Dr. Joseph Prendergast and l-arginine

In response to a discussion started by Track Your Plaque Member, Rich, on the Member Forum, I tracked down Dr. Joseph Prendergast, who had posted a video on his unique experiences, both personal and professional, with l-arginine.

Dr. Prendergast describes some of this in a brief webcast. Here, I quote Rich:

“This 90-second video by a Palo Alto physician (internal/endocrine, diabetes specialist) will totally blow your mind.

http://enews.endocrinemetabolic.com/2007/08/16-12-years.html

You will see in the link below that he reversed his personal atherosclerotic disease, diagnosed in abdominal aorta at age 37—completely reversed. He's now much older."

http://www.endocrinemetabolic.com/about/press/larginine.pdf



I contacted Dr. Prendergast to find out more.

Dr. Joseph Predergast is founder of the Endocrine Metabolic Medical Center in Palo Alto, California, focused on providing care for people with diabetes. In addition to the website, he provides Blogs and newsletters, though most of his conversation is about diabetes issues. Dr. Predergast’s website is located at http://www.endocrinemetabolic.com.

I asked Dr. Prendergast several questions about his l-arginine experience. His brief answers are below.



1) What dose of l-arginine have you employed in your patients and why this dose?

The dose is 3 - 6 grams as suggested by the Stanford Cardiovascular Research Department Chairman John Cooke. http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/John_Cooke/

2) I gather that you have preference for specific preparations of l-arginine. Can you say why some preparations seem superior to others in your experience?

I started with pharmaceutical l-arginine from the pharmacy. I gradually began to add components that would augment the power of the l-arginine and have gone through 12–15 different products. I have completely reversed my own very severe atherosclerosis discovered at age 37 and there has been less than 0.05% cardiovascular disease in my endocrine practice in almost 17 years. Both my exams were evaluated with CT technology. I am now using ProArgi9 Plus that includes several anti-aging components and will likely never switch. http://www.synergyworldwide.com/synergycorp/home.aspx

3) Are you employing any other unique practices in your patients to reduce cardiovascular events?

Withdrawing as many prescription drugs as possible.




Interesting. Of course, I also advocate l-arginine as a facilitator of atherosclerotic plaque regression, though I am not as ebullient about its use as Dr. Prendergast.

Instead, I see l-arginine as a method that yields forced normalization of “endothelial dysfunction,” the abnormal constriction and other effects that develop when abnormal lipoproteins and unhealthy food by-products are present in the circulation. Endothelial dysfunction is an inevitable accompaniment of plaque.

However, unlike Dr. Predergast’s experience, despite our use of doses higher than he uses, I have never seen plaque regression just using l-arginine alone. Nonetheless, it’s good to hear that others are seeing at least some positive effects.

By the way, we have also had some positive posts on our Forum about the ProArgi9 product he uses.

Dr. Dwight Lundell on omega-3s and CLA



An interview with Dr. Dwight Lundell, cardiac surgeon and author of the new book, "The Cure for Heart Disease."


Dr. Lundell comes to us with a unique pedigree. He is a cardiothoracic surgeon practicing in the Phoenix, Arizona, area. Despite having performed thousands of coronary bypass operations, including numerous "off-pump" procedures earning him a place in the Beating Heart Hall of Fame and a listing in Phoenix Magazine’s Top Doctors for 10 years, more recently Dr. Lundell has turned his attentions away from traditional surgical treatment and towards prevention of heart disease and.

In particular, Dr. Lundell is a vocal advocate for omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil and conjugated linoleic acid, or CLA.

When I heard about Dr. Lundell’s unique perspectives, I asked him if he’d like to tell us a little more about his ideas. Here follows a brief interview with Dr. Lundell.



You’re a vocal advocate of the role of omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil in heart disease prevention. Can you tell us how you use it?

In my book, I recommend 3 g of fish oil daily. This would normally yield about 1000 mg of EPA and DHA depending on the concentration of the supplement. This is approximately the dose that reduced sudden cardiac death by 50%, and all cause death, by 25% in patients with previous heart attack.

In patients with signs of chronic inflammation such as heart disease, obesity, arthritis, metabolic syndrome or depression or in those patients with elevation of CRP, I would recommend higher doses, 2000 to 3000 mg per day of EPA and DHA. The FDA has approved up to 3400 mg for treating patients with severely elevated triglycerides.

