Synthroid, Armour Thyroid, and the battle for T3

In the last Heart Scan Blog post on thyroid issues, Is normal TSH too high?, the provocative findings of the the HUNT Study were discussed. The text of the study can be found at:

The association between TSH within the reference range and serum lipid concentrations in a population-based study. The HUNT Study

Hypothyroidism, or low thyroid that is signaled by high thyroid-stimulating hormone, TSH, is proving far more prevalent an issue than previously thought. While previous estimates put hypothyroidism as affecting only about 3% of younger populations, 10-20% of older populations (women more so), data like the HUNT Study suggest that, if lower and lower TSH levels (higher thyroid) are necessary for perfect heart health, then many more people stand to benefit than we used to think.

But another crucial issue in the world of hypothyroidism: Is T4 (thyroxine) enough? Or should we be supplementing T3 (triiodothyronine) along with T4?

Your friendly neighborhood primary care doctor or endocrinologist would likely argue vehemently that T4 (as Synthroid, Levoxyl, levothyroxine, and others) is adequate and not subject to the impurities and contaminants of natural thyroid extracts. They would also argue that T4 is effectively converted to T3 at the tissue level, and exogenous supplementation is unnecessary.

Others--most of all thyroid patients themselves, along with thyroid advocates like Mary Shomon and Janie Bowthorpe, along with some physicians--argue that supplementing T3 along with T4 can be very important. They argue that people feel better, have more physical energy, lose weight more effectively, and more completely resolve many of the phenomena of hypothryoidism with T3 added. There are also some data that argue the same.

Adding T3 to the mix may address the presumed poor conversion of T4 to T3 that is peculiar to some people. It may overcome the "reverse T3" phenomenon, the production of a useless look-alike T3 that occurs in some people. It may also (anecdotally) exert greater effects on some lipid/lipoprotein parameters, such as Lp(a).

My experiences adding T3 to T4 have been mixed: Some feel better, others do not. Some show objective improvements, others do not.

Nonetheless, hypothyroidism, or incompletely corrected hypothryoidism by way of inadequate T3, is an issue to consider in your plaque-control program.

More on this somewhat complex issue, along with practical solutions to consider, can be found on the Special Report to be released this week on the Track Your Plaque website.

Letter to New York Times

All right. I sent a Letter to the Editor to the New York Times. No word from them; it's no longer news.

So here is what I tried to convey.

While the authors overall did a credible job of talking to my colleagues and laying out the issues, they made the crucial and boneheaded mistake of confusing CT heart scans with CT coronary angiograms. Sadly, many people who may have been considering having a simple screening heart scan may be scared away by the confused authors, Alexn Berenson and Reed Abelson.

They do correctly point out that, while CT coronary angiograms are fascinating examples of technology and a way of visualizing coronary arteries, this test all too often is being subverted into the "let's make money from high-tech testing" medical model. It's also a test that frequently leads to the "real" test, heart catheterization, since the "time bomb" you have in your arteries might "need" a stent.

CT coronary angiograms are also virtually useless for purposes of tracking disease, since they are not longitudinally (along the length of the artery) quantitative, nor should anyone be exposed to this much radiation repeatedly.

A simple heart scan, on the hand, provides a longitudinal summation of coronary plaque volume. Radiation exposure is sufficiently low that repeated scanning can be performed for purposes of tracking . . .yes, track your plaque.

Poorly-informed reporters can do a lot of damage. As always, you and I must dig a little deeper for the truth.




Dear Editor,

Re: Weighing the Costs of a CT Scan’s Look Inside the Heart

The Times featured an article on June 29th that discussed rapidly expanding use of CT scans for the heart:
Weighing the Costs of a CT Scan’s Look Inside the Heart.

The authors, Alex Berenson and Reed Abelson, stated that CT heart scans “expose patients to large doses of radiation, equivalent to at least several hundred X-rays, creating a small but real cancer risk.”

I’d like to offer a clarification.

Though the authors discuss both CT heart scans and CT coronary angiograms, they confuse the two and use the terms interchangeably.

A heart scan is a simple screening test for coronary atherosclerotic plaque. It detects the presence of calcium in the heart’s arteries, provided as a “score.” (Because calcium occupies 20% of total plaque volume, knowing the amount of calcium tells you how much total coronary plaque is present by applying this simple proportion.) Just having a high score should not prompt heart procedures, since people undergoing simple screening heart scans are without symptoms. However, a stress test may yield some useful information.

On present-day CT devices, heart scans expose a patient to 0.4 mSv of radiation on an electron-beam, or EBT, device, and on up to 1.2 mSv on a 64-slice multi-detector, or MDCT, device, compared to 0.1 mSv during a standard chest x-ray. CT heart scans are therefore performed with about the same quantity of radiation as a mammogram done to screen women for breast cancer, or about the equivalent of four chest x-rays on an EBT scanner, up to 12 chest-xrays on a MDCT scanner.

CT coronary angiograms, while performed on the same devices as heart scans, require x-ray dye to fill the contours of the coronary arteries. It also requires up to several hundred times more radiation. While new engineering innovations are being introduced that promise to reduce this exposure, the current devices being used today do indeed require a radiation dose equivalent to 100 to 400 chest x-rays (usually in the range of 10-15 mSv), a value that equals or exceeds that obtained during a conventional heart catheterization.

While heart scans are most useful to detect and quantify plaque that can help determine the intensity of a heart disease prevention program, CT coronary angiograms are generally used as prelude to hospital procedures like catheterizations, stents and bypass surgery. That’s because they are performed to look for (or rule out) “severe” blockages.
CT heart scans and CT coronary angiography are therefore two different tests that yield two different kinds of information, and yield two entirely different levels of radiation exposure.

This confusion from a major and respected media outlet like the New York Times is unfortunate, because it could persuade millions of people who otherwise could benefit from simple heart scans to avoid them because of misleading information on radiation exposure of a different test.

Thank you.

William Davis, MD

Red yeast rice alert

While there have been some positive reports in the media lately about the cholesterol-reducing effects of red yeast rice, Consumer Lab has issued a very concerning report.

Because Consumer Lab is a subscription website (incidentally, the $20 per year membership fee is money well spent for insightful tests on many supplements, though new reports only come out a handful of times per year), I won't discuss the results of their red yeast rice in its entirety.

However, Consumer Lab testing uncovered several disturbing findings:

--The lovastatin content varied by a factor of 100, from 0.1 mg per tablet/capsule in one brand up to 10.6 mg in another brand. By FDA regulations, lovastatin is a drug and NO red yeast rice preparation is supposed to contain ANY lovastatin. Nonetheless, despite the marketing of supplement manufacturers, it is probably the lovastatin that is largely responsible for the LDL-reducing effect. The monacolins or mevinolins in red yeast rice add little, if any, further LDL-reducing effect.

--Several preparations contain a potential kidney toxin called citrinin. The Walgreen's product, specifically, contained substantial quantities of this toxin.



Interestingly, the FDA has taken repeated action against red yeast rice manufacturers and distributors because they continue to contain lovastatin. In the FDA's most recent action in August, 2007, for instance, Swanson's product and Sunburst Biorganics' Cholestrix, were both sent letters to stop selling their product because it contained lovastatin.

The Consumer Lab findings would explain the enormous variation in LDL-reducing effect of various red yeast rice products. In my experience, some work and reduce LDL 40 mg/dl or so, some fail to reduce LDL at all, others generate a modest effect, e.g., 5-10 mg/dl LDL reduction.

In effect, red yeast rice IS a statin drug, albeit a highly variable and weak one. Although readers of The Heart Scan Blog know that I am a big fan of nutritional supplements and self-empowerment in health, I am a bigger fan of truth. I despise B--- S---- of the sort that emits from some nutritional supplement manufacturers and drug companies.

I am puzzled by much of the public's readiness to embrace a statin drug if it comes from a supplement company while avoiding it if it comes from a drug manufacturer. Personally, I do not like the drug industry, their questionable (at best) ethics, their aggressive marketing tactics, their sleazy sales people.

But, in this instance, if a statin effect is desired, I'd reach for generic lovastatin before I purchased red yeast rice. The Consumer Lab report tells us that red yeast rice IS essentially a statin drug, an inconsistent one that often contains a potential toxin.

"Average amount of heart disease for age"

A 72-year old woman came to my office after a complicated hospital stay (unrelated to heart disease). She'd undergone a CT coronary angiogram and heart scan as part of a pre-operative evaluation prior to a surgery for a non-heart related condition.

The heart scan portion of the test (I was impressed they even did this) yielded a heart scan score of 212. The CT coronary angiogram portion of the test revealed a 50% blockage in one artery, a lesser blockage in one other artery.

