Dr. William Blanchet: A voice of reason

I don't mean to beat this discussion to a pulp, but looking back over the comments posted on www.theHeart.org forum, I am so deeply impressed with Dr. William Blanchet's grasp of the issues, that I posted his articulate and knowledgeable comments again.

Here is one post in which Dr. Blanchet, in response to accusations of trying to profit from heart scans, provides a wonderful summary of the logic and evidence behind the use of heart scans as the basis for heart disease prevention.


Yes, I have seen a dramatic reduction in coronary events.

Of 6,000 active patients, 48% being Medicare age and over, I have seen 4 heart attacks over the last 3+ years. 2 in 85 year old diabetics undergoing cancer surgery, one in a 90 year old with known disease and one in a 69 year old with no risk factors, who was healthy, and had never benefited from a heart scan.

The problem with coronary disease is that we rely on risk factors. Khot et al in JAMA 2003 showed that of 87,000 men with heart attacks, 62% had 0 or 1 major risk factor prior to their MI. According to ATP-III, almost everyone with 0-1 risk factors is low risk and most do not qualify for preventive treatment. EBT calcium imaging could identify 98% of these individuals as being at risk before their heart attack and treatment could be initiated to prevent their MI.

Treating to NCEP cholesterol goals prevents 30-40% of heart attacks. Treating to a goal of coronary calcium stability prevents 90% of heart attacks. Where I went to school, a 40% was an F. Why are we defending this result instead of striving to improve upon it? I am not making this up, look at Raggi's study in Arteriosclerosis, Thrombosis, and Vascular Biology 2004;24:1272, or Budoff Am J Card.[I believe it's the study Dr. Blanchet was referring to.]

I strongly disagree with the assertion that the stress test is a great risk stratifier. Laukkanen et al JACC 2001 studied 1,769 asymptomatic men with stress tests. Although failing the stress test resulted in an increased risk of future heart attack, 83% of the total heart attacks over the next 10 years occurred in those men who passed the stress test. Falk E, Shah PK, Fuster V Circulation 1995;92:657-671 demonstrated that 86% of heart attacks occur in vessels with less than 70% as the maximum obstruction. A vast majority of
patients with less than 70% vessel obstruction will pass their stress test.

Regarding [the] question of owning or referring for EBT imaging, I would be amused if it were not insulting. The mistake that is often made is that EBT imaging is a wildly profitable technology. It is not nearly as profitable as nuclear stress imaging. Indeed there are few EBT centers in the country that are as profitable as any random cardiologist's stress lab.

How can we justify not screening asymptomatic patients? Most heart attacks occur in patients with no prior symptoms and according to Steve Nissen, 150,000 Americans die each year from their first symptom of heart disease. My daughter is at this moment visiting with a friend who lost her father a few years ago to his first symptom of heart disease when she was 8 years old. That is not OK! We screen asymptomatic women for breast cancer risk. Women are 8 times more likely to die from heart disease than breast cancer. We do mass screening for colon cancer and we are over 10 times more likely to die from heart attacks than colon cancer. An EBT heart scan costs 1/8th the cost of a colonoscopy.

So what say we drop the sarcasm and look at this technology objectively. Read the literature, not just the editorial comments. This really does provide incredibly valuable information that saves lives.

Yes, a 90% reduction in heart attacks in my patients compared to the care I could provide 5 years ago when I was doing a lot of stress testing and referring for revascularization. Much better statistics than expected national or regional norms. I welcome your scrutiny.



That's probably the best, most concise summary of why heart scanning makes sense that I've ever heard. And it comes from a primary care physician in the trenches. With just a few paragraphs, Dr. Blanchet, in my view, handily trumps the arguments of my colleagues arguing to maintain the status quo of cholesterol testing, stress tests, and hospital procedures.


Note:
Dr. Blanchett talks openly about his affiliation with an imaging center in Boulder, Colorado, Front Range Preventive Imaging. I'm no stranger to the accusations Dr. Blanchet receives about trying to profit from the heart scan phenomenon. Ironically, heart scanning loses money. It is a preventive test, not a therapeutic, hospital-based procedure. Free-standing heart scan centers that do little else (perhaps virtual colonoscopies) usually manage to pay their bills but make little profit. Hospitals that offer heart scans usually do so as a "loss-leader," i.e., an inexpensive test that brings you in the door in the hopes that you will require more testing.

Accusations of profiteering off heart scans are, to those in the know, ridiculous and baseless. On the contrary, heart scans are both cost-saving and life-saving.

Vitamin D2 rip-offs

Here's a sampling of prescription vitamin D2/ergocalciferol products available:






Prescription ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) (Drisdol brand), 50 caps for $130.84.










Alfcip brand of erogocalciferol (vitamin D), 30 capsules for $28.20.









Ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as Drisdol oral solution, 1 bottle $146.26.










How about vitamin D3/cholecalciferol?



Carlson's brand cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), 120 capsules $5.09.









Cholecalciferol, vitamin D3, is far less expensive than ergocalciferol, vitamin D2. Cholecalciferol is available as a supplement without prescription. Ergocalciferol is available only by prescription.

The price difference must mean that the plant-based form, ergocalciferol, must be far superior to the naturally-occurring human form, vitamin D3.

Of course, that's not true. Dr. Robert Heaney's study is just one of several documenting the inferiority of D2/ergocalciferol, Vitamin D2 Is Much Less Effective than Vitamin D3 in Humans. D2 exerted less than a third of the effect of D3.

In my experience, D2/ergocalciferol often exerts no effect whatsoever. One woman I consulted on came into the office having been prescribed Drisdol capsules, 50,000 units every day for the past 18 months (by mistake by her physician). Blood level of active 25-OH-vitamin D3: Zero.

But the pharmacy and drug manufacturer collected $1413 for her 18-month course. Cost for a 4000 unit per day dose of D3/cholecalciferol: $45--and it would have actually worked.

In my view, prescription vitamin D2 is yet another example of drug manufacturer scams, a product that provides no advantages, costs more, but yields bigger profits.

Yet this wonderful supplement called cholecalciferol, among which Carlson's is an excellent choice, is available to you inexpensively, without prescription, and actually provides the benefits you desire.

Stenosis detection vs. plaque detection

One of the most common misunderstandings encountered by both physicians and the public is that, to create an effective heart disease prevention program, we need tools for atherosclerotic plaque detection. What we do not need is a tool for stenosis detection. (Stenosis means percent blockage. A 50% stenosis means 50% of the diameter of an artery is reduced by atherosclerosis.)

This issue came to mind recently with the ongoing conversation at Heart.org forum, in which the conversation predictably degenerated into a "what good are heart scans when there are better tests to detect blockage" sort of mentality.
They are right: There are better tests to detect stenoses or blockages, such as stress tests, heart catheterization, and CT coronary angiography. If someone is having chest pain or breathlessness, these tests are useful to help understand why. These tests are preludes to stents, bypass surgery, and the like. They are the popular tools in hospitals, the ones that provide entry into the revenue-yielding world of heart disease procedures.

Plaque detection, on the other hand, is principally a tool for the person without symptoms. In this regard, it is more like cholesterol testing. I doubt my colleagues would bash cholesterol because it doesn't reveal blockages. Plaque detection identifies the person who has already started developing atherosclerosis.

Dr. William Blanchett of Colorado articulates this idea well:

EBT calcium imaging not only identifies the vast majority of individuals at risk, it also identifies individuals with minimal risk. In other words, it distinguishes those who are likely to benefit from treatment . . .and it identifies those unlikely to benefit from treatment. Furthermore, the greatest value of EBT calcium imaging is that with serial imaging you can determine who is and who is not responding to treatment.

Those patients not responding to the initial treatment are identified by progression of their calcified plaque on a subsequent scan are then placed on additional therapies. The net result is a remarkable reduction in heart attack rates.

Ahh, the voice of reason. Plaque detection empowers you in your prevention program. If you know how much plaque your begin with, you can track that value to know whether you have having a full effect or not. Stenosis detection, on the other hand, empowers your doctor and provides the irresistible impulse to stent.

Another common objection raised to plaque detection is "why bother if you're going to give everybody a statin anyway?" We know the origins of that argument, don't we? If the only strategy known to your doctor is cholesterol reduction with statin drugs, then perhaps that's right. But, with awareness of all the things that go beyond statin drugs, often make them unnecessary, then knowledge of who should engage in an intensive program of prevention or not is enabled by plaque detection.

Is an increase in heart scan score GOOD?

In response to an earlier Heart Scan Blog post, I don't care about hard plaque!, reader Dave responded:

Hello Dr Davis,

Interesting post about hard and soft plaque. I recently had a discussion with my GP regarding my serious increase in scan score (Jan 2006 = 235, Nov 2007 = 419).

After the first scan we started aggressively going after my LDL, HDL and Trig...196,59,221

And have them down to 103, 65, 92 - we still have a way to go to 60/60/60 [The Track Your Plaque target values]-

So the increase is a surprise, but my doctor said that the increase could in part be cause some of the soft plaque had been converted to hard plaque and the scan would show that conversion.



Dave's doctor then responded to him with this comment:

"Remember that although your coronary calcium score has gone up, this does not mean that you are at greater risk than you were a year ago. Remember that the most dangerous plaque is the not-yet calcified soft plaque, which will not show up on an EBT [i.e., calcium score]. It is only the safe, calcified plaque that can be measured with the EBT. [Emphasis mine.] For your score to go up like it did, while your lipids came down so much, what had to happen was that lots of dangerous unstable plaque was converted to stable, calcified plaque. There are no accepted guidelines for interpreting changes in calcium scores over time, because the scores tend to go up as treatment converts dangerous plaque to safer plaque. We do know that aggressively lowering LDL reduces both unstable and stable plaque, and we know that risk can be further lowered by adjuvant therapy such as I listed above."


Huh?

This bit of conventional "wisdom" is something I've heard repeated many times. Is it true?

