Dear Dr Davis,

A little off topic, but I take a good fish oil omega-3 supplement and I eat a lot of fish too (wild and therefore organic), but I've been finding disturbing reports on the net that omega-3s and fish are not so good for us after all because the oils are very easily oxidised in the body, and I'm wondering if you could comment sometime please. Here are some links about the 'dangers' of fish oil:

http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/6/19/fish-oil-or-not.html

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search?q=fish+oil

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml

Anne

I guess there's no free link? Couldn't see it on the Lab's website.

Even if it wasn't better, some things definitely taste better, so the premium is apparent.

The problem with organic blueberries (for me) is simply finding them. Seems nobody locally sells organic blueberries.

As for fish oil, oxidation is a potential issue, but hopefully vitamin E protects against that. There could be a concern though with very large dosing, or bad fish oils. It'd be interesting to see more krill oil vs fish oil studies, testing oxidation, lipid changes, plaque reduction, etc. Krill would, seemingly, avoid some of the oxidation problems fish oil may have.

I would also be interested if Dr. David considered writing an article about oxidized cholesterol in the future, as it seems to get ignored a lot. But if fish oils did increase oxidized cholesterol in the body to such an extent as to increase plaque, I'd think he would have seen it by now, since most of his patients are probably taking fish oil.

Dr Davis, I have been reading alot about blueberries and their power to lower LDL cholesterol. But we just went over the fructose and how bad that is for the cholesterol. Am I missing something special with the blueberries? I know they are high in Vitamin C and K, but is that it? I feel like I don't know what to believe regarding blueberries. Thankful for a reply. Regards, Helena

Hi, Helena--

Blueberries are, on the whole, good. They have a wonderful complement of flavonoids and other nutrients.

But, too much of a good thing . . . Then the fructose gets you. So, a modest quantity is good, just as in many other foods.

Anne-

The fact remains: Large clinical studies that have looked at cardiovascular events and mortality, such as GISSI-Prevenzione, have demonstrated significant reductions.

I agree that we must always question "conventional" wisdom. But sometimes conventional wisdom is correct.

From what I understand, wild blueberries are higher in anthocyanins than are the standard blueberries. Wild blueberries are smaller in diameter than the standard.

In southern California, Trader Joe's carries wild blueberries at a good price -- about $2.99 for 16 ozs. Indeed, TJ's has a good selection of berries at a good prices.

http://www.wildblueberries.com/

This website that Anne posted - http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml - raises some pretty frightening concerns about supplemental fish oils, and he includes references to studies that seem to confirm some of his points.

Dr. Davis, have you had anopportunity to read his comments, and if yes, what is your thinking about his allegations?

Thank you.

Tom

Hi Dr. Davis,

Do you ever see patients that have a zero calcium score? I'm just wondering if your diet/lifestyle advice applies as well for prevention as it does for your sample of patients.  

Thanks,
David

Where can one find this study? Were both blueberries the same species?

I've wondered if the smaller wild blueberries had more skin and thus more flavinoids?

Tom, if anything the risks of Omega-3 fatty acids might outweight their benefits in a select few: exceptionally healthy people with no risk factors whatsoever. (And never forget that dosis sola venenum facit.)
I guess it certainly does not apply to Dr. Davis' patients and probably not to most of us.

There may be pros and cons of taking high or moderate doses of fish oil but that is to be expected, isn't it? It's a matter of risk:benefit ratios. If large interventional trials show a mortality benefit in certain populations, then we can be sure of it.

I've planned to read up on the issue of O-3 and those purpoted risks for quite some time (but haven't, so take my opinion FWIW).

I expect this will come up in the upcoming report on Anthocyanins, but a recent study has shown some nice lipid improvements using approx the equivalent to a cup of blueberries --

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajcn.2009.27814v1
http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/08/anthocyanins-from-berries-increase-hdl.html

The study used an extract, so they seemingly got around the fructose issue. But I think the benefits of blueberries would outweigh the relatively low levels of fructose anyway. It's really the only affordable way to get enough anthocyanins to match the study, until some pharmaceutical company gets wind of it, I guess. *Black Currant/Blueberry pills ala Lovaza*

Anne,

I've read the blog posts from both Hyperlipid and Panu you've provided.  I think Peter at Hyperlipid raises some very interesting questions, but I'm really not prepared to get carried away with panic.  First, I think it's very important to keep in mind that the study Peter cites had the subjects consuming 30 ml of fish oil per day.  Total omega-3 content alone was in the neighborhood of 15 ml, if I recall correctly.  This is an enormous dose!  Furthermore, Peter makes the point that this is probably only an issue with concurrent consumption of excessive carbs and/or alcohol (and excessive omega-6, one suspects...), perhaps thus explaining why Eskimo on a traditional diet do not experience hepatic steatosis, etc... at such high levels of omega-3 intake.  As for the "raypeat" article you've provided, I can only say that I've checked out two of the papers he cites, and was left a bit puzzled.  For instance, the issue of liver toxicity he mentions (I first followed this issue based on the concern Peter @ hyperlipid raised) refers to a study using a rabbit model.  Very interesting, but it's critical to ask just how much fish oil you can force-feed a herbivore before something horrible happens.  We've seen very wrong and enduring dietary advice arise from studies using rabbit models before (ie the lipid hypothesis), so I say, let's not jump to conclusions.  The second study raypeat points us to "Mechanisms for the serum lipid-lowering effect of n-3 fatty acids" really doesn't have much to say about deleterious effects, as far as I can see.  Here's a quote for you: "The finding that n-3 fatty acids are transported from the liver as ketone bodies to a larger extent than n-6 fatty acids may thus explain that a high intake of n-3 fatty acids is not accompanied with hepatic steatosis."

