Lipoprotein testing

This is an update of a post I made about a year ago. However, I'm reposting it since the question comes up so often.


How can I get my lipoproteins tested?
This question came up on our recent online chat session and comes up frequently phone calls and e-mails.

If lipoprotein testing is the best way to uncover hidden causes of coronary heart disease, but your doctor is unable, unknowledgeable, or unwilling to help you, then what can you do?

There are several options:

1) Get the names of physicians who will obtain and interpret the test for you. That’s the best way. However, it is also the most difficult. Lipoprotein testing, despite over a decade of considerable scientific exploration and validation in thousands of research publications, still remains a sophisticated tool that only specialists in lipids will use. But this provides you with the best information on you’re your lipoproteins mean.
2) If you don’t have a doctor who can provide lipoprotein testing and interpretation, go to the websites for the three labs that actually perform the lipoprotein tests: www.liposcience.com (NMR); www.berkeleyheartlab.com (electropheresis or GGE); www.atherotech.com (ultracentrifugation). None of them will provide you with the names of actual physicians. They can provide you with the name of a local representative who will know (should know) which doctors in your area are well-acquainted with their technology. I prefer this route to just having a representative identify a laboratory in your area where the blood sample can be drawn, because you will still need a physician to interpret the results¾this is crucial. The test is of no use to you unless someone interprets it intelligently and understands the range of treatment possibilities available. Don’t be persuaded by your doctor if he/she agrees to have the blood drawn but has never seen the test before. This will be a waste of your time. That’s like hoping the kid next door can fix your car just because he says he fixed his Mom’s car once. Interpretation of lipoproteins takes time, education, and experience.

3) Seek out a lipidologist. Lipidologists are the new breed of physician who has sought out additional training and certification in lipid and lipoprotein disorders. Sometimes they’re listed in the yellow pages, or you can search online in your area. One drawback: Most lipidologists have been heavily brainwashed by the statin industry and tend to be heavy drug users.

4) Contact us. I frankly don’t like doing this because I feel that I can only provide limited information through this method and, frankly, it is very time consuming. I provide a written discussion of the implications and choices for treatment with the caveat to discuss them with your doctor, since I can’t provide medical advice without a formal medical relationship. We also charge $75 for the interpretation. But it’s better than nothing.

5) Make do with basic testing. Basic lipids along with a lipoprotein(a), C-reactive protein, fibrinogen, and homocysteine would provide a reasonable facsimile of lipoprotein testing. You’ll still lack small LDL and postprandial (after-eating) information, but you can still do reasonably well if you try to achieve the Track Your Plaque targets of 60-60-60. It’s sometimes a necessary compromise.

Our discussions on the Track Your Plaque Forum have impressed me with the difficulty many people encounter in getting lipoproteins drawn and interpreted. Some of our Members have been very resourceful identifying blood draw laboratories around the country, such as Lab Safe, that will at least provide the blood draw service.

I wish it was easier and we are working on some ideas to facilitate this nationwide. It will take time.

In 20 years, this will be a lot easier when doctors more commonly use lipoprotein testing. But for now, you can still obtain reasonably good results choosing one of the above alternatives.

Is it exercise or diet?

Wayne, a 61-year old retired school superintendent, had been an exercise fanatic all his adult life. If not running long distances and occasional marathons, he'd bike up to 70 miles a day. He did this year-round. In cold weather, he set his bicycle up on an indoor device and also ran on a treadmill and added weight training.

That's why it was kind of surprising that he sported a large belly. At 5 ft 8 inch and 190 lbs, that put his Body Mass Index (BMI) also high at 28.8 (desirable <25). You'd think that vigorous, almost extreme, exercise like this would guarantee a slender build.

Wayne also had lipoproteins to match: triglycerides 205 mg/dl, LDL 176 mg/dl but LDL particle number much higher at 2403 nmol/l (an effective LDL of 240 mg/dl); 75% of LDL particles were small.

I asked Wayne about his diet. "I eat healthy. Cheerios for breakfast usually. Some days I'll skip breakfast. Lunch is almost always a sandwich: tuna, turkey, something like that on whole wheat bread or a whole wheat bagel. Chips, too, but I guess that's not too healthy. Dinners vary and we eat pretty healthy. Almost never pizza or junk like that."

"Pasta?" I asked.

"Oh. sure. Two or three tiems a week. Always whole wheat. With a salad."

Wayne was well aware of the conventional advice for whole grains and, indeed, had been trying to increase his intake, particularly since his basic cholesterol numbers had been high in past. To his surprise, the more he tried at diet, the more LDL seemed to go up, as did triglycerides.

I see this situation every day: The obsession with processed carbohydrate foods, worsened by the message perpetuated by the American Heart Association, the USDA Food Pyramid, Kraft, Kelloggs, Post, etc. Eat more fiber, eat whole grains.

NY Times columnist, Jane Brody, chronicles her (embarassing) mis-adventure following the same mis-guided advice in Cutting Cholesterol, an Uphill Battle.

According to the USDA Food Pyramid, Wayne is not getting enough grains and whole grains, particularly since he is highly physically active. Consistent with the message given by the food industry: "Eat more!"

The food industry-supported Whole Grain Council advises:

Whole Grains at Every Meal
The US Dietary Guidelines recommend meeting the daily requirement by eating three "ounce-equivalents" of breads, rolls, cereals or other grain foods made with 100% whole grains. A slice of bread or a serving of breakfast cereal usually weighs about an ounce.

Want an easier way to think about it? Just look at your plate at each meal, and make sure you've included some source of whole grains. That's why our slogan is "Whole Grains at Every Meal."



