Lipoprotein testing

This is an update of a post I made about a year ago. However, I'm reposting it since the question comes up so often.


How can I get my lipoproteins tested?
This question came up on our recent online chat session and comes up frequently phone calls and e-mails.

If lipoprotein testing is the best way to uncover hidden causes of coronary heart disease, but your doctor is unable, unknowledgeable, or unwilling to help you, then what can you do?

There are several options:

1) Get the names of physicians who will obtain and interpret the test for you. That’s the best way. However, it is also the most difficult. Lipoprotein testing, despite over a decade of considerable scientific exploration and validation in thousands of research publications, still remains a sophisticated tool that only specialists in lipids will use. But this provides you with the best information on you’re your lipoproteins mean.
2) If you don’t have a doctor who can provide lipoprotein testing and interpretation, go to the websites for the three labs that actually perform the lipoprotein tests: www.liposcience.com (NMR); www.berkeleyheartlab.com (electropheresis or GGE); www.atherotech.com (ultracentrifugation). None of them will provide you with the names of actual physicians. They can provide you with the name of a local representative who will know (should know) which doctors in your area are well-acquainted with their technology. I prefer this route to just having a representative identify a laboratory in your area where the blood sample can be drawn, because you will still need a physician to interpret the results¾this is crucial. The test is of no use to you unless someone interprets it intelligently and understands the range of treatment possibilities available. Don’t be persuaded by your doctor if he/she agrees to have the blood drawn but has never seen the test before. This will be a waste of your time. That’s like hoping the kid next door can fix your car just because he says he fixed his Mom’s car once. Interpretation of lipoproteins takes time, education, and experience.

3) Seek out a lipidologist. Lipidologists are the new breed of physician who has sought out additional training and certification in lipid and lipoprotein disorders. Sometimes they’re listed in the yellow pages, or you can search online in your area. One drawback: Most lipidologists have been heavily brainwashed by the statin industry and tend to be heavy drug users.

4) Contact us. I frankly don’t like doing this because I feel that I can only provide limited information through this method and, frankly, it is very time consuming. I provide a written discussion of the implications and choices for treatment with the caveat to discuss them with your doctor, since I can’t provide medical advice without a formal medical relationship. We also charge $75 for the interpretation. But it’s better than nothing.

5) Make do with basic testing. Basic lipids along with a lipoprotein(a), C-reactive protein, fibrinogen, and homocysteine would provide a reasonable facsimile of lipoprotein testing. You’ll still lack small LDL and postprandial (after-eating) information, but you can still do reasonably well if you try to achieve the Track Your Plaque targets of 60-60-60. It’s sometimes a necessary compromise.

Our discussions on the Track Your Plaque Forum have impressed me with the difficulty many people encounter in getting lipoproteins drawn and interpreted. Some of our Members have been very resourceful identifying blood draw laboratories around the country, such as Lab Safe, that will at least provide the blood draw service.

I wish it was easier and we are working on some ideas to facilitate this nationwide. It will take time.

In 20 years, this will be a lot easier when doctors more commonly use lipoprotein testing. But for now, you can still obtain reasonably good results choosing one of the above alternatives.

Is it exercise or diet?

Wayne, a 61-year old retired school superintendent, had been an exercise fanatic all his adult life. If not running long distances and occasional marathons, he'd bike up to 70 miles a day. He did this year-round. In cold weather, he set his bicycle up on an indoor device and also ran on a treadmill and added weight training.

That's why it was kind of surprising that he sported a large belly. At 5 ft 8 inch and 190 lbs, that put his Body Mass Index (BMI) also high at 28.8 (desirable <25). You'd think that vigorous, almost extreme, exercise like this would guarantee a slender build.

Wayne also had lipoproteins to match: triglycerides 205 mg/dl, LDL 176 mg/dl but LDL particle number much higher at 2403 nmol/l (an effective LDL of 240 mg/dl); 75% of LDL particles were small.

I asked Wayne about his diet. "I eat healthy. Cheerios for breakfast usually. Some days I'll skip breakfast. Lunch is almost always a sandwich: tuna, turkey, something like that on whole wheat bread or a whole wheat bagel. Chips, too, but I guess that's not too healthy. Dinners vary and we eat pretty healthy. Almost never pizza or junk like that."

"Pasta?" I asked.

"Oh. sure. Two or three tiems a week. Always whole wheat. With a salad."

Wayne was well aware of the conventional advice for whole grains and, indeed, had been trying to increase his intake, particularly since his basic cholesterol numbers had been high in past. To his surprise, the more he tried at diet, the more LDL seemed to go up, as did triglycerides.