I'll keep reading up in the meanwhile.  This is a pretty fascinating subject to me.

Oh, and I like my blueberries!  Lots of tasty organic options in the SF Bay Area.  I think Michael Pollan mentioned in one of his books that wild and organically raised plants tend to have a much higher antioxidant content because they're left to their own devices, having to fend for themselves rather than rely on the crutch of insecticides to protect them...

Kind regards,

Van Rensselaer

I forgot to say that Aronia, aka "chokeberry" is supposedly loaded with anthocyanins.  I've bought the juice from Trader Joe's before.  It's not very sweet at all and is astringent like unsweetened 100% cranberry juice.  Maybe an ideal candidate?  Low in sugar, high in anthocyanins.


Van Rensselaer

To the risks of O-3s... I understand that some genetic variants are linked to these risks.  I would very much like to know the good Doc's opinion on genetic testing and variation, and how it affects they way we metabolize certain nutrieints.  Perhaps there is no "one diet fits all" solution, but rather a "one diet fits a genotype."

Hello Readers and Dr. Davis,

Let me try to clear up what may be a little confusion regarding the USDA organic vs conventional blueberry results for phenolic profile, total anthocyanins, and the ORAC value of each. Firstly, organic blueberries are grown and harvested from the wild and although they do get some management, they are supremely adapted to their cold northern environment and fare well enough left alone and are are "organic" by default (some managers do apply fertilizers and set fires for weed control). These wild northern bluberries are Vaccinium angustifolium. On the other hand, "conventional" blueberries are generally more southerly tetraploid and hexaploid species, Vaccinium corymbosum and V. ashei and interspecific hybrids developed for the fresh market and the emphasis on uniform, dry scar fruit with pleasing color and shelf life to withstand the rigors of the food system. The wild types have far more phenols and anthocyanins located just under their skins on a per gram basis than modern cultivars of V corymbosum and relatives. However, they also do not stand up well to the logistics of shipping fresh to millions of retail outlets and tend to "bleed" anthocyanin when disturbed. For this reason, most are canned or frozen. The point is that USDA did not really segregate their data properly if it was not a straight comparison between like species and known environments. Comparing V. angustifolium from Maine or Canada with V. corybosum used for the fresh market for these constituents does not give a clear picture that "organic" techniques automatically infer higher concentrations of components desirable for human consumption than "conventional" cropping. There is much more going on than production techniques and these conclusions do not hold as a consequence of technique when applied to the exact same cultivar. I work on the genetic improvement of blueberry and other small fruits so I have a bit of experience with this. If you want the antioxidants of blueberries on a year-round basis, buy the Dole frozen wild blueberries. BTW, I don't work for Dole. Hope this helps. Thanks.

Robert C. Richardson, Ph.D.

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How much would one need to take to achieve this?

Mercury interferes with 5'-deiodinase and is often an under-appreciated factor.

I live in Hawaii where I believe there exists a subtle thyroid or metabolic down regulation as an adaptive compensation for the constant warm ambient temperature.
Cold adaption is known to enhance metabolism to keep warm.  The body seems to either be in a phase of maintaining body warmth, warming up by enhancing metabolism  [brown fat, shivering] or tending to cool down by down regulating metabolism to be more able to dissipate heat, not overheating.   This concept is supported by the extreme cold sensitivity seen when the temperature drops below 70 degrees F.

"The tough part: Finding a prescriber for your T3."

My doctor refuses to do anything since my TSH level is "normal" despite the additional symptoms I've told her... says I'm being hypochondriac, yet has no problems prescribing statins and other useless and expensive drugs that I don't need..

So, what does you do if your doc won't prescribe or even test correctly, and other local docs are not accepting any more patients, and it particularly doesn't matter who you go to anyway, as you have no insurance?

Hi Dr. Davis! About iodine:

What do you think about Ray Peat's comment? ( http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm )

"Mary Shomon: Do you think the majority of people with hypothyroidism get too much or too little iodine? Should people with hypothyroidism add more iodine, like kelp, seaweeds, etc.?

Dr. Ray Peat: 30 years ago, it was found that people in the US were getting about ten times more iodine than they needed. In the mountains of Mexico and in the Andes, and in a few other remote places, iodine deficiency still exists. Kelp and other sources of excess iodine can suppress the thyroid, so they definitely shouldn't be used to treat hypothyroidism."

