Near-fatal brush with nattokinase

Here is precisely why I have spoken out against nattokinase: People may put faith in this "supplement" when there are virtually no data to support its use in such dangerous conditions as pulmonary embolism.

Pulmonary embolism occurs when a large volume of blood clots in the veins of the pelvis, abdomen, and into the legs. A clot breaks off and lodges in the pulmonary arteries of the lungs. This can be fatal within minutes to hours, the victim struggling to breathe, since oxygen is not transferred to the blood and it causes terrible pain in the chest.

The treatments are fairly obnoxious: intravenous anticoagulants (blood thinners), followed by oral blood thinners like warfarin. While they carry risk of bleeding and other long-term risks, it's better than dying.

Would you bet that a "nutritional supplement" manufacturer's vague claims and lack of data are sufficient proof to treat a life-threatening condition? You're a fool if you are.

Anyone reading these pages knows that I am a vigorous supporter of nutritional supplements. I even consult for the nutritonal supplement industry. But I am also an advocate of TRUTH, not BS.

Here is a woman from England who inquired whether she should stop her husband's warfarin in favor of nattokinase. This is precisely the sort of thing that can happen because of the campaign of misinformation behind nattokinase.


Dr. Davis,

Thank you for your very interesting blogs, which I came across searching for natural alternative treatments to warfarin.

My husband has been following the low carb, high fat, real food regime over the past few years. He got off all the blood pressure and cholesterol drugs and never felt better. He even got his blood sugar down from a recorded high that we are aware of 13 nmol/L (234 mg/dol) to 6.1 nmol/L 109.8 mg/dl).

We were on holiday in the Caribbean. Just before our return home, we did a trip to a neighbouring island that included non-alcoholic fruit punches. They tasted great, but were very sweet. I broke my normal refusal to drink these things, but only had a couple of glasses. (After all, we were on holiday!) My husband believes he consumed around 1.5 litres of the stuff and now realises he was feeding his body a very toxic product – fructose. That night, he had an incredible toxic response and we only got him onto the plane with a visit to the hospital and a pain killer injection.

The symptoms of pulmonary embolism only showed 2 weeks later . . . and warfarin treatment was started. We would both like to use an alternative therapy if we can find someone with experience to provide the support.Do you know of any studies that support alternative options?

Do you know of any practitioners in the England who support a non-drug approach with an understanding of nutrition who we may be able to receive advice and support?

FB
York, England

Glucophobia: The Novel

Just kidding: No novel here. However, there is indeed a story to tell that should scare the pants off you.

If you haven't yet gathered that carbohydrates are a macronutrient nightmare, let me recount the list:


Carbohydrates increase small LDL particles
Or, in the cholesterol-speak most people understand, "carbohydrates increase cholesterol." It's counterintuitive, but carbohydrates increase LDL substantially, far more than any fat.


Carbohydrates increase blood sugar
Eggs don't increase blood sugar, nor do chicken, raw almonds, onions or green peppers. But a bowl of oatmeal will send your blood sugar skywards.


Carbohydrates make you fat
Carbohydrates, whether in the form of wheat flour in your whole wheat bread, sucrose in your ice cream, fructose in your "organic Agave nectar," or high-fructose corn syrup in your dill pickles. They all provoke de novo lipogenesis, or fat formation. They also stimulate insulin, the hormone of fat storage.


Carbohydrates cause glycation
High blood sugar, like the kind that develops after a bowl of oatmeal, triggers glycation, or modification of proteins by glucose (blood sugar). This is how cataracts, kidney disease, and atherosclerotic plaque develop. Small LDL is 8-fold more glycation prone than large LDL, providing a carbohydrate double-whammy.


Your glucose meter remains the single best tool to gauge the quality of your diet. Many people have horror stories of the shocking experiences they've had when they finally get around to checking their postprandial glucose.

Drama with the Dr. Oz Show

A producer from the Dr. Oz show recently contacted my office. They asked whether we could supply them with a volunteer patient from either my practice or the Track Your Plaque program who would be willing to appear on the show and discuss heart disease prevention. They needed someone to commit within 24 hours.

Despite the short notice, we identified a volunteer. He flew to New York the following week where he was interviewed along with several other men and women, all of whom had heart disease (heart attacks, stents, etc.). However, as this young man is very slender and follows most of the Track Your Plaque principles (e.g., vitamin D and omega-3 fatty acid supplementation; no wheat, cornstarch, or sugars, no restriction of fat, etc.), he apparently received less attention than the overweight, I-know-nothing-about-diet interviewees.

Then there was an odd turn of events: Dr. Dean Ornish, apparently a friend of Dr. Oz, will be providing the dietary counseling. The producer had made no mention of Dr. Ornish.

Now that's an odd collision of philosophies: Our Track Your Plaque version of low-carb with the guru of low-fat, Dr. Ornish.

The following week, Dr. Ornish called me and graciously asked whether I was okay with this. I'm not sure just how much he knew about the philosophy I advocate, nor how much I have bashed his program as a destructive approach to diet, nor whether he knew that I gained 30 lbs on the Ornish diet, along with a drop in HDL to 27 mg/dl, increased triglycerides to 350 mg/dl, and type II diabetes that I've talked about on this blog and the Track Your Plaque book and website. I suspect he knew little to none of this.

Anyway, I tried to diplomatically explain that my patient's cause for coronary plaque was small LDL particles that he expressed despite his very slender build, likely from excessive carbohydrates, controlled with carbohydrate restriction. Dr. Ornish maintained his usual arguments: Grains are good, provided they are whole grains, heart disease is "reversed" with his diet program, etc. (I didn't want to challenge him in a phone call and tell him that he never actually reversed coronary plaque, but just reversed endothelial dysfunction. But, as Dr. Ornish is not a cardiologist, I wasn't sure how far his understanding of these issues went.)

We agreed to disagree. This leaves my poor patient in an odd position: Being asked by Dr. Ornish and the Dr. Oz show to follow a low-fat program for the sake of entertainment, or adhering to the advice we follow that has so far served him well, given his small LDL particle size tendencies.

We'll see where this little drama leads.

Response from Nature Made

Here's the response from Nature Made when I emailed them about my concern that there appears to be no vitamin D in their vitamin D gelcaps.

It is the usually CYA corporate-speak that says nothing. The grammatical errors make it clear that this was a "canned" response.



Date: April 9, 2010
From: Marissa Reyes, Consumer Affairs Department
Subject: Reference #346236

Dear William Davis, MD:

We recently received your e-mail regarding Nature Made products. We regret to
hear that the quality standards of our company. [?]

Our company is called Pharmavite, and we manufacture Nature Made nutritional
supplements. We have been in business since 1971. We are committed to quality
control, and have very high quality standards. Our Quality Control personnel
sample and test all raw materials as they enter our plant, and again assay the
finished product, before final packaging.

Dietary Supplements are regulated under the FDA through DSHEA (Dietary
Supplement Health & Education Act of 1994). The United States Pharmacopoeia
(USP) establishes standards for the composition of drugs and nutritional
supplements. This voluntary non governmental organization was set up in 1820
and has officially been recognized by federal law since 1906. Standards
established by USP for products are legally enforceable by the FDA. At
Pharmavite we participate in the USP Dietary Supplement Verification Program
(DSVP). Many of our products have earned the DSVP seal and additional products
are currently being evaluated. Our DSVP certified products will have the DSVP
seal on the product label.

Our Nature Made Vitamin D 400 IU tablets have been reviewed by the USP and bears
the DSVP symbol on the label. Although the USP has not reviewed all of the
Nature Made Vitamin D supplements, all of our products go through the same
rigorous quality testing at Pharmavite. The products which have earned the seal
help us to demonstrate the high quality of our products.

