Gretchen's postprandial diet experiment II

I previously posted Gretchen's postprandial diet experiment, in which she consumed a low-fat diet for a day, followed by a low-carbohydrate diet for a day. Grethen monitored blood glucose and triglycerides with fingerstick checks. (Blood glucose can be checked on any widely available glucose monitor; triglycerides can be monitored with the Cardiochek device.)

Let's now discuss what happened.

On the low-carb, high-fat day, there was an initial surge in triglycerides to 250 mg/dl late morning, followed by a secondary peak several hours following dinner. Because fat is mostly triglycerides, Gretchen's high-fat (sausage, bacon, butter, whole-fat yogurt) breakfast provided a large quantity of triglycerides that needed to be absorbed. This generally occurs over approximately 6 hours, varying depending on body weight, how accustomed you are to fat, activity level during the day, the kind of fat in the meal. The high content of saturated fat in Gretchen's high-fat breakfast likely caused the somewhat slower drop in triglycerides over approximately 7 1/2 hours.

As Gretchen herself had noted, triglycerides the following day were lower, a typical low-carb response. Blood sugar throughout showed only minor variation, with only small postprandial increases.

Thus, Gretchen experienced what we'd expect with a low-carb, high-fat diet: an initial high surge in triglycerides, followed by a decline in fasting levels, while blood sugar shows a normal contour.







Now, the more confusing low-fat experience:



Blood glucose makes a striking peak at 200 mg/dl after the low-fat breakfast of pasta and rice, in contrast to the low-carb breakfast. Triglycerides behaved very differently from the low-carb experiment: While there was no initial postprandial surge, there was a late surge developing 6-24 hours later. The late surge continued into the next day, with fasting levels the following morning (210 mg/dl) exceeding the starting triglyceride level (60 mg/dl).

The one potentially confusing aspect of all this is Gretchen's late rise in triglycerides on the low-fat diet. This phenomenon is due to something called de novo lipogenesis, or the liver's conversion of carbohydrates to triglycerides that occurs when an excessive carbohydrate load comes through diet. Because the human body cannot store anything beyond a minor quantity of carbohydrates (as glucose and glycogen), carbohydrates are converted to fats.

Another factor causing the late triglyceride increase is insulin resistance, given the high blood sugar response. When insulin resistance is present, the activity of the enzyme, lipoprotein lipase, is reduced. Less lipoprotein lipase activity allows slower VLDL degradation, allowing VLDL (and thereby triglycerides contained in VLDL) to "stack up" in the blood. Thus, the higher triglycerides late after eating and into the next morning.

One issue to be aware of: Acute responses can differ from chronic responses. In other words, had Gretchen had the luxury (and time and money) to conduct the experiment over, say, 4 weeks, rather than a single day, there would be somewhat different responses. The best data on this come from Dr. Jeff Volek of the University of Connecticut, in which 4 weeks of low-carbohydrate eating modify fasting and postprandial responses over time.

Several conclusions can be made from Gretchen's experience:

1) Low-carb, high-fat acutely generates extravagant postprandial triglyceride responses.
2) Low-fat causes a late triglyceride surge and higher fasting triglycerides.
3) Low-fat leads to high blood sugars and, by implication, diabetes.


Both the low-carb and the low-fat responses are undesirable, both leading to increased risk for heart disease. Which is worse? I believe that low-fat is more destructive, since it leads over time to both high triglycerides and diabetes, while low-carb/high-fat only leads to postprandial triglyceride surges, at least acutely.

How to best balance the responses to reduce risk for heart disease? That's a discussion for future.


Again, my thanks to Gretchen and the substantial amount of effort that went into generating these numbers. More of Gretchens' own writing can be found on her blogs:
http://wildlyfluctuating.blogspot.com
http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/c/5068

Comments (37) -

  • Pythonic Avocado

    1/3/2010 3:53:05 PM |

    Why do you say the low-carb response  is leading to increased risk for heart disease?

  • Stan (Heretic)

    1/3/2010 5:34:56 PM |

    Re: Both the low-carb and the low-fat responses are undesirable, both leading to increased risk for heart disease.

    With due respect, I would disagree that BOTH are undesirable, but I agree that the one caused by the low fat high carb diet (only) is indeed dangerous!  