It is absolutely NOT true. In fact, the opposite is true: Dave's substantial increase in heart scan score from 235 to 419 over 22 months, representing a 78% increase, or an annualized rate of increase of 37%. This suggests a large increase in his risk for heart attack, not a decrease. Big difference!

Dr. Paulo Raggi's 2004 study, Progression of coronary artery calcium and risk of first myocardial infarction in patients receiving cholesterol-lowering therapy in 495 participants addresses this question especially well. Two heart scans were performed three years apart, with a statin drug initiated after the first scan, regardless of score.

During the period of study, heart attacks occurred in 41 participants. When these participants were analyzed, it was found that the average annual increase in score over the three year period was 42%. The average annual rate of increase in those free of heart attack was 17%. The group with the 42% annual rate of increase--all on statin drugs--the risk of heart attack was 17.2-fold greater, or 1720%.

The report made several other important observations:

--20% of the heart attack-free participants showed reduction of heart scan scores, i.e., reversal. None of the participants experiencing heart attack had a score reduction.
--Only 2 of the 41 heart attacks occurred in participants with <15% per year annual growth, while the rest (39) showed larger increases.
--The intensity of LDL reduction made no difference in whether heart attacks occurred or not. Those with LDL<100 mg/dl fared no better than those with LDL>100 mg/dl.

Dr. Raggi et al concluded:

"The risk of hard events [heart attack] was significantly higher in the presence of CVS [calcium volume score] progression despite low LDL serum levels, although the interaction of CVS change and LDL level on treatment was highly significant. The latter observation strongly suggests that a combination of serum markers and vascular markers [emphasis mine] may constitute a better way to gauge therapeutic effectiveness than isolated measurement of lipid levels."

This study demonstrates an important principle: Rising heart scan scores signal potential danger, regardless of LDL cholesterol treatment. Yes, LDL reduction does achieve a modest reduction in heart attack, but it does not eliminate them--not even close.

These are among the reasons that, in the Track Your Plaque program, we aim to correct more than LDL cholesterol. We aim to correct ALL causes of coronary plaque, factors that can be responsible for continuing increase in heart scan score despite favorable LDL cholesterol values.

So, Dave, please forgive your doctor his misunderstanding of the increase in your heart scan score. He is not alone in his ignorance of the data and parroting of the mainstream mis-information popular among the statin-is-the-answer-to-everything set.

Just don't let your doctor's ignorance permit the heart attack that is clearly in the stars. Take preventive action now.

The Heart.org online debate

There's a fascinating and vigorous debate going on at the Heart.org website among Dr. Melissa Shirley-Walton, the recently publicized proponent of "a cath lab on every corner": Dr. William Blanchet, a physician in northern Colorado; and a Track Your Plaque Member who calls himself John Q. Public.

John Q. has been trying to educate the docs about the Track Your Plaque program. Unfortunately, Dr. Shirley-Walton essentially pooh-poohs his comments, preferring to lament her heavy work load. In her last post, when she discovered that John Q. was not a physician, she threatened to block his posts and delete all prior posts.

However, Dr. Blanchet has emerged as a champion of heart scanning, intensive lipid management, and lipoproteins, much similar to our program. In fact, many of Dr. Blanchet's comments were so similar to mine that John Q. asked me if it was really me! (It is definitely not.)


Here's a sampling of some of the discussion going on now:


Dr. Blanchett started out the discussion by saying:

Stent Insanity
I have no trouble agreeing with the argument that we have initiated the widespread use of DES without adequate study regarding outcomes. Shame on us.

That said, we are ingoring the DATA that shows that most heart attacks occur as a result of non-obstructing plaque and all the talk about which stent to use ignors the majority of individuals at risk. In addition, for a decade we have known that stenting does not improve net outcomes anyway.

What ever happened to effective primary prevention? We discarded EBT calcium imaging like moldy cabbage without even looking at the outcomes DATA. With direction provided by EBT calcium imaging and effective primary prevention, I have been able to reduce myocardial infarction by 90% in my very large Internal Medicine practice. Through effectively identifying patients at risk and measuring success or failure of treatment with serial EBT, I have made the argument as to which stent to use moot. No symptomatic angina and rare infracts equals little need for any stent.

Is anybody listening? Certainly not the cardiologists whose wealth and fortunes are based on nuclaer imaging, angiography and stenting.



Dr. Shirley-Walton, skeptical of Dr. Blanchet's claim of >90% reduction of heart attacks using a prevention program starting with a heart scan:

To rely soley upon a calcium score will deprive you of a lot of information that could be otherwise helpful in the management of your patients.

Without seeming sarcastic, I must refute : "of 6,000 patients I've seen 4 heart attacks in 3 years". Although I certainly hope your statistics are accurate, I will suggest the following:

You've not seen all of the heart attacks since up to 30% of all heart attacks are clinically silent. So unless you are echo'ing or nuclear testing all of these patients in close followup, you aren't certain of your stats.

Secondly, in order to attribute this success to your therapy, you would have to have nearly 100% compliance. In the general population, compliance is often less than 50% with any regimen in any given year of treatment. If you can tell us how you've achieved this level of compliance, we could all take a lesson.




Dr. Blanchett, commenting on his use of heart scanning as a primary care physician:

CAC [coronary artery calcium] is an inexpensive and low radiation exam to identify who is at increased risk for heart attacks.

A study of 222 non-diabetic patients admitted with their first MI found 75% of them did not qualify for cholesterol modifying therapy prior to their initial MI (JACC 2003:41 1475-9). In another study of 87,000 men with heart attacks, 62% had 0 or 1 major risk factors (Khot, et al. JAMA. 2003). Almost all individuals with 0 or 1 risk factor are Framingham "Low risk" and therefore will not qualify for cholesterol lowering therapies. (JAMA. 2001;285:2486-2497)


Risk factors alone are not sufficient. In my practice, of the last 4 patients who have died from heart attacks, none qualified for preventive therapies by NCEP guidelines.

Studies have shown that CAC by EBT provides an independent and incremental predictor of heart attack risk. (1. Kondos et al, Circulation 2003;107:2571-2176, 2. Am Heart J 141. 378-382, 2001, 3. St Francis Heart Study Journal of the American College of Cardiology July, 2005) The old saw that CAC simply reflects risk factors and age is just wrong.


Although CT angiography shows great promise to reduce unnecessary conventional angiography and is helpful in emergency room chest pain evaluation, I do not see CT angiography as a screening study in asymptomatic individuals. 10 times more radiation than EBT calcium imaging plus the risk of IV dye exposure makes CT angiography inconsistent with the principles of a screening test. Taken in the context of a primary care physician's evaluation of heart attack risk, EBT calcium imaging has great value.

Coronary calcium changes management by: 1. Identifying those at risk who do not show up with standard risk stratification (St Francis Heart Study: Journal of the American College of Cardiology July, 2005). 2. Motivating patients to be compliant with therapies (Atherosclerosis 2006; 185:394-399). 3. By measuring serial calcium, we can see who is and who is not responding to our initial treatment so that we can further refine our therapeutic goals (Atherosclerosis, 2004;24:1272).

When used in the primary care preventive setting, CAC imaging is indeed of great incremental value. In my practice, in improves my outcomes so greatly that it compels Melissa Walton-Shirley to question my veracity.



Dr. Melissa Walton-Shirley:

Ahhhhhh.......the aroma of profit making, I thought I smelled it. [Accusing Dr. Blanchett of referring patients for heart scans for personal profit.]

I will tell you that I was a little hurt when I was called "a typical cardiologist with a butcher block mentality" after my primary pci piece for med-gen Med was reviewed by the track your placque [sic] folks.

Though, it's clear that they misunderstood and thought I was cathing for dollars, instead my intention was to "push" for primary PCI for AMI, it left me seething until the blessing of a busy schedule and a forgetful post menopausal brain took its toll.
None the less, an honest open discussion is always welcome here but I would appreciate it if everyone would just divulge their affiliations up front so that the context of their opinions could be better understood.

I also insist that the compliance described by you William B. is rather astounding and a bit unbelieveable, however if it's accurate, you are to be congratulated.




Dr. Blanchett, in response to Dr. Shirley-Walton's statement that she relies on stress testing:

I think that the threshold of comfort you get from stress test stratification is different than what I consider acceptable. It is hard for me to tell a bereaved spouse that the departed did everything I suggested and still died from a MI. Coronary calcium imaging provides me the tool that I need.

Are you aware that there are a number of studies that show a dramatic increase in risk of MI in individuals with an annualized increase in calcified plaque burden of >14%? I consider this to be a valuable measure of inadequacy of medical management. A stress test does not become positive until we have catastrophically failed in medical management. Consequently, even in the patient with “high risk” stratification, one can justify a calcium score to establish a baseline to measure adequacy of primary prevention. Calcium scores by EBT cost about 1/5th the cost of a nuclear stress test and subject the patient to 1/10th the radiation of nuclear imaging and provides more precise information.

Regarding John Q, I do not think that non-medical prospective should be excluded from this blog. I think we as physicians benefit from hearing how the non-physician public views medicine. I have become much better at what I do by listening to my patients and learning from them.


Dr. Blanchett continues:

Yes, I have seen a dramatic reduction in coronary events. Of 6,000 active patients, 48% being Medicare age and over, I have seen 4 heart attacks over the last 3+ years. 2 in 85 year old diabetics undergoing cancer surgery, one in a 90 year old with known disease and one in a 69 year old with no risk factors, who was healthy, and had never benefited from a heart scan.

The problem with coronary disease is that we rely on risk factors. Khot et al in JAMA 2003 showed that of 87,000 men with heart attacks, 62% had 0 or 1 major risk factor prior to their MI. According to ATP-III, almost everyone with 0-1 risk facto is low risk and most are do not qualify for preventive treatment. EBT calcium imaging could have identify 98% of these individuals as being at risk before their heart attack and treatment could be initiated to prevent their MI.