The cardiologist consulting on the case advised her that the amount of coronary disease detected was insufficient to pose risk during her surgical procedure. He also advised her that she had "an average amount of disease for age." He thought that nothing further was necessary since she was "average."

Say what?  

What if I told you that you have an average amount of cancer for your age? After all, cancers become more common the older we get. Who would find that acceptable?

Then why should ANY amount of coronary atherosclerotic plaque be "acceptable for age"? Coronary plaque is a degenerative disease that poses risk for rupture. While it is indeed common, by no means should it be acceptable.

I would bet that this same cardiologist would be from the same school of thought that would be eager to advise heart catheterization, stent, and other procedures--revenue-generating procedures--should she have a heart attack appropriate for age.

I wish that I could tell you that this silly comment was provided by some peculiar, "everyone-knows-he's-crazy" doctor. But it was not. It was a solidly mainstream physician. He pooh-poohs nutrition, laughs when asked about nutritional supplements, thinks anyone complaining about symptoms less than a full-blown heart attack is a baby. He is respected by the primary care physicians, lectures on the advantages of prescription medications. In short, he is your typical conventional cardiologist.

This is the way they think. I know, because I was one of them. Thankfully, something banged me upside my head one day (my Mother's sudden cardiac death) and tipped me off to the painful irony of the conventional approach to heart disease.

There is NO amount of coronary disease appropriate for age. This notion is a remnant of the paternalistic, "I-know-better-than-you" attitude of the last century of medicine.

The 21st century promises a new age.

Quantum leaps

A reader of The Heart Scan Blog and member of the Track Your Plaque program posted this comment on The Heart.org:

*The facts speak for themselves.*

Dr. William Davis and Dr. William Blanchet, your patients thank you for the low cost PREVENTIVE care you prescribe. The published facts speak for themselves. It is indeed a sad state of affairs, that the larger cardiology community does not take the time to research the data and results you have been reporting. Unfortunately it is the patients who are the victims of the mainstream, inappropriate, treatment protocols, as evidenced with the ongoing high rate of CV death rate.

I am dumbfounded by the lack of open-minded inquisitive curiosity to thoroughly research your claims by many/most cardiologists. Understood, we are all busy, but that is no excuse to stick with practices that do not result in major breakthrough improvements in patient outcomes.

Then again, we are all humans, and when "we" are convinced that "our" approach is correct, "we" tend to conveniently ignore any evidence to the contrary. "We" like to believe "we" have been right all along.

A very insightful book, recently published, says it all in its title: "Mistakes were made (but not by me)."

From the intensity of the comments on this topic, it is clear that we are in the middle of a battlefield. It is to be hoped that the facts will become visible before too much smoke obscures the field, and before the patients are all dead.

George Orwell said it correctly, back in 1946:

“We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, imprudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality usually on a battlefield.”

And, after several posts that preventive care with EBT would be too costly.....

*Heroic*

Prevention is what matters, but it is not very heroic. A hospital that advertises the highest volumes in heart bypasses and other heart "repair" procedures, sounds to many like a go-to place when one gets into trouble with one's heart.

Cardiologists who perform impressive surgical procedures are heroes. Not unlike fire-fighters. We celebrate them (deservedly!) for rescues and life saving heroic actions.

We tend to not pay much attention to the folks that work hard to minimize risk of calamities in the first place.

Similarly, we recently learned that it is too costly to build schools that are earthquake resistant in China. Parents had to look at their children's bodies, crushed.

Is it too graphic to imagine 20,000 American bodies, who died of heart disease, piled up on a field?

What will it take before we make prevention our first priority?


AL, Ann Arbor, Michigan


The reader also tells me that, prompted by his father's death from heart attack while following conventional advice after heart catheterization, he has lost 50 lbs and corrected his lipid patterns on the Track Your Plaque program. The reader is currently struggling with full correction of his severe small LDL pattern and is following some of the advice we discussed on our webinar recently.

Another Heart Scan Blog reader, Stan the Heretic, posted this quote from scientist, Max Planck, in his comment:


"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." - M. Planck

(Max Planck was a German physicist who developed quantum theory, a disruptive set of ideas that supplanted other explanations of energy mechanics of the day.)


I fear that may prove to be the case for heart disease. The revenue-generating formula for heart disease management that dominates practice in cardiovascular medicine today is so deeply ingrained into the thinking and revenue expectations of practicing cardiologists that a preventive or reversal approach just won't cut it--even if it is vastly superior.

That's why it is important for you to take control yourself. You will be the one who obtains and applies the information that saves your life or the lives of those around you. It is, in all likelihood, NOT your doctor who will save your life, but YOU.

Body count

Imagine the following headline:

War in Iraq a growing success: 20,000 Americans now dead!


If a newspaper ran that headline, we would all be outraged, and rightly so. Deaths in war are a tragedy. They are not something we celebrate.

Then why do we hear hospitals boasting about the number of bypass operations performed every year, number of heart catheterizations performed, number of heart attacks treated?


"_______ Hospital breaks 1000-heart bypass per year milestone"

"We treat more heart attacks than other other hospital in the state!"

"More people come to ________ Hospital than any other in the region!"




I hear this stuff on the radio, on TV, see it in newspapers and magazines, even on highway billboards every single day in Milwaukee.

Heart procedures, like deaths in war, are casualties of health.

They are not successes (though, of course, you can have a "successful" bypass). I see most procedures as a failure of prevention.

Death from heart attack is a failure of prevention. Tim Russert's death was a (unnecessary) failure of prevention. But so are bypass surgery, stents, and the like.

Such is the perverse state of affairs in hospitals and health: They celebrate illness. They glamorize it with ads displaying high-tech equipment, efficient staff in scrubs, "caring and friendly staff." But it is illness they are celebrating. Why? Because it has become a business necessity, a necessary strategy to remain competitive and profitable in the business called "healthcare" that makes money from treating people. The biggest return is from major procedures like bypass operations.

Every success in prevention denies the hospital an $80,000+ opportunity. You'll never hear that advertised.

Dr. Bill Blanchet: A ray of sunshine

Another heated discussion is ongoing at The Heart.org, this one about Tim Russert's untimely death: Media mulls Russert's death as cardiologists weigh in

Although I posted a couple of brief comments there, I quickly lost patience with the tone of many of the other respondents. Should you choose to read the comments, you will see that many still cling to old notions like heart attack is inevitable, defibrillators should be more widely available, "vulnerable" plaques cannot be identified before heart attacks, etc.

I quickly lose patience with this sort of outdated rhetoric. However, our good friend, Dr. Bill Blanchet of Boulder, Colorado, has a far stronger stomach for this than I do.

Here, a sample of his wonderfully persuasive comments:


Heart disease cannot be stopped but we can certainly do better!

Goals we must achieve if we hope to solve the Rube Goldberg of coronary disease:

1. Find something more reliable than Framingham risk factors to determine who is at risk. Framingham risk factors are wrong more often than they are right. If you are comfortable treating 40% of the patients destined to have heart attacks, continue to rely on “traditional” risk factors only.

2. Treat to new standards beyond NCEP/ATP-III. These accepted standards prevent at best 40% of heart attacks in patients treated. This is unacceptable, and arguably why Tim is dead today! Why prevention protocols emphasize LDL and more or less ignore HDL, triglycerides and underemphasize blood pressure eludes me.

3. Motivate patients to participate in coronary prevention. Saying “you need to get exercise and lose weight” is not adequate motivation, it hasn't worked to date and probably won't work tomorrow. If you are satisfied saying it is "the patient's fault for not listening to me" so be it, that excuse doesn't work for me!

Currently “good results” consist of being able to convince 50% of patients at risk by traditional risk factors to participate in prevention and hopefully 30% will be treated to goal. Of those treated to goal, 60% of the heart attacks will still happen anyway. Mathematically we can hope to prevent <10% of heart attacks with this approach!

I have personally found a solution to this dilemma. It goes like this:

1. EBT-CAC [electron-beam tomography coronary artery calcium] is the most reliable predictor of coronary events period, the end! Anyone who disagrees has not objectively read the literature. The only test more predictive than the initial calcium score is the follow up score 12 to 36 months later. EBT predicted Tim Russert’s event 10 years before it happened; passing his stress test gave him inappropriate reassurance 2 months before he died. If only Tim had the benefit of a second EBT sometime over the last 10 years he and his doctor would have known that what they were doing was insufficient and improvements could have been made.