I personally take a 2000 mg EPA and DHA per day because I have calcium in my coronary arteries.




Of course, in the Track Your Plaque program we track coronary calcium scores. Do you track any measures of atherosclerosis in your patients to chart progression or regression?

Carotid ultrasound with measurement of IMT [intimal-medial thickness] has been shown to be a good surrogate marker for coronary disease, as has vascular reactivity in the arm. CT scanning with calcium scoring is a direct marker of coronary disease. CT does not differentiate between stable or unstable plaque but there is no good noninvasive way of doing this.

The dramatic value of CT scan calcium scoring is to demonstrate to people that they actually do have coronary disease and to motivate them to make the necessary lifestyle and nutritional changes to reduce it. CT scan with calcium scoring is a direct way to measure the progression or regression of coronary artery disease. If there is a choice between a direct measurement and indirect measurement, always choose the direct method.

Every patient treated with CLA in my clinic, experienced significant reductions in C-reactive protein. These patients were also on a weight-loss program, so I can't prove whether it was the CLA or the weight-loss that improved their inflammatory markers. In the animal model for arteriosclerosis, CLA has a dramatic effect of reducing and preventing plaque. This has not yet been proven in humans.

Normally, when people lose weight 20% or more of the loss is lean body mass (muscle) this lowers the metabolic rate and frustrates further weight-loss. My patient, from teenagers to retirees, lost no lean body mass and continued to have satisfactory weight-loss when CLA was used as part of the plan.



In reading your book, your use of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) as a principal ingredient struck me. Can you elaborate on why you choose to have your patients take CLA?

My enthusiasm for CLA is based on:

1) Safety?this is of paramount importance. Animal toxicity studies have been done, as well as multiple parameters measured in human studies, both of these are well reviewed recently in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2004:79(suppl)1132s). CLA, a naturally-occurring substance, is not toxic or harmful to animals or humans. The only negative report is by Riserus in Circulation (2002), where he found an elevated c- reactive protein; however, he used a preparation that is not commercially available and not found in nature as a single isomer.

2) Effectiveness?also critically important. A recent meta-analysis [a reanalysis of compiled data] in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2007; 85:1203-1211) demonstrated the effectiveness of CLA in causing loss of body fat in humans. The study also reconfirmed the safety of CLA.

Since we now know that atherosclerosis is an inflammatory disorder, any strategy that reduces low-grade inflammation without significant side effects would seem to be beneficial in the treatment and prevention of atherosclerosis. CLA not only has antioxidant properties, but it modulates inflammatory cascade at multiple points. CLA reduces PGE2 (in much the same way as omega-3) CLA also has been shown to reduce IL-2, tumor necrosis factor-alpha and Cox–2. It reduces platelet deposition and macrophage accumulation in plaques. It also has some beneficial effect in the PPAR [peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors, important for lipid and inflammatory-mediator metabolism] area.

Part of the effect of CLA may be because it reduces fat mass and thus the amount of pro-inflammatory cytokines produced by fat cells.

I reiterate and fully admit that CLA has not been shown to have any effect on atherosclerosis in human beings. However, the results in the standard animal models for atherosclerosis (rabbits, hamsters,APO-E knockout mice) are very dramatic.

From all I know, it appears that the effective dose for weight loss and the animal studies in atherosclerosis would be equal to about 3 g of CLA per day. The anti-inflammatory properties of CLA seem to work better in the presence of adequate blood levels of omega-3.



I’m curious how and why a busy cardiothoracic surgeon would transform his practice so dramatically. Was there a specific event that triggered your change?

The transition from a very busy surgical practice to writing and speaking about the prevention of coronary disease has not been particularly easy, but it has been very interesting. I can't really point to any specific epiphany, it was a general feeling of frustration that we were not making any progress in curing heart disease, which is what I thought I was doing when I began my medical career.

Of course, I enjoyed the technical advances, the dramatic life-saving things that you do and I did on a daily basis. American medicine is spectacularly good at managing crises and spectacularly horrible at preventing those crises.

The lipid hypothesis is old and tired, even the most aggressive statin therapy reduces risk of heart attack by about 30% in a relatively small subset of people. It's interesting that we're now looking at statins as an anti-inflammatory agent.


