived through a unique, patented process that creates a highly concentrated, highly purified prescription medicine. By prescribing OMACOR® (omega-3-acid ethyl esters), a prescription omega-3, your doctor is giving you a concentrated and reliable omega-3. Each OMACOR capsule contains 90% omega-3 acids (84% EPA/DHA*). Nonprescription omega-3 dietary supplements typically contain only 13%-63% EPA/DHA."

How much truth is there in these concerns?

Let's go to the data published by the USDA, FDA, and several independent studies. Let's add to that the independent (and therefore presumably unbiased) analyses provided by Consumer Reports and Consumer Labs (www.consumerlab.com). How much mercury has been found in fish oil supplements?

None.

This is different from the mercury content of whole fish that you eat. Predatory fish that are at the top of the food chain and consume other fish and thereby concentrate organic methyl mercury, the toxic form of mercury. Thus, shark, swordfish, and King mackerel are higher in mercury than sardines, herring, and salmon.

The mercury content of fish oil capsules have little to do with the method of processing and much more with the animal source of oil. Fish oil is generally obtained from sardines, salmon, and cod, all low in mercury. Fish oil capsules are not prepared from swordfish or shark.

Thus, concerns about mercury from fish oil--regardless of brand--are generally unfounded, according to the best information we have. Eating whole fish--now that's another story for another time. But you and I can take our fish oil to reduce triglycerides, VLDL, IDL, small LDL, and heart attack risk without worrying about mercury.
LDL cholesterol, statins, and plaque regression

LDL cholesterol, statins, and plaque regression

The ASTEROID Trial reported in 2006 examined the effects of LDL cholesterol reduction using the statin drug, rosuvastatin (Crestor), with coronary atherosclerosis quantified and tracked with intracoronary ultrasound. The Track Your Plaque report, New study confirms: LDL of 60 mg reverses plaque, on the ASTEROID Trial provides commentary on the results.


Though I remain skeptical that a statin-only treatment strategy can reverse coronary plaque in the majority of people, I do believe that the AstraZeneca-sponsored ASTEROID Trial does add to the wisdom on heart disease management. More importantly, it has served to raise awareness among both the public and my physician colleagues that atherosclerosis is indeed a potentially reversible condition.


Specifically, the ASTEROID results confirm that, either directly or indirectly, LDL cholesterol reduction achieved with statin agents does correspond to increasing degrees of plaque reversal. The mean (calculated) LDL cholesterol achieved in ASTEROID was 60 mg/dl, the same as the Track Your Plaque suggested LDL target.

Though the ASTEROID Trial is not news, I stumbled on a chart posted on the ASTEROID Trial website that clearly highlights how a number of other studies beyond ASTEROID have fallen into this pattern:





The graph reveals a linear relationship: The greater the reduction in LDL cholesterol with statin drugs, the greater the plaque regression ("change in percent atheroma volume"). (Several other studies not included in the graph also cluster into the same linear relationship.)

I am no supporter of drug companies, nor a defender of their policies and practices. But I do believe that their data can serve to teach us a few lessons. For instance, here is an (cherry-picked, to be sure) example of intracoronary ultrasound cross-sectional images before and after two years of rosuvastatin, 40 mg daily:





The color-coded/outlined atherosclerotic coronary plaque is shown shrinking, while the "lumen," or the path for blood to flow, enlarges. The reduction in coronary plaque is irrefutable. (The small circle within the lumen with the white halo surrounding it is the ultrasound catheter.)

If you and I were to choose a single treatment approach to coronary disease reversal, then 40 mg of rosuvastatin is probably at the top of the list. However, in the Track Your Plaque program, we do not advocate a single treatment strategy. While the Crestor-only approach is relatively straightforward--one pill a day--few people, in my experience, can tolerate this dose for any length of time. Patients invariably have to stop the drug or reduce the dose severely due to muscle aches when I've had patients try it. Contrary to the ASTEROID results, in my experience the majority of people, perhaps all, eventually give up with this improbable "one-size-fits-all" scheme.

The Track Your Plaque approach, while more complicated and involves several nutritional supplements and strategies, in my view addresses more causes of coronary plaque, is better tolerated, and provides health benefits outside of just LDL cholesterol reduction. It also minimizes or eliminates the need for prescription medication.



Studies cited in graph:

1.Nissen S et al. N Engl J Med 2006;354:1253-1263.
2 Tardif J et al. Circulation 2004;110:3372-3377.
3 Nissen S et al. JAMA 2006;295 (13):1556-1565
4 Nissen S et al. JAMA 2004;292: 2217–2225.
5 Nissen S et al. JAMA 2004; 291:1071–1080

Comments (12) -

  • J Michael Nicholls

    4/13/2008 6:49:00 AM |

    Dear Dr. Davis,
    I have read your blog for some time now, and I consider it to be the no 1 in the nutrition-health-cardiology field. A couple of years ago I became interested in the “cholesterol theory” and I have studied the development of the statins in detail. Having a background in the “hard sciences” I am appalled at the lack of sound science in this field in particular, as well as in some other areas of medical research.

