More catheterizations would make me happy!

I received this fax today from a cardiologist seeking a position:

"I would prefer to perform as many interventions [stents, angioplasties, etc.] as possible..."

That about sums it up, doesn't it? The goal of this young man, trained in major universities including Columbia University, Harvard, and Emory, is not to pursue an avenue of investigation or healthcare that yields real answers. His goal is to perform as many procedures as possible.

This attitude is deeply ingrained in cardiologists. It's also shared by all procedural medical specialties: the drive to do more and more procedures. It's not because it does more good for the public, but it fulfills a primitive impulse to spread your influence, enlarge your territory, and--of course--make more money.

Personally, I find this impulse repulsive. The fact that this young cardiologist looking for a position is willing to make this statement out in the open demonstrates how widely accepted this attitude is. Imagine your cancer surgeon, looking for a new job, said, "I'm looking to remove as many tumors as I can."

My colleagues have lost sight of the fact that we're trying to reduce or eliminate disease, not enrich our pockets or service some primitive impulse to beat others at our game.

"I hate fish oil!"

I get this comment occasionally, usually from the fishy belching that can occur, rarely because of other crazy effects like rash, fishy body odor, etc.

In the vast majority, fish oil is a benign but wonderfully effective agent. Track Your Plaque followers know that fish oil, starting at 4000 mg per day of a standard 1000 mg capsule preparation, dramatically reduces triglycerides and thereby raises HDL, partially suppresses small LDL, and is the best agent available for reducing postprandial (after eating) abnormalities like IDL and certain VLDL fractions.

However, an occasional person (about 1 in 20) just doesn't like the effects. Are there alternatives? Fish oil packs such a wallop of beneficial effects that can not be replaced by any other single agent or lifestyle practice. For this reason, we have a number of easy strategies to enhance your tolerance for fish oil. (Of course, if your and/or you doctor determine that you're allergic to fish oil, then you should indeed avoid it; thankfully, this is rare.)

Helpful strategies include:

--Refrigerate fish oil capsules--this cuts back on fish belching.
--Take only with meals. This also may increase fish oil's benefits on suppressing after-eating lipoprotein abnormalities.
--Take an enteric-coated preparation--this delays breakdown of the tablet/capsule, making fishy belching less of an issue. Sam's Club has an inexpensive preparation.
--Take liquid fish oil. Usually orange or lemon flavored, liquid fish oil may be a faint fishy taste and odor, but usually not as prominent as the capsules. There's also less stomach upset.
--Coromega--a paste form of fish oil available at health food stores or through http://www.coromega.com. Coromega tastes fruity and comes in little squeeze envelopes.
--Frutol--Pharmax, a British company, makes another fruity fish oil that is non-oily and tastes like apricot. It's actually fairly reasonably priced, too. However, it is hard to find. The only way I know to get is to go online at www.pharmaxllc.com. You may have to actually order through a health care provider.

When using any preparation of fish oil, the best way to determine your dose is to add up the EPA and DHA content. For instance, if you use a fish oil liquid that contains 320 mg EPA and 240 mg DHA per teaspoon, you will need two teaspoons a day to achieve the equivalent of our starting dose of 1200 mg of EPA+DHA, usually provided by 4000 mg total in 4 capsules. Note that some lipid and lipoprotein disorders will require higher doses, e.g., 1800 mg EPA+DHA for high triglycerides (>200 mg/dl) or high IDL.

Sudden death in athletes

A recent report in the Journal of the American Medical Association details how a group in the Veneto region of Italy cut back on the incidence of sudden cardiac death in athletes by a simple screening program.



You can read the abstract of the article at http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/296/13/1593.

Although sudden death in athletes is still a rare event, it is especially tragic when it happens. In this population, the incidence was 3.6 deaths per 100,000 athletes aged 12 to 35 years. By implementing a simple screening program that involved only a physical examination and an EKG, an astounding 89% reduction in sudden death was documented.

What lessons does this hold for those of us interested in coronary plaque reversal? Beyond the obvious lesson of pointing out the great benefit of simple screening of athletes, I believe that it tells us the value of simple screening tools for heart disease in general. It is my strong belief that, if we were to implement CT heart scans among the broad population of men 40 years and over, women 50 years and over--without regard to cholesterol or other relatively lame risk identifiers--we could slash the risk for heart attack and death 90% or more. Putting CT heart scans into the hands of the public makes your coronary risk obvious. It takes the guesswork out of risk predictors like cholesterol and high blood pressure.

But heart scans are already available, you say! Yes, of course they are. But the lack of insurance reimbursement continues to be a restricting factor for many people, despite the number of lives that could be potentially saved and the money that would be saved in the long run by reducing need for major heart procedures. The continuing resistance to prevention by my cardiology colleagues and the persistent ignorance of primary care physicians also remain major impediments.

But it's getting better. You don't have to be chained by ignorance. Put your CT heart scan to good use.