Thanks, Dr. Lundell. We look forward to future conversations as your experience with CLA and heart disease prevention and reversal develops!


More about Dr. Lundell's book, The Cure for Heart Disease can be found at http://www.thecureforheartdisease.net.


Note: We are planning a full Special Report on CLA for the Track Your Plaque website in future.

High-tech heart attack proofing


I was reminiscing the other day about what I was taught about heart disease in medical school some 20 years ago.

In the 1980s, the world was still (and remains) fascinated with this (then) novel "solution" to heart disease called coronary bypass surgery. As medical students, we all fought for a chance to watch a bypass operation being performed. And there was lots of opportunity. I was a medical student at St. Louis University School of Medicine, a center that boasted of a busy thoracic surgery service, performing up to 10 bypass operations every day.

Back then, coronary angioplasty was just a twinkle in Andreas Gruentzig's eye, still contemplating whether it was possible to put an inflatable device in the blockages of coronary arteries to re-establish blood flow. Risk detection for heart disease consisted of EKGs, screening for symptoms, detection of heart failure, and tests that are long forgotten in the dust bin of medical curiosities, tests like systolic-time intervals, phonocardiography (using amplified sound to detect abnormal heart sounds), and detailed physical examination. Treatment for heart attack involved nitroglycerin and extended bedrest. Bypass surgery would come after you recovered.

In other words, NONE of the tools we now use in the Track Your Plaque program for heart disease control and reversal were available just twenty years ago. There was no lipoprotein testing, no CT heart scans. Nobody recognized the power of omega-3 fatty acids (although epidemiologic observations were just beginning to suggest that eating fish might be the source of reduced risk for heart attack and cardiovascular death). Vitamin D? Why, that's in your milk so your babies don't get rickets.

So much of what we do today was not available then, nor were they even in the crystal ball of forward-looking people. I certainly had no idea whatsoever that I'd be talking and obsessing today about reversal of heart disease based on what I saw and learned back then.

Things have certainly come a long way and all for the better. The problem is that much of the world is stuck in 1985 and haven't yet heard that coronary disease is a manageable and reversible process. They've been sidetracked by the fiction propagated by the likes of Dr. Dean Ornish, the nonsense of low-fat diets aided and abetted by the food manufacturing industry and the USDA, the extravagant claims of some practitioners and the supplement industry. They haven't yet stumbled on the real-life experiences that are chronicled here in this Blog and the accompanying Track Your Plaque website.

Our program has been criticized for being too "high-tech," involving too many sophisticated measures like small LDL, lipoprotein(a) treatment, vitamin D blood levels. But when you see a woman reduce her heart scan score 63%, or a school principal's score plummet 51%, then that's reward in itself.

It's all about plaque

Just to keep my finger on the pulse of what is being said in the world of heart disease by the media, I subscribe to many publications.

Conversations abound about cholesterol, low-fat diets, now low-carb diets, not smoking, inflammation, etc. No doubt, these all have some importance in the conversation.

But the great majority of discussions fail to identify the one truly crucial factor to identify and track: coronary atherosclerotic plaque.

Sugar for breakfast

We were reviewing Stuart's diet because of his persistent small LDL, low HDL, modestly elevated triglycerides, and blood sugar of 107 mg/dl.

"I've changed my diet, doc. No kidding. We never fry our foods. No butter, no goodies. I don't know what else I can possibly do."

"Okay. Let's review your diet. What did you have for breakfast?"

"Orange juice, a big glass. Gotta get my potassium. Then cereal like Cheerios or Shredded Wheat, sometimes Kashi or Raisin Bran, always in skim milk. Gotta have my one slice of toast, no butter. I'll put some fruit preserves on it. You know, real fruit. Only whole wheat bread, never white. On Sundays, we always go out for pancakes, but now we order only whole wheat."

Many of us have gotten into a peculiar habit: Having what amounts to pure sugar for breakfast. Perhaps there's a little fiber thrown in with it, but many people indulge in breakfasts that are sugar and plenty of it. That's precisely what Stuart is doing: A breakfast that, while it doesn't contain a huge amount of sugar outside of the orange juice, is promptly converted to sugar. If we were to check his blood sugar just after his standard breakfast, it would rise substantially.

