An exercise in optimism

Followers of the Track Your Plaque program already know that maintaining an optimistic viewpoint is important in gaining control over coronary plaque.

In fact, I believe that, in many cases, a sense of optimism may make or break your CT heart scan score-reducing efforts. Pessimists rarely drop their score, while optimists do so all the time.

This week posed a challenge to my optimism. I spent the last week on jury duty hearing the details of a murder case. For four days, I listened to blow-by-blow testimony about the totally pointless, unprovoked death of a young man by a drug-dealing thug. Much of the witness testimony was from people who shared the hopeless, violent world of the defendant.

I was, however, completely impressed by the dedication of the prosecuting attorney, a 50-some year old man who was clearly deeply dedicated to his mission and didn't once provide any indication that he was grandstanding or looking for some personal glory. He was doing his job and trying to obtain justice for the fallen victim. I was equally impressed by the judge, who seemed unfazed by the events but carefully explained why the system worked the way it did. After the trial, he provided some further insights to us jury members and I saw him as a human being who, like the prosecutor, was trying to make a small contribution to making the world better.

Though many of the witnesses who testified against the defendant shared his world, I was impressed with their courage in coming forward. They face the threat of reprisals, I'm sure, for coming forward to the law and testifying against a known career criminal. Several of them said that they were not after any reward, but simply wished to do the right thing and provide testimony that proved damning against the defendant.

I acted as the jury foreman and I was proud of how the jury members listened carefully, asked intelligent and probing questions, and then helped us render a confident and expeditious sentence: guilty.

If anything, despite the tragic circumstances, I was much heartened at how all the participants in this process played their part and justice (at least in the legal sense) was served.

Let optimism prevail, even in dire circumstances.

No need to re-invent the wheel

I seem to be repeating myself lately, but I think this does bear repeating:

There's no need to re-invent the wheel when it comes to gaining control over your heart scan score.

The Track Your Plaque program is the most powerful approach known to help you gain control over your coronary atherosclerotic plaque and CT heart scan score, bar none. While 100% of people do not drop their score, more and more people every week are doing so. (One of the admitted weaknesses of the Track Your Plaque website is our failure to list more success stories; we're working on it.)

The basic program is quite simple:

--The Rule of 60 for lipids (LDL 60 mg/dl; HDL 60 mg/dl or greater; triglycerides 60 mg/dl or less)

--Identify hidden causes of plaque, esp. small LDL, Lp(a), and IDL, followed by specific corrective action

--Fish oil--minimum 1200 mg per day of EPA + DHA

--Normal vitamin D3 blood levels (We aim for 25-OH-vitamin D3 of 50-60 ng/ml)

--Normal blood sugar (<100 mg/dl)

--Normal blood pressure (<130/80)

--An optimistic attitude



Much of the other stuff--vitamin K, matrix metalloproteinase reducing strategies, flavonoid strategies, exercise-induced hypertension, etc.--are, for the majority, fluff. Their real role is in people who may have failed in stopping the rise of their heart scan score just doing the basics of the program.

If you neglect the basics, hoping to find some magic potion, I'm afraid the overwhelming likelihood is that you will fail. I've seen it happen time and again. Someone will come to my office with an extraordinary list of supplements--hawthorne, dozens of anti-oxidants, EDTA, concentrated flavonoid preparations, and on and on. Not only is it shockingly expensive to do this, it's also unnecessary and foolhardy. This kind of unfocused, hocus-pocus in the hopes of getting it right fail time after time.

The Track Your Plaque program, while not foolproof, is the best I know of. Stick to the basics and wander off when the basics fail. But there's extraordinary power in just achieving the basics.

Are we a front for drug companies?

I was shocked recently when someone accused me and the Track Your Plaque website of being nothing more than a front for the drug industry, that we are promoting concepts with the hidden pharmacuetical agenda behind us.

Don't make me laugh. How in the world that kind of impression could be gotten from either the Heart Scan Blog or the Track Your Plaque website is beyond me.

But I occasionally do need to state explicity: We do not promote drugs, neither this Blog nor the Track Your Plaque website has ever sought nor been backed by pharmaceutical money. The only money that supports this website is our own and that from paying Track Your Plaque members.

In fact, I am quite proud of the unbiased content and commentary on both venues. I challenge anyone to point out how and where there is any suggested relationship to a hidden source of commercial backing. I assure you, there is none.

If I say a drug is worth you and your doctor considering, then I say so with a true belief in it, not because somebody or some company paid me to say so. If I say a drug stinks, I believe that too. If we use a specific supplement in the program, it's because we believe it truly adds value to a plaque-reversal program. We receive no money from drug, supplement, or other commercial interests to promote their products. Period.

What is "normal"?

When it comes to laboratory values and medical testing, a common dilemma is knowing what is "normal." Let me explain.

First of all, when you receive a laboratory result for a test, a "reference range" or "normal range" is usually provided. Where did that range come from?

It varies from test to test. For instance, a low potassium is easy, because low potassium levels can lead to life threatening consequences, e.g., dangerous heart rhythms. High potassium likewise, because dangerous phenomena develop when potassium generally exceeds 5.5 mg/dl or so.

But what about something like HDL or LDL. Here's where confusion reigns. Often, "normal" is obtained by taking the average and saying that any value plus or minus two standard deviations (remember that painful class?) represents normal or reference range.

If that were true, what if we applied that principle to body weight. If we weighed several thousand adult women, the average would be in the neighborhood of 172 lbs (no kidding). Does that mean that 172 lbs plus or minus two standard deviations is normal? No, of course not.

There is therefore a distinction between "normal" and "desirable". For HDL cholesterol, your laboratory report might say that an HDL cholesterol of 40-60 mg/dl is normal. But is it desirable? I don't think so. The most frequent HDL level for a male with a heart attack is 42 mg/dl--hardly desirable.

Let's take triglycerides. The average triglyceride level in the U.S. is somewhere around 140 mg/dl. For those of us who do a lot of lipoprotein testing, we can tell you that triglycerides at this level, though generally regarded as being within the normal range, are associated with flagrant and obvious excesses of several abnormal lipoprotein particles that contribute to coronary plaque growth (VLDL and often IDL; small LDL; drop in HDL and shift towards small HDL).

So, always take the so-called "normal" or "reference" values on a lab report as crude guidelines that often have little or nothing to do with health or desirability. Unfortunately, many physicians are not aware of this and will declare any value within the normal or reference range as okay. An HDL of 40 mg is not okay. A triglyceride level of 140 mg is also not okay.

What is okay? What is desirable? That depends on the parameter being examined. From a basic lipid standpoint, of course, we regard desirable as 60-60-60. Desirability from a lipoprotein standpoint we will cover in a more thorough Track Your Plaque Special Report in future.

The wisdom of the masses

My sister sent me these quotes:



"We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out."

Decca Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962


"Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau."

Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University, 1929


"Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value."

Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre, France


"Everything that can be invented has been invented."

Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, US Office of Patents, 1899



No doubt, conventional wisdom can often be laughably (tragically?) wrong. The problem is that, as absurd as all the above sentiments seem to us now and in retrospect, they represented the view of many people years ago. These views were held by many, including many people in positions of power and decision-making responsibility.

A more relevant but nonetheless laughable and widely held belief in 2007: coronary heart disease should be treated with hospital procedures.

Why is a disease that requires 30 years to develop treated only at the final moments with a procedure? Do you only change your car's oil when the engine is on its last legs? Or, do periodic, relatively effortless oil changes during the life of the car make better sense?

I witness just how brainwashed the public has become with this crazed notion when I meet someone socially at, say a fundraiser or cocktail party. When they ask what I do, I tell them I'm a cardiologist. The invariable response: "Oh, what hospital do you work out of?"

I tell them I don't, that I take care of the majority of heart disease right from the office. 99% of the time I get a puzzled look. If we had comic bubbles above our heads revealing our internal thoughts, it would read "Yeah, right. What a kook."

The notion that coronary heart disease is something that is manageable with simple tools for the majority of us in the early stages is entirely foreign to almost everybody. The hospitals and the medical industry have so succeeded in dazzling the public with images of staff in scrubs, rushing from emergency to emergency, lights flashing, scalpels flying. . . how can you possibly accomplish this at home or anywhere outside of the high-tech world of the hospital?

Well, I'm a cardiologist and I do it every day. We all need a figurative dose of electroshock therapy to shake ourselves of this crazy notion.

How important is l-arginine?