My heart scan was wrong!



Tom came into the office ready for a confrontation.

Tom's wife insisted that he see me to discuss the implications of his CT heart scan score of 459. At age 50, this was clearly bad news that placed Tom in the 99th percentile (worst 1% of men in his age group).

But Tom had already undergone a stress test. There had apparently been a small abnormality, and a heart catheterization had been performed by another cardiologist. "They told me they didn't need to do anything. No stent, no ballon, no bypass, nothing!"

I asked, "Did they tell you that there was any plaque or blockages seen?"

"Yeah, but he said it was nothing. So the heart scan was wrong!"

I've been here many times before. I explained to Tom that, no, his heart scan was not wrong. All the tests he'd undergone siimply provided a different perspective on the same disease. You could say:

--The stress test, being a test of blood flow, may have been abnormal because of the abnormal constrictive behavior of arteries containing plaque, known as "endothelial dysfunction", because the inner lining of arteries (the endothelium) control the tone of the artery. Abnormal constriction in arteries with plaque is quite common.

--The catheterization simply showed that no plaque had collected in a configuration to block flow, thus no stent, etc., since flow was normal. But there was indeed plaque.

All three tests were right; none were wrong. They all provided a little different perspective on the same process. Of course, I favor the heart scan as the means to identify, precisely measure, and track the atherosclerotic plaque in your arteries. The stress test is too crude and only measures flow, the catheterization is not something you'd want to undergo year after year. Catheterization also is too crude a measure to precisely track plaque growth or reversal.

So I explained to Tom that, even though a stent or similar procedure was unnecessary, he remained at substantial risk for heart attack due to plaque "rupture". In fact, Tom's heart attack risk was 5% per year, or approximately 50% over the next decade. That is, indeed, substantial. In fact, you might say that, of the three tests Tom underwent, only the heart scan revealed his true risk.

Fish oil in the news



Hooray for the New York Times. They ran an article pointing out the miserable and inexcusable failure of American physicians to use fish oil after heart attack.

“It is clearly recommended in international guidelines,” said Dr. Massimo Santini, the hospital’s chief of cardiology, who added that it would be considered tantamount to malpractice in Italy to omit the drug.

...in the United States, heart attack victims are not generally given omega-3 fatty acids, even as they are routinely offered more expensive and invasive treatments, like pills to lower cholesterol or implantable defibrillators. Prescription fish oil, sold under the brand name Omacor, is not even approved by the Food and Drug Administration for use in heart patients."

The article focuses on the use of fish oil only after heart attack and doesn't tackle the larger issue of how fish oil is crucial for coronary disease in general. Of course, the article doesn't address the extraordinary effects of fish oil on lipoproteins, particularly triglyceride-containing varieties like VLDL and the postprandial (after-eating) intermediate-density lipoprotein (IDL).

It also talks about prescription fish oil and just glosses over fish oil as a nutritional supplement. I know of few reasons to use the prescription form. More than 90% of the time, nutritional sources of fish oil do the trick. (That is, fish oil capsule supplements, not just eating fish which doesn't provide enough for coronary plaque reduction or control.)

Occasionally, I'll meet someone who has a severe hypertriglyceridemia (very high triglycerides), or is a Apo E 2/2 homozygote (very rare). These special instances may, indeed, do better using prescription fish oil, since it is more concentrated--one prescription capsule providing the same omega-3 fatty acid content as three conventional capsules (1000 mg fish oil, 300 mg EPA+DHA).


But for most of us, the standard fish oil supplement you buy at the health food store or department store does just fine. If you read about the impurity of fish oil supplements (likely prompted by the manufacturer of Omacor, prescription fish oil), refer to the studies by Consumer Reports and Consumer Labs, both of which found no mercury or pesticide residues in dozens of fish oil preparations tested.

Look on the bright side. The conversation is growing. Fish oil, whether prescription or my favorite, Sam's Club Members' Mark brand, is a fabulously effective supplement with benefits that, in nearly all cases, exceeds the benefits of drugs.

Fish oil is an absolute requirement for your Track Your Plaque program and for you to hope to achieve control or reduction of your heart scan score.

Nutritional approaches to homocysteine reduction


For an in-depth discussion of nutritional approaches to homocysteine reduction, see my new article, Nutritional Therapies for Managing Homocysteine , in the most recent issue of Life Extension magazine. You'll find it at:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/oct2006_report_homocysteine_01.htm

The report contains a detailed discussion of how to use foods to control homocysteine levels. Though I'm not a homocysteine-crazed fanatic like Life Extension publisher, William Falloon, I still there's some interesting aspects of homocysteine metabolism that need to be explored. I also think there's some genuine benefit to reducing homocystine, preferably with foods, secondarily with supplements.

Also see our recent update on homocysteine on the www.cureality.com website at:
http://www.cureality.com/library/fl_01-006homocysteine.asp

In the update, we tried to make sense of what the new studies on homocysteine treatment, NORVIT and HOPE-2, tell us in light of all the other studies on homocysteine that preceded them.

