What's the best lipoprotein test?

This is a frequent question from Track Your Plaque Members and others interested in improving their heart disease prevention program beyond that of simple-minded cholesterol testing.

I obtain lipoprotein testing every day on patients. I can tell you with the confidence of having done thousands of these tests that plain, old-fashioned cholesterol testing is like relying on riding a scooter to work compared to an 8-cylinder modern automobile. The scooter might get you there, but any rain, snow, or long distance to travel and you can just forget it.

All too often, lipoprotein testing uncovers abnormalities that standard cholesterol testing simply fails to uncover.

So, among the various lipoprotein tests available, which is best?


There are three commercial tests available today:

1) Gel electropheresis (GGE)--often known by its "brand" name as the Berkeley lipoprotein profile, after Berkeley HeartLabs. GGE uses a gel with an electric field applied to cause lipoproteins to migrate, based on particle size and charge.

2) Vertical auto-profile (VAP)--a form of centrifugation, or high-speed spinning of blood plasma to separate lipoprotein particles.

3) Nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR)--the idea of putting plasma in an NMR (also known as MRI) device to characterize blood proteins.

All three tests do an excellent job. All are competitively priced. All have validating data--lots of it--to justify their broad use (though health insurers, in their vast wisdom, would still have you believe that the tests are "experimental").

But is one better?

Having done many of all three (though least of VAP), I am partial to Liposcience's NMR. (By the way, I receive no fees from Liposcience to use their test, nor to promote it in any way.)

I believe NMR is superior in a few ways:

1) I believe that the LDL particle number is the best way to truly quantify LDL, better than apoprotein B and "direct" LDL.

2) It provides what I believe to be more accurate small LDL measures.

3) It provides intermediate-density lipoprotein (IDL), a post-prandial, or after-eating, measure not available on the other two.

Perhaps I'm biased because I use the NMR most frequently. But I've used it because I felt it yielded superior, more clinically believable, data.

In truth, all three laboratories do an excellent job and you'd be served fine by obtaining any of the three. But my heart goes to NMR.

Vitamin K2, aspirin, fish oil and blood thinning

An interesting question came up from one of our Track Your Plaque Members on the Forum.

"I am now taking 9 mg of vitamin K1 and 1000 mcg of K2.

Does taking this supplement with this much K1 have a counteracting effect on the thinning/anticlotting properties of aspirin and fish oil that I also take?"


Great question (along with lots of other greater discussions we have on the Forum.)

The answer: Vitamin K should have no effect on the platelet-blocking effects of aspirin or fish oil. The majority of blood clot inhibiting effects of aspirin and fish oil arise from their ability to keep blood platelets from "clumping" (just like the TV commercials for Plavix).

Vitamin K, on the other hand, participates in the liver production of blood clotting factors (like II, VII, IX, and X, among others for you curious ones).

Thus, vitamin K-dependent clotting factors and platelet-blocking are two separate pathways to forming blood clots. Some of us refer to the difference as "red clots" from the vitamin K pathway and "white clots" from the platelet pathway, since they really do have this different physical appearance.

The vitamin K2 conversation, like that about vitamin D, is fascinating for its potential to provide the missing link between the tightly-tied fortunes of bone health and atherosclerosis. Why is someone with a high CT heart scan score far more likely to have osteoporosis? Vitamin D and K2 deficiency may provide the missing link for many people.

"Drug no cure for gluttony"

That's the headline I'd like to see associated with rosiglitazone, brand name Avandia.

The recent negative press, whether deserved or not, surrounding the prescription drug rosiglitazone for pre-diabetes and diabetes highlights the fact that drugs never--never--substitute for what we can achieve with lifestyle changes.

Typically, rosiglitazone reduces blood sugar a few milligrams, reduces C-reactive protein, and very modestly reduces triglycerides and its associated evil lipoprotein friends. It also causes an average weight gain of 8 lb in the first year of use.