    It was never proven that high triglycerides alone cause heart disease.  The available trials such as Framingham (1)  may have shown some correlation with the total cholesterol but correlation is not causuation, especially that the statistics do not distinguish between various diets. Furthermore, Framingham's correlation is restricted to men only (not women) and only for the age group 30-55.  For older men and for women of all ages the correlation becomes insignificant or reversed.

    Given the above data, I think the most plausible interpretation leads me to a conclusion that the most likely direct cause of atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease is excessive blood glucose with hyperinsulinemia  (see the following papers, and Stout's papers(2) ).

    Hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia also happen to coincide with elevated TG and LDL but those are coincidental markers of metabolic syndrome induced by the common high carb (high sugar) diets rather than causing heart disease.  That I believe has nothing to do with dietary fat.

    Regards,
    Stan (Heretic)

    -----------
    Refs:

    1) JAMA. 2004 May 12;291(18):2243-52. Drug treatment of hyperlipidemia in women. Walsh JM, Pignone M.

    2) INSULIN-STIMULATED LIPOGENESIS  IN ARTERIAL  TISSUE  IN RELATION  TO DIABETES AND ATHEROMA,
    R.W. STOUT, Lancet Sept 28, 1968, p702.

    and

    INSULIN STIMULATION OF CHOLESTEROL
    SYNTHESIS  BY ARTERIAL TISSUE,
    R.W. STOUT, Lancet Aug 30, 1969, p467.

  • Nigel Kinbrum BSc(Hons)Eng

    1/3/2010 5:41:31 PM |

    As serum TG's with the HF meal are lower at the end of the day than at the beginning, does this suggest that successive days of HF meals produce progressively lower & lower TG's?

  • Anonymous

    1/3/2010 6:02:56 PM |

    I would love to hear about how to balance the risk between these extremes!  Wow, nice post.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/3/2010 10:11:35 PM |

    Pythonic and Stan--

    It's not that triglycerides per se are atherogenic, but the POSTPRANDIAL PARTICLES that triglycerides represent are atherogenic.

    In other words, high triglycerides signals extravagant chylomicron remnants and VLDL, both of which are atherogenic.

    In the ongoing debate over what constitutes a healthy or unhealthy diet, the entire issue of postprandial patterns has been ignored. Yet much of heart disease develops IN THE POSTPRANDIAL PERIOD.

  • shel

    1/3/2010 10:55:38 PM |

    i eat copious amounts of fat with positive effects. i'm a layman, but "postprandial" or not, i'm having a hard time accepting this, as the evidence i've read seems to contradict what you're saying regarding overall benefits.

    why did no one pick up on the "postprandial particle" issue until now?

    will this be a new controversy sweeping through the paleo/low carb blogging community now? ;)

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/4/2010 2:15:45 AM |

    Anyone desiring a full accounting of the hundreds of studies documenting this effect will need to refer to the Track Your Plaque Special Report, Postprandial Lipoproteins: The Storm After the Quiet.

    This literature is, unfortunately, relatively difficult to understand. But just because nobody else has incorporated these findings into diet advice doesn't mean it isn't important.

    Keep in mind that most dietary advice is NOT based on observation of postprandial phenomena.

  • Eric

    1/4/2010 5:53:50 AM |

    I had a stroke last month. (Very minor, I went immediately back to work.)  As a 35 year old non-smoker/non-drinker who generally ate low carb and avoided sweets before the stroke (and had been exercising regularly for 6 weeks), I'm baffled as to why my triglycerides are between 600 and 900.  I'm now on Lovaza.  Against my doctor's advice, I decide to do a paleo type diet.  We'll see how the lipid panel does at the end of this month, but so far avoiding wheat and grains has generally made me feel better.  I've lost some weight as a bonus.

    The doctor is blaming my triglycerides for the stroke, and just calling it hereditary.  It'd be nice to know just what gene I have that causes strokes!  No blood clotting disorders, no diabetes, no pancreaitis, and no hole in my heart either.

  • Alen Kcatic

    1/4/2010 10:58:09 AM |

    First let's take a brief overall look at heart disease because you need to combine two other major lifestyle habits with diet to truly make a difference in reversing or preventing heart disease.