The American Heart Association diet guarantees you get heart disease!

Perhaps I stated that too strongly.

But the fact remains: the diet advocated by the American Heart Association is awful. The foods endorsed by their approach have no place on a list of healthy foods. Yes, you will find vegetables and fruits, etc.. But you will also find that the 2006 American Heart Association Diet and Lifestyle Recommendations dance around the issue of what foods to avoid. There's no explicit mention of how, for instance, common foods like Shredded Wheat cereal, ketchup, low-fat salad dressings, etc, among thousands of others, should be avoided.

No matter how you time your meals, mix them, combine proteins, fats, and carbohydrates, etc., you simply cannot squeeze health out of products like breakfast cereals, instant mashed potatoes, dried soup mixes, wheat crackers, etc. Yet these are the sorts of foods that are implicitly allowable in the Heart Association's diet program.

You can obtain a little insight into the motivations behind the diet design by looking at the Heart Association's Annual Report list of major supporters:

--ACH Food Companies--maker of Mazola margarine and corn oil. A contributor of between $500,000 and $999,000 to the Heart Association.

--ConAgra Foods--You know them as Chef BoyArdee, Peter Pan peanut butter, Kid Cuisine (pizza, macaroni and cheese). ConAgra contributed between $500,000 and $999,000 to the Heart Association.

--Archer Daniels Midland--Huge worldwide supplier of wheat flours, high-fructose corn syrup, and basic ingredients for manufacture of soft drinks, candies, and baked foods. ADM contributed between $1-4.9 million dollars to the American Heart Association.

Of course, the Heart Association provides many hugely positive services like funding research. But, on many official statements, you need to read between the lines. The Heart Association is funded by industry: medical device makers, drug makers, food manufacturers. Yes, some is contributed in the interest of health. But you can be sure that lots of money is also contributed in the hope of protecting specific commercial interests. Many of those decisions are made behind closed doors or on the golf course.

Be skeptical. Just because the Heart Association diet is a Casper Milquetoast version of a health program, it does not mean that you have to subscribe to their watered-down, politically correct, and downright useless nutrition recommendations.

I'm just right!

Ben is an energetic 45-year old entrepreneur. He started his own security alarm company and has, with tremendous hard work and long hours, built it into a successful local business. Despite his long hours, he found time to coach his son's football team and help with raising his 3 kids.

Ben's life took a detour when he had urgent bypass surgery at age 39. Just three years later, the chest pains and fatigue he'd experienced before bypass returned. Another heart catheterization revealed that all of his bypass grafts except one had closed. Three stents were implanted to salvage his original coronary arteries.

That's when I met Ben. Shockingly (perhaps I should know by now!), Ben was taking Lipitor and had been advised to follow a low-fat diet. That was the full extent of his heart disease prevention program. The burning question that I wanted answered was "Why did a 39-year old man have heart disease?".

Our analysis uncovered a smorgasbord of hidden patterns. You name it, Ben had it: postprandial (after-eating) patterns like IDL, low HDL, and, most notably, small LDL and lipoprotein(a). That's why Ben had heart disease as a 39-year old man--plain and simple.

We proceeded to correct all of his patterns. But the one aspect of his program that he struggled with: weight. At 5 ft 9 inches, Ben started at 285 lbs before bypass. He did manage to get to 270 after his surgery. I told him that, if he was going to get full control of his small LDL pattern, he needed to get to <210 lbs, perhaps even lower. Without substantial weight loss, he would never seize full control over coronary plaque.

Ben was satisfied that we had identified the hidden causes of his heart disease. But he remained skeptical that that magnitude of weight loss was necessary. Built like a football player, he looked stocky but not outright fat. He got down to 240 lbs but then he decided that he looked too skinny and just went right back up to 250-260 in weight.

At a weight of 250, this puts Ben's BMI (body mass index) at around 37, way over the cut-off of 30 for obesity. Now, the BMI can be misleading in people with larger frames and more muscle. But Ben undeniably had a generous abdomen, encasing the visceral fat that drives small LDL.

Unfortunately, Ben remained skeptical until I put three more stents into his right coronary artery last evening.

Small LDL is a powerful activator of lipoprotein(a). In other words, there's something peculiarly evil about the combination of small LDL and lipoprotein(a) that brings out the worst in both. You can't correct just one or the other. You've got to correct both. Don't learn this lesson the hard way.

I think (hope) that Ben is on track to get to around 200 lbs.

Prevention: Bad news in bits and pieces

Jan clearly did not want to talk about her heart scan. Her score of 502 came as a shock to her. After all, she'd survived breast cancer just a year earlier, having been through dozens of radiation treatments, chemotherapy, not the mention the emotional upheaval.