What will weight loss achieve, especially if accomplished through dramatic reduction or elimination of processed carbohydrates and wheat products, along with fish oil supplementation, vitamin D normalization, and exercise? Extraordinary benefits, far superior to what is achievable with this drug. In fact, while rosiglitazone is a Band-Aid for this process, the lifestyle changes can represent a cure in many or most instances.

It should come as no surprise that a drug that does nothing more than increase sensitivity to insulin cannot erase the devastating effects of an unhealthy life. Take rosiglitazone but neglect exercise, don't bother with vitamin D, indulge in pretzels and breakfast cereals, gain more weight . . . It serves the drug company's agenda better than it serves health.

Rosiglitazone not so rosy?

Dr. Steve Nissen of the Cleveland Clinic published a study that suggests that the pre-diabetes and diabetes drug, rosiglitazone, may increase likelihood of heart attack by 43%.

I say "suggests" because the analysis was something called a "meta-analysis", a re-examination of data obtained by pooling unrelated studies and reanalyzing the data. Strengths of this sort of analysis: Sometimes trends that are not evident in smaller studies finally become evident in the larger numbers of participants obtained through pooling of data. Downside: Any statistician will tell you that a meta-analysis can only suggest an association, it cannot prove it.

Nonetheless, we are talking about people's lives. As they say, if you are taking this drug, also known by the brand name, Avandia, then talk to your doctor. I think that this is sound advice, as there are a number of factors to weigh in decision making. For instance, how far along the diabetic path are you? Have you had negative experiences with other agents?

It will, unfortunately, be months to years before confirmatory evidence on this question become available. In the meantime, Nissen will accuse the drug industry of pushing drugs through the FDA approval process without full safety data. GlaxoSmithKline, the manufacturer of Avandia, will counter with claims of weak data, the existing trials not confirming Nissen's findings, etc. We've seen it before.

My take on this is to step back and look at the broad picture. Do we need yet another reason to say that it's far better to maintain normal body weight, dramatically reduce reliance on processed carbohydrates and wheat, exercise, and following other insulin-sensitizing strategies, rather than rely on insulin-sensitizing drugs? (That's what rosiglitazone is supposed to do.) Metabolic syndrome, also known as pre-diabetes, or diabetes is present to various degrees in two thirds of all adults I meet. Nearly all of it is self-inflicted. Nearly all of it is curable with the above lifestyle strategies if undertaken early enough in the process.

A 190 lb, 5 foot 2 inch woman, or a 220 lb, 5 foot 10 inch man, both of whom are surprised that they have pre-diabetes really need to get a grip on reality and health. To me, it's no surprise that drugs do not reverse all the nasty manifestations of lifestyle gone berserk. It should also come as no surprise that the complex, chaotic physiologic mess created by metabolic syndrome and pre-diabetes is not perfectly managed by adding one drug.

The lipid distorting effects of weight loss

Roger experienced a near-fatal heart attack 6 years ago. He survived thanks to the quick action of bystanders who initiated CPR and called 911. An emergency catheterization was performed and a stent implanted into the closed right coronary artery. But that's not why I tell Roger's story.

Since then, Roger has become comfortable with the idea that he has heart disease. His initial commitment to good nutrition and exercise has waned, as it often does in us distractable humans. So Roger gained about 30 lbs through a long winter, inactivity, eating frozen dinners, and the cookies and baked goodies his daughters made him.

As a result of the weight gain and inactivity, Roger's HDL dropped to 32 mg/dl, triglycerides rose to 211 mg/dl, blood sugar crept up into the pre-diabetic range of 116 mg/dl. Undoubtedly, small LDL was out of control beneath the surface. His tummy reflected the weight gain, flaccid and overhanging his belt.

I read Roger the riot act. I reminded him of what he had experienced and nearly didn't survive. Weight loss and a re-invigoration of his nutrition and exercise efforts was going to be crucial.

