(Lack of ) Quality of nutritional supplements

In my last post, I blogged about how we must not confuse marketing with truth. They are often two different things.

A patient I saw today was absolutely convinced that his fish oil was the best available in the world: purer, uncontaminated by mercury or pesticides--"not like that other crap on the shelves." I asked him how he knew this. "They say so," he proudly declared.

Do you recognize this? He fell for the marketing. While there may be some truth in the manufacturer's claims, you can't believe it from the mouth of the manufacturer. True judgements about quality and purity have to come from an independent source like Consumer Reports, Consumer Lab, or the FDA.

But the FDA doesn't regulate the quality and purity of nutritional supplements. On the positive side, this has allowed supplement manufacturers to keep costs down, not having to navigate arcane and complex regulatory restrictions.

On the negative side, a fair number of supplement manufacturers get away with 1) producing supplements that fail to contain the stated amounts of ingredients, occasionally containing none of the essential ingredient(s), 2) contain contaminants like lead, and 3) make extravagant and often unfounded claims like "superior", "more effective", and "purer". (DHEA, for instance, is a particular landmine of poor quality. I recently suggested that a patient take DHEA; despite consistently taking 50 mg of a specific brand for several months, the blood level of DHEA-S didn't budge one bit--there was likely little or none in the capsule.)

The Fanatic Cook at http://fanaticcook.blogspot.com has posted some very insightful discussions on this issue and the proposed FDA regulations of supplements. They're worth perusing.

I really wish regulation weren't necessary and that the industry could have policed itself. But it clearly has failed and perhaps federal oversight is not such a bad thing, as long as the FDA regulations restrict themselves to oversight over quality and purity and not to efficacy. It's the efficacy regulation that could hogtie innovation in supplement development.

Marketing and truth are not the same

I often remind people: Don't confuse marketing with the truth.

Today, I spent a total of probably an hour and a half dissuading patients that some crazed piece of marketing trying to sell them something was not the same as truth.

I spent approximately 40 minutes alone with a woman who was absolutely convinced that:

--Nattokinase would cure her of all heart disease. It does not. Despite the promising health benefits of natto and vitamin K2 supplementation, nattokinase is a scam with no basis in science nor logic.

--Niacin destroys your liver and homeopathic remedies are superior. Quite simply, homeopathy = quackery. No rational thinking scientist endorses the utter nonsense practiced in this strange and outrageous set of practices that requires you to suspend all reason.

--Sufficient vitamin D is obtainable through a "potent" multivitamin. I know of no multivitamin preparation that even begins to provide the dose of vitamin D that is actually required by adults, nor is it absorbed since these D preparations are powder based.

--Fish oil will poison you with mercury. Accordingly, one brand of fish oil claims to be the only safe form. Those of you following these posts, or the reports of the USDA and FDA, as well as the reports of Consumer Reports and Consumer Lab (www.consumerlab.com) know that, unlike fish itself, there is no mercury in fish oil capsules.

--All coronary atherosclerotic heart disease is caused by heavy metal poisoning. Thus chelation with EDTA represents a cure for heart disease.


People are inundated with marketing that promise extravagant cures, remove need for any medication, make you smarter, sexier, thinner, and on and on.

If you see a TV ad for Ford that says they make the best cars in the U.S., do you immediately run out and put a For Sale sign on your GM car and buy a Ford? No, of course not. You recognize the ad for what it is: marketing. It may be true, but a TV commercial is not enough to convince you.

Then why would an ad promising extraordinary cures for cancer or heart disease convince you that this is true? It should not. Marketing ads should only serve to alert you to the possibility of value or benefit, but should never-- never--stand alone as proof. Take marketing for what it is: marketing of a product or service, not a scientific report, not a factual report, not news.

Marketing is advertising. Period.

More on erectile dysfunction

Several facts on erectile dysfunction and coronary plaque:


If you have erectile dysfunction, there's at least a 50% chance you also have coronary plaque.

If you have coronary plaque by a CT heart scan, there's a 50% chance you have erectile dysfunction.

If you have symptomatic coronary disease (chest pains, breathlessness, prior heart attack), there's a 90% chance you also have erectile dysfunction.


Coronary disease is characterized by a dysfunctional state of the "endothelium", or inner lining of the coronary arteries. Erectile dysfunction is characterized by dysfunction of the endothelium of the penile circulation. Same phenomenon, different territories. (There are other differences, of course, but the two conditions share this fundamental phenomenon.)