    But here's the good news. You can prevent or reverse heart disease by following care

    Avoid tobacco
    Be more active and walk 30 minutes
    Choose healthier food, including more fiber, less saturated fat, and less salt.

  • Peter

    1/4/2010 12:38:21 PM |

    If it were as simple as low fat leads to diabetes, the Japanese who ate the traditional low fat high rice diet would have had extremely high levels of diabetes, but they hardly had any. I would be more inclined to wonder if our diabetes epidemic is due specifically to flour and sugar rather than low fat in general.

  • shel

    1/4/2010 4:27:36 PM |

    ~Dr Davis, i wonder if this finding is going to point toward advocation of "grazing", rather than two or three meals per day (in a low carb context).

  • kris

    1/4/2010 6:04:12 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
    Happy new year.
    here is the link to videos about FDA and drug giants. An eye opener. just in case you have not looked at it. total of 8 videos.
    http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/generation+rx#watch%3Dv18919526gZ4fkAAk

  • StephenB

    1/4/2010 7:16:32 PM |

    Dr. Davis, the abstract of the study you linked read: "Ten men consumed a low-carbohydrate diet rich in monounsaturated fat (MUFA) and supplemented with n-3 fatty acids for eight weeks."

    As you know, there are multiple low carbohydrate diets. This particular study did not examine a high saturated fat diet. I would love to see the result of chronic dieting featuring quality saturated fats like tallow, lard, butter, and coconut milk and avoiding hydrolyzed fats.

  • mark

    1/4/2010 7:19:28 PM |

    Dr. Davis wrote:
    "The one potentially confusing aspect of all this is Gretchen's late rise in triglycerides on the low-fat diet. This phenomenon is due to something called de novo lipogenesis, or the liver's conversion of carbohydrates to triglycerides that occurs when an excessive carbohydrate load comes through diet. Because the human body cannot store anything beyond a minor quantity of carbohydrates (as glucose and glycogen), carbohydrates are converted to fats."

    We don't see triglycerides being converted to glucose. It's a one way street.

    Would having increased carbohydrayte storage space in the body be preferable to storing triglyceride? We have an example of that in hyperglycemia. That's storage in the bloodstream. But the body works quickly to CORRECT that.

    So it's not that the body lacks glucose storage and triglyceride is the bad alternative. Not that at all. The body works hard to push glucose out of blood storage and into triglyceride in fat cells. That's a good thing.

    Postprandial high triglycerides from a high fat diet is a marker of fat intake. Postprandial low triglyceride on a high carb diet is a marker of carbohydrate metabolism. The later increase in triglyceride is the corrective process.

    It's hard to make the case that triglyceride is itself bad when it's one of the body's innate responses to the bad hyperglycemia. If triglyceride is bad, then the body is stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's win-lose, so the low fat diet is worse than the low carb one.

    Given my experience with dieting, I would favour low carb over anything balanced in the way of fat/carb. From dietary intervention trials, I'm unconvinced that high fat is worse (or much better) than a mixed blend of carb and fat from a mortality perspective. But from experience, I favour low carb for general sense of well-being.


    Stan wrote:
    "Hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia also happen to coincide with elevated TG and LDL but those are coincidental markers of metabolic syndrome induced by the common high carb (high sugar) diets rather than causing heart disease. That I believe has nothing to do with dietary fat."

    It's tough to isolate lipids as causal as opposed to effects of diet. Smoking and fructose lead to increased LDL. So in this case, high LDL is really a symptom smoking and fructose intake. The latter two likely being causal for anything related to your health. 8 egg yolks a day on a high fat diet and your LDL is a symptom of that. And some people have normal LDL on that even.

    Mark.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/4/2010 11:33:43 PM |

    Hi, Shel--

    No, absolutely not.

    Quite the opposite: Given what happens after eating, grazing is a destructive practice that likely increases risk for heart disease.

    See the previous Heart Scan Blog post: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/triglyceride-and-chylomicron-stacking.html

  • shel

    1/4/2010 11:52:20 PM |

    ~hi Dr Davis.

    i agree. and i do much better when i eat two meals within an eight hour window.

    my focus has always been on keeping blood glucose low (i'm not diabetic, but use a glucose meter for my own curiosity), so was a bit floored by the thought that i have to watch every postprandial spike!