Now I was telling Jan that she had a very high heart scan score with a heart attack risk of 5% per year. Then we got to her lipoprotein patterns: Jan had several striking abnormalities, including a misleading LDL cholesterol that underestimated her true LDL by nearly 100% (LDL particle number), small LDL, and the dreaded lipoprotein(a).

"I can't handle this! Why did I get the stupid scan in the first place?!"

Giving her a chance to collect her emotions, I discussed how, even though this business can be frightening, it's far--FAR--better than the alternative: heart attack at 3 am, rush to the hospital, stents, bypass surgery, etc. Or, death for the >30% of people who don't make it to the hospital in time.

That's why I often tell people that prevention of disease is bad news in bits and pieces. But it's a lot more manageable this way. Coronary plaque is a controllable process. You don't have much control in the midst of a heart attack.

A second chance

Stewart had a CT heart scan in 2004. Score: 475.

As always in the Track Your Plaque program, Stewart had his lipoproteins assessed. Among his patterns were LDL 157 mg/dl, severe small LDL, and the (post-prandial, or after-eating) IDL. Stewart was also "pre-diabetic" with a blood sugar of 123 mg/dl. Blood pressure was also a major issue. Although initially concerned, life and distractions got in the way, and Stewart's attentions drifted away.

Two years of a lackadaisical effort and Stewart's heart scan score was 600, a 26% increase. Not as bad as it could have been doing nothing (i.e., 30% per year), but still far from great. But, even with the increase in score, we still really didn't get Stewart's attention. He went about his business with a very lax dietary program, overindulging in breads, crackers, goodies, hot dogs, etc., and following a virtually non-existent exercise program except for playing golf once or twice a week.

Unfortunately, Stewart started having pains in his chest with very minimal efforts like climbing a single flight of stairs. His stress test proved abnormal. Stewart then received a stent in his left anterior descending coronary and another in his circumflex. His right coronary artery had a 40-50% blockage, close to requiring a stent.

I stressed to Stewart that this had been preventable. Should motivation remain unchanged, the next step would be bypass surgery.

I think I finally succeeded in getting Stewart's attention. He found the prospect of a bypass operation a lot more concrete than the idea of progression or regression of coronary plaque. So Stewart is being given a second chance. Unfortunately, we will no longer be able to track Stewart's plaque very effectively, since two of three arteries now contain stents, and only the right coronary remains scorable.

I hope Stewart succeeds. But I sure wish he had done this earlier. He had realistic hopes of never requiring stents or bypass surgery.

Learn from Stewart's mistakes. Attention to your program requires vigilance. You can't ignore the causes of your coronary plaque for any length of time without it catching up to you. But seize your first and best chance.
Food sources of vitamin K2: Reprint

Food sources of vitamin K2: Reprint

For some reason, my December, 2007, Heart Scan Blog post, Food sources of vitamin K2, has been receiving a lot of traffic.

I therefore reprint the vitamin K2 post below.





Vitamin K2 is emerging as an exciting player in the control and possible regression of coronary atherosclerotic plaque. Only about 10% of dietary vitamin K intake is in the K2 form, the other 90% being the more common K1.

The ideal source of K2 is natto, the unpalatable, gooey, slimy mass of fermented soybeans that Japanese eat and has been held responsible for substantial decreases in osteoporosis and bone fractures of aging. Natto has an ammonia-like bouquet, in addition to its phlegmy consistency that makes it virtually inedible to anyone but native Japanese.

I say that the conversation on vitamin K2 is emerging because of a number of uncertainties: What form of vitamin K2 is best (so-called MK-4 vs. MK7 vs. MK-9, all of which vary in structure and duration of action in human blood)? What dose is required for bone benefits vs. other benefits outside of bone health? Why would humans have developed a need for a nutrient that is created through fermentation with only small quantities in meats and other non-fermented foods?

Much of the developing research on vit K2 is coming from the laboratories of Drs. Vermeer, Geleijnse, and Schurgers at the University of Maastricht in the Netherlands, along with several laboratories in Japan, the champions of K2.

MK-7 and MK-8,9,10 come from bacterial fermentation, whether in natto, cheese, or in your intestinal tract; MK-4 is naturally synthesized by animals from vitamin K1. While natto is the richest source of the MK-7 form, egg yolks and fermented cheeses are the richest sources of the MK-4 form.

Chicken contains about 8 mcg MK-4 per 3 1/2 oz serving; beef contains about 1 mcg. Egg yolks contain 31 mcg MK-4 per 3 1/2 oz serving (app. 6 raw yolks). Hard cheeses contain about 5 mcg MK-4 per 3 1/2 oz serving, about 70 mcg of MK-8,9; soft cheeses contain about 30% less. Natto contains about 1000 mcg of MK-7, 84 mcg MK-8, and no MK-4 per 3 1/2 oz serving.















