Beware the "false positive" stress test

There's a widely-known (among cardiologists) problem with nuclear stress tests. It's called the "false positive." (Nuclear stress tests are known as stress Cardiolites, stress thalliums, stress Myoviews, persantine stress tests, adenosine stress tests)

Stress tests, nuclear and otherwise, are helpful for identifying areas of poor blood flow. If an area of poor blood flow is detected and the area is substantial, then there may be greater risk of heart attack and other undesirable events in the relatively near future.

What "false positive" means is a stress test that shows an abnormality but it's not true--it is falsely abnormal. There are a number of reasons why this can happen. The problem is that this phenomenon is very common. Up to 20% of nuclear stress tests are false positives.

There are indeed situations where there may an abnormality and it is not clear whether it is true or false. This may lead to a justifiable heart catheterization or CT coronary angiogram. But, given the extraordinary number of false positives, there's a lot of gray in interpreting these tests. Hospital staff, in fact, call nuclear medicine "unclear" medicine. It's common knowledge that you can often see just about anything you want to see on a nuclear image of the heart. Abnormalities in the bottom of the heart, the "inferior" wall, are especially common due to the overlap of the diaphragm with the heart muscle, yielding the appearance of reduced blood flow. Defects in the front of the heart heart are common in females with large breasts for the same reasons.

The problem: The uncertainty inherent in nuclear stress tests opens the door to the unscrupulous or lazy practitioner. Any blip, tick, or imperfection on the nuclear images serve as carte blanche to drag you into the hospital for procedures.

This abusive practice is, in my experience, shockingly common for two reasons: 1) It pays better to do heart catheterizations, and 2) Defensive medicine.

What's the disincentive? Only doing the right thing and maintaining a clear conscience. Slim reasons for many of my colleagues--and a lot less money.

If you are without symptoms and feel fine, and a nuclear stress test is advised by your doctor, followed by a discussion of an abnormality, insist on a discussion of exactly what is abnormal, just how abnormal, and what the alternatives might be. If you receive unsatisfactory or incomplete answers despite your best effort, it's time for another opinion.

Don't neglect your magnesium

Magnesium is kind of boring. So most people don't pay too much attention to it.

Magnesium can be important, however. I saw an interesting phenomenon recently. A type I diabetic patient of mine (that is, an adult who developed diabetes as a child), Mitch, was experiencing wide swings in blood sugar: low low's and very high high's (300-400 mg/dl). Mitch's magnesium was only marginally low at 2.0 mEq/L. (Ranges for normal magnesium blood levels are usually 1.3–2.1 mEq/L or 0.65–1.05 mmol/L.) Note that Mitch's blood levels fall within "normal." I do not agree with these "normal" ranges. I shoot for 2.1 to 2.4 mEq/L, which I think is the truly normal range.

In addition to eating plenty of raw nuts and green vegetables, Mitch began supplementing magnesium with magnesium citrate, 200 mg twice a day (our preferred supplement form). He reported that the wide swings in blood sugar were nearly eliminated.

Mitch's dramatic benefit is just a great illustration of how magnesium can help control blood sugar metabolism. A type I diabetic is more sensitive to the effects, but anyone with type II (adult) diabetes, metabolic syndrome, or just a slightly high blood sugar could benefit from magnesium supplementation.

There's a number of ways to accomplish getting sufficient magnesium in your daily regimen. Track Your Plaque members, Be sure to read:


Your water may be killing you at
http://www.cureality.com/library/fl_03-002magnesium.asp

Magnesium: Water to the rescue! at http://www.cureality.com/library/fl_03-010magnesium2.asp

Third heart scan a charm

It struck me recently that, for many people, it's not the second but the third heart scan that more commonly shows a reduction in score.

I think this is because many people's reaction to their first heart scan is "This can't be. There's no way my arteries have that much plaque." They then follow a half-hearted program to correct their patterns.

When the second heart scan shows a significantly higher score, that really catches their attention. This is when they finally buckle down and give it their all.

Only the occasional person will, after the first heart scan, seize full control and take their program very seriously. These tend to be highly motivated people.

Don't feel too bad if your second heart scan score shows an increase. Look at it for what it represents: feedback on the adequacy of your program.

Metabolic syndrome--cured

Peter started out at age 59 at 248 lbs, standing 6 ft tall (BMI = 33.6!).

Along with his weight, Peter had the entire panel of phenemena of the so-called "metabolic syndrome", or pre-diabetes:

--Triglycerides 238 mg/dl and associated with extremes of excess VLDL and IDL
--High blood pressure
--Blood sugar 115 mg/dl
--High c-reactive protein
--Small LDL particles 99% of total LDL

Interestingly, Peter's HDL was a surprisingly favorable 58 mg/dl (HDL is usually low in this syndrome). However, when broken down by size, he had nearly zero large, healthy HDL (sometimes called HDL2b). Though total HDL was favorable, most of it was simply ineffective.