By this scheme, if you are overweight, it's because you lack fiber and you're too inactive. "Get up and go!" It's not the diet, they say, it's you!

See through this for what it is: Nonsense. Wayne was overweight, packing 20 extra pounds in his abdomen from his over-dependence on processsed carbohydrates--"whole grains"--not from inactivity.

Instant heart disease reversal


What if reversal of heart disease--regression of coronary atherosclerotic plaque--were achievable instantly? Just add water and--voila!!

To my knowledge, it is not--yet. But I sometimes play with this idea in my head. I could imagine that such a program would consist of a few essential elements:

--A fast or semi-fast, or at least a very spare diet, over a period like 10 days to promote net catabolism. It is also supremely anti-inflammatory to restrict calories.

--High-dose vitamin D, e.g., 20,000 units per day of D3 to fully replenish depleted stores and achieve all the metabolism-correcting effects of D3 restoration.

--EPA + DHA at a higher than usual dose with frequent throughout-the-day dosing to encourage replacement of cellular lipid constituents with the more stable omega-3 fraction of fatty acids.

Beyond this, I'm uncertain. What role l-arginine, statins, niacin . . . conjugated linoleic acid? ApoA1 Milano infusions?

This is simply whimsical at this point. I don't know if such an approach would work. But if it did, you might imagine that it would offer an opportunity--for the properly motivated--as an alternative treatment for angina, advanced coronary disease, a means to pull someone back from the brink.

With the insights gained from our slow-but-powerful Track Your Plaque approach, perhaps we will also gain insights into how to accelerate such a process of reversal so that it is achievable in days, rather than months or years.

The small LDL epidemic

Ten years ago, small LDL was fairly common, affecting approximately 50% of the patients I'd see. For instance, an LDL particle number of 1800 nmol/l would be 40-50% small LDL in about half the people.

But in the last few years, I've witnessed an explosion in the proportion of people with small LDL, which now exceeds 80-90% of people. The people who show small LDL also show more severe patterns. 80-90% small LDL is not uncommon.

Why the surge in the small LDL pattern? Two reasons: 1) The extraordinary surge in excess weight and obesity, both of which favor formation of small LDL particles, and 2) over-reliance on processed carbohydrates, especially wheat-based convenience foods.

The constant media din that parrots such nonsense as the report on CNN Health website, Healthful Breakfast Tips to Keep You Fueled All Day, helps perpetuate this misguided advice. The dietitian they quote states:

"If you don't like what you're eating, you won't stick with it. If your choices aren't the most nutritious, small tweaks can make them more healthful. For example, if you have a sweet tooth in the morning, try a piece of nutty whole-grain bread spread with a tablespoon each of almond butter (it's slightly sweeter than peanut butter) and fruit preserves instead of eating foods that offer sweetness but little nutritional benefit, like doughnuts or muffins. If you enjoy egg dishes but don't have time to prepare your favorite before work, try microwaving an egg while toasting two slices whole wheat or rye (whole-grain) bread. Add a slice of low-fat cheese for a healthful breakfast sandwich that's ready in minutes. And don't overlook leftovers. If you feel like cold pizza (which contains antioxidant-filled tomato sauce, calcium-rich cheese, and lots of veggies), have it. It's a good breakfast that's better than no breakfast at all."

It sure sounds healthy, but it's same worn advice that has resulted in a nation drowning in obesity. The food choices advocated by this dietitian keep us fat. It also perpetuates this epidemic of small LDL particles.

If you have small LDL and its good friend, low HDL, it's time for elimination of wheat products, not some politically-correct silliness about increasing fiber by eating whole grains. Whole grains create small LDL! Or, I should say, what passes as whole grains on the supermarket shelves.

For some helpful commentary on this issue, see Fanatic Cook's latest post, Playing with Grains.

Mini-dose CTA?

I caught this little news report in the online edition of Canyon News , an LA paper, under the title Cedars-Sinai Develops Test to Prevent Heart Attacks .

They report that Dr. Daniel S. Berman M.D., chief of Cardiac Imaging and Nuclear Cardiology at Cedars-Sinai, reports that a new method of performing CT coronary angiography, "mini-dose CTA," has been developed that allows both coronary calcium scoring as well as CT coronary angiography (CTA) at a dose as low as 10% of standard dose. No technical details were provided.

Now, that may be worth knowing more about. If this is true, then CTA may indeed be useful as a "screening" procedure. However, we are going to need to know more: What devices are capable of doing this, what settings on the devices were used, etc. It does indeed come from a reputable source in Dr. Dan Berman, who is well known in nuclear cardiology circles.

We will try and dig for info. Stay tuned.

Wheat-free and weight loss

With a heart scan score of 1222, Leslie could be in deep trouble in short order.

At 64 years old, Leslie had gained nearly 40 lbs since she'd given up a lot of her activities caring for a husband who'd developed psychological difficulties and stopped contributing to the household duties. A tall woman at 5 ft 9 inches, she held her 202 lbs well, but her lipoprotein patterns were a disaster:

--LDL particle number 2482 nmol/l--an equivalent LDL cholesterol of 248 mg/dl (drop the last digit)
--HDL 38 mg/dl
--Triglycerides 241 mg/dl
--90% of LDL particles were small
--Lipoprotein(a) 240 nmol/l

Blood sugar was in the pre-diabetic range at 112 mg/dl, C-reactive protein was high at 3.0 mg/l, blood pressure was somewhat high at 140/84.

Now, with the exception of lipoprotein(a), these patterns are exquisitely weight-sensitive. A reduction in weight would yield effects superior to any medication I could give her.

