Dr. Joseph Prendergast and l-arginine

In response to a discussion started by Track Your Plaque Member, Rich, on the Member Forum, I tracked down Dr. Joseph Prendergast, who had posted a video on his unique experiences, both personal and professional, with l-arginine.

Dr. Prendergast describes some of this in a brief webcast. Here, I quote Rich:

“This 90-second video by a Palo Alto physician (internal/endocrine, diabetes specialist) will totally blow your mind.

http://enews.endocrinemetabolic.com/2007/08/16-12-years.html

You will see in the link below that he reversed his personal atherosclerotic disease, diagnosed in abdominal aorta at age 37—completely reversed. He's now much older."

http://www.endocrinemetabolic.com/about/press/larginine.pdf



I contacted Dr. Prendergast to find out more.

Dr. Joseph Predergast is founder of the Endocrine Metabolic Medical Center in Palo Alto, California, focused on providing care for people with diabetes. In addition to the website, he provides Blogs and newsletters, though most of his conversation is about diabetes issues. Dr. Predergast’s website is located at http://www.endocrinemetabolic.com.

I asked Dr. Prendergast several questions about his l-arginine experience. His brief answers are below.



1) What dose of l-arginine have you employed in your patients and why this dose?

The dose is 3 - 6 grams as suggested by the Stanford Cardiovascular Research Department Chairman John Cooke. http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/John_Cooke/

2) I gather that you have preference for specific preparations of l-arginine. Can you say why some preparations seem superior to others in your experience?

I started with pharmaceutical l-arginine from the pharmacy. I gradually began to add components that would augment the power of the l-arginine and have gone through 12–15 different products. I have completely reversed my own very severe atherosclerosis discovered at age 37 and there has been less than 0.05% cardiovascular disease in my endocrine practice in almost 17 years. Both my exams were evaluated with CT technology. I am now using ProArgi9 Plus that includes several anti-aging components and will likely never switch. http://www.synergyworldwide.com/synergycorp/home.aspx

3) Are you employing any other unique practices in your patients to reduce cardiovascular events?

Withdrawing as many prescription drugs as possible.




Interesting. Of course, I also advocate l-arginine as a facilitator of atherosclerotic plaque regression, though I am not as ebullient about its use as Dr. Prendergast.

Instead, I see l-arginine as a method that yields forced normalization of “endothelial dysfunction,” the abnormal constriction and other effects that develop when abnormal lipoproteins and unhealthy food by-products are present in the circulation. Endothelial dysfunction is an inevitable accompaniment of plaque.

However, unlike Dr. Predergast’s experience, despite our use of doses higher than he uses, I have never seen plaque regression just using l-arginine alone. Nonetheless, it’s good to hear that others are seeing at least some positive effects.

By the way, we have also had some positive posts on our Forum about the ProArgi9 product he uses.

Dr. Dwight Lundell on omega-3s and CLA



An interview with Dr. Dwight Lundell, cardiac surgeon and author of the new book, "The Cure for Heart Disease."


Dr. Lundell comes to us with a unique pedigree. He is a cardiothoracic surgeon practicing in the Phoenix, Arizona, area. Despite having performed thousands of coronary bypass operations, including numerous "off-pump" procedures earning him a place in the Beating Heart Hall of Fame and a listing in Phoenix Magazine’s Top Doctors for 10 years, more recently Dr. Lundell has turned his attentions away from traditional surgical treatment and towards prevention of heart disease and.

In particular, Dr. Lundell is a vocal advocate for omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil and conjugated linoleic acid, or CLA.

When I heard about Dr. Lundell’s unique perspectives, I asked him if he’d like to tell us a little more about his ideas. Here follows a brief interview with Dr. Lundell.



You’re a vocal advocate of the role of omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil in heart disease prevention. Can you tell us how you use it?

In my book, I recommend 3 g of fish oil daily. This would normally yield about 1000 mg of EPA and DHA depending on the concentration of the supplement. This is approximately the dose that reduced sudden cardiac death by 50%, and all cause death, by 25% in patients with previous heart attack.

In patients with signs of chronic inflammation such as heart disease, obesity, arthritis, metabolic syndrome or depression or in those patients with elevation of CRP, I would recommend higher doses, 2000 to 3000 mg per day of EPA and DHA. The FDA has approved up to 3400 mg for treating patients with severely elevated triglycerides.

I personally take a 2000 mg EPA and DHA per day because I have calcium in my coronary arteries.




Of course, in the Track Your Plaque program we track coronary calcium scores. Do you track any measures of atherosclerosis in your patients to chart progression or regression?

Carotid ultrasound with measurement of IMT [intimal-medial thickness] has been shown to be a good surrogate marker for coronary disease, as has vascular reactivity in the arm. CT scanning with calcium scoring is a direct marker of coronary disease. CT does not differentiate between stable or unstable plaque but there is no good noninvasive way of doing this.

The dramatic value of CT scan calcium scoring is to demonstrate to people that they actually do have coronary disease and to motivate them to make the necessary lifestyle and nutritional changes to reduce it. CT scan with calcium scoring is a direct way to measure the progression or regression of coronary artery disease. If there is a choice between a direct measurement and indirect measurement, always choose the direct method.