If you have any doubts about the physiologic effects of the supplement, l-arginine, just give it a try if you have erectile dysfunction. The erection enhancing effects alone should convince you that a genuine artery-dilating effect is exerted by this very powerful nutritional supplement.

If l-arginine fails by itself to restore full erectile capacity, there are additional strategies, both nutritional and medical, that you can consider.

Our newest Track Your Plaque Special Report on erectile dysfunction is coming out any day now.

High LDL cholesterol--only

As a sequel to my last post, just how often can we blame an isolated high LDL cholesterol as the cause of coronary plaque and a heart scan score?

In other words, how often does someone prove to have only LDL cholesterol as the cause of a heart scan score . . . and nothing else? No low HDL, small LDL, lipoprotein(a), a post-prandial (after-eating) intermediate-density lipoprotein, inflammatory responses, phospholipase A2, high triglycerides, vitamin D deficiency, etc.

Rarely. In fact, I can truly count the number of people who have only LDL cholesterol as their sole cause of coronary atherosclerotic plaque on one hand. It is really an infrequent situation.

Far more commonly, people have 5, 6, 7 or more reasons for coronary plaque.

Thus, the idea that a statin drug to reduce LDL will cure heart disease is completely folly. It does happen--but rarely. I think I've seen it happen twice. Much more commonly, a program that addresses all the causes of coronary plaque yields far superior benefits.

In my view, an effort to identify all the causes is relatively easy, makes far better sense, and provides you much greater assurance that you will succeed in conquering heart disease and removing its evil influence from your life.

Heart disease = statin deficiency

Judging from the conversations I hear from colleagues, what I hear from the media, and drug company advertising, you'd think that heart disease has one cause--a deficiency of statin drugs.

As their thinking goes, if you have coronary disease, you need a statin drug (Lipitor, Zocor, Crestor, pravachol, etc.). If you have progressive coronary disease, you need more statin drug. If you have a heart attack while on a statin drug, you need even more statin drug.

Some "experts" have even proposed that we do away with LDL cholesterol and we just give everybody a statin drug at high doses.

Does this make any sense to you?

Doesn't it make better sense that if someone has progressive heart disease or heart attack while on a statin drug, then target the other causes largely unaffected by a statin drug? Perhaps if LDL cholesterol remains high on the statin drug, then a higher dose is justified. But more often than not, it's not a high LDL on statin drugs that responsible, it's other causes. And there's many of them: low HDL, VLDL, IDL, Lp(a), deficiency of omega-3 fatty acids, inflammatory processes, vitamin D deficiency, among others. (An important exception to this is when the conventional calculated LDL substantially underestimates true LDL as measured by LDL particle number by NMR, apoprotein B, or 'direct' LDL.)

Imagine someone has pneumonia. After 2 weeks of antibiotics, they are only partly better. The solution: a higher dose of the same antibiotic--but never question if it was the right antibiotic in the first place. That's what is going on in heart disease.

The doctors have been brainwashed into believing this $22 billion dollar per year bit of propaganda. The drug companies actively try to recruit the public into believing the same. Don't fall for it.

The statin drugs do indeed have a role. But they are not the complete answer. More of the same when disease progresses makes no sense at all.

Fish oil and mercury

I often get questions about the mercury content in fish oil. I've even had patients come to the office saying their primary care doctor told them to stop fish oil to avoid mercury poisoning.

Manufacturers of fish oil also make claims that this product or that ("super-concentrated", "pharmaceutical grade", "purified", etc.) is purer or less contaminated than competitors' products. The manufacturers of the "drug" Omacor, or prescription fish oil, have added to the confusion by suggesting that their product is the most pure of all, since it is the most concentrated of any fish oil preparation (900 mg EPA+DHA per capsule). They claim that "OMACOR is naturally derived through a unique, patented process that creates a highly concentrated, highly purified prescription medicine. By prescribing OMACOR® (omega-3-acid ethyl esters), a prescription omega-3, your doctor is giving you a concentrated and reliable omega-3. Each OMACOR capsule contains 90% omega-3 acids (84% EPA/DHA*). Nonprescription omega-3 dietary supplements typically contain only 13%-63% EPA/DHA."

How much truth is there in these concerns?

Let's go to the data published by the USDA, FDA, and several independent studies. Let's add to that the independent (and therefore presumably unbiased) analyses provided by Consumer Reports and Consumer Labs (www.consumerlab.com). How much mercury has been found in fish oil supplements?