Processed wheat products were a big problem for Leslie: whole wheat bread, pretzels for snacks, whole wheat pasta. Yes, they sound healthy, even endorsed by the American Heart Association, often bearing "heart healthy" labels on the packages. Don't you believe it.

In particular, Leslie had the number one cause for heart disease in America: small LDL particles, a pattern that is magnified 30-70% by wheat products. Endorsed by the Heart Association? (As I often tell people, if you want heart disease, follow the diet advocated by the American Heart Association.)

Leslie was skeptical, worried that she would be hungry all the time and would have virtually nothing left to eat. Instead, when she returned to the office three months later, she reported that eating was easy, finding healthy foods not containing wheat was easier than she thought, she felt great, finding more energy than she'd had in years.

She'd also shed 30 lbs.

Leslie's lipoprotein patterns also reflected the weight loss. She achieved her 60:60:60 Track Your Plaque lipid targets, small LDL shrunk dramatically, blood sugar and blood pressure were back in normal ranges.

I see results like Leslie's several times every week. For those of us with patterns like Leslie's, or just obesity that accumulates in the abdomen, going wheat-free is among the most powerful single strategies I know of.

If you need convincing, try an experiment. Eliminate--not reduce, but eliminate wheat products from your diet, whether or not the fancy label on the package says it's healthy, high in fiber, a "healthy low-fat snack", etc. This means no bread, pasta, crackers, cookies, breads, chips, pancakes, waffles, breading on chicken, rolls, bagels, cakes, breakfast cereal. I find elimination of wheat easier than just cutting back. I believe this is because wheat is powerfully addictive. It's very similar to telling an alcoholic that a drink now and then is okay--it just doesn't work. They need to be alcohol-free. Most of us need to be wheat-free, not just cut back.

You won't be hungry if you replace the lost calories with plenty of raw almonds, walnuts, pecans, sunflower and pumpkin seeds; more liberal use of healthy olive oil, canola oil and flaxseed oil; adding ground flaxseed and oat bran to yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.; and more lean proteins like lean beef, chicken, turkey, fish, and eggs.

The majority of people who go wheat-free lose weight, sometimes dramatically. Most people also feel better: more energy, more alert, better sleep, less mood swings. Time and again, people who try this will tell me that the daytime grogginess they've suffered and lived with for years, and would treat with loads of caffeine, is suddenly gone. They cruise through their day with extra energy.

Even without weight loss, going wheat-free usually raises HDL, reduces the dreaded small LDL dramtically. It also reduces triglycerides, blood sugar, C-reactive protein, blood pressure. Blood sugar control in diabetics is far easier, with less fluctuations and sharp rises in blood sugar.

Success at this also yields great advantage for your heart scan score control and reversal efforts.

Collective wisdom


As public consciousness and knowledge about health issues grows, thanks to the internet and other media, I predict that:

1) Hospitals will recede into a role of acute and catastrophic care ONLY, dropping the charade of providing health, which they do NOT.

2) Doctors and other health professionals will begin to see themselves as providers of acute and catastrophic care, also. They will stop providing day to day care, such as treating high blood pressure, cholesterol, breast exams, and other preventive maintenance.

3) Instead, preventive care will be self-provided. The public will have acquired sufficient savvy and know-how to manage issues like blood pressure themselves. They will need the assistance of helpful information resources, web-based for the most part. Much preventive care can, in fact, be algorithm-driven, just like following a simple recipe.

All the worries about runaway health care costs will be much reduced, since excessive testing driven by liability worries will disappear, repeated office visits for day-to-day issues will go away. Yes, you will need a doctor and hospital for a broken leg, car accident, unexpected cancer, or non-compliance or neglect of prevention.

But osteoporosis, high blood pressure, nutrition, weight loss, hormone management, cholesterol issues, minor complaints will all be managed by people themselves with the assistance of web-based knowledge systems.

I already sense this sort of phenomeonon developing, though in its infancy, in venues like the Track Your Plaque Forum and other health portals, places where the information being discussed exceeds the quality of information you can obtain from your doctor. Over and over again, for instance, the sophistication and knowledge demonstrated by our Track Your Plaque Forum discussions shows that the public is capable of far more understanding of health issues than many previously believed. Most of our members could carry on a credible conversation with trained lipid experts. The knowledge base of our members exceeds that of 98% of most of my colleagues when it comes to heart scans, lipoproteins, and nutrition.

I am in awe of Wikipedia, the popular online encyclopedia. Five 20- and 30-somethings have created a knowledge base that has now eclipsed Encyclopedia Britannica in size and scope, with equivalent accuracy, and relatively little cost. I'd like to see the same phenomenon occur in health care information, helping to usurp the current paternalistic "I'll tell you what to do" model.

Success--Slow but sure

John is a gentleman.

At age 76, he continues to teach at a local college. He's a delight to talk to, having written several scholarly books on religious topics. He's a fountain of knowledge on religious history and the roots of faith.

John is one of those incurably optimistic people, always greeting me with a smile and a warm handshake. I can't help but linger for a hour or so to talk with John, unfortunately disrupting my office schedule miserably.

John is another Track Your Plaque success story. Though he didn't set any records in reduction of his heart scan score, he did it simply by adhering to the program over a period of two years, succeeding slowly but surely.

John's first heart scan score: 1190, a score that carries as much as a 25% annual risk for heart attack. Among the list of causes was an LDL cholesterol in the 170 mg/dl range, along with an LDL particle number that verified the accuracy of LDL.

Among John's suggested treatments was a statin drug, since I was not confident he could reduce LDL with diet and nutritional modifications sufficiently to safely reduce both LDL and his risk for heart attack. But he proved terribly intolerant to any dose of any statin, with incapacitating and strange side-effects, like head-to-toe itching, abdominal cramps and diarrhea. It was clear: John needed to do the program without benefit of a statin drug.