Treating to NCEP cholesterol goals prevents 30-40% of heart attacks. Treating to a goal of coronary calcium stability prevents 90% of heart attacks. Where I went to school a 40% was an F. Why are we defending this result instead of striving to improve upon it? I am not making this up, look at Raggi's study in Ateriosclerosis, Thrombosis, and Vascular Biology 2004;24:1272, or Budoff Am J Card


Melissa, I strongly disagree with the assertion that the stress test is a great risk stratifier. Laukkanen et al JACC 2001 studied 1,769 asymptomatic men with stress tests. Although failing the stress test resulted in an increased risk of future heart attack, 83% of the total heart attacks over the next 10 years occurred in those men who passed the stress test.
Falk E, Shah PK, Fuster V Circulation 1995;92:657-671 demonstrated that 86% of heart attacks occur in vessels with less than 70% as the maximum obstruction. A vast majority of patients with less than 70% vessel obstruction will pass thier stress test.


William, regarding your question of owning or referring for EBT imaging, I would be amused if it were not insulting. The mistake that is often made is that EBT imaging is a wildly profitable technology. It is not nearly as profitable as nuclear stress imaging. Indeed there are few EBT centers in the country that are as profitable as any random cardiologists stress lab.

How can we justify not screening asymptomatic patients? Most heart attacks occur in patients with no prior symptoms and according to Steve Nissen, 150,000 Americans die each year from their first symptom of heart disease. My daughter is at this moment visiting with a friend who lost her father a few years ago to his first symptom of heart disease when she was 8 years old. That is not OK! We screen asymptomatic women for breast cancer risk. Women are 8 times more likely to die from heart disease than breast cancer. We do mass screening for colon cancer and we are over 10 times more likely to die from heart attacks than colon cancer. An EBT heart scan costs 1/8th the cost of a colonoscopy.

So what say we drop the sarcasm and look at this technology objectively. Read the literature, not just the editorial comments. This really does provide incredibly valuable information that saves lives.

Yes, a 90% reduction in heart attacks in my patients compared to the care I could provide 5 years ago when I was doing a lot of stress testing and referring for revascularization. Much better statistics than expected national or regional norms. I welcome your scrutiny.



John Q. Public jumps into the fray with:

Fascinating, isn't it, that there appear to be two doctors, William Blanchet in this forum and Dr. William Davis, FACC, of cureality.com that both claim to have dramatically reduced risk of heart attack among their patients and/or actual calcium plaque score regression and BOTH are ardent proponents of CT Calcium Scoring?


Despite Dr. Blanchet's persuasive arguments backed up with numerous scientific citations and John Q.'s support, I sense they had no effect whatsoever on Shirley-Walton's way of thinking.

Such are the deeply-entrenched habits of the cardiology community. It will be many years and impassioned pleas to see things in a different light before the wave of change seizes hold.

To learn how to eat . . . try fasting

Curious thing about fasting: It teaches you how to eat.

In previous posts, I've discussed the potential benefits of fasting: reduction of blood pressure, reduction of inflammatory responses, drop in blood sugar, weight loss, and reduced heart attack risk. In my recent Heart Scan Blog post, Fasting and Heart Disease, I discussed the just-released results of a study in people who fast for religious reasons and experience less heart disease.

Fasting can mean going entirely without food and just making do with (plenty of) water, or it can mean variations on "fasting" such as vegetable juice fasts, soy milk fasts, etc.

How can fasting teach you any lessons about food and eating?

People who fast will tell you that the experience:

--Helps you appreciate food tastes when you resume eating. After a fast, flavors are stronger; sensations like sweet, sweet, or salty are sharper; you become reacquainted with the variety of wonderful food textures.

--Makes you realize how you ate too much before your fast. After a fast, you are satisfied with less. You will eat more for taste and enjoyment, less for satiety and mindless indulgence.

--Makes you more mindful of the act of eating. For many of us, eating is an automatic activity that provides fleeting satisfaction. After a fast, each bite of food brings its own special enjoyment.

--Reveals to you how awful you felt when many foods were eaten. For example, many people are physically slightly ill after eating pancakes, pizza, or other highly processed foods but cease to recognize it. Remove the offensive foods entirely and you might realize just how bad you felt.

--Takes away fear of hunger. Many people have a gut-wrenching fear of hunger. It's probably partly instinctive, that animal-like fear of not knowing when your next meal is coming, partly the abnormal, artificial drive to eat ignited by processed foods like wheat and corn syrup.

--Makes you realize just how much of your day is spent in some activity associated with food. Shopping, eating, cleaning up afterwards, thinking and talking about food all occupy an extraordinary portion of everyone's life. A fast can open your eyes to just how much time is spent in these pursuits. Sometimes, gaining an awareness of a mindless, repetitive behavior can provide the first step towards changing direction.


Most people consider a fast for rapid weight loss. But fasting is far more than that. Perhaps fasting has become an integral part of many religious practices because of its capacity for enlightenment, reawakening, revelation, but not of only the spiritual, but also of how far many of us have strayed in diet.

Fasting is what Omnivore's Dilemma author Michael Pollen might describe as looking the pig you're about to eat in the eye, an opportunity to open your eyes to what it is you 've been doing all these years.

Don't be satisfied with "deceleration"

In the Track Your Plaque program, we aim to stop or reduce your heart scan score.

Recall that, without any preventive efforts, heart scan scores can be expected to increase at the average rate of 30% per year (faster at lower scores, slower at higher scores by a quirk of arithmetic).

I am continually surprised at how often people--that is, people not in the Track Your Plaque program--are often content with what I term "deceleration," or the slowing of plaque growth. In truth, most people are content with deceleration of plaque growth because they simply don't know that plaque continues to grow.

For instance, the BELLES Trial (Beyond Endorsed Lipid Lowering with EBT Scanning (BELLES)), reported in 2005 showed that 650 women participants continued to increase heart scan scores 15% whether they took "high-intensity" statin therapy in the form of Lipitor 80 mg or "low-intensity" statin therapy as pravastatin 40 mg, even though the group taking Lipitor experienced twice the amount of LDL reduction. In other words, heart scan scores continued to increase at the same rate of 15% per year regardless of the intensity of LDL lowering by statin drug.

Another study reported in 2006, Effect of intensive versus standard lipid-lowering treatment with atorvastatin on the progression of calcified coronary atherosclerosis over 12 months: a multicenter, randomized, double-blind trial reported similar results. Of the 471 participants, those taking Lipitor 80 mg per day experienced 27% per year plaque growth (LDL cholesterol 87 mg/dl); those taking 10 mg Lipitor experienced 25% plaque growth (LDL 107 mg/dl). The intensity of statin therapy made no difference on the rate of plaque growth.

In other words, if we are content to sit back and take Lipitor or other statin drug, follow the conventional American Heart Association low-fat, low-cholesterol diet, we will experience somewhere between 15 to 27% annual plaque growth--year after year.

No wonder that conventional advice offered by your friendly neighborhood doctor will avoid (postpone?) only one heart attack in four.

Such is the nature of coronary plaque deceleration: growth is modestly slowed, but is not stopped. Nor is it reversed.

In the Track Your Plaque program, we grade deceleration of plaque growth into three distinct stages out of a total of five. (See Winning Your Personal War with Heart Disease: The Track Your Plaque 5 Stages of Success.)

Why be satisfied with deceleration? Why not aim for a total stop to plaque growth? Why not aim for stage 5 of Track Your Plaque success: reversal?

Whole grains and half truths

(For followers of the Heart Scan Blog, below is a re-posting of a recent post. I've moved it up to make it accessible to a number of patients that I asked to look at this post for some conversation about the concept of wheat-free diets.)


TV ads, media conversations, magazine articles, even advice from the American Heart Association and USDA (a la Food Pyramid) all agree: eat more whole grains, get more fiber.

What happens when you follow this advice to add more and more whole grains to your diet? Look around you: People gain weight, they become pre-diabetic and diabetic. Lipids and lipoprotein patterns emerge: increased triglycerides and VLDL, reduced HDL, small LDL. Blood sugar goes up, inflammatory responses are ignited. You feel crumby, cancer risk is increased.

"Official" agencies have urged us to eat more grains, get more fiber and most Americans have complied. We now have a nationwide health disaster that will eventually lead to more people with coronary plaque, more heart disease, more heart attack, more heart procedures.

This is why I've been urging patients to go wheat-free. It has proven an extraordinarily and surprisingly effective strategy for:

1) rapid and profound weight loss
2) raising HDL and reducing triglycerides, VLDL, and small LDL
3) reducing blood sugars, pre-diabetes and diabetes

So here I (re-) post just a sampling of the comments sent by readers of the Heart Scan Blog who have given this idea a try.






Barbara W said:

It's true! We've done it. My husband and I stopped eating all grains and sugar in February. At this point, we really don't miss them any more. It was a huge change, but it's worth the effort. I've lost over 20 pounds (10 to go)and my husband has lost 45 pounds (20 to go). On top of it, our body shapes have changed drastically. It is really amazing. I've got my waist back (and a whole wardrobe of clothes) - I'm thrilled.

I'm also very happy to be eating foods that I always loved like eggs, avocados, and meats - without feeling guilty that they're not good for me.

With the extremely hot weather this week in our area, we thought we'd "treat" ourselves to small ice cream cones. To our surprise, it wasn't that much of a treat. Didn't even taste as good as we'd anticipated. I know I would have been much more satisfied with a snack of smoked salmon with fresh dill, capers, chopped onion and drizzled with lemon juice.

Aside from weight changes, we both feel so much better in general - feel much more alert and move around with much greater flexibility, sleep well, never have any indigestion. We're really enjoying this. It's like feeling younger.

It's not a diet for us. This will be the way we eat from now on. Actually, we think our food has become more interesting and varied since giving up all the "white stuff". I guess we felt compelled to get a little more creative.

Eating out (or at other peoples' places) has probably been the hardest part of this adjustment. But now we're getting pretty comfortable saying what we won't eat. I'm starting to enjoy the reactions it produces.



Weight loss, increased energy, less abdominal bloating, better sleep--I've seen it many times, as well.