2. I treat to the standard of stable calcified plaque by EBT (<15% annualized progression, preferably <1% annualized progression). This correlates with a very low incidence of coronary events. Even the ACC/AHA 2007 position paper agrees with this. This is accomplished with aspirin, omega-3 fatty acids, diet, exercise, weight control, smoking cessation, treatment of sleep apnea, stress reduction, control of HDL, triglycerides and LDL cholesterol and excellent control of BP and insulin resistance plus the recent addition of vit D-3. Meeting an LDL goal of 70 is easy but prevents only a minority of events, treating to the goal of stable CAC by EBT is a challenge but when achieved, the reward is near elimination of heart attacks and ischemic strokes. This has indeed been my personal experience!

3. A picture of plaque in the coronary artery is a monumental motivator for patients to get on board to make things better. The demonstration of progression of that plaque despite our initial therapies gets all but a few suicidal patients interested in doing a better job. I think that similar motivational results can be had with carotid imaging; the difference is that CAC by EBT is clinically validated as being a much stronger predictor of events with progression and non-events with stability than any ultrasound test including IVUS.



Wow! I couldn't have said it better.

Sadly, I doubt even Dr. Blanchet's persuasive words will do much to convince my colleagues on this forum. And the cardiologists on this forum are likely among the more inquisitive and open-minded. The ones stuck in the cath lab day and night, or implanting defibrillators, are even less inclined to entertain such conversations.

While I admire Dr. Blanchet's energy for continuing to argue with my colleagues, the lesson I take is: Take charge of health yourself. If you wait for your doctor to do it for you, you could be in the same situation as poor Tim Russert. This is an age when your physician should facilitate your success, not prevent it or leave you wallowing in ignorance.

The Russert Protocol at work

Without a concerted effort at prevention, heart scan scores (coronary calcium scores) grow like weeds. The average rate of growth is 30% per year.

Keith is an illustrative case. At age 39, Keith's heart scan score was 29, in the 99th percentile due to his young age. (In other words, young people before age 40 have no business having plaque. If they do, it's bad.)

True to conventional practice, Keith's doctor prescribed a cholesterol drug (Zocor), asked him to take a baby aspirin, and prescribed a blood pressure medicine. He asked Keith to cut the fat in his diet. His doctor even exceeded conventional (ATP-III) LDL cholesterol treatment targets.

Keith, an intelligent and motivated businessman, happily complied with his doctor's instructions. Eighteen months later, a 2nd heart scan showed a score of 68, representing an increase of 135%, or 76% per year.

This is the very same approach that the late Mr. Tim Russert's doctors employed: treat (calculated) LDL cholesterol with a statin drug, treat high blood pressure, reduce saturated fat, take aspirin. It was a miserable failure in Keith, whose plaque continued to grow at a frightening rate of 76% per year. It was also an obvious failure in poor Tim Russert.

Further investigation in Keith uncovered:

--Severe small LDL--80% of all LDL was small (despite a favorable HDL of 58 mg/dl)
--Measured LDL particle number (NMR) showed that "true" LDL was actually about 60 mg/dl higher than suggested by the crude calculated LDL
--An after-eating (postprandial) disorder (IDL)
--A pre-diabetic blood sugar and insulin
--Severe vitamin D deficiency
--Very low testosterone

All these patterns were present despite the steps Keith and his doctor had instituted. It's no wonder his plaque was undergoing explosive growth.

The conventional approach to coronary disease prevention is inadequate, more often than not a mindless adherence to one-size-fits-all template crafted to a great degree by drug industry interests and "experts" who often stand at arm's length from real live patients.

Keith's "residual" abnormalities are all readily correctable. He has since made dramatic improvements in all parameters. Among the strategies used is a wheat- and cornstarch-free diet that resulted in 12 lbs lost within the first few weeks of effort.

If you are on the "Russert Protocol," have a serious conversation with your doctor about the continued advisability of remaining on this half-assed approach to heart disease. Or, consider finding another doctor.

Petition to the National Institutes of Health

A petition to the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is being circulated in response to the mis-statement made in an NIH-sponsored study, ACCORD.

The ACCORD Trial included over 10,000 type II diabetics and compared an intensive, multiple-medication group to achieve a target HbA1c of <6.0%, with a less intensively treated group with a target HbA1c of 7-7.9%. (HBA1c is a long-term measure of glucose, averaging approximately the last 3 months glucose levels.) To the lead investigators' surprise, the intensively treated group experienced more death and heart attack than the less intensive group. The conclusion suggested that intensive management of diabetes may not be a desirable endpoint and may result in greater risk for adverse events.

The petitioners argue that the problem was not with intensive glucose control per se, but the use of multiple side-effect-generating medications. Unfortunately, the ACCORD conclusions give the impression that loose control over blood sugar may be desirable.

The petition originates from the Nutrition and Metabolism Society, a non-profit organization seeking to promote carbohydrate restriction.


The petition reads:

National Institute of Health re: the ACCORD Diabetes Study: "Intensively targeting blood sugar to near-normal levels ... increases risk of death. "

This statement is untrue. This study lowered blood glucose levels only by aggressive drug treatment.

Preventative measures and proven non-drug treatments are being ignored by the NIH, ADA and many other governing agencies.

There is abundant scientific evidence proving a carbohydrate restricted diet can be as effective as drugs in lowering blood glucose levels safely. Many times diet is more effective than medication in controlling diabetes - all without side effects or increased risk of death.

I ask that the NIH publicly retract the above statement. It is misleading the public.

I also request that the NIH acknowledge the existing science and fund more research by the experts who have experience with carbohydrate restriction as a means of treatment for diabetes.

For more info, or to help people with diabetes, please e-mail info@nmsociety.org .

Thank you.




I added my comment:

In my preventive cardiology practice, I have been employing strict carbohydrate restriction in both diabetics and non-diabetics. This results in dramatic improvement in lipids and lipoprotein abnormalities, substantial weight loss, and improved insulin sensitivity. This experience has been entirely different from the heart disease-causing and diabetes-causing low-fat diets that I used for years.

I have a substantial number of diabetics who have been to reduce their reliance on prescription medication for diabetes or even eliminate them. In my experience, the power of carbohydrate-restricted diets is profound.

However, better clinical data to further validate this approach is needed, particularly as diabetes and pre-diabetes is surging in prevalence. I ask that more funding to further explore and validate this research be made available if we are to have greater success on a broader basis.




If you are interested in adding your voice, you can also electronically sign the petition. It is optional, but you can also add your own comments regarding your own views or experiences.

Wheat withdrawal

It happens in the hospital every so often: A clean-cut, law-abiding person is hospitalized for, say, pneumonia, kidney stones, knee surgery, etc.

Everything's fine until . . . they're running down the hospital hallway stark naked, screaming about snakes on the wall, accusing nurses of trying to kill him, all while yanking out IV's and monitor patches.

It's called alcohol withdrawal. Alcohol withdrawal can range from tremulousness and sweatiness, all the way to delirium tremens, the full-blown form that leads to disorientation, seizures, fever, even death. Withdrawal can also be associated with a number of chronically used agents, such as sedatives/sleeping pills, pain medication/opiates, among others.

How about wheat?

I wouldn't have believed it, but after witnessing this effect countless times, I am convinced there is such a phenomenon: Wheat withdrawal.

You'll recognize it in someone who previously ate bread and other wheat flour-containing products freely, then eliminates them. This is followed by extreme cravings, usually for bread, cookies, or cake; profound fatigue; shakiness; mental fogginess; blue moods. The syndrome can last for up to one week.

Then, bam! Sufferers of wheat withdrawal report mental clarity superior to their wheat-crazed days, improved energy, decreased appetite and cravings, heightened mood, and, of course, fantastic drops in weight.

Why would removal of wheat from the diet trigger a withdrawal phenomenon? I can only speculate, but I believe that at least part of this response is due to a physical conversion from a glycogen (sugar)-burning metabolism to that of a fatty acid (fat mobilizing) metabolism. People who lived in the up-and-down cycle of craving and eating wheat constantly fed the sugar furnace for years and are enzymatically impaired in fat burning; they've been growing fat stores. Eliminating wheat deprives the body of this easy source of glycogen, forcing it to mobilize fatty acids in the fatty tissues. Sluggish at first, people feel fatigue, mental fogginess, etc. Once the enzymatic capacity for fat mobilization revs up, then these feelings dissipate.

Could it also relate to the opioid sequences apparently present in wheat? I wasn't even aware of this fact until a reader of The Heart Scan Blog, Anne, left this comment:

Wheat protein contains a number of opiod peptides which can be released during digestion. Some of these are thought to affect the central and peripheral nervous systems.