Perhaps more than any other supplement, l-arginine causes frustration and confusion. It’s difficult to find, sometimes quite expensive, and some preparations cause loose stools.

Just how necessary is it?

L-arginine, you’ll recall, is a source of nitric oxide, or NO. Though it’s the same stuff as in car exhaust, NO provides a critical signaling role in your body’s cells that regulate a multitude of functions. Among the important roles of NO is to powerfully dilate, or relax, arteries. A constant flow of NO is required for health, particularly since each molecule persists only a few seconds.

L-arginine is the body’s source of nitric oxide. In addition, a peculiar but very effective blocker of l-arginine called asymmetric dimethylarginine, or ASDM, has recently been discovered to prevent the production of NO. Varied conditions like hypertension, diabetes, high cholesterol, excessive saturated fat or processed carbohydrate intake all lead to heightened levels of ASDM, often several-fold greater levels, and thereby effectively blocking NO production.

The “Arginine Paradox” is the name that some researchers in this field have given to the unusual property of l-arginine supplementation to “overpower” the blocking effects of ASDM. This is somewhat unusual in biologic systems in that an agent that blocks a receptor cannot usually be outmuscled by providing excess material for a reaction. Kind of like hoping that your car runs faster simply by topping up the gas tank.

Concrete observable benefits have been made for l-arginine in clinical trials, such as arterial relaxation that results in arterial enlargement (which can actually be seen in the cath lab); anti-inflammatory effects; reduction of blood pressure; enhancement of insulin responses, etc. All of these effects can be connected to beneficial properties that may facilitate atherosclerotic plaque regression and, indeed, there are limited data to document that this is true.

Drug companies may be greedy, but they’re not stupid. They’ve been vigorously pursuing this line of research for some years, a research path that led inadvertently to the erectile dysfunction agent, sildenafil (Viagra), and all its subsequent competitors. (Erectile dysfunction is another expression of endothelial dysfunction, since male erections are driven by the ability to dilate penile arteries.) The wonderful properties of NO enhancement continue to occupy research labs around the world.

Wow. So what’s the reluctance? In the early years of the Track Your Plaque program (meaning just a short 7-8 years ago), I was thoroughly convinced that l-arginine was a crucial, necessary part of a plaque regression program. Without it, you would rarely succeed. With it, the odds were tipped in your favor.

However, something curious has emerged recently. I’ve seen more and more people dropping their heart scan scores. Not just a little bit, but a huge amount. Witness our most recent record holder, Neal, who dropped his score 51% in 15 months. Just five years ago, this magnitude of reversal was unimaginable. Granted, Neal is our record holder, but others are obtaining 10, 18, 24, 30% drops in scores all the time. Many have done it without l-arginine.

Now, how about the people who have failed to stop a rising score? Would they do better with l-arginine as part of the mix? I believe so, but sometimes we never quite know except in retrospect. It has been a great dilemma for us trying to predict from the starting gate who will or who won’t drop their heart scan score.

My view from the trenches is that l-arginine packs its greatest atherosclerosis-fighting punch in the first year or two of use, when “endothelial dysfunction” is likely to be present (abnormal artery constriction). But as all other strategies take hold—fish oil, correction of lipid and lipoprotein abnormalities, weight loss (big effect), vitamin D (another very big effect), etc.—endothelial behavior improves over time. Perhaps l-arginine becomes a less necessary component over time.

There’s no doubt that uncertainty still surrounds the use and science surrounding l-arginine. However, if you’re interested in stacking the odds in your favor, particularly during the first year or two of your plaque-reducing efforts, I think that l-arginine is worth considering. It is cumbersome, it can be expensive, some preparations may even be foul. But in the big picture of life, with hospitals trying every possible ploy to get your body on a table for a procedure, doctors perverting their mission by signing employment contracts with hospitals and agreeing to usher you into the hospital as a paying patient whenever possible, and drug companies viewing you and me as a market for medications which may or may not be helpful, l-arginine is surely not that big a burden.

Track Your Plaque and non-commercialism

If you're a Track Your Plaque Member or viewer, you may know that we have resisted outside commercial involvement. We do not run advertising on the site, we do not allow drug companies to post ads, we do not covertly sponsor supplements. We do this to main the unbiased content of the site.

We've seen too many sites be tempted by the money offered by a drug company only to see content gradually drift towards providing nothing more than cleverly concealed drug advertising. I personally find this deceptive and disgusting. Ads are ads and everyone knows it. But when you subvert content, secretly driven by a commercial agenda, that I find abhorrent.

That said, however, I do wonder if we need the participation of some outside commercial interests to help our members. In other words, many (over half) of the questions and conversations we have with people is about what supplement to take, or what medication to take. While we cannot offer direct medical advice online (nor should we) because of legal and ethical restrictions, I wonder if could facilitate access to products.

Many people struggle, for instance, with trusted sources for l-arginine, vitamin D, fish oil. Other people struggle with finding a heart scan center because of the changing landscape of the CT scanning industry. Could we somehow provide a clear-cut segment of the website that clearly demarcates what is commercial and non-Track Your Plaque-originated, yet at least provides a starting place for more info?

Ideally, we would have personally tried and investigated everything there is out there applicable to the program. But that's simply impossible at this stage.

I feel strongly that we will never run conventional ads on the site. Nor will we ever permit any outside commercial interest to dictate what and how we say something. The internet world is full of places like that. Look at WebMD. I find the site embarassing in the degree of commercial bias there. We will NEVER sell out like that, regardless of the temptation. People with heart disease are all conducting a war with the commercial forces working to profit from them--hospitals, cardiologists, drug companies, medical device companies (yes, even they advertise to the public, e.g., implantable defibrillators--no kidding). Genuine, honest, unbiased information is sorely needed and not from some kook who either knows nothing about real people with real disease, or has a hidden agenda like selling you chelation.

I'd welcome any feedback either through this Blog or through the contact@cureality.com.

The nattokinase scam

A conversation about vitamin K2 commonly leads to confusion. Several people have asked about something called nattokinase.

The scientific data on the potential role of vitamin K2 deficiency in causing both osteoporosis and vascular calcification is fascinating. Along with vitamin D3, vitamin K2 may be an important factor in regulation of calcium metabolism. Supplementation may prove to be a major strategy for inhibition of vascular calcification.

Obtaining K2 in the diet is tricky, since it's present in just a handful of foods: egg yolks, liver, traditional cheeses, and natto. This is where the confusion starts.

Natto is a Japanese fermented soy product. I've had it and it's quite disgusting. Nonetheless, Japanese who eat natto experience less fracture. (A parallel study in heart disease has not been performed.) Natto is also a source of another substance called nattokinase.

Advocates (otherwise often known as supplement distributors) claim that nattokinase is a "fibrinolytic", or blood clot-dissolving, preparation that "improves blood flow, protects from blood clots, and prevents heart attacks and strokes."

Don't you believe it. This is patent nonsense. There are several problems with this rationale:

--Any oral fibrinolytic agent is promptly degraded in the highly acid environment of the stomach. That's why all medically used fibrinolytics are given intravenously. Drug companies have struggled for years to encapsulate, modify, or somehow protect protein (or polypeptide) products taken orally from degrading this way. They've never succeeded. That's why, for instance, growth hormone (a polypeptide) remains an injection, not an oral agent. An oral growth hormone, by the way, would sell like mad, so the drug companies would very much like to figure out how to bypass the degradative effects of stomach acid. One of the "researchers" behind the nattokinase claims boasts that he has single-handedly figured out how to protect the nattokinase molecule in the gastrointestinal tract. However, he won't tell anybody how he does it. Right.

--Fibrinolytic agents are extremely dangerous. In years past, we used to treat heart attacks with intravenous fibrinolytic agents like tissue plasminogen activator, urokinase, streptokinase, and others. They have fallen by the wayside, for the most part, because of limited effectiveness and the unavoidable dangers of their use. Fibrinolytics are "dumb": they dissolve blood clots in both good places and bad. While they might dissolve the blood clot causing your heart attack, they also degrade the tiny clot in your cerebral (brain) circulation that was protective. That's why fatal brain hemorrhages, bleeding stomach ulcers, and blood oozing from strange places can also occur with fibrinolytic administration. Believe me, I've seen it happen, and I've watched people die from them.

The idea that a small dose taken orally is healthy is ridiculous. Even if nattokinase worked, why the heck would you take an agent that has known dangerous and very real consequences?