Peter eliminated snacks and processed foods, particularly bread; increased his reliance on healthy oils and lean proteins; incorporated soy protein; increased vegetables. He added 30 minutes of a rapid walk on a treadmill every day. He added vitamin D to achieve a blood level of 50 ng/dml. He added a magnesium supplement.

Peter has lost 31 lbs. in the last year. Weight 207 lbs., BMI 28.1 (desirable <25). Blood sugar: 96 mg/dl; triglycerides: 56 mg/dl; HDL 71 mg/dl with 35% in the large fraction; small LDL 45% of total. Not perfect, but a damn site better.

Control of metabolic syndrome is an achievable goal for over 90% of people, just with these simple efforts. We haven't yet had a chance to assess the effect on the progression or regression of Peter's heart scan score, but he has, at the very least, spared himself a future of diabetes and all its complications.

Heart Scan Curiosities #6
















This is a "slice" from a normal heart scan in a 58 year old woman. Heart scan score zero. Look at the lungs, the dark areas left and right of the heart in the center. The lungs are also normal. Black represents normal density, healthy lung tissue. The white streaking is just normal lung blood vessels. This person doesn't smoke.


















This woman smokes a pack of cigarettes a day and has done so for 45 years ("45 pack-years"). She had a surprisingly low heart scan score (at age 64) of only 71, despite the smoking. However, look at this woman's lungs. It's a little tough to make out, since the computer graphics loses some of the resolution. But you can see the near absence of lung tissue on both sides. This is an advanced phase of the destructive lung disease, emphysema, from smoking. Even if she quit smoking today, the destroyed lung tissue never grows back. She literally has huge gaps or holes in her lungs where lung tissue used to be.

Smoking is among the most destructive, terrible things you can do to your body, short of swallowing strychnine or jumping off a building. Stay as far the heck away from cigarettes as you possibly can. If you are exposed to "secondary" smoke, insist that the person never smoke in your presence. It's not the smell that destroys your lungs or causes coronary plaque (though it is indeed foul), it's the actual smoke.

Should you become a vegetarian?

Do you need to become a vegetarian in order to reduce your heart scan score?

No. Plain and simple. We’ve had many non-vegetarians drop their scores.

That said, are there still advantages to following a vegetarian diet, or some variation on the vegetarian theme?

Yes, there are. Let’s put aside the moral or religious arguments in favor of not eating animals—the need to eliminate killing animals for food, elimination of suffering common in modern livestock practices, Kosher considerations, etc. (Not that there aren’t real arguments here. Our focus for this conversation is not, however, the moral dilemma, but the health argument.)

Some of the most unhealthy people I’ve ever met, mostly males, are proud carnivores who boast of their prodigious capacities to eat meat. Unfortunately, it’s hard to tease out the ill-effects of excessive meat eating, since these same men also tend to be substantially overweight, smoke, drink excessively, and fail to get exercise unless their job is physically demanding. You know the type.

What advantages does a vegetarian obtain? A number of studies have suggested that the reduced saturated fat, reduced exposure to parasites, as well as reduced exposure to the antibiotics and hormones now used routinely in livestock-raising practices, do indeed provide benefits to the vegetarian. Thus, vegetarians tend to be substantially thinner, experience less bowel cancer, have less diabetes and heart disease, and live longer.

(If you are interested in reading or seeing more about just how inhumane modern livestock practices are, take a look at the video, "Meet Your Meat" at meat.org. Be sure not to view this after dinner.)

Of course, some of the disadvantages of eating animal products diminish when free-range livestock are eaten, i.e., livestock not raised in the inhumane cramped, filthy conditions of livestock factories, but in the open, grazing or rooting freely. These animals tend to have different fat compositions and taste different.

The advantages of vegetarianism, however, have blurred in recent years, since many so-called vegetarians have failed to maintain the distinction between naturally-occurring foods and processed foods. So, Ritz Crackers, Oreo cookies, whole wheat bread, and Raisin Bran fit into a vegetarian program, but they’re awful for your health. I’ll occasionally meet a self-proclaimed vegetarian who looks every bit as unhealthy as a conventionally eating American, that is, overweight, pre-diabetic person with a developing heart scan score.

So it is not necessary to be vegetarian to reduce your score. You might consider vegetarianism for other reasons, such as moral considerations, or to reduce your risk for cancer. But it is not necessary to drop your heart scan score. A non-processed food diet? Now that's is worth giving serious consideration.

Let's make it a lot easier

The American Heart Association just released a new set of consensus guidelines on heart disease prevention in women: Evidence-Based Guidelines for Cardiovascular Disease Prevention in Women: 2007 Update

For those of you following the Heart Scan Blog and the Track Your Plaque program, there will be little new in the guidelines. In fact, you'll wonder if the date on the front of the report should be 1987, rather than 2007. Did you know that you should exercise and eat healthy?