None.

This is different from the mercury content of whole fish that you eat. Predatory fish that are at the top of the food chain and consume other fish and thereby concentrate organic methyl mercury, the toxic form of mercury. Thus, shark, swordfish, and King mackerel are higher in mercury than sardines, herring, and salmon.

The mercury content of fish oil capsules have little to do with the method of processing and much more with the animal source of oil. Fish oil is generally obtained from sardines, salmon, and cod, all low in mercury. Fish oil capsules are not prepared from swordfish or shark.

Thus, concerns about mercury from fish oil--regardless of brand--are generally unfounded, according to the best information we have. Eating whole fish--now that's another story for another time. But you and I can take our fish oil to reduce triglycerides, VLDL, IDL, small LDL, and heart attack risk without worrying about mercury.

How much omega-3s are enough?

The basic dose we advocate for the Track Your Plaque program is 1200 mg per day of EPA + DHA, the essential omega-3 fatty acids.

1200 mg EPA+DHA is generally obtainable by taking 4 capsules of 1000 mg of fish oil, since the majority of preparations contain 180 mg EPA and 120 mg DHA per capsule.

But how will you know if a higher dose wouldn't be even better?

The principal parameter to look at is triglycerides. If triglycerides remain above 60 mg/dl, we usually consider increasing fish oil.

Another measure that's very important is intermediate-density lipoprotein, or IDL, also called "remnant lipoproteins" on a VAP panel. Persistence of any IDL or remnant lipoproteins is reason to consider more fish oil. Most commonly, if there is some persistence of either, we increase fish oil to 6000 mg per day of a standard preparation, or 1800 mg/day of EPA+DHA.

The only time we see persistence of IDL or remnant lipoproteins with this higher dose is when triglycerides are really high. If starting triglycerides are, for instance, 500 mg/dl, then even this higher dose may be insufficient. This is when more highly concentrated preparations of fish oil may be necessary, occasionally even the prescription form, Omacor. (We currently use Omacor only when high doses of EPA+DHA are required, most because of its outrageous cost. Two capsules per day costs around $120 per month; three capsules per day to provide 1800 mg/day of EPA+DHA costs $180 per month. I think this is outrageous and so we use it only when absolutely necessary.)

You might even argue that a higher dose of 1800 mg EPA+DHA, or 6000 mg of a standard capsule, might be preferable for more assured reduction of heart attack risk--even when triglycerides and IDL are perfectly under control. I wouldn't argue with you. But you won't observe any measurable feedback that tells you that a heightened effect is being obtained. I take that dose myself, in fact, despite the fact that elimination of wheat products and weight loss was sufficient to drop my triglycerides to the target level. I figure it's a small additional effort for added peace of mind.

Repentance for past sins

If you are new to the Track Your Plaque program and would like to jump start your effort, or if you are struggling with losing weight and excess weight is a part of the situation that created your CT heart scan score, then don't forget about fasting.

Fasting is the cessation of eating. However, recall from the Track Your Plaque Special Report, Fasting: Fast Track to Control Plaque at http://www.cureality.com/library/fl_04-012fasting.asp, there are many variations on fasting that permit some intake of healthy foods. (Thus, they are not, in the strict sense, "fasting". Accurate or no, there are variations that may be more palatable or do-able in the real world by real people.)

My personal favorite method to fast is to use a low-sugar, low-fat soy milk such as Light Silk, available at most major grocery stores. This high-protein, low-fat, low-sugar soy milk takes the edge off hunger and provides a minimal quantity of calories. A minimum of 72 hours is required for substantial results. (My one reservation about this brand of soy milk is that the Fanatic Cook claims that the manufacturer, Dean Foods, is a factory farm operation that abuses livestock--a discussion for another day.)

Fasting yields more than weight loss. It refreshes your appreciation for food. It reawakens you to the amount and quality of food you've been putting in your body. Fasting also allows you to recognize just how bad you might feel from the diet you were eating.

You also emerge from a fast with a reduced appetite and a renewed sense of appreciation for food. It makes the discipline of healthy eating a lot easier when you break your fast.

I tell people that fasting is not punishment. It is a form of enlightenment, of re-experiencing food and life. Fasting allows you to "catch up" on all the indiscretions you've been guilty of over the years.

It also provides enormous advantage in gaining control over coronary plaque.

A fanatic for Fanatic Cook

If you haven't already done so, I'd urge you to peruse the wonderfully insightful, sophisticated, and biting commentary provided by the Fanatic Cook Blog at http://fanaticcook.blogspot.com.