I see this situation every day: The obsession with processed carbohydrate foods, worsened by the message perpetuated by the American Heart Association, the USDA Food Pyramid, Kraft, Kelloggs, Post, etc. Eat more fiber, eat whole grains.

NY Times columnist, Jane Brody, chronicles her (embarassing) mis-adventure following the same mis-guided advice in Cutting Cholesterol, an Uphill Battle.

According to the USDA Food Pyramid, Wayne is not getting enough grains and whole grains, particularly since he is highly physically active. Consistent with the message given by the food industry: "Eat more!"

The food industry-supported Whole Grain Council advises:

Whole Grains at Every Meal
The US Dietary Guidelines recommend meeting the daily requirement by eating three "ounce-equivalents" of breads, rolls, cereals or other grain foods made with 100% whole grains. A slice of bread or a serving of breakfast cereal usually weighs about an ounce.

Want an easier way to think about it? Just look at your plate at each meal, and make sure you've included some source of whole grains. That's why our slogan is "Whole Grains at Every Meal."



By this scheme, if you are overweight, it's because you lack fiber and you're too inactive. "Get up and go!" It's not the diet, they say, it's you!

See through this for what it is: Nonsense. Wayne was overweight, packing 20 extra pounds in his abdomen from his over-dependence on processsed carbohydrates--"whole grains"--not from inactivity.

Instant heart disease reversal


What if reversal of heart disease--regression of coronary atherosclerotic plaque--were achievable instantly? Just add water and--voila!!

To my knowledge, it is not--yet. But I sometimes play with this idea in my head. I could imagine that such a program would consist of a few essential elements:

--A fast or semi-fast, or at least a very spare diet, over a period like 10 days to promote net catabolism. It is also supremely anti-inflammatory to restrict calories.

--High-dose vitamin D, e.g., 20,000 units per day of D3 to fully replenish depleted stores and achieve all the metabolism-correcting effects of D3 restoration.

--EPA + DHA at a higher than usual dose with frequent throughout-the-day dosing to encourage replacement of cellular lipid constituents with the more stable omega-3 fraction of fatty acids.

Beyond this, I'm uncertain. What role l-arginine, statins, niacin . . . conjugated linoleic acid? ApoA1 Milano infusions?

This is simply whimsical at this point. I don't know if such an approach would work. But if it did, you might imagine that it would offer an opportunity--for the properly motivated--as an alternative treatment for angina, advanced coronary disease, a means to pull someone back from the brink.

With the insights gained from our slow-but-powerful Track Your Plaque approach, perhaps we will also gain insights into how to accelerate such a process of reversal so that it is achievable in days, rather than months or years.

The small LDL epidemic

Ten years ago, small LDL was fairly common, affecting approximately 50% of the patients I'd see. For instance, an LDL particle number of 1800 nmol/l would be 40-50% small LDL in about half the people.

But in the last few years, I've witnessed an explosion in the proportion of people with small LDL, which now exceeds 80-90% of people. The people who show small LDL also show more severe patterns. 80-90% small LDL is not uncommon.

Why the surge in the small LDL pattern? Two reasons: 1) The extraordinary surge in excess weight and obesity, both of which favor formation of small LDL particles, and 2) over-reliance on processed carbohydrates, especially wheat-based convenience foods.

The constant media din that parrots such nonsense as the report on CNN Health website, Healthful Breakfast Tips to Keep You Fueled All Day, helps perpetuate this misguided advice. The dietitian they quote states:

"If you don't like what you're eating, you won't stick with it. If your choices aren't the most nutritious, small tweaks can make them more healthful. For example, if you have a sweet tooth in the morning, try a piece of nutty whole-grain bread spread with a tablespoon each of almond butter (it's slightly sweeter than peanut butter) and fruit preserves instead of eating foods that offer sweetness but little nutritional benefit, like doughnuts or muffins. If you enjoy egg dishes but don't have time to prepare your favorite before work, try microwaving an egg while toasting two slices whole wheat or rye (whole-grain) bread. Add a slice of low-fat cheese for a healthful breakfast sandwich that's ready in minutes. And don't overlook leftovers. If you feel like cold pizza (which contains antioxidant-filled tomato sauce, calcium-rich cheese, and lots of veggies), have it. It's a good breakfast that's better than no breakfast at all."

It sure sounds healthy, but it's same worn advice that has resulted in a nation drowning in obesity. The food choices advocated by this dietitian keep us fat. It also perpetuates this epidemic of small LDL particles.

If you have small LDL and its good friend, low HDL, it's time for elimination of wheat products, not some politically-correct silliness about increasing fiber by eating whole grains. Whole grains create small LDL! Or, I should say, what passes as whole grains on the supermarket shelves.