    To my knowledge there is zero evidence that the lowering of any of the cholesterol levels has anything to do with preventing heart disease or reversing plack. On the contrary, an anti-inflammatory mechanism is probably the reason for the little protective effect there is, while the lowering of the cholesterol levels probably causes more harm then good (as can be suspected from the extensive list of side effects).

    Reading this post and the statement, “LDL cholesterol reduction achieved with statin agents does correspond to increasing degrees of plaque reversal”, I couldn’t help feeling that some readers would get it all wrong, especially since “cholesterol lowering” is the healing mantra that is being communicated to the market (and even most doctors seem to advocate).

  • Anonymous

    4/13/2008 11:50:00 PM |

    "Having a background in the hard sciences"? In the "hard siences" they call plaque "plak" ? That was a dead give away that you have no idea what your talking about even before you made the ridiculus statement"to my knowledge there is zero eveidence that the lowering of any of the cholesterol has anything to do with preveting heart disease or lowering plak(sic)" You should read some of the studies, they're easily found on the internet or in journals. By the way did you look at the pictures Dr. davis put up in the article? As Dr. davis always says I don't work for the drug companies and statins certainly aren't miracle drugs but they do have a place. Ever hear of the Framingham Study, just a small study thats been going on for over 60 years now and has studied over 10,000 people( now in its third generation) and they have NEVER had a recorded heart attack in ANYBODY with a cholesterol level under 150. So much for "your knowledge"

  • Anonymous

    4/14/2008 4:40:00 AM |

    Dear Dr. Davis,

    In reading this and about vitamin D, if you have a plaque problem, but your HDL is high and your Vitamin D level in normal, would it still be helpful to take the suppliment?

  • J Michael Nicholls

    4/14/2008 1:56:00 PM |

    Dear Anonymous, there is no need to be so sarcastic, and I apologize for spelling plaque plack. Do you mean to say that all of medical science is of high quality, and that it shouldn’t be questioned? Most of the serious critique against the cholesterol hypothesis comes from medical researchers by the way. I am waiting to be enlightened, please show me the evidence that the LOWERING of cholesterol by it self (per se) is the protective mechanism of statins.

    From your writing it appears that you still believe in the old dogma of high cholesterol CAUSING atherosclerosis. Only a few of the fiercest statinators in the research community still maintain that, and probably so for financial reasons (most statin-advertising is doing its best to communicate just that). Most GPs seem to believe that cholesterol causes atherosclerosis too. It is trivial that in any academic context “correspond to”, “linear relationship” or “associated with” do not mean “direct effect of” or “directly caused by”. With this simple understanding we would have better doctors and better scientist in the medical field, and consequently less treatment of SYMPTOMS such as high cholesterol, high blood pressure and high blood sugar. By the way, is there any proof that atherosclerosis is not causing the higher cholesterol levels instead of the other way around?

    The problem with many defenders of the cholesterol dogma is that they don’t read the scientific literature in a scientific way. I personally don’t know of anyone still believing in the cholesterol hypothesis after having studied it in depth from strictly scientific principles. There is simply no evidence to motivate all the “lowering” of “levels”. It is nothing more than a highly profitable market concept ($30 billion in 2007).

  • Anonymous

    4/14/2008 2:25:00 PM |

    Great write up.

    As  a diabetic, with all of my numbers under very good control, I have been on statins for 8 years and my last two heart scans (5 years apart) had a score of 0 plague.  My question is the following:

    Are you saying that statins are good and should be part of a comprehensive approach?

    Many websites that push your blog are against the use of statins in any approach.  How do you respond to that type of thinking?

    Should you continue taking drugs to reduce your plague if your score is zero?


    Thanks for your time

  • Anonymous

    4/14/2008 6:23:00 PM |

    Playing devil's advocate, I'm not sure if science has proved cholesterol to be a cause of heart disease. What if it's a marker and not a cause?

    Those in the Framingham study with low cholesterol values might not get heart attacks due to lifestyle/genetics, and their low cholesterol is a reflection of their overall good health?

    Those who take high dose statins obtain benefit from less inflammation, but not because of cholesterol reduction?

    I'm not saying the above two statements are true, but it could be possible. It could also explain why statins, as a single treatment, usually don't work for most people, and why the Vytorin/Zetia/Torcetrapib trials failed so miserably.

    Or it could be that the reduction in LDL wasn't enough to matter, or that particle sizes for LDL/HDL wasn't taken into account, or some other factor? It appears that  right now, there isn't hard data that proves what causes heart disease exactly, but simply a lot of risk factors and disease markers instead.