She (I assume it's a she) has been discussing the proposed Safe Food Act recently, an effort to address all the dangers in foods that have come to attention lately, like melamine in pet food and E. coli in bagged spinach. Her most recent post is:

Nebraska Farm Bureau Thinks Food Safety Act Bad Idea, the latest in a series of posts exploring this issue.

I'd like to know who the Fanatic Cook is, or "Bix" as she calls herself. (I assume it's a "she" but I don't really know that for a fact.) I've corresponded with her and she prefers to remain anonymous for unspecified reasons. I'd like to know who this person is both for a more secure sense of credibility, as well as I'd simply like to know who can write so intelligently and why. I suspect that she's a professional nutrition scientist or something along those lines, since the level of insight into many scientific issues is quite impressive. Her Blogs will make great material for a book, if compiled and organized. Watch out for this one.

Erectile dysfunction and coronary plaque

Erectile dysfunction (ED), previously known as "impotence," and coronary atherosclerotic plaque go hand in hand.

A recent study in men with advanced coronary disease showed that 93% experienced ED. The participants in the Track Your Plaque program, for the most part, do not have advanced coronary atherosclerosis, but have an earlier form detected by a CT heart scan.

What proportion of men with asymptomatic coronary plaque as measured by a CT heart scan have ED? Around 50%. In other words, it's not a rare occurrence.

The conversation about ED (and even its renaming from impotence) really gained momentum with the development of ED-drugs like Viagra and Cialis. The drugs are reasonably effective and safe. However, you will hear little about all the strategies that can either precede your need for these drugs and/or enhance your response to these drugs if the response is partial. That part of the conversation, of course, doesn't yield loads of drug company revenues.

One of the most helpful and specific nutritional supplements available that can partially restore the nitric oxide-deficiency of ED is l-arginine. L-arginine is the body's source of nitric oxide (NO), the master dilator (relaxing agent) for all arteries of the body. NO dilates penile arteries, it dilates coronary arteries. Lack of NO disables the penile capacity for erection and encourages growth of coronary atherosclerotic plaque. Track Your Plaque Members are already familiar with l-arginine as a facilitator of coronary plaque regression.

We will detail the supplements that you can use safely in your Track Your Plaque program to both enhance erectile function if you suffer ED, as well as impact positively on coronary health, in an upcoming and detailed Special Report on the www.cureality.com website.
Fat is not the demon

Fat is not the demon

So my patient, Dane, generously volunteered to be on the Dr. Oz show, as I discussed previously.

What we didn't know, nor did the producer who contacted us mention, that Dane would be counseled by low-fat guru Dr. Dean Ornish on a strict low-fat diet. The teaser introduction essentially tells the entire story.

Ironically, that is the exact opposite of the dietary program that I advocate. I rejected the 10% fat diet long ago after I became a type II diabetic, gained 30 lbs, and suffered miserable deterioration of my cholesterol values on this diet. I also witnessed similar results in many hundreds of people, all following a strict low-fat diet. In fact, elimination of wheat--whole, white, or otherwise--along with limitation or elimination of all other grains has been among the most powerful health strategies I have ever witnessed.

I now regret having subjected my patient to this theatrical misinformation. Dane is a smart cookie--That's probably why he was not allowed more than a "yes" or "no" during Dr. Oz's monologue, else Dane might have pitched in about some ideas that would have tripped Oz and Ornish up.

In their defense, if we took 100 Americans all following a typical 21st century diet of fast food, white bread buns, Coca Cola and other soft drinks, chips, barbecue sauce, and French fries, converting to a plant-based, high-carbohydrate, grain-rich diet is indeed an improvement. People will, at first, lose weight and enjoy an initial response. (The occasional person with the Apo E4 genetic pattern, heterozygote or homozygote, may even enjoy long-term benefits, a topic for another day.)

But the majority of people, in my experience, after an initial positive response to an Ornish-like low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet will either plateau (stay overweight, have low HDL, high triglycerides, plenty of small LDL, and high blood sugars) or deteriorate, much as I did.

Thankfully, Dane has been a good sport about this, understanding that this is essentially show business. I believe he understands that the information was all well-intended and, after all, we are all working towards the same goal: reduction of heart disease risk.