Every patient treated with CLA in my clinic, experienced significant reductions in C-reactive protein. These patients were also on a weight-loss program, so I can't prove whether it was the CLA or the weight-loss that improved their inflammatory markers. In the animal model for arteriosclerosis, CLA has a dramatic effect of reducing and preventing plaque. This has not yet been proven in humans.

Normally, when people lose weight 20% or more of the loss is lean body mass (muscle) this lowers the metabolic rate and frustrates further weight-loss. My patient, from teenagers to retirees, lost no lean body mass and continued to have satisfactory weight-loss when CLA was used as part of the plan.



In reading your book, your use of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) as a principal ingredient struck me. Can you elaborate on why you choose to have your patients take CLA?

My enthusiasm for CLA is based on:

1) Safety?this is of paramount importance. Animal toxicity studies have been done, as well as multiple parameters measured in human studies, both of these are well reviewed recently in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2004:79(suppl)1132s). CLA, a naturally-occurring substance, is not toxic or harmful to animals or humans. The only negative report is by Riserus in Circulation (2002), where he found an elevated c- reactive protein; however, he used a preparation that is not commercially available and not found in nature as a single isomer.

2) Effectiveness?also critically important. A recent meta-analysis [a reanalysis of compiled data] in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2007; 85:1203-1211) demonstrated the effectiveness of CLA in causing loss of body fat in humans. The study also reconfirmed the safety of CLA.

Since we now know that atherosclerosis is an inflammatory disorder, any strategy that reduces low-grade inflammation without significant side effects would seem to be beneficial in the treatment and prevention of atherosclerosis. CLA not only has antioxidant properties, but it modulates inflammatory cascade at multiple points. CLA reduces PGE2 (in much the same way as omega-3) CLA also has been shown to reduce IL-2, tumor necrosis factor-alpha and Cox–2. It reduces platelet deposition and macrophage accumulation in plaques. It also has some beneficial effect in the PPAR [peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors, important for lipid and inflammatory-mediator metabolism] area.

Part of the effect of CLA may be because it reduces fat mass and thus the amount of pro-inflammatory cytokines produced by fat cells.

I reiterate and fully admit that CLA has not been shown to have any effect on atherosclerosis in human beings. However, the results in the standard animal models for atherosclerosis (rabbits, hamsters,APO-E knockout mice) are very dramatic.

From all I know, it appears that the effective dose for weight loss and the animal studies in atherosclerosis would be equal to about 3 g of CLA per day. The anti-inflammatory properties of CLA seem to work better in the presence of adequate blood levels of omega-3.



I’m curious how and why a busy cardiothoracic surgeon would transform his practice so dramatically. Was there a specific event that triggered your change?

The transition from a very busy surgical practice to writing and speaking about the prevention of coronary disease has not been particularly easy, but it has been very interesting. I can't really point to any specific epiphany, it was a general feeling of frustration that we were not making any progress in curing heart disease, which is what I thought I was doing when I began my medical career.

Of course, I enjoyed the technical advances, the dramatic life-saving things that you do and I did on a daily basis. American medicine is spectacularly good at managing crises and spectacularly horrible at preventing those crises.

The lipid hypothesis is old and tired, even the most aggressive statin therapy reduces risk of heart attack by about 30% in a relatively small subset of people. It's interesting that we're now looking at statins as an anti-inflammatory agent.


Thanks, Dr. Lundell. We look forward to future conversations as your experience with CLA and heart disease prevention and reversal develops!


More about Dr. Lundell's book, The Cure for Heart Disease can be found at http://www.thecureforheartdisease.net.


Note: We are planning a full Special Report on CLA for the Track Your Plaque website in future.

High-tech heart attack proofing


I was reminiscing the other day about what I was taught about heart disease in medical school some 20 years ago.

In the 1980s, the world was still (and remains) fascinated with this (then) novel "solution" to heart disease called coronary bypass surgery. As medical students, we all fought for a chance to watch a bypass operation being performed. And there was lots of opportunity. I was a medical student at St. Louis University School of Medicine, a center that boasted of a busy thoracic surgery service, performing up to 10 bypass operations every day.

Back then, coronary angioplasty was just a twinkle in Andreas Gruentzig's eye, still contemplating whether it was possible to put an inflatable device in the blockages of coronary arteries to re-establish blood flow. Risk detection for heart disease consisted of EKGs, screening for symptoms, detection of heart failure, and tests that are long forgotten in the dust bin of medical curiosities, tests like systolic-time intervals, phonocardiography (using amplified sound to detect abnormal heart sounds), and detailed physical examination. Treatment for heart attack involved nitroglycerin and extended bedrest. Bypass surgery would come after you recovered.

In other words, NONE of the tools we now use in the Track Your Plaque program for heart disease control and reversal were available just twenty years ago. There was no lipoprotein testing, no CT heart scans. Nobody recognized the power of omega-3 fatty acids (although epidemiologic observations were just beginning to suggest that eating fish might be the source of reduced risk for heart attack and cardiovascular death). Vitamin D? Why, that's in your milk so your babies don't get rickets.