    ...so, what's left? huge salads and skinless chicken breasts? ;)

  • vin

    1/5/2010 9:33:36 AM |

    It is pure and simple observation of two parameters after eating a low carb and low fat meal. Nothing more that that.

    After all most of us eat more than just carbs and fat: there are vitamins, enzymes, minerals, fiber and hundreds of other nutrients. I am certain that they more than compensate any damage that glucose or triglycerides can cause to your arteries.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/5/2010 4:39:02 PM |

    Sorry, Vin.

    You're kidding yourself if you belief that.

    It reminds me of the people I meet who take a list of supplements 30 items long (though lacking the most crucial like vitamin D) prior to their bypass or heart attack. That's called magical thinking.

  • Kurt

    1/5/2010 9:27:14 PM |

    Both diets seem to be extremes, whereas many of us are trying to eat a balanced diet of vegetables, lean meats, nuts, and some legumes and whole grains - call it moderate fat and moderate carbohydrate - but focusing on heart-healthy foods. I'd like to see postprandial data on that.

  • O

    1/5/2010 10:39:05 PM |

    I have been eating a primal low-carb diet for almost 2 years and feel great.  My fasting blood work is : trig = 40, HDL=88, LDL=114 (calculated), total chol=214, testosterone=606.  My heart scan score is 0.  I am physically active muscular male with 4 intense weights + some cardio workouts 2 hours each.  My bodyfat % is about 8-10% (I can see a clear 6-pack), age=43, height=5'7", weight=160 lbs.

    I have made an analysis of my daily intake in a spreadsheet.  My diet on workout days is 3000 kcal, of which 50% fat (167g, out of which 60g saturated), 20% carbs (150g), and 30% protein (200g).  Half the carbs are timed post-workout (workout shake, followed by dinner of meat + sweet potato).  On a non-workout days, I do not have a shake nor sweet potatoes, so the carbs drop to 10% (70g).

    Given the amount of fats I take every day, I am rather alarmed by the postprandial triglycerides.  My breakfast, in particular, has 57g of fat which will cause probably a substantial postprandial triglycerides.  Breaking up my food intake into many smaller meals doesn't seem to be a good thing.   We don't want increasing carbs or protein at expense of fats either.  Therefore, what is the solution here?

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/5/2010 11:21:32 PM |

    O--

    I am afraid there's no quick answer. That question is answered in an exhaustive report on the Track Your Plaque website.

    Alternatively, you could conduct your own do-it-yourself postprandial triglyceride test.

  • Anonymous

    1/6/2010 3:17:23 PM |

    This doesn't detract from any of the points you're making about postprandial triglycerides--but it looks like you're reading the chart from the wrong side here for triglycerides, from the left instead of from the right.

  • Catherine

    1/6/2010 4:16:40 PM |

    YIKES!
    I have been experimenting with a gluten-free, low carb, low sugar diet for 5 months and my LDL just shot UP from 220 to 230 and my HDL went DOWN a little from 66 to 61. (tryglicerides and CRP are excellent). This is opposite what's supposed to happen. Serum D level is good at 54.

    Can someone please tell me the name of the test to request from my doctor to tell if I have the small evil-type LDL or the big fluffy okay-type LDL?

    Thanks for your help,
    Warmly, Catherine

  • Lucy

    1/6/2010 4:33:54 PM |

    These results seem completely contradictory to the way Dr. Eades described the breakdown of saturated fat in his blog "The blood samples were taken two hours after the meal.  Dietary carbohydrate is absorbed directly into the blood and makes a pass through the liver where it stimulates the production of triglycerides, the fat you see in the blood.  Fat, especially long-chain saturated fat digests very slowly, and doesn’t reach the blood until much later than the two hour mark.  While carbs go directly into the blood, fats take a different route."

    Why was there a triglyceride spike after a high fat meal, but not a high carb one?  Were the fats Gretchen consumed not saturated?  It can't be both ways, which metabolic pathway is correct?

  • Catherine

    1/6/2010 9:08:44 PM |

    Oops, sorry i made a mistake.---My LDL went up from 120 to 130 (not 220 to 230)

  • vin

    1/7/2010 11:16:29 AM |

    Thanks for your comment Dr. Davis but for the first time you sound just like my cardiologist. He does not believe in reversal and thinks it is all down to one's genes and there is nothing one can do to change that. Well I think differently having postponed bypass surgery seven years ago. I will continue with 'magical thinking'. Its nice, you should try it sometime.