By the way, regardless of which diet you follow, it is, in my view, absurd to believe that diet alone will do it. What about vitamin D normalization, thyroid normalization (thyroid disease is incredibly common), omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil, identification of hidden sources of risk (something that is unlikely in Ornish, since small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-fat diet), postprandial glucoses, etc., all the pieces we focus on to gain control over coronary plaque? Eating green peppers and barley soup alone is not going to do it.

Comments (36) -

  • Matt Stone

    4/16/2010 1:09:27 PM |

    You might wanna revise the last statement in parenthesis about a low-carb diet causing small LDL to skyrocket Smile  I assume you meant low-fat.

  • Eloise

    4/16/2010 1:23:10 PM |

    I´ve been a low fat healthy anything victim myself for over 12 years and know exactly that it is a difference to SAD - but as you said only at the beginning. But maybe it´s easier to take those first changing steps into the right direction even if it´s the wrong way.
    Low fat, tons of fruits and whole grains are not the solution.
    Now I´m VLC for over one year, keto the last half got rid of eczema, asthma, mood issues and much more. Laboratory always repeat the tests because they can´t believe it: HDL 199, triglyceride 35. That´s high fat.

  • Dr. John Mitchell

    4/16/2010 1:26:29 PM |

    Dr. D
    You are on the mark with the last paragraph...it's more than one "magic pill" to solve the health problem. The solution appears to be a combination of many aspects of human existence...diet exercise and mental state.
    Eat right, exercise right, and think right...making the right choices for a healthier lifestyle.

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2010 2:08:30 PM |

    (something that is unlikely in Ornish, since small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-carb diet)

    Should this not read either

    "Low-Fat" or "High-Carb" diet?

  • John

    4/16/2010 4:07:42 PM |

    I applaud Dane--I don't know how long I'd be able to contain my frustration if I had to not only watch the Dr. Oz show, but actually receive direct advice from Ornish and Oz about low fat...

  • Chuck

    4/16/2010 4:33:16 PM |

    You mean "skyrocket on a *low fat* diet", right?

  • Anna

    4/16/2010 4:37:00 PM |

    "since small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-carb diet"

    I think this is a typo that was meant to say "high-carb diet", right?  Or perhaps it was large LDL particles skyrocket on a LC diet.

  • Nigel Kinbrum

    4/16/2010 5:31:01 PM |

    "since small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-carb diet"
    I think you meant high-carb diet

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2010 5:56:34 PM |

    I think you have a mistype here:

    (something that is unlikely in Ornish, since small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-carb diet)

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2010 7:38:14 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I watched Dr. Oz's show on reversing heart disease and it was interesting to read your comments.  

    Regarding the reversal of heart disease, while I admittedly haven't read your publication, do you have Heart Scans/Calcium Scores, angiograms or PET Scans that show the same results Dr. Oz (and other MDs like Dr. Caldwell Esselstein or K. Lance Gould) that show the same results with your program?  

    Thank you again and look forward to your feedback.

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2010 7:46:00 PM |

    maybe I am reading into this wrong but " (something that is unlikely in Ornish, since small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-carb diet)"

  • Anonymous

    4/16/2010 8:27:32 PM |

    ''something that is unlikely in Ornish, since small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-carb diet''   You surely meant low-fat diet.

  • jd

    4/16/2010 8:45:38 PM |

    Thanks as always.  Please fix third line from bottom, after skyrocket,"low-carb," to help the newbies.

  • pjnoir

    4/16/2010 8:53:34 PM |

    See- it was an AMBUSH. They write the rules and that is that. WE, the low carb HIGH fat diet, community must be the grass roots driving force. We are like Galileo committing hiFat heresy among an antiFat, Whole grain Inquisition. Fight on and screw tv talk shows.

  • Drs. Cynthia and David

    4/16/2010 10:51:34 PM |

    I will be curious to see how this goes down on the Oz show, but am afraid we'll be left wanting to bang our heads on the wall.  Does this mean that Dane did not get a chance to respond at all to their advice or that he must agree to follow their advice (maybe with a  follow up to show improvement, or NOT).

    I agree with you that their diet advice is probably better than what most of their featured patients eat.  And you probably can show improvements to a degree that way in many people.  Just cutting the enormous glycemic load in conjunction with omega-6 rich oils should help a lot.  But that doesn't make it optimal for health.

    What's it going to take to shut up the low fat dogmatists?  A class action lawsuit?

    Why don't you have a show of your own?  I think it would be a good thing.

    BTW, I think you meant to say "small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-FAT diet" in your penultimate sentence.