So much of what we do today was not available then, nor were they even in the crystal ball of forward-looking people. I certainly had no idea whatsoever that I'd be talking and obsessing today about reversal of heart disease based on what I saw and learned back then.

Things have certainly come a long way and all for the better. The problem is that much of the world is stuck in 1985 and haven't yet heard that coronary disease is a manageable and reversible process. They've been sidetracked by the fiction propagated by the likes of Dr. Dean Ornish, the nonsense of low-fat diets aided and abetted by the food manufacturing industry and the USDA, the extravagant claims of some practitioners and the supplement industry. They haven't yet stumbled on the real-life experiences that are chronicled here in this Blog and the accompanying Track Your Plaque website.

Our program has been criticized for being too "high-tech," involving too many sophisticated measures like small LDL, lipoprotein(a) treatment, vitamin D blood levels. But when you see a woman reduce her heart scan score 63%, or a school principal's score plummet 51%, then that's reward in itself.

It's all about plaque

Just to keep my finger on the pulse of what is being said in the world of heart disease by the media, I subscribe to many publications.

Conversations abound about cholesterol, low-fat diets, now low-carb diets, not smoking, inflammation, etc. No doubt, these all have some importance in the conversation.

But the great majority of discussions fail to identify the one truly crucial factor to identify and track: coronary atherosclerotic plaque.

Sugar for breakfast

We were reviewing Stuart's diet because of his persistent small LDL, low HDL, modestly elevated triglycerides, and blood sugar of 107 mg/dl.

"I've changed my diet, doc. No kidding. We never fry our foods. No butter, no goodies. I don't know what else I can possibly do."

"Okay. Let's review your diet. What did you have for breakfast?"

"Orange juice, a big glass. Gotta get my potassium. Then cereal like Cheerios or Shredded Wheat, sometimes Kashi or Raisin Bran, always in skim milk. Gotta have my one slice of toast, no butter. I'll put some fruit preserves on it. You know, real fruit. Only whole wheat bread, never white. On Sundays, we always go out for pancakes, but now we order only whole wheat."

Many of us have gotten into a peculiar habit: Having what amounts to pure sugar for breakfast. Perhaps there's a little fiber thrown in with it, but many people indulge in breakfasts that are sugar and plenty of it. That's precisely what Stuart is doing: A breakfast that, while it doesn't contain a huge amount of sugar outside of the orange juice, is promptly converted to sugar. If we were to check his blood sugar just after his standard breakfast, it would rise substantially.

This pattern has become deeply ingrained into the American psyche. Some people will act like I've suggested we overthrow the government when I suggest that breakfast cereals need to be eliminated from their lives. We all share memories of Tony the Tiger, the leprechaun on Lucky Charms ("They're magically delicious!), reading the brightly colored boxes often including games and prizes. Breakfast cereals seem as American as apple pie. But the wheat and corn content ensures a big rise in blood sugar, the sort that create small LDL, low HDL, etc.--all the patterns Stuart is showing--and make us fat.

Orange juice? Too much sugar all at once. Get your potassium from whole vegetables and fruits, not from orange juice. (Bananas are another problem source of potassium for similar reasons despite being a whole fruit.)

Toast? Any diabetic who monitors their blood sugar after meals will tell you: Even one slice of bread, ANY bread, skyrockets blood sugar. Add the fruit preserves made with sugar syrup and it's doubly worse.

Pancakes? Even if made with plenty of fiber, blood sugars go absolutely berserk after a meal like this, especially if maple syrup is added.

In other words, the seemingly healthy breakfast Stuart eats guarantees that he fails to control all his patterns that contribute to his coronary plaque growth.

After I pointed out Stuart's dietary faux pas, he asked, "Then what the heck can I eat?"

"There's actually lots of good choices: Eggs (preferably free-range, if available, or the 'omega-3' enriched) or Egg Beaters; oat products, but true oat products like slow-cooked oatmeal, or the best of all, oat bran, used as a hot cereal; ground flaxseed as a hot cereal with added fruit, berries, nuts; a handful of raw almonds, walnuts, pecans; some cheese, preferably traditional fermented cheese and not processed; low-fat cottage cheese; low-fat yogurt that you flavor yourself with berries and nuts; raw seeds like sunflower and pumpkin.

"Try and save some of your dinner foods for breakfast. For instance, save some green peppers and onions from your salad and put it in your scrambled eggs along with some olive oil. Save some of the chicken and add it to your breakfast. Save some of the cooked vegetables and have them as they are. You'll be surprised how filling dinner foods can be when eaten for breakfast."

It's not that tough. But Stuart and many other people need to break the hold that the food manufacturers have created. If you're hoping to seize hold of your heart scan score, get rid of the sugar foods in your morning, even the ones cleverly disguised as healthy.

The Low-Carb Man

If ever there was an enthusiastic disciple of deceased Dr. Robert Atkins of Atkins' Diet fame, it's Mr. Jimmy Moore.