I therefore asked John to maximize all efforts that reduce LDL, 70% of which were small LDL paricles despite his very slender build. He used oat bran and ground flaxseed daily, raw nuts, a soy protein smoothie every morning, and eliminated wheat and other high-glycemic index foods (including the Oreos he loved to snack on). Because the mis-adventures with statin drugs wasted nearly a year, I asked John to undergo another heart scan. Score 2: 1383, a 16% increase.

I asked John to keep on going. Thankfully, he did manage to tolerate fish oil, niacin (though it required over a year just to get to a 1000 mg per day dose), and vitamin D. With all these efforts, he did reduce LDL to the 80-90 mg/dl range. Of course, John's unflagging optimism was crucial. He did express his occasional anxiety over his heart scan score, but dealt with it in a logical, philosophical way. He understood that there was no role for prophylactic stents or bypass, and he accepted that much of his program rested on his ability to adhere to the strategies we advised.

Another year later, a 3rd heart scan: 1210, a 12% reduction.

I'm very proud of John and his success. When you think about it, he succeeded in conquering heart disease with some very simple tools, minus statin drugs. It can be done, but requires consistency and patience--and an optimistic outlook.

Vitamin D and octagenarians

Roger practically bounced in his chair vibrating with energy.

"It must be the vitamin D! I haven't felt like this in years. I can work around the yard all day and still have energy left over."

At age 84, Roger started out with pretty good health, despite a prosthetic valve and bypass surgery 5 years earlier. He looked 74, perhaps younger.

I've seen this effect now in about 20 octagenarians. A Track Your Plaque Member mentioned this same effect in his father-in-law in a discussion in our Forum. Most are taking around 6000-8000 units per day (gelcap, of course). The average dose of vitamin D tends to be higher in this age group, since by age 80, you've essentially lost the capacity to convert 7-hydrocholesterol to active vitamin D3 in the skin. Most octagenarians start with 25-OH-vitamin D3 levels of 10 ng/ml or less--profound deficiency.

I believe the effect is real, having now witnessed it multiple times. Unfortunately, my observations are too informal to qualify as a study. (I wouldn't even know how to quantify this. I suppose some sort of muscle and coordination testing might yield quantifiable measures.) However, there are some data emerging that show less fractures, falls, improved coordination, and perhaps improved memory and mentation with vitamin D supplementation, though doses often used in studies tend to be lower than what we are using in practice.

I haven't been so excited about the effects of a nutritional supplement in a long time. Vitamin D continues to yield surprises every day in its array of positive and powerful effects.

Could we say that vitamin D restores youthfulness?
Blood glucose 160

Blood glucose 160

What happens when blood glucose hits 160 mg/dl?

A blood glucose at this level is typical after, say, a bowl of slow-cooked oatmeal with no added sugar, a small serving of Cheerios, or even an apple in the ultra carb-sensitive. Normal blood sugar with an empty stomach, i.e., fasting; high blood sugars after eating.

Conventional wisdom is that a blood sugar of 160 mg/dl is okay, since your friendly primary care doctor says that any postprandial glucose of 200 mg/dl or less is fine because you don't "need" medication.

But what sort of phenomena occur when blood sugars are in this range? Here's a list:

--Glycation (i.e., glucose modification of proteins) of various tissues, including the lens of your eyes (cataracts), kidney tissue leading to kidney disease, skin leading to wrinkles, cartilage leading to stiffness, degeneration, and arthritis.
--Glycation of LDL particles. Glycated LDL particles are more prone to oxidation.
--VLDL and triglyceride production by the liver, i.e., de novo lipogenesis.
--Small LDL particle formation--The increased VLDL/triglyceride production leads to the CETP-mediated reaction that creates small LDL particles which are, in turn, more glycation- and oxidation-prone.
--Glucotoxicity--i.e., a direct toxic effect of high blood glucose. This is especially an issue for the vulnerable beta cells of the pancreas that produce insulin. Repeated glucotoxic poundings by high glucose levels lead to fewer functional beta cells.

A blood glucose of 160 mg/dl is definitely not okay. While it is not an immediate threat to your health, repeated exposures will lead you down the same path that diabetics tread with all of its health problems.

Comments (28) -

  • Pater_Fortunatos

    2/25/2011 8:20:12 PM |

    There are lot of unusual and interesting formulations you are using, but I really can't understand the meaning of this one:

    "Glycation and of LDL particles."

    Maybe my english is not the best (I am no native english speaker).Maybe you could enlighten me?

    About the article. Now I realize that during 35 years of life, I had lots of such glycemic  values and not having any idea about effects.
    Do you have any ideea about glycemic index if I eat quite a lot of fruits? (can't control it lately).

    Thank you!

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    2/25/2011 8:50:30 PM |

    Hi Pater_F.,
    I just read this post too, so see your quote shows a word to edit out. Remove the word "and", then it reads correctly "Glycation of LDL ...."

  • Flavia

    2/25/2011 9:05:59 PM |

    Hi Dr. Davis,

    What do you think is a safe amount of carbs to eat in one sitting? No more than 50 maybe? What really gets me is the aging!! I do not want wrinkles!

    For a 5'4, 125lb woman, what would you recommend is the top limit of carbs to have per meal to avoid this?

  • susan

    2/25/2011 10:54:14 PM |

    Thanks for the info about how the body handles high glucose levels. Funny you should mention a glucose of 160…

    I generally stay with the low carb lifestyle. I’ve been checking my glucose on a fairly regular basis and it generally runs in the high 80s to high 90s. Exercise can bring it down to mid 70s. Fasting levels are creeping up into the low 100s.