Feta cheese

Thanks to the research efforts of the Dutch and Japanese groups, several phenomena surrounding vitamin K2 are clear, even well-established fact:

--Vitamin K2 supplementation (via frequent natto consumption or pharmaceutical doses of K2) substantially improves bone health. While K2 by itself exerts significant bone density/strength increasing properties in dozens of studies, when combined with other bone health-promoting agents (e.g., vitamin D3, prescription drugs like Fosamax and calcitonin), an exaggerated synergy of bone health-promoting effects develop.



--The MK-4 form of vitamin K2 is short-lived, lasting only 3-4 hours in the body. The MK-7 form, in contrast, the form in natto, lasts several days. MK-7 and MK-8-10 are extremely well absorbed, virtually complete.

--Bone health benefits have been shown for both the MK-7 and MK-4 forms.

--Coumadin (warfarin) blocks all forms of vitamin K.





Interestingly, farm-raised meats and eggs do not differ from factory farm-raised foods in K2 content. (But please do not regard this as an endorsement of factory farm foods.)

Another interesting fact: Since mammals synthesize a small quantity of Vit K2 forms from vitamin K1, then eating lots of green vegetables should provide substrate for some quantity of K2 conversion. However, work by Schurgers et al have shown that K1 absorption is poor, no more than 10%, but increases significantly when vegetables are eaten in the presence of oils. (Thus arguing that oils are meant to be part of the human diet. Does your olive oil or oil-based salad dressing represent fulfillment of some subconscious biologic imperative?)

If we believe the data of the Rotterdam Heart Study, then a threshold of 32.7 micrograms of K2 from cheese yields the reduction in cardiovascular events and aortic calcification.

It's all very, very interesting. My prediction is that abnormal (pathologic) calcium deposition will prove to be a basic process that parallels atherosclerotic plaque growth, and that manipulation of phenomena that impact on calcium depostion also impact on atherosclerotic plaque growth. Vitamins D3 and K2 provide potential potent means of at least partially normalizing these processes.

As the data matures, I am going to enjoy my gouda, Emmenthaler, Gruyere, and feta cheeses, along with a few egg yolks. I'm going to be certain to include healthy oils like olive and canola with my vegetables.


All images courtesy Wikipedia.

Copyright 2007 William Davis, MD

Comments (59) -

  • Chloe

    1/19/2010 3:11:02 AM |

    "Egg yolks contain 31 mcg MK-4 per 3 1/2 oz serving (app. 6 raw yolks)."

    Any data on the effect of cooking or methods of cooking that would affect the MK-4 in eggs?  Soft boiled, hard boiled, fried (I use coconut oil or butter)whole yolk like over easy, scrambled, in a quiche?  

    Any thoughts on other fermented foods and vitamin K--sauerkraut, kim chi, dill pickles?  

    And...I have the Thorne Vitamin K2 supplement that supplies vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) one drop equivalent to 1 mg (1250% %DV).  How number of drops daily?

    Thank you, Dr. Davis, for bumping this information to more current status.

  • Dexter

    1/19/2010 3:24:22 AM |

    Dr Davis,

    I have read on several blogs that
    canola oil...rapeseed oil...is one of the frankenfood oils to avoid
    along with corn oil, soybean oil,
    safflower oil because they are high in PUFA omega 6 and thus are pro inflamatory agents.
    Dr Kurt Harris at Paleonu.com is one who has written to avoid canola as well as flaxseed oil.

  • Ed

    1/19/2010 3:26:55 AM |

    I thought bone marrow had k2 in it? If so, this would have been a very appealing source to primitive man.

  • Dexter

    1/19/2010 3:28:06 AM |

    Dr Davis,

    I was under the impression that canola oil as well as flaxseed oil
    is to be avoided because of the high PUFAs Omega 6 FA.

    Dr Kurt Harris at paleonu.com has written to avoid those oils high in O-6s.

  • Stan (Heretic)

    1/19/2010 3:30:21 AM |

    Another beneficial effect of K2 is reversal of tooth decay and self-healing of broken teeth.   This is based on my personal observations.

  • Hillary

    1/19/2010 4:17:06 AM |

    An interesting study was published within the past several years, by Chris Masterjohn.  His study was to identify the "activator X" factor reported by Dr Weston Price in the early 20th century as being found in the butterfat, organs and fat of animals feeding on rapidly growing green grass (i.e. in the spring).  "X" was also found in fish roe and perhaps other seafood.  

    Dr Price believed the vitamin-like 'activator X' was critical for the body's utilization of minerals, prevention of tooth decay, brain function, protection against heart disease and so on. He was never able to identify this factor but did concentrate butterfat (from (spring) grassfed cows) into a butter oil which he gave to patients in his studies on various health issues, with reportedly excellent results.  At least one company today sells butter oil produced from grassfed cows under the same conditions and I know several people who are convinced this has helped keep their families healthy.