Dotslady said:

I was a victim of the '80s lowfat diet craze - doc told me I was obese, gave me the Standard American Diet and said to watch my fat (I'm not a big meat eater, didn't like mayo ... couldn't figure out where my fat was coming from! maybe the fries - I will admit I liked fries). I looked to the USDA food pyramid and to increase my fiber for the constipation I was experiencing. Bread with 3 grams of fiber wasn't good enough; I turned to Kashi cereals for 11 years. My constipation turned to steattorrhea and a celiac disease diagnosis! *No gut pains!* My PCP sent me to the gastroenterologist for a colonscopy because my ferritin was a 5 (20 is low range). Good thing I googled around and asked him to do an endoscopy or I'd be a zombie by now.

My symptoms were depression & anxiety, eczema, GERD, hypothyroidism, mild dizziness, tripping, Alzheimer's-like memory problems, insomnia, heart palpitations, fibromyalgia, worsening eyesight, mild cardiomyopathy, to name a few.

After six months gluten-free, I asked my gastroenterologist about feeling full early ... he said he didn't know what I was talking about! *shrug*

But *I* knew -- it was the gluten/starches! My satiety level has totally changed, and for the first time in my life I feel NORMAL!


Feeling satisfied with less is a prominent effect in my experience, too. You need to eat less, you're driven to snack less, less likely to give in to those evil little bedtime or middle-of-the-night impulses that make you feel ashamed and guilty.



An anonymous (female) commenter said:

My life changed when I cut not only all wheat, but all grains from my diet.

For the first time in my life, I was no longer hungry -no hunger pangs between meals; no overwhelming desire to snack. Now I eat at mealtimes without even thinking about food in between.

I've dropped 70 pounds, effortlessly, come off high blood pressure meds and control my blood sugar without medication.

I don't know whether it was just the elimination of grain, especially wheat, or whether it was a combination of grain elimnation along with a number of other changes, but I do know that mere reduction of grain consumption still left me hungry. It wasn't until I elimnated it that the overwhelming redution in appetite kicked in.

As a former wheat-addicted vegetarian, who thought she was eating healthily according to all the expert advice out there at the time, I can only shake my head at how mistaken I was.


That may be a record for me: 70 lbs!!


Stan said:

It's worth it and you won't look back!

Many things will improve, not just weight reduction: you will think clearer, your reflexes will improve, your breathing rate will go down, your blood pressure will normalize. You will never or rarely have a fever or viral infections like cold or flu. You will become more resistant to cold temperature and you will rarely feel tired, ever!



Ortcloud said:

Whenever I go out to breakfast I look around and I am in shock at what people eat for breakfast. Big stack of pancakes, fruit, fruit juice syrup, just like you said. This is not breakfast, this is dessert ! It has the same sugar and nutrition as a birthday cake, would anyone think cake is ok for breakfast ? No, but that is exactly the equivalent of what they are eating. Somehow we have been duped to think this is ok. For me, I typically eat an omelette when I go out, low carb and no sugar. I dont eat wheat but invariably it comes with the meal and I try to tell the waitress no thanks, they are stunned. They try to push some other type of wheat or sugar product on me instead, finally I have to tell them I dont eat wheat and they are doubly stunned. They cant comprehend it. We have a long way to go in terms of re-education.

Yes. Don't be surprised at the incomprehension, the rolled eyes, even the anger that can sometimes result. Imagine that told you that the food you've come to rely on and love is killing you!


Anne said:

I was overweight by only about 15lbs and I was having pitting edema in my legs and shortness of breath. My cardiologist and I were discussing the possible need of an angiogram. I was three years out from heart bypass surgery.

Before we could schedule the procedure, I tested positive for gluten sensitivity through www.enterolab.com. I eliminated not only wheat but also barley and rye and oats(very contaminated with wheat) from my diet. Within a few weeks my edema was gone, my energy was up and I was no longer short of breath. I lost about 10 lbs. The main reason I gave up gluten was to see if I could stop the progression of my peripheral neuropathy. Getting off wheat and other gluten grains has given me back my life. I have been gluten free for 4 years and feel younger than I have in many years.

There are many gluten free processed foods, but I have found I feel my best when I stick with whole foods.



Ann has a different reason (gluten enteropathy, or celiac disease) for wanting to be wheat-free. But I've seen similar improvements that go beyond just relief of the symptoms attributable to the inflammatory intestinal effects of gluten elimination.



Wccaguy said:

I have relatively successfully cut carbs and grains from my diet thus far.

Because I've got some weight to lose, I have tried to keep the carb count low and I've lost 15 pounds since then.

I have also been very surprised at the significant reduction in my appetite. I've read about the experience of others with regard to appetite reduction and couldn't really imagine that it could happen for me too. But it has.

A few weeks ago, I attended a party catered by one of my favorite italian restaurants and got myself offtrack for two days. Then it took me a couple of days to get back on track because my appetite returned.

Check out Jimmy Moore's website for lots of ideas about variations of foods to try. The latest thing I picked up from Jimmy is the good old-fashioned hard boiled egg. Two or three eggs with some spicy hot sauce for breakfast and a handful of almonds mid-morning plus a couple glasses of water and I'm good for the morning no problem.

I find myself thinking about lunch not because I'm really hungry but out of habit.

The cool thing too now is that the more I do this, the more I'm just not tempted much to do anything but this diet.



Going wheat-free, along with a reduction in processed sugary foods like Hawaiian Punch, sodas, and candy, is the straightest, most direct path I know of to lose weight, obtain all the health benefits listed by our commenters, as well as achieve the lipoprotein corrections we seek, like reduction of small LDL particles and rise in HDL, in the Track Your Plaque program.

Fasting and heart disease

Followers of the Track Your Plaque program know that we advocate periodic fasts to reduce heart disease risk.

I came across an interesting report form an abstract presented at last week's American Heart Association meetings in Orlando:

(Read the report at HeartWire. You will need to register or sign-in.)

In this study, the investigators tried to determine why members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS) tended to have reduced risk of heart disease compared to others in the area but not in the LDS faith. While the reduced risk of heart disease in LDS members had been traditionally attributed to the no smoking policy advocated by the Mormon church, the investigators suspected that there was more to the reduced risk.

Of 515 people interviewed, periodic fasting, whether for religious or other reasons, was found to distinguish people who were less likely to have coronary disease by conventional catheterization (59% vs. 67%). (Since the study was published in only abstract form, it's not clear why all these people underwent heart catheterization in the first place.)

Nonetheless, it's an interesting observation and one consistent with the benefits we see when someone fasts: reduced blood pressure, reduced inflammatory responses, improved lipids and lipoproteins, weight loss.

Fasting can be an especially effective method to gain control over heart disease and coronary plaque if rapid control is desired. In fact, I wonder if the normally year-long process of plaque control that I advocate can be much abbreviated. Fasting, I believe, is a crucial component of rapid control, what I've talked about in Instant Heart Disease Reversal

There's also additional thoughts on fasting in my Heart Scan Blog post, For rapid success, try the "fast" track.

Fasting is not something to fear. It can be an enlightening process that can serve to abruptly sever bad habits, perhaps even turn the clock back on prior dietary and lifestyle excesses. My favorite variation on fasting is to use soy milk (yes, yes, I know! I can already hear the the soy bashers screaming!) as a meal substitute. It is an easy, less dramatic way that still maintains most of the benefit of a full, water-only fast.

Coronary arteries aren't what they seem

Why do stress tests so often fail to detect coronary atherosclerotic plaque? Why do even heart catheterizations--the "gold standard"--fail to disclose the full extent of plaque within the walls of coronary arteries?

We owe much of the explanation of these phenomena to Dr. Seymour Glagov, retired professor of pathology at the University of Chicago.



When studying the coronary arteries of people who died, he observed that people commonly had plenty of atherosclerotic plaque lining the artery wall, yet it did not necessarily impinge on the artery "lumen," or the internal path for blood to flow.

The only time the lumen became obstructed by plaque was when either 1) plaque grew to overwhelming levels and was severe and extensive, or 2) when a plaque had "ruptured," meaning its thin covering had been penetrated and eroded by the underlying plaque tissue like a volcano emerging from the surface and erupting.

This groundbreaking observation, now dubbed "the Glagov phenomenon," explains why someone can have a normal stress test on Tuesday but erupt a plaque on Wednesday.

The Glagov phenomenon also explains why heart scans can detect plaque when both stress tests and heart catheterizations fail to do so. Many physicians will then interpret this to mean that the heart scan was wrong. With the Glagov phenomenon in mind, you can see that the heart scan is not wrong, it is simply detecting coronary atherosclerotic plaque at a stage that is not yet detectable by the other methods.

In the illustration, you can see that the lumen of the vessel is maintained--despite the artery on the left having minimal plaque, the artery on the right containing moderate plaque. If either artery were examined by a test that relies on blood flow--stress test or heart catheterization--both would appear normal. But a test that examines the artery wall, such as a heart scan, would readily detect the artery on the right and probably even the artery on the left.




I am very grateful to Dr. Glagov and his insight into this important process. Otherwise, we might still be floundering around trying to understand the apparent discrepances between these tests that simply provide different perspectives on the same problem.
Plant-based or animal-based?

Plant-based or animal-based?

The ideal diet for heart and overall health restricts carbohydrate intake. I say this because carbohydrates:

Make you fat--Carbohydrates increase visceral fat, in particular.
Increase triglycerides
Reduce HDL
Increase small LDL particles
Increase glycation of LDL
Increase blood pressure
Increase c-reactive protein


Reducing carbohydrates reverses all the above.

But here's a common mistake many people make when following a low-carbohydrate diet: Converting to a low-carb, high-animal product diet.

It accounts for a breakfast of a 3-egg omelette with cheese and butter, 4 strips of bacon, 2 sausages, cream in coffee. Low-carb? It certainly is. But it is a purely high-animal product, no-plant-based meal.

I believe a strong argument can be made that a low-carbohydrate but plant-based diet with animal products as the side dish is a better way to go.