Strange guy... If I understand what he's writing, he tells that all the PUFA (fish oil also) is toxic, that we shouldn't consume protein containing much tryptophan and cysteine and that high serotonin causes problems... And that fructose isn't bad.

He keeps telling strange things but usually with very long reference lists... Strange o_O

Is there an OTC T3 supplement? Would the product Atomidine work?
As Always - Thank you!

Dr. Davis,

Does kelp help boost thyroid?  I would love to find a doctor like you in my neck of the woods.

Thanks for a great blog,
Tonya

I remain undecided on what the ideal dose of iodine should be. While I am personally "experimenting" with a 12,500 microgram per day preparation, I generally suggest 500-1000 mcg per day. I suggest kelp because it provides a mixture of iodine forms.

For T3, the dose depends on your level, sensitivity, and perhaps your level of reverse T3. I usually have people start 10-12.5 mcg per day, since this is how it comes. Alternatively, T3 can be part of an Armour or Naturethroid type preparation, now that they are back on the market.

Concerning the appropriate level of T3 supplementation, my own endocrinologist, Dr. Kenneth Blanchard, has more experience with T3 than almost any other physician I'd imagine (that's one of the reasons I chose him). I'd suggest to Dr. Davis and anyone else interested to read his book if you have not already done so:

http://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Doctor-About-Hypothyroidism/dp/0446690619/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272227891&sr=8-1

In his book, he suggests what most doctors using T3 would consider a very low dose: approximately 2% of the hypothyroid patient's T4 dose (by contrast, Armour Thyroid contains, I believe, more like 20% T3). Since then, he has concluded from experience with how patients feel that the optimal dose tends be even lower, approximately 1.5% of the T4 dose. But he says it does seem to vary quite a bit from person to person.

He generally uses compounded, time-release thyroid extract (Armour), or sometimes synthetic T3, formulated to provide the desired T3 dose. He has found most people do better using the extract, presumably because of T2 and/or other compounds present.

He has a new book coming out soon which will explain his methods in greater detail after treating thousands of hypothyroid patients with combined T4/T3 therapy.

By the way, I recently started experimenting with seaweed consumption and have been able to reduce my T4 dose by >30%, which is apparently highly unusual. I am now (with the help of a holistic physician) experimenting with pharmaceutical iodine supplements (Iodoral, 12.5 mg per day) to see if further progress can be made. Dr. Guy Abraham and a few other doctors who believe in high dose iodine supplementation often use even higher doses, 50 mg or more, but only with regular lab monitoring, most importantly a 24 hour urine iodine loading test.

My organic Egg-land's Best Eggs list "iodine" 40% per egg. I was very surprised to see this since most eggs don't mention iodine. I love eggs (unfortunately have no access to free running eggs but switch among the organic ones) and easily eat 2 a day - sometimes more. Do you consider this another good and safe alternative source?

Is there a list of docs who would be willing to prescribe T3? I think Dr. Blanchard is in my area, but from my understanding, he does not take insurance, so the cost is prohibitive.

My hubby is using a OTC dessicated thyroid supplement as a replacement, since his tests are in "normal" range but his body temp is very low (96) and he gains weight easily on the slightest bit of carbs.  So we decided to try it, given all we've heard.  It has really made a difference in him, he has energy when he used to be sluggish, and his weight holds steady when he takes it. Does this have the "T3" you are referring to?

I started 5 micrograms synthetic T3 about a month ago.  My hypo symptoms are slightly better, but I am disappointed. I expected more improvement.

I was experimenting with iodine drops prior to starting T3. I titrated up from 500 micrograms to 12 milligrams/day over 2 months and then ordered Iodoral. I decided not take it due to the new T3 prescription as I did not want to start 2 new therapies at once. Do you think I should start Iodoral now or wait longer?

I recently read on STTM [http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin/] that ferretin levels should be greater than 50 for adequate T4 -> T3 conversion. My level was 11 (considered normal by the lab). I am considering an iron supplement for 3 months.

Yeah, a friend of mine saw Dr. Blanchard.. did not have much luck with him. He's too conservative.

I have struggled with weight loss since my 20's
T3 sounds great to aid in  weight loss.
I would be interested to hear what people think about optimizing thyroid with lower insulin levels.
since low carb diet=low insulin diet
How about discussing Metformin for insulin control for a synergistic effect for weight loss. There is some interesting research using this med in non diabetics.

People can check out the doctor finder feature upon Armour's website, if they are seeking a doctor who may prescribe T3.

Once concern I have regarding supplementing T3 regards longevity, as animal (and some human) studies show lower T3 in the elderly = longer lifespan.

I'm curious if Is there any longterm longevity data in people who supplement T3 vs those who don't -- excluding those with definite thyroid disease.

There are many websites and forums dedicated to treating reverse T3 hypothyroid syndrome.  The treatment is T3 only.  There are legal ways to obtain T3 without a prescription and self-treat.  I am currently taking 50mcg per day, and I have seen great improvements in hypothyroid symptoms. I did, by the way, try the traditional route first and was told by different doctors that my thyroid levels were all "normal" despite increasing fatigue and low body temperatures.  Now my temperatures are up to 98.6 average and I feel SO much better.