    Late yesterday afternoon, however -- after a good low carb day -- I succumbed to my baser urges and consumed several handfuls of mini Reese’s PB cups. Pretty dumb, I know.  

    2 hours later, BG = 161  -- whoa, I guess that was even dumber than I thought
    After a good low carb dinner, BG = 99  -- respectable, considering  
    This morning’s AM Fasting BG = 150 – what the heck??  (it’s been running a little high, but not that high
    Large coffee w/ cream on the way to work, BG = 118  -- getting there, slowly  
    Low carb breakfast and lunch, BG = 113  -- wow! Never dreamed it would take this long  

    Well, I knew it was a stupid thing to do. Now I know how stupid it really was. I’m sure my BG will continue to come back down to a reasonable level. I’ve been toying with the idea of rejoining the gym and starting the Slow Burn program. Guess it’s time.

  • Dr. William Davis

    2/26/2011 12:41:00 AM |

    Thanks for catching the typo, Pater and Might.

    HI, Flavia--

    It is truly an individual thing. For some, it's 20, 30, or 50 grams. For others, it's zero.

    Body size, age, genetics, recent exercise, et. all enter into the equation. This is why I am a fan of checking postprandial blood glucoses.


    Hi, Susan--

    It can really be a sobering experience. When this happens to me, I feel awful for several hours, sometimes all day. I've learned that it's not worth the momentary indulgence.

  • belly fat exercises

    2/26/2011 7:22:01 AM |

    Yes insulin lowers blood sugar levels by converting glucose to glycogen which is stored in the liver and by increasing cell permeability to glucose.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    2/26/2011 8:41:02 AM |

    Individual liver condition may influence how dangerous the blood sugar reaction actually is.

    "Fasting, overnight, trigs (triglycerides) are mostly bound to VLDL. But once eat there are trigs complexed to chylomicrons (from the intestine), IDL (intermediate density  lipo-protein, a VLDL spin off), in standard VLDL and even HDL.

    HDL, "good" lipo-protein, is the returner of cholesterol from the peripheral regions of the body back to the liver; it too carries trigs. In the liver hepatic trig lipase enzymes hydrolize (cleave) off the HDL's trig load; and those trigs can then get complexed to both IDL and chylomicrons.

    The re-circulated trigs add to the new trigs certain foods generate. When we look specificly at LDL bound trigs those trigs were passed on over from VLDL trigs, whether if were freshly tagged onto VLDL or from overnight fasting VLDL trigs.

    In the case of chylomicron trigs and IDL trigs the lipase enzymes in the adipose (fat) tissue and
    intestine, as well as triglyceride lipase enzymes in the liver, cleave those trigs into component free fatty acids and glycerol. In practical terms that's when we get fat in a form we can "get fat" from.

    Fat in the liver tissue also causes extra fatty acids to go out into the blood stream and, among other tissue, into skeletal muscles. The muscles of course do have the potential to use fat as fuel.

    Only problem is when insulin resistance starts to develop progressively in the liver, when fat in there messes with our trig balancing act. The back log concentration of intra-hepatic trigs is one of the conditions
    when post meal hyper-insulinism is dangerous.

    Then there is a further complication. When insulin resistance starts to go on outside the liver those peripheral tissues keep performing lypolysis. They are
    trying to burn fat while waiting on blood glucose stuck outside their cells. So even more freed up fatty acids go back in the blood to burden the liver.

    At this stage the liver
    can't re-esterfy (break back down) the burden of free fatty acids into trigs. So more gets built into fat inside the liver and eventually can lead to blockages (steatosis). It is a vicious cycle looping trigs and free fatty acids in a double "whammy" on the liver.

    To recap the immediately preceeding. A new/young/healthy liver takes in a meal, produces some extra trigs and sends it out tagged to VLDL. Once liver damaged/old/fat there are high levels of free fatty acids in circulation, the liver response to insulin drops (liver insulin resistance), the liver passes along meals glucose but the skeletal muscles are full of trig derivatives (di-acyl-glycerides, to be precise), so the muscles don't pick up the glucose either.

    Once an individual's liver fat is interfering with things to an even worse degree there are further complications. Namely the trigs complexed to VLDL get out of the liver less and it is mostly chylomicron trig and IDL trig complexes circulating in the blood.

    In fact, a measurement where total trigs keeps dropping can
    indicate chronic liver disease. And in hepatitis the physical synthesis of VLDL is
    progressively reduced; the virus inhibits protein movement in the liver microsome needed for VLDL production.

    Remember there is a liver triglyceride lipase enzyme. It has several functions and can act as a binder for many other lipoproteins, including LDL.

    Individuals who geneticly, or due to pathology (like in hepatitis), produce too little of this enzyme have another problem. This enzyme insufficiency makes the blood
    level of HDL complexed trigs keep rising (trig can't be cleaved off HDL who brought it back to liver)so HDL can't do it's "good" cholesterol job.

    The same enzyme insufficiency also lets trigs complexed to LDL, IDL and chylomircrons become elevated in the blood stream.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    2/26/2011 9:04:46 AM |

    Cut off my post's theory, too long.

    If individual has no fat in the liver (or minimal liver fat that is not enough to mess up trig metabolism), then blood sugar spike generated trigs not a problem. This can be genetic propensity, liver circadian rhythm co-incidence &/or life style.

    Those laying down liver fat, geneticly impinged &/or life style disadvantaged seem to be getting good advice from Doc.