Don't let this idiocy reflect poorly on the K2 conversation, which, I believe, holds real merit and is backed by legitimate science. This is symptomatic of a larger difficulty with the supplement industry: Insane and unfounded claims about one supplement erodes credibility for the entire industry. It gives regulation-crazed people like the FDA ammunition to go after supplements, something none of us need. You and I have to sift through the nonsense to uncover the real gems in this rockpile, real gems like vitamin D3, omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil, and, perhaps, vitamin K2. But not nattokinase.

Blood pressure with exercise

Here's a frequently neglected cause for an increasing CT heart scan score: High blood pressure with exercise. Let me explain.

Paul's blood pressure at rest, sitting in the office or on arising in the morning, or at other relatively peaceful moments: 110/75 to 130/80--all in the conventional normal range.

We put Paul on the treadmill for a stress test. At 10 mets of effort (on the protocol used, this means 3.4 mph treadmill speed at 14 degree incline), Paul's blood pressure skyrockets to 220/105. That's really high.

Now, blood pressure is expected to increase with exercise. If it doesn't rise, that's abnormal and may, in fact, be a sign of danger. Normally, blood pressure should rise gradually in a stepwise fashion with increasing levels of exercise. But any blood pressure exceeding 170/90 is clearly too high with exercise. (Not to be confused with high blood pressures not involving exercise.) A handful of studies have suggested that a "breakpoint" of 170/90 also predicts heightened risk of heart attack over a long period.)

I see this phenomenon frequently--normal blood pressure at rest, high with exercise. This also suggests that when Paul is stressed, upset, in traffic congestion, under pressure at work, etc., his blood pressure is high during those periods, as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see other phenomena of underappreciated high blood pressure, like abnormally thick heart muscle (left ventricular hypertrophy), an enlarged thoracic aorta (visible on your heart scan), left atrium, perhaps even an abnormal EKG or abnormal kidney function (evidenced by an elevated creatinine on a standard blood panel).

Unfortunately, the treatments that reduce blood pressure are "stupid," i.e., they have no appreciation for what you are doing and they reduce blood pressure all the time, whether or not you're stressed, exercising, or sleeping.

Blood pressure reduction should begin with weight loss, exercise, reduction of saturated fats and processed carbohydrates (esp. wheat), magnesium replacement, vitamin D replacement. Think about CoQ10. After this, blood pressure medication might be necessary.

The message: Watch out for the blood pressures when you have a stress test. Or, if you have a friend who is adept at getting blood pressures, get a blood pressure immediately upon ceasing exercise. It should be no higher than 170/90.

Vitamin D2 vs. vitamin D3

An interesting question came up on the Track Your Plaque Member Forum about vitamin D2 vs. vitamin D3. This often comes up among our patients, as well.

Vitamin D is measured in the blood as 25-OH-vitamin D and is distinct from 1,25-diOH-vitamin D, a kidney measure, a test you do not need unless you have kidney failure.

The human form of vitamin D is cholecalciferol and is usually obtained via activation of a precursor molecule in the skin on activation by the sun. You can also take cholecalciferol and it increases blood levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D reliably.

However, there is a cheap, plant-sourced, alternative to vitamin D3, called vitamin D2, or ergocalciferol. D2 has far less effect in the body. Taking D2 or ergocalciferol orally is an extremely inefficient way to get D. Unfortunately, it's the form often used in milk and many supplements, even the prescription form of D. About half the multivitamins and calcium supplements I've looked at contain ergocalciferol rather than cholecalciferol.

Taking vitamin D2 yields very little conversion to the effective D3. This particular issues is maddening, as the USDA requires dairy farmers to add 100 units of vitamin D to milk, and D2 is often used. In other words, the D in many dairy products barely works at all. There are many children who rely on D from dairy products who are at risk for rickets and are not getting the D they need from dairy products because of this cost-saving switch. Do not rely on milk for vitamin D for your children.

D2 or ergocalciferol is often included in the blood measures of vitamin D along with vitamin D3. The only reason it's checked with blood work is to ensure "compliance,", i.e., see whether or not you're taking a prescribed ergocalciferol. Beyond this, it has no usefulness.

25-OH-vitamin D3, or cholecalciferol, is both the blood measure and the supplement you need. This is the one that packs all the punch. Keep in mind also that it is the oil-based gelcap you want, with more consistent and efficient absorption. Tablets usually barely work at all, even if it contains cholecalciferol. Most people who take calcium tablets with D, or multivitamin with D, not only are getting a powdered form of D, but also in trivial doses. It's the pure vitamin D3, cholecalciferol, in gelcap form you want if you desire all the spectacular benefits of vitamin D.
Getting vitamin D right

Getting vitamin D right

Vitamin D is, without a doubt, the most incredible "vitamin"/prohormone/neurosteroid I have ever encountered. Frankly, I don't know how we got anything accomplished in health pre-D.

Unfortunately, people I meet rarely take their vitamin D in a way that accomplishes full restoration of vitamin D blood levels. It really isn't that tough.

Here's a list of common tripping points with vitamin D:

"I take vitamin D: 1000 units a day."
This is probably the most common mistake I see: Taking a dose that is unlikely to yield a desirable blood level. (We use 60-70 ng/ml of 25-hydroxy vitamin D as our target.) Most men and women require 6000 units per day to achieve this level. There is substantial individual variation, however, with an occasional person needing much more, a rare person requiring as little as 1000 units.


"I bought some vitamin D on sale. They were white tablets."
Time and again, patients in my office who initially have had successful vitamin D replacement, despite being reminded that only oil-based forms should be taken, switch to tablets. While they initially showed a 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood level, for instance, of 67 ng/ml on 8000 units per day with an oil-based capsule, they switch to a tablet form and the next blood level is 25 ng/ml. In other words, tablets are very poorly or erratically absorbed.

I have had people use tablets successfully, however, by taking their vitamin D tablets with a teaspoon of oil, e.g., olive oil. Oil is necessary for full absorption.


"I'm going to Florida. I'll stop my vitamin D because I'm going to lay in the sun."
Wrong. 90% of adults over 40 years old have lost the majority of their ability to activate vitamin D in the skin. A typical response might be an increase in blood level from 25 to 35 ng/ml--a 10 ng increase with a dark brown tan.

There is an occasional person who, with sun exposure, increases blood levels substantially. This can occur in both fair-skinned and dark-skinned people, though I've never seen it happen in an African-American person. The occasional person who maintains the ability to convert vitamin D with sun exposure, or young people, should seasonally adjust their vitamin D dose, e.g., 6000 units winter, 3000 units summer, or some other regimen that maintains desirable blood levels. You can see that monitoring blood levels (we check levels every 6 months for the first 2 years) is crucial: You cannot know what your vitamin D needs are unless you assess 25-hydroxy vitamin D levels.


"I drink plenty of milk. I don't think I need to take vitamin D."
Oh, boy. This is so wrong on so many levels.

First of all, no adult should be drinking plenty of cow's milk. (A discussion for another day.) Second of all, cow's milk averages 70 units of vitamin D, often the D2 form (ergocalciferol), per 8 oz. Even if the FDA-mandated 100 units per day were present, an average adult dose of 6000 units would require 60 glasses of milk per day. Can you say "diarrhea"?

Likewise, other food sources of vitamin D, such as fish (300-400 units per serving) and egg yolks (20 units per yolk), are inadequate. This makes sense: Humans are not meant to obtain vitamin D from food, but from sun exposure over a large body surface area. And this is a phenomenon that is meant to occur only in the youthful, ensuring that nature takes its course and us older folks get old and make way for the young (i.e., unless we intervene by taking vitamin D supplements).


"My doctor said that my vitamin D blood level was fine. It was 32 ng/ml."

Let's face it: By necessity, your overworked primary care physician, who manages gout, hip arthritis, migraine headaches, stomach aches, prostate enlargement, H1N1, depression, etc., is an amateur at nearly everything, expert in nothing. Nobody can do it all and get it right. Likewise vitamin D. The uncertain primary care physician will simply follow the dictates of the laboratory form that specifies "30-100 ng/ml" as the "normal" or "reference range." Unfortunately, the laboratory often quotes population distributions of a lab measure, not an ideal or desirable level.

To illustrate the folly of population distributions of a measure, imagine you and I want to know what women weigh. We go to a local mall and weigh several thousand women. We tally up the results and find that women weigh 172 lbs +/- 25 lbs (the mean +/- 2 standard deviations). (That's true, by the way.) Is that desirable? Of course it isn't. Population average or population distribution does not necessarily mean ideal or desirable.