Anonymous--

Can you tell us more about how you got the T3 without a prescription?

(Remember: This is anonymous. I'm not tracking your IP address or anything.)

Dr. Davis-

I originally found the information about how to treat T3 from two websites that were mentioned in the comments section of Dr. Eades' blog:

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/
www.thyroid-rt3.com/

There is a forum affiliated with the second website that you can find at the bottom of the page.  If you join this forum, you can find sources for T3.  There is absolutely no cost to joining the forum, and nothing is asked of you.  The moderators are just regular people who have been through the medical maze and come up with a protocol that works for them.  

The focus of this forum is not taking T3 for weight loss, but using it to heal a damaged thyroid.  The ultimate goal for many (myself included) is to restore a normal metabolism and come off of T3.

After moving to Hilo, Hawaii my foot pain episodes occurred more frequently. I learned that lots of people in Hilo had similar symptoms and they told me it was gout. After researching the ailment, I was convinced my painful foot episodes were the result of gout attacks and not due to me being flat footed. Just to be sure, I had a blood test which confirmed that I had high levels of euric acid in my blood.Gout is caused by high levels of euric acid in the blood that forms crystals, usually in or near joints. Feet and hands are the most common place that the crystals form and in my case, they formed next to my big toe making walking nearly impossible. The long thin crystals act like needles and cut into the tissue and bone so that even touching the spot can cause intense pain. Since euric acid is not very soluble in water, it is hard to get the crystals to dissolve. Repeated attacks can cause long term damage to the joints and tissue.

Can 7-keto help this? I have Hashi's, am iodine sensitive - I can't take a multi-vitamin with iodine because it causes my thyroid to swell. My T3 totals are low (102, 109, etc. in a range of 76-181). I'm having an extremely difficult time losing the 22 pounds I put on since this started 2 years ago. I am on synthroid but my doctor won't prescribe any T3. I've read that 7-keto will help but not increase the T3 out of range. I'm too scared to self-treat!

Yeah, finding a prescriber is the hard part. I've talked to a few doctors. Every single one is *totally opposed* to any sort of treatment other than Synthroid and its clones.

I asked a research pathologist friend about your notions re T3, etc. He replies...

"Several problems, although superficially it all makes sense.
1. I likely am incorrect, but T3 is available only as an iv injectable (in UK, Australia). Furthermore, it is short acting, so theoretically you might need more than one injection/day.
2. T4 (thyroxine) or T3 bind to proteins in blood (99%) and only a small amount (<1%) is the free T3, which is the biologically active hormone. The bound and the free form are in equilibrium with each other. So if you take T3 or T4, it will go and bind to proteins (ie, inactive), and only a small constant amount of free hormone is available for action.
3. T4 converts to T3 (via deiodination), so why not take the cheaper T4?
4. T3/T4 therapy might work for a short while, but then your body will become used to it and endogenous hormones will be secreted in lesser amounts, so that the final amount of free hormone available to you will be more or less what you secrete now. This is because of something known as "feedback inhibition", ie high levels of T3/T4 will reduce the secretion of TSH, which will reduce endogenous T3/T4 secretion.
5. You could, of course, overpower the body's feedback inhibition loop, by taking excess amounts of hormones, but then you will stress your heart etc. There is a theory which says everyone is born with a given number of heart beats (similar to the idea that women have a given number of ova), you can use your quota pretty quickly with excess T3. Reduction of weight will occur, but at a price.
6. There is a lot of deiodinase in the body, the only time there is not enough is when someone is sick or has liver disease, but its not a consideration for most people.

So yes, it might prove difficult to find a prescriber..."

As always, I appreciate your blog and its included insights. Thank you!

Hi, David--

I think your research pathologist friend should probably stick to researching pathology.

I take oral T3 as liothyronine, since it was temporarily out of supply as Armour or Naturethroid.

Perhaps he is relying on a textbook copyrighted 1984.

Thank you, Dr Davis

Over the course of a few weeks recently, I read all your posts on this site. You offer a heck of a lot of excellent information. I appreciate that you repeat many topics; e.g., niacin, its attendant flush, and how to deal with it.

I also appreciate that you are on the leading, but not bleeding, edge on health topics. An example: my doctor  bemoaned the sorry state of my D3 level and I was befuddled: "But I ingest 1500IU/day!" She suggested an endocrinologist... and THEN I read your post re tablet D3 vs gel capsule. I corrected my error immediately, and now I cannot wait to re-test my D3 level.

Which brings me to my question. After reading all your posts, I find that you do not collate all your recommendations into one post or FAQ. Such an item would be helpful for all your readers. Which specific lab tests should I, or any reader, request?

And returning to this post, I assume no doctor will prescribe T3 -- without first testing your thyroid levels. Whether high, low, or perfect, what is the appropriate dosage of T3 to achieve the results you indicate?

Thank you!