Jimmy tells the story of how he was transformed by the Atkins' approach, losing 180 lbs in the course of one year. He continues to develop this conversation, in many ways elaborating on the conversation in more sophisticated ways than even Atkins did in his lifetime.

Though we've agreed to disagree on some points of nutrition, Jimmy and I had a recent discussion about heart disease, the mis-guided ways of conventional cardiac care,and the evils of processed carbohydrates. We do differ on the role of saturated fat in heart disease and health, but beyond that difference I was impressed (reading his Blog and listening to his many webcasts) with his level of understanding of the issues. Jimmy is not some over-enthusiastic dieter. He has a grasp of the issues that exceeds that of 99% of my colleagues.

If you are interested in reading our discussion or just perusing a really fun, informative Blog/website, go to LivinLaVidaLowCarb.com. The interview is posted at:

http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2007/08/davis-wanna-cut-plaque-in-your-arteries.html


See Jimmy Moore's before and after pictures at http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2005/07/my-before-pictures.html. He's quite an entertaining read.

Why average cholesterol values can be so bad

Jack had been told again and again that there was absolutely nothing wrong with his cholesterol panel. His numbers:

Total cholesterol 198 mg/dl

LDL cholesterol 119 mg/dl--actually below the national average (131 mg/dl).

HDL 48 mg/dl--actually above the average HDL for a male (42 mg/dl).

Triglycerides 153 ng/dl--right at the average.


So his primary care physician was totally stumped when Jack's heart scan revealed a score of 410.


Lipoprotein analysis (NMR) told an entirely different story:

LDL particle number 1880 nmol/l (take off the last digit to generate an approximate real LDL, i.e., 188 mg/dl).

Small LDL 95% of all LDL particles, a very severe pattern.

A severe excess of intermediate-density lipoprotein (218 nmol/l), suggesting that dietary fats are not cleared for 24 hours or so after a meal.

And those were just the major points. In other words, where conventional cholesterol values, or lipids, failed miserably, lipoprotein analysis can shine. The causes for Jack's high heart scan score become immediately apparent, even obvious. Jack's abnormalities are relatively easy to correct--but you have to know if they're present before they can be corrected. A shotgun statin drug approach could only hope to correct a portion of this pattern, but would unquestionably fail to fully correct the pattern.

As I've said before, standard cholesterol testing is a fool's game. You can squeeze a little bit of information out of them, but there's so much more information that can be easily obtained through lipoprotein testing like Jack had.

Cholesterol trumps heart scan?

Lela's heart scan score: 449--very high for a 49-year old, peri-menopausal woman. Her score placed her flat in the 99th percentile, or the worst 1% of women her age.

Lela first consulted her primary care physician. Her doctor looked at the result puzzled. "Now wait a minute. Your cholesterol numbers have been great." After a pause, her doctor (a woman) declared the heart scan wrong. "Tests aren't perfect. The heart scan is simply wrong. I'm going to believe the cholesterol numbers and there's no way you have heart disease."

Is that right? Can cholesterol numbers trump your heart scan score? Can the heart scan simply be wrong?

The answer is simple: NO.

The heart scan is not wrong. The heart scan is right. What is wrong with this picture is that standard cholesterol testing commonly and frequently fails to identify people at risk for heart disease.

What if this woman smoked? That wouldn't be revealed in her cholesterol panel. Or had high blood pressure, increased inflammatory responses like C-reactive protein, had increased small LDL or lipoprotein(a), was severely deficient in vitamin D? None of that would be revealed by cholesterol numbers.

So, no, the heart scan is not wrong. The cholesterol numbers are not wrong. The doctor's interpretation of the data is wrong.

Please do not allow false reassurances offered by those who do not understand the technology steer you wrong.

This woman proved to have an entire panel of hidden causes of her coronary plaque uncovered. No surprise.

Boycott LabCorp

Track Your Plaque Members have been following this conversation on the Track Your Plaque Forum.

A good number of people have had their blood drawn for NMR lipoprotein analysis through laboratories operated by the Laboratory Corporation of American, or LabCorp. When the results were returned, the very important page 2 of the report was withheld. Many of us have communicated with the company, only to be given some corporate-speak about internal policy.

I have personally expressed my dissatisfaction, my outrage, at this silly policy. Why would laboratory results that you or your insurance paid for be denied to you? It is my understanding that, on request, you are legally entitled to the information. The page 2 information is provided by the laboratory (Liposcience, Inc.) that actually performs the testing. LabCorp does nothing more than draw the blood, prepare the specimen, then convey and dilute the results that Liposcience reports to them.

My personal suspicion is that the LabCorp people do this to 1) make the results appear that they actually performed the tests and not farmed to an outside laboratory (Liposcience), and 2) not further confuse and befuddle the bungling primary care physician who barely understands cholesterol issues to begin with. "LDL, HDL, triglycerides . . . What now--a bunch of new information, bars even!?

To me, this LabCorp policy is criminal. In fact, I wonder if this has the substance to justify a class action lawsuit against LabCorp. I believe that we can easily make a case that crucial health information is being systematically denied to people.