Take a look at the list of risk factors for coronary vascular disease (CVD) listed in the report:

Major risk factors for CVD, including:
Cigarette smoking
Poor diet
Physical inactivity
Obesity, especially central adiposity
Family history of premature CVD (CVD at <55>

Progress: You'll notice that buried inside the list is "Evidence of subclinical vascular disease (e.g., coronary calcification)". Just a few short years ago that wouldn't have even been included.

The Track Your Plaque contention is that, for the great majority of women, this list could be shortened to one item: coronary calcification. As time goes on, the people who argue and draft these guidelines will come to the realization that coronary calcification is the disease--it's not a risk for the disease, a predictor of the disease. Coronary calcification is the disease itself. The other items on the list recede way into the background when you know whether or not coronary atherosclerosis is present, i.e., you know your heart scan score (of coronary calcium).

The report goes to say such things as taking a little bit of fish oil is a good idea, maintaining a normal blood pressure is desirable. . . yada yada yada. You've heard this all before.

A major part of the treatment guidelines are devoted to LDL cholesterol reduction with statin agents. You shouldn't be surprised. It's amazing what $22 billion dollars in revenues will buy.

A closing paragraph reads:

'Population-wide strategies are necessary to combat the
pandemic of CVD in women, because individually tailored
interventions alone are likely insufficient to maximally prevent
and control CVD. Public policy as an intervention to
reduce gender-based disparities in CVD preventive care and
improve cardiovascular outcomes among women must become
an integral strategy to reduce the global burden of
CVD.'


Say that again? If you understood that bit of gobbledygook, you're a lot smarter than me.

Don't look to the American Heart Association report for any new ideas. It reminds me of the politician who reminds everybody of what a devoted family man he is: It has nothing to do with his policies. It just makes him look good. If compared to prior report, the 2007 report does indeed represent progress--but just oh so little.

No wonder nobody talks about real prevention

Take a look at this eye-opening statement taken from a well-written NY Times article about Dr. Arthur Agatston, the South Beach Diet and now South Beach Heart Program books:


'We have made major improvements in prevention,” Dr. Gregg W. Stone, the director of cardiovascular research at Columbia University, says. “But it’s difficult. It takes frequent visits, a close relationship between a physician and a patient and a very committed patient.'

Which is exactly the atmosphere Dr. Agatston’s practice tries to create. Nurses there give patients specific cholesterol goals to meet and help them deal with the side effects of the drugs they are taking. A nutritionist, Marie Almon, meets with patients frequently enough to discuss real-life issues like how to stick to a high-fiber Mediterranean diet even on a cruise or a business trip.

There is only one problem with this shining example of a medical practice: it is losing money.



From NY Times, January 24, 2007. What’s a Pound of Prevention Really Worth? (Find the full text at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/24/business/24leonhardt.html?ex=1172379600&en=4268a738e82857da&ei=5070.)

It gets at one of the fundamental reasons why your cardiologist will probably never talk to you about an intense approach to prevention: it doesn't pay. Because John Q. Cardiologist focuses, instead, on how to increase procedural volume, train how to put in the next best defibrillator, etc., there is little consciousness about preventive issues. Just the simple matter of taking fish oil causes their eyes to glaze over.

That's why the Track Your Plaque program exists: it is a portal for the kind of information you cannot get. Of course, you could read all the scientific studies, attempt years of trial and error, and try to gain a sense of how to do this yourself. Or you could follow this program. We are proud to not worry about generating procedural profits. We ar unbiased by drug or medical device money. We say exactly what we mean.

By the way, we are on a current push to really "beef-up" our online discussions via real-time chat. Long-term, we'd like to be able to offer chat with our staff many hours every day. Be patient. It will happen, but not today.

HDL and vitamin D

I know of no published reports on this question, but I've now seen numerous people experience significant jumps in HDL with raising blood vitamin D to 25-OH-vitamin D3.

Last week, for example, I had a man who had struggled with raising HDL from a starting level of 28 mg/dl. On niacin, exercise, weight loss, fish oil, red wine, and cilostazol (a prescription agent that I use occasionally that raises HDL), his HDL rose to 41 mg/dl--better, but hardly to our goal.

I added vitamin D, 4000 units, and raised his 25-OH-vitamin D3 level from 22 ng/ml to 53 ng/ml. Next HDL: 73 mg/dl! Small LDL improves along with a rise in HDL.

Not everybody's response is this dramatic. I see more typical rises of 5 to 10 mg/dl every day. I'm uncertain of why the response is inconsistent, though people who begin with lower vitamin D levels seem to experience a larger HDL increase. I wonder if the partial normalization of insulin and glucose responses is at work, or some anti-inflammatory effect.