Anonymous is correct that http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/ is a very good resource.  There is a Yahoo! group associated with that web site for rT3 problems specifically and an associated group for adrenal issues.  

I have an rT3 problem.  I've done very well on 100 mcg T3 per day and no T4 at all.  This was after getting cortisol sorted out and it took several months to titrate to my current dose.  

By temperature, bp and pulse, this is an appropriate dose for me.  And yes, I have lost weight on it, without really trying - as when disabled, weight loss is pretty low on the list of priorities.  I lost 17 lbs the first two months, and have no idea since then as I don't have a scale.  

It's not FOR weight loss.  It certainly helps weight loss, as trying to lose when low on T3 is an uphill battle.  But I don't think it's appropriate to say it's FOR weight loss.  T3 is for treating hypothyroidism... and IMNSHO, no other use is appropriate.

That being said, I have a much looser definition of hypothyroidism than most doctors.  Most people feel best and achieve normal temperatures with FT3 near or just over the top of the range if on both T3 and T4 as with natural thyroid; those on T3 only tend to do best at quite a bit over the FT3 range (you need more T3 when T4 is totally suppressed as when treating rT3).  

Where Anonymous is a bit off is the legality of self-treatment.  It's a fuzzy area.

Self-treatment can be done, as it's legal to import 3 months of medications from an international pharmacy for personal use.  Some of these pharmacies do not require a script, and no one from customs shows up at your house to doublecheck your prescription.  

But I think it's overstating a bit to say it's entirely legal.  It seems the assumption is you're importing stuff you have a script for; that this isn't enforced and self-treatment is possible doesn't mean it's entirely legal.

However, it's certainly not near insurmountable if you don't have a good doctor and don't mind bending the law a bit.

The NTH Yahoo! groups are very good sources of advice for those interested in self-treating.  

But it is not about just ordering some meds, I seriously doubt a moderator on any of the groups would tell you where to get even an aspirin without asking you for your labwork first.  

Hormones are serious stuff and while correcting imbalances is definitely necessary to health,  it's not something you do just to drop a few pounds more easily.

How about discussing Met forming for insulin control for a synergistic effect for weight loss. There is some interesting research using this med in non diabetics.

That T3 is so easy to get a hold of. Ive been taking it w/o a prescription for years for weight loss. Ive gone up to as much as 125mcg a day for 6 weeks of T3 for weight loss, you loose alot of muscle going that high too. I have foud that ramping off very slowly also allows your normal thyroid level to recover faster too. Always remember to "pyrmid" when using this stuff. It allows your body to adapt to it w/o shock and come off easily with no thyroid damage aswell. You wouldnt wanna be using this stuff for life now would you!

Here a little example of how i used it during the 6 weeks for weight loss-

25/25/25/25/25/50/50/50/50/50/75/75/75/75/75/100/100/100/100/100/75/75/75/75/75/50/50/50/50/50/37.5/37.5/37.5/37.5/37.5/25/25/25/25/25/12.5/12.5/

Each margin represents a day. The tabs are dosed at 25mcg each.

Dr. drugs are so easy to get a hold of now a days, a child could order meth over the internet if he knew how. Why do all you "Dr's" fail to realize that? The internet can teach you anything.

Here are a list of sites in which you can order T3. YES with out a prescription, T4 too even if you wanted too..

www.musle-man.com
www.rxhealthdrugs.com
www.spiropenttabs.com
and alot more..

And here are a list of forum boards filled with experienced body builders and trainers who can tell you how to successfully and safely use these hormones and steroids to achieve your goals.

www.elitefitness.com
www.anabolicminds.com
www.bodybuilding.com
and a whole lot more.
-just be sure to go to the sites, type in T3, or anything you wish to know, into the search bar, and you'll have all kinds of threads filled with information, pop up.

Hope i taught you guys all something usefull.

-Dr.knowitall. =)

I will manage my thyroid hormone as it is responsible for weight gain and I want to reduce my weight very soon.

www.iron-dragon.com has t3 also, very reliable.  not too sure on the other site posted here.

Nice tnx for the info...

Expert-Nutrition allows you to understand everything you need to know about nutrition, including recommended dietary intakes and what the science says about nutritional supplements. We aim to make nutrition easy to understand and will ultimately help you to make educated decisions about your diet and your health.
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I have been taking T3 for over two yrs and there is no weight loss benefits. I was on 120mcg per day and I started to develop heart palpitations and my face looked swollen. I don't think any one should be taking T3 for weight loss because it can also make you Extra hungry when taken with other meds.

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I'm a little lost... I have been walking around thinking that I have a bad thyroid with me gaining so much weight (15-20 lbs in the last 15 months)and I have a morning temp of around 96.6 F; and then today I get my test results back:

TSH 0.32
T4 FREE 1.4
(Levels that point for 'Subclinical Hyperthyroididm")
Do I stop taking Kelp supplement?
I was taking between 150-450 mcg per day for about 1 year.

Also found that my A1c was at 5.7% (slightly high)

B12 borderline low

HDL 46 (low)
LDL 139 (high)
TriG 226 (high)

And on top of that my Vitamin D has dropped from 78 last year to 40!!!