    For more than 60 years no one knew what activator X actually was until Masterjohn investigated it in detail.  It is his belief that activator X is vitamin K2.  His study (with references)can be found at: http://www.westonaprice.org/On-the-Trail-of-the-Elusive-X-Factor-A-Sixty-Two-Year-Old-Mystery-Finally-Solved.html#summary

    Hillary

  • pmpctek

    1/19/2010 4:23:45 AM |

    Don't forget butter fat is another very good source of vitamin K2 MK-4.

    Weston Price would argue that dairy fat and eggs from farm raised animals fed (K1 rich) fast-growing grass do have a higher K2 content when compared to grain-fed factory raised animals.  Much of modern animal feeds have high amounts of menadione (a K3 supplement) but the animal's ability to synthesis this to K2 is unknown.

    Price's analysis also showed that  a human intestine's ability to synthesis K1 to K2 is much less efficient compared to that of a ruminant's intestine.  I guess that also kind of explains why humans wouldn't do as well on a diet solely consisting of grass as that of a cow.

    http://www.westonaprice.org/On-the-Trail-of-the-Elusive-X-Factor-A-Sixty-Two-Year-Old-Mystery-Finally-Solved.html

    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/06/vitamin-k2-menatetrenone-mk-4.html

  • Anonymous

    1/19/2010 4:35:50 AM |

    DH tried natto because he's intolerant of eggs, casein and a few other foods. He didn't care for it. How many servings of chicken does he need in a week? Would chicken broth have any?

  • LeenaS

    1/19/2010 5:55:08 AM |

    You did not mention butter as a decent K2-MK4 source. Why?

    Butter and cream are our greatest sources of K2, next to egg yolks.

    Thanks for the blog and regards,
    LeenaS

  • Vladimir

    1/19/2010 6:10:31 AM |

    Do you think it would be a good idea to take Vitamin K2 supplements?  Life Extension has one with 1mg MK-4, 100 mcg MK-7, and 1mg Vitamin K1.  Good idea, or premature?

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/19/2010 1:27:43 PM |

    I believe that the data on K2 are compelling. Does K2 supplementation , or at least weighing diet in favor of K2-containing foods, reduce cardiovascular risk or provide better atherosclerotic plaque control? While the circumstantial evidence suggests it will, we still lack the K2 vs. placebo trial that would prove the concept. Nonetheless, because of the data on bone health (which is quite confident), I personally believe there's nothing to lose. I personally supplement 1000 mcg per day.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/19/2010 1:28:47 PM |

    Pmp and Leena--

    Thanks for reminding me about the butter.

  • Anonymous

    1/19/2010 2:51:58 PM |

    Observational studies have linked low intakes of vitamin K with osteoarthritis. No research yet as to whether this vitamin can be used to treat that disease, but I think there is some promise there. More natto, eggs, and leafy green veggies for me.

  • Phil

    1/19/2010 3:02:56 PM |

    Dr Davis,

    So glad to see your posting on Natto. Could please elaborate on the desirability of consumption of Natto by people who are on Warfarin therapy? You mention that Coumadin blocks all forms of Vit-K and I seem to have read that taking K2 while being on Warfarin is okay. Any pointers to published literature is welcome!

    Thanks,
    Phil

  • TheOtherKim

    1/19/2010 6:11:29 PM |

    I'll second Dexter's question.  I too, was under the impression that canola oil was not a "healthy" fat.

  • Jim

    1/19/2010 6:37:35 PM |

    Another Weston A Price article written by Chris Masterjohn is at

    http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/Cure-for-Cancer-Activator-X-May-Be-the-Missing-Link-1799.html.html

    Note the C(ancer) word in the link.

  • Katie

    1/20/2010 12:08:00 AM |

    Dr. Davis, I am heterozygous for Factor V Leiden.  I'm not on any anticoagulants, such as warfarin, and have not had any complications.  I am really interested in K2 supplementation because it seems to have so many health benefits, but have been nervous because of my blood clotting condition.  Do you know if K2 supplementation is safe in someone with one Factor V Leiden gene mutation?

  • Coach Jeff

    1/20/2010 3:05:30 AM |

    Could the atherosclerotic plaque found in Egyptian Mummies possibly have been a mere vitamin-k deficiency? I just never bought the theory that it was totally caused by their grain consumption.

  • Anonymous

    1/20/2010 3:21:08 PM |

    I am on warfarin since December for AFib/flutter which is OK now with sotalol.   I told the cardiologist I didn't like taking warfarin since it destroyed vit K.  He said no, it was the other way around, vit K destroys warfarin, and said "we want you to take vit K".  My INR stays low and they keep increasing the dose.   I believe that warfarin is a vit K antagonist, the more I take the more it will destroy the vit K.  

    I can feel it when I am arrhythmic, I weigh 115 lbs, am 62, female and have a low CHADS score, some borderline HBP for which I take norvasc. 15 years ago I had mitral valve repair for a flail leaflet.  How much should I argue with him?   I already have osteopenia.