Vitamin D provides so many other benefits, as well as HDL-raising. I hope you've gone to the effort to have your blood level checked to determine your replacement need. If not, now's the time. February represents your nadir (lowest point) for 25-OH-vitamin D3 blood levels.

Even more Michael Pollan

"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

That, more or less, is the short answer to the supposedly incredibly complicated and confusing question of what we humans should eat in order to be maximally healthy. I hate to give away the game right here at the beginning of a long essay, and I confess that I’m tempted to complicate matters in the interest of keeping things going for a few thousand more words. I’ll try to resist but will go ahead and add a couple more details to flesh out the advice. Like: A little meat won’t kill you, though it’s better approached as a side dish than as a main. And you’re much better off eating whole fresh foods than processed food products. That’s what I mean by the recommendation to eat “food.” Once, food was all you could eat, but today there are lots of other edible foodlike substances in the supermarket. These novel products of food science often come in packages festooned with health claims, which brings me to a related rule of thumb: if you’re concerned about your health, you should probably avoid food products that make health claims. Why? Because a health claim on a food product is a good indication that it’s not really food, and food is what you want to eat."


Michael Pollan, author of my latest favorite book, The Omnivore's Dilemma, wrote a wonderful piece for the New York Times entitled "Unhappy Meals". You can find the full text at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?ex=1172120400&en=a78c20f4da0cdc7b&ei=5070. (Another favorite read of mine, The Fanatic Cook's Blog at , alerted me to Pollan's article. Incidentally, take a look at the Fanatic Cook's latest posts--very entertaining and informative. She's got incisive insight into foods as well as a great sense of humor.)

Pollan goes on to say that...

"...typical real food has more trouble competing under the rules of nutritionism, if only because something like a banana or an avocado can’t easily change its nutritional stripes (though rest assured the genetic engineers are hard at work on the problem). So far, at least, you can’t put oat bran in a banana. So depending on the reigning nutritional orthodoxy, the avocado might be either a high-fat food to be avoided (Old Think) or a food high in monounsaturated fat to be embraced (New Think). The fate of each whole food rises and falls with every change in the nutritional weather, while the processed foods are simply reformulated. That’s why when the Atkins mania hit the food industry, bread and pasta were given a quick redesign (dialing back the carbs; boosting the protein), while the poor unreconstructed potatoes and carrots were left out in the cold.

Of course it’s also a lot easier to slap a health claim on a box of sugary cereal than on a potato or carrot, with the perverse result that the most healthful foods in the supermarket sit there quietly in the produce section, silent as stroke victims, while a few aisles over, the Cocoa Puffs and Lucky Charms are screaming about their newfound whole-grain goodness."


Not everything Pollan says is new, but he says it so eloquently and cleverly that he's worth reading. If you haven't yet read Omnivore's Dilemma, or just want a condensed version of the book, the New York Times piece is a great piece of the world according to Michael Pollan.
Increased blood calcium and vitamin D

Increased blood calcium and vitamin D

Conventional advice tells us to supplement calcium, 1200 mg per day, to preserve bone health and reduce blood pressure.

Here's a curious observation I've now witnessed a number of times: Some people who supplement this dose of calcium while also supplementing vitamin D sufficient to increase 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood levels to 60-70 ng/ml develop abnormally high levels of blood calcium, hypercalcemia.

This makes sense when you realize that intestinal absorption of calcium doubles or quadruples when vitamin D approaches desirable levels. Full restoration of vitamin D therefore causes a large quantity of calcium to be absorbed, more than you may need. In addition, two studies from New Zealand suggest that 1200-1300 mg calcium with vitamin D per day doubles heart attack risk.

We have 20 years of clinical studies demonstrating the very small benefits of supplementing calcium to stop or slow the deterioration of bone density (osteopenia, osteoporosis). These studies were performed with no vitamin D or with trivial doses, too small to make a difference. I believe those data have been made irrelevant in the modern age in which we "normalize" vitamin D.

Should hypercalcemia develop, it is not good for you. Over long periods of time, abnormal calcium deposition can occur, leading to kidney stones, atherosclerosis, and arthritis.

Until we have clarification on this issue, I have been advising patients to take no more than 600 mg calcium supplements per day. I suspect, however, that the vast majority of us require no calcium at all, provided an overall healthy diet is followed, especially one that does not leach out bone calcium. This means no foods like those made with wheat or containing powerful acids, such as those in carbonated drinks.

Comments (50) -

  • renegadediabetic

    6/21/2010 1:18:12 PM |

    Sometimes I think that the RDAs only apply to the current high refined carb, nutrient depleting diet most americans eat.  