Roger listened and took it to heart. Over three months, he lost 24 lbs, a phenomenal result. However, his repeat lipid panel showed an HDL of 28 mg/dl, triglycerides 234 mg/dl, blood sugar unchanged.

"I don't get it! I lose all this weight and the number get worse?!" Roger was understandably upset after his enormous effort.

I told Roger that after a profound weight loss, lipids can go berserk for up to two months after weight has stabilized. Typically, HDL drops and triglycerides rise--the opposite of what we want. But wait another two or so months after weight has stabilized and the numbers begin to look beautiful.

Why does this crazy effect happen? I really don't know and I've never heard a satisfactory explanation for it. But it is very real and quite predictable.

The lesson: after a substantial weight loss, be patient. Check your lipid numbers too soon and you might be confused or disappointed. If you do check them, bear in mind that additional time may need to pass before you see the weight loss fully reflected.

Cholesterol reduction and wheat

In my previous post, Identical twins and the explosive influence of weight , we witnessed an excellent example of the profound influence of food choices and weight control on lipoproteins. The heavier twin among these 35-year old male twins (Steve) had an LDL particle number over two-fold higher than his more slender counterpart (Alfred).

The heavier twin, Steve, got here through numerous and longstanding dietary excesses: fast foods, saturated fats, sweets, processed foods. The conventional answer to Steve's lipid dilemma would be to modestly reduce his reliance on saturated fat, exercise, and limit snacks.

How far would that get Steve? Not very far at all. With regards to his high LDL particle number of 2256 nmol/l (representing an "effective" LDL cholesterol of around 225 mg/dl), it would be reduced a little, perhaps 10%.

Notice, however, that 72% of all Steve's LDL particles are small (1639/2256). This is the pattern that responds dramatically to a sharp reduction in processed carbohydrates, especially wheat-containing products.

If Steve were to eliminate all wheat products--all breads, breakfast cereals, pretzels, cookies, cakes, pasta, crackers--LDL particle number will drop dramatically, perhaps 50%, often more depending on the magnitude of weight loss. Small LDL will respond most obviously and will be sharply reduced, perhaps disappear. Incidentally, these changes might not be well reflected by the conventional calculated LDL cholesterol, since small LDL particles are well-concealed by standard measures.

Reducing corn products, white and brown rice, and potatoes would also add to the effect. But, in 2007, wheat products represent 90% of the problem for the majority of people. Reducing or eliminating wheat therefore yields the biggest effect by a long shot.

Steve therefore represents an excellent example of how reducing processed carbohydrates, esp. wheat-containing products, can yield an unexpected and paradoxical reduction in LDL cholesterol as evidenced by the highly accurate LDL particle number (or apoprotein B). Reducing saturated fat sources also helps, but it certainly will not yield the kind of results most people need. You've got to be smarter than the simple-minded conventional advice.

Identical twins and the explosive influence of weight

A Track Your Plaque member, Eugene, brought this fascinating story to my attention.

Eugene has two nephews, identical twins aged 35 years. Despite their similar personalities and appearances, somehow these two drifted apart in weight with Steve outweighing Alfred by 30 lbs.

Eugene explains:

These guy's are big not, but overly fat. Just big. One is about 30 lbs heaver than the other. They live 2 blocks apart, they ate the same (together) meal the night before the blood work. Their mother is a type 2 diabetic with a heart condition. Steve does not eat as well as his twin, junk food and a lot of processed starches.


Their results:



LDL-Particle number
Alfred 900
Steve 2256

Small LDL-P
Alfred 400
Steve 1639

HDL-C
Alfred 44
Steve 36

Triglycerides
Alfred 85
Steve 355

Metabolic Syn.
Alfred no
Steve yes


Glucose

Fasting
Alfred 93
Steve 112

1hour
Alfred 134
Steve 206

2 hour
Alfred 105
Steve 172


Identical twins begin with the very same genetic background. As these two graphically illustrate, weight can have a profound influence in the genetically susceptible.