  • Anonymous

    1/7/2010 4:29:08 PM |

    To eat one extreme one day (low fat) and then eat another extreme (low carb, high fat) the next is a sure-fire way to get whacky blood/lipid results. Also, lipid levels can fluctuate more than 10% within a given day under normal circumstances. Alternating eating radically different extremes in terms of diet is anything but normal in my view.  Stress, exercise, or even one's sex can cause also shifts.  Trying to prevent every potential/alleged problem with postprandial lipids seems like a sure-fire way to increase stress which is also damaging to the heart and body.  I doubt paleo manwoman worried about the spike in his/her triglycerides from gorging on the fat from fatty meat meals.  I think one can micromanage one's self or rather labs, lipids etc to death...

    PS: Forgot to mention lab error.  Before drawing any conclusions from any lab results, have them repeated multiple times and at different labs.  My husband has to communicate with lab techs for his job and was horrified when one kept referring to "esterified" as "stir-fried"! And this was the one of the largest labs in the US...

  • Jim Purdy

    1/18/2010 4:38:41 AM |

    Doctor Davis, have you seen the new PR campaign from manufactured "food" giant Unilever to "Ban butter to save thousands of lives."

    Unilever is the company behind many fake foods, including fake butters Country Crock and  I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!

    I've posted a little about this ban-butter campaign on my blog at blogsthatmakemethink.blogspot.com

  • shoby

    1/28/2010 3:25:55 PM |

    I also have a blog about the diet we can share experiences and exchange links.
    This blog http://just-slim.blogspot.com
    thanks

  • Fran

    2/1/2010 5:51:52 AM |

    "How to best balance the responses to reduce risk for heart disease? That's a discussion for future."

    Please tackle this discussion soon.

  • ET

    2/26/2010 6:52:28 PM |

    I also keep a spreadsheet that details all the different fatty acids and such for every meal.  I've also had three lipid tests this year which were not fasting.  Two were in the afternoon, eight hours after a five-egg omelet with coconut oil, cheese and bacon; 2 hours later I had eight oz of full-fat greek strained yogurt which adds up to over 120 g of fat 6 to 8 hours before the test.  Add another 40 g of fat 2-hours pre-test and according to your theory, my triglycerides should be high.  On each occasion they were 91.  This is on a low-carb (<70g/day) diet.

    There's more to postprandial triglyceride metabolism than is covered here.  My next test will be a non-fasting NMR lipoprotein analysis.  Should be interesting how that stacks up against a fasting NMR test.

  • A. Lanine Pro

    6/21/2010 8:55:09 AM |

    Well I think differently having postponed bypass surgery seven years ago. I will continue with 'magical thinking'. Its nice, you should try it sometime.

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Loading
Don't be a dipstick

Don't be a dipstick

If I want to know how much oil is in my car's engine, I check the dipstick.

The dipstick provides a gauge of the amount of oil in my engine. If the dipstick registers "full" because there an oil mark at one inch, I understand that there's more than one inch of oil in my engine. The dipstick provides an indirect gauge of the amount of oil in my engine.

That's what cholesterol was meant to provide: A gauge, a "dipstick," for the kind of lipoproteins (lipid-carrying proteins) in the bloodstream.

Lipoproteins are a collection of particles that are larger than a single cholesterol molecule but much smaller than a red blood cell. Lipoproteins consist of many components: various proteins, phospholipids, lots of triglycerides, as well as cholesterol. In the 1960s, methods to characterize lipoproteins were not widely available, so the cholesterol in lipoproteins were used as a "dipstick" to assess low-density lipoproteins ("LDL cholesterol") and high-density lipoproteins ("HDL cholesterol"). (Actually, even "LDL cholesterol" was not measured, but was derived from "total cholesterol," the quantity of cholesterol in all lipoprotein fractions.)

Some other component of lipoproteins could have been measured instead of cholesterol, such as apoprotein B, apoprotein C, or others, all meant to act as the "dipstick" for various lipoproteins.