"My husband's doctor said he should take 4000 units per day. So I just take the same dose."
That would be fine if all adults required the same dose. However, individual needs can vary enormously. A dose that is grossly insufficient for one person may be excessive for another. Once again, vitamin D dose needs can be individualized by assessing 25-hydroxy vitamin levels in the blood.


"I don't need to take vitamin D. I already take fish oil."
I suspect this mistaken belief occurs either because people confuse fish oil with cod liver oil, which does contain some vitamin D. (Cod liver oil is not the best source of vitamin D, mostly because of the vitamin A content; also a discussion for another time), or because they've heard that eating fish provides vitamin D. However, fish oil capsules do not contain vitamin D unless it is added, in which case it should be prominently and explicitly stated on the label.


"I don't have to take vitamin D. It's summer."

For most people I know, if it's a bright, sunny July day, where are they likely to be? In an office, store, or home--NOT lying in the sun with a large body surface area exposed. Also, most people expose no more than 5-10% of surface area in public. I doubt you cut the grass in a bathing suit. Because of modern indoor lifestyles and fashion, the majority of adults need vitamin D supplementation year-round.


I advise everyone that gelcap vitamin D is preferable. Some, though not all, liquid drop forms have also worked. Take a dose that yields desirable blood levels. And blood levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D are ideally checked every 6 months: in summer and in winter to provide feedback on how much sun activation of D you obtain.

If your doctor is unwilling or unable to perform vitamin D testing, fingerstick vitamin D test kits can be obtained from Track Your Plaque.

Comments (90) -

  • Peter S

    1/11/2010 2:23:47 PM |

    Dr Davis

    Many thanks for your blog! I just ordered your book, too, and look forward to getting into that.

    I have a question about lab reference values which you discuss in your post.

    I just saw my physician, and am expecting Vitamin D results at the end of this week. This is the first time I have been checked for Vit D levels. At the same time, we are also checking for ferritin levels (I just finished PPLP by the Doctors Eades).

    When we looked back at my ferritin result from last year, my doctor cautioned me against taking the levels recommended in books as a criterion for judging my lab results. His argument was: every machine is calibrated differently, and the same blood sample can give widely different readings depending on the machine used. One should therefore always judge levels in terms of the reference level developed by the lab in question, which will be adapted to their machines.

    Could you comment on this? In particular, how can I know when the reference level cited on the results print out is a true reference level, and when it is a population distribution? (I leave out of the picture for now the issue as to whether the reference level is also adequately high/low in the light of the evolutionary health perspective).

    Thanks in advance for any guidance you can offer on this:
    Peter, Brussels, Belgium

  • Anonymous

    1/11/2010 2:42:33 PM |

    I'm not sure if the Vitamin D I have is oil-based or not. It's in clear softgels, it says D-3 on the front but the supplement information lists it as just Vitamin D.

    What are some good references on supplements? Scientifically based?

  • Anonymous

    1/11/2010 3:05:28 PM |

    I know that getting to optimum Vitamin D3 levels often takes a concerted effort.  On first testing of my blood levels a couple of years ago, I was shocked to only have a level of 27!  I was taking a multivitamin, and an additional 2,000 IU's of Vitamin D daily, and I live very far south in Houston.

    Long story short, I upped my daily dosage of a quality, oil-based Vitamin D3 to 4,000 IU... then to 6,000 IU...  to 8,000 IU... to 10,000 IU... to 12,000IU... all to reach a measly 51!!!  Each of these increases was preceded by testing by a blood draw at Labcorp, authorized by my doctor.  My last increase was in August to 15,000 IU's daily, accomplished by taking 3 X 5,000 IU's of an olive oil-based Vitamin D3.

    I was tested again on 12/31 and this time the Labcorp results came in at 61.3!!! Success at last!

    I would like to get my levels closer to 70, but gee... I wonder how much more I would have to take to get there?  I have had no ill effects from the current dosage, but I don't want to make this an obsession, either.

    Obviously most people won't have to take this high a dosage, or be this relentless, to reach optimum levels... but some of us will.

    Fortunately, Vitamin D3 is relatively cheap and easy to obtain... just make sure it is oil-based and/or taken with some kind of healthy oil... and taken daily.

    Thanks for the great blog, Dr. Davis!

    madcook

  • Marc

    1/11/2010 3:59:40 PM |

    Thank you as always for your great blog! I very much appreciate it.

    I use the Carlson vit d3 drops. Do you think they are ok?

    What Gelcap brand do you recommend?

    thank you and have a great week.

    Marc

  • Venkat

    1/11/2010 5:18:58 PM |

    Thanks Dr.

    I tested D3 during Apr 09 and I had 30 ng/ml.

    Dec 2009 I retested again after 8 months consuming Carlson Vitamin D oil based capsules - 6000 IU every day.

    The Dec 09 test showed me I have 77ng/ml (D3). I remember reading from a user comment in Protein power blog that for every 25 lbs of body weight, one should consume 1000 IU of D3. Since I am 130 lbs, I calculated to consume 6000 IU. The calculation came to 5000 IU, I added a 1000 IU more since it is a 2000 IU tablets.

    Just wanted to share with everyone.

    Thanks, Venkat

  • Sara

    1/11/2010 5:34:43 PM |

    Wow, great post!!

  • gibby1979

    1/11/2010 6:14:22 PM |

    hey doc
    Would taking your vitamin D at the same time as taking your fish oil end up working the same as taking it with oil?

  • zach

    1/11/2010 6:36:35 PM |

    Thanks for the post. I have some questions. What's wrong with raw, full fat milk from grass fed cows? I assume you have more sophisticated reasons than "it's meant for calfs, so adults don't need it." I question this strongly because milk, butter and cream, unprocessed from pastured animals has noticeable improved my health.

    Also, where did the Inuit and other northern dwellers get their Vitamiin D in winter if not from food? Where they chronically deficient?

  • Anonymous

    1/11/2010 7:45:57 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Given your comments about the shortcomings of sun exposure (in the majority of cases) for adults over 40, why do you think the vitamin D Council links to 3 tanning systems on their website, namely the D-Lite, Renew, & SunSplash UV/Tanning Systems?

    While I recognize that any strategy to attempt to optimize Vitamin D levels still revolves around getting the proper test done to assess/re-assess levels, it seems like you wouldn't have enough time to use the light to assess its true efficacy in individual cases prior to the point where you'd be able to return it if it proved to be ineffective.

    I'd be curious to hear your general thoughts, that is if you feel comfortable sharing them, on why they would recommend these lights if they would potentially be of little to no use in anyone over 40.

    Thank you for your time and any input.

    Ray Mardsden

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/11/2010 8:45:33 PM |

    Hi, Peter--

    The only substantial difference are the units: ng/ml in the U.S. and nmol/L everywhere else.

    To convert nmol/L to ng/ml, divide by 2.5.

    Also, the Diasorin assay is the more accurate.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/11/2010 8:46:39 PM |

    Hi, Madcook--

    Thanks for sharing your experience.

    Your case highlights the great individual variation in vitamin D needs, which can range several-fold.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/11/2010 8:47:12 PM |

    Hi, Marc--

    Not enough experience with this preparation. However, a future blood level of vit D should clear this up.

  • Matt Stone

    1/11/2010 10:29:22 PM |

    Thanks Doc.  Currently trying to bring my girlfriend's vitamin D level up from 20 ng/dl.  Your post rings true in many ways as she is Norweigen (fair-skinned) and spends all summer outdoors for work with no sunscreen to little avail.  I do wonder if it's a Vitamin D receptor problem and not an issue of intake a la Marshall protocol.

  • x.ds

    1/12/2010 12:06:56 AM |

    zach said...

        Thanks for the post. I have some questions. What's wrong with raw, full fat milk from grass fed cows?

    ************
    The problem with raw milk is lactose that causes atherosclerosis and cataract and is linked to Parkinson's disease.

  • AJ

    1/12/2010 1:38:39 AM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Quick question for you regarding Vitamin D and sunlight. If one has both tanned and untanned skin (say farmers tan) will exposure of the untanned skin to the sun help synthesize more Vitamin D than the already tanned part? In other words, is the rate at which one can synthesize Vitamin D from sunlight locally controlled or centrally controlled?

    I've tried to find this answer without much success via Google, ect. Curious if you know definitively.