LDL particle number alone is 250% greater in the heavier twin. The dreaded small LDL particle is over 400% worse! Look also at the dramatic differences in blood sugar.

If you ever had any doubts about the importance of excess weight and nutrition, just remind yourself of this fascinating illustration.

Thanks, Eugene.

Low-fat diets raise triglycerides

Martin, a hospital employee, knowing that I fuss a great deal with lipids and lipoproteins, showed me his lipid panel because the result triggered a "panic value" for triglycerides at 267 mg/dl. He asked if he should go on a serious low-fat diet.

I asked Martin what he had for breakfast: a whole wheat bagel with no-added-sugar jam. Lunch: a turkey sub on whole grain bread, no mayonnaise. Snacks: baked chips, pretzels ("a low-fat snack!").

In years past, if person developed high triglycerides levels, a very low-fat diet was prescribed. Someone would come to the hospital, for instance, with abdominal pain from pancreatitis (an inflamed pancreas)due to the damaging effects of triglyceride levels >1000 mg/dl. For this reason, many people still believe that all instances of elevated triglycerides should be treated with a reduction in fat intake.

This is absolutely wrong. While a fat restriction may reduce triglycerides in genetically-programmed responses when triglycerides are >1000 mg/dl, lesser levels of high triglycerides of, say 250 or 300 mg/dl, do not respond to dietary fat restrictions as a sole strategy.

Yes, a reduction in unhealthy fats (saturated, trans, polyunsaturated) helps. But a reduction in fats of all sorts is not necessary and can, in fact, worsen the problem. We learned this lesson years ago with the Ornish diet and similar ultra low-fat approaches. When you reduce fat intake significantly to <10% of calories, triglycerides go way up. In those days, it wasn't uncommon to see triglycerides skyrocket past 200 or 300 mg/dl on these diets.

Why are triglycerides important? Triglycerides are an ingredient in creating the lipoproteins VLDL, IDL, small LDL. Elevated triglycerides trigger a drop in HDL, a shift towards small, ineffective HDL, and contribute to heightened inflammation. Higher triglycerides also tend to go hand in hand with lipoproteins that persist for extended periods (12-24 hours or longer) in the blood after a meal.

Triglycerides respond very nicely to a dramatic reduction in processed carbohydrates, especially wheat and corn. Of course, wheat is the bulk of the problem, since it has grown to occupy an enormous role in many people's diet, not uncommonly eaten 3,4, or 5 times per day in various forms, as it has in Martin's diet. Eliminating all sources of high-fructose corn syrup is also helpful, since high-fructose corn syrup shoots triglycerides way up. (Recall that high-fructose corn syrup is everywhere: ketchup, beer, low-fat or non-fat salad dressings, breads, fruit drinks, sports drinks, breakfast cereals, etc.)

Curiously, it is a fat that also powerfully reduces triglycerides in the form of fish oil. In the Track Your Plaque program, fish oil, taken at truly effective doses of 4000 mg per day or more (to provide at least 1200 mg EPA+DHA), is our number one choice after reduction of processed carbohydrates for reduction of high triglycerides.

The dreaded niacin "flush"

As most anybody who takes niacin knows, it can cause a hot flushed feeling over the chest and face that is generally harmless, though quite annoying.

Many doctors are frightened by this response and will warn patients off from niacin. Some people who take niacin are so annoyed that they find it intolerable.

However, a very simple maneuver can relieve the hot flush in over 90% of instances: Drink water. Let me explain.

I usually instruct patients to take niacin at dinnertime. That way, food slows absorption modestly. I also ask them to drink water with dinner. If the flush occurs after dinner (usually 30-60 minutes later), then drinking two 8-12 oz glasses of water immediately breaks the flush within 3 minutes in the great majority of people. It's quite dramatic.