We would like to look into the product(s) your patients have been using. If you
could provide the UPC and lot numbers of the product(s), we will be happy to
review our records. In addition, if you would like us to test the product(s)
that you currently have, we will be pleased to send a prepaid postage mailer so
you may return the product(s) to us so that our Quality Control Department can
examine it. Please let us know if you would like us to send you the prepaid
postage mailer.

We thank you for contacting us and hope that you will continue to use and enjoy
Nature Made products with complete confidence.

Sincerely,
Marissa Reyes
Consumer Affairs Coordinator
Pharmavite, LLC
MR:346236-10



Patients who come to the office do not provide me with the bottles nor lot numbers. In past, when I've gone to the trouble of doing this (with other companies, not Nature Made), it has come to nothing helpful. The information gets passed on to the company and we hear nothing and never learn if there was a problem, or receive some more corporate-speak letter saying everything was fine. This is obviously a liability-avoidance tactic: Admitting that something was wrong would open them up to legal risk. So, frankly, I can't be bothered.

So we are left with the unsatisfying experience of relying on street-level experiences.

For now, my advice: Avoid Nature Made vitamin D. Too many people have had blood tests demonstrating that they are not obtaining any vitamin D.

By the way, the Nature Made brand of fish oil is among the very few problem brands of fish oil we've encountered. Fish oil should be only mildly fish in smell and generally should not cause stomach upset and excessive belching if properly purified. Nature Made is excessively fishy when you smell it, suggesting oxidation. We've had repeated (dozens) of patients who have experienced difficulties with this brand. Rather than dealing with the frustrating gobbledy-gook of this company, just avoid their products.

What to Eat: The diet is defined by small LDL

I approach diet from the perspective of small LDL particles.

Small LDL particles have exploded in frequency and severity in Americans. It is not at all uncommon to see 70% or more small LDL particles (i.e., 70% of total LDL particle number or Apo B) on lipoprotein testing. (I saw two people today who began with over 95% small LDL.)

Small LDL particles are:
--More likely to persist in the bloodstream longer than large LDL particles.
--More likely to adhere to components of atherosclerotic plaque.
--More likely to gain entry to plaque.
--More likely to be taken up by inflammatory white blood cells which, in turn, become the mast cells that fill coronary plaque.
--More likely to be oxidized.
--More likely to be glycated (8-fold more likely than large)

To add insult to injury, foods that trigger small LDL formation--i.e., carbohydrates--also cause high postprandial blood sugars. High postprandial blood sugars, in turn, glycate small LDL. That combination of events accelerates 1) plaque growth, 2) plaque instability, and 3) aging.

So carbohydrates trigger this sequence, carbohydrates of all stripes and colors. Not just "white" carbohydrates, but ALL carbohydrates. It's all a matter of degree and quantity. So, yes, even quinoa, bulghur, and sorghum trigger this process. I've only recently appreciated just how bad oats and oatmeal are in this regard--really bad.

Foods that trigger small LDL also trigger higher blood sugars; foods that trigger higher blood sugars also trigger small LDL. Small LDL and blood sugar are two different things, but they track each other very closely.

So, in the Track Your Plaque approach to diet, we craft diet based on these simple principles:

1) Eliminate wheat, cornstarch, and sugars--These are the most flagrant triggers of small LDL, blood sugar, and, therefore, LDL glycation.
2) The inclusion of other carbohydrates, such as oatmeal, quinoa, rye, etc. depends on individual sensitivity. Individual sensitivity is best gauged by assessing one-hour postprandial glucose.

Stay tuned for more in this series. Also, Track Your Plaque Members: We will be having an in-depth webinar detailing more on thees principles in the next couple of weeks.

Is it or isn't it vitamin D?

Jackie takes 10,000 units of vitamin D(3) per day as a gelcap.

Her starting 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood level was 18.1 ng/ml. Severe deficiency, no surprise.

On her 10,000 units per day, Vitamin Shoppe brand, her 25-hydroxy vitamin D level was 76.2 ng/ml--perfect. It stayed in this range for about two years.

She then changed to the Nature Made brand gelcaps she picked up at Walgreen's. Repeat 25-hydroxy vitamin D level: 23 ng/ml.

This has now happened with five different people, all taking the Nature Made brand.

If you are taking this brand of vitamin D, please be on the alert. You might consider a 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood level to be sure it actually has the vitamin D it's supposed to have.

Or, change brands.

What to eat: Part I

I've spent a good number of Heart Scan Blog posts detailing what foods to limit or avoid.

The list of unquestionably bad foods to avoid include foods made of wheat, cornstarch, and sugars. Fructose is proving to be an exceptionally bad form of sugar, worse than any other. I've issued warnings about levels of carbohydrates that can be determined by postprandial testing.

In response to several requests to clarify what foods to eat, this post begins a series discussing what foods are good to eat.

I believe that a strong case can be made for eating vegetables in nearly all its varied forms, from cucumbers to peppers to leafy vegetables to eggplant to alliums like onions. The only form we avoid are red and white potatoes due to the blood sugar-increasing effects.

While this seems obvious, I am impressed how many people who follow low-carb diets find themselves following a high-animal product diet with vegetables as the sideline. It should be the other way around: A high vegetable diet with animal products as the sideline.

Vegetables are your principal source of:

1) Flavonoids and polyphenols--e.g., anthocyanins and catechins. All the recently appreciated effects of flavonoids and polyphenols highlight the wonderful effects of compounds originating in plant foods. This includes the anthocyanins and resveratrol in red wine; the catechins and epicatechins cocoa and green tea; the hydroxytyrosol, phenolic acid, and flavonoids of olive oil.

2) Fiber--Fiber is essentially a plant phenomenon, since there is virtually none in chicken, fish, and beef. The benefits of fiber are, I believe, undisputed. Neglecting fiber can, at the very least, lead to a nasty case of hemorrhoids. At the worst, it is related to various cancers, especially colon cancer.

3) Vitamin C--While vitamin C may be old and boring in light of new, exciting discoveries like flavonoids, neglect leads to bad things.

Vegetables are generally classified as carbohydrate foods, since they are low in protein and fat. But this is the source of carbohydrates you do not want to sacrifice in a low-carbohydrate diet. There's just too much good from vegetables.

Notice that I didn't say "fruits and vegetables." This is a fundamental mistake made by many: Oveconsumption of fruits. I've even seen people who follow an otherwise good diet develop diabetes--just from too much fruit.

Vegetables should be the cornerstone of the human diet. But I'll bet you knew that already.

Carbohydrates and LDL

There's a curious and powerful relationship between carbohydrates and LDL particles. Understanding this relationship is crucial to gaining control over heart disease risk.

(Note that I did not say "LDL cholesterol"--This is what confuses people, the notion that cholesterol is used as a surrogate marker to quantify various lipoproteins, including low-density lipoproteins, LDL. I'm NOT interested in the cholesterol; I'm interested in the behavior of the low-density lipoprotein particle. There's a difference.)

Carbohydrates:

1) Increase triglycerides and very low-density lipoprotein particles (VLDL)
2) Triglyceride-rich VLDL interact with LDL particles, making them smaller. (A process mediated by several enzymes, such as cholesteryl-ester transfer protein.)
3) Smaller LDL particles are more oxidizable--Oxidized LDL particles are the sort that are taken up by inflammatory white blood cells residing in the artery wall and atherosclerotic plaque.
4) Smaller LDL particles are more glycatable--Glycation of LDL is an important phenomenon that makes the LDL particle more atherogenic (plaque-causing). Glycated LDLs are not recognized by the LDL receptor, causing them to persist in the bloodstream longer than non-glcyated LDL. Glycated LDL is therefore taken up by inflammatory white blood cells in plaque.