If this has affected you, or if you share in the frustration of many people who have had watered down lipoprotein results provided, write to:


Ken Younts, VP of Sales at LabCorp. Yountsk@labcorp.com


Or, write to:

Tom MacMahon
Chairman of the Board

David P. King
President and Chief Executive Officer

Laboratory Corporation of America Holdings
358 South Main Street
Burlington, NC 27215



Thanks to the Track Your Plaque Members who have already participated in this campaign and written to the LabCorp people. And thanks to our Members who uncovered the contact information.

Until then, please BOYCOTT LABCORP LABORATORIES. Please do not use LabCorp Laboratories if you can avoid it. Simply ask the laboratory staff who operates the lab and they should tell you. It is your right to know.

Useless low-fat diets

If you would like to read an ironic testimonial to the futility of conventional low-fat diets, read:

Cutting Cholesterol, an Uphill Battle on the New York Times website at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/health/21brod.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=health&adxnnlx=1187928650-f0mfyzGTFdsLmtInHcGPUw

In this story, author and columnist Jane Brody recounts her struggles with her cholesterol levels. She describes how she followed an increasingly strict low-saturated fat diet, hoping to reduce LDL cholesterol. But she saw the opposite occur: LDL climbed from an initial 134 to 171, a level that caused her doctor to prescribe a statin drug.

Yet she states that "About 85 percent of the cholesterol in your blood is made in your body. The remaining 15 percent comes from food. But by reducing dietary sources of saturated fats and cholesterol and increasing consumption of cholesterol-fighting foods and drink, you can usually lower the amount of harmful cholesterol in your blood."

Had Ms. Brody and her doctor been just a bit better informed and performed lipoprotein analysis instead, they would have seen some obvious phenomena:

--All the increase in LDL was in the fraction of small particles, the sort highly likely to cause heart attack.

--The conventional LDL that she quotes is a calculated value that miserably misrepresents the real LDL when actually measured. Her calculated LDL of 171 mg/dl, in fact, was probably more like 220 to 250 mg/dl--much higher than they think.


Of course, Ms. Brody turns to her conventionally-thinking physician who then predictably prescribes a statin drug.

Ms. Brody's well-articulated story achieves the ironic, unintended result of proving the idiocy of the conventional low-fat diet. The low-fat diet, as currently practiced by most people, raises LDL cholesterol and escalates risk for heart disease. In fact, Ms. Brody probably increased her risk far more than suggested by a 30 mg increase in LDL.

One of my favorite blogs, the Fanatic Cook, has a tremendously insightful post on Ms. Brody's misadventures.

If all she did was eliminate all wheat flour containing products and reduce the overall glycemic index of her diet, she would witness an enormous drop in LDL cholesterol, both calculated and measured.

I hope that Ms. Brody survives her diet mistakes and her doctor's ignorance.
Fasting with green tea

Fasting with green tea

I've been playing around with brief (18-24 hour) fasts with the use of green tea. Of the several variations on fasting, such as juice "fasts,"  I've been most impressed with the green tea experience.

While the weight loss effects of daily green tea consumption are modest, there seems to be a specific satiety effect that has now been demonstrated in multiple studies, such as this and this. In other words, green tea, through an uncertain mechanism, reduces hunger. The effect is not just due to volume, since the effect cannot be reproduced with hot water alone.

I therefore wondered whether green tea might be a useful beverage to consume during a fast, as it might take the "edge" off of hunger. While hunger during a fast in the wheat-free is far less than wheat-consuming humans, there is indeed an occasional twinge of hunger felt.

So I tried it, brewing a fresh 6-8 oz cup evert two hours or so. I brewed a pot in the morning while at home, followed by brewing single cups using my tea infuser at the office. Whenever I began to experience a hunger pang, I brewed another cup and sipped it. I was pleasantly surprised that hunger was considerably reduced. I sailed through my last 18 hours, for instance, effortlessly. The process was actually quite pleasant.

I brew loose Chinese bancha, sencha, and chunmee teas and Japanese gyokuro tea. Gyokuro is my favorite, but also the most expensive. Bancha is more affordable and I've used that most frequently.

If anyone else gives this a try, please report back your experience.

Comments (34) -

  • Phyllis

    6/1/2011 12:04:50 AM |

    I would like to know if this works with iced green tea as well. I used a method of one meal per day to loose 50+ pounds. I found it pretty easy, all in all, but have regained about 20 now and need to get back on it. I think I will give iced green tea a try! (I'm not crazy about hot green tea, but like it fine iced)

  • preserve

    6/1/2011 12:09:56 AM |

    I use tea as a method of extending eating intervals.  It works well.  I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the "upper" effect.  Ie.  uppers reduce appetite as a result of blocked sensory.

    I find fasting and sensory blocking to be counter-productive.

  • Geoffrey Levens, L.Ac.

    6/1/2011 12:33:19 AM |

    May be other effects but caffeine and it's cousin theobromine in the tea are pretty reliable appetite suppressants.  But isn't getting jacked up (even if only a little) a bit counter productive to some of the potential benefits of fasting?  The idea is to rest your physiology while catabolism is in full swing. Activating the sympathetic nervous system so you don't have to experience the sensations you don't like during the early stages of fasting does not seem to me to really promote that.