When I gave up gluten, I felt much worse for a few days. This is a very common reaction in those who stop eating gluten cold turkey.


Dr. BG provides a fascinating commentary on the addictive/opioid aspect of wheat addictions in her Animal Pharm Blog.

Whatever the mechanism, I believe it is a real phenomenon. It can, at times, be so overwhelming that about 20% of people who try to eliminate wheat find they are simply unable to do it without being incapacitated. Of course, that might be a lesson in itself: If withdrawal is so profound, it hints that there must be something very peculiar going on in the first place.
The exception to low-carb

The exception to low-carb

I witness spectacular results restricting carbohydrates, both in the office as well as in my online experiences, such as those in Track Your Plaque. Of course, the diet I advocate is not just low-carb; it starts with elimination of wheat (for a long list of reasons). So the diet is wheat-free in the setting of low-carbohydrate.

What does this accomplish? Here's a partial list:

--Weight loss-Specifically, loss of visceral fat, the kind hinted at on the surface as "love handles" or what I call "wheat belly."
--Reduced blood sugar and HbA1c (reflecting prior 60-90 days glucose)
--Marked reduction in small LDL and triglycerides, increased HDL
--Reduced inflammatory measures like c-reactive protein
--Reduced leptin and leptin resistance, increased adiponectin
--Reduced estrogen and prolactin in men, accompanied by shrinkage or loss of enlarged breasts ("man boobs"); reduced estrogen in females accompanied by reduced risk for breast cancer

Pretty impressive. But there's one group of people who can experience unexpected effects with this diet: The 25% of people with apoprotein E4.

Everybody has two genes for apo E; the most common type is apo E 3/3. Around 1 in 4 people have 1, less commonly 2, genes for apo E4.

I hate apo E4. I hate apo E4 because it means I've got to dust off the nonsense I used to tell patients about cutting their fat, cutting their saturated fat. But that's what apo E4 people have to do. But it doesn't end there.

Apo E4 people also typically have plenty of small LDL particles triggered by carbohydrates. Put fats and carbohydrates together and you get an explosion of small LDL particles. Remove fats, small LDL goes down a little bit, if at all. Remove carbohydrates, small LDL goes down but total LDL (mostly large) goes up. The large LDL in apo E4 does seem to be atherogenic (plaque-causing), though the data are fairly skimpy.

So apo E4 creates a nutritional rock and a hard place: To extract full advantage from diet, people with apo E4 have to 1) go wheat-free, low-carb, then 2) not overdo fats, especially saturated fat.

It still gives me the creeps to tell an apo E4 person that they've got to watch their fats, worse than watching Starsky and Hutch reruns.

Comments (60) -

  • Simon

    7/30/2011 10:45:35 PM |

    What does one eat if they are wheat free, low carb, and low saturated fat? Can anyone give a sample day for this plan?

  • Paul

    7/30/2011 11:44:42 PM |

    Have you tried T4/T3 adjustments with apo E4?

  • PeggyC

    7/30/2011 11:48:10 PM |

    How can one find out if one has Apo E4?

  • steve

    7/31/2011 12:38:22 AM |

    Is it possible to have the same reactions to fats such as large increase in LDL, mostly large with little small LDL?  At one point i was 100% small LDL; restrcting carbs and increasing fats of all kind(good ones only) my NMR was 2098 LDL of which 200 were small were small.  HDL was 69 and TRGs 62.  Only way to get these numbers down is to be on statin and zetia.  Thought i was an ApoE 4, but test showed i am ApoE 3/3.
    Perhaps i am a hyper-absorber of fats- maybe as bad as ApoE4?   With statin and zetia i can reduce the numbers to LDL total of 640 and <90 small.    So maybe the high fat diet is not so great even for those who are not ApoE4.
    Thanks for your thoughts.

  • Buckaroo Banzai

    7/31/2011 5:19:21 AM |

    I'm getting my ApoE status tested soon.  I've been quite liberal with the healthy fats (olive, avocado, pastured eggs) and include saturated coconut oil and dark chocolate.  I also have high LDL particles - about 1500, but only 139 are small without statins.  I would love to find out I am 3/3 because I've already restricted grains and a variety of foods that I tested as allergic too including nuts.  I asked Dr. D on the forum if having <10% small particles was good news, but he was still worried about the total LDL.  I guess we will see how worried I should really be shortly.  BTW, I've got high Lp(a) at 26mg/dl, so I really don't need another strike against me in my plaque battle.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    7/31/2011 6:35:43 AM |

    Lost a nice technical ApoE explanation  I spent a lot of my time on to "server error" .
    I'll just lurk from now on.

  • Renfrew

    7/31/2011 12:46:17 PM |

    Mighto:
    Please stay here and enlighten us with your comments. Glitches can happen. I made it a habit a long time ago to just copy my text (Ctrl.A, Ctrl. C, on WINDOWS) before sending it. It is easy and takes no time. Text is preserved and you can try again.
    I for one am enjoying your musings tremendously.
    Cheers, Renfrew

  • Beth@WeightMaven

    7/31/2011 2:17:43 PM |

    What Renfrew said. I've run into this problem on blogger regularly where it decides to log me off while posting a comment. Now I always save any longish comment before posting. Better safe?

  • Jolly

    7/31/2011 2:26:04 PM |

    Digging into my 23andMe data, it reports back on APOE e4 status Smile

    You can find this as part of the https://www.23andme.com/you/journal/alzheimers/overview , or just check the rs7412 & rs429358 SNP's directly.

  • Gene K

    7/31/2011 3:39:12 PM |

    I am an APOE 3,4, and here’s what I eat on week days.
    Breakfast.
    Steamed raw vegetables (eggplant, zucchini, bell peppers, mushrooms, Mexican or yellow squash). Add yellow mustard and dry spices.
    Natto twice a week (1 box Mito natto, throw away their soy sauce and mustard packages).
    Frozen blueberries (1/8 cup), 3 tbsp flaxseed meal, 1 cup unsweetened almond milk - all microwaved for 2 min. Add ground cinnamon.
    Half-ounce piece of part skim milk mozzarella cheese.
    Coffee.
    Lunch.
    Frozen vegetables (California blend – cauliflower, broccoli, carrots) microwaved (reheat). Add a boiled egg, 1/4 avocado, yellow mustard.
    Dinner.
    Cooked or baked vegetables (cauliflower, bok choy, green cabbage, rapini).  
    Sautéed or baked fish (tilapia, salmon, perch, trout), chicken breast, or ground turkey meat balls. Add yellow mustard, horseradish, and dry spices.
    Generous amount of raw vegetables (green lettuce, pickles, tomatoes, bell peppers) with hummus.
    Decaf tea with a 1/10 serving piece of 90% dark chocolate, half-ounce mozzarella cheese, and some almonds or sunflower seeds.

  • Gene K

    7/31/2011 3:43:03 PM |

    My daily fruit serving includes a cup of frozen dark berries (blueberries, raspberries, blackberries) from the Costco Three Berry bag.

  • mallory

    7/31/2011 4:18:37 PM |

    back incollege i did a report on cancer and ottowarburg and i remember this gene being incredibly linked to cancer risk....any truth to that?

  • Dr. William Davis

    7/31/2011 4:48:42 PM |

    Hi, Steve--
    There are indeed genetic predispositions outside of apo E4 that can provide for this response, e.g., apo B receptor variants. What is not known is when you've crossed a threshold of mostly or purely large LDL that is undesirable. Despite $2 billion spent on statin drug-related research, we still have no answer on this question.

  • Dr. William Davis

    7/31/2011 4:50:18 PM |

    Hi, Buck--
    Similar issue as the question posed above by Steve: We just don't know what an "allowable" quantity of mostly or purely large LDL particles are. For a working value, I've been trying to keep NMR-derived LDL particle number 1500 nmol/L or less when LDL is purely large, but I have no endpoint data to justify this.

  • Dr. William Davis

    7/31/2011 4:51:22 PM |

    Great program, Gene, given your pattern. And I am impressed at your courage to eat natto!

  • Dr. William Davis

    7/31/2011 5:06:39 PM |

    Hi, Mallary--

    Hardly my area, but I believe that the relationship between apo E4 and cancer in various sites is complex and modulated somewhat differently than in other apo E genotypes. Some discussion:
    http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/170/11/1415.long

  • Dr. William Davis

    7/31/2011 5:08:35 PM |

    Hi, Simon--

    The full diet is articulated in detail, including scientific rationale, in several reports on the Track Your Plaque website; link above. Chapter 9 of the New Track Your Plaque Guide is also devoted to this.