Of course, carbohydrates also make you fat, further fueling the fire of this sequence.

The key is to break this chain: Cut out the carbohydrates. Cut carbohydrates and VLDL and triglycerides drop (dramatically), VLDL are unavailable to transform large LDL into small LDL, small LDL is no longer available to become oxidized and glycated, blood sugar is reduced to allow less glycation. Voila: Less atherosclerotic plaque growth.

Yet the USDA, American Heart Association, and the Surgeon General's office all advise you to eat more carbohydrates. The American Diabetes Association tells you to eat 70 grams or so carbohydrates per meal. (Yes: Diabetes, the condition that is MOST susceptible to these carbohydrate effects.) Follow their advice and you gain weight; triglycerides and VLDL go up; calculated (Friedewald) LDL may or may not go up, but true measured LDL (NMR LDL particle number or apoprotein B) goes way up; small LDL is triggered . . . You know the rest.

The dance between carbohydrates and LDL particles requires the participation of both. Allow one partner to drop out of the dance and LDL particles will sit this dance out.

Strange but true: Part II

Here's the second part of the Heart Scan Blog post I wrote a couple of years back describing the wacky origins of this thing that has so changed the face of heart care in the U.S., the cardiac catheterization.

Heart catheterization: Strange, but true

It's a couple of years old, but this post from March, 2008, remains relevant.

It details the curious origins of heart catheterization, the procedure that has saved some lives, but also been responsible for the proliferation of unnecessary heart procedures.



The modern era of heart disease care was born from an accident, quirky personalities, and even a little daring.

The notion of heart catheterization to visualize the human heart began rather ignominiously in 1929 at the Auguste-Viktoria Hospital in Eberswalde, Germany, a technological backwater of the day. Inspired by descriptions of a French physician who inserted a tube into the jugular vein of a horse and felt transmitted heart impulses outside the body, Dr. Werner Forssmann, an eager 25-year old physician-in-training, was intent on proving that access to the human heart could be safely gained through a surface blood vessel. No one knew if passing a catheter into the human heart would be safe, or whether it would become tangled in the heart’s chambers and cause it to stop beating. On voicing his intentions, Forssmann was ordered by superiors not to proceed. But he was determined to settle the question, especially since his ambitions captured the interest of nurse Gerda Ditzen, who willingly even offered to become the first human subject of his little experiment.

Secretly gathering the necessary supplies, he made his first attempt in private. After applying a local anesthetic, he used a scalpel to make an incision in his left elbow. He then inserted a hollow tube, a catheter intended for the bladder, into the vein exposed under the skin. After passing the catheter 14 inches into his arm, however, he experienced cold feet and pulled it out.



One week later, Forssman regained his resolve and repeated the process. Nurse Ditzen begged to be the subject, but Forssmann, in order to allow himself to be the first subject, tricked her into being strapped down and proceeded to work on himself while she helplessly watched. After stanching the oozing blood from the wound, he threaded the catheter slowly and painfully into the cephalic vein, up through the bicep, past the shoulder and subclavian vein, then down towards the heart. He knew that simply nudging the rubber catheter forward would be sufficient to direct it to the heart, since all veins of the body lead there. With the catheter buried 25 inches into his body, Forssmann untied the fuming Ditzen. Both then ran to the hospital’s basement x-ray department and injected x-ray dye into the catheter, yielding an image of the right side of his heart, the first made in a living human.

Thus, the very first catheterization of the heart was performed.

An x-ray image was made to document the accomplishment. Upon hearing of the experiment, Forssmann was promptly fired by superiors for his brazen act of self-experimentation. Deflated, Forssmann abandoned his experimentation and went on to practice urology. He became a member of the Nazi party in World War II Germany and served in the German army. Though condemned as crazy by some, physicians in Europe and the U.S., after hearing of his experience, furthered the effort and continued to explore the potential of the technique. Forssmann himself was never invited to speak of his experiences outside of Germany, as he had been labeled a Nazi.

Many years after his furtive experiments, the once intrepid Dr. Forssmann was living a quiet life practicing small town medicine. He received an unexpected phone call informing him that he was one of three physicians chosen to receive the 1956 Nobel Prize for Medicine for his pioneering work performing the world’s first heart catheterization, along with Drs. André Cournand and Dickinson W. Richards, both of whom had furthered Forssmann’s early work. Forssmann remarked to a reporter that he felt like a village pastor who was made a cardinal.

Strange, but true.
Atkins Diet: Common errors

Atkins Diet: Common errors

No doubt: The diet approach advocated by the late Dr. Robert Atkins was a heck of a lot closer to an ideal diet than the knuckleheaded advice emitting from the USDA, American Heart Association, American Diabetes Association, and the Surgeon General's office.

But having just spent a week with Atkins low-carbers, here are some common errors that I see many make, errors that I believe have long-term health consequences, including impairment of weight loss.

Excessive consumption of animal products--Non-restriction of fat often leads to over-reliance on animal products. Higher intakes of red meats (heme proteins?) have been strongly associated with increased risk for colon and other gastrointestinal tract cancers. It is not a fat issue; it is an animal product issue. We should consume less meat, more vegetables and other plant-sourced foods.

Consumption of cured meats--Cured, processed meats, such as sausage, hot dogs, salami, bologna, and bacon, have a color fixative called sodium nitrite, an additive that has been confidently linked to gastrointestinal cancers. Risk is likely dose-dependent: The more you ingest, the greater the long-term risk.

Overconsumption of dairy products--Dairy products, especially milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, and butter, are potent insulinotropic foods, i.e., foods that trigger insulin release. There can be up to a tripling of insulin (area-under-the-curve) levels. This is not good in a world populated with tired, overworked pancreases, exhausted from a lifetime of high-carbohydrate eating.

Too many calories--While I agree that "a calorie is a calorie" and "calories in, calories out" are faulty concepts, I have anecdotally observed that long-time low-carbers often trend towards unlimited consumption of food, a phenomenon that seems to result in weight gain, especially in the sedentary. I wonder if this is a reflection of the insulinotropic action of dairy products and other proteins, compounded by the poor insulin responsiveness that develops with lack of physical activity. Factor into this conversation that lower calorie intake extends life, probably substantially (Sirt-2 activation and related phenomena, a la resveratrol). If lower calorie intake extends life, unlimited calorie intake likely shortens life.

Please don't hear this as low-carb bashing--it is not. It is a call to improve diets and not stumble into common traps that can impair heart health, weight loss, and longevity.

Comments (74) -

  • Fred Hahn

    3/18/2010 1:02:21 PM |

    Nice post Bill. People really need to get this info into their heads.

    Great meeting you  on the cruise!

  • thequickbrownfox

    3/18/2010 1:14:09 PM |

    Please could you provide links to the interventional controlled (not observational) studies that have shown a link between eating meat and cancer risk, that separate the effect from eating junk food, and the fact that vegetarians are more likely to eat healthily in general than meat eaters due to the widespread and incorrect belief that saturated fat is harmful to health.

    Also, could you explain lack of cancer in traditional tribal societies with a high meat intake? You would need to do this before stating that meat intake necessarily increases cancer risk.

  • maxwell

    3/18/2010 1:25:40 PM |

    Hi doc,

    Great blog. How do you explain the Inuit, Masaai, Komi (Siberia), Native American and similar cultural groups whose diets seemed to subsist primarily on animal products? ie. including my ancestors.

    Perhaps its an emphasis on wild/grass-fed/raw dairy(or as close to) animal products as opposed to the grain-fed animal products which encompass the majority of the US that you need to be addressing?