What the heck happened? Could this be related to taking synthetic hormones (birth control pill) for 11 years? (Stopped 14 months ago) Or is it just me hitting the big 30??!

Help!

www.alldaychemist.com. No I'm not an employee/owner, but a customer. This is where I get my T3, T4, and that glaucoma medicine that makes your lashes grow.

Becoming healthy should be the number one reason for losing weight - feeling beauty comes naturally after.

I really want to lose weight that is why I am reading this kind of post. I think this post is a very well written post. I love everything that is written in that article.

T3 or any form of Thyroid medicine just for weight loss is highly dangerous. I have been doing this for over a year, starting with T4 and now mixing the two (worried about RT3). Unfortunately I am suffering severe side effects, angina, breathlessness, atrial fibrillation arrhythmia and many other things, i am too scared to come off them but I have and am doing my body alot of damage, which could be fatal (I should never had started). My advise is to only take the hormones via a doctor and only if you suffer from hypo.  

Anon

I have taken both Clen, Anavar and T-3. I have seen moderate results with clen, extreme muscle mass gain with anavar, and the most leaning out and weight loss with the t-3. My only concern was that it took 4-5 months taking t-3 to lose 15 pounds and I was taking what I thought was the maximum. How can I lose 20 lbs of fat in 2-3 months and still maintain muscle? Should I switch to anavar from clen when I notice muscle loss?

Last post above by a 31 year old female that works out, eats right and wants to go from about 20% body fat down to 10% by April/May. I use to be a fitness model and have been off t-3 now for about a year, but still cycle clen. I hear alldaychemist is a good site.

I was under the impression that t4 gets converted to t3 what at the liver or cellular level? if your insulin resistant (or suffering from what some term the famine feast cycle from a history of reduced caloire diets or poor quality diets) you not converting to t3 or are t3 resistant you can be leptin resistance and insulin resistant you can be thyroid resistant to.


I would think one would need to get at the root of the problem, rather than treat the symptom, it could be caused by some chronic nutritional deficiency, regardless of cause, as long as your on the famine feast cycle (look it up) you will not lose weight permanently. nor cure metabolic syndrome or low thyroid that has no known cause.

there is a strong genetic compeonent I think some call it the thrifty gene, I call it the survival instinct myself which encompases more than just energy in and out.it encompases all metabolism, reactions to enviromental changes mental and physical adaptations and what not.

and I wouldn't be surprised if the real culprit for hypo or hyper thyroid for those not suffering a weight problem or metabolic synrdome is due to malnuturtion as well like vita d, cal, vita k, a, magnesium and other minerals defiencies.

these control the immune system dont they? maybe the genetic component is that your unable to absorb them as well and need to over compensate via taking in excess via foods.

but then I wonder about how nutritious our food really is. sure maybe the toxic enviroment may play a role like increasing the nutrient needs of the body in order to detoxify them. but I don't believe they directly cause a problem. everyone has these toxins in ther bodies in usa, but not everyone suffers health problems from it.

could be their genetic and nutritional status that determines that. but the only thing I know who takes t3 are those who suffer wilsons syndrome, stress induced reduction tha doesn't resolve itself after the stressor has past.

and then they only take it for a short time to get the body back into balance not as a weight loss tool.

Can you use T3 for weight loss w/o losing muscle?  I have a prescription for 10 mcg a day that I haven't been taking, so I can start ramping up a bit.

This is nice post thanks a lot for this great post keep posting and updating the blog.....


Smith ALan

I am on t-3/t-4 therapy for hypothyroidsim.   T-3 was added a month ago and although I feel better than I have in the past 3 years, I have had NO WEIGHTLOSS!!!  I am an active female and eat well, I bike 15 miles daily.  Confused as to why I am not seeing any results....

I was just diagnosed with hypothyroidism. My TSH was 5.4. Which is high on both the old and new scale. I weigh 384 lbs., do not sleep well, have swollen legs, and am sluggish and tired. I can loose weight when I eat right and exercise. My blood pressure and sugar are normal. I am also going for a sleep test for sleep apnea next week. Also just for info I had a ct scan just before my blood test and they did give me the contrast, (iodine). My doctor put me on t4,  25mcg per day. (levo) At the beginning of the year I started a diet and lost 50lbs in about 6 months. Then kinda got off the wagon and gained all my weight back. I was in the hospital a couple years ago and the doctors told me my sodium & potasium was really really low. Also I have access to cynomel. I am afraid to start the t4. And have some questions:
1. Is 5.4 that high for TSH? 2. What could have caused this to be so high? From everything I read it looks to me like 5.4 is very high. Why then would my doctor only put me on 25mcg? Everything I read says most people are on 75 to 125 mcg per day and their TSH is much lower than mine. 3. Should I ask my doctor to prescribe t3 also? If he will not should I start my own that I have access to? If so I would start very low dose say around 12.5 mcg along with my 25mcg of t4. 4. Could the ct scan caused my TSH to be high? Could having low sodium and potasium cause my TSH to be high? 5. Should I have another test done? Also have my t3 & t4 levels checked this time? He did not do those test the first time. I am afraid because I cannot gain any more weight! I am maxed out! My body cannot take any more. And just five pounds would be really bad. I do not want to take the t4 alone if there is any chance that I might gain additional weight. 6. One more question, is there anyway I can get my thyroid back to normal with out taking a bunch of medication? Like eating right, exercising, loosing weight. Or is the high TSH causing the weight gain? Because my diet is terrible.