    As you see, I will be putting out recipes here and on the Track Your Plaque website in coming months.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    7/31/2011 7:28:48 PM |

    even 1 reconstructed paragraph just  lost to "server error"

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    7/31/2011 7:33:54 PM |

    ApoE joins with ApoB and is carried in VLDL and chylomicrons; it is ApoE that binds to tissue cell LDL receptors to start normal uptake. Inside the ApoB with lipids breaks off and heads into tissue cell lysosome.
    Meanwhile ApoE and the LDL receptor head back to that cell's membrane, with ApoE carrying some cholesterol out of that cell to build into an HDL molecule for recycling.

  • Tim Dietz

    7/31/2011 8:32:10 PM |

    I have the worst of both worlds, I think, as I am E2/E4.  Dr. Davis, do you have a specific program for patients with this genotype?

  • Tim Dietz

    7/31/2011 8:49:56 PM |

    So, Gene, I'm curious.  It looks like you have an extremely low intake of protein.  How are your labs and what kind of activity do you do during the day?

  • Gene K

    8/1/2011 4:13:05 AM |

    Eggs, natto, fish, poultry, and nuts are all rich in proteins, correct? I increase my portions of fish and poultry when I go to gym. I also add canned fish on these days like tuna in water or sardines in mustard sauce. I used to consume large amounts of tofu, but stopped recently based on some negative information I learned from a TYP member forum.
    Every weekday I typically walk to and from the train station, 25 min each way. I work out two or three days a week following the slow burn routine; I do cardiovascular, too. I also ride my bike for 2 hrs every weekend.
    I am a software engineer, so I spend most of my business hours in front of a computer.
    Before I learned about my APOE 4, I used lots of olive and canola oil and was a vegetarian, but had already reduced carbs. My labs were pretty bad and actually much worse than when I ate lots of bread and oatmeal every day. In mid-December 2010, I started eating as described above plus taking niacin (500 mg) and Crestor (10mg). I was already taking the standard TYP supplements – vitamin D3, fish oil, iodine. At the end of March 2011, my NMR was the best I had ever had: LDL-P 568, LDL-C 70, HDL-C 55, Trig 24, HDL-P 29.5, Small LDL-P 293, LDL size 20.4, HDL size 9.7, Large VLDL-P 0.7, insulin resistance 16. I don’t have genetic lp(a). I know the results can be better, so I am looking forward to my next NMR due in the fall.

  • TimK

    8/1/2011 7:34:36 AM |

    I'm confused. When you say 1 in 4 have this gene are you saying it's a *problem* in 25% of everyone? As in one-quarter of us should be eating like Gene K (above)? Or is a case where the gene isn't always active or something?

  • Dr. Jack Kruse

    8/1/2011 12:21:31 PM |

    I recently wrote about Alzheimer's on my blog and this question came up in the comment section.  I think about APoE4 completely differently than you do and here is why.  APoE4 confered humans the ability to migrate out of the sahara and north and south to live in climates with less solar radiation.  It allowed us to live with lower vitamin D levels.  Moreover, its presence alone means nothing unless it is accompanied with the epigenetic triggers that make it dangerous.  Dr Davis you and I both know the disease you treat (heart disease) and the one I treat (Cerebrovascular disease) are the same disease just found in different organs.  SO i think we have a lot in common in what we do but how we think about thi sissue is different.  Here is my take.  I posted this answer on another forum and I think it needs to be discussed here.

    I think the ApoE4 story is an interesting one and one I briefly touched upon in my AD blog.......I will revisit it.......but ultimately I dont think it is that important if you live an optimal life from 20-60. ApoE4 means much if you make poor epigenetic choices. I think people who come here do do what the rest of America does.

    The other reason I think it means little is the epidemiology of ApoE4 in those over 80 yrs old. It does not have any major impact on healthy aging once you get to old age. That tells me that the epigenetic signals need also be present for it to matter.

    ApoE4 is like dynamite.......and high insulin and high PUFA consumption and lowered total brain cholesterol (due to altered lipid uptake) are the major lit matches. If they exist by themselves they are harmless......but if they are brought together you are going to get heart disease and AD early and get taken out.

    Dr Kruse

  • Peter Silverman

    8/1/2011 6:24:50 PM |

    So everyone who is eating or planning to eat a high fat diet should get tested for E4, or are there some things that indicate it's probably unnecessary?

  • Jack Kronk

    8/1/2011 8:12:52 PM |

    Dr Kruse -

    It's pretty scary for me to think that maybe I am not supposed to be eating very much saturated fat. If it's true that is unbelievably lame. This is why I'm thinking I need to check to see if I am ApoE4. (How do I test for that?) If I am, then it may explain why, even on a Paleo diet, my LDL is mostly small dense. Are you suggesting that if I keep PUFA very low, like cut out my only remaining source (almonds/pecans), that this could be a key to producing more pattern A LDL? (By the way... I have chosen to eliminate all nuts and nut butters, regardless).

    -Jack Kronk

  • Patri Friedman

    8/1/2011 8:58:31 PM |

    Thanks so much for the thoughts - I am an E4/E4 eating a Paleo 2.0 diet.  As I understand it, high-protein is not a healthy diet, so low-fat & low-carb is not a good idea.  Fat is the healthiest macronutrient, so I'd love your opinion on which types of fat are best for E4s.

    It sounds like you have concerns about saturated fat, and of course I avoid n-6 PUFAs and get lots of n-3s from grass-fed animals & fish oil.  What about coconut oil?  Olive oil?

    What sort of HDL/LDL/etc  numbers would you look for in an E4/E4 as warning signs?  As health signs?

    BTW, I blog occasionally on APOE4 at primale4.wordpress.com, am going to quote your post there.

  • Tim Dietz

    8/2/2011 1:42:49 AM |

    Thanks for that, Gene.  I may need to go your route with my profile.  I'm following TYP pretty religiously and am having my 6-mo labs this month, so hopefully they will be improved from last time.

  • Dr. Jack Kruse

    8/2/2011 3:51:19 AM |

    Jack as I mentioned to you on my blog I think you clearly need context.  I think your epigentics are telling you something.  But here is what I cant tell you and neither can anyone else.......without testing!  You need to be tested to get that context.  I think your diet you posted gave many clues......but even I did not jump to the easy conclusion.  I think your real underlying issue is multifactorial but your VAP strongly points to a leaky gut as a source of the sdLDL.  I think the bananas and cream are problems too.  Your O6/O3 ratio maybe bad and yes......you may have a bad set of allele's for ApoE4......but guess what!  Your HS CRP was very very low.  This tells me that your match is not lit.  So you may only be carrying a stick of dynamite.  Again......carrying dynamite is not going to blow you up.  This is why you need testing to get more context.

  • Dr. Jack Kruse

    8/2/2011 4:05:59 AM |

    We send our ApoE4 patients to an nearby academic lab for testing.  One is likely available in your community because cardiologist and neurologist are ordering this test quite often now.  I think your PUFA content of your diet and of your tissues is critical.  In fact for AD the PUFA content is a major factor.  I believe it is a huge factor for CAD disease as well.  Wheat, Carbs, and PUFA's all drive sdLDL production.  Its not just one part of the diet that does it.  Moreover, the more leaky the gut the more sdLDL one will have as I laid out in my VAP blog that I dedicated to yourself.  I think your case is quite representative to many thousands of people and I am glad we are talking about it here because Dr Davis is a cardiologist and is coming at this issue from a different angle than I am.  I think however when the story plays out.......we will be in the same neighborhood because human biochemistry pathways are constant.  The fuels and hormone status and the situations in our guts are the covariables that make this issue more confusing.  I think people need to know why Apoe4 is important.  It conferred an adaptive advantage to move away from the equator to lower solar radiation and lower vitamin D levels.  This adaptation is seen in many american african americans.  The other interesting finding is that the liver of these patients makes more cholesterol to try to raise the D level and pregnenolone level to offset the deficit.  It never does.  But when this set of circumstance is mixed with a high carb low fat SAD (PUFA rich) it destroys the heart, vessels and brain.  This is what we see today in many parts of the world.  Their diet is now completely mismatched for the original adaptation.  I think if you tweek the diet when you know the epigenetic variables you can easily over come an Apoe4 positive test if youre willing to change.   But you need to test!

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/2/2011 11:01:58 AM |

    Hi, Tim--
    Very rare, as you likely know.
    I believe that you simply deal with this on a practical level, i.e., deal with the small LDL and insulin resistance issues and postprandial abnormalities from apo E2 as you ordinarily would. Then deal with the LDL-accumulating aftermath from the apo E4 component.