  • Anne

    2/26/2011 1:14:56 PM |

    Watch out if you are in intensive care. The American College of Physicians now recommends that blood sugar be maintained between 140-200mg/dL. Their main concern is blood sugar going too low. In Hospital Blood Sugar Levels Should be Higher

    They will also feed you an ADA approved high carbohydrate diet to guarantee those highs.

  • Nigel Kinbrum

    2/26/2011 3:05:29 PM |

    @Dr. Davis: Are those your own BG readings after eating oatmeal? If low-carb/keto adapted, eating a pile of carbs is a bad idea as glycolytic pathways are down-regulated.

    @Anne: How about wearing a bracelet with important medical information on it in the event of becoming unconscious?

  • Anonymous

    2/26/2011 3:09:43 PM |

    These recent blog entries regarding blood sugar are extremely simple even to the point of being vague.

    I have found a site that goes into great detail regarding blood sugar, its control, and the problems associated with both high and low blood sugar levels. The blogs entries are so successful that they were edited and published as a book.

    The author continues to blog weekly and includes practical detail, as well as references to current medical science. Don't let the label "diabetes" throw you. There is a tremendous amount of information regarding how to avoid T2DM with improved blood sugar control. How and when to check your blood sugar, using your meter to determine the impact of what you eat on blood sugar, the deleterious effects of higher than normal blood sugars, even what is normal sugar are all addressed and in useful detail...there are even discussions regarding low carb and paleolithic diets. If you want 5-10 quickly and poorly written sentences on a topic, read the HeartScan blog. If you are interested in reading entire well written intelligent essays visit these sites below. I think that the "MD" label misleads many readers. Don't let the fact that the writer of the Blood Sugar 101 sites is not an "MD" throw you. She is a diabetic and has lived with it for several years. Her approach to medical treatment is that it should be "evidence-based" which seems often missing from other sites.

    Take a few minutes to review,

    Blood sugar 101 (general information site)
    http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/

    Associated blog site
    http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/

  • Anonymous

    2/26/2011 4:59:13 PM |

    What happened to the post about the Blood Sugar site? It seems to have been deleted. I am sute that I saw it here earlier. Does anyone know the url for the site. it looked interesting.

  • Anonymous

    2/26/2011 6:45:18 PM |

    yeah i saw it too. seems poster was a bit critical of Dr. Davis last several postings. sorry don't have the web sites mentioned. didn't know that you could delete a post that you don't like.

  • Anonymous

    2/27/2011 2:30:17 AM |

    @ Anne,

    In the ICU, there is risk with both too high and too low a blood sugar.  Perhaps 140-200 is an unhappy medium where risks are balanced.

    'Recent research, including a study in the Feb. 15 issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine, has found that the use of intensive insulin therapy comes with an increased risk of low blood sugar (hypoglycemia) which can be deadly. The study also concluded that using intensive insulin therapy to significantly lower blood sugar levels isn't associated with greater improvements in health outcomes.'

    Many ICU patients aren't eating anything anyway.  It isn't until after they are on the general medical floor that the ADA diet is given, and their sugars chased down to a lower range with insulin and/or drugs!

    Teresa

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    2/27/2011 2:32:27 AM |

    11,000 Koreans studied by Stamford's Sun Kim, M.D. published in Journal Clinical Endocrinology (2011):

    27% had fatty liver (ultrasound diagnosis); 47% of those with fatty liver had high fasting insulin vs. only 17% of those without fatty liver having high fasting insulin. All subjects with fatty liver also had high blood sugar, high trigs and low HDL.

    Participants followed for 5 years; and data correlated on those with, and those without fatty liver who became clinically diabetic. Study conclusion is that fatty liver in participants preceeds Type 2 Diabetes by +/- 5 years in a statistically significant number (ie: no fatty liver = less risk of developing adult onset diabetes).

    Doc undoubtably has new patients and blog readers who have mildly fatty livers that don't think he's right. He should make them hire Revelo to put them through their paces instead.(Joke attempt there Revelo, not a personal digg.)

  • Anonymous

    2/27/2011 5:07:52 PM |

    I am familiar with the web sites that were mentioned in the deleted post. I did not think the post was very critical at all. It only said that these sites provided more detailed information regarding the recent blood-sugar related topics being discussed here. By the way, these sites contain a good deal information that you will only see around here at the Doctor’s pay-to-join blog.

  • revelo

    2/27/2011 7:59:44 PM |

    The martinet in me would be happy to whip anyone into shape who needs it. Seriously though, even the most extreme exercise program is child's play compared to what happens when you get sick. Imagine someone saying to you: "First I'm going to saw through your ribcage, and then I'm going to slice through your arteries..." It's like something out of a horror movie. And yet that is what happens during open heart surgery. And then there are those ailments for which there is no medical relief, surgical or otherwise. Be afraid of getting sick, be very afraid. Be willing to endure any sort of diet and exercise regime to avoid getting sick.

  • Dr. William Davis

    2/27/2011 8:08:44 PM |

    Ni, Nigel--

    No, not my personal blood sugars, but typical responses I've seen in many patients.


    Re: deleted comments
    I have no problem with criticisms. I do have problems with people saying things like "you're an asshole" or similar comments that add nothing to the conversation.

    I now have a zero-tolerance policy for rudeness, but NOT criticism.

  • Anne

    2/27/2011 9:16:04 PM |

    @ Nigel - I like MediAlert bracelets.

    @ Teresa - IMHO, the ADA meal plan is much too high in carbohydrates. It does not make sense to me to cause an elevated blood sugar and then use a medication to bring it down. How about lower the carbohydrate load and use minimal medication? You can find this program in Dr. Richard K Bernstein's book "Diabetes Solution".

    I am T2 and am able to keep my blood sugars in a good range by diet alone by greatly limiting my carbohydrates.  