  • fredt

    6/1/2011 1:09:29 AM |

    Yes, green tea reduces my hunger; I just use Tetley in the bag. Some of the greens do not have a satiating effect on me, nor do any of the black teas. Coffee increases hunger for me. Bullion cubes or OXO packets also help. I make a 1.5 l thermos, and suck on that until its done. Some days 3 or 4 of them in a day. I think I have more hunger than most people, but I am down 55 kgs, 2 to 4 years ago and have been down for 2 years.

    The other thing that helps me is chew-able Vitamin C, a couple of 500s any time I feel hungry. It seems to raise BG, possible due to BG sparing, as it is required for far oxidation, or inside cell far transport, depending on who is explaining. Two 500's raise my BG form 4.0 to 5.3 -- OK US 72 to 95.
    I am off wheat mostly; occasionally Clam chowder, sausages, and a few crackers for low BG issues. One cracker raises BG 1.5 at 15 mins.

    Thanks for the one hour BG idea. Some of my higher protein meals were a problem, like 280 Calories of canned salmon ran my BG to 9.0 (OK 162). And my doctor says I an not diabetic but my a.m. BG sure is erratic, 4.0 to 6.2 this week.

  • Sharon

    6/1/2011 2:22:06 AM |

    Hey Phyllis, I'm with you. I have been drinking 4 cups green tea made with tea bags and then chilled and have noticed that I'm not as hungry but didn't really connect it with the tea itself. I need to lose 50 lbs and I like the idea of one meal a day.

  • Scott P.

    6/1/2011 2:24:11 AM |

    Green tea, or any tea actually, makes me a little ill on an empty stomach.  Not sure but believe it is the tannins.  I also was consuming a lot of green/white tea while fasting and I just felt really acidic and my face got red splotches, which seems to coincide with acidity.  I know the net result is supposed to be alkaline for green/white tea but that has not been my experience.  Recently, I've been adding a tablespoon of apple cider vinager to a cup of warm water.  Went a fairly easy 18 hours today but did break down and had four or five macadamia nuts around 12 hours in.

  • MAS

    6/1/2011 2:44:37 AM |

    I absolutely drink green and lightly oxidized oolongs during my fasts.   It curbs the hunger and provides focus.  Been doing it for 2.5 years.

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/1/2011 2:49:43 AM |

    After millennia of human starvation, to think that we still have tons to learn about fasting used for health purposes!

    Phyllis--While I've not tried it personally, nor do I know of any formal data, I expect that iced green tea--provided it is real brewed green tea, and not the bottled variety--should work every bit as well.

  • Dianne - TPSW

    6/1/2011 1:28:40 PM |

    I am unable to drink green tea at all on an empty stomach, I will absolutely throw up if I do.  I end up with pullovertothesideoftheroadI'mgoingtopukeyesseriously!".   I actually threw up all over my suit once which was really special.  Green tea with food often makes me queasy as well.  I am allergic to oak so I think there may be a tannin connection as some heavy oak wines are problematic for me.

  • Anne

    6/1/2011 4:46:28 PM |

    I am making today a fast day. I have been drinking a mix of green and white tea but it is decaffeinated.  How often should one fast?

  • Jonathan Carey

    6/1/2011 5:58:30 PM |

    For those who get dizzy on green tea, try puerh tea.  It is a fermented green tea that is also much lower in caffeine and it taste much better than green.  It is the equivalent of drinking an aged red wine over 2 buck chuck.

  • JLL

    6/2/2011 11:27:49 AM |

    This question has been around for quite some time,  but no one seems to know the answer for certain.

    Theoretically at least, consuming antioxidants during fasting could be detrimental to autophagy (removing "junk" cells), since antioxidants might suppress the stress response from fasting. This is why some studies show antioxidants and exercise are a bad combination -- you *want* some stress to happen so that the body can adapt to it.

    Then again, there is the theory that small amounts of antioxidants actually work through the same mechanism as fasting and exercise -- hormesis. In which case fasting + antioxidants might complement each other. But that's just speculation.

    What we do know from studies is that green tea seems to increase weight loss, for example when combined with calorie restriction (and thus should apply to fasting):

    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/04/green-tea-increases-weight-loss-during.html

    And when combined with exercise:

    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/03/green-tea-extract-increases-insulin.html
    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/02/green-tea-extract-enhances-abdominal.html

    And when combined with capsaicin (from chilli pepper), it reduces the feeling of hunger and thus calorie intake:

    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/04/green-tea-and-capsaicin-reduce-hunger.html

    So all in all, whatever the mechanism is, if you're fasting just for the sake of losing weight, I'd say green tea is a pretty good bet.

    - JLL

  • Paul Lee

    6/2/2011 12:21:31 PM |

    Would depend on the length of fasts, but the East Stop East method advocates two fasts per week.  My fasts are now usually shorter, as they kind of trained me to stop grazing. I usually don't bother with breakfast now. The more you eat, the more you want to eat sometimes.