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/2/2011 11:07:23 AM |

    Thanks for the insightful thoughts, Dr. Kruse.
    I'm not sure how your approach folds into mine, though fascinating. I do agree that apo E4 is made much worse by the means you cite, i.e., polyunsaturates, carbohydrates that trigger small LDL. This is why, despite the LDL-accumulating effect of apo E4, I focus first on reducing the small LDL component, in effect an anti-inflammatory, glycation-reducing, oxidating-reducing approach, followed only then by dealing with any large LDL-increasing aftermath.
    What is not clear to  me is how atherogenic the large LDL is at higher levels in the setting of apo E4. As you know, one of the greatest concerns in apo E4 is that its effects may not be confined to lipid effects, but may extend into non-lipid effects. But that is such poorly charted territory.

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/2/2011 11:12:52 AM |

    Hi, Patri--
    The formal data on the various fat fractions and apo E4 are, unfortunately, very skimpy.
    Saturated fat clearly increases whatever LDL dominant form there is. However, other forms of fat, even omega-3 fatty acids, also increase apo E4. This become a problem, for instance, when we try to use high-dose omega-3 fatty acids to reduce Lp(a) in the presence of apo E4.
    As I commented above in response to Dr. Kruse's comments, as a practical matter I believe it is best to address the worst fraction of LDL particles first, i.e., take dietary steps to reduce small LDL particles, meaning reduce carbohydrate triggers of small LDL. Then deal with the large LDL that emerge by varying fat intake and gauging effect.
    Odd thing: Even among apo E4 people, fat intake yields variable LDL-increasing effects, quite variable sometimes.
    Also, recall that health extends beyond LDL. So there may be benefits to monounsaturates or omega-3 polyunsaturates, say, that extend to issues like brain and liver health.

  • Melinda

    8/2/2011 2:57:02 PM |

    Hi Melinda,
    Please copy and post this in previous thread for ApoE4 … .
    Continuation about ApoE4:
    % of ApoE4 messes dynamic inside tissue cell so that ApoB turns to use Scavenger Receptors to try to start cascade which gets signal transducer (Specificity Protein 1) to up-regulate the cell membrane transporter protein ( ABCA1, ATP binding cassette transporter A1) that puts excess cholesterol out from that cell. I believe this is where Doc Davis’ stated ApoB irregularities add to the problem with ApoE4 (since normal human ApoE3 works all by itself to get that signal transducer to bind to ABCA1 to work shucking cholesterol) . When cholesterol gets to build up inside the cell the large LDL can acetylate and form excessive “droplets” in that cell’s cytoplasm; while the small LDL can oxidize from CuSO4- and load up inside that cell’s lysosome.

    Meanwhile % of ApoE4 doesn’t just dock with tissue cell LDL receptors and so the macrophage scavenger receptors pick up too much cholesterol laden ApoB/ApoE lipo-protein carrier molecules. Once in the macrophage the same problem of oxidized LDL piling up in lysosome and acetylated LDL burdening cytoplasm occurs; and for that matter, in macrophages, it is down to ApoB to get the signal transducer going if any cholesterol is to be put out by cell membrane transporter protein ABCA1. This is the recipe for risky pro-atherogenic “foam cell” formation; while the individual genetics of ApoE, ApoB, assorted receptor types, signal transducer and transport protein all make it hard to predict how ApoE4 plays out.

    Dr. Kruse broaches ApoE4 in alzheimers and this is in large part because ApoE4 causes the brain neurons to get less than optimal cholesterol from the brain’s astrocytes. It is ApoA1 working in HDL complex that controls the astrocyte cholesterol balance and when there is inflammation there is a risk of ApoA1 mis-folding to foster amyloid aggregations. Low intact ApoA1 and ApoE4 together increase the risk factor for cognitive problems and dementia several fold.

    Diabetics with ApoE4 have that % of ApoE4 as an additional limitation; however, irregardless of the ApoE iso-form diabetic dementia risk arises from their glucose loads impairing kidney tubules, and thus fostering the uremic environment that stymies ApoA1 bio-synthesis. The normal role of ApoA1 is to bind to the transport protein which secures cholesterol into a safe bond with HDL; so low ApoA1 from any factor will challenge the brain neuron over time. I suggest there are individuals whose age impaired kidneys contribute to senile dementia from impairing ApoA1 levels being made and also possibly speeding up the normal 4-6 days kidney elimination of ApoA1 ; and so Patri’s comment on limitation of high protein intake is relevant due to it’s demand on aging kidneys.

    Reply

  • Melinda

    8/2/2011 3:01:05 PM |

    The above comment was written by Might-o'chondri-Al.  He asked me to post it in this thread as he is having trouble posting here.

  • Jack Kronk

    8/2/2011 4:52:20 PM |

    Ok I will test! But I have been asking around how to test and still don't know how? Is this something that I would just ask my doctor about? Maybe I go to the same lab that did my VAP? Since I got my results 3 weeks ago, I have made the following changes: zero bananas, reduced my cream intake by about 70% or so, lowered my overall fruit intake signigicantly, added 2 teaspoons of red palm oil daily, decreased caffeine intake (and now I am doing no coffee in August). I have also decided to eliminate all nuts and nut butters as of 2 days ago. Now my only real source of PUFA left in my diet is bacon, occassional chicken, and avocado. It's weird too, because on SAD, I was probably getting 10 times the PUFA, at least. I cooked in canola, ate loads of grain bread and corn products like tortillas. Maybe adding the saturated fats makes everything more amplified. The only thing now that I am VERY reluctant to give up is starches like potatoes and white rice. If I do, I will surely be VLC again, as I don't eat breads and very little fruit now, and rarely ever indulge in sweets. This means, by default, that most of my calories would then be sat and mono fats. Isn't that not good if I am ApoE4? What a mess! Dr Davis is right about being between a rock and a hard place. Jeez!

  • Jack Kronk

    8/2/2011 5:01:51 PM |

    "high protein is not a healthy diet". you mean specifically for ApoE4 folks? I haven't been tested for it yet, but I suspect I may be ApoE4. I take whey protein daily and eat lots of eggs and beef. I do this on purpose because I do weight training 5x per week and am building muscle. Could it be true that people who are ApoE4 are not supposed to build much muscle? (logically speaking, due to the restriction on protein)

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    8/2/2011 5:20:02 PM |

    Is server cooperating now ?

    ApoE4 degrades more readily than ApoE 3 or ApoE2; ApoE4 protein fragments that get into a tissue cell's cytosol can have bad effect on that cell's mitochondrial membrane lipid binding . This decreases the mitochondrial efficiency  when they try to perform glycolysis for generating energy.

    ApoE4 degradation in a cell cytosol can  decrease the level at which that cell advances it's bio-genesis of  robust mitochondria; this is due to how ApoE4 fragments depresses PPAR gamma expression & PPAR gamma is what promotes making good mitochondria. (Specificly in the case of human fat tissue PPAR gamma is what regulates transcription of pre-adipocytes differentiation into true adipocytes. Hence Avandia & glitazone drugs that target the receptor of PPAR gamma do short out adipocyte differentiation;  and yet risk the side effect of increasing heart disease due to mitochondrial impairment.)

    In Alzheimers the form of ApoE makes a difference; and the brain amyloids react to insulin differently with different ApoE iso-forms. The ratio of insulin in cerebro-spinal fluid as compared to insulin in plasma changes with different genotypes of ApoE.   Alzheimer patients tend to have lowered glucose utilization in their brains with  less insulin and insulin-like growth factor receptors, despite the Alzheimer brain harboring fewer insulin degrading enzymes. Which engenders a paradox whereby diabetic brain neuro-pathy experimentally improves with administration of nasal insulin; and similarly,  individuals  with ApoE4  receiving nasal insulin improved their cognitive function, with the boost being higher in ApoE4 carriers than folks with any other alleles of ApoE.

    Higher amounts of Alzheimer amyloid  formed tangles are seen in Type 2 diabetics and in those with ApoE4; leading to the conclusion that "normal" ApoE3 fortuitously forms a complex with brain amyloids.
    Apparently ApoE iso-forms other that ApoE4 can more readily bring an amyloid to where the molecule LRP-1 (lipo-protein related protein 1) can move that amyloid out across the brain blood barrier .

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    8/2/2011 5:31:26 PM |

    Hi Melinda,
    Thanks for repost, looks like Doctor D hammered his server into shape again.