    Thanks.

  • ET

    3/18/2010 1:31:21 PM |

    Interesting point of view.  Can you please provide references to support your claims?

  • Sandra Anderson

    3/18/2010 1:38:14 PM |

    Great diet, and yes, it seems that we should talk about healthy eating instead of weight loss or diets. Anyway the purpose of any diet is to move your eating habits to new healthy level.

    Thanks for sharing and possibility to comment! Welcome to visit Ideal Weight Blog to find some recipes and great articles! Thanks!

  • Mario Renato

    3/18/2010 1:40:29 PM |

    Just on the nitrate/nitrite subject: as far as I know nitrate is a naturally occurring compound and the human exposure to it is mostly through  consumption of vegetables, and to a lesser extent water and other foods...

    http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/scdocs/scdoc/689.htm

  • Matt Stone

    3/18/2010 1:48:56 PM |

    I would say there are 3 primary pitfalls of low-carb dieting:

    1) Being too low in carbohydrates - being in ketosis is anti-metabolic and induces insulin resistance, and probably why Atkins suggested that his diet "tends to shut down the thyroid."  

    2) Too much protein - this strains the thyroid as well, and encourages gluconeogenesis, which is also problematic - especially when in ketosis and insulin resistance is extreme.  

    3) Extremely high in omega 6 polyunsaturated fat.  Eating a low carb diet with lots of pork fat, chicken skin, peanut butter, and nuts - the typical standbys of many low-carb dieters, provides an astronomical amount of omega 6.

    By my best guesses, I was consuming 15+ grams of omega 6 while on a low-carb diet.  I've since cut that back to less than 3 grams per day and the change has been dramatic.  Of course the 400 grams of carbs per day helps too.

  • Dana Law

    3/18/2010 2:14:43 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
    Thank you for this post.  I'm certainly culpable of the "common errors" you mention.  I find that making daily decisions on what to eat difficult. I want to eat healthy and have some variety. Here's the question.  What do you eat?  What did you have for breakfast this morning?  What did you eat last night?  What do you keep in the fridge and on the counter to make following your dictates easier.
    I don't want to over-think it but all this information is overwhelming.  I feel like a scientist and my body is the research subject.
    Thank you for your blog.  I've learned a lot but need some direct guidance.
    Sincerely,
    Dana Law
    San Diego, Ca

  • Andrew

    3/18/2010 2:21:17 PM |

    Why is "Calories in vs. calories out" a faulty concept?

  • Tim

    3/18/2010 3:03:47 PM |

    Have you really read the meat leading to cancer literature carefully or do you just think it's like that? Others like Gary Taubes and Eades (who I really trust when it comes to research) have found no evidence that meat cause cancer.

    On sodium nitrate, I totally agree. I get so mad when I'm walking in the grocery stores. All meat has sodium nitrate added. Grrr.

    I share your thought about dairy. But do you really mean that butter triggers insulin spikes?

  • Daniel

    3/18/2010 3:11:55 PM |

    Most nitrite is form your own spit and originally ingested by eating vegetables.  

    I believe the epidemiological studies (which also typically find fat to have bad associations...) have more to do with a lack of fruits/vegetables/polyphenols than anything that is bad about meat.  

    Also, I don't think glycemic index or the insulinotropic nature of certain proteins matters one lick for people that are healthy.  I can eat a boiled potato for breakfast without my blood sugar breaking 100... I don't think diabetes is an overuse injury - more likely, it is cause by damage to the liver and then pancreas from PUFA and fructose overconsumption.  

    I think Matt Stone is correct about the top three problems with Atkins.

  • Lena

    3/18/2010 3:17:06 PM |

    If you're really concerned about your nitrite intake, watch your celery, arugula and spinach (and many other vegetables) consumption, too. Nitrites galore. Though it's not nitrites and nitrates in and of themselves that are linked to cancer, it's the nitrosamines that can form from them.

    Sodium nitrite isn't primarily a colour fixative, it's a an anti-bacterial agent. Meats cured with sodium chloride only have to be done quite carefully to avoid botulism. Nitrite has been used since the 16th century to preserve meat. Modern cured meats also add sodium ascorbate, and ascorbates have been shown to inhibit nitrosation reactions and thus the nitroamine level in these cured meats is usually at undetecable levels.

    Nitrites are produced in our mouths from bacterial reactions to the nitrates in food and water, and at least 70% of our dietary nitrite comes from this salivary nitrite (which came from our food and water). The nitrites and nitrates we then ingest are mostly either excreted fairly promptly or used to make nitric oxide. Human gastric secretions have a pH which isn't condusive to nitrosamine formation, and also include ascorbates which reduce nitrosamine formation, and keeping one's vitamin C at good levels will also have an effect. People with achlorhydria will obviously be more susceptible to nitrosamine formation. But interestingly, there are studies which now suggest that nitrite consumption is a good thing: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20005970 - and branched-chain amino acids are also suggested as suppressing the effect of nitrosamines. However the amount of nitrosamines you get from smoking is definitely Not Good, and no amount of ascorbate will ameliorate it.

    So, a good intake of nitrates and nitrites primarily through vegetables, some fruit, and some cured meat is good: the vegetables and fruit contain ascorbates as does your body, and most of hte meat should have it added also, minimising the formation of nitrosamines, leaving your body to get on with making use of the nitr*tes to make needed nitric oxide. (Oral nitric oxide/arginine supplements are rubbish though - the studies showing their benefit used intravenous/injected supplement.)

    Personally, I'll take nitrites over botulism, thanks.

  • Anna

    3/18/2010 4:00:07 PM |

    Hmmm, I've never been on a cruise, but if I did go on one, I'll bet I'd have to eat somewhat differently than I do at home, regardless of the carb count.  Between not having access to the pastured bison and wild game, raw dairy, "backyard" eggs, and organic CSA produce subscription, and so on that make up most of my family's daily diet, and no access to a kitchen, my meals on a cruise would hardly be representative of my usual diet.  

    I'll bet LC cruisers are as prone to anyone when it comes to the excesses of endless supply of prepared foods on cruises, but I'm not sure we can assume that's the way they always eat.  Most people  eat somewhat differently on vacation, whether it's because they are on somewhat of a "diet vacation", or because they have to make the best of what's available.  When I was on vacation in Italy I had a gelato every day, but I certainly don't do that at home (it was a conscious decision to take a slight vacation from my diet and enjoy a local specialty for a limited time).  And I've been places where it was impossible to get eggs cooked in real butter instead of the ubiquitous "griddle grease" hydrogenated veggie oil, let alone pastured eggs and humanely produced bacon (seriously, we breakfasted at a tiny roadside diner outside Twenty-Nine Palms that had NO butter on the premises).  

    And not all LC eaters are following an Atkin's diet plan, though I understand the Atkins label has become be a generic term for LC eating.  I've read an Atkins book (as well as at least a half dozen other LC diet books).  I eat LC (& GF now) but I've never followed specifically an Atkin's diet plan, nor do I describe myself as at Atkin's dieter.

    I think the points you make point out that even on low carb, people can and do still rely on far too much industrial food.  It's convenient and it's everywhere (hard to avoid, esp when dining away from home).  Frankly, one of the reasons cruise vacations hold little appeal to me is the idea of having to nothing to eat all week but cr@p industrial food, no matter how talented the chefs may be at making it look and taste good.   I may be making a sweeping assumption, but somehow I don't imagine that cruise chefs are simmering their own bone broth stocks, curing charcuterie themselves, and making their own cheese (or even sourcing from small artisan vendors  very much).    I'd be extremely surprised if cruise ship food ingredients weren't offloaded from US Food tractor trailer trucks.  That's what I've seen at many land-based resorts.  When I travel,  as much as possible, I want to try the local traditional foods and specialties, prepared as authentically as possible.  That might mean eating more of something than usual (and less, too).