    This is just more proof that the current calcium "requirements" are overstated and probably intended to market dairy products or calcium fortified processed foods.

  • Katie

    6/21/2010 1:42:19 PM |

    I always thought the recommendations for supplementing with calcium were probably wrong.  I've heard that Americans eat more calcium-rich foods and supplement with more calcium than other Western countries, but yet suffer from the highest amount of osteoporosis/osteopenia.  

    This wouldn't surprise me, given the importance of having the right amounts of calcium, Vitamin D, and Vitamin K2.  I've seen other doctors/researchers recommend that Vitamin D always be taken in connection with sufficient intake of Vitamin K2 to help prevent hypercalcemia.  I do not supplement with calcium, but I do supplement with D3 and K2 and have had no problems

  • Anonymous

    6/21/2010 1:45:19 PM |

    Dr. Davis is wheat a bad idea because of the phosphates which demineralize bones ? If so then lentils and peas and beans would be quite high in phosphates too? would the recommendation be to lower their consumption as well?

    Thanks.!

  • PJNOIR

    6/21/2010 2:56:32 PM |

    Calcium as a supplement is one of the toughest to assimilate in the body- I can't see how an accurate number can be assessed as too much (or too little)

  • scott

    6/21/2010 3:28:53 PM |

    I wonder how much calcium is in Gerolsteiner Water.  Dr. Davis has recommended this in the past, but probably for the magnesium content.

  • Anonymous

    6/21/2010 3:37:16 PM |

    1) It would seem that anyone speaking of vitamin D, is being a little misleading as we should most likely be talking about D-2 or D-3. Or never talking about D-2 and always about D-3 as it is the more bio-active.
    2) Increase K-2 to take care of the D-3 / calcium problem.
    3) Blood tests to keep track of all three of them.

  • miannotta

    6/21/2010 4:51:37 PM |

    Would supplementing with vitamin K2 help alleviate the problem of too much calcium in the blood? It's function is to redirect blood calcium to the bones. Or is the jury still out on this?

  • Anonymous

    6/21/2010 5:20:33 PM |

    This is a point also made in the current posting of "Diabetes Update"

  • Steve

    6/21/2010 6:11:04 PM |

    Apparently alot of people are reporting issues with vitamin d supplementation. You may have hit the nail on the head, Dr Davis. Here is a website that has over 200 comments from people experiencing issues.
    http://ctheblog.cforyourself.com/2008/12/overdosing-on-vitamin-d-side-effects.html

    Steve

  • Jenny

    6/21/2010 6:55:53 PM |

    Since I ran into just this problem (and blogged about it elsewhere) I want to add this:  You don't have to be supplementing with pills to run into this problem.

    If you are eating a classic low carb diet and eating cheese rather than meat for much of your protein your calcium intake can get high pretty fast.

  • Bobber

    6/21/2010 7:19:02 PM |

    Are you familiar with Dr. Cordain's work on Acid/Base balance?
    http://thepaleodiet.com/nutritional_tools/acid.shtml

  • Anonymous

    6/21/2010 10:17:14 PM |

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19113911

    Men don't need more than 626 mg/day calcium, and women with D > 20 ng/ml don't need more than 566 mg/day.

  • Jessica

    6/22/2010 12:43:32 AM |

    We usually recommend that individuals stop taking a calcium supplement once they've reached the target D level (70-90 ng/mL).

    We always draw a serum calcium with a 25(OH) level.

    Detected several cancers in our patients this way (hypercalcemic prior to starting D supplementation).

    Also, I'm about 8 months pregnant with our first child and you think cardiology is behind the times with Vitamin D, try OB! They're living in the dark ages.

    Fortunately my OB is more versed than most and the fact that I take 10,000 IU daily doesn't make him too uncomfortable (obviously not since he didn't offer to check my D level...I had to ask for it).

    I'm also taking 500 mg QD of elemental magnesium (no preeclampsia for me) and (when I remember), 12.5 mg of Iodoral/week (I worry about taking it everyday due to potential for "heavy metal dumping" since I wasn't routinely taking it prior to pregnancy).

    I still take a pre-natal, but I worry more about not taking the other supplements more than i worry about missing a dose of the pre-natal.

    Thanks for all you continue to do in healthcare!

  • cardiology emr

    6/22/2010 1:08:33 AM |

    Thank you so much for the advice I will try having an supplement calcium, to preserve bone health and reduce blood pressure for my own good.

    mjd

  • Anonymous

    6/22/2010 2:09:39 AM |

    interesting. So does this mean that those areas where the calcium levels in drinking water are high : "hard" or "temporary hard", are areas where high vitamin D could work against residents trying to maintain healthy arteries?

    Trevor

  • Anonymous

    6/22/2010 5:02:05 AM |

    I'm 37 and have been taking 6,000 i.u. of vitamin D per day for the last several months.  I started urinating blood last night and have a CT scan in a few days to see the likely cause of it all - kidney stones.