Relying on cholesterol to characterize lipoproteins provides a misleading picture. Imagine watching cars go by at high speed while standing on the side of the highway. You want to count how many people--not cars, but people--go by in a given amount of time. Because you cannot make out the detail of each and every car whizzing by, you count the number of cars and assume that each car carries two people. Whether it's rush hour, Sunday morning, late evening, rainy, sunny, or snowing, you make the same assumption: two people per car.

That's what cholesterol does: It is assuming that each and every lipoprotein particle (car) carries the same amount of cholesterol (people).

But that may, obviously, not be true. A bus goes by carrying 25 people. Plenty of cars may carry just the driver. People carpooling may be in cars carrying 3 or 4 people. Assuming just 2 people per car can send your estimates way off course.

That is precisely what happens when your doctor tries to use conventional cholesterol values (total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol) to gauge the lipoproteins in your bloodstream. Measuring cholesterol can also provide the false impression that cholesterol is the cause of heart disease, even though it was originally meant to simply serve as a "dipstick."

What we need to do is to characterize lipoproteins themselves. We can distinguish them by size, number, density, charge, and the type and form of proteins contained within. It provides greater insight into the composition of lipoproteins in the blood. It provides greater insight into the causes underlying coronary atherosclerotic plaque. It can also tell us what dietary changes trigger different particle patterns and how to correct them.

Until you have a full lipoprotein analysis, you can never know for certain 1) if you will have heart disease in your future, or 2) how your heart disease was caused.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of doctors are perfectly content to just count cars going by and assume two people per car, i.e., confine assessment of your heart disease risk using cholesterol . . . just as drug industry marketing has instructed them.

It's not your job to educate your doctor. If he or she refuses to provide access to lipoprotein testing to better determine your heart disease risk, then consider going out on your own. Many of our Track Your Plaque program followers have obtained lipoprotein testing on their own through Direct Labs.

Comments (32) -

  • Anonymous

    10/3/2010 3:58:23 PM |

    Nice analogy.

    Any idea where we can go for equivalent tests in the UK?

    Nina

  • Kurt

    10/3/2010 6:02:39 PM |

    Thanks for the 10% off at Swanson's (your ad)!

    I took the VAP test and my results were excellent. It was very reassuring.

  • Jonathan

    10/3/2010 10:55:51 PM |

    That dipstick showing a lot or a little oil also doesn't tell you about the sand that chewed up your cylinders.

  • Kathryn

    10/4/2010 1:09:03 AM |

    I've used Direct Labs & others to order my own tests directly.  It works very well.

    Currently i'm working with a doc who seems willing to work with me.  However the cholesterol panel he ordered recently did not include the part that actually measures LDL (as opposed to "calculate" it).  He is not opposed to running that test, but tells me he doesn't know if Medicare (my insurance) will cover it.

    What is the name of the test i would need to run that actually measures LDL?

  • skepticaldoc

    10/4/2010 1:29:11 AM |

    Great analogy!!!

  • Anonymous

    10/4/2010 3:33:01 PM |

    Very nice post, but interesting irony.  The doctor implies it is drug companies responsible for the lack of useful testing, and then someone from the UK wants to know where he/she can go for equivalent tests.  Surely not to your primary care physician!  Many Canadians will also want to know because govts are much tighter than insurance companies, since the latter must compete for business.  Lesson: govt health care monopolies spend less because they do less (e.g., testing) and do it slower.

  • Anonymous

    10/4/2010 4:15:09 PM |

    Long time reader, just wanted to post some info that comes within the industry:
    "The nmr is not an accurate test. I cannot tell you how many physicians have lost confidence in the results due to the high variance in particle number. One physician ordered 2 nmrs on the same patient by accident and the difference in LDL-p was over 800. Pathetic. Stick to apoB." Sorry that this complicates things.

  • CarbSane

    10/4/2010 9:21:17 PM |

    Unfortunately, some states (I think at this point only NY & Cali) do not allow patient initiated tests outside the "system".  

    With Obamacare, I fear more states will follow this, as gawd forbid anyone tries to get a handle on their own health markers, at their own expense and/or try to do anything (like changes in diet) to improve them.