    Thanks

  • LynP

    1/12/2010 3:55:43 AM |

    Hi Doc.  16 months with increasing amts of D3 (final was/is 8K/day) finally saw my initial 15 rise to 66...hippee! Been using huge amts to battle a respiratory bug (120K/day, what do I need to know about when to stop if bug lingers, ie, is it dangerous to take such lg amts for a wk or more?  Smaller amnts are useless as I am obese (losing but still obese).  

    PS My HDL went to 60 from 47.

  • mongander

    1/12/2010 4:06:50 AM |

    My wife was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago.  When tested for vit D level her doc commented it was the lowest level he'd ever seen.  I had her supplement 50,000iu/day for weeks and got her up to the 30s.  Sadly, the damage was too much and she died in Nov.

    I take 10,000/day in the "R" months and 5,000/day the rest of the year.  My level is 79 ng/ml.  At 70, I have prostate cancer and am in the "watch & wait" mode.

  • Michaela

    1/12/2010 4:35:55 AM |

    Thanks Dr Davis as always for your wealth of information. The timing of this post couldn't have been better as I've just this week been posting links to your blog to other parents in my position. I've been suggesting they read up on Vitamin D and it's benefits for heart disease. Like me 8 months ago, they had no idea of the necessity of this Vitamin or in fact any of the nutritional supplements you recommend. Since following your recommendations my son Lee has has gone from strength to strength and is leaving his Australian Cardiologist's scratching their heads!
    Keep up the great work Doc, you've been a Godsend to me.

    michaela

  • Ajana

    1/12/2010 9:10:34 AM |

    "90% of adults over 40 years old have lost the majority of their ability to activate vitamin D in the skin."

    Please can you direct me to the literature on this. Have a friend (Asian - 49 y.o.) who thinks she does need to take Vit D as she gets a few minutes of sun (face mainly) most days.

  • Kathryn

    1/12/2010 9:26:39 AM |

    I'd be curious about your opinion of another (well-known) doc's push of krill oil.  Thanks.

  • moblogs

    1/12/2010 11:02:48 AM |

    What's very concerning is that 'from' 21nmol/L up to 128nmol/L is seen as sufficient according to guidelines in London, England. At 141nmol/L I'm a real rebel!

  • TedHutchinson

    1/12/2010 12:31:21 PM |

    Deer and Reindeer feed in winter on lichen which is good source of vitamin D.
    It is reasonable to suppose eating meat with a high vitamin D status would eek out the vitamin D stored in summer.
    Eskimos tradionally fermented, in grass-lined holes, whole fish, fish heads, walrus, sea lion and whale flippers, beaver tails, seal oil, birds, etc for an extended period of time. Several of these are likely to be good sources of Vitamin D3 that would help them survive the long winter.
    Human stores of D3 would not deplete so fast in peoples not consuming grain, fructose or pro inflammatory industrially made omega 6 vegetable/seed oils.
    It isn't just reindeer and caribou that eat vitamin D rich lichen Snails, sea slugs, lemmings, musk ox, and insects also eat them, as do Eskimo groups in the Arctic.

    It is possible birds eating lichen grazing snails also have higher vitamin D status. People eating those birds would thus benefit.

    Muktuk Inuit/Eskimo meal of frozen whale skin and blubber also contains vitamin d.

    Here is a 2004 quote from a woman talking about her childhood Discover The Inuit Paradox
    Our meat was seal and walrus, marine mammals that live in cold water and have lots of fat. We used seal oil for our cooking and as a dipping sauce for food. We had moose, caribou, and reindeer. We hunted ducks, geese, and little land birds like quail, called ptarmigan. We caught crab and lots of fish—salmon, whitefish, tomcod, pike, and char. Our fish were cooked, dried, smoked, or frozen. We ate frozen raw whitefish, sliced thin. The elders liked stinkfish, fish buried in seal bags or cans in the tundra and left to ferment. And fermented seal flipper, they liked that too.”

    This 2007 study found YUP’IK ESKIMOS who consumed the most traditional foods obtained on average 1232iu/D from food.
    That is a lot more than most UK adults get from current dietary intakes.

  • TedHutchinson

    1/12/2010 12:56:42 PM |

    This Study of Belgium older women Rural Urban shows that some older women living in the less polluted rural location were still capable of making vitamin D. It was living in a polluted urban environment that made the most difference between the groups.

    But the only way you have of knowing how well your skin responds to sunlight or UVB from tubes is to get a 25(OH)D3 test.

    If you look at the plot from that study you will see there are a lot of older women (both town and country dwellers) with very low 25(OH)D status.
    So although older skin is less able to respond to UVB it MAY make useful amounts of vitamin D if given the chance (but it also MAY NOT
    A daily effective strength oil based gel capsule WILL improve 25(OH)D3 level.

  • Henry North London

    1/12/2010 3:30:04 PM |

    My blood levels of Vitamin D3 are 83ng/ml

    I achieved that by taking 50000 iu units of Vitamin D3 through September, October and November daily, I then dropped to 20000 iu ( primarily through cost and then did a fingerstick and sent it off in Mid December) I still take 20000iu a day

    I have not had a sniffle or a chest infection or anyother infection since I took it.

    Nothing,  Zip Nada,  It has been the best winter ever, because my aches and pains have gone, my health has been good and I have positively enjoyed not getting unwell at all.

    Most people look at me as if Im completely crazy when I shovel down four gel caps a day or more but I take the view that this is what my body would make in June in high summer in a bathing suit daily

    So Im happy and I have another fingerstick in 6 months time

    My grip strength has improved and I never get colds for any length of time, they are gone in 24 hours

    I  spend most of my days indoors so Im very happy now and I have darker skin too. But I had to be really ott with the gel caps to bump it up to 83ng/ml

  • SMK

    1/12/2010 4:40:12 PM |

    Dr Davis

    Thanks will be small words to decribe your blog and the immense benefits we as regular people can avail ,due to your excellent blogging efforts.

    My husband and me just got our LabCorp 25(OH) results, each severely deficient with <10 ng/ml.We have started supplementing with 6000 IU Carlson Soft gels.
    Your article did not address one question of how long does it take to bring up the numbers to about 60-70ng/ml?We have plans to add a new mmber to our family and am concerned that we should not do this until..I am not sure.Your response is much appreciated.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/12/2010 6:20:34 PM |

    Aj--

    While I know of no study directly studying this, it would make sense that untanned skin would generate the most vitamin D, since vitamin D activation is limited with tanned skin as a self-limiting phenomenon.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/12/2010 6:24:45 PM |

    Hi, Michaela--

    I'm glad your son continues to do well.

    Please stay in touch. You bring an aspect of this conversation that we don't hear much about. It might help spread the word with your enlightening experience.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/12/2010 6:25:59 PM |

    Kathryn-

    While I believe that krill has some interesting potential properties, I believe that its manufacturer has done us a disservice with its extragant and misleading claims. This will be the topic of a future blog post.


    Ted--

    Thanks for the great comments!

  • TedHutchinson

    1/12/2010 6:32:51 PM |

    @ SMK
    Circulating 25-Hydroxyvitamin D Levels in Fully Breastfed Infants on Oral Vitamin D Supplementation
    This free full text online paper details some of the work Hollis and others have done on vitamin D supplementing in pregnancy and during breastfeeding. 6400iu in total was required at latitude 32n to achieve optimum vitamin D3 in breast milk.
    This paper explains how higher vitamin D status is linked to higher testosterone levels (the full text talks about other fertility benefits) so it isn't just the mother that needs  optimum vitamin D levels.

    Grassrootshealth response chart
    there are some other graphs showing response to 5000iu/d here in the LEF SURVEY of 13000iu people
    When you study both these sources you will see it's impossible to say   for certain that 6000iu/daily WILL definitely take you over the 60ng/ml level.
    Figure 3 from the LEF article shows 5000iu only got people to average just over 40ng/ml in 3~9 months. 6000iu will do better and you may find, if you are good responders that in 2~3months a 25(OH)D test will prove you are around 60ng/ml but if you want to speed the job up, a little more D3 at this time of year (January)until April may be advantageous.

  • Rayboy

    1/12/2010 8:02:44 PM |

    There are five different forms of Vitamin D.  

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D

    Do we really know if taking a large supplement of just one of them, D3, is the absolute optimal nutritional strategy for health?  It would seem like in addition to supplements, getting some sunshine whenever possible would be a good idea, to aid our body in producing the form and amount of Vitamin D it needs.