For some helpful commentary on this issue, see Fanatic Cook's latest post, Playing with Grains.

Mini-dose CTA?

I caught this little news report in the online edition of Canyon News , an LA paper, under the title Cedars-Sinai Develops Test to Prevent Heart Attacks .

They report that Dr. Daniel S. Berman M.D., chief of Cardiac Imaging and Nuclear Cardiology at Cedars-Sinai, reports that a new method of performing CT coronary angiography, "mini-dose CTA," has been developed that allows both coronary calcium scoring as well as CT coronary angiography (CTA) at a dose as low as 10% of standard dose. No technical details were provided.

Now, that may be worth knowing more about. If this is true, then CTA may indeed be useful as a "screening" procedure. However, we are going to need to know more: What devices are capable of doing this, what settings on the devices were used, etc. It does indeed come from a reputable source in Dr. Dan Berman, who is well known in nuclear cardiology circles.

We will try and dig for info. Stay tuned.

Wheat-free and weight loss

With a heart scan score of 1222, Leslie could be in deep trouble in short order.

At 64 years old, Leslie had gained nearly 40 lbs since she'd given up a lot of her activities caring for a husband who'd developed psychological difficulties and stopped contributing to the household duties. A tall woman at 5 ft 9 inches, she held her 202 lbs well, but her lipoprotein patterns were a disaster:

--LDL particle number 2482 nmol/l--an equivalent LDL cholesterol of 248 mg/dl (drop the last digit)
--HDL 38 mg/dl
--Triglycerides 241 mg/dl
--90% of LDL particles were small
--Lipoprotein(a) 240 nmol/l

Blood sugar was in the pre-diabetic range at 112 mg/dl, C-reactive protein was high at 3.0 mg/l, blood pressure was somewhat high at 140/84.

Now, with the exception of lipoprotein(a), these patterns are exquisitely weight-sensitive. A reduction in weight would yield effects superior to any medication I could give her.

Processed wheat products were a big problem for Leslie: whole wheat bread, pretzels for snacks, whole wheat pasta. Yes, they sound healthy, even endorsed by the American Heart Association, often bearing "heart healthy" labels on the packages. Don't you believe it.

In particular, Leslie had the number one cause for heart disease in America: small LDL particles, a pattern that is magnified 30-70% by wheat products. Endorsed by the Heart Association? (As I often tell people, if you want heart disease, follow the diet advocated by the American Heart Association.)

Leslie was skeptical, worried that she would be hungry all the time and would have virtually nothing left to eat. Instead, when she returned to the office three months later, she reported that eating was easy, finding healthy foods not containing wheat was easier than she thought, she felt great, finding more energy than she'd had in years.

She'd also shed 30 lbs.

Leslie's lipoprotein patterns also reflected the weight loss. She achieved her 60:60:60 Track Your Plaque lipid targets, small LDL shrunk dramatically, blood sugar and blood pressure were back in normal ranges.

I see results like Leslie's several times every week. For those of us with patterns like Leslie's, or just obesity that accumulates in the abdomen, going wheat-free is among the most powerful single strategies I know of.

If you need convincing, try an experiment. Eliminate--not reduce, but eliminate wheat products from your diet, whether or not the fancy label on the package says it's healthy, high in fiber, a "healthy low-fat snack", etc. This means no bread, pasta, crackers, cookies, breads, chips, pancakes, waffles, breading on chicken, rolls, bagels, cakes, breakfast cereal. I find elimination of wheat easier than just cutting back. I believe this is because wheat is powerfully addictive. It's very similar to telling an alcoholic that a drink now and then is okay--it just doesn't work. They need to be alcohol-free. Most of us need to be wheat-free, not just cut back.

You won't be hungry if you replace the lost calories with plenty of raw almonds, walnuts, pecans, sunflower and pumpkin seeds; more liberal use of healthy olive oil, canola oil and flaxseed oil; adding ground flaxseed and oat bran to yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.; and more lean proteins like lean beef, chicken, turkey, fish, and eggs.

The majority of people who go wheat-free lose weight, sometimes dramatically. Most people also feel better: more energy, more alert, better sleep, less mood swings. Time and again, people who try this will tell me that the daytime grogginess they've suffered and lived with for years, and would treat with loads of caffeine, is suddenly gone. They cruise through their day with extra energy.

Even without weight loss, going wheat-free usually raises HDL, reduces the dreaded small LDL dramtically. It also reduces triglycerides, blood sugar, C-reactive protein, blood pressure. Blood sugar control in diabetics is far easier, with less fluctuations and sharp rises in blood sugar.

Success at this also yields great advantage for your heart scan score control and reversal efforts.