  • Anonymous

    10/5/2010 3:14:15 AM |

    "With Obamacare, I fear more states will follow this, as gawd forbid anyone tries to get a handle on their own health markers, at their own expense and/or try to do anything (like changes in diet) to improve them."

    Please tell me what, specifically, in "Obamacare" would prohibit the sort of tests you're interested in?  I'm pretty sure you can't provide an answer.  Your claim (and fears) is not grounded in fact, but rests on the ideologically motivated obfuscations of others who have a vested interest in resisting meaningful healthcare reform.  I'm sure we all had it much better the day before "Obamacare" went into effect.

  • Anonymous

    10/5/2010 6:06:32 AM |

    Please post the components of the complete lipoprotein panel that you suggest.  Thank you

  • CarbSane

    10/5/2010 12:54:06 PM |

    Obamacare is all about government controlling the type of medical care we receive.  It is dictating the type of insurance we are required to carry, and it is all about getting our information into the "system".  

    If I'm willing to pay for any diagnostic test, why can't I do this without a note from my doctor?  You can't in NY and California.  I see this spreading to other states rather than being repealed.  Too much freedom.

  • Anonymous

    10/6/2010 9:34:11 PM |

    I too would like to avail of an NMR cholesterol test in Europe, so would appreciate any information on where it is available.

    I also read a review recently (but can't find it now) of the NMR and VAP tests, dated 2009. The author concluded that there was little consistency between them and suggested that perhaps the technologies were not yet mature. Any thoughts on that?

  • Anonymous

    10/7/2010 4:53:04 AM |

    I think this kind of test is only available in USA

  • Prostatic Adenocarcinoma

    10/7/2010 12:37:34 PM |

    I am quite interesting in this topic hope you will elaborate more on it in future posts.

  • Anonymous

    10/8/2010 5:10:07 AM |

    Hi Dr. Davis,

    Would be useful to get your thoughts if there is any truth to the claims that NMR and VAP are too imprecise to be reliable...

    Thanks,
    David

  • health

    10/8/2010 10:23:38 AM |

    If you're looking to buy best protein powder (or related protein products) but not sure what to look for, this free expert-nutrition tutorial can help.

  • grandpa

    10/8/2010 11:57:08 AM |

    I went to direct labs but not sure which ones are the ones to order. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

  • Anonymous

    10/11/2010 6:23:39 PM |

    Which test do we order at Direct Labs?

    THANKS

  • TedHutchinson

    10/11/2010 7:11:02 PM |

    Sorry I forgot to mention Direct labs also do the VAP Cholesterol Test

  • Anonymous

    10/12/2010 3:55:25 PM |

    @ Ted,

    Is it possible to have a blood sample drawn in the UK and sent to these labs for analysis?

    Keep up the good work on your own blog!

  • TedHutchinson

    10/12/2010 5:34:16 PM |

    Is it possible to have a blood sample drawn in the UK and sent to these labs for analysis?
    Sorry the answer's NO.
    Pity as I'd really like a VAP test done.

    But while I was talking to them I asked if there was any time limit on this months Vitamin D special offer $39 testing.
    They said tests ordered this month at $39 would be valid for 6 months.
    So US readers could buy/use one now 2nd week in October, buy a second next week for use in 3 months time (January) and a third before the end of October for use before the end of April before six months is up.
    That way they would have a pretty good idea of just how much D3/DAILY their individual body requires to stay above 60ng/ml through the winter.
    Altered post to make avoid potential misunderstanding

  • Anonymous

    10/12/2010 8:22:21 PM |

    @ Ted,

    Thanks for that.

    Do you know of any advanced lipoprotein available in Europe? Any advance on the standard TC/TG/HDL/LDL would be great.

    Seems a bit mad to have to go to the US to get a good cholesterol test!

  • Anonymous

    10/12/2010 8:24:07 PM |

    That should read 'any advanced lipoprotein testing...'

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/12/2010 11:00:02 PM |

    Gentlemen--

    Sorry, but I know of no way in the U.K. to obtain lipoprotein testing.

    Should you discover some means please come back and let us know.

    You might consider contacting one of the lipoprotein testing companies, such as Liposcience, Atherotech, or Berkeley HeartLab. (All have websites with contact info.)

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/14/2010 2:25:13 PM |

    In response to the several questions re: what lipoproteins to obtain.

    We start with