  • Rayboy

    1/12/2010 8:32:03 PM |

    Follow-up: This site allows you to calculate how much sun exposure you need for your skin to manufacture 25 mcg of Vitamin D.  It is quite sophisticated, with fields for latitude and longitude, cloud conditions and reflective surfaces.

    http://nadir.nilu.no/~olaeng/fastrt/VitD-ez_quartMED.html

  • pmpctek

    1/12/2010 10:21:29 PM |

    "Cod liver oil is not the best source of vitamin D, mostly because of the vitamin A content; also a discussion for another time." - Dr. Davis

    Is this due to a risk of vitamin A toxicity and osteoporosis from too much synthetic forms of vitamin A and/or when vitamin D blood levels are below optimal as described in your article?

    I've read from many sources that vitamin A toxicity is not a concern as long as the sources of vitamin A are natural, such as from green leafy vegetables, organ meats, or CLO, and D3 blood levels are optimal.

    I take Garden of Life Icelandic Cod Liver Oil, which preserve the natural forms of vitamin A and D in their processes.  Most brands of CLO (especially the cheap ones) use a distillation process which destroy these vitamins.  These cheaper brands then add them back into the final product with synthetic forms.  Green Pasture's Blue Ice and Radiant Life are other brands that keep natural forms of vitamin A and D in their products.

    I take an additional 6,000IU/day D-3 gelcaps and I've been able to maintain my serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 levels at ~60ng/ml.

  • Anonymous

    1/12/2010 11:09:57 PM |

    Dr.,

    I've tried taking 1000IU of Vitamin D Gelcaps and got short of breath and felt slightly nauseous after just one dose.  I've talked to several people about this but nobody seems to have an answer.  If you have any insight, I'd appreciate it.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/13/2010 12:15:45 AM |

    Hi, Rayboy--

    I agree: Getting some sun is even better, if you have that option.

    I look out my window and it's supposed to be another 20 degree day. I will be covered head to toe, and I don't expect this will change for another 5 months.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/13/2010 12:16:37 AM |

    Anonymous--

    We see these rare reactions every once in a great while. But I am uncertain why they happen. We have had some success starting at very low doses, e.g., 800 units per day, and building up very gradually.

  • SMK

    1/13/2010 4:42:59 PM |

    Ted,Many thanks for all those links about breastfeeding and VitaminD in breastmilk.I was one of those unfortunate ones who did not get any breastmilk..just colostrum.The doctors did not bother to advice anything other than saying  formula will save the child now.
    I do suspect my Vitamin D was severely low then too.We live in PA .

    I am upping my IU for D3 now to8000/10000 daily for the next three months.

    Thanks again Dr.Davis for this blog!

  • TedHutchinson

    1/13/2010 4:50:39 PM |

    @  Rayboy
    25mcg = 1000iu As we have seen from the several surveys I've linked to, around 1000iu for each 25lbs is probably required. So either you need to expose more skin than just hands/face or spend a lot longer outside.

    There are some differences of opinion about the current state of knowledge underlying that calculator's computer model.
    Is the action spectrum for the UV-induced production of previtamin D3 in human skin correct?
    That paper points out using real people, rather than computer modelling, it has been shown conversion of 7-DHC to previtaminD occurred throughout the year 34N and below, but no production of vitamin D3 was found in the winter months of Nov~Feb at 42N (Boston) or Oct~March at 52N (Edmonton)
    It's what matters in practice that's important, not what the computer says.
    I don't want you laying naked in the midday winter sun freezing to death just because the calculator is saying that free vitamin D3 is theoretically possible when in practice we know it doesn't happen.

  • kilo.oscar

    1/13/2010 5:16:45 PM |

    Dr. Davis

    You recommend gelcaps over tablets, but what are your thoughts on chewables?

    I'm female, 120lbs, 6 months post femur fracture / pinning and taking:
    AM
    chewable multivitamin (400) + chewable calcium (200) for 600 IU
    PM
    'gummy' vitamin D (1000) + 2x oscal (400) for 1400 IU

  • Kevin

    1/13/2010 6:42:40 PM |

    I was in Colorado for a medical conference and noticed a lot of ads for tanning beds.  They're advertising that tanning beds increase Vitamin D substantially in just ten minutes a day under the lights.  

    kevin

  • Anonymous

    1/13/2010 7:19:39 PM |

    Robert S.

    Great write up Dr. Davis,

    When Dr.'s recommend getting patients blood levels checked, they are sent for 25(OH)D levels.  But would it be more optimal to have them checked for ONLY D3 and not the 25(OH)D?  What do you think is the best way to check d levels in blood is what I guess I'm asking, thank you. Smile

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/13/2010 7:27:27 PM |

    Anon--

    25-hydroxy vitamin D is the preferred test, the "repository" form prior to conversion to the 1,25-dihydroxy form.

  • Anonymous

    1/13/2010 9:47:35 PM |

    Robert S.

    Thanks for the quick reply.  Are there labs/hospitals that test  Vitamin D3 or do they only do 25(OH)D / 25(OH)2D?

  • Anonymous

    1/13/2010 11:40:36 PM |

    "We see these rare reactions every once in a great while. But I am uncertain why they happen. We have had some success starting at very low doses, e.g., 800 units per day, and building up very gradually."

    I experience milder symptoms when I drink Vit D fortified milk - but not so mild that I can continue drinking it.

  • Stephen

    1/14/2010 2:45:49 AM |

    I'm wondering the same thing another person asked - would taking D3 in tablet form with fish oil caps work?

    Thanks Doc.


    Stephen

  • Peter S

    1/14/2010 9:04:13 AM |

    Dear Dr Davis

    Thanks for confirming that. Apparently here in Belgium we have ng/ml readings too. Mine came in at 8!

    My physician is recommending a massive one-off dose to restore them to the 30 ng/ml that is believed to be normal here.

    Does anyone know if these large single doses (taken in oral liquid form) are more or less effective than regular supplementation in sustainably restoring levels?

    (I know you believe the ideal level should be somewhat higher at around 60, not 30)

    Thanks in advance
    Peter

  • jpatti

    1/14/2010 3:43:23 PM |

    Raw milk from cows on pasture has real vitamin D in it.

    When I started getting milk from a local farmer, my bp went WAY down even though I'd run out of Lisinopril.  I'm hooked on it now after not drinking any milk for decades.

    I still take my D3 supplements though.  I don't feel you can correct long-term deficiencies with just diet.  Maybe if I'd been drinking that good stuff all my life, I'd be fine, but I wasn't.

    You can find a source of milk near you here: http://realmilk.com

  • jpatti

    1/14/2010 3:45:31 PM |

    P.S. Raw milk contains lactase which handles the lactose just fine (unless you're already lactose-intolerant from years of drinking pasteurized milk).

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/14/2010 4:56:55 PM |

    Fish oil with vitamin D is not generally a reliable means of absorbing the vitamin D, since dissolution of the gelcaps may not be simultaneous. Of course, you can determine this with a blood level. I'd rather just take the gelcap.

  • zach

    1/14/2010 7:55:25 PM |

    jpatti,

    You are correct, at least in summer the milk has it. I have a milk cow and my level in summer was 70 ng/ml without supplementation for 5 months. Store bought milk has ineffective D2 added to it. The animals are in confinement and are fed grains so their milk is devoid of D. Store bought milk is unfit for human consumption. The animals are sick unto death and their product reflects that. And that's before the boiling and high pressure processing.

  • Electronic Medical Records

    1/15/2010 5:39:35 AM |

    This is an awesome update...I agree 200% with the update.There are these myths which engulf us half untrue...we live with them.

  • Chloe

    1/16/2010 5:20:34 AM |

    After joining Vitamin D Experiment Forum on lowcarb.org I took the plunge (no insurance) and paid for a 25-hydroxy vitamin D test in March 2007.  Result was 7.  Some background.  My paternal grandmother, father, and I suffered from severe seasonal affective disorder, sister had rickets as a child.  

    I started taking 14,000 IU (inched up to it) daily of Carlson's 2000 IU gelcaps and after joining GrassRootsHealth and doing home testing my next level 18 months later was 99.  I backed off to 8000 IU a day and next reading six months later was 94.  I am currently taking that 8000 IU daily and 10,000 IU daily when dark outside.  Next test coming up.  I watch that list of symptoms of overdose and so far no symptoms.  

    I have become a bit of a vitamin D preacher and have given books (The Vitamin D Cure) and a bottle or two to friends at high risk, but until the receiver is ready they care not.  One is the survivor of breast cancer and now chronic lymphocyti leukemia whose mother was a very popular herbalist in Southern California for over 50 years, another the survivor of a heart attack sustained after a stent was placed (the stent clogged), and another a black family, dark skinned who really are at more risk than pale old me.  Very reluctant and all have used one of the excuses you have listed.  Go figure.  