This pattern has become deeply ingrained into the American psyche. Some people will act like I've suggested we overthrow the government when I suggest that breakfast cereals need to be eliminated from their lives. We all share memories of Tony the Tiger, the leprechaun on Lucky Charms ("They're magically delicious!), reading the brightly colored boxes often including games and prizes. Breakfast cereals seem as American as apple pie. But the wheat and corn content ensures a big rise in blood sugar, the sort that create small LDL, low HDL, etc.--all the patterns Stuart is showing--and make us fat.

Orange juice? Too much sugar all at once. Get your potassium from whole vegetables and fruits, not from orange juice. (Bananas are another problem source of potassium for similar reasons despite being a whole fruit.)

Toast? Any diabetic who monitors their blood sugar after meals will tell you: Even one slice of bread, ANY bread, skyrockets blood sugar. Add the fruit preserves made with sugar syrup and it's doubly worse.

Pancakes? Even if made with plenty of fiber, blood sugars go absolutely berserk after a meal like this, especially if maple syrup is added.

In other words, the seemingly healthy breakfast Stuart eats guarantees that he fails to control all his patterns that contribute to his coronary plaque growth.

After I pointed out Stuart's dietary faux pas, he asked, "Then what the heck can I eat?"

"There's actually lots of good choices: Eggs (preferably free-range, if available, or the 'omega-3' enriched) or Egg Beaters; oat products, but true oat products like slow-cooked oatmeal, or the best of all, oat bran, used as a hot cereal; ground flaxseed as a hot cereal with added fruit, berries, nuts; a handful of raw almonds, walnuts, pecans; some cheese, preferably traditional fermented cheese and not processed; low-fat cottage cheese; low-fat yogurt that you flavor yourself with berries and nuts; raw seeds like sunflower and pumpkin.

"Try and save some of your dinner foods for breakfast. For instance, save some green peppers and onions from your salad and put it in your scrambled eggs along with some olive oil. Save some of the chicken and add it to your breakfast. Save some of the cooked vegetables and have them as they are. You'll be surprised how filling dinner foods can be when eaten for breakfast."

It's not that tough. But Stuart and many other people need to break the hold that the food manufacturers have created. If you're hoping to seize hold of your heart scan score, get rid of the sugar foods in your morning, even the ones cleverly disguised as healthy.

The Low-Carb Man

If ever there was an enthusiastic disciple of deceased Dr. Robert Atkins of Atkins' Diet fame, it's Mr. Jimmy Moore.








Jimmy tells the story of how he was transformed by the Atkins' approach, losing 180 lbs in the course of one year. He continues to develop this conversation, in many ways elaborating on the conversation in more sophisticated ways than even Atkins did in his lifetime.

Though we've agreed to disagree on some points of nutrition, Jimmy and I had a recent discussion about heart disease, the mis-guided ways of conventional cardiac care,and the evils of processed carbohydrates. We do differ on the role of saturated fat in heart disease and health, but beyond that difference I was impressed (reading his Blog and listening to his many webcasts) with his level of understanding of the issues. Jimmy is not some over-enthusiastic dieter. He has a grasp of the issues that exceeds that of 99% of my colleagues.

If you are interested in reading our discussion or just perusing a really fun, informative Blog/website, go to LivinLaVidaLowCarb.com. The interview is posted at:

http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2007/08/davis-wanna-cut-plaque-in-your-arteries.html


See Jimmy Moore's before and after pictures at http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2005/07/my-before-pictures.html. He's quite an entertaining read.

Why average cholesterol values can be so bad

Jack had been told again and again that there was absolutely nothing wrong with his cholesterol panel. His numbers:

Total cholesterol 198 mg/dl

LDL cholesterol 119 mg/dl--actually below the national average (131 mg/dl).

HDL 48 mg/dl--actually above the average HDL for a male (42 mg/dl).

Triglycerides 153 ng/dl--right at the average.


So his primary care physician was totally stumped when Jack's heart scan revealed a score of 410.


Lipoprotein analysis (NMR) told an entirely different story:

LDL particle number 1880 nmol/l (take off the last digit to generate an approximate real LDL, i.e., 188 mg/dl).

Small LDL 95% of all LDL particles, a very severe pattern.

A severe excess of intermediate-density lipoprotein (218 nmol/l), suggesting that dietary fats are not cleared for 24 hours or so after a meal.