  • cete

    1/21/2010 4:50:19 AM |

    There was a study on low dose warfarin after coronary artery bypass to see if it helped prevent graft occlusion. It didn't. What they did find was a reduction in mortality after bypass with the warfarin, of about 30%. What I wonder is if adding more vitamin K as a supplement will make you more prone to clot. I worry that this could be a case where there is less calcium, but more clotting in the arteries with the extra vitamin k as one of those unintended consequences.

    I would like to here your thoughts about this.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/21/2010 12:02:04 PM |

    Provided you are not taking warfarin (Coumadin), vitamin K2 supplementation or eating foods rich in K2 should NOT make your blood clot any more than normal.

    I tell my patients that taking vitamin K2 is no more likely to make your blood clot than filling your gas tank to the top makes your car go faster.

  • natto freak

    1/21/2010 4:50:04 PM |

    I just love my Natto and vitamin K2 supplement. Nothing clears my brain fog like Natto.

  • cete

    1/22/2010 4:59:28 AM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Thanks for your answer. I take a lot supplements and over the years have added and dropped some due to changes in information about efficacy and safety. With my terribly high calcium score, 686- I have familial hypercholesterolemia, I have been interested in the Vitamin K2 supplements. What has held me back is the question of safety. Over the years some of trials of supplementation with vitamins and other natural compounds that seemed to make sense didn't turn out well clinically. Specifically, I was thinking of the failure of benefit from folic acid supplementation for elevated homocysteine and the problems associated with beta carotene in smokers.

    Perhaps it is time now for me to give the Vitamin K2 a try.

  • David Moss

    1/22/2010 9:29:09 PM |

    Great post, I'm always after information on K2 (although I read the article in its original form too!).

    Anyway I was interested to see feta in your list and photographed... I thought that feta being a basically unmatured cheese would be quite low (I used to eat tonnes of 18month-5 year matured cows cheese before I switched only to goat/sheep dairy, so I'd be interested if it was worthwhile eating feta for K2.

    I always wondered how much the amounts cited for "hard cheese" varied from cheese to cheese, and how much was from fermentation and how much from cheese being 80% butter.

  • Anonymous

    1/24/2010 6:35:38 PM |

    back in 2002, I had an angiogram due to a series of waring signals and family history. Turns out I had two blockages but somehow my heart had built its own pathways around hence no heat attack. The Surgeon said, he couldn't do much and I needed to get on medication as soon as possible. I won't bother with details but I did slowly make progress to be able to cycle and walk long distances but I always had jaw ache and tightness in my chest just after starting any exercise. I would stop catch my breath, wait for the pain to subside and neither symptom would show again until I went through a rest period.

    In Canada the max allowed K2 dose  is 120mcg. Having looked at the various studies, and mechanisms, I decided K2 was my best bet to see some improvement. I was taking 6 capsules of 120mcg MK4 per day. I felt a whole lot better. So, on a trip to the States, I purchased Life Extension "Super K" which is 1000mcg or 1grm of MK4 and mega-dosed for 6 weeks on 6grm/day.  I am back down to one capsule now but I no longer get ANY angina on changes to intensity of exercise. I played soccer in the summer. I even went Jogging in the first part of winter without any issues (heart at least, my lungs are way out of shape!)

    Is K2 in high dose safe? I have no idea, but I feel it has worked for me and like so many life style choices, that is a big element in one's well-being.

  • livesimply

    1/25/2010 2:29:26 AM |

    I am hypothyroid and avoid all soy; also gluten and casein sensitive so avoid gluten foods and dairy.  I do eat whole eggs regularly and leafy greens with hi-oleic safflower oil or avocado oil.  And since butter is mostly fat and very little casein I do have a fair amount of that, too.  Smile

    Should I therefore avoid the natto (soy) form of K2 and stick with MK-4 or MK-8?  

    Thanks--very interesting topic.

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  • Anonymous

    2/22/2010 4:36:52 PM |

    Great post, first of all!!!

    Second of all, I have a comment on this part of your post:

    "--The MK-4 form of vitamin K2 is short-lived, lasting only 3-4 hours in the body. The MK-7 form, in contrast, the form in natto, lasts several days. MK-7 and MK-8-10 are extremely well absorbed, virtually complete. "

    While this is true, it tells us nothing about which form is better for human physiology.  Although MK-4 disappears from the bloodstream rapidly, that could either be a good or bad thing.

    On the one hand, this could indicate that MK-4 is rapidly taken up by cells, and thus has a greater physiological absorption than MK-7.  MK-7 hangs around much longer in the bloodstream, but this could very well mean that MK-7 is NOT used by human cells very well.

    On the other hand, it could be that MK-4 is being rapidly removed and excreted from the bloodstream.

    I suspect that the more likely scenario is the first, because the human body does not produce any MK-7 at all.  If you consume MK-1 (phylloquninone) the human body will process some of this into MK-4.  If you take human tissues samples, you will find ONLY MK-4.... no MK-7 or MK-9 at all.