  • Anonymous

    3/18/2010 4:15:55 PM |

    Isn't it also an Atkins diet error that low-carb eaters tend to be on a constant and frantic quest for processed fake food items that are pretend substitutes for the food that got them in trouble in the first place?  And many of them have made Jimmy Moore, a huge hawker of low-carb substitutes and a less-than-successful low-carber, their role model.  

    I noticed on Swedish physician Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt's blog that his description of his experience on the cruise was that "[t]he big difference with Sweden is that many are fond of low-carb versions of traditional junk food, sugar, and so. Low carb cake, low carb icecream, low carb potato chips, diet sodas ... In my eyes seemed to just those participants who ate such did not have the same persuasive power of the diet. To put it nicely. Perhaps it was the roundest of them all, the man [Andrew DiMino -- Carbsmart.com?] who handed out the various "low carb" products that are advertising for his company. [Google translation]

    People I know who have been totally unsuccessful on Atkins have gleefully loaded up on "substitutes" that probably have derailed them.  And the Atkins company that sells this crap will forever keep the Atkins mantra from the gaining the credibility it probably deserves.

  • Emily

    3/18/2010 4:15:55 PM |

    also curious as to how butter could cause a rise in insulin. butter has even less/no carbs compared to cheese, and in previous posts you've said cheese doesnt cause blood sugar rises...

  • Emily

    3/18/2010 4:20:11 PM |

    also many health food stores, grocery co-ops, and whole foods and trader joes sell either no nitrate-added or uncured deli meats and bacon. applegate and niman ranch are brands that sell these foods.

  • Fred Hahn

    3/18/2010 4:48:10 PM |

    Bill you said:

    "Excessive consumption of animal products--Non-restriction of fat often leads to over-reliance on animal products. Higher intakes of red meats (heme proteins?) have been strongly associated with increased risk for colon and other gastrointestinal tract cancers. It is not a fat issue; it is an animal product issue. We should consume less meat, more vegetables and other plant-sourced foods."

    I don't think this is true Bill. As far as I'm aware, there is no good evidence to support protein as cancer causing. Dr. Eades has debunked this on his blog.

  • Beth@WeightMaven

    3/18/2010 5:15:58 PM |

    Andrew, scroll down and see the section on conservation of energy for why calories in vs out is faulty: http://entropyproduction.blogspot.com/2009/02/all-medical-science-is-wrong-within-95.html

  • Beth@WeightMaven

    3/18/2010 5:19:08 PM |

    Ditto what Tim said. My understanding is that it's the whey in dairy that is insulinogenic (tho it's a bit like the glycemic index ... it depends on when and what you eat it with).

    Butter should not be as big a problem. One of my go-tos is ghee from grass-fed cows. The small amount of milk solids left in butter are removed when ghee is made.

  • Gretchen

    3/18/2010 6:27:26 PM |

    If you cut out animal protein, dairy, and carbs, there's not much left to eat.

    The protein sources favored by vegetarians, beans, rice, and grains, make blood sugar increase too much for people with diabetes.

    One can not live on tofu and fat alone, and anyway some people say too much soy is not good.

    I don't know why people have a prejudice against dairy. See this:

    http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/29/7/1579.full

    If you have a diabetic tendency, it means your beta cells aren't producing enough insulin, so a food that helps them along is good.

  • Jimmy Moore

    3/18/2010 6:30:13 PM |

    Well said Dr. Davis!  We were certainly appreciative of your presence on the Low-Carb Cruise.  THANK YOU so much for all of your contributions...we need to get you back on the podcast later this year. Smile

  • zach

    3/18/2010 6:32:46 PM |

    Too many calories on a high fat diet? Good luck keeping that up. I can't get 2000 most days. Too full.

    Why were there traditional societies that used dairy as a staple yet were free of CVD and diabetes, including the super long lived people on the border of Eastern Europe and Central Asia?

    Copy and paste the above argument for "eating too much meat."

    Low carb may not be for everyone, but the biggest problem with some low carbers is probably too much n-6 from processed meat. Lots of nuts aren't that good for you either.

  • Anonymous

    3/18/2010 6:46:12 PM |

    What is the alternative for animal protein? Soy, gluten,beans, nuts all cause other problems?

    Please suggest some sample of improved Atkin diet.

  • PJNOIR

    3/18/2010 6:54:50 PM |

    Again Low carb is NOT zero carb. Many atkins folks don't really read the diet. I used atkins succesfully last year and eat more veggies then I ever did. It is not all about meqat meat meat or even high protein. And as much as I enjoy your blog- you still have a huge fear of fat. With Atkins I have improved my metabolic problems.

  • Helen

    3/18/2010 7:12:05 PM |

    I've been concerned to learn, here and elsewhere, that dairy products are insulinogenic, particularly since I can't seem to manage a reasonable diet without a fair amount of them.  (Nuts don't do well with me, soy is a no-go, I can only eat so much meat, my family has egg-allergy issues, and the fish that is non-contaminated, sustainably caught, not-BPA-canned, not-fed omega-6 and dioxin-laced stuff in a disgusting fish farm, is wicked expensive and logistically impossible to get fresh for my family more than once a week....)

    On the other hand, there are several dairy-reliant cultures that are quite long-lived and healthy, and dairy-consuming people in our own culture tend to be healthier than non-dairy eaters.  So maybe something mitigates the insulin question with dairy.  Just saying.

    In the end, you have to eat something, and sometimes reading this blog I feel I can't eat anything.  Like Dana Law, I'd like a better picture of what an ideal, or at least acceptable, day's or week's diet would look like from your point of view.

  • Jenny

    3/18/2010 8:56:12 PM |

    I've followed Atkins for these last three years, losing 80lbs in the process, so am quite familiar with what's permitted and not.

    Atkins did not recommend consuming any milk, nor was much yogurt or cottage cheese permitted. Hard cheese, cream cheese and heavy cream are allowed, but the Atkins diet permits less than 2-3 oz per day.

    Butter is allowed liberally, but is 100% fat so can't be very insunlinotropic, if at all.

    Because I raise dairy goats, until three years ago, I drank goat milk freel.  Now I never drink it, though I do have a glass of very sour kefir now and then, after the probiotics have cultured most of the lactose into lactic acid.  The kefir I drink is very tart. Most people don't like it that sour. lol

    The "Atkins is High-Protein" myth is often bandied about by anti-low-carb groups. I track my daily intake on FitDay and it's usually about 15-18% protein, 65-70% fat, and 10-20% carbs... pretty much what Atkins recommended; even 20% protein is not especially high protein.

    My carbs come mostly from eggs, green vegetables, heavy cream for coffee, berries and other LC fruit, and certain nuts and seeds, like flax.  Peanut butter is very carby, and not freely allowed in Atkins.

    I recommend reading the old Atkins book to understand what his diet really contains. Read the 1972 version, as the newer books (after 1999) were changed by Atkins Nutritionals to allow low-carb junk food that they conveniently sell.

  • Dr. William Davis

    3/18/2010 9:51:41 PM |

    I don't want anybody to hear "don't eat meat" here.

    I think that you should eat meat. I am a former vegetarian and I don't particularly like meat. Despite this, I do feel that humans are meant to be carnivorous. I just don't believe that piling your plate high with animal products several times per day is the ideal way to eat.

  • Haggus

    3/18/2010 9:58:20 PM |

    Dr. Davis, you sure it was "Atkins low-carbers" you were with?