  • nina

    6/2/2011 8:10:00 PM |

    I'm subscribed to your blog, but since  you changed format the posts haven't been showing up in my mail box.  I tried to re-subscribe, but am told I'm already subscribed.  How do I get back in the loop?

    Nina

  • Dr. William Davis

    6/3/2011 1:31:00 AM |

    Anyone not receiving email versions of this blog:

    I wonder if the shift over to the new platform caused a few glitches. My blog IT help is out of commission temporarily. Therefore, please sign up again at the top.

    Sorry about that.

  • Dr. Mary Taylor, PT, DPT

    6/3/2011 6:41:41 PM |

    Yes, I completely agree with you! I went 90% wheat and sugar free from November 2010 to February 2011 and lost a whopping 2 pounds. It wasn't until I went to 95% or more wheat free that I was able to start losing weight. I am now 100% wheat free and I have lost 36.2 pounds in 15 weeks. I have also been able to significantly cut my caloric intake to 500-700 calories per day (sometimes less than 500) using iced jasmine green tea. I truly believe that a diet that is lower in calories is better for health. I typically drink 6-8 glasses a day and I really enjoy it. It helps immensely with any hunger I may have and completely satisfies my sense to eat. I use any of the varieties available in tea bag (Numi, Two Leaves and a Bud, Stash, and Mighty Leaf are my favorites). I typically choose whatever's on sale. I also drink a full glass every morning prior to eating and that also seems to stimulate my colon which is a bonus as well when consuming such low caloric counts.

    On a cholesterol and BG level, my family genetics are something that should be studied. While I started my diet at 234.8# on 2/15/2011 (I'm 5'3" and 47 y/o female) my total cholesterol was 167 and my HDL was 54. My 102 y/o grandmother however, has a total cholesterol of 155 and an HDL of 115! My 76 y/o mother also has the same great results but her HDL is "only" 109. Neither of them are on any medication for cholesterol and both of them eat a diet fully based on things we berate on this blog (cookies, bread, ice cream, fried foods, etc). Neither are overweight either. I'm eager to see what my levels become when I reach my goal weight. Maybe I can surpass that HDL of 115!

  • nina

    6/3/2011 9:39:20 PM |

    I tried that before I posted and it tells me I'm already subscribed.

    Nina

  • Ron Saunders

    6/5/2011 8:06:56 AM |

    About 15 years ago I went on a fast and had only water.  The fast lasted for 10 days.  No green tea.  Just water.  After 18 hours, I completely lost any hunger.  Meanwhile I continued to cook meals for my family.  I also continued to go to work every day.

    The experience seemed wonderful.  I had been suffering badly from asthma, and all symptoms disappeared!  I could have kept going forever without eating.  However, after 10 days I started to have problems with urination.  I began excreting small, hard pellets.

    I went to the doctor, and he exploded.  "You bloody fool!" he said.  I had altered the ketone content of my blood.

    So I started eating again.  My first meal was brown rice (no salt).  It was the most beautiful meal I ever had.  Gradually I returned to normal eating.  Gradually I returned to my asthma symptoms. Gradually all meals started tasting the same.

    Did I lose weight?  I'm not sure, as my ketone problem overshadowed all else.  Did I need green tea or anything else to curb my appetite?  No, plain water (not even distilled or bottled water, but tap water) was good enough. Do I recommend fasting?  In moderation.  10 days is far too long.

  • Gabriella Kadar

    6/6/2011 3:20:06 AM |

    Is the fluoride content of any tea (Camellia sinensis) not an issue?  Data on ppm fluoride vary but they all appear to be quite high and much higher than water fluoridation levels.

  • David

    6/7/2011 8:37:20 PM |

    Try Jasmine Tea which is green tea with Jasmine flowers.  Much tastier.
    I don't like plain green tea myself, but I love Jasmine tea.

  • Renfrew

    6/8/2011 8:08:38 AM |

    There is only one problem with green tea: Pesticides.
    Most green tea is imported from India or China because it is the cheapest. On testing, a serious amount of pesticides, fungicides, microcides is found regularly. I wonder if this diminishes the health aspect of green tea.
    I used to buy organic green tea from Japan but after Fukushima that option is also out.
    Still, certified organic is the only option left, I suppose.
    Renfrew

  • nina

    6/8/2011 8:04:07 PM |

    Just tried again and I get the same message 'You're already subscribed'.  Pity that Feedburner no longer delivers to me.

    Nina

  • GaryR

    6/9/2011 9:43:01 AM |

    Started IF HFLC diet three months ago. 30 lbs lost and A1c down to
    5.1 !! (was 6.7 ) . Curiously I have been drinking green tea during the daily 18 hour fasts and hunger is a rare occurance,  hunger pains last only a few seconds. The tea helps,  body and mind trained to not think about food until
    nightly free for all. Thank you, Dr. Davis and contributors>

  • majkinetor

    6/9/2011 1:37:31 PM |

    2 Gabriella

    Flouride IS an issue with green tea. There are known cases of flourde poisoning with excessive green tea drinking - woman drinking equivalent of 20-30 green tea cups per day. This isn't something to worry about on regular usage but if you do it on IF with reduced nutrient input and more frequently to reduce appetite it can become a problem.