    MK-4 is what mammals produce naturally, so it is likely the most physiologically active.

    Just a comment.

    -greg

  • chave

    3/3/2010 6:14:59 PM |

    Hi Dr. Davis
    I've been very interested in the Japanese and their lower postmenopausal hip fracture and heart disease rates.  I'm probably one of the people who added to the traffic on your K2 info.

    What also interests me is that the Japanese (and most Asians in general) traditionally use very little in the way of milk products too.  They have low fracture rate and low BMD, interestingly.  They only consume about 500mg of calcium per day mostly through vegetable sources.

    I have a study that rated the relative importance of K, magnesium, Vitamin d and calcium in relation to fractures and calcium had the lowest association if any at all.  Vitamin K was strongly associated.

    Ecological studies show that cultures that consume less milk have lower fracture rates and that as they consume more milk their rates go up.

    Also, I've been reading a bit on the so-called bone-vascular axis and how there might be a connection between osteoporosis and vascular calcification.

    Is it possible that the recommendation to consume 3 daily helpings of dairy and supplemental calcium is contributing to the much higher fracture rate and heart disease in the West?

  • Cris P (Alonzo Neighbor)

    4/6/2010 6:30:10 PM |

    Dr Davis - like a previous poster, I have a factor V (Leiden) heterozygosity. I am currently taking a D3 tab with K2 several times a day for bone health as I now have ostopenia in my neck and osteoporosis in my spine.  I have previously had a TIA and am concerned about another or a full-blown stroke.  After my TIA, my cardiologist found a PFO, which further complicates things.  Is it safe for me to take up to 1,000 mcg of K2 daily?  Thanks

  • sammy

    4/9/2010 2:16:07 PM |

    If you’re looking for a supplement to assist in bone health, consider VitaNat Natural Natto Vitamin K2. This takes natto, the Japanese superfood known for being nature’s richest source of Vitamin K, and puts it into capsules. No extracts, no vitamin supplements, just Natto blended to a standard strength of Vitamin K2. Vitamin K2 is recognised for its role in maintaining good bone health, for more information look up www.vitanatshop.com.

  • Anonymous

    5/12/2010 12:17:12 AM |

    Canola oil is not 'healthy'.  It is processed and most likely GMO.  The industry promoted it as health... Go with Coconut Oil instead! Cheers! Smile

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  • Anna Delin

    10/4/2010 8:21:07 PM |

    I would add fermented (lactic acid bacteria) herring as a potentially vitamin K2 rich food. This food is traditionally eaten in August in north Sweden. It has a horrible smell (H2S), but the taste reminds me of well matured cheese (think rural France).

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    11/3/2010 9:08:48 PM |

    Much of the developing research on vit K2 is coming from the laboratories of Drs. Vermeer, Geleijnse, and Schurgers at the University of Maastricht in the Netherlands, along with several laboratories in Japan, the champions of K2.

  • Richard the Foolhardy

    12/23/2010 7:05:29 PM |

    What labs can, or where/how can I, do a test for vitamin K2 level in the blood, preferrably with a report that distinguishes between MK-4 and MK-7?

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  • Janet

    7/6/2011 1:32:11 PM |

    Can anyone tell me where I might find Natto minus MSG?

    Thanks a bunch.

  • daniel ketchum

    7/13/2011 5:20:47 AM |

    Ok so k2 is produced by bacterial fermentation but of what nutrient? i have not been able to find any info on what nutrient the bacteria converts into k2 is it k1? or something else.. if its k1 then wouldn't fermentation of foods high in k1 produce the most k2? If so then is Natto loaded with k1?  Just curious because i just tarted making my own sauerkraut and lacto fermented vegetable juice...Have never even tasted Natto but i am going try it and if i like it well ill just have to start making that to...been making homemade curds and whey for awhile now and that should be a good source to. Also it seems that some of the fermented foods that have the most k2 (Natto, sauerkraut) in them are also very high in PQQ which is awesome!!!

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  • Alfina

    10/14/2011 12:04:16 AM |

    Found your question why googling K2 when testing positive for Factor V.  I wanted to begin taking vitamin K2 to help in the calcium buildup in my arteries but now found about about Factor V and cannot seem to find information online. Have you received a reply to this question from 2010?

  • GB

    11/18/2011 4:15:34 PM |

    A question: If you take a look (google them) at several websites (such as whfoods) where they look at foods that contain the vitamin K, it seems that whole foods such as Kale along with other leafy greens provide a huge amount of vitamin K - I was surprised to see that this was not mentioned among the various comments - rather supplements are mentioned first and foremost – is this because the Vitamin K and the Vitamin K2 are different? - doesn’t one come from the other? Can someone explain this as I will always try to do through diet first before resorting to supplements?

  • Dr. William Davis

    11/20/2011 3:59:11 PM |

    Yes, two different nutrients.

    K1 comes from green vegetables, K2 does not.

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