    My Dad also had them. I think the vitamin D may have contributed in bringing this about.

    Coincidently, I'd started taking Tums (rich in calcium) every now and then for heartburn about a month or two ago.  

    Timely post doc!

  • Anne

    6/22/2010 7:17:17 AM |

    Dear Dr Davis,

    Please can you quote the links to the studies you mention in this blog. I have both osteoporosis and a heart valve defect (bicuspid aortic valve) and calcification is being deposited on the aortic valve. My levels of 25(OH)D range from 60 to 100 ng/ml. I have my bone profile tested every time I have my 25(OH)D tested and so far my serum calcium levels have been in the normal range but your post worries me considerably.

    Anne

  • moblogs

    6/22/2010 9:03:29 AM |

    I would agree that we probably need no dairy based calcium at all, since it is only necessary at birth through mother's milk.
    Even so, I do like my dairy products in moderation so that's all I take - no additional calcium supplements; and my blood calcium level and bone density has benefited from just D on top.

  • steve

    6/22/2010 3:31:52 PM |

    while current blood levels of D3 may appear to be inadequate, there is no science to demonstrate what the higher levels shuld be.  While a blood level of 60 coming from the sun may be wonderful, there are no studies, let alone ones of any duration, that show that supplementing with large doses of D3 to get to a 60 level do not pose any negative health consequences.  As we have learned with other vitamin supplementation, more is not always better; adverse consequences can arise, and there is not always a way to detect them such as blood calcium levels.  Caution should be the watchword.

  • Steve

    6/22/2010 3:50:56 PM |

    Dr Davis, what is your opinion of the supplement MSM? Does vitamin D have an effect on this also?

    Steve

  • Anonymous

    6/22/2010 4:24:11 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Magnesium competes with calcium absorption, and therefore is crucial to keeping calcium levels at bay.

  • Peter

    6/22/2010 8:11:05 PM |

    I noticed that a study this week found a correlation between very high vitamin D levels and increased risk of pancreatic cancer.
    http://media-newswire.com/release_1121308.html

  • nightrite

    6/22/2010 9:53:05 PM |

    I too had trouble with kidney stones untill I began supplementing with magnesium.  I take 600mg of various forms of mag and no longer have any problems with kidney stones.  I also take 6000 units of D3 and 180 of K2.  I have not had my serum calcium checked but don't eat too much dairy.

  • Anonymous

    6/22/2010 10:19:44 PM |

    What about high phytic acid foods like the raw almonds and cocoa advocated here?  Don't those contain as much or more calcium binding phytic acid as wheat?  I eat very low carb and no dairy products whatsoever.  My indulgences have been raw hazelnuts and cocoa -- now I'm wondering if this has been damaging in some way.  My understanding is that serum calcium represents only 1% of body's calcium and that an ionized calcium test is more accurate.  My doc drew blood today to re-check my vitamin d status but would not check mineral status.

  • Anonymous

    6/22/2010 10:26:31 PM |

    Different take on the calcium for me.  When I develop a faint, "fluttery", tachycardia (up to about 142 for a 63-year-old, and I feel absolutely horrible) I take about 500 mg of calcium citrate with about 1000 mg of vitamin C (for absorption of the calcium) and the heart beat gets stronger and the rate comes down.  Sometimes I have to repeat.  I found only one internet reference to this phenomenon below:

    http://www.ithyroid.com/ca_and_mg.htm

    I do not have access to health care as I am one of the working poor.  Perhaps you can comment, Dr. Davis.  Thanks, Catherine

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/22/2010 10:30:07 PM |

    Hi, Jessica--

    I think that you and your group are managing the calcium/vit D issue the right way.

    Unfortunately, some people are wrongly interpreting this to mean that vitamin D causes hypercalcemia. It simply means that calcium is unnecessary when D is restored.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/22/2010 10:31:32 PM |

    Jenny--

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Thankfully, your situation is the exception. Most people maintain normal calcium levels even while consuming dairy and other calcium-rich foods.

    Several responders here make the point about magnesium, which I agree with. Have you addressed magnesium? Magnesium deficiency is exceptionally common, since it has been taken out of most drinking water.

  • Anonymous

    6/23/2010 2:29:29 AM |

    I noticed that a study this week found a correlation between very high vitamin D levels and increased risk of pancreatic cancer.

    Cited are NOT very high levels! The claim is higher rates of pancreatic cancers with >100 nmol/ml - which translates into 40 ng/ml, a level considerably lower than the one recommended here by Dr. Davis (~60-70 ng/ml if I remember correctly). Another claim is NO difference in rates of several other cancers across a large range of 25(OH)D concentrations.