Consider that:

1) Animal products have little to no fiber, while plant-based products like spinach, avocado, and walnuts and other raw nuts have substantial quantities.

2) Plant products are a source of polyphenols and flavonoids--This encompasses a large universe of nutrients, from epigallocatechins in tea, polymeric procyanidins from cocoa, to hydroxytyrosol from olives, and anthocyanins from red wine and eggplant. The inflow of these beneficial compounds needs to be frequent and generous, not piddly amounts taken infrequently.

3) Vitamin C--While it's easy to obtain, the fact that you and I need to obtain vitamin C from frequent ingestion of plant sources suggests that humans were meant to eat lots of plants. While it may require a few months of deficiency before your teeth fall out, imagine what low-grade deficiency can do over a long period.

4) Vitamin K1--Rich in green vegetables, vitamin K1 is virtually absent in animal products.

5) Tocotrienols--I've been watching the data on this fascinating family of powerful oil-soluble antioxidants unfold for 20 years. Tocotrienols come only from plants. (I recently had an extended conversation with the brilliant biochemist, Dr. Barrie Tan, who is incredibly knowledgeable about tocotrienols, having developed several methods of extraction from plants, including his discovery of the highly concentrated source, annatto. Be sure to watch for future conversations about tocotrienols.)

6) Meats and dairy yield a net acid load--While plant foods are net basic. At the very least, this yields risk for osteoporosis, since acids are ultimately buffered by basic calcium salts from the bones. Tissue and blood pH is a tightly regulated system; veering off just a teensy-weensy bit from the normal pH of 7.4 to an acidic pH of, say, 7.2, leads to . . . death. In short, pH control is very important. A net acid challenge from animal products is a lot like drinking carbonated soda, a huge acid challenge that leads to osteoporosis and other health issues.

Conversely, a pure plant-based diet has its own set of problems. Eating a pure plant-based diet can lead to deficiencies of vitamin B12, omega-3 fatty acids (no, linolenic acid from flaxseed will NOT cut it), vitamin K2, carnitine, and coenzyme Q10.

So, rather than a breakfast of 3-egg omelet with bacon, sausage, cream, and cheese, how about a handful of pecans, some blueberries, and a 2-egg omelet made with basil-olive oil pesto? Or a spinach salad with walnuts, feta cheese, and lots of olive oil?

Comments (78) -

  • Jezwyn

    4/19/2010 12:02:43 AM |

    Really? You're trotting out the anti-carnivore rant again?
    Would you like to back up your claim that we somehow need fibre?
    Or polyphenols and flavonoids, and tocotrienols, in the absence of the oxidised situations they counter?
    Do you consider that Vitamin C is absorbed better when dietary glucose is minimised, as the two require the same uptake system and glucose will hog that system if it's present?
    If we need Vitamin K1, why didn't the Inuit suffer debilitating deficiencies?
    Why didn't they die young of bone fragility if their blood pH was truly so dangerously affected by acid load?

    It seems like your ideas here are based on unproven theories, not practical, clinical scientific demonstrations. If you'd like to link to studies demonstrating how individuals following a carnivorous diet (preferably one based on pastured, wild animals) suffer in the manner you've outlined, I'd love to read them.

    I really respect your blog and your efforts with helping your patients find lifestyles that work for them, but uninformed, unsupported posts like these are very disappointing.

  • John Phillip

    4/19/2010 1:10:41 AM |

    Absolutely correct, as always.  I switched from the Standard American Diet 5 years ago to a raw, plant based diet of dark green leafy vegetables, nuts, seeds, healthy fats and lean protein... no low carb, highly processed or over cooked meats. Totally eliminated wheat and corn based foods, and especially anything with HFCS. My blood sugar has dropped to below 100 1 and 2 hour post prandial and my A1C is 4.5.  Also, triglycerides are 50 and VAP shows mostly large LDL.  It really works, and I have seen it work for others who have followed the same program.  I write about it at my blog: myoptimalhealthresource.blogspot.com. Having read Dr. Davis for years, I would like to thank him for his spot on information!

  • Mike

    4/19/2010 1:29:43 AM |

    How about crushing a nice 10oz grass fed, organic, free range steak along with that salad, and then the whole debate of plant vs animal debate is moot?

  • Jenny

    4/19/2010 1:29:43 AM |

    It's a myth that eating a high animal protein low carb diet will cause bone loss. Studies do not support this.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16718399?dopt=Abstract

  • Anonymous

    4/19/2010 2:21:11 AM |

    to include more plant-based options in anyone's diet, this blog post from Chris Masterjohn seems to contradict your 6th point.

    So although I may arch an eyebrow at that point, I still agree that we shouldn't be consuming animal products ad libitum at the expense of plant-based options.

    Randy Watson

  • sr

    4/19/2010 3:57:51 AM |

    Do we really need fiber? I recall a chapter in Taubes' book saying that fiber doesn't do much for you if you're not constipated. And Vilhjalmur Stefansson went for 2 years without eating vegetables and had no problems with scurvy. Apparently anti-nutrients in carbs up our vitamin C requirements. If I recall correctly it uses the same GLUT transporters glucose does.

  • PRIDE MAFIA

    4/19/2010 4:23:35 AM |

    Lots of Carbs and  O-6 in nuts;this is good?

  • Alan

    4/19/2010 4:26:28 AM |

    No thanks.. I'll stick to the eggs meat and cheese and get plenty of Vit C in the process. You absolutely don't need plants in your diet, they aren't magic..

  • Gyan

    4/19/2010 5:35:30 AM |

    Vitamin-C can be supplied by raw green chillies.

    Is Vitamin-K1 required? I thought all vitamin-K1 does is to convert to K2.

    IS Fiber essential? if yes, then in what quantity?

  • Rick

    4/19/2010 5:58:42 AM |

    Dr Davis, Do the plant foods you list in your suggested breakfast menus at the end qualify as low carb?

  • David

    4/19/2010 6:40:59 AM |

    wow, I can just see the pro-animal fat nuts rushing to retort to this one... pardon the pun, but it's like red meat to a caged lion...

  • Ellen

    4/19/2010 9:52:51 AM |

    Actually, it wasn't UNTIL I ate more saturated fat (in the form of butter and coconut oil) that I saw a significant improvement in my HDL. Up until that point it was hovering around 50'ish. It shot up to 80 after incorporating the coconut oil. Unless you would consider coconut oil plant based even though it's mostly saturated fat?

    I sincerely attribute my improved HDL to saturated fat.

  • Torquemada

    4/19/2010 10:09:53 AM |

    but that... but that means we can't use low carb as an excuse to indulge in an orgy of gluttony with bacon, cheese mayo and steak.

  • Joachim

    4/19/2010 10:16:21 AM |

    Do you think eating a balanced plant/animal diet (low-carb) would be sufficient as an everyday diet/lifestyle?

    I've been doing a similar low-carb ketogenic diet the last 4-5 months and never felt better. I'm planning on doing the ketogenic diet again but my doctor and my girlfriend her dietician said that this diet is very bad for the liver and the cardiovascular system.

    The only drawback in my opinion is the lack of fruits in order to stay in keto.

    What's your take on this?

  • SamAbroad

    4/19/2010 11:14:39 AM |

    Oops, forgot to include the link to the paper:

    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/3/682

  • Vlado

    4/19/2010 11:21:02 AM |

    I am on a fish diet where 50% of my calories are coming from it(wild salmon) and have finally gained an ideal weight but i also eat some fruits and dark chocolate as well.There is a lot to be said about acidity factor which means that we are meant to eat both heavy and light foods to balance. The most important omission from diet would be grains , processed foods and vegetable oils.

  • LeonRover

    4/19/2010 11:47:37 AM |

    I thought that one of the observations that explorer Steffansson made on the health of his Inuit hosts was the lack of scurvy in the settlement.

    I also believe that in the absence of plant food,it has been concluded that meat can supply sufficient Vitamin C to prevent scurvy.

    It seems to me that to conclude " that humans were meant to eat lots of plants" is a conclusion too far.

    I suggest that the "or" in your should not be read as "either/or" but the "logical or" meaning " one or both".

  • Tom M

    4/19/2010 1:29:13 PM |

    Utterly ridiculous suggestion. Regardless of all the details that have been covered by previous posters, do you consider eating modern fruit and vegetables to be 'in tune' with the way we were designed to eat?

    A plant based diet is only possible through modern means, mainly transportation. I'm sure American olive oil is fantastic.

    I really don't think you've thought this through. Where are the calories? Do you drink a pint of walnut oil a day? Keeping carbohydrates and  animal sources down leaves you incredibly limited.

    Lastly, the idea of a 'side dish' of meat is absurd. Picture the scene: Hunter Tom in England kills an Auroch, begins gorging on the bountiful fat surrounding it's kidneys but then remembers: 'oh, better stop, I have boiled nettles awaiting'.

    Get real, kids don't like vegetables for a reason.

  • Anonymous

    4/19/2010 1:41:04 PM |

    With the Inuit argument you should consider whether they consumed the gut contents of the animals they ate.

  • Stargazey

    4/19/2010 2:34:46 PM |

    So by this reasoning we should avoid fruits because of their citric acid content?

  • Gretchen

    4/19/2010 2:36:12 PM |

    Too many people assume that anyone on a LC diet is pigging out out on huge amounts of fatty meats and cheese, with no vegetables. This is simply not true.

    It's like criticizing someone on a low-fat diet by saying they're eating a breakfast consisting of two bowls of cereal, 3 cups of skim milk, 5 pieces of toast, 2 tablespoons of jam, and 3 glasses of OJ.

    If I choose to eat bacon and eggs, I'd have one poached egg with a quarter of a pat of butter, and 1 slice of bacon. Maybe 2.

    In your point 1 you're comparing spinach with meat. Apples and oranges. You need to compare a complete animal- protein-including meal with a complete animal-protein-lacking meal.

    Re point No. 2: you can get vitamin C from uncooked meat. Does this mean we're meant to eat uncooked meat?