Collective wisdom


As public consciousness and knowledge about health issues grows, thanks to the internet and other media, I predict that:

1) Hospitals will recede into a role of acute and catastrophic care ONLY, dropping the charade of providing health, which they do NOT.

2) Doctors and other health professionals will begin to see themselves as providers of acute and catastrophic care, also. They will stop providing day to day care, such as treating high blood pressure, cholesterol, breast exams, and other preventive maintenance.

3) Instead, preventive care will be self-provided. The public will have acquired sufficient savvy and know-how to manage issues like blood pressure themselves. They will need the assistance of helpful information resources, web-based for the most part. Much preventive care can, in fact, be algorithm-driven, just like following a simple recipe.

All the worries about runaway health care costs will be much reduced, since excessive testing driven by liability worries will disappear, repeated office visits for day-to-day issues will go away. Yes, you will need a doctor and hospital for a broken leg, car accident, unexpected cancer, or non-compliance or neglect of prevention.

But osteoporosis, high blood pressure, nutrition, weight loss, hormone management, cholesterol issues, minor complaints will all be managed by people themselves with the assistance of web-based knowledge systems.

I already sense this sort of phenomeonon developing, though in its infancy, in venues like the Track Your Plaque Forum and other health portals, places where the information being discussed exceeds the quality of information you can obtain from your doctor. Over and over again, for instance, the sophistication and knowledge demonstrated by our Track Your Plaque Forum discussions shows that the public is capable of far more understanding of health issues than many previously believed. Most of our members could carry on a credible conversation with trained lipid experts. The knowledge base of our members exceeds that of 98% of most of my colleagues when it comes to heart scans, lipoproteins, and nutrition.

I am in awe of Wikipedia, the popular online encyclopedia. Five 20- and 30-somethings have created a knowledge base that has now eclipsed Encyclopedia Britannica in size and scope, with equivalent accuracy, and relatively little cost. I'd like to see the same phenomenon occur in health care information, helping to usurp the current paternalistic "I'll tell you what to do" model.

Success--Slow but sure

John is a gentleman.

At age 76, he continues to teach at a local college. He's a delight to talk to, having written several scholarly books on religious topics. He's a fountain of knowledge on religious history and the roots of faith.

John is one of those incurably optimistic people, always greeting me with a smile and a warm handshake. I can't help but linger for a hour or so to talk with John, unfortunately disrupting my office schedule miserably.

John is another Track Your Plaque success story. Though he didn't set any records in reduction of his heart scan score, he did it simply by adhering to the program over a period of two years, succeeding slowly but surely.

John's first heart scan score: 1190, a score that carries as much as a 25% annual risk for heart attack. Among the list of causes was an LDL cholesterol in the 170 mg/dl range, along with an LDL particle number that verified the accuracy of LDL.

Among John's suggested treatments was a statin drug, since I was not confident he could reduce LDL with diet and nutritional modifications sufficiently to safely reduce both LDL and his risk for heart attack. But he proved terribly intolerant to any dose of any statin, with incapacitating and strange side-effects, like head-to-toe itching, abdominal cramps and diarrhea. It was clear: John needed to do the program without benefit of a statin drug.

I therefore asked John to maximize all efforts that reduce LDL, 70% of which were small LDL paricles despite his very slender build. He used oat bran and ground flaxseed daily, raw nuts, a soy protein smoothie every morning, and eliminated wheat and other high-glycemic index foods (including the Oreos he loved to snack on). Because the mis-adventures with statin drugs wasted nearly a year, I asked John to undergo another heart scan. Score 2: 1383, a 16% increase.

I asked John to keep on going. Thankfully, he did manage to tolerate fish oil, niacin (though it required over a year just to get to a 1000 mg per day dose), and vitamin D. With all these efforts, he did reduce LDL to the 80-90 mg/dl range. Of course, John's unflagging optimism was crucial. He did express his occasional anxiety over his heart scan score, but dealt with it in a logical, philosophical way. He understood that there was no role for prophylactic stents or bypass, and he accepted that much of his program rested on his ability to adhere to the strategies we advised.

Another year later, a 3rd heart scan: 1210, a 12% reduction.

I'm very proud of John and his success. When you think about it, he succeeded in conquering heart disease with some very simple tools, minus statin drugs. It can be done, but requires consistency and patience--and an optimistic outlook.

Vitamin D and octagenarians

Roger practically bounced in his chair vibrating with energy.

"It must be the vitamin D! I haven't felt like this in years. I can work around the yard all day and still have energy left over."

At age 84, Roger started out with pretty good health, despite a prosthetic valve and bypass surgery 5 years earlier. He looked 74, perhaps younger.