    Thanks for the information.  I will keep passing it along and keep trying.

  • Loïc Raharison

    1/16/2010 2:45:47 PM |

    Is there any difference with the oil used in the softgel? For example the NOW brand use Rice Bran Oil and the Carlson Lab uses Safflower oil. Any insight on this?

  • TedHutchinson

    1/16/2010 4:11:43 PM |

    Most Vitamin D3 oil based capsules are quite small, so the little extra oil, calories consumed isn't a major consideration.

    Carlson Labs, Solar D Gems, 4,000 IU  360 $29.19 are in Cod liver oil but total omega 3 content is a mere  115mg Omega-3. Most people will require additional omega 3 fish oil sources, so please don't think by taking a small Vitamin D3 Capsule in fish oil you are fully covering both D3 and Omega 3 requirement.


    Those who want to avoid soy, rice bran, sunflower oil or other industrially make omega 6 oil  may prefer either
    Country Life, Vitamin D3, 5,000 IU, 200 Softgels $10.20 in MCT oil. Medium Chain Triglyceride oil is readily burnt as fuel so less likely to be added to fat cells MCT is also less likely to go rancid.

    Another option for 10,000iu/users is Healthy Origins, Vitamin D3, 10,000 IU, 360  $23.95 these are in olive oil. (Other strengths available).

  • Sherrie

    1/17/2010 12:24:12 AM |

    I just wanted to share that towards the end of Autumn I had my vitamin D tested at 59 nmol which is around 23ng. In Australia the highest dose available seems to be 1000ui so I started with that but soon bought 5000ui gelcaps from the US. Towards the end of Spring (I live down south so this was through a winter) I tested at 150nmol which is around 60ng and was told to stop. I have fair skin and hair. I don't feel any the better or worse for it.

  • Anonymous

    1/20/2010 4:44:21 AM |

    I've been taking 5000 iu's of Vitamin D daily since the end of October and for the first time since I can remember I've made it thus far into the cold/flu season without so much as a sniffle.

    Regarding brands. I take Vitamin DDrops. Flavourless/odourless, 5 drops under the tongue every night.

    http://well.ca/products/adult-ddrops-liquid_11671.html?well_id=5jfcduigec2at21s3903023u81

    Dr. Davis, are you familiar with this particular brand? Would you recommend it? I only ask because you stated in this piece that only some forms of liquid actually work.

    Mike

  • drdonaldson

    1/31/2010 5:25:59 AM |

    Great information. I use a liquid D3 gelcap in a sesame oil base for maximum absorption.

  • Steven Low

    2/7/2010 11:03:20 PM |

    "Another option for 10,000iu/users is Healthy Origins, Vitamin D3, 10,000 IU, 360 $23.95 these are in olive oil. (Other strengths available)."

    That's the one I'm taking. Cheapest one out there ATM.

    After I wrote this: http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/10/a-closer-look-at-vitamin-d/

    I've been on 10,000 IU for about 4 months now. Feel great.

  • Ellen

    2/19/2010 3:19:55 AM |

    Dr. Davis, have you read this paper?  http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/AR-Albert-VitD.pdf

    It basically says for those who suffer from autoimmune diseases, Vitamin D supplementation may worsen disease symptoms over the long term because it acts as an immunosuppressant of reactions toward bacterial ligands to the VDR.  This allows the underlying disease to worsen over the longterm.  Your thoughts?

  • TedHutchinson

    2/19/2010 6:19:25 PM |

    Dr Davis's previous blog Marshall Protocal and Other Fairy Tales
    also consider
    Mark London's refutation of the Marshall protocol.

    It's also worth going through Mercola's detailed refutation.

    The study I refer to in Mercola's comments section (and Mark London refers to) showed that using computer modelling they found that Calcidiol, the circulating form of vitamin D, (previously regarded as inert and requiring a further hydroxylation (to become Calcitriol) before it was effective,) does in fact bind with  Calcitriol to activate the Vitamin D receptor. Calidiol isn't BLOCKING the VDR but is working in synergy with calcitriol to become effective at lower concentrations.

    There is still lots of work to be done on this but the findings that Curcumin (turmeric) also activates the VDR
    Vitamin A in excess can also bind with VDR (but in this case it does block the action and isn't helpful) The action of cucumin is helpful, it's always puzzled me why so many of the benefits of curcumin are identical to those of vitamin D3 so now we know why.
    We have to look at what actually happens in practice.
    People with higher vitamin D status generally live longer lives with less chronic illness and with fewer infections.
    If the Marshall protocol were correct  the opposite would occur. We would find in practice those with lower D3 generally had the advantage.

  • Brendan

    2/24/2010 5:59:20 PM |

    Dr Davis

    Many thanks for your post.

    I have a question. Is the presence of soy oil or corn oil in the oil-based vitamin D capsules an issue worth considering?

    I am worried about their omega 6 contents

  • TedHutchinson

    2/24/2010 7:05:46 PM |

    Country Life, Vitamin D3, 5,000 IU, 200 Softgels $10.20
    these are in MCT oil
    and
    Healthy Origins, Vitamin D3, 5,000 IU, 360 Softgels $14.95
    and these are in olive oil
    Carlson Labs, Solar D Gems, 4,000 IU, 360 Soft Gels $29.19 (note the D3 content is lower and price higher)
    these are in fish oil so provide a small (trivial) contribution to your omega 3 intake. You will still have to supplement with and EFFECTIVE amount of omega 3.

    In my view the amount of oil in these capsules isn't sufficiently great to worry about, on the whole vitamin D capsules are really quite small. So I'd rather you took the ones you have already than wait till new one without omega 6 arrive. That said I  try to eliminate every unnecessary source of omega 6 so I wouldn't choose soy, or corn oil vitamin D capsules in the first place.  

    My preference is MCT oil. MCT is very stable so doesn't readily go off. It's easily metabolized and people with inflamed or damaged digestive systems can chew them and absorb the oil/vitamin D in mouth and under tongue. Or capsule can be pierced and contents massaged into the skin preferably where the sun doesn't shine. (UVA degrades D3)

  • Jon Brassey

    4/21/2010 5:15:49 AM |

    You say that most people over the age of 40 have "have lost the majority of their ability to activate vitamin D in the skin".

    Can you point me to a reference on that please?

    Best wishes

    jon

  • TedHutchinson

    4/21/2010 1:42:08 PM |

    @  Jon Brassey
    Aging Decreases the Capacity of Human Skin to Produce Vitamin D3
    A comparison of the amount of previtamin D3 produced in the skin from the 8- and 18-yr-old subjects with the amount produced in the skin from the 77- and 82-yr-old subjects revealed that aging can decrease by greater than twofold the capacity of the skin to produce previtamin D3.

    However more recent Vitamin D research confirms providing there is sufficient cholesterol in the skin it is  possible for post menopausal women who spend time outdoors in summer to make a significant  contribution to their 25(OH)D needs (ages in that trial went up to 85yrs) However whether this is sufficient is a matter of opinion.
    I don't think it is viable to expect homes for the elderly ensure residents regularly expose sufficient skin for sufficient time to make sun exposure for the elderly a practicable route though I am sure you can guess, I personally am prepared to make the effort.

    I remember somewhere I've seen a photo of an old style UVB light suspended on the ceiling of a day lounge in an old folks home and they found it helped raise 25(OH)D.I'll try to find it.

    Who, what, where and when—influences on cutaneous vitamin D synthesis Has an interesting paragraph on age and vitamin D production you may read it here.

  • Jon Brassey

    4/22/2010 5:32:43 AM |

    @tedhutchinson thanks for the additional information.

    However, what you report appears to disagree with what Dr Davis said.

    The articles you cite indicate that those over 40 can produce Vitamin D (albeit at reduced rates).

    Dr Davis reported "90% of adults over 40 years old have lost the majority of their ability to activate vitamin D in the skin."

    Yours suggest a 2-fold decrease which - to my mind - is miles away from Dr Davis.

    I'd welcome Dr Davis's comment on this apparent discrepancy (preferably with links to citations)

  • Anonymous

    6/1/2010 11:12:34 AM |

    So last year I got on the Vitamin D wagon and went from 23 to 66 via lots of sun and 4000 IU of supplemental D. Then my doctor told me to cut back, I did to 1000IU to 2000IU per day.