    Cynthia

  • Phil

    4/16/2010 11:32:21 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
    Should the next-to-last sentence read "...small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-fat diet..."?  I thought low-carb diets reduced small LDL.

  • Steve

    4/17/2010 12:42:09 AM |

    Typo should be fat
    "small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-carb diet"

    I've enjoyed reading your blog.

    Other ideas...
    Niacin and phosophorous suppression causal for insulin resistance?

    Fibrates?

  • Dr. William Davis

    4/17/2010 4:41:10 AM |

    Ooops!

    Thanks, all for catching the typo.

    The sentence should have read:

    . . . small LDL particles skyrocket on a low-FAT diet.

    I guess everyone is paying attention!

  • Gys de Jongh

    4/17/2010 8:55:20 AM |

    not every body agrees ....

    Am J Clin Nutr. 2010 Mar;91(3):578-85.

    Lack of suppression of circulating free fatty acids and hypercholesterolemia during weight loss on a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet.

    Abstract
    BACKGROUND: Little is known about the comparative effect of weight-loss diets on metabolic profiles during dieting. OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to compare the effect of a low-carbohydrate diet (< or =20 g/d) with a high-carbohydrate diet (55% of total energy intake) on fasting and hourly metabolic variables during active weight loss. DESIGN: Healthy, obese adults (n = 32; 22 women, 10 men) were randomly assigned to receive either a carbohydrate-restricted diet [High Fat; mean +/- SD body mass index (BMI; in kg/m(2)): 35.8 +/- 2.9] or a calorie-restricted, low-fat diet (High Carb; BMI: 36.7 +/- 4.6) for 6 wk. A 24-h in-patient feeding study was performed at baseline and after 6 wk. Glucose, insulin, free fatty acids (FFAs), and triglycerides were measured hourly during meals, at regimented times. Remnant lipoprotein cholesterol was measured every 4 h. RESULTS: Patients lost a similar amount of weight in both groups (P = 0.57). There was an absence of any diet treatment effect between groups on fasting triglycerides or on remnant lipoprotein cholesterol, which was the main outcome. Fasting insulin decreased (P = 0.03), and both fasting (P = 0.040) and 24-h FFAs (P < 0.0001) increased within the High Fat group. Twenty-four-hour insulin decreased (P < 0.05 for both groups). Fasting LDL cholesterol decreased in the High Carb group only (P = 0.003). In both groups, the differences in fasting and 24-h FFAs at 6 wk were significantly correlated with the change in LDL cholesterol (fasting FFA: r = 0.41, P = 0.02; 24-h FFA: r = 0.52, P = 0.002). CONCLUSIONS: Weight loss was similar between diets, but only the high-fat diet increased LDL-cholesterol concentrations. This effect was related to the lack of suppression of both fasting and 24-h FFAs.

    PMID: 20107198

  • Fred Hahn

    4/17/2010 2:15:57 PM |

    If I'm correct, the study cited in the comments section fails to reflect LDL particle size. IOW, your total LDL can go up and still result in a superior outcome.

    Also, weight loss isn't the issue - fat loss is. We want to know which group lost the most fat, not weight.

    Additionally, A calorie restricted, low fat diet that places carb intake at only 55% (FAR lower the the USRDA recc's) is still a relatively low carb diet.

  • Lou

    4/17/2010 3:28:45 PM |

    Gys de Jongh,

    I've seen that study before. I can't access to the whole study but did they use NMR lipid test or traditional lipid test? Huge difference! I'd bet the study was flawed.

  • TedHutchinson

    4/17/2010 8:38:20 PM |

    @ Gys de Jongh
    In this study Subjects were told that polyunsaturated fats
    and monounsaturated fats were healthier sources of dietary fatty acids than were saturated fats,

    readers here know Dr Davis makes his recommendations on the basis every effort is made to improve omega 3 status while avoiding omega-6-rich sources like corn oil, vegetable oils, sunflower or safflower oils.

    Similarly New Atkins devotes a lot of time explaining the importance of raising omega 3 while reducing omega 6 sources.

    It is a pity these researchers didn't make similar recommendations.

    I would also like to point out that  in this study, concentrations of LDL cholesterol were estimated by using the Friedewald equation
    You may be interested in Dr Davis's  previous comments on Making Dr. Friedewald an honest man

    The point is that in the context of  high omega3 ~ low omega6 intakes, we would normally expect to see a low carbohydrate diet produce a beneficial effect on triglycerides and free fatty acids without reducing TOTAL cholesterol but this may seriously throw Friedewald off target.