Doing this around dinner (lunch works just as well) allows sufficient time to clear the excess water from your body before bedtime and spare you the aggravation of disrupted sleep to urinate. Drinking plenty of water works most of the time. Only an occasional person will need to take a 325 mg uncoated aspirin to more fully break the flush. I generally suggest that patients keep the uncoated aspirin in reserve if the water doesn't provide relief within a few minutes.

Thankfully, the intensity of the niacin flush lessens, often disappears, with chronic use.

Why do some people develop the flush and other don't? It is believed that some people metabolize niacin more rapidly to a compound called nicotinuric acid, a niacin metabolite that causes dilation (relaxation) of skin capillaries--thus the flush. The rapidity of converting niacin to nicotinuric acid is determined genetically.

An occasional person really struggles with niacin to the point of intolerance. However, on the positive side, these people may also be "hyper-responders" to niacin, i.e., they show exagerated benefits in raising HDL, reducing small LDL, etc., from small doses such as 250 mg per day.

If you experience the hot flush of niacin, think water to put out the fire.

A cure for pessimism?

Followers of the Track Your Plaque program know that we place great value on having an optimistic outlook. Not only are you more likely to be happy and successful in life, you are also far more likely to drop your CT heart scan score. Virtually everyone who has succeeded in dropping their heart scan score dramatically has been an optimist, including our most recent record holder who dropped his score an astounding 51%.

But what if you are a pessimist, someone who gripes and complains about everything, sees the bad in other people, blames others for anything and everything that goes wrong--yet you still desire to drop your heart scan score? Are you a lost cause? Should you just give up?

I don't think so. I will admit that, of all the hurdles we encounter in trying to purposefully stop or reduce heart scan scores, overcoming a pessimistic attitude is probably the toughest. Tougher than being overweight, maybe tougher than even Lp(a).

Perhaps there's a solution in two years of psychotherapy sessions with a counselor, or exploring unresolved childhood conflicts with a psychologist, or an antidepressant drug. Pessimism is, after all, a deeply-ingrained pattern of behavior, something that can't be changed just by suggesting it or simple self-realization.

The closest thing I know of to a quick and relatively easy solution for converting a pessimist to an optimist is very simple:

Do good things for other people.

Something peculiar happens to the pessimist when he/she starts to help others. They are less threatened by other people (since much griping is really fear in disguise), begin to see others as vulnerable creatures who could use their help rather than sources of annoyance, and a kinship with others is acquired.

Doing good things can mean giving blood, donating money to the Sierra Club or other charity, volunteering with the Boy Scouts, tipping the hard working waitress trying to pay for college more generously, paying compliments to people around you, helping a neighbor carry the groceries when you see him struggling, showing a child how to make a paper airplane . . .

Good deeds can take a million different forms. But it must involve you personally. It can't mean delegating a helpful activity to your spouse. You must also do it frequently, not just once a year. It doesn't have to cost money, it doesn't have to involve a lot of time (though your personal bodily involvement does yield the greatest return in optimism). These are things anyone can do and help make the world around you a little better.

If taking these small steps towards an optimistic attitude are too much for you, then I would worry that you are destined to fail in dropping your heart scan score.

Letter from the insurance company

Letter from the insurance company

Claudia got this letter from her health insurance company:

Dear Ms. ------,

Based on a recent review of your cholesterol panel of January 12, 2011, we feel that you should strongly consider speaking to your doctor about cholesterol treatment.

Reducing cholesterol values to healthy levels has been shown to reduce heart attack risk . . .


Okay. So the health insurer wants Claudia to take a cholesterol drug in the hopes that it will reduce their exposure to the costs for her future heart catheterization, angioplasty and stent, or bypass surgery. This is understandable, given the extraordinary costs of such hospital services, typically running from $40,000 for a several hour-long outpatient catheterization procedure, to as much as $200,000 for a several day long stay for coronary bypass surgery.

So what's the problem?