I've seen this effect now in about 20 octagenarians. A Track Your Plaque Member mentioned this same effect in his father-in-law in a discussion in our Forum. Most are taking around 6000-8000 units per day (gelcap, of course). The average dose of vitamin D tends to be higher in this age group, since by age 80, you've essentially lost the capacity to convert 7-hydrocholesterol to active vitamin D3 in the skin. Most octagenarians start with 25-OH-vitamin D3 levels of 10 ng/ml or less--profound deficiency.

I believe the effect is real, having now witnessed it multiple times. Unfortunately, my observations are too informal to qualify as a study. (I wouldn't even know how to quantify this. I suppose some sort of muscle and coordination testing might yield quantifiable measures.) However, there are some data emerging that show less fractures, falls, improved coordination, and perhaps improved memory and mentation with vitamin D supplementation, though doses often used in studies tend to be lower than what we are using in practice.

I haven't been so excited about the effects of a nutritional supplement in a long time. Vitamin D continues to yield surprises every day in its array of positive and powerful effects.

Could we say that vitamin D restores youthfulness?
Fasting with green tea

Fasting with green tea

I've been playing around with brief (18-24 hour) fasts with the use of green tea. Of the several variations on fasting, such as juice "fasts,"  I've been most impressed with the green tea experience.

While the weight loss effects of daily green tea consumption are modest, there seems to be a specific satiety effect that has now been demonstrated in multiple studies, such as this and this. In other words, green tea, through an uncertain mechanism, reduces hunger. The effect is not just due to volume, since the effect cannot be reproduced with hot water alone.

I therefore wondered whether green tea might be a useful beverage to consume during a fast, as it might take the "edge" off of hunger. While hunger during a fast in the wheat-free is far less than wheat-consuming humans, there is indeed an occasional twinge of hunger felt.

So I tried it, brewing a fresh 6-8 oz cup evert two hours or so. I brewed a pot in the morning while at home, followed by brewing single cups using my tea infuser at the office. Whenever I began to experience a hunger pang, I brewed another cup and sipped it. I was pleasantly surprised that hunger was considerably reduced. I sailed through my last 18 hours, for instance, effortlessly. The process was actually quite pleasant.

I brew loose Chinese bancha, sencha, and chunmee teas and Japanese gyokuro tea. Gyokuro is my favorite, but also the most expensive. Bancha is more affordable and I've used that most frequently.

If anyone else gives this a try, please report back your experience.

Comments (34) -

  • Phyllis

    6/1/2011 12:04:50 AM |

    I would like to know if this works with iced green tea as well. I used a method of one meal per day to loose 50+ pounds. I found it pretty easy, all in all, but have regained about 20 now and need to get back on it. I think I will give iced green tea a try! (I'm not crazy about hot green tea, but like it fine iced)

  • preserve

    6/1/2011 12:09:56 AM |

    I use tea as a method of extending eating intervals.  It works well.  I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the "upper" effect.  Ie.  uppers reduce appetite as a result of blocked sensory.

    I find fasting and sensory blocking to be counter-productive.

  • Geoffrey Levens, L.Ac.

    6/1/2011 12:33:19 AM |

    May be other effects but caffeine and it's cousin theobromine in the tea are pretty reliable appetite suppressants.  But isn't getting jacked up (even if only a little) a bit counter productive to some of the potential benefits of fasting?  The idea is to rest your physiology while catabolism is in full swing. Activating the sympathetic nervous system so you don't have to experience the sensations you don't like during the early stages of fasting does not seem to me to really promote that.

  • fredt

    6/1/2011 1:09:29 AM |

    Yes, green tea reduces my hunger; I just use Tetley in the bag. Some of the greens do not have a satiating effect on me, nor do any of the black teas. Coffee increases hunger for me. Bullion cubes or OXO packets also help. I make a 1.5 l thermos, and suck on that until its done. Some days 3 or 4 of them in a day. I think I have more hunger than most people, but I am down 55 kgs, 2 to 4 years ago and have been down for 2 years.

    The other thing that helps me is chew-able Vitamin C, a couple of 500s any time I feel hungry. It seems to raise BG, possible due to BG sparing, as it is required for far oxidation, or inside cell far transport, depending on who is explaining. Two 500's raise my BG form 4.0 to 5.3 -- OK US 72 to 95.
    I am off wheat mostly; occasionally Clam chowder, sausages, and a few crackers for low BG issues. One cracker raises BG 1.5 at 15 mins.

    Thanks for the one hour BG idea. Some of my higher protein meals were a problem, like 280 Calories of canned salmon ran my BG to 9.0 (OK 162). And my doctor says I an not diabetic but my a.m. BG sure is erratic, 4.0 to 6.2 this week.