    Without any positive recommendations to address the omega3<>omega6 ratio, the low carb diet used in this research is not a low carb diet that either Atkins proponents or Dr Davis would support.

  • donny

    4/17/2010 11:03:08 PM |

    Gys--

    So how much did the high carb group eat? The abstract only says that calories were restricted, it doesn't say to what extent.

    What was the composition of the weight loss?

    "There was an absence of any diet treatment effect between groups on fasting triglycerides or on remnant lipoprotein cholesterol, which was the main outcome."

    Triglycerides at the same level probably means different things, depending on the overall picture.

    A particular triglyceride level in a high carb diet might be a measure of the continuous production of triglycerides in the liver. In a low carb diet,  triglycerides might be at a similar level, and if this comes alongside a higher level of free fatty acids, those free fatty acids will be in competition for takeup with the triglycerides; so the same level of serum triglycerides could be reached, even though triglyceride production itself might be decidedly lower.

  • marshall

    4/17/2010 11:04:44 PM |

    Gys,

    It would be interesting to see if it was the large, fluffy LDL or the small, dense LDL that increased. Were the high fat diets consisting of a lot of Omega 6 or PUFAs? Or did the high fat come from coconut, grass fed meats, and omega 3 fatty acids?

  • Bobby

    4/18/2010 12:02:18 AM |

    I know lots of folks on a low fat high carb diet who flourish and do not have your experience. I know folks who are on a diet you recommend who also flourish. This whole subject must be more complex than currently understood. Either folks are different or we are missing some variables. The oriental cultures flourish on a high carb diet and they do well (until the SAD influences them).

  • nightrite

    4/18/2010 4:01:27 PM |

    It's not uncommon for LDL to increase with a high-fat diet. This increase however is in the large fluffy LDL subparticles and not in the small, dense type LDL.
    Small LDL is the real "bad guy" in the cholesterol story.

  • Jan-Peter

    4/18/2010 4:26:54 PM |

    I recently had the Berkley Heart panel done and found out I was a 3/4 APO E carrier.  Their recommendation of a 20% low fat diet I found misguided.  Instead I went on a restricted calorie (1,700/day I'm 5' 11") diet consisting of no grains, some limited fruit (mostly berries)and lots of veggies (daily carbs 110g), lean protein (grass fed if red meat) about 125g. And I eat a ratio of fats (80g) mostly from avacado, olive oil, nuts, and yes some saturated (20g).
    The Macro ratio is 46% fat/30 % protein/24% carbs.
    By being high fat I am able to maintain this low calorie diet without feeling depreived.
    After 2 months on this diet I lost 24 pounds my LDL went from 130 to 91, my HDL went from 45 to 54, and my triglycerides from 230 to 94.

    DESPITE THESE #'S MY PHSYCIAN AND THE DIETIAN FROM BERKLEY WARNED ME THAT MY GENOTYPE DOES NOT METABOLIZE FATS WELL!
    I know there are conflicting studies (Krauss). I would love Dr. D to take on this APO E subject.  I can't believe from an evolutionary standpoint that 20 % of the population can't eat high fat diets, something is wrong with this hypothesis.

  • Norm

    4/18/2010 9:41:03 PM |

    Gys de Jongh, maybe you should read this interpretation of the study on Dr. Eades' blog.

  • Gys de Jongh

    4/19/2010 11:11:00 PM |

    @ TedHutchinson :
    The Friedewald equation works fine in this case because the baseline Trig's were 117 mg/dl

    If Trig's < 100 mg/dl, LDL is over estimated by 12.17 mg/dL or if you have a (very) good lipid panel your LDL might be over estimated by 10% . Nothing to worry about I would say Smile

    The article is free :
    Arch Iran Med. 2008 May;11(3):318-21.
    The impact of low serum triglyceride on LDL-cholesterol estimation.

    PMID: 18426324

  • Gys de Jongh

    4/19/2010 11:17:49 PM |

    @Lou
    Total cholesterol and triglycerides were measured enzymatically with a colorimetric endpoint (Roche Diagnostic Systems, Indianapolis, IN), as were HDL-cholesterol concentrations (Diagnostic Chemicals Ltd, Oxford, CT). LDL cholesterol was calculated from plasma total and HDL cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations

  • Gys de Jongh

    4/19/2010 11:23:07 PM |

    @donny
    Suggested caloric intakes for women initially were set at 1200–1500 kcal/d, with the higher intakes recommended for those with a BMI > 36. Men were instructed to eat 1500–1800 kcal/d, again with the higher intakes recommended for those with a BMI > 36. Subjects were encouraged to consume about 30% of calories from fat, 15% from protein, and 55% from carbohydrate.