Here are Claudia's most recent lipid values:

LDL cholesterol 196 mg/dl
HDL 88 mg/dl
Triglycerides 37 mg/dl
Total cholesterol 291 mg/dl

By the criteria followed by her health insurer, both total and LDL cholesterol are much too high. Note, of course, that LDL cholesterol was a calculated value, not measured.

Here are Claudia's lipoproteins, drawn simultaneously with her lipids:

LDL particle number 898 nmol/L
Small LDL particle number less than 90 nmol/L (Values less than 90 are not reported by Liposcience)

LDL particle number is, by far and away, the best measure of LDL particles, an actual count of particles, rather than a guesstimate of LDL particles gauged by measuring cholesterol in the low-density fraction of lipoproteins (i.e., LDL cholesterol). It is also measured and is highly reproducible.

To convert LDL particle number in nmol/L to an LDL cholesterol-like value in mg/dl, divide by ten (or just drop the last digit).

Claudia's measured LDL is therefore 89 mg/dl--54% lower than the crude calculated LDL suggests.

This is because virtually all of Claudia's LDL particles are large, with little or no small. This situation throws off the crude assumptions built into the LDL calculation, making it appear that she has very high LDL cholesterol.

Do you think that Big Pharma advertises this phenomenon?

Comments (24) -

  • Anonymous

    3/18/2011 1:49:34 AM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I think total cholesterol should be 290, perhaps, and not 29?

    I have started using the lipoprofile in my practice.  Patients with relatively normal lipid profiles are startled with the results.  Getting them to make any changes is another thing, but I will keep trying.

    Teresa

  • Anne

    3/18/2011 7:42:37 AM |

    I live in the UK under the National Health Service but I also  have private medical insurance. I know that neither my private medical insurance company, nor the NHS itself, know my cholesterol numbers - they are known only to the lab, my doctors and me. How is it that patient information, which should be confidential, is given to insurance companies ? I find that a very worrisome aspect of this.

  • Kris @ Health Blog

    3/18/2011 8:08:05 AM |

    I find it kind of strange how obsessed american doctors are with cholesterol levels, in my country (Iceland) this is not such a big deal.

    It's almost as if the doctors in America are going out of their way to find something wrong with their patient so that they can treat it.

    For example high cholesterol, thyroid disorders. I pretty much never hear people talk about those things here.

  • Anonymous

    3/18/2011 11:55:23 AM |

    and when she refuses to do as ordered, her insurance company will find out about that, and will then terminate her coverage. Anybody want to make a bet? So much for privilege and confidentiality in the ole US of A.

  • Peter

    3/18/2011 1:29:41 PM |

    Seems very odd, I've had health insurance fornforty years, and they've never given me any advice or indication that they read my lab results.

  • Marg

    3/18/2011 2:22:16 PM |

    Some insurance companies routinely require physical examinations before they will write life insurance and are happy to find any reason not to write the insurance. Could this have been a life insurance company?

  • Galina L.

    3/18/2011 2:33:23 PM |

    What do you think is the best line of defense for the patient? My husband has similar calculated LDL - 181, the rest of numbers are excellent and he is in a very good health at 50 years old. Blood pressure is excellent(115/65), pulse is 45 at rest, fasting BS is 76. Our doctor admits it, but recommends Lipitor anyway. Our health insurance is about to be changed and it makes me worry about perspective pressure from insurance people on my husband to take that Lipitor.

  • Anonymous

    3/18/2011 2:37:48 PM |

    How does an individual give honest answers on health questionaires when applying for new or additional life or health insurance?  If they ask my PCP they would be told that I am low risk for heart attack.   If they look at my CT scan score they would see that I am in the 90th percentile - high risk.
    These are hypothetical questions at this point but my inclination would be to base my answer on my PCP's opinion rather than my calcium score, in part because medical insurance does not cover CT scans (apparently because they don't consider them to be a reliable predictor of risk) and in part because I have taken steps to significantly reduce my risk.