  • Dr. Jack Kruse

    8/3/2011 4:57:17 PM |

    With regards to the large LDL content.  Again I am not a cardiologist, but a neurosurgeon.  The heart and brain work on the same principles of biochemistry.  And since these two organ take up much of the CO in the body they share much in common.  It is also why when we see neolithic disease affect the heart their is also a similar effect in the brain.  The Apoe4 story is one such case.  But so is the large LDL story.  Cardiology CW today believes that LDL matters.  In neurosurgery today its clear in neurodegenerative disorders we are lacking LDL and cholesterol more often than not.  This is incongruent to biochemistry.  Dr davis has said here in this thread the jury is out on large LDL in his field.  I am submitting that LDL matter little in any field.  Why?  If it did the body would have a specific detailed regulatory control method in place to deal with it and it does not.  In nature, with the consumption of organic, unprocessed parent essential fats rather than adulterated oils (PUFA's) and transfats, LDL cholesterol is supposed to be made up of significant amounts of properly functioning “parent” omega-6, linoleic acid (LA), and is not supposed to be harmful. It is the natural transporter of parent omega-6 and parent omega-3 into the cells. It is thus not critical to lower LDL cholesterol, nor is the absolute LDL number as important, if the diet contains sufficient unadulterated parent essential fats. These are unadultered PUFA's of both the omega 6 and 3 variety for clarity sake.  Also take note that the body has no natural “cholesterol sensor” in the bloodstream—it would if its levels had to be maintained within exact limits; such as, sodium, calcium, and glucose levels are monitored in many systems. For example, glucose levels are maintained to an amazingly tight 0.1% in each of us!  So Nature implemented biological mechanisms if required. There is no need for a cholesterol sensor because the absolute number is irrelevant.  That was my advice to Jack Kronk three weeks ago when he posted his VAP numbers and when I blogged about his numbers.  I understand that Dr Davis may not want to go out on a limb as I have here.  But I dont view it as a limb when the biology and biochemistry support my beliefs fully that LDL cholesterol levels are completely irrelevant to heart disease propagation.  This is why I advocate copious amounts of coconut oil to patients with heart disease and all neurodegenerative disorders including brain tumors and seizure patients.  In fact, my literature is loaded with thousands of papers supporting my belief made here.  I think its long over do that cardiologists start reading "other pathways" of data to reach conclusions that their own field muddies.  As a neurosurgeon, I read Dr Davis literature quite a lot and in comparing the two it is clear that our two fields are on a collision course from two different paths.  I got extreme clarity reading circulation over the last thirty years that cholesterol has nothing to do with heart disease.  Dr Davis has reach conclusions that are quite different from most of his fellow cardiologist as well.  I applaud him.  I just think he is still caught in the lipid hypothesis nightmare and that is the only reason he is not traveling down the road with me in unison.  Since he is a fine doc and one who clearly is ahead of his peers......i'll gladly wait for him on that road because we need him to alter what ails his branch of medicine to get to where we both need to be going for all patients.

  • Davide

    8/4/2011 2:24:29 AM |

    Dr. Kruse,

    What is your response to the fact that people with familial hypercholesterolemia (FH) have an exaggerated risk of CVD versus those who are not lacking ldl receptors? Why do so many of them have cardiac events in their 20's and 30's? Surely, you would not relegate this phenomenon to increased consumption of PUFA's and/or higher insulin?

  • Dr. Jack Kruse

    8/4/2011 4:21:16 PM |

    There are five major classes of FH due to LDLR mutations.  FH is a collection of genetic defects.  Many believe that the end result of these defects (IE high LDL or cholesterol) cause the diseases associated with it.  I do not.  Why?  When these people live past their 6th decade they have extremely low levels of neurodegeneration.  I believe the cause of the early on set  CAD is tied to secondary effects of what the primary genetic disease does to the liver to alter its function.  If one looks at FH patients and their VAP results one sees a pattern of chronic gut inflammation that is the real source of the atherosclerosis that causes higher incidences we see in FH.   These patients all have altered gut biofilms and some of the lowest levels of Vit K2 and vit D.  They also have extremely low DHEA S and pregnenolone levels are pointing to a chronic inflammation......due not to the high cholesterol level but to an altered gut axis.  Read my blog on this here.    http://jackkruse.com/your-vap-brain-love-not-war/   My views on this topic are radically different because even with severe LDL lowering treatments the disease patterns these people face remain unchanged.  Why?  because their gut remains the source of the inflammation that damages their arteries for their entire life.  We need to focus our efforts on the gut side of the equation and not the LDL side.  Ironically Dr Davis has done this with his assault on wheat.  Wheat drives sdLDL via what mechanism?  It screws up the liver and increases gut permeability to cause issues.  His current ideas and mine are very close.......but no one is tying this together.  I think my VAP post on the gut provides you the link.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    8/4/2011 10:55:40 PM |

    Genetic high total cholesterol is related to the over 50 amino acid variations of PCSK9 (pro-protein conertase subtilisn/kexin 9,  which comprises 692 amino acids). Individuals producing an excess of PCSK9 more extensively degrade their cholesterol receptors with surface defects; and so don't readily take up LDL out of circulation, which lets blood levels of LDL rise higher. Conversely, those making sparse PCSK9 can't degrade their LDL receptors, which pull lots of cholesterol into a tissue cell where it can pile up over time in that cell's lysosome; and blood levels of LDL seem to drop.


    PCSK9's worst version is D3744; where total cholesterol trends to 4 times normal and risk of death is estimated to be even +/- 10 years sooner than even other problematic PCSK9 genetic variations that affect maybe 1 in 500 westerners and account for +/- 5% of all pre-mature coronary heart disease. As regards the "older" age survival ability of those with familial high cholesterol  this may be due to the way over time plaque holds less lipid content and acquires more collagen with calcium infiltration. In other words younger plaque is less stable and more likely to burst free and be perilous.

    If fretting about plaque be aware that the average duration of carotid plaque is +/- 9.6 years; according to Carbon 14 dating from autopsies. Plaque may even form multiple times during one's life and the statistically dangerous symptoms take 5 - 15 years to manifest. Increased levels of circulating plasma insulin accelerate the rate that plaque forms; and also adds to a plaques instability (ie: potential to rupture) due to insulin's interaction with genes involved in the immune response;  like how those with insulin resistance make more pro-inflammatory cytokines. This bolsters Doc Davis' insistance to control glucose, since the down stream result is a more stable plaque.

    Noteably, there is the so called "protective cytokine" TGF beta which can allay plaque rupture. This is hard to predict for individuals because we have no way to assess who has what types of TGF beta receptors around , since normal and then plaque ridden blood vessels can harbor different TGF beta receptors. TGF  is considered a vital player inside vascular smooth muscle cells because it forms part of the interactive sequence that stops the smooth muscle cells from altering; and it bears mentioning that excess cholesterol can inhibit some TGF beta pathways.

  • jegesq

    8/5/2011 4:28:04 AM |

    For those who asked (Jack Kronk, Peggy, et.al.) about where and how one can get tested for ApoE it's simple:   Virtually any large commercial lab in the U.S. can do the test, e.g., Labcorp, Quest, etc.   Also, Atherotech (VAP) and Berkeley Heart Labs will do the test as well.   Since it's a genetic test, it's only run once during a person's lifetime.  The test can run anywhere from around $100 on up, depending on which lab runs it for you.

  • Dee

    8/5/2011 1:49:05 PM |

    In my last lipotropen test, I do not absorb chol not do I make it.  Am I a closed system?  My lp[a] is 41.  I am very puzzled.

    Dee

  • Dee

    8/5/2011 2:20:34 PM |

    That was from the Boston Heart lab.  I am a AP03/3.

  • George Zachary

    8/6/2011 12:21:32 AM |

    Super interesting!

    Do you know what SNP is PCSK9 ?  I'd like to look up it in my 23andme info.
    Thanks,
    George

  • Dee

    8/6/2011 12:29:15 AM |

    Plasma PCSK9 levels correlate with cholesterol in men but not in women
    Purchase
    $ 41.95


    References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.


    Janice Maynea, , , Angela Raymonda, Anna Chaplinb, Marion Cousinsb, Nadine Kaefera, Charles Gyamera-Acheamponga, Nabil G. Seidahc, Majambu Mbikaya, Michel Chrétiena and Teik Chye Ooia, b

    aHormones, Growth and Development Program, Ottawa Health Research Institute, The Ottawa Hospital, University of Ottawa, Ottawa, Ont., Canada

    bClinical Research Laboratory, Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Medicine, The Ottawa Hospital, University of Ottawa, Ont., Canada

    cLaboratory of Biochemical Neuroendocrinology, Clinical Research Institute of Montreal, Montreal, Que., Canada

    Received 29 June 2007.  Available online 18 July 2007.