  • Gys de Jongh

    4/19/2010 11:30:30 PM |

    @Bobby
    The best "diet" for you depends on what your genes do with the food after you eat it  Smile
    Int J Circumpolar Health. 2007 Dec;66(5):390-400.
    Common variants APOC3, APOA5, APOE and PON1 are associated with variation in plasma lipoprotein traits in Greenlanders.
    Abstract
    OBJECTIVES: We undertook studies of the association between common genomic variations in APOC3, APOA5, APOE and PON1 genes and variation in biochemical phenotypes in a sample of Greenlanders. STUDY DESIGN: Genetic association study of quantitative lipoprotein traits. METHODS: In a sample of 1,310 adult Greenlanders, fasting plasma lipid, lipoprotein and apolipoprotein (apo) concentrations were assessed for association with known functional genomic variants of APOC3, APOA5, APOE and PON1. For significantly associated polymorphisms, between-genotype differences were examined in closer detail. RESULTS: We found that (1) the APOE restriction isotype was associated with variation in plasma total and LDL cholesterol and apo B (all p < .0001); (2) the APOC3 promoter genotype was associated with variation in plasma triglycerides, HDL cholesterol and apo A-I (all p < .002); (3) the APOA5 codon 19 genotype was associated with variation in plasma triglycerides (p = .027); and (4) the PON1 codon 192 genotype was associated with variation in total and LDL cholesterol and apo B (all p < .05). CONCLUSIONS: Taken together, our results suggest that common genetic variations in APOC3, APOA5, APOE and PON1 are associated with significant variation in intermediate traits in plasma lipoprotein metabolism in Greenlanders; the associations are similar to those observed for these variants in other populations.

    PMID: 18274205

  • Gys de Jongh

    4/19/2010 11:35:35 PM |

    @marshall
    High-fat/low-carbohydrate-diet treatment
    Participants in the high-fat condition were instructed to consume a diet that was low in carbohydrate and thus higher in percentage fat and/or protein (13). The central feature of this approach is carbohydrate restriction with unlimited consumption of fat and protein. Subjects were told that polyunsaturated fats and monounsaturated fats were healthier sources of dietary fatty acids than were saturated fats, but it was clear that the primary goal was to limit carbohydrate by whatever means were required. Participants were provided a treatment manual, which described the rationale for a low-carbohydrate diet as well as numerous suggestions for meal plans. The treatment manual for the highcarbohydrate diet plan was modified to make it parallel to the high-fat (low-carbohydrate) recommendations. This substudy took place during the first phase (“induction”) of the intervention. During this phase, participants were instructed to consume ’20 g carbohydrate/d. They were told to eat until full while remaining within the carbohydrate limit.

  • Lou

    4/20/2010 10:38:22 PM |

    Gys,

    What about small LDL particle vs large LDL particle? Did they use vegetable oil? What kind of carbohydrates?

    How do you explain this clincal study - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=17583796&dopt=AbstractPlus?

    I rapidly lost a lot of viseral fat past month after cutting most of wheat flour based food AND adding more healthy fat like avacado, coconut milk, olive oil, egg yolk and plenty of various meat. I feel better. I tried low fat high carbs diet and it was not sustainable because I go hungry all the time.

    Unless I have full access to that study, I'm going to write it off as flawed misleading study. The author was clearly trying to promote high carbs and low fat diet. I'll have to see where they got grants from to do the study.

  • Catatonic Eyes

    4/22/2010 3:15:12 PM |

    Dr. Davis what brand of fish oil do you recommend? I have been taking Flameout by Biotest but am feeling it may not be the best choice. I am hopeful to find something reasonably priced that works well. When my Vit d tested at nine in December when I was admitted to the hospital, I started taking the NOW brand of Vit d 3 and mid March was at 53.....my new doctor is having me increase my dose as he wants it higher. Any brand recommendations for someone struggling on one income for the family for fish oil? Thanks for all of your articles. I am learning so much and will regain my health in time!

  • wendys

    4/26/2010 9:42:26 PM |

    Did they do a full colesteral work-up and will they show the results if it shows that Dane's numbers got worse instead or better?

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