    I eat plenty of LC vegetables. I just don't eat an all-vegetable meal because I need protein to stabilize my blood sugar and hold me until the next meal.

    It's very difficult to do a vegetarian LC diet because we need protein, and the usual vegetarian protein sources like beans and rice are too carby. The only exception is tofu, and one cannot live on tofu alone.

  • zach

    4/19/2010 3:05:36 PM |

    I totally disagree. The points on vitamin K and vitamin C are startling- very much at odds with my layman's research. Certain organ meats are sky high in vitamin C. The need for C also goes down on a low sugar diet. Conversion from K1 to the all important K2 is very poor in humans eating a plant based diet. Where is K2 MK4 found? Pastured eggs and dairy, seafood, organ meats, etc.

  • Kevin

    4/19/2010 3:05:36 PM |

    Ah, the voice of reason.  How the hell did you get in here?  

    Stuffing oneself with 5000 calories of fat every day made no sense when I was reading Atkins 15 years ago.  I think we evolved to be able to eat healthily using animal and vegetable sources.  Our modern health problems don't stem from anything more than excesses of everything.  Although it's much harder to ingest excess vegetables compared with meat.  

    kevin

  • Christopher Robbins

    4/19/2010 3:31:42 PM |

    The major problem I see in this recommendation is that without calorically dense, starchy carbs and/or a lot more fat it would be hard to take in enough calories. I can deal with the fat. Even Mark Sisson champions the Big Ass Salad. And Stephan at wholehealthsource has started including more veggies & carbs. I do think animal protein/fat should make up the bulk of the diet though.

  • Ellen

    4/19/2010 4:26:19 PM |

    Yeah, fiber's over-rated. So is olive oil. Olive oil never did *anything* for my lipid profile. Olive oil makes you fat.

  • Anonymous

    4/19/2010 4:44:00 PM |

    People evolves, even to feed on pasta: http://www.visitlimonesulgarda.com/index.asp?menu=13.58

    Thinking we're the same animal that fed on mammoths 10k years ago and that we have to eat that makes little sense.

    Thinking we all would react the same to an inuit diet, having inuits evolved for such a long time to survive where they live eating where they eat, makes no sense.

    There are many people on the planet that live health and diets vary a lot.

    Dr Davids, and anyone else for that matter, can only give pointers, but everyone has to find its own way to health and not expect it to be the same for every one and to be one single real truth.

    We are 6 billion mutants with 6 billion different ideal diets

  • Christine

    4/19/2010 4:46:00 PM |

    Now you're talking my language, Dr. D. Great post! I welcome more like this one. This reader wants to know everything you know on the subject of low carb plants vs high fat meat/dairy.

  • Chris Kresser

    4/19/2010 4:50:51 PM |

    Jezwyn, you took the words right out of my mouth.

    Let's see some proof for these claims.  You'll be hard-pressed to find it.

    Tell the Masai and Inuit that you need a diet high in plant foods to be healthy.

  • Ned Kock

    4/19/2010 4:56:23 PM |

    I tend to believe that a diet with plant AND animal products is at least quasi-optimal, in part for evolutionary reasons:

    http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/02/lucy-was-vegetarian-and-sapiens.html

    But on the acid-base blood balance argument, there are a number of other issues to consider:

    - Lack of activity leads to bone demineralization, regardless of what you eat. Astronauts start losing bone mass soon after the start living in zero-gravity.

    - Higher protein intake is associated with higher dietary calcium absorption.

    - Higher serum levels of vitamin D are associated with increased serum calcium levels and bone mineralization. In fact, hypervitaminosis D leads to elevated serum calcium levels, even with low dietary calcium intake.

    - The Inuit, on a traditional diet of animal meat and fat, have among the lowest (if not THE lowest) rates of tooth decay in the world - and bone mineralization is correlated with teeth health (although the correlation is not 1).

  • Alan S David

    4/19/2010 5:03:46 PM |

    You describe my diet to a "t". Low animal products, lots of plant based. Low carb.So at 61, I am told I look in my 40's, rarely ( if ever) suffer from any of the common afflictions, and enjoy robust health. Gotta be something right about all this.
    Confirmed heavy animal products in your diet lead to all sorts of problems. Minimize them and you minimize the problems.

  • Dave, RN

    4/19/2010 6:18:31 PM |

    Aw man, you lose credibility when you publish stuff like this...

  • Anonymous

    4/19/2010 6:42:45 PM |

    I've been on a low carb diet for years, but my health was never so improved as when I finally cut all plant matter out of my diet.

    -Amber

  • schubie

    4/19/2010 7:09:33 PM |

    Is it my imagination or were the previous recommendations when I started reading this blog many months ago more evidenced-based pointing to specific studies, and lately they've been much shorter and more like "statements" of "fact" without any supporting documentation?

    I don't get it.

    Smells like someone's trying to court a little controversy to generate some buzz.

  • Martin Levac

    4/19/2010 7:40:56 PM |

    It's easy to forget the Stefansson all meat trial. It was supposed to answer all those questions and doubts about various deficiencies such as vitamin C or calcium. And it did in my view. So why does doubt still persist to this day?

    If you believe that you should eat plants, then go ahead an eat them. But for a PSA, stick to the facts.

  • Martin Levac

    4/19/2010 8:01:39 PM |

    Sorry, in my haste to bring an argument in favor of an all meat diet, I forgot this argument against a plant based diet.

    Dr Davis, you say "I believe a strong argument can be made that a low-carbohydrate but plant-based diet with animal products as the side dish is a better way to go."

    It's already been weighed and measured and found to be lacking. In comes Ancel Keys and his semi-starvation experiment. It is exactly the kind of diet you propose: Low carb plant-based diet with animal products as the side dish. The result? Emaciation and neurosis. But that was a low calorie diet, you say. And probably lacked many nutrients, you say. Yes and yes. In comes the Biosphere 2 project which tried to fix one of those problems by administering the full RDA in vitamins and minerals every day. The result? Still emaciation and neurosis but admittedly to a lesser extent. Maybe it would work with ample calories?

    I don't think it's merely a question of calories at this point. I think it's partly a question of essential nutrients found only in animal flesh. Or a question of the depleting nature of a high plant diet. In other words, eating a high plant diet requires more of those essential nutrients, including total calories, found only in animal flesh.

  • Anonymous

    4/19/2010 8:16:03 PM |

    Ok. I just found your blog. Now I'm really confused. These two questions I'd like answered:

    -Where do you agree/disagree with Esselstyn?

    -What am I supposed to feed my three year old. He eats oatmeal and fruit for breakfast? (It's supposed to be healthy!)

  • Aaron

    4/19/2010 8:21:16 PM |

    Great post -- and to the vegetable naysayers -- there is more evidence to suggest than not that veggies are a healthy addition one's diet.

    A low carb, non-veggie diet is an experiment -- "if" it turns out to be healthy, more power to it.

    In the mean time -- I'm sticking with the decent epistemological studies out there that support the use of veggies/fruit the diet.

  • pmpctek

    4/19/2010 8:50:19 PM |

    @ John Phillip,

    I accomplished all those milestones, plus my HDL is over 70 mg/dl, all on a heavy carnivore dominant diet. John, you curiously did not divulge your HDL level.

    @ Jenny,

    Agreed.  Myths are hard to kill.  This acid/alkaline theory of disease is clearly a long standing one.  

    Absence of renal and lung disease, the homeostatic mechanisms controlling the pH of our blood are incredibly robust and tightly regulated.  Even if you have poor regulation of bicarbonate concentrations in blood (dialysis patient) or you suffer from chronic respiratory acidosis (hyperventilation) it's not as though eating more plant foods and restricting meat and cheese will at all reverse the acidic condition these more serious underlying disturbances cause.

    Even if meat and cheese yields a heavy acid load, all that may result is slightly more acidic urine.  There is no credible evidence that proves the act of intentionally alkalizing your own urine by dietary restrictions prevents or treats any disease, makes you feel better, or anything else.

  • Scott Miller

    4/19/2010 10:52:37 PM |

    The evolutionary evidence indicates our paleolithic (pre-agriculture) ancestors ate a LOT of meat. It doesn't make any sense that meat is unhealthy to humans.

    And, the present-day evidence supports meat consumption, too.

    In my case, I've been on a ~10% carb diet (mostly salad and vegetable carbs, no grains, very little fruits) for 5+ years. My blood stats are outrageously healthy (at 48 yrs old). HDL = 98, trigs 47, VLDL = 4, C-RP = 0.2. A1c = 4.8.  I can go on and on. I look 10 years younger than I am, my VO2 max is 52 (and I do not do any cardio), bodyfat = 10%, and I have no arterial plaque.

    Sadly, I do not like seafood, so I eat red meat almost exclusively, plus a lot of coconut oil.

    I also take over 40 supplements a day, including K2 (K1 is far less effective, not sure why you like it more, versus the animal version of K), tocotrienols (agree these are amazing), and numerous supps that reduce glycation, inflammation, and brain degeneration.

    BTW, natural fed meats are greatly superior, but even grain fed meats are adequate. And red meat is healthier than chicken meat due to having significantly lower levels of polyunsaturated fatty acids.

  • thania

    4/19/2010 11:15:16 PM |

    I think in something so important as "nutrition", it is not possible to adopt an "one tooth paste menthality". It depends a lot on the environment, climate and hence the gut flora composition of each individual and the digestion issues.

    During the past year of being part of the low-carb, paleo/primal community. I have observed for some people eating plants even in small quantities cause bloating , gut discomfort and eliminating them and a carnivoros diet has almost saved their lives , are much healthier . On the other hand some of the fittest members eat huge amont of animal food + huge amont of plant food.

    As a mediterranean I am very used to eat plant food , and had concerns on eating VLC food due to acid/alkaline balance so did a bone densitometry through my traumatologist, to repeat it after 2 years feb 2010, and comparing the results ; there is a 10% bone density loss! Ofcourse in these 2 years of VLC I did a lot of mistakes with too much processed meat and LC junk foods at the beginning, and was an evolution towards the grass fed meat and realfood. And also the fact that a part from walking , I am quite sedentary too!