    Abstract
    Proprotein convertase subtilisin kexin-like 9 (PCSK9) is a secreted glycoprotein that negatively regulates low density lipoprotein receptor (LDLR) levels. Several single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in PCSK9 have been linked to autosomal dominant hypercholesterolemia (ADH). Conversely, hypocholesterolemia associates with both ‘loss of function’ nonsense and missense SNPs in PCSK9. We examined the association of plasma PCSK9 with lipoprotein parameters in 182 normolipidemics. For men (n = 98) plasma PCSK9 averaged 6.08 ± 1.96 μg/ml and Spearman analysis revealed significant correlation between it and total cholesterol (TC), LDLC, and TC/high density lipoprotein (HDLC) (r = 0.276, 0.282, and 0.228, respectively). For women (n = 84) plasma PCSK9 averaged 6.46 ± 1.99 μg/ml having no correlation with TC, LDLC or TC/HDLC. The ratio of plasma PCSK9/LDLC increased in men carrying ‘loss of function’ PCSK9 variations. Our results suggest a gender difference in PCSK9 regulation and function with PCSK9 correlated to TC and LDLC in men but not women.

    Keywords: Plasma PCSK9; Loss of function; Hypocholesterolemia; Hypercholesterolemia; Single nucleotide polymorphisms

    Article Outline
    Materials and methods
    dI found this on the internet, I'm not sure if this is what you need?  

    Dee

  • Dr. K

    8/6/2011 8:27:02 PM |

    All patients with FH need to have their thyroid optimized.  This issue was hashed out at the Ancestral Health Symposium on August fifth at UCLA.  Jack Kronk's VAP is helping many patients learn how to raise their HDL to increase endotoxin clearance from the portal circulation to prevent oxidation of slow moving cholesterol because of A lack of their LDL receptor.  Thyroid optimization can overcome this to a degree but it requires a physician who knows precisely how to do this and not create an unsafe situation.  Their diets has to be a strict low carb moderate protein paleo diet high in coconut oil.

  • Dr. K

    8/6/2011 10:05:56 PM |

    This too can be assessed by looking at thyroid beta receptors......it is associated with down regulation or resistance of this specific thyroid receptor.  A company in Denmark has a clinical trial on going about this specific receptor.  Thyroid hormones bing to both thyroid alpha and beta receptors.  But disease that affect the LDL receptors seem to preferentially knock out the thyroid beta receptor.

  • Dee

    8/6/2011 11:28:44 PM |

    I apologize if I sent the wrong ifo.  Didn't read it through.
    Dee

  • Jack Kronk

    8/8/2011 2:28:15 PM |

    Dr K. -

    I am inquiring with the my Doc about getting tested for ApoE. I will let you know how that goes.

    Regarding hypothyroidism, yah the issue that I'm running into is that "it requires a physician who knows precisely how to do this and not create an unsafe situation".

    This is the problem with our medical system in America. I live in San Diego, one of the biggest, most advanced cities on earth, and I am having trouble finding anyone over here that can truly help me with this. My doctor situaiton is pathetic. Sorry to say that, but I'll call a spade a spade. All they want to do is put me on Lipitor and go low fat whole grain. So then I am stuck with doing my own diligent research, and appyling knowledge that I can learn from people who actually know what they are talking about, and right now, for me, that means the internet. Incredible when you think about it.

    When you say low carb, do you mean no starch as well, not even potatoes? By the way... the name of this post is "The Exception to Low Carb". So... that's why this is so confusing. Some very knowledgable people think it's best to raise my intake of starches and lower my fats. If my body is creating more LDL (even small dense) because of my saturated fat intake, then it makes sense to replace sat fats with something else. I already get enough protein, so then I am left with carbs. If it has to be carbs, isn't safe starch my only real option? It can't be 'sugar'. It can't be 'fructose', or grain starch, right? Should I eat loads of salads? Or I am on the wrong track completely? Should I look at upping my mono fats in place of saturated, like using mac nut oil for cooking? Or would mono fats be just as problematic?

    You see? Honestly, I know this stuff stone cold. I know what *most* people do well with, but if we don't figure out how being pre-disposed to having issues with LDL receptors really changes things, we are going to (deservedly) get hammered by the low-fat whole grain camp when a fair amount of people who thought they had it all figured out are dropping dead from eating fats because they are ApoE and had no idea.

    I'm genuinely glad that my example is helping people. No doubt I am. But I'd be alright with feeling like I'm getting somewhere with all this in my personal case as well. At the moment, I can't really say that I feel that way just yet.

  • Dr. K

    8/11/2011 12:38:34 AM |

    Patients with apoe4 have a higher rate of AD and AD is associated with a cholesterol deficiency in the brain.  So for me apoe4 is a signal to load with the MCT of coconut oil which has massive benefits to the brain metabolically.  I find it hard to believe this is bad for the heart at any level because CAD tends to mirror CVD across all measures.  I think only cardiologist have this problem with Larger particle LDL because of the faulty lipid hypothesis.  cAD is an inflammatory condition.  It ha little to do with cholesterol itself.  If the cholesterol is oxidized then there are issues but this can be followed by acute phase reactants from the liver like HS CRP.  When it's up HDL tends to be low......and it's low because the liver is being bombard by gut endotoxins and this is a direct measure of the oxidation potential of an overwhelmed portal circulation.  To further the point......thyroid hormone, testosterone, estrogen, and high vitamin D levels all raise liver HDL and this is how they protect against heart disease.  I maintain large LDL confers no risk without inflammation.......and a low HDL is a great way to know if your liver is being overwhelmed in the portal circulation.  This is why vitamin K2 confers a great cardiac benefit.......it comes from a healthy gut biome.  vAP tells you a ton about your portal circulations inflammatory burden.

  • majkinetor

    8/14/2011 2:59:37 PM |

    M-Al, just copy your text prior to the post, or write it in the editor. I don't know which browser you use, but in Chrome if you use "back" on "server error", it will return what you typed in a reply.

  • Peter Silverman

    8/16/2011 5:08:49 PM |

    Following your diet I took an NMR last summer and this summer.  The small LDL particles went down (835 to 709) but the total particles went up (1800 to 2100).  Should I stick with your diet (low carb, no wheat, D, omega3's), one Walmart glucometer) or go back to rice and beans?

  • Jack Kronk

    8/24/2011 7:29:11 PM |

    I got quote at $390 for just an ApoE genetic test. Is that normal?

  • Adriana

    10/5/2011 12:33:30 PM |

    Have you seen any reduction in your LDL following this diet?

  • Eric

    7/9/2012 6:43:01 PM |

    I've been eating paleo/primal for about a year, dropped 10 pounds, and brought my triglycerides down from a high of 325 three years ago to 130. Unfortunately, my LDL-p is over 2600 (first time it was checked), and I found out I'm APO e4/e4.

    The doctor says e4/e4 should go vegan, which seems about as anti-primal as you can get.

    Any suggestions for where to start looking for eating guidelines?

  • Gary Mullennix

    5/4/2013 4:38:16 AM |

    My goodness, how very confusing!!  I'm hypothyroid.  My HDL is 95. My total C is 285. Ny LDL is 186. But my LDL fractions are mostly big and plumb and my small total 23. So, I think I'm ok...buy my doc thinks I should go vegan. I want coconut oil, little red meat.  I evercise 5x week. My heatt stress tests were all 'well within'   So, it sounds as though I need to get the E4 tested   More?

  • Mario

    3/9/2014 9:46:46 AM |

    I would be deeply grateful for your advice. I am doing my best to understand how to cope with my aPOE 3/4 status. I have Alzheimer's on both sides of my family, which has killed or is in the process of killing several relatives, including my father and maternal grandmother. Unsurprisingly, I have received much conflicting data.

    I am 46. I eat a strict Paleo diet (grass-fed, wild-caught, etc.) except for some resistant starch in the form of parboiled rice and unmodified potato starch. I consume approximately 50-60% fats (majority saturated fats including daily MCT oil), 30-40% protein and 10-20% carbs. I exercise vigorously and non-vigorously -- but not every day. (Incidentally, over three years I naturally increased my testosterone by 38% using this approach, going from the low 3's to 5.3.)

    My LDL is 128. My HDL is a distressingly low 33. Triglycerides are 59.

    MY NEXT MOVE: Seek out an LDL particle-size test. If that reveals my LDL particles to be of an unhealthy size then I will need to consider a different approach in regard to sat fats. Also, looking  to improve my sleep, which has been my Achilles' heel (consistently get only around six hours). Finally, using super-consistent exercise and increasing oyster intake to boost the HDL.

    I would appreciate any guidance.(!)

    Best / Mario

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