  • Sharon

    6/1/2011 2:22:06 AM |

    Hey Phyllis, I'm with you. I have been drinking 4 cups green tea made with tea bags and then chilled and have noticed that I'm not as hungry but didn't really connect it with the tea itself. I need to lose 50 lbs and I like the idea of one meal a day.

  • Scott P.

    6/1/2011 2:24:11 AM |

    Green tea, or any tea actually, makes me a little ill on an empty stomach.  Not sure but believe it is the tannins.  I also was consuming a lot of green/white tea while fasting and I just felt really acidic and my face got red splotches, which seems to coincide with acidity.  I know the net result is supposed to be alkaline for green/white tea but that has not been my experience.  Recently, I've been adding a tablespoon of apple cider vinager to a cup of warm water.  Went a fairly easy 18 hours today but did break down and had four or five macadamia nuts around 12 hours in.

  • MAS

    6/1/2011 2:44:37 AM |

    I absolutely drink green and lightly oxidized oolongs during my fasts.   It curbs the hunger and provides focus.  Been doing it for 2.5 years.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/1/2011 2:49:43 AM |

    After millennia of human starvation, to think that we still have tons to learn about fasting used for health purposes!

    Phyllis--While I've not tried it personally, nor do I know of any formal data, I expect that iced green tea--provided it is real brewed green tea, and not the bottled variety--should work every bit as well.

  • Dianne - TPSW

    6/1/2011 1:28:40 PM |

    I am unable to drink green tea at all on an empty stomach, I will absolutely throw up if I do.  I end up with pullovertothesideoftheroadI'mgoingtopukeyesseriously!".   I actually threw up all over my suit once which was really special.  Green tea with food often makes me queasy as well.  I am allergic to oak so I think there may be a tannin connection as some heavy oak wines are problematic for me.

  • Anne

    6/1/2011 4:46:28 PM |

    I am making today a fast day. I have been drinking a mix of green and white tea but it is decaffeinated.  How often should one fast?

  • Jonathan Carey

    6/1/2011 5:58:30 PM |

    For those who get dizzy on green tea, try puerh tea.  It is a fermented green tea that is also much lower in caffeine and it taste much better than green.  It is the equivalent of drinking an aged red wine over 2 buck chuck.

  • JLL

    6/2/2011 11:27:49 AM |

    This question has been around for quite some time,  but no one seems to know the answer for certain.

    Theoretically at least, consuming antioxidants during fasting could be detrimental to autophagy (removing "junk" cells), since antioxidants might suppress the stress response from fasting. This is why some studies show antioxidants and exercise are a bad combination -- you *want* some stress to happen so that the body can adapt to it.

    Then again, there is the theory that small amounts of antioxidants actually work through the same mechanism as fasting and exercise -- hormesis. In which case fasting + antioxidants might complement each other. But that's just speculation.

    What we do know from studies is that green tea seems to increase weight loss, for example when combined with calorie restriction (and thus should apply to fasting):

    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/04/green-tea-increases-weight-loss-during.html

    And when combined with exercise:

    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/03/green-tea-extract-increases-insulin.html
    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/02/green-tea-extract-enhances-abdominal.html

    And when combined with capsaicin (from chilli pepper), it reduces the feeling of hunger and thus calorie intake:

    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/04/green-tea-and-capsaicin-reduce-hunger.html

    So all in all, whatever the mechanism is, if you're fasting just for the sake of losing weight, I'd say green tea is a pretty good bet.

    - JLL

  • Paul Lee

    6/2/2011 12:21:31 PM |

    Would depend on the length of fasts, but the East Stop East method advocates two fasts per week.  My fasts are now usually shorter, as they kind of trained me to stop grazing. I usually don't bother with breakfast now. The more you eat, the more you want to eat sometimes.

  • nina

    6/2/2011 8:10:00 PM |

    I'm subscribed to your blog, but since  you changed format the posts haven't been showing up in my mail box.  I tried to re-subscribe, but am told I'm already subscribed.  How do I get back in the loop?

    Nina

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/3/2011 1:31:00 AM |

    Anyone not receiving email versions of this blog:

    I wonder if the shift over to the new platform caused a few glitches. My blog IT help is out of commission temporarily. Therefore, please sign up again at the top.

    Sorry about that.