    White tea has lower content of fluoride as it is harvested when plant is still young. It is much more expensive but overall better then green tea due to less processing and lower fluoride content.

    Coffee works for me absolutely amazing in reducing hunger. To some people, however, it works the opposite way. My friend develops hand tremor, nervousness, and heat. The same thing she got from the green tea but not other teas. Caffeine might be problematic for some I guess, or maybe tannin. We are currently in the process of isolation of such substance.

    To reduce appetite, I found the following valuable:
    - Garlic, fresh, in tomato juice (parsley can be included to block the smell). The capsule doesn't work.
    - High intensity exercise, short bursts of 15-20 minutes will shut down digestive engine and you will not be able to eat for hour at least.
    - Marijuana restriction - its usage during fat loss might be problematic due to activation of CB1/anandamide system.
    - Periodic IF can learn body to handle prolonged food abstinence. I find that 16-24 hours fast is enough.
    - Almonds, 10-15g, are cool, especially if you tend to go crazy before sleep - its mostly fat which doesn't rise insulin during night. 2g CHO, 3.5g MUFA, 1g PUFA, 2g P is enough to make your hunger go down at least a bit and still keep your insulin down.
    - Water

    I would suggest extensive supplementation during IF - especially Vit C (at least 2g as frequent as possible), Mg, Iodine, Selenium, Idebenon.

  • Sifter

    6/10/2011 4:13:39 AM |

    Drs. Davis or Taylor (or anyone else) have you noticed any issues with accumulated caffeine intake from multiple cups of Green Tea throughout the day?

  • Cate

    6/12/2011 8:22:10 PM |

    Dr. Davis, I hadn't heard about the dangers of pesticide use relating to green tea (as mentioned by Renfew, above)...is this a viable concern?  Since green tea is loaded with antioxidants, do the benefits outweigh the risks in this case?

    I have been drinking about two to three cups of Tazo Zen Green Tea for quite awhile now (hot, as well as chilled), and enjoy it very much.  It does seem to curb cravings quite well.  I also notice increased energy without the edgy side effects that coffee sometimes causes.  Before Tazo, I was not a big fan of the taste of green tea, but the Zen blend also contains lemon verbena, spearmint leaves and lemongrass, which enhances the flavor and makes it quite delicious--providing an "aromatherapy experience" along with the tea consumption.  Smile

  • Evolutionarily

    6/21/2011 7:28:23 AM |

    Thank you for your informative comment JLL!

  • azzy

    6/27/2011 12:15:19 PM |

    me too!i keep hearing about green tea for fasting, so i took it on day 2 i think and was detoxing to fast cos i took it on a empty stomach....:/

  • Logan

    9/15/2011 7:56:34 PM |

    I drink the Tazo Zen Green Tea from Starbucks. I prefer this green tea over any others, however I have noticed extreme dizziness when I drink this tea. Has anyone experienced this? I even bought the tea bags to brew at home, I do not add any sweetener and love the taste. I occasionally drink black tea or soda and do not get the same dizzy feeling, therefore I believe it is not caffeine causing me to feel dizzy it's just green tea. Any suggestions or comments? I like the benefits of green tea but not sure it's worth the dizziness.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/16/2011 2:36:08 AM |

    Wacky. No, I'm not sure why this happens.

    Perhaps its some mixture or proportion of the theaflavins or other components. There are hundreds of green tea preparations available. It might be worth finding a happy alternative.

  • Wendy Rahilly

    11/25/2011 3:50:05 PM |

    I have been using green tea for years in weight loss.  You are right, it is not a "speedy" remedy and you will only recognize small affects it has, however, it does work.  On average, it is said that you can burn anywhere from 70 to 80 calories a day drinking green tea.  This is assuming you are drinking at least 3 to 4 cups daily.  It should be combined with water and a healthy diet and exercise.

  • Dr. H

    10/27/2012 11:38:52 AM |

    About the dizziness, I had severe vertigo in the middle of the night, i.e. at 3 am (my blood pressure was 130/100 pr 90), and the day and the night before sleeping, I consumed 4 mugs of green tea. The vertigo was associated with vomiting (which relieved the vertigo for a while). The vertigo lasted till the next day (vomited 4x). The green tea was a gift from a friend who came back from China-loose dried leaves. After that episode, I think I can't make myself to drink green tea again.

  • Jennifer

    2/20/2013 7:12:45 AM |

    I sometimes do a morning 'flush' of green tea, up to 4 freshly brewed mugfuls, with the addition of a squeeze of fresh lemon, which complements the taste and gives extra benefits, vitamin c and supporting detoxification.

    I recently saw a BBC documentary which demonstrated an optimal brew time of 7 minutes for maximum anti-oxidant release.

    Also, the cooled teabags are an excellent beauty treatment for the eye area, squeeze excess moisture and relax for a few minutes.

    Am reluctant to extend beyond midday due to stimulating effect of caffeine, how about switching to other teas that deliver other useful benefits? Ginger, fennel, liquorice come to mind.

    Blessings of health

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