  • Anonymous

    3/18/2011 2:41:21 PM |

    Let's name names!  I have coverage by United Health Care through an employer.  I have gotten several letters in the past couple of years telling me I NEED this test, or that that test, to maintain my good health!  [However, never anything about the value of lipoprofile testing!]

    I consider this an abhorrent practice, an invasion of my privacy, and totally reject their "advice".  Advice should be coming from my doctor, and in fact it is.  I don't need their nurse "case manager" nor this advocacy for excessive testing.

    There's nothing like a letter from an insurance company to raise blood pressure!

    madcook

  • Barbara

    3/18/2011 4:35:25 PM |

    It is very disturbing to me that 1) her health insurance has access to her medical records and 2) that a for-profit organization is getting involved in her healthcare. Having moved from Australia about five years ago, everything about American health care disturbs me. I trust no one; they all seem to be desiring a profit and therefore paperwork is their main concern, not patient care, health, or longevity.

  • Jonathan

    3/18/2011 6:31:50 PM |

    My last test showed calculate LDL at 208, however the one from three months ago was "directly measured lipid" and showed 263 LDL direct, so might the calculated version be wrong in either direction?  I have pattern A and am FH.

  • susan

    3/18/2011 6:53:21 PM |

    I'm for naming names too!  I have Aetna health insurance through my employer. I don't get letters from them, but I get emails. Just today, I told my email program to automatically delete any further emails from the "Simple Steps to a Healthier Life" program. Plus whenever I sign into the online portal, I get nagged to have all kinds of tests, fill out questionnaires, and join health improvement programs.  I got so tired of the demand that I "fill out a health assessment questionnaire" I finally gave in, hoping it would be removed from the page. It just opened a new can of worms: now I have a half dozen new "suggestions" on my "to do list". Bah humbug!

    I'm of the "live and let live" school.  Why go looking for trouble?  As long as I'm not having symptoms, I feel no need to undergo all of these tests.

    Thank God my doctor is beginning to understand that I'm not going to be taking any of those Pharma-pushed poisons just because my lab results don't meet someone's criteria. Once again, I say Bah humbug!

  • Dr. William Davis

    3/18/2011 7:15:53 PM |

    Thanks for catching that, Teresa.

    It is indeed an eye-opener, isn't it?

  • Dr. William Davis

    3/18/2011 7:17:42 PM |

    Anne and Kris--

    Fascinating non-American perspectives.

    Insurance companies have incredible info on us. I'm always surprised more is not made of this issue.

    Remember: The more they know, the better they are at denying coverage.

  • Anonymous

    3/18/2011 8:19:22 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I didn't want to put this here (not sure if I could post it elsewhere) , but I thought you would find this interesting if you haven't seen it yet.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/p-nu/201103/cardio-may-cause-heart-disease-part-i

    RyanH

  • Anonymous

    3/18/2011 8:25:47 PM |

    Anonymous1 said:
    "I have coverage by United Health Care through an employer"
    Ah, United. I have Oxford/United. '
    Several years ago, when everyone at Oxford (and patients) worked toward a noble goal of "salary" for their CEO of 1.6 Billion a year, they sent me several letters suggesting that I have basic check up. I followed their suggestion. Then, I started to receive letters ... refusing to pay - 100% refusal. Each time, I had to call and ask nicely and politely: "Are you nuts?" They paid.

  • Dr. William Davis

    3/18/2011 10:52:16 PM |

    Though I am not in the habit of defending health insurers, I have found that they tend to provide a benign "you should speak to your doctor about . . ." kind of approach.

    I often wonder, however, if at some point they start to be more coercive. Something like: "You should strongly consider a cholesterol-reducing drug. We anticipate that your premiums may be higher if you do not."

    That would be scary.