Thank you.















9

Hi, Robert--

Iodine is the only way to restore thyroid function; since you got iodine-containing x-ray dye recently, it seems unlikely that iodine deficiency is at the root of it.

My personal view is that very few people should take T4 without T3--people feel better, are happier, lose weight much more effectively. The problem: the endocrinology and primary care community will fight you tooth and nail. This may sound cynical, but I attribute this to the fact that much thyroid "education" comes from the sexy sales rep who was hawking Synthroid.

Your T4 dose is low because it is wise to start gradually, else you can get hyperthyroid symptoms. Your TSH, by the way, is indeed in the hypothyroid range, sufficient to account for substantial health problems, including weight gain and heart disease.

Jenny i have found an offshore supplier from turkey of T3 (Tri-lodothyronine)  & T4 (thyroxine) i personally have bought T3 & T4 and it is Amazing, the medication manufacturer is Bitiron which are notorious for quality, Bitiron combines both T3 & T4 into one 62.5mcg (Microgram) pill, yielding 50mcg of T4 and 12.5mcg of T3, each box of 100 pill are $22, i have personally bought it and recieved within 10 days and shipping is free, they deliver through USPS and accept paypal payments for a more secure peace of mind, they also sell T3 alone, T4 is generally much weaker than T3 so usually people wont consider it for weigh loss, but what many dont know is that T4 serves as a shuttle for T3...A Normal male will intake 50mcg of T3 up to 100mcg of T3 anymore can cause hyperthyroidism which isnt healthy, i estimate a female should never excede 50mcg of T3, so taking 2 daily will yield 100mcg of T4 and 25mcg of T3 which i believe is a healthy dose for a female, when you take this medication you should always do a pyramid cycle this is where you start off with half a tab, after a week increase to one tab, after 2 weeks increase to 1.5 tabs and after 2 weeks increase to 2 tabs, and keep it steady at that rate for a while then down to 1.5 tabs for 2 weeks and 1 tab for 2 weeks then half a tab for 1 week, i suggest yout take Iodine and L-Tyrosine (Amino Acid) pill after you are finished to help the body naturally produce natural Thyroid hormones once again, NEVER stop taking the pill in the middle of the regiment and NEVER skip a dose.. please do further research to learn more about Thyroid hormone control and its weight loss benefits before doing any regiment.
(this is the website to get the T3 & T4) http://www.anabolix.eu/
or Contact the supplier directly at this email:
anabolicsteroid@hotmail.com
Please tell them Eliu Quesada Reffered you to their service, good luck and best wishes in your weight loss journey

T3 is an excellent supplement for weight loss.  I have used this in a prescription capacity and had great results.  Some sites sell this as a "research chemical".  I have a blog that discusses research chemicals however we do not sell them.  

Great article on T3 for weight loss.  You are actually the first result on Google for that term.  That is how I found you...

Thanks

Dr Davis,
1)  My thyroid was radiated twice due to Graves disease 15 years ago.  Since my thyroid is no longer functioning, would there be any benefit to taking iodine along with my synthroid and T3?  
And
2) With the Graves disease, I developed thyroid eye disease, pretibia myxedema and Acropachy. Will taking T3 effect or aggravate those conditions?