    For me never felt right to leave out the plant food so drasticaly when I was doing VLC,I can enjoy a nice juicy beef steak , but with a side of salad or some steamed veg , the joy is even more and feels much better on my guts and the BG levels.

    So is the matter of each personal biochemistry process and many factors influencing it.

    It is a question of indivitual trial and error and listening to ones body needs. Then decide to be carnivoros, VLC, plant based, animal based , paleo or primal.

  • David

    4/20/2010 12:14:26 AM |

    Dr. Davis,

    I'd definitely be interested if you personally see results with any of your patients taken delta gold. I've been taking it a year now. I'm just trusting the small clinical trials, and hope they are legit.

  • Dr. William Davis

    4/20/2010 12:50:56 AM |

    Maasai are plant-eaters as well as meat-eaters.

    Comment from Ethnobotany of the Loita Maasai   about the great "meat-eating Maasai" tribal culture:


    "Animals are kept both for economic reasons
    and as a source of food. Milk from cows, especially
    fermented, is the main traditional food of the
    Maasai. Herbal soup is an important part of the
    diet for most people, men and women alike, but
    especially for the warrior age group. It is taken as
    a health food by ordinary people and as a drug by
    warriors. Meat is usually eaten during ceremonies.
    Wild food, especially fruits, tubers, resins and
    roots, are still important, particularly to women
    and those taking care of animals in the field."

    Full-text here:http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001266/126660e.pdf

  • Dr. William Davis

    4/20/2010 12:52:24 AM |

    David--

    As we do not use tocotrienols in the program, we have no formal experience with it.

    However, having had an extended conversation with Dr. Barry Tan, I have to say it is worth looking at again, though my in-depth interest dates back nearly 20 years.

  • Chris Kresser

    4/20/2010 12:52:24 AM |

    The Masai may eat some animal foods, but they certainly aren't a "side dish" as you recommend.

  • Dr. William Davis

    4/20/2010 1:18:04 AM |

    Inuits eat lots of meats, but also eat plants.

    Dr. Weston Price on observing the eating habits of the Inuits during the first 20 years of the 20th century (before substantial Western influence on the Inuit diet took root):

    "The food of these Eskimos in their native state includes caribou, ground nuts which are gathered by mice and stored in caches, kelp which is gathered in season and stored for winter use, berries including cranberries which are preserved by freezing, blossoms of flowers preserved in seal oil, sorrel grass preserved in seal oil, and quantities of frozen fish. Another important food factor consists of the organs of the large animals of the sea, including certain layers of the skin of one of the species of whale, which was found to be very high in vitamin C."

    Organ meats and the fat of cold water creatures are indeed richer in vitamin C than muscle meat that we consume. When is the last time you ate muktuk?

  • Chris Kresser

    4/20/2010 1:19:22 AM |

    Oops, that should have read "The Masai may eat some plant foods, but they certainly aren't a side dish as you suggest."

  • Adolfo David

    4/20/2010 11:46:16 AM |

    I agree with a low carb diet based on animal and vegetal products, but I diagree with a so high fiber diet. See 'Fiber Menace' book, recommended by Weston Price Institute.

  • Helen

    4/20/2010 2:11:43 PM |

    Help for the nut-allergic, please.

  • Adolfo David

    4/20/2010 7:23:12 PM |

    Dr David and all, you have a interesting tocotrienols report in Nutraceutical Magazine september 2009, its about newest tocotrienol supplement formulation, in page 42

    http://www.nutraceuticalmag.com/NBT/pdf/2009/NBT_SO09.pdf

  • Maris

    4/21/2010 2:37:41 PM |

    You're right. so all in all, the key is to balance everything and place more emphasis in eating plant-based foods than animal products, specifically meat. I've tried a low-carb diet upon my doctor's reccomendation due to my hypertension, and although it's not easy at first(coz I'm used to eating lots of carbs), I got used to it after some time.

  • PJ

    4/22/2010 1:48:05 AM |

    You lost me on this one.

  • Marius

    4/22/2010 5:22:24 AM |

    This is getting ridiculous. Carbohydrates are evil and animal products are bad. Yum, I'm looking forward to my dinner of olive oil, carrots and five different types of nuts! The Auschwitz diet, it really works!

    We only became human because our ancestors included increasing amounts of meat and animal fat in their diet, which provided enough energy/EFAs for our brains to grow, which made us more intelligent and able to get even more meat and fat. Had they kept to their plant-based diet, we would still be swinging from the trees.

    That, and cooked tubers. As in, potatoes.

    What you are promoting on this site is anorexia and food phobias.I'm sure eating so little that your heart atrophies is super "heart healthy".

    The article seems to be supported by vegan myths and our modern cultural bias/squeamishness against meat more than scientifically established facts.

  • Cotton Yarn Manufacturer

    4/22/2010 7:55:47 AM |

    Other skins such as those from large animals such as horse and smaller animals such as ... Plant-based parchment: Parchment paper. thanks for sharing the information.

  • Mike Turco

    4/22/2010 4:13:11 PM |

    That is a really interesting line of thought, and plus, I'm an on-and-off reader of your blog and really respect your opinions. I've been on the meat and cheese mostly diet, along with the occasional veggies, nuts, berries, melons, etc. Its a good way to eat, for me, but hey its a boring diet and I've been wanting some change and variety for quite some time. I'm going to take a crack at switching things up for a while, in the way that you are suggesting, and see how that goes for me. I certainly don't see any harm in giving it a shot. I'll comment back at some time in the future, probably on another post, and let you know how it goes. Thanks again for your insight. -- Mike

  • Apolloswabbie

    4/23/2010 2:10:26 AM |

    Jezwyn - were you going to just borrow my thunder or steal it?

    Kidding - I could not have made those points as well or concisely as you did, thanks.

  • Apolloswabbie

    4/23/2010 2:15:42 AM |

    "Thinking we all would react the same to an inuit diet, having inuits evolved for such a long time to survive where they live eating where they eat, makes no sense."
    No, it doesn't, but when it actually happened, euros who lived/ate with the inuit reported more than once that they thrived.  This was tested in a hospital setting and confirmed.  In other words, we've more EVIDENCE that the Inuit diet was not beneficial because they were some genetic mutant - it was beneficial for humans in general.  

    Congnitive dissonance?  only if you've bought the unproved conjectures so rampant in the science of diet.

  • Anonymous

    4/25/2010 2:14:00 PM |

    I think the reaction to this article was predictable. If an atheist tells a person of faith that they are wasting their time with prayer and they should just get on with making the most of this life, very few would expect a capitulation by the religious. IMHO, diet is a lifestyle, like religion, and generally ruled by a hefty dose of emotion.  Having view points out there for people to make up their own minds is terrific.  But in the end we have to decide what we believe in.

    great work Dr. D. stay the course and the debate will be healthy..pun intended.

  • Kevin

    4/25/2010 6:08:13 PM |

    Anonymous said...
    "I think the reaction to this article was predictable. If an atheist tells a person of faith that they are wasting their time with prayer and they should just get on with making the most of this life, very few would expect a capitulation by the religious. IMHO, diet is a lifestyle, like religion, and generally ruled by a hefty dose of emotion. Having view points out there for people to make up their own minds is terrific. But in the end we have to decide what we believe in."

    I agree.  Unfortunately the emotion in any hotbutton issue leads the insecure to spew vitriole which makes it harder to stay connected to the dialogue.

    I'm hoping the doctor continues to espouse his viewpoint here.

  • DrStrange

    4/25/2010 8:24:23 PM |

    Just read thru all the posts and what a hilarious set of temper tantrums!  Since we live in modern times, we can easily supplement K2, D3, and omega 3 (I certainly do on plant based diet)(for omega 3 I take about 200 mg/day of plant source DHA drops).

    There are studies and there are studies and you have to actually read the details to see what they are measuring.  A little more fruits and veg than the crappy SAD, as in the study cited above, will have relatively little benefit though even at the amounts in the study there was a slight benefit.  Many Masai in fact were found to have plenty arteriosclerosis, just huge arteries from much more exercise than you or I will ever do.  Inuit skeletons do show severe osteoporosis and they tended to died young from hard living in a very tough and unforgiving environment.  Look around the rest of the world, aside from Inuit and Masai, all traditional cultures ate very small amounts of animal based foods and mostly plants.

    Personally, my blood sugars postprandial were running 175-200 for several hours. Switched to no animal fat and reduced fat and calories and they would still spike but stay up much shorter duration.  Currently I eat 100% plants, getting about 35% fat from unsalted, raw nuts and around 150-160 grams of carbs per day. Carbs and protein also coming from about 1 1/2 cups beans per day. Protein is about 15% of calories. My postprandial sugars stay under 110 and usually are under 100, even with a little fruit tossed in for dessert...  Everybody has to find their own way but you guys really need to read research more carefully.

  • DrStrange

    4/25/2010 10:29:42 PM |

    I had a doc tell me once he seldom if ever talked diet w/ patients as getting them to change was likely harder than getting them to change their religion!  I think that was cop-out as it is so important but a lot of truth there as well.

  • jandro

    4/27/2010 6:33:52 AM |

    Stefansson's meat only trial is not conclusive, X-rays were use to measure osteoporosis which only detects it once there has been a 30% reduction in bone mass. Obviously, you are not going to lose 30% of bone mass in a year. You can read more about it here: http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2010/03/paleo-diet-ph-does-it-matter-part-vii.html

    There are also frozen eskimo skeletons that show severe osteoporosis in women that are only 30 years of age.

    Eskimos were pushed to a really extreme environment in which we certainly did not evolve. Why anyone would use their diet as a model diet blows my mind.