  • LeonRover

    6/23/2010 9:11:25 AM |

    Peter's comment above led me to read the newswire report referred to.

    This study was trying to establish any epidemiological association of increased levels of Vit D with reduced incidences of various cancers. No such associations were observed. Rather in the case of pancreatic cancer only, it was observed that when the  level of Vitamin D was GREATER than 100 nmol per litre, there was higher incidence of this disease. Another way of looking at this observation is that at levels below 100 nmol per litre there was no association of pancreatic cancer with levels of Vit D LOWER than 100 nmol per litre.

    As far as cancers are concerned there is no point in considering Vit D status as long as it below 100 nmol per litre.

  • Mike

    6/23/2010 10:07:09 PM |

    This is timely. I just had blood work done recently and my Dr.'s staff ordered the wrong test. Instead of measuring D3, they measured D2 calcitriol. I don't know what to make of the result: 120.8 pg/mL on a scale of 10.0-75.0. It's extremely high.  The last time I had my vitamin D3 tested, it was 59.2 ng/mL on a scale of 32-100.
    FWIW, I follow a low carbohydrate Paleo diet and consume very little dairy. I do take a multivitamin 3-5 days per week, but it only provides 300 mg of calcium (along with 210 mg of magnesium). I also take 500 mg of magnesium citrate every evening.
    I'd sure like to know what to make of this.

  • TedHutchinson

    6/24/2010 7:54:39 AM |

    @ LeonRover
    The information on pancreatic cancer & vitamin D status comes from Finland

    The further from the equator the greater the swing from high to low status. To have a good shower requires tight regulation of both hot and cold water supplies and a reserve store of both hot and cold supply so neither ever runs out.

    Vieth explains in this paper.
    How to Optimize Vitamin D Supplementation to Prevent Cancer

    In the same way fluctuating concentrations of 25(OH)D may also be a problem, Regions at high latitude or with low environmental
    ultraviolet light can be associated with the greater risks reported for prostate and pancreatic cancers. At temperate latitudes, higher summertime 25(OH)D levels are followed by sharper declines in 25(OH)D, causing inappropriately low 1-hydroxylase and high 24-hydroxylase, resulting in tissue 1,25(OH)2D below its ideal set-point.

    The answer is to keep levels BOTH HIGH and STABLE.
    Humans only build a stored reserve of D3 in tissue above 40ng/ml = 100nmol/l. Only around 60ng/ml are there sufficient D3 reserves for lactating mothers to pass to babies in breast milk. At latitude 32 it takes modern women 6400iu/daily/D3 to provide naturally replete vitamin D breast milk.

  • Mike

    6/24/2010 8:30:44 PM |

    Thanks Ted. That clarifies the role of calcitriol, but I am still wondering why my level measured so high, if even transiently.

  • Anonymous

    6/24/2010 8:37:38 PM |

    I'm anonymous from above who talked about kidney stones and blood in my urine.

    I had the CT scan done yesterday. I have stones, one of them a whopping 1.4 cm.  

    Be careful people.

  • Catherine

    6/25/2010 10:07:09 PM |

    (I am a different Catherine than the one above with tachycardia)

    For years because I had osteopenia, I was advised to take loads of calcium.  Later they told us to add vitamin D with it.  I am now FULL of calcium deposits all over my body.

    A year ago, Dr. Davis advised me to try magnesium for a bad arrhythmia problem, and it not only quickly cured my arrhythmia, insomnia, and RLS, but I have much less grinding sounds and arthritis pain. I was the poster girl for magnesium deficiency and no one except Dr. Davis even mentioned trying it.

    I think along with K2, magnesium is of upmost importance to balance the D and calcium. I only take 500 mg a day now since I don't consume dairy, but after this article, I may totally stop supplementing any calcium and let the K2 and magnesium perhaps reduce some of the deposits..

  • Anonymous

    6/27/2010 12:24:40 AM |

    @Mike -- I have the same issue/question.  My 25 OH was 62 but the 125 test was sky high.  My serium calcium was normal.  I wonder if Holick's new book gives detailed info on how to interpret lab tests.  His first book just said that the correcxt test is the 25 OH but didn't explain if there is any danger is a sky high 125.

  • Crystal

    7/4/2010 6:44:07 AM |

    This is an awesome post. Great post. Thanks for sharing this. Looking forward to read more from you.
    Green Tea

  • josephmoss

    7/29/2010 5:35:01 AM |

    Vitamin D3:

    NOW Vitamin D softgels supply this key vitamin in a highly-absorbable liquid softgel form. Vitamin D is normally obtained from the diet or produced by the skin from the ultraviolet energy of the sun. However, it is not abundant in food. As more people avoid sun exposure, Vitamin D supplementation becomes even more necessary to ensure that your body receives an adequate supply. Vitamin D3 on discount at NutroVita.com.