    Just went for my blood test. In 4 months I am back down to 37. Ugh. The "medical" establishment makes it like keeping a healthy level of vitamin D is easy (ie just go for a walk), but it isn't. I suspect either their original information on how easy it is to get vitamin d was totally wrong, or perhaps humans have changed via over 100 years largely inside.

    I did want to say I have been using tabs and not oil based pills. Either they work for me or I take them with oily foods (I take it with my bagel in the morning with Olivio)

  • Freewoman of England

    6/1/2010 2:30:43 PM |

    Olivio?  Margarine?  That stuff kills

    Its 79% rapeseed margarine is Olivio

    I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole Butter is better for you

  • Anonymous

    6/5/2010 5:22:17 AM |

    Hi
    Very nice and intrestingss story.

  • Anonymous

    7/23/2010 5:48:08 AM |

    why should no adult drink milk?

  • josephmoss

    8/2/2010 11:48:36 AM |

    Vitamin D3 Supplements:

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    For more details please visit:
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  • charlie salem

    8/24/2010 3:38:54 PM |

    I am epileptic and getting put on a ketogenic diet. The National Hospital our place of (so called) excellence in the UK have all but given up from me and will not test my Vitamin D3. Do the the drugs i take (Keppra and Tegratol) have an effect on D3?
    Charlie Salem www.iamcharliesalem
    charliesalem883@googlemail.com

  • max

    8/26/2010 10:17:50 AM |

    vitamin d can recieve by sunlight?

  • Lucy

    9/12/2010 12:01:10 AM |

    Hello-I believe this is my first time posting a comment here.  

    I just wanted to say, because of what I've been reading, last week during a routine diabetic checkup, I asked my doctor to order a vitamin D test.  She was reluctant.  She said it wasn't something they commonly checked for.  I insisted and she wrote out the order.

    Here's what came back:
    Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total: 14
    Vitamin D, 25-OH, D3: 14
    Vitamin D, 25-OH, D2: <4

    She prescribed 1,000-1,600 of vitamin D a day plus 15 minutes in the sun w/out sunlotion.

    I don't think she knows what she's doing! I found some gel 1,000 capsules an started taking 2,000 a day. The diagnostic notes also say: Optimal levels are > or = 30 ng/ml (Whatever that means!). As for the D3 and D2, the notes say "Reference Range Not established.

    Just wanted to say THANKS YOU! for the information you provide.

  • TedHutchinson

    9/12/2010 8:25:34 AM |

    @ Lucy
    > or = 30 ng/ml (Whatever that means!)
    ABOVE or EQUAL to 30ng/ml

    The reason the < (below) 4ng/ml D2 score was not added to your D3 score is that 4ng/ml is below the test accuracy threshold, so cannot be relied upon.

    30ng/ml (or 80nmol/l)is the level below which actual damage to the skeleton can be measured and is the level at which calcium absorption is generally maximised.
    However some people do not maximise bone mineral density till well above 40ng/ml (100nmol/l).
    But vitamin D enables far more than just calcium absorption and 40ng/ml (100nmol/l) is considered the lowest level at which basic daily needs are met but this isn't sufficient to enable vitamin D3 storage in tissue. To achieve reasonable reserves of D3 a level around 60ng/ml is required.
    At that level breast milk is a vitamin D3 replete food for human babies.
    Although there is a huge individual difference in response to daily D3 supplementation in practice 5000iu/daily only just maintains status above 40ng/ml amounts nearer to the quantity full body exposure creates are required. Hollis & Wagner found 6400iu was required to optimise vitamin D in breast milk.
    Because diabetes is an inflammatory condition the demand on vitamin D resources is greater, most diabetics, (like celiacs) require substantially more D3 to obtain the same results. (Diabetes also increases magnesium usage so bear in mind Dr Davis's magnesium recommendation is generally advise supplementation with the well-absorbed forms, magnesium glycinate (400 mg twice per day) or magnesium malate (1200 mg twice per day))
    From that same post we see Dr Davis says "aim for 25-hydroxy vitamin level of 60-70 ng/ml. This usually requires 6000 units per day, though there is great individual variation in need. As you are diabetic it is likely your need will be greater rather than lesser.
    May I suggest 5000iu/daily may be more appropriate with the possibility of having to take a total of 10 capsules each week to average just over 7000iu/daily if a retest in 3 months shows 5000iu/d + sun still produces too a low a 25(OH)D. WAB666 saves $5 at IHERB whose shipping to UK is cheapest, the same item may be cheaper elsewhere.

  • Ashley

    10/21/2010 6:01:37 AM |

    What if my level of vitamin d is 84.9 ng/mL? Should I still take a supplement?

  • TedHutchinson

    10/21/2010 8:36:28 AM |

    @ Ashleymy level of vitamin d is 84.9 ng/mL? Should I still take a supplement?"
    Really depends where you live.
    If you live in the Southern Hemisphere and will spend more time outdoors with skin exposed to sunshine over the peak summer months then maybe it would be an idea to reduce intake by 1000iu/d or use 2000iu alternate days.
    1000iu/d less should drop 25(OH)D 10ng/ml.
    If you live in the Northern Hemisphere 25(OH)D naturally declines from October until the end of Feb, so continue with the 2000iu and only consider reducing intake by 1000iu/d midsummer next year.

  • Ashley

    10/22/2010 5:13:34 AM |

    Thanks! I live in Tucson, Arizona, and am only 26.

    Perhaps I'll take the 2000 IU every other day?

    Or is taking a steady dose daily better in your opinion?

    Also, do you agree that taking calcium when having this high of a vitamin D level can lead to increased calcium/plaque? Might this explain a high Lp-pla2 test of 193 and a high HS-crp of 3.5?

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 3:07:28 PM |

    Likewise, other food sources of vitamin D, such as fish (300-400 units per serving) and egg yolks (20 units per yolk), are inadequate. This makes sense: Humans are not meant to obtain vitamin D from food, but from sun exposure over a large body surface area. And this is a phenomenon that is meant to occur only in the youthful, ensuring that nature takes its course and us older folks get old and make way for the young (i.e., unless we intervene by taking vitamin D supplements).

  • the Wonderer

    11/15/2010 8:30:29 PM |

    Very useful post, but I'm puzzled by this:
    "(Cod liver oil is not the best source of vitamin D, mostly because of the vitamin A content; also a discussion for another time)"

    Are you saying the vitamin A content of cod liver oil is a problem? What about the position of the Weston A. Price Foundation that A and D should be taken in a 5-to-1 ratio of A to D because they work together syngergistically and each protects against possible overdose toxicity in the other. Is there evidence to shoot that contention down?
    Thanks.

  • id scanner

    11/27/2010 3:05:11 AM |

    Vitamin D is carried in the bloodstream to the liver, where it is converted into the prohormone calcidiol.It is a fat-soluble vitamin that is naturally present in very few foods. It  is essential for promoting calcium absorption in the gut

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    12/31/2010 5:27:05 AM |

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  • Forzest

    1/4/2011 5:59:32 AM |

    Your article has given me loads of knowledge, I keep reading it daily.

  • liposculpture guide

    1/13/2011 11:05:55 AM |

    Get at least 10-30 minutes of daily sunlight. Your body naturally produces Vitamin D when skin is exposed to sunlight. I like your post.

  • Ken D Berry MD

    1/16/2011 6:10:46 PM |

    I am a Family Physician and I'll have to admit that supplementing all of my 50-plus yo patients with Vitamin D is cutting into my income!

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  • paul

    4/29/2011 6:23:40 AM |

    Vitamin D is definitely very vital for our health. We should always include this vitamin in our diet. Thanks for sharing.

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  • Calina Jane

    5/4/2011 10:07:55 AM |

    Vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin that is naturally present in very few foods, added to others, and available as a dietary supplement. It is also produced endogenously when ultraviolet rays from sunlight strike the skin and trigger vitamin D synthesis.

  • daniel hirsch

    5/9/2011 9:19:39 AM |

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  • Sandra

    10/27/2011 8:27:57 PM |

    I am a breastfeeding mom and both I and my little one (7.5 months old) have a cold at the moment. I'm not sure how much vitamin D I should take so that my baby would get enough from my milk. Or do I need to supplement her anyway? My levels are 61.8 ng/l and I am taking 5000 IU/day, sometimes a bit more if I forget to take it some days or I feel under the weather. In case she gets the flu or a cold  like she did now, how much can I give her to boost her immune system? How much can I take?

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