    I understand those in the ICU present with many challenges to obtaining optimal blood sugar control.

  • Anonymous

    2/28/2011 1:50:55 AM |

    @ Anne,

    I was concerned that anyone without medical training who didn't look at the article linked to in your post wouldn't realize that there are risks to both too low and too high blood sugars in the intensive care unit.

    The comment about the ADA diet and using insulin and drugs to control blood sugars, was meant to poke fun at the ADA.  I apologize.  

    Teresa

  • Helen

    2/28/2011 11:54:36 PM |

    I don't doubt that high blood sugars are harmful, but I do wonder if when they are very transient if the effect is so terrible.  I have always had poor glycemic control.  In terms of going to 200 on a glucose tolerance test, I have diabetes.  But my blood sugars have been lower on a low-fat diet than they were on a low-carb one.  It also now takes me three times as many carbs to get to 175 or so than when I was on a low-carb diet and they are disposed of very quickly - I get down to 75-90 within an hour and a half.  I do think I have a MODY-like form of diabetes - that I'm not particularly insulin resistant.  I'm still not sure what all is going on, but I've been checking my blood sugar rather compulsively for 10 months, and this is what I've found.  

    I'm nearly 45 years old, have great blood pressure, triglycerides of 44 (this may be part of my particular MODY diabetes profile - a few types have genetically low triglycerides), high HDL and low LDL.  I look young for my age.  I don't have any microvascular complications.  I'm still very concerned about my glucose levels, but whatever diet I'm on my BG goes up above 160 with nearly every meal (I can catch it if I test at just the right time), but transiently.  A high-carb diet makes my fasting glucose and between-meal readings much lower, so the overall average is lower.

    Perhaps M-Al is right, if you are  storing fat in your liver, or if you are insulin resistant, it's a different story.  Perhaps anti-oxidant status, overall diet quality, and other lifestyle factors have an impact that large-scale studies don't pick up, since the numbers and outcomes of those with a Dunkin Donuts diet are averaged in with those with a whole foods diet, one along the lines of what Stephan Guyenet suggests.  

    I do think I'm not normal, and a "normal" person with the blood sugars Dr. Davis cites is courting trouble.  But I'm worried about getting too obsessive about my normal, since there's only so much I can do to control it.  It might be that I can be healthy even given the givens.  

    I also think it's worth considering that someone on a low-carb diet often is going to have more trouble disposing of a sudden influx of carbs.  It takes about three days of consistently higher carbs before the body adjusts.  Some people clearly develop higher triglyerides and other trouble on a high-carb diet.  My point is just that the context of one's particular phenotype is important - and sometimes tough to figure out.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    3/1/2011 5:56:01 AM |

    Hi Helen,
    I don't want to over step blog protocol, so this is just feedback. The blood test for glycated hemoglobin shows how the blood glucose dynamic is playing out the last couple of months.

    HbA1c is that test and, I believe, Doc set a result over 5.5% is undesireable. Maybe it would give you some insight to how your ranges of blood sugar are playing out.

    Someone here (thank you sir) recommended summitcountymedicalsociety.prepaidlab.com ; I recently used them. Credit card payment gets you an email prescription (to print out) for blood tests, they've cooperating independent
    blood drawing clinics nationwide and lab results are emailed to you. (I needed their 800 phone # help some and they resolved every issue promptly.)

    Charge = US$13 for HbA1c test plus +/- $16 for processing fee(one fee for unlimited tests, it seemed). Their prices were so much cheaper than other online options.

  • Helen

    3/1/2011 11:51:40 AM |

    Thanks, M-Al -

    At initial Dx, my A1C was 6.4.  After seven months on a strict low-carb diet (like 60 g carbs/day) and a 20 lb weight loss (I'd only been 10 lbs overweight at Dx, for the first time in my life, but I lost 20 during that time.  I've now lost nearly 30, not all for good reasons.) it was down to 6.0.  I'm monitored quarterly and am due for another A1c.  We'll see if my lower readings are borne out by the test.  I don't expect miracles, but I'm doing the best I can.  Some people's blood sugars only come down so much.  Metformin was ineffective for me and insulin would probably be dangerous, since my BG dips so far on its own post-prandially after peaking.

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2011 9:58:46 AM |

    DISCLAIMER, MY ENGLISH IS NOT VERY GOOD and this is loong SO BARE WITH ME ON THIS,I HAVE READ @ printed all this BLOG AND DROVE MY FAMILY(DOCTORS) and FRIENDS @  CARZY 1 ! THANKS!

    So i finally got my  glucometer:  OneTouch Ultra (ahh) + brand new strips (ouch) not cheap here where i live...  my old man  (doctor, lives on a diet of coffee, diet soda, bread pasta, cookies, candy etc, etc, etc + a few drugs... and is tall and "lean") thinks im completely crazy. ( im 33, 78kgr, also lean and muscular)

    so my pattern: OMP-day  fasting
    ( 23h, 24h, 27h, 30 hrs regular fasts) + 3 day wrkts
    (home, chin ups, push ups, squats) rest of the tm im mostly sedentary

    my readings so far...