  • Dr. Mary Taylor, PT, DPT

    6/3/2011 6:41:41 PM |

    Yes, I completely agree with you! I went 90% wheat and sugar free from November 2010 to February 2011 and lost a whopping 2 pounds. It wasn't until I went to 95% or more wheat free that I was able to start losing weight. I am now 100% wheat free and I have lost 36.2 pounds in 15 weeks. I have also been able to significantly cut my caloric intake to 500-700 calories per day (sometimes less than 500) using iced jasmine green tea. I truly believe that a diet that is lower in calories is better for health. I typically drink 6-8 glasses a day and I really enjoy it. It helps immensely with any hunger I may have and completely satisfies my sense to eat. I use any of the varieties available in tea bag (Numi, Two Leaves and a Bud, Stash, and Mighty Leaf are my favorites). I typically choose whatever's on sale. I also drink a full glass every morning prior to eating and that also seems to stimulate my colon which is a bonus as well when consuming such low caloric counts.

    On a cholesterol and BG level, my family genetics are something that should be studied. While I started my diet at 234.8# on 2/15/2011 (I'm 5'3" and 47 y/o female) my total cholesterol was 167 and my HDL was 54. My 102 y/o grandmother however, has a total cholesterol of 155 and an HDL of 115! My 76 y/o mother also has the same great results but her HDL is "only" 109. Neither of them are on any medication for cholesterol and both of them eat a diet fully based on things we berate on this blog (cookies, bread, ice cream, fried foods, etc). Neither are overweight either. I'm eager to see what my levels become when I reach my goal weight. Maybe I can surpass that HDL of 115!

  • nina

    6/3/2011 9:39:20 PM |

    I tried that before I posted and it tells me I'm already subscribed.

    Nina

  • Ron Saunders

    6/5/2011 8:06:56 AM |

    About 15 years ago I went on a fast and had only water.  The fast lasted for 10 days.  No green tea.  Just water.  After 18 hours, I completely lost any hunger.  Meanwhile I continued to cook meals for my family.  I also continued to go to work every day.

    The experience seemed wonderful.  I had been suffering badly from asthma, and all symptoms disappeared!  I could have kept going forever without eating.  However, after 10 days I started to have problems with urination.  I began excreting small, hard pellets.

    I went to the doctor, and he exploded.  "You bloody fool!" he said.  I had altered the ketone content of my blood.

    So I started eating again.  My first meal was brown rice (no salt).  It was the most beautiful meal I ever had.  Gradually I returned to normal eating.  Gradually I returned to my asthma symptoms. Gradually all meals started tasting the same.

    Did I lose weight?  I'm not sure, as my ketone problem overshadowed all else.  Did I need green tea or anything else to curb my appetite?  No, plain water (not even distilled or bottled water, but tap water) was good enough. Do I recommend fasting?  In moderation.  10 days is far too long.

  • Gabriella Kadar

    6/6/2011 3:20:06 AM |

    Is the fluoride content of any tea (Camellia sinensis) not an issue?  Data on ppm fluoride vary but they all appear to be quite high and much higher than water fluoridation levels.

  • David

    6/7/2011 8:37:20 PM |

    Try Jasmine Tea which is green tea with Jasmine flowers.  Much tastier.
    I don't like plain green tea myself, but I love Jasmine tea.

  • Renfrew

    6/8/2011 8:08:38 AM |

    There is only one problem with green tea: Pesticides.
    Most green tea is imported from India or China because it is the cheapest. On testing, a serious amount of pesticides, fungicides, microcides is found regularly. I wonder if this diminishes the health aspect of green tea.
    I used to buy organic green tea from Japan but after Fukushima that option is also out.
    Still, certified organic is the only option left, I suppose.
    Renfrew

  • nina

    6/8/2011 8:04:07 PM |

    Just tried again and I get the same message 'You're already subscribed'.  Pity that Feedburner no longer delivers to me.

    Nina

  • GaryR

    6/9/2011 9:43:01 AM |

    Started IF HFLC diet three months ago. 30 lbs lost and A1c down to
    5.1 !! (was 6.7 ) . Curiously I have been drinking green tea during the daily 18 hour fasts and hunger is a rare occurance,  hunger pains last only a few seconds. The tea helps,  body and mind trained to not think about food until
    nightly free for all. Thank you, Dr. Davis and contributors>

  • majkinetor

    6/9/2011 1:37:31 PM |

    2 Gabriella

    Flouride IS an issue with green tea. There are known cases of flourde poisoning with excessive green tea drinking - woman drinking equivalent of 20-30 green tea cups per day. This isn't something to worry about on regular usage but if you do it on IF with reduced nutrient input and more frequently to reduce appetite it can become a problem.

    White tea has lower content of fluoride as it is harvested when plant is still young. It is much more expensive but overall better then green tea due to less processing and lower fluoride content.

    Coffee works for me absolutely amazing in reducing hunger. To some people, however, it works the opposite way. My friend develops hand tremor, nervousness, and heat. The same thing she got from the green tea but not other teas. Caffeine might be problematic for some I guess, or maybe tannin. We are currently in the process of isolation of such substance.