    "Excessive consumption of animal products"

    At least with DANDR 2002, as you go up higher on the rungs, meat is replaced somewhat by veggies.  Personally, I eat around 200g of meat per day.  Of that, less than 90g is red meat (the rest is fish.)

    "Consumption of cured meat"

    I love bacon as much as the next guy, but in even Dr. Atkins stated in DANDR 20002 that one should "try to avoid meat and fish products cured with nitrates, which are known carcinogens."

    As for dairy, it's not taboo but still has to be fitted into the carbs you are allowed per day.

    This is the second blog post since the trip you have me scratching my head.  I hit your 60-60-60 markers using oat bran all the while being IGT and sporting an A1c of 4.8%.  (And before anyone asks, in DANDR 2002 Dr. Atkins mentions oat bran to bring down your cholesterol levels.)

  • zach

    3/18/2010 10:12:54 PM |

    Dr. Davis says:

    "I just don't believe that piling your plate high with animal products several times per day is the ideal way to eat."

    Try to do that for an extended period of time. I lasted about 2 weeks. Now I have a very small meaty breakfast, and a modest size meaty dinner, and I'm STUFFED. Been like this for years. Can't eat lunch-not hungry.

    You prefer plant foods which is great, but you're not in a carnivore's shoes. From our perspective, what you say is rather silly because many of us actually worry about not getting enough calories! Fat is filling. I'm a 6ft, 165 lb male and I can barely get 2000 calories I feel so full.

  • homeskillet

    3/18/2010 10:40:42 PM |

    Amen to Zach. I'm a PUFA-phobe, and if there's no grass-fed meat or butter in my diet, where am I going to get my fat?
    Nuts? (PUFAs)
    Soy? (Won't eat it unless it's fermented--like miso)
    SUPER-skeptical about your claim regarding insulinotropic dairy. If it is so chronic disease-inducing, wouldn't the Swiss of the Loetschental Valley been prematurely "toes up in the dirt" of the emerald green countryside before Weston Price would have arrived to find out how spectacular their health was because of the dairy they consumed?

    Brilliance abounds here: http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2010/3/18/sat-fat-or-pufa-which-one-do-you-fear.html

  • Helen

    3/18/2010 10:47:42 PM |

    Hey, Gretchen,

    Thanks for the link!  Good to know, and I was wondering about whether producing more insulin would be good or bad for me.  I had gestational diabetes, so I do have a diabetic tendency.  I'll keep eating my yogurt, then.

    Helen

  • kilton9

    3/18/2010 10:49:35 PM |

    Here's a good take on the conventional "wisdom" of nitrates: http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/07/does-banning-hotdogs-and-bacon-make.html

    Matt:

    "Being too low in carbohydrates - being in ketosis is anti-metabolic and induces insulin resistance, and probably why Atkins suggested that his diet 'tends to shut down the thyroid.'"

    I generally find your thoughts to be spot-on, so there's no need to manipulate Atkins' quote to enhance your point.  What he said was that dieting in general tends to shut down the thyroid.

    "[P]rolonged dieting [including ‘this one’] tends to shut down thyroid function."

  • Paul

    3/18/2010 10:59:54 PM |

    Dr Davis -
    Could you please post your "typical" breakfast, lunch, and dinner? I've been reading this blog for awhile (and it's great), and have read a lot of what NOT to eat, but haven't read much on what TO eat. What should our 3 square meals/day look like?

  • sonagi92

    3/18/2010 11:25:42 PM |

    I knew that dairy was insulinotropic, but like Emily, I was surprised to see butter on the list as butter is mostly fat, and clarified butter entirely fat.  As I understand, it is protein-rich foods like beef, chicken, and fish, that provoke unexpectedly high insulin responses, so I thought it was either the sugars or the protein in dairy, not the fat, that spiked a rise in blood sugar.  Is butter really insulinotropic like other dairy products containing lactose sugars and proteins?

  • sonagi92

    3/18/2010 11:39:43 PM |

    Another comment about dairy and weight gain:

    I have noticed that melted cheese in particular - a warm, creamy fat with some carbs and protein - is highly palatable.  Full-fat yogurt, whipped cream, and guacamole are similarly irresistible.  I could not consume more than a couple tablespoons of olive oil yet have no trouble gobbling down a few slices of cheese melted onto a piece of chicken or beef.  I'm trying to shave off 5 more pounds to reach my goal, so I've given up all dairy except for clarified butter, which I use to saute veggies.  Will see if this works.

  • Sue

    3/18/2010 11:55:11 PM |

    Most of the low-carbers on the cruise seemed to be overweight.  I don't know if some of them were just starting eating low carb.  I think this is what prompted Davis' post.  If you are still overweight doing low-carb - are you doing something wrong? Should slimness be a goal every low-carber can meet (apart from all the other health benefits)?

  • Dr. William Davis

    3/19/2010 12:58:36 AM |

    Hi, Fred!

    We had some great conversations. I learned a lot from your "slow-burn" discussions and I've been applying them to my workouts.

    Good to see you here! I will be detailing some of the fat/animal product/cancer discussions in future.

  • frogfarm

    3/19/2010 12:58:37 AM |

    "I do feel that humans are meant to be carnivorous. I just don't believe that piling your plate high with animal products several times per day is the ideal way to eat."

    I'm scratching my head trying to reconcile these two statements.

    How about eating animal products to hunger once or twice a day?

  • Dr. William Davis

    3/19/2010 1:00:10 AM |

    Haggus--

    Excellent point.

    What Bob Atkins called "the Atkins Diet" was somewhat different from what is commonly practiced as "the Atkins Diet."

    As time passes, I continue to marvel at how much he got right.

  • Anonymous

    3/19/2010 1:01:16 AM |

    How high is "too high?" I say this not to be a smart aleck or to overlook the wisdom in "you'll know it when you see it," but this is a bit too vague to be of much use.

    Clearly a largely plant-based diet supplemented with a decent amount of animal protein will trump loading up heavily on animal products to the exclusion of plant-based foods. But there's far too many vague generalizations being bandied about by so-called dietary experts these days and not a lot of concrete recommendations that can be tailored to fit a person's unique context.

    -Bob Sutcliff

  • Rick

    3/19/2010 1:54:31 AM |

    Wow. Echoing a few other commenters, I'd really like some guidelines on what a good diet would look like.

  • Anonymous

    3/19/2010 3:23:10 AM |

    Jenny said: "I track my daily intake on FitDay and it's usually about 15-18% protein, 65-70% fat, and 10-20% carbs... pretty much what Atkins recommended...."

    Whenever I read this sort of thing, I get confused. 15-18% of WHAT? the total calories? and if so then how do I translate that percentage into actual amounts (like grams or ounces?)

    I'm sure most of you can straighten me out on this once and for all. Thanks!

  • Renfrew

    3/19/2010 10:36:00 AM |

    Dr. Davis,

    it would be great after such lengthy and detailed discussions about this topic to give us a typical sample food or meal list for a day of yours.
    Looking forward to it.

    Renfrew

  • Peter

    3/19/2010 1:11:35 PM |

    Fred Hahn: I'm mixed up about your two posts here, "People need to get this into their heads" and "Not true."

  • Lucy

    3/19/2010 1:46:53 PM |

    I would also like to see a typical day in the life of Dr. Davis.

    Anon-  Yes, they mean a % of total calories.  You can figure it this way:

    1g Protein = 4 cals
    1g Carb = 4 cals
    1g Fat = 9 cals

    So if a person eats 2000 cals/day and 18% was from protein, then that person ate approximately 360 cals of protein.  Divide 360 by 4 and you get 90 grams of protein.