And those were just the major points. In other words, where conventional cholesterol values, or lipids, failed miserably, lipoprotein analysis can shine. The causes for Jack's high heart scan score become immediately apparent, even obvious. Jack's abnormalities are relatively easy to correct--but you have to know if they're present before they can be corrected. A shotgun statin drug approach could only hope to correct a portion of this pattern, but would unquestionably fail to fully correct the pattern.

As I've said before, standard cholesterol testing is a fool's game. You can squeeze a little bit of information out of them, but there's so much more information that can be easily obtained through lipoprotein testing like Jack had.

Cholesterol trumps heart scan?

Lela's heart scan score: 449--very high for a 49-year old, peri-menopausal woman. Her score placed her flat in the 99th percentile, or the worst 1% of women her age.

Lela first consulted her primary care physician. Her doctor looked at the result puzzled. "Now wait a minute. Your cholesterol numbers have been great." After a pause, her doctor (a woman) declared the heart scan wrong. "Tests aren't perfect. The heart scan is simply wrong. I'm going to believe the cholesterol numbers and there's no way you have heart disease."

Is that right? Can cholesterol numbers trump your heart scan score? Can the heart scan simply be wrong?

The answer is simple: NO.

The heart scan is not wrong. The heart scan is right. What is wrong with this picture is that standard cholesterol testing commonly and frequently fails to identify people at risk for heart disease.

What if this woman smoked? That wouldn't be revealed in her cholesterol panel. Or had high blood pressure, increased inflammatory responses like C-reactive protein, had increased small LDL or lipoprotein(a), was severely deficient in vitamin D? None of that would be revealed by cholesterol numbers.

So, no, the heart scan is not wrong. The cholesterol numbers are not wrong. The doctor's interpretation of the data is wrong.

Please do not allow false reassurances offered by those who do not understand the technology steer you wrong.

This woman proved to have an entire panel of hidden causes of her coronary plaque uncovered. No surprise.

Boycott LabCorp

Track Your Plaque Members have been following this conversation on the Track Your Plaque Forum.

A good number of people have had their blood drawn for NMR lipoprotein analysis through laboratories operated by the Laboratory Corporation of American, or LabCorp. When the results were returned, the very important page 2 of the report was withheld. Many of us have communicated with the company, only to be given some corporate-speak about internal policy.

I have personally expressed my dissatisfaction, my outrage, at this silly policy. Why would laboratory results that you or your insurance paid for be denied to you? It is my understanding that, on request, you are legally entitled to the information. The page 2 information is provided by the laboratory (Liposcience, Inc.) that actually performs the testing. LabCorp does nothing more than draw the blood, prepare the specimen, then convey and dilute the results that Liposcience reports to them.

My personal suspicion is that the LabCorp people do this to 1) make the results appear that they actually performed the tests and not farmed to an outside laboratory (Liposcience), and 2) not further confuse and befuddle the bungling primary care physician who barely understands cholesterol issues to begin with. "LDL, HDL, triglycerides . . . What now--a bunch of new information, bars even!?

To me, this LabCorp policy is criminal. In fact, I wonder if this has the substance to justify a class action lawsuit against LabCorp. I believe that we can easily make a case that crucial health information is being systematically denied to people.

If this has affected you, or if you share in the frustration of many people who have had watered down lipoprotein results provided, write to:


Ken Younts, VP of Sales at LabCorp. Yountsk@labcorp.com


Or, write to:

Tom MacMahon
Chairman of the Board

David P. King
President and Chief Executive Officer

Laboratory Corporation of America Holdings
358 South Main Street
Burlington, NC 27215



Thanks to the Track Your Plaque Members who have already participated in this campaign and written to the LabCorp people. And thanks to our Members who uncovered the contact information.

Until then, please BOYCOTT LABCORP LABORATORIES. Please do not use LabCorp Laboratories if you can avoid it. Simply ask the laboratory staff who operates the lab and they should tell you. It is your right to know.

Useless low-fat diets

If you would like to read an ironic testimonial to the futility of conventional low-fat diets, read:

Cutting Cholesterol, an Uphill Battle on the New York Times website at http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/health/21brod.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=health&adxnnlx=1187928650-f0mfyzGTFdsLmtInHcGPUw

In this story, author and columnist Jane Brody recounts her struggles with her cholesterol levels. She describes how she followed an increasingly strict low-saturated fat diet, hoping to reduce LDL cholesterol. But she saw the opposite occur: LDL climbed from an initial 134 to 171, a level that caused her doctor to prescribe a statin drug.