    For more details please visit:
    http://www.nutrovita.com/32760/now-foods/vitamin-d-3-2-000-iu.htm

  • TedHutchinson

    7/29/2010 9:09:26 AM |

    UK readers need to be aware that estimated shipping cost to UK from Nutrovita = $26.50
    whereas
    Item cost IHERB= $4.96 + International Airmail = $4.00
    If you haven't used IHERB before code WAB666 saves $5.
    Remember UK customs apply VAT on orders £18 and above + UK PO charge £8 handling fee so I make orders up to around £17.50 before shipping to avoid that happening.
    To use GOOGLE toolbar to convert currency enter
    4.96 USD in GBP

  • Anonymous

    12/27/2010 7:27:18 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
    Since increasing my Vitamin D, Magesium and Melatonin I suddenly have very brittle, splitting fingernails.  Any idea which if any of these caused this?  Any suggestions?
    Thanks

    Love your blog!!!!!

  • Jack

    3/4/2011 4:13:40 PM |

    Chances are the calcium supplement you are taking now is a rock source of calcium. The label will say "calcium carbonate", which is nothing more than limestone. AlgaeCal Plus contains an organic, plant-sourced calcium form derived from a unique South American marine algae called Algas Calcareasâ„¢.

  • Emr reviews

    4/2/2011 12:01:36 AM |

    think one of the greatest hurdles is overcoming misconceptions in the minds of regulators, doctors and patients alike. I just returned from a trip to Germany and colleagues there are amused about America's 3rd World-like medical records situation

  • Anonymous

    4/2/2011 8:43:46 PM |

    I have celiac disease and osteopenia in my spine and no bone loss in my hips. I have a strong family history of osteoporosis as well.

    Because my calcium intake is less than or equal to 500 mg I take:

    600 mg calcium citrate at two seperate meals

    1200 IU's D3

    500 mg magnesium citrate

    I track using fitday. I'm grain, legume, dairy, sugar and processed food free and follow a paleo type dietary plan.

    Is this okay?

  • Anonymous

    4/2/2011 11:04:23 PM |

    I meant:

    600 mg calcium citrate in total but dosage is split between two seperate meals.

  • Dave

    5/2/2011 11:25:59 PM |

    I've seen research that shows the body produces more MGP and other calcium handling proteins with higher doses of Vitamin D.  You would expect this effect as a evolutionary collaboration with Vitamin D activity.  Higher doses of Vitamin K2 are needed to carboxylate these proteins and make them active.  These proteins are active in various places in the body like the arteries and the kidneys.  I have a theory that taking Vitamin K2 helps prevent kidney stones and maybe gallbladder stones of the calcium type.

    Uncarboxylated MGP is actually worse than the fully carboxylated MGP.  Guinea pigs are given cholesterol and high levels of Vitamin D in research to give them artery disease by exceeding their Vitamin K2 levels thus creating low carboxylation levels.

    More Vitamin K2 may well be good for those kidney stones.

  • Dave

    5/3/2011 12:14:43 AM |

    There is recent and startling Dutch research to the point that Vitamin K2 is specifically used to carboxylate calcium handling proteins that remove calcium from the arteries and promote heart health.  If you are taking extra Vitamin D, the body also generates more of these calcium handling proteins so the need for Vitamin K2 also increases.

    I had good experience over six months with taking Vitamin K2 and found my running speed increased by 8% and the itching or other mild, variable sensations in my chest have decreased 98%.  I suspect this is connected to reduction of calcification.  I noticed a reduction in my symptoms after six weeks.

    My Vitamin K2 has:
      1300 mcg Vitamin K2, Mk-4
       100 mcg Vitamin K2, MK-7
      1000 mcg Vitamin K (the ordinary stuff)

  • Reikime

    9/22/2011 2:02:34 AM |

    Reading all these posts I used to think of vitamin D and magnesium and K2 the same a most posters. Intuitively never took calcium, was up to 6000 mg of D3/ day to achieve a level of 43- up from 26.

    That said, my serum calcium has trended upward to 10.3. I am now having a few blood tests to check  for hyperparathyroidism!  The foremost parathyroid doc in the USA is Dr. James Norman from Tampa, and his website is very informative and puts a different spin on what I thought I knew of these matters. Parathyroids is ALL he and his 2 colleagues do all day every day. Please give this a look to be fully informed on the matter of Vitamin D supplementation.       www.parathyroid.com
    I have no connection, but if I find out I have an adenoma on one of my parathyroids, this is where I will have it removed!
    Jeanne ( RN,BSN)

  • Reikime

    9/22/2011 2:05:44 AM |

    Oops,  meant to add I have also supplemented with 400-800mg of magnesium and 1 Life Extension K2 in addition to the Vitamin D for several years.

    Reikime

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