    To reduce appetite, I found the following valuable:
    - Garlic, fresh, in tomato juice (parsley can be included to block the smell). The capsule doesn't work.
    - High intensity exercise, short bursts of 15-20 minutes will shut down digestive engine and you will not be able to eat for hour at least.
    - Marijuana restriction - its usage during fat loss might be problematic due to activation of CB1/anandamide system.
    - Periodic IF can learn body to handle prolonged food abstinence. I find that 16-24 hours fast is enough.
    - Almonds, 10-15g, are cool, especially if you tend to go crazy before sleep - its mostly fat which doesn't rise insulin during night. 2g CHO, 3.5g MUFA, 1g PUFA, 2g P is enough to make your hunger go down at least a bit and still keep your insulin down.
    - Water

    I would suggest extensive supplementation during IF - especially Vit C (at least 2g as frequent as possible), Mg, Iodine, Selenium, Idebenon.

  • Sifter

    6/10/2011 4:13:39 AM |

    Drs. Davis or Taylor (or anyone else) have you noticed any issues with accumulated caffeine intake from multiple cups of Green Tea throughout the day?

  • Cate

    6/12/2011 8:22:10 PM |

    Dr. Davis, I hadn't heard about the dangers of pesticide use relating to green tea (as mentioned by Renfew, above)...is this a viable concern?  Since green tea is loaded with antioxidants, do the benefits outweigh the risks in this case?

    I have been drinking about two to three cups of Tazo Zen Green Tea for quite awhile now (hot, as well as chilled), and enjoy it very much.  It does seem to curb cravings quite well.  I also notice increased energy without the edgy side effects that coffee sometimes causes.  Before Tazo, I was not a big fan of the taste of green tea, but the Zen blend also contains lemon verbena, spearmint leaves and lemongrass, which enhances the flavor and makes it quite delicious--providing an "aromatherapy experience" along with the tea consumption.  Smile

  • Evolutionarily

    6/21/2011 7:28:23 AM |

    Thank you for your informative comment JLL!

  • azzy

    6/27/2011 12:15:19 PM |

    me too!i keep hearing about green tea for fasting, so i took it on day 2 i think and was detoxing to fast cos i took it on a empty stomach....:/

  • Logan

    9/15/2011 7:56:34 PM |

    I drink the Tazo Zen Green Tea from Starbucks. I prefer this green tea over any others, however I have noticed extreme dizziness when I drink this tea. Has anyone experienced this? I even bought the tea bags to brew at home, I do not add any sweetener and love the taste. I occasionally drink black tea or soda and do not get the same dizzy feeling, therefore I believe it is not caffeine causing me to feel dizzy it's just green tea. Any suggestions or comments? I like the benefits of green tea but not sure it's worth the dizziness.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/16/2011 2:36:08 AM |

    Wacky. No, I'm not sure why this happens.

    Perhaps its some mixture or proportion of the theaflavins or other components. There are hundreds of green tea preparations available. It might be worth finding a happy alternative.

  • Wendy Rahilly

    11/25/2011 3:50:05 PM |

    I have been using green tea for years in weight loss.  You are right, it is not a "speedy" remedy and you will only recognize small affects it has, however, it does work.  On average, it is said that you can burn anywhere from 70 to 80 calories a day drinking green tea.  This is assuming you are drinking at least 3 to 4 cups daily.  It should be combined with water and a healthy diet and exercise.

  • Dr. H

    10/27/2012 11:38:52 AM |

    About the dizziness, I had severe vertigo in the middle of the night, i.e. at 3 am (my blood pressure was 130/100 pr 90), and the day and the night before sleeping, I consumed 4 mugs of green tea. The vertigo was associated with vomiting (which relieved the vertigo for a while). The vertigo lasted till the next day (vomited 4x). The green tea was a gift from a friend who came back from China-loose dried leaves. After that episode, I think I can't make myself to drink green tea again.

  • Jennifer

    2/20/2013 7:12:45 AM |

    I sometimes do a morning 'flush' of green tea, up to 4 freshly brewed mugfuls, with the addition of a squeeze of fresh lemon, which complements the taste and gives extra benefits, vitamin c and supporting detoxification.

    I recently saw a BBC documentary which demonstrated an optimal brew time of 7 minutes for maximum anti-oxidant release.

    Also, the cooled teabags are an excellent beauty treatment for the eye area, squeeze excess moisture and relax for a few minutes.

    Am reluctant to extend beyond midday due to stimulating effect of caffeine, how about switching to other teas that deliver other useful benefits? Ginger, fennel, liquorice come to mind.

    Blessings of health

Loading