Yet she states that "About 85 percent of the cholesterol in your blood is made in your body. The remaining 15 percent comes from food. But by reducing dietary sources of saturated fats and cholesterol and increasing consumption of cholesterol-fighting foods and drink, you can usually lower the amount of harmful cholesterol in your blood."

Had Ms. Brody and her doctor been just a bit better informed and performed lipoprotein analysis instead, they would have seen some obvious phenomena:

--All the increase in LDL was in the fraction of small particles, the sort highly likely to cause heart attack.

--The conventional LDL that she quotes is a calculated value that miserably misrepresents the real LDL when actually measured. Her calculated LDL of 171 mg/dl, in fact, was probably more like 220 to 250 mg/dl--much higher than they think.


Of course, Ms. Brody turns to her conventionally-thinking physician who then predictably prescribes a statin drug.

Ms. Brody's well-articulated story achieves the ironic, unintended result of proving the idiocy of the conventional low-fat diet. The low-fat diet, as currently practiced by most people, raises LDL cholesterol and escalates risk for heart disease. In fact, Ms. Brody probably increased her risk far more than suggested by a 30 mg increase in LDL.

One of my favorite blogs, the Fanatic Cook, has a tremendously insightful post on Ms. Brody's misadventures.

If all she did was eliminate all wheat flour containing products and reduce the overall glycemic index of her diet, she would witness an enormous drop in LDL cholesterol, both calculated and measured.

I hope that Ms. Brody survives her diet mistakes and her doctor's ignorance.
Chocolate Bomb Bars

Chocolate Bomb Bars

These healthy bars will blast you with chocolate from several directions!

Look for cacao nibs in health food stores, Whole Foods Market, or at nuts.com. If unavailable, the bars are still delicious without them.



These bars contain around 4-5 grams "net" carbs per bar, well within the tolerance for most people.

Yields approximately 10 bars

1 cup ground almonds
2 tablespoons coconut flour
1 tablespoon unsweetened cocoa powder
1/2 cup cacao nibs
1/2 cup unsweetened shredded coconut
2 ounces 85-90% cocoa chocolate, finely chopped
3/4 cup raw pumpkin or sunflower seeds
Sweetener equivalent to 3/4 cup sugar
2 tablespoons almond butter
1/4 cup coconut milk
2 tablespoons coconut oil or cocoa butter (food grade)

Preheat oven to 200 degrees F. Lay sheet of parchment paper on large baking pan.

In large bowl, combine ground almonds, coconut flour, cocoa powder, cacao nibs, coconut, chocolate bits, pumpkin seeds, and sweetener (if dry) and mix.

In microwave-safe bowl or in small sauce pan, add almond butter, coconut milk, and coconut oil and sweetener (if liquid) and heat for 15 second increments in microwave until liquid, but not hot. If using stove, heat at low-heat enough to make liquid easily mixed, but not hot.

Pour liquid into dry almond mixture and mix together thoroughly. If too stiff, add water one tablespoon at at time until the consistency of thick dough.

Spoon out approximately 1 1/2-inch balls, shaping with the spoon and/or your hands into bar shapes.

Bake for 35 minutes. Remove and cool.

Comments (4) -

  • Stevie

    7/21/2012 6:24:37 PM |

    I make these often. I do not bother with the shaping of little balls. I put them on parchment paper, flat like pizza dough. Then after baking, cooling, I slice into small bar sizes.

    Smile

  • Low Carb Master

    8/6/2012 6:57:42 AM |

    Wow, this is a simple low carb recipe. My girlfriend likes to bake and I like to cook low carb. I think this will be a great edition to our recipe book. Thanks!

  • steve Kreloff

    11/10/2012 7:55:42 PM |

    Could you recommend any energy bars that I can purchase in a store? I am a distance runner and like to eat an energy bar before a long run. Any suggestions? Thanks.

    Steve Kreloff

  • sweetmack

    12/7/2012 7:32:11 PM |

    I should have read the comments above before I made these. Mine look like short fat hot dogs. Really tasty if you like chocolate. I like the pumpkin seeds as they make it kind of chunchy. I refrigerated them and they seem to store well that way.

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