  • Anonymous

    3/19/2011 12:50:53 AM |

    Ah, I should have continued.
    In a way, Oxford achieved their goal. What they paid was minimal, but they avoided bigger cost at that time.
    They scared me to death - if they don't pay for what they send to ( with letters firmly printed) which is basic, stated officially in some book as my right, they probably won't pay for anything else. I neglected all symptoms and asked for medical attention when I really didn't have any choice (and in a slightly new climate)
    I was diagnosed with two quite serious conditions - neither curable, but one was preventable and the other was at this time preventable to a degree. I mean the condition would be one only (the result of "bad" accumulation +genes?), less serious and correctable.

  • Contemplationist

    3/19/2011 3:16:40 AM |

    An insurance company has a tremendous incentive to reduce its costs and hence a great incentive to find out the truth. If they are not, it means that something is fishy. Why are insurers not commissioning their own studies? Are they not allowed to? Is it the regulators who are holding them back? Or are they actually stupid?

  • Anonymous

    3/19/2011 3:59:39 AM |

    I have not had any insurers say they know what a patient's lipid numbers are, but they can pretty well tell from claims data what tests have been done, and what medications are prescribed.

    We get faxes all the time recommending that meds be changed or weaned or made as needed rather than routine.  Yes, I know Mrs. Jones has been on an ulcer medicine for 6 months, and we should try to wean it.  What they don't know is that she won't change her diet and lose some weight, so maybe her symptoms would stop, and her symptoms get horribly worse without her ulcer medication.

    Teresa

  • jkim

    3/19/2011 2:57:41 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Based on Claudia's numbers, I guess I should expect a letter from my insurance company and a prescription from my doc for a statin. I won't fill the scrip.

    I'm 65, slim, eat VLC, and haven't been afraid of  saturated fat. But I just got my labs and TC was 476, HDL 146, Triglycerides 79 (I'd had wine with dinner--they're usually in the 30s), and LDL 314!!!

    How worried should I be about these numbers?

  • susan

    3/21/2011 1:57:39 AM |

    Hey Dr. Davis,

    At my last visit, my doctor mentioned my lipid numbers; but even he had to admit that my LDL (157) and TC (234) had improved (from 177 and 255), and the rest of my labs were all WNL. I generally eat low carb -- other than my recent indulgence in mini PB cups -- so I suspect that, as you indicated, the actual numbers are better than the official calculated numbers.

    My doc didn’t try to prescribe any meds this time. But at other visits he’s tried to guilt me into following the accepted guidelines by telling me his “performance score” is determined by how well he adheres to those guidelines, including prescribing all the meds and tests recommended by the so-called experts for a patient of my age with my lab results.

    I also fear that things are changing in this regard – and not for the better. Our government has now decided that we all must have insurance or pay a fine. If I refuse to follow the recommended guidelines, either my insurance company or my doctor, or both, may “fire” me. The truth is, I really don’t give a fig which entity it is (doctor, insurance company, or government panel) that tries to hector me into following guidelines promulgated by “experts” who believe in the lipid hypothesis. I simply choose to believe that I’m in charge of my body and that I get to determine whether to take a recommended med or have a recommended test.

    As for insurance companies getting lab results, I don’t know whether the doctor’s office or Quest Labs has been feeding my results to my insurance company, but when I look at my online health info on the insurance company’s web site, all my lab results are listed. And I’m sure the company is basing at least some of its many recommendations on those results.

    I must admit, having the results online makes it easy for me to keep track of them; but given the ease with which records can be hacked, I fear for my health privacy. And I resent the big brother attitude of the insurance company. I'm a well-informed, healthy adult. Treat me like one.

  • ShottleBop

    3/21/2011 4:50:53 AM |

    Just this past week, my insurance company (Aetna), which has paying for my test strips for the past year and a half, sent me a letter suggesting that I might have diabetes, and should talk to my doctor.

  • jkim

    3/21/2011 1:39:31 PM |

    Hi Dr. Davis,

    I spent the weekend reading your older posts about LDL. I guess I need to get a test done to determine my LDL particle number before my doc and I have a discussion. Thanks for posting that info in such detail on your blog.

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