Thank you,
Lisa

Dr. Davis, I envy your patients!  I'm a post meno-hell 56 year old female who, until five years ago, has always been thin; underweight according to all height-weight charts.  Over the last 4-5 years I've gone from 110 lbs. to nearly 150!  I've always been able to cut back on intake and weight would fall off; now a normal for me day's intake is a chicken breast or fish fillet/day and a cup of hot chocolate at bedtime (skim milk).  Sure, I realize that as we age we tend to gain weight but this is way over the top and unhealthy.  I've also been suffering from virtually all hypo symptoms except no difficulty conceiving and problem periods (for obvious reasons).  I've been unemployed for years and have no health insurance so obtaining medical care is virtually impossible.  Around 2 years ago I went to a low cost clinic; they said my thyroid numbers were within normal ranges but didn't give me the numbers.  They did send my cholesterol number, OVER 300, with instructions about diet and exercise.  Not exactly news, duh.  When the lbs. really began coming I began walking/jogging 2-3 miles/day, zero weight loss.  I'm sick of freezing feet!  I was stumped about why the corners of my eyebrows have disappeared until I began researching hypo.  I've been on nearly antidepressant known to man.  I finally located a free clinic last spring.  The first Dr. I saw ordered lab work and said if it wasn't definitive he would refer me to an endo.  Drs. at the clinic rotate once/year.  When I returned I saw a different Dr.  He insisted my lab work was normal but, to shut me up, he put me on 25 mcg. of Levo.  After 3 days I felt great but it wore off within two weeks.  I returned to the clinic, the next Dr. said I'm definitely hypo and increased my dosage to 50 mcg.  He wanted to titer me up to 125.  Awesome... I thought.  No change, I was still symptomatic.  After a couple months I increased it to 75.  Despite my raging symptoms the next Dr. decreased it because my TSH was very low.  He's a resident and will be a regular at the clinic until he's finished with his residency.  And, on each visit my weight has steadily increased.  The next time I went in, my most recent visit, my weight had increased at an alarming rate.  He told me to run 6 miles/day.  When I was his age I did run, I had young knees!  I'm sick of the blame the patient game.  At the rate I'm gaining weight this woman, who has always been the skinny one, is going to weigh 200 lbs.  UNACCEPTABLE.  Clearly I'm the only person concerned about my health.  I've scrimped and saved money when possible and ordered some T3 online last week.  I'd rather die than be yet another morbidly obese American at risk for Type II diabetes.  I'm sick of freezing year round.  As I type my feet are so cold they're almost numb.  I'm scheduled to return to the clinic in a few weeks.  They never give me my numbers but this time I'll DEMAND them.  I didn't learn until November that my lab work from April did, indeed, indicate that I'm hypo.  Most patients at the clinic are poor, unsophisticated, uneducated people who don't challenge the Drs.  I'm poor too but I'm a well-informed law school graduate with top-notch research skills.  Yes, lawyers lose jobs too, age discrimination is pervasive.  I don't anticipate having begun taking my self-prescribed cytomel before my upcoming appointment.  Hope springs eternal that if I do benefit from it I will eventually be able to convince one of the rotating, overall apathetic, Drs. to prescribe it.  Ordering online will quickly become financially prohibitive if it really does help.  A little cooperation from the medical professionals sure would be helpful.

I forgot.  I've suffered from constipation since entering my 20's.  Bad pins and needles in hands and legs; arthritis since my 20's that has become much worse over the years.  Insomnia, physicians have been throwing antidepressants at me for decades.  I've been told I have a "low normal" body temp since I was a kid.  My mom was diagnosed with hypo last year at age 82 after developing an enormous goiter.  Her Dr. said she's probably been hypo for decades even though it never showed up in her labs.  The list of why I need proper treatment soon is infinite.

Wendy, I read your post and I saw myself because I share both your symptoms and your experience. I gained 50 pounds in one year and cannot get it off, although people remark that I don't eat much and they don't understand why I am 184 lbs. I am fatigued all the time, I have difficulty losing weight, I have difficulty concentrating, and yes, I have cold feet (I have to wear socks to bed in the SUMMER). I have been trying to get multiple doctors to recognize that there is something wrong with my thyroid since 2007. I have been tested so often I feel like a pin cushion, and they always tell me my numbers are normal. I ordered copies of all my lab results and I can see that the numbers are going up, and I can feel that my symptoms are getting worse. I am a biochemistry student who would like to go to medical school eventually, and I cannot afford to keep listening to doctors tell me that the problem is not my thyroid when I know that it is. I was laid off from my job and spent a large chunk of my savings on an endocrinologist who insisted that my symptoms were due to a sensitivity to wheat, although I had been tested for 100 different allergens and the results all came back negative! I could not afford to continue paying him to not give me what I asked him for, which was a 1 month trial on thyroid medication. So I did it myself. I researched online, ordered T3, and gave myself a pyramid dosing schedule. I made sure I was aware of the side effects so that I would be able to recognize when to lower my dose. About a week or two after I started T3, I felt like my old self again. I had energy, I was losing weight, and I could concentrate. When I stopped taking the T3, all of my sympoms came back and I immediately put the weight I lost back on.I have been to 3 doctors since I completed my self-administered T3 trial, and I have specifically told them that the medication made me feel better, but they told me that it was because it would make anyone feel better because, as my last doctor told me, "it's like speed." However, my own research has indicated that if you are taking a dose that is unhealthy for your body, it tends to give you headaches and heart palpitations. So obviously my body responded favorably to the T3 since I did not experience those side effects. You should go to the website that the anonymous poster listed called thyroid-RT3.com to see how to pyramid dose and you should try it and see if you feel better. Then you can go back to those doctors and tell them that the T3 made you feel better and you would like to try that. Hopefully, you will get farther than I have. I am going back on T3 on my own. I would have liked to have it monitored by a medical professional but I refuse to live the rest of my life feeling like this. Right now I'm just trying to decide how long to cycle on the T3 and how long to cycle off without making my thyroid worse.

Lisa, this is way too late but....

what a lot of nutritionists don't seem to realize is that the whole body uses iodine, not just thyroid tissue!  it is the opinion of many TRUE specialists that the RDA is way too low, also.  so unless you're a seaweed fanatic, supplementing iodine is probably a good thing -- but make sure you balance it with selenium -- the two work as a team, and people who have had problems with iodine are frequently selenium-deficient.

good luck!