  • scall0way

    3/19/2010 2:29:51 PM |

    I agree that there are many low carbers who follow their eating plan less than optimally. I see them posting on the low carb forums I follow. But as one who was also on the cruise, I don't think you can really equate cruise eating with what people eat on a normal day-to-day basis!

    I had resolved to eat only "real food" on the cruise, as I almost always do at home, and I had resolved not to snack. And I was pretty good about my resolve. I didn't snack, ate only three meals a day, avoided the flour, sugar, even the sugar-free cheesecake and other things provided.

    But did I eat exactly the way I would eat at home? No, I didn't. I undoubtedly ate more than I would have eaten at home, and probably certainly more protein sources than I would have eaten at home. The last night of the cruise I even broke down and had one of the sugar-free margaritas, and I had a half glass of red wine at the comedy show.

    And I'm sure my PUFA intake was higher than I would normally like. We had no control over how foods were prepared in the kitchen after all, or very little.

    But this was 5 days out of my life, not a lifetime of eating. Smile I didn't gain any weight on the cruise and indeed have even hit a new low this week since being back. Overall I've lost more than 100 pounds.  

    I'm not convinced of the meat/cancer link either - though too much protein raises my blood sugar so I don't normal OD on protein much. I was never a vegetarian but often thought I could have gone that way as I'm not all that crazy about meat. But now I have an "It's them or me" attitude and look for meats I  enjoy better - just not too much.

    Apparently Matt Stone has challenged my son to try out a super-low-calorie, essentially fat-free diet, based on 1930s research by Evans and Strang, and I'm following his progress with interest. But at the moment it's not for me. I still love my butter and coconut oil.

    But we are all so different, and what works for one may not work well for another. But I wonder how many low carbers eat at home the same way they ate on the cruise?

  • Anonymous

    3/19/2010 2:34:39 PM |

    Well said Dr. Davis!

    Jimmy this is not at all what you promote.  I am confused by your comment.

    Dr. Davis, are you choosing to ignore all those who have asked you to defend your claims (and the great questions asked).  This is the first post I have ever read by you that makes me shake my head.  

    Sally Sue

  • Jenny

    3/19/2010 3:01:52 PM |

    Anon said: "Whenever I read this sort of thing, I get confused. 15-18% of WHAT? the total calories? and if so then how do I translate that percentage into actual amounts (like grams or ounces?)"

    Percentages of my daily food intake. I used percentages because everyone has a different calorie ceiling where we stop losing weight. The ceiling calorie limit usually changes as you lose weight; but the percentage of Protein, Fat and Carbohydrates should remain the same.

    My daily calorie limit is now around 1500 calories; when I weighed 80 lbs more, it was closer to 2000 calories; and at 2000 calories back then I was losing 3-4 lbs a week.  Either way, the grams/oz of Potein/Fat/Carbs that I eat probably won't relate well to you; but percentages can and will.

    By the way, I use a food-tracking program called FitDay, that calculates your food entries into P/F/C, and into grams/oz and percentages, and also gives daily vitamin/mineral counts as well as for individual foods.  It's really quite interesting to compare the nutrition counts of different foods; that way you can see what's really worth eating.  Meat contains a lot more than just protein... it has a lot of essential vitamins and minerals, actually.

    FitDay is free online, but the purchased version is much more convenient; I paid $25 three years ago and consider the money well spent.

    You should track your own food intake to see for yourself what percentages your current diet contains... you might be surprised. Food tracking, whether through FitDay or some other program, is the single most useful thing that helps keep me on track.

  • Nancy

    3/19/2010 3:40:20 PM |

    Red meat and intestinal cancer isn't strongly linked.  In fact, it seems to be dissolving under tougher scrutiny.

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/73040.php

    "Recent studies published in the journal Cancer Science have disproved the common myth that consumption of red meat increases colorectal cancer  risk."

  • Martin Levac

    3/19/2010 5:29:56 PM |

    Eat for health, not for weight loss. I agree.

    However, if, perchance, you believed that you ate for health, yet the same diet kept you fat, or God forbid kept you emaciated, would you really be eating for health then?

  • Anonymous

    3/19/2010 7:07:20 PM |

    Re Anonymous and "percentages."  This drives me crazy too.  Without a total daily calorie count, percentages are meaningless.  So what if I eat "10%" carbs, if I am noshing on 6000 calories a day?

    To answer your question: yes, you do have to do some simple math.  First, figure out the number of calories in the given percentage, using a hypothetical total daily caloric intake.  40% of 2,000 calories, for example, would be 800 calories.  A carb has roughly 4-5 calories per gram, so that would equate to around 200 grams of carbs.  Protein is similar.  Fat, on the other hand, has 9 calories per gram.  So those 800 calories would be slightly less than 90 grams of fat.

    Once you start doing it, it gets easier.  Practice on food labels!

  • HSL

    3/19/2010 8:11:21 PM |

    Anon - most food values are given as a % of calories.  For example if you are eating 2000 calories/day of which 70% is fat, then you're eating about 155 gms of fat per day (2000 x 0.70 = 1400/9 = 155 gms). Fat has about 9 calories/gm; carbs & protein each have about 4 calories/gm.

    As for "...15 to 18% of what" that would depend on what you're eating.  Three ounces of white fish (raw) has about 16 gms of protein; 3 oz of beef chuck (raw) has about 28 gms of protein.

  • Andrew

    3/19/2010 8:39:27 PM |

    Beth:

    That doesn't prove that calories in vs. calories out is faulty.  The calories in vs. calories out concept is simply the theory that you will lose weight if you eat below BMR, regardless of what foods you eat.  The Thermodynamics argument is misapplied to this concept, IMO.

    Perhaps we are simply thinking of two different concepts.

  • Lori Miller

    3/20/2010 12:24:31 AM |

    Some highlighted words from the original post: overconsumption, excessive consumption, and too many calories. The point seems to be that a little rich food goes a long way. Oh, and don't eat food that causes cancer.

  • Kim

    3/20/2010 2:59:58 AM |

    Sue said,"Most of the low-carbers on the cruise seemed to be overweight. I don't know if some of them were just starting eating low carb. I think this is what prompted Davis' post. If you are still overweight doing low-carb - are you doing something wrong? Should slimness be a goal every low-carber can meet (apart from all the other health benefits)?"

    I was on the cruise and yes, many of the cruisers were overweight.  Some are just starting a low carb lifestyle, and some are not.  I personally have lost over 150 lbs on low carb and maintained that loss for nearly 2 years now.  I consider that a success, however, I am not thin by any means and am working on about 50 more lbs.  I took the advice from many of the speakers, Dr. Davis included, and have worked it into my daily routines.  As a registered nurse, I am aware of nutrition both mainstream and low carb.  I do my research.  I try to eat cleanly most of the time.  Life interferes sometimes, much as is does for anyone who is human and as I know it has for some of the individuals who were on the cruise.  I do believe individuals who are or have been morbidly obese are vastly different from your average American with 30 lbs to lose.  Everything happens on a grander scale.  We lose weight bigger and gain weight bigger.  All I know is I've lost 100+ lbs using the Standard American Diet--twice.  Within a year I gained it back--twice.  Finding a low carb diet has saved my life.  I eat in normal portion sizes, I maintain. Is it for everyone? No.  Is it the only way? No.  But it is one way that works for many people who really need it.  

    Thanks Dr. Davis, for your presentation.  I truly enjoyed it.

  • Hilary

    3/20/2010 3:08:32 PM |

    "Higher intakes of red meats (heme proteins?) have been strongly associated with increased risk for colon and other gastrointestinal tract cancers."