  • Anonymous

    4/15/2008 1:52:00 AM |

    I never suggested that Cholesterol by itself caused heart disease. Clearly many things do, inflamation, CRP, Lp(a)... On the other hand to suppose that cholesterol has NOTHING to do with heart disease is foolish. Show me a cardiologist that believes cholesterol has nothing to do with heart disease and I'll show you a quack. It may not even be the main cause of heart disease in most people but the fact of the matter is reducing LDL lowers the the chance for heart attack in a good number of people. Have you ever heard of Dr. Agagston ? He of the South Beach Diet fame, a cardiologist in South Florida, who by the way the way of scoring calcium scans is named after. See what he thinks of statins and reducing cholesterol levels. and as Im sure you know it gets much more complicated than that when you get into particle size. Take a person who's scans keep going up because he has small LDL and nothing in Dr. Davis program has worked for him 9I am such a patient of the good Dr.s) The best you can do for such a person is lower his LDL as far as you can since its all going to be small particle anyway. I would also refer you to Dr. Greg Browns HATS Study for examples of lowering cholesterol and lowering heart disease or Dr. Davis' example that started this discussion. I apologise if I came off a bit sarcastic in my earlier comments I think this is an important issue to get all points of view on.

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2008 3:32:00 AM |

    Great thead.

    So what are you really saying about statins?  Is there value taking statins in combination with other treatments for men and women?

    How do you address the comments that states statins don't work?

    Thanks for your time.  Your comments are really appreciated.

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2008 6:14:00 PM |

    There is NO DOUBT that statins reduce the chances of a person having a heart attack, NONE. There is question as to what about the statins does that, is it lowering LDL, is it stablising plaque, is it reducing inflamation . . .? Or is it all of these ? And there is no doubt statins have side effects, some serious, but the fact that they reduce heart attacks, that argument has been settled.

  • J Michael Nicholls

    4/16/2008 7:26:00 PM |

    I will not go deeper into the science of atherosclerosis except to say that it has been known for several years now that cholesterol per se does not initiate atheroma, or plaque. You find cholesterol in the lesions but you also find calcium. We find cholesterol and calcium because it is available in the bloodstream. Cholesterol does not have a mind of its own, and it doesn’t one day decide to develop plaque by raising “the level”. Neither does calcium.

    We need cholesterol for many important processes in the body, and it is a part of almost all of our cell membranes. Mother’s milk is packed with it because the baby needs it. Eggs are full of the stuff “because it takes a hell of a lot of cholesterol to make a chicken”. The body has the level it needs at all times, and a higher level could indicate that something is wrong, i e, it is a marker, like someone said. Lowering of levels makes no sense at all.

    It is just dumb luck that the cholesterol lowering statins happen to be anti-inflammatory and therefore have some preventive effect, and may reverse plaque in some cases. The higher the dose the more anti-inflammatory effect, and reversal of atheroma. The higher the dose the bigger the lowering of the cholesterol level, because that is exactly how statins are designed to work. However, there is NO evidence in the scientific literature that the lowering of the cholesterol level has a protective effect, and I am very sorry if this upsets anyone’s religious beliefs. Dumb luck, as I said, the rest is coincidence and correspondence. Big Pharma will do its best to uphold the “religion” though, since it is so profitable. Levels will always be too high, and everybody should be statinated. Statins should be distributed in the drinking water, no less.

    So, why bother, the statins seems to work in a few cases? Well, statins are really poisonous substances, and there are many indications that they cause harm to the human body, particularly by the lowering of cholesterol levels. Side effects are plentiful and it is probable that we will witness statin induced cancers in large numbers in the near future.

    The point to be made here is that there are other and better methods to avoid atherosclerosis and to reverse plaque. Dr Davis is one of the leading proponents of such methods. I personally think it is interesting to se the results of the statin study presented here; I just wanted to stress the point of what statins really do. By all means, we should keep an eye our cholesterol levels. But many people having a hearth attack do not have high cholesterol. But did you know that 90% of them have diabetes or in some other way a pathological sugar metabolism? So what level is the more important?

    About the quacks, who don’t buy the cholesterol dogma, there are thousands of them. Some of them can be found at www.thincs.org. If you are interested in how the cholesterol religion was developed and how science was corrupted to that end, I can recommend Gary Taubes latest book Good Calories – Bad Calories.

    By the way, CRP is just another marker for hearth disease, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there will soon be talk about lowering the level Smile

  • Anonymous

    4/18/2008 1:13:00 AM |

    Well by your klogic there is no scientific proof the lowering inflamation is what cause stsatins to lower your risk of a herat attack, the only thing we do know is that ststins DO infact lower your risk, we just all keep guessing as to why. Well heres another piece to the puzzle: double blind study releasesed this week follow groups of people on statins or placebos and by a slight BUT significant margin the statin takers blood oressure was lowered ! So besides all the other things we think statins do we now KNOW they lower blood pressure. 2 ver5y interesting points for all of our paranoid readers 1. Not one of the study members recieving the statins in the 2 year period had to leave bececause of side effects and 2. this study was NOT paid for by the big bad scarry Drug companies, so there goes your default response.

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 4:55:07 PM |

    I am no supporter of drug companies, nor a defender of their policies and practices. But I do believe that their data can serve to teach us a few lessons. For instance, here is an (cherry-picked, to be sure) example of intracoronary ultrasound cross-sectional images before and after two years of rosuvastatin, 40 mg daily:

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