    D1: 13-4

    10:00 >  71mg/dL >  FS@BS (prior that  day ate a bit of candies... pascuas)

    11:00 >  ERROR (didnt put the right code, got pissed @ didn't test)

    D2: 14-4  (no carb)

    3:07 > 70mg/dL >  FS@BS

    EAT: meat (+)yolks(+) cheese (+) butter (-) water

    4:05  > 81 mg/dL > AE@BS

    5:05  > 77 mg/dL > AE@BS

    D3 15-4 "workout" day (chin ups)  + carb
    ERROR, 2 little blood, !"·$%didn't test  (assumed 70mg/dL  FS@BS)



    11:00 >EAT: (pWRKOUT)

    meat(-) yolks (+) cheese(-) butter (-) tomato juice (+) 350CC Whole MILK+ 100G " 60% CHOCOLATE"  ( 37g carbs. aprox 20@30g sucrose + milk sugars )
    this baby

    http://www.chocolatesaguila.com.ar/uploads/info_nutricional/tabletas_rellenas_3344.pdf

    ( copy paste if u care)

    11:00 >EAT

    12:05 >  75 mg/dL > AE@BS

    12:20 > 72 mg/dL  > AE@BS

    1:06 >  82 mg/dL > AE@BS  
    ( waited 2 long there?)

    2:09  > 70 mg/dL > AE@BS

    6:12 > 67 mg/dL > AE@BS

    D3 16-4  
    ("rest day" upped the carbs anyway)

    "FS@BS"  (didn't bother to test. low as usual, i guess)

    1:00 > ??? mg/dL
    EAT: salted peanuts... roasted in vegetable oil... 100gr (could not find my chocolate...)

    2:00 > ??? mg/dL
    EAT:
    one lean, small cut of meat+ ham+ 6 yolks omelet fried in butter,  the usual 100g cheeses- Roquefort, sardo, pategras,cuartirolo,feta, 6tbs tomato juice, salt, peeper, (napolitanta)

    Dessert: -2-  ice cold glasses of 300CC WHOLE MILK + 2 TBS of Cheap sugary cocoa powder  (approx 20@30g sucrose total + milk sugars)

    3:05 > 107 mg/dL (!)

    - moved my arse a bit and did 2  slow sets of dumbbell squats, (40 reps with16k w total, super slow and easy)

    3:36 > 83 mg/dL

    4:37 > 66 mg/dL

    ok, any comments ? are my number ok?  what makes more sense , eating chocolate ( fiber, slower absrs possible less sucrose, or drinking  milk?  (talking desert here) i do not  eat vegetables, ( just, pepers, tomato juice and mushrooms) do not  eat fruit, and of course do not even touch gluten nor refined crap, and always try to limit my PUFA, and fructose load.

    also im thinking i should test my BS levels differently?  maybe  eating one (large) H fat, H 2 moderate protein, meal per day changes things a bit?  so maybe waiting 1 hrs is not enough ( thats why i used milk x 2 today, and did not wrkout to speed things a bit)

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2011 10:19:41 AM |

    edit, im 68 kgr ( not 78) ... always do the same mistake, maybe i need to gain weight!

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2011 11:01:28 AM |

    OneTouch Ultra Meter
    Eating pattern: OMP-day  
    ( 23h, 24h, 27h, 30 hrs  fasts)


    D1 REST DAY

    3:07 > 70mg/dL >  FS@BS

    EAT: meat (+)  yolks (+) cheese (+) butter ( -)  water

    4:05  > 81 mg/dL > AE@BS

    5:05  > 77 mg/dL > AE@BS


    D2 WRK DAY

    11:00 >  71mg/dL  FS@BS

    EAT: meat (-) yolks (+) cheese(-) butter (-) tomato juice (+)  +  350CC Wf MILK + 100G " 60% dark chocolate"

    12:05 >  75 mg/dL > AE@BS

    12:20 > 72 mg/dL  > AE@BS

    1:06 >  82 mg/dL > AE@BS

    2:09  > 70 mg/dL > AE@BS

    6:12 > 67 mg/dL > AE@BS


    D3  REST DAY (upped the carbs, + added liquid sugar, wrst  case)


    1:00 > ??? mg/dL
    EAT: salted peanuts... roasted in vegetable oil... 100gr

    2:00 > ??? mg/dL
    EAT:one lean, small cut of meat+ ham+ 6 yolks omelet fried in butter, 140g cheese, 6tbs tomato juice,  (napolitanta) 2  ice cold glasses of 300CC W MILK WITH 2 TBS of Cheap sugary cocoa powder  (aprox 20@30g sucrose + milk sugars)

    3:05 > 107 mg/dL (!)

    -did 2   slow sets of dumbbell squats, (40 reps with16k w total, no effort)

    3:36 > 83 mg/dL

    4:37 >  66 mg/dL

    Hypoglycemia?
    any opinions about my numbers, (imm33) should i ditch the milk @dark chocolate and eat "healthy vegetables" and "fruit" (no)


    should i wait longer 2 test my BS? (slower digestion time, one meal and all)

  • Anonymous

    4/17/2011 8:50:49 AM |

    today


    17-4 > WRKT

    9:00 > 69 mg/dL

    10:58 > EAT (6 YOLKS, CHEESE, BUTTER, 1TBS TOMATO JUICE - OMELET + 400GR MINCED MEAT, 6 STRIPS BACON, 5TBS TOMATO JUICE, BUTTER)

    2:07 > END

    DISHWASHING

    2:16 > 350cc WHOLE MILK

    2:21 > 100G 60% chocolate

    2:34 > END

    2:40 > 300cc WHOLE MILK + 1 TBS SUGAR (nesquik)

    3:01 > 71mg/dL

    3:36 > 74mg/dL

    4:39 > 83mg/dL

    5:42 > 74mg/dL

    650cc milk + lots of  sucrose... where is the zomg 160 blood glucose doctor? (btw i had been eating sucrose @ and grains like crazy 90% of my life, now im eating waay less sugar and 0 grains)

  • Anonymous

    4/17/2011 11:57:29 AM |

    edit,

    1:58 > EAT  (not 10:58...)

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