    Really? Strong association? If that's true, then how do you explain this?:
    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajcn.2008.26838v1

  • Edward

    3/20/2010 8:36:45 PM |

    Hilary said:

    "Really? Strong association? If that's true, then how do you explain this?:
    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajcn.2008.26838v1"

    Hilary, I have not formed an opinion one way or the other on this issue yet, but the study you cite was "Supported in part by the Cattlemen's Beef Board, through the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, and the National Pork Board."

  • Anonymous

    3/20/2010 10:36:51 PM |

    Re my question as to how to translate percentages of protein, fat and carbs into grams, I should've have asked my trusted friend "google" instead of taking up someone's time here. So please forgive me.

    But Thanks! to those who responded. Your explanations were very helpful.

    Meanwhile, I found a site which will do all that computation for me and thought I'd pass it on.
    http://www.freedieting.com/tools/nutrient_calculator.htm

  • Anonymous

    3/21/2010 1:09:02 AM |

    Hi I was on the cruise and thoroughly enjoyed it. Sue, Yes I am overweight according to my BMI of 29, I was on the cruise the first year by the second i was 20 pound lighter by the time I got on this years cruise since last year I have lost 54 pound. Yes I am still as you say overweight but I am doing something about it. Sorry I wasn't "normal" for this year but I will be for next year. Snacks were handed out but the message was clear that these are treats and a preferable treat than something high carb and sugar loaded. There were new people there and others who have been doing it a while and of those we are all less than when we started. We had some excellent speakers i.e. Dana Carpender who spends her life educating us how to make foods using our own ingredients she even said you can put weight on eating low carb as we still can make the wrong choices. We all have the same problem with food do we not but we are prepared to be educated by the fabulous speakers who went to help us and gave their time freely to pass on their knowledge.

    A big big thank you to them and you Dr Davis

    Ailsa who came one the cruise all the way from the UK.

  • Mike Turco

    3/22/2010 2:21:16 AM |

    I've been reading your blog for a couple years and really enjoy doing so. I think you've got it wrong on the Atkins diet, though. I don't know where you got your information and I'm pretty sure you didn't read the books. Milk and yogurt aren't on the "diet". Atkins also told you to not eat cured meats. As far as calories are concerned, Atkins also told people to not eat too much! So... I'm having a lot of difficulty with this article in particular & wanted to pipe up. I'll go back to readin' the rest of your blog now. Thanks for all your efforts in keeping this blog up and running. -- Mike

  • George

    3/22/2010 3:46:11 PM |

    Dr. Davis, have greatly enjoyed your insights on this blog over the year. Have had your book for a couple of years. Have noticed great benefits from your vitamin D recommendations. When is your updated Track Your Plaque book coming out? I thought it was coming out toward the end of last year? Any ETA on it? Very interested in seeing your recommendations as it relates to diet? Typical recommended breakfasts, lunchs, and dinners?

    George

  • Owen

    3/28/2010 12:13:24 PM |

    This seems consistent with Ray Peat's advice as far as meat meat is concerned- he recommends balancing meat intake with gelatin so as to not get too much iron (hemeprotein afterall) as well as the fact that it has a less inflammatory amino acid profile (muscle is high in tryptophan and histidine wheras gelatin has no tryptophan and lots of glycine and proline...)

    Also he mentions that he always drinks coffee when he eats red meat so as to block iron overload even more!

    Of course he has no problems with milk, butter and cheese consumption but prefers the latter b/c curds have a better amino profile than whey.

  • Anonymous

    3/28/2010 5:35:14 PM |

    Over the years, I've looked closely at the studies associating red meat with colorectal cancer, and it appears to be impossible from them to separate the effects of modern meat production practices from that of the meat. In other words, it is as likely as not that what's wrong with the red meat is what we put into it, and how it is grown, versus any attribute of the meat itself.

    However, whatever the cause of the problem, it pays to at least limit consumption of red meat that you buy in a supermarket.

  • Atkins Diet

    4/24/2010 11:14:47 PM |

    Hi Dr Davis,

    Thanks for sharing your comments. I am a big Atkins Diet follower, and we all need to remind ourselves to keep the intake of "processed" meat & foods to a minimum. Vegetables are a good way to go! Thanks for providing us <a href ="http://atkinsdietinformation.blogspot.com>Atkins Diet</a> followers with such relevant and important information

    Cheers,

    John

  • jpatti

    5/7/2010 8:27:28 AM |

    I think it's bizarre to associate ANYONE'S eating habits on a cruise with what their day-to-day life is like.

    My normal food would not be available on a cruise: homemade yogurt and kefir made from fresh raw whole milk mixed with berries, pastured eggs with dark yellow yolks cooked in pastured butter, pastured meat, fresh organic fruits and vegetables, homemade chocolate made with coconut oil, cocoa, almonds and stevia... I don't see a cruise line providing food like this.

    So, I'd probably do sugar-free cheesecake too, or wind up overeating fresh fruit, just cause there'd not be any of my food there.

    When I travel, I do Wendy's burgers using the lettuce as a bun if hitting a drive-through or really crappy salad bars with not much beyond iceberg lettuce.

    Sometimes, you do the best you can with the circumstances... cause to eat really WELL, you pretty much need a kitchen.

  • R. Eductil

    6/7/2010 6:08:32 PM |

    This article contains huge inventory of knowledge and telling about the diet and what to eat or not.

  • suzan

    6/8/2010 11:06:10 AM |

    healthty diet is important..nice article about diet

  • Atkins Diet Copy

    7/11/2010 11:09:15 PM |

    Thanks for sharing this very useful tips.

  • cheapcalorad

    10/22/2010 10:58:27 AM |

    Really some truth to the fact that people from Mediterranean areas are seldom obese despite eating a very high fat diet? Did science get it all wrong before? Was there a national conspiracy to force people to eat boring, healthy foods? Thanks for your good suggestion.

    Welcome to visit-
    weight loss accelerator.
    Cheap Calorad

  • Anonymous

    11/2/2010 11:54:28 PM |

    I haven't eaten meat or dairy in long time. Humans don't need meat or dairy. I think meat is disgusting and I'm glad I don't have to eat it. I've seen meat-eaters B-12 deficient, so this shows eating meat doesn't necessarily make someone sufficient in B-12. Methylcobalamin B-12 works great. Eating red meat apparently increases colon and breast cancer risk. I think meat was meant to be an option, just like grains or legumes. Humans were designed to survive on many different things. Plant foods are affordable and bearable for me - meat is not.

  • buy jeans

    11/3/2010 2:21:15 PM |

    Overconsumption of dairy products--Dairy products, especially milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, and butter, are potent insulinotropic foods, i.e., foods that trigger insulin release. There can be up to a tripling of insulin (area-under-the-curve) levels. This is not good in a world populated with tired, overworked pancreases, exhausted from a lifetime of high-carbohydrate eating.

  • atkins diet plan

    12/7/2010 12:42:49 PM |

    hey guys,
    you out there had some great conversations that help me learn a lot from your, atkins diet, "slow-burn" discussions, meat consumption and being vegetarian.

    Nice exchange of great ideas, keep going guys and thanks Dr. Davis.

  • Lance Strish

    9/25/2011 8:44:37 AM |

    What do you make of this 'physiological insulin resistance' and its role in creeping weight gain on too low carb
    http://www.lowcarbconversations.com/344/22-barbara-rose-dean-dwyer-paleo-guy-weston-price-gal-discuss-body-image-more/#comment-306963040

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/25/2011 1:26:12 PM |

    Hi, Lance--

    I've not heard this argument before. If you've got the references for the studies showing this effect, I'd be happy to take a look.

    In real life, I've not seen this play out. People who restrict carbs, lose visceral fat, drop HbA1c, glucose, and insulin. Maintaining the diet does not, over the years, allow recrudescence of the phenomena of insulin resistance.

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