    We evolved in East Africa with dry and wet seasons. Warm all year round. It allowed for plenty of vegetation to grow, and for plenty of animals to thrive.  Tribes living in that region have a diet high in both animal and plant products. It's low in fructose and most of the carbs are coming from tubers (yielding a net alkaline effect). Some nuts may be used as well but not to the extent it was used in this post.

  • Martin Levac

    4/27/2010 6:52:18 PM |

    Is there an association between meat consumption and calcium excretion?

    Is there an association between calcium excretion and bone loss?

    Is there an association between meat consumption and bone loss?

  • DrStrange

    4/28/2010 1:05:51 AM |

    Depending on what studies you read, there is an association w/ higher protein intake and bone loss, particularly for animal protein though I think plant too.  Amino acids are acids and need buffering.  If necessary, body will take alkaline minerals from bone to do the job.

  • Contemplationist

    4/28/2010 6:10:17 AM |

    Indeed what about the evolutionary argument that our ancestors survived mostly on animal meat (and its fat) ?

  • Bonnie

    5/2/2010 8:49:36 PM |

    You confuse me.

    Yesterday I ate 4 eggs, a pint of cream, 4 tablespoons of butter, 3 pieces of bacon (with all the rendered fat), about 6 oz of fatty beef steak, and a tin of sardines. I also ate 1 serving of sprouted pumpkin seeds, 1 cup of orange juice, 1 serving of brussels sprouts and 2 servings of spinach. From this I got 97% of DRIs for vitamins and 91% of minerals (I use CRON-O-Meter) in under 2500 calories.  48 grams of carbs.

    I'm not finding it at all difficult to exceed minimums for vitamins and minerals found mostly in plant foods while still eating a low-carb animal-based diet.

  • DrStrange

    5/4/2010 12:41:14 PM |

    "Yesterday I ate 4 eggs, a pint of cream, 4 tablespoons of butter, 3 pieces of bacon (with all the rendered fat), about 6 oz of fatty beef steak, and a tin of sardines."

    Bonnie, have you no concern about GMO diary (hormone forced milk production), nitrites/added hormones/stress hormones in bacon, GMO corn and petro chem and drug residue in beef, etc? Or are all these from organic, free-range animals fed their natural diets?

  • DrStrange

    5/4/2010 12:49:18 PM |

    "Indeed what about the evolutionary argument that our ancestors survived mostly on animal meat (and its fat)?"

    Contemplationist, read this

    http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2009/09/lets-not-twist-history-to-support-our.html

    From looking at the diet of contemporary hunter gatherers, an argument could be made that the ancestral diet contained a great deal of plants, as well as insects, small birds, lizards, etc.  The meat eaten was not the bulk or even the majority source of calories and it was all very very lean.

  • Anonymous

    5/4/2010 2:50:16 PM |

    His advice makes sense for the vegans and vegetarians and low-fatters.  A huge step up for them and, most importantly, it's very 'foodie' and will appeal to them.

    The animal-based diet, on the other hand, appeals to people like me who are lazy and therefore used to eat the SAD diet.  Dinner: grilled hamburger topped with butter, sea salt and blue cheese on top of microwaved spinach.  Five ingredients.  Takes me five minutes.

    The answer to "Plant-based or animal-based?" is "YES!"  Ditch the grains and we can discuss everything else later.

  • DrStrange

    5/5/2010 1:42:01 AM |

    "The animal-based diet, on the other hand, appeals to people like me who are lazy and therefore used to eat the SAD diet. Dinner: grilled hamburger topped with butter, sea salt and blue cheese on top of microwaved spinach. Five ingredients. Takes me five minutes."

    Took me about 15 max to make mine:  Pre-cooked beans from fridge plus huge pile of chopped veg in pressure cooker.  Up to pressure and run for 60-90 seconds.  Bring pressure down fast, dump in bowl, add some nuts/seeds, and eat.

  • jpatti

    5/7/2010 6:59:53 AM |

    We evolved as neither herbivores nor carnivores, we're omnivores.

    It's always been normal for humans to eat BOTH plant and animal foods.

    I think everyone should eat at least half their food, by volume, as nonstarchy vegetables and low-sugar fruits - a wide variety.  

    That being said, meat, dairy and eggs, if raised on pasture, are darned healthy foods.

    I think raw milk, pastured eggs and pasture-raised butter are some of the healthiest foods one could possibly eat.  

    And besides being a health food in itself, butter makes getting your veggies in much more palatable, so... an artichoke dipped in butter ought to make all of us happy.  It certainly makes me happy.  ;)  

    Bacon, if from healthy animals and just smoked as opposed to being pumped full of nitrites and nitrates, is a fine food.  

    And if we all ate enough wild-caught shellfish, you'd be hard pressed to find all these iodine deficiencies you've been noticing.

    Animal foods are not a problem so much as the US system of mass-raising animal foods in an extremely unhealthy manner is a problem.  

    See http://www.eatwild.com to find good local sources of meat, dairy and eggs.  

    IMO, the "right" answer to breakfast can be the omelet, cooked in butter, stuffed to overflowing with fried peppers,  onions and mushrooms, with a bit of grated cheese over the top.  

    Eating plenty of vegetables does not preclude eating animal foods.

    And really, you'd be pretty hard pressed to do low carb as a vegan and get anything like sufficient protein and fat.  A vegetarian, yes, if you eat lots of eggs and dairy, but a vegan, no.  

    This isn't an either/or scenario, we do best eating both.

  • lightcan

    5/7/2010 2:39:10 PM |

    We could argue and fight for ever, Drstrange.
    Stress hormones? As if the animals that humans used to kill went down happy and peaceful listening to Vivaldi. Are your vegetables all organic? And they do not contain any toxins or anti-nutrients, or nitrates, they also provide you with all the vitamins and minerals you need? Good for you. Oh, no, you need to supplement. Just as well you can afford to do it.

  • DrStrange

    5/8/2010 7:20:11 PM |

    lightcan, not sure what you are going on about.  Really.  I was referring to the lifetime of tissues saturated in stress hormones of  industrial, factory raised animals which I have boycotted since the early 70's when I found out how they were being treated even then! And what does any of that have to do with supplements?  I take some because I am old and a bit paranoid but am quite sure I would be fine without (excepting B-12 and D).  As for organic, yes, probably 95% at least and since I don't buy meat which is expensive (especially free range/grass fed or wild caught which is only meat I would eat when eating it) but rather cheap organic beans instead, I can afford it.

    Not fighting or arguing really at all. I have no "beef" against someone eating meat if they feel the need.  But the research I have read really does show that a diet based on bacon and butter and blue cheese is basically a death sentence.

  • lightcan

    5/11/2010 10:42:55 AM |

    I don't think that a diet based on butter, meat, fish, eggs and some greens is unhealthy. You think the opposite. I'm sure you can find studies that you think support your stance. That's why I said that there is a lot of debate going on, even between specialists, and asking people if their meat is organic and stress hormones free doesn't help.
    Many people who care about their health (those that read these blogs, you and I included) are trying to do their best until the definitive answers come in. It's really hard for the majority of people to find quality food exactly because of those pervasive industrial food practices you talk about.
    All the best.

  • Anonymous

    10/30/2010 11:53:05 PM |

    I eat 100% plant foods and I feel the same as when I ate both plant and animal foods, except I feel much better stopping the toxic fish - way too much mercury for me. I think eating plant foods is much more convenient. I even eat soy, and don't understand why there's so much anti-soy stuff online.

  • mirckur

    2/8/2011 3:49:28 AM |

    That is very good comment you shared.Thank you so chat much that for you shared those things with us.Im wishing you chat sohbet to carry on with ur achivments.All the best .

  • Anonymous

    2/22/2011 4:44:33 PM |

    Seriously, I am sick and tired of hearing "Low carb"  you don't mean low carb, you mean low grains don't you because plants are carbs..

    Say what you mean, not what is popular

  • jpatti

    6/18/2011 10:08:09 PM |

    The biggest issue with these guidelines is NOT what they say to adults, but the fact that they're taught in school to children.  

    I was in-between the 7 food groups and the pyramid, went to school with the 4 food groups myself.  Meat, dairy, grains, fruits & veggies.

    People still think this way, have to remind hubby all the time that corn is a grain not a veggie.  Point being, we both "think" in the four food groups, and probably will our whole lives.  

    We learned this stuff with our alphabet and arithmetic.

    Anyways, the answer to the question is BOTH.  

    We are OMNIVORES.  Look at your teeth: you're not a herbivore, and you're not a carnivore.

    IMO, when you sit down to eat, half your plate should contain nonstarchy veggies.  In my opinion, NONSTARCHY vegetables is an entire food group.  If I'd designed the pyramid, that'd be at the bottom.  

    This is not a veggie-based diet though.  Cause veggies are low calorie, and diets are defined as high fat or high carb or whatever, based on the percentage of calories.  So... you can eat EITHER a high carb or high fat diet with half your plate covered with nonstarchy veggies, as it depends on what's on the other half of your plate.

    IMO, at least another quarter of your plate should be good protein - pastured beef, pork and poultry, free-range eggs, raw milk and yogurt and kefir and raw cheese, nuts and seeds, and (if you can tolerate the carbs) legumes.  I define "good" protein as ones that don't have bad fats with them - so largely saturated and monosaturated fats, with minimal PUFAs.

    The only other "rules" are... do eat broth and other sources of gelatin, do eat fermented foods, don't eat HFCS and don't eat PUFAs/trans fats.  

    The rest varies with the person - if bg issues, should stick to lower carb, etc, if not, eat french fries, whatever.

    Cause... if you eat half your food as nonstarchy veggies and a quarter as good sources of protein, and get some good broth and fermented foods in weekly, eschew HFCS and PUFAs, even if the REST of your diet consists of nothing but hot fudge sundaes you'd be coming out ahead of the VAST MAJORITY of people.  

    Course, you're BETTER off if you eat some starchy vegetables and fruit in this other 25%, but... veggies and protein sources with good fats... these contains the vast majority of the micronutrients any of us get.  

    This is a simple enough system to teach to a small child, which is what I think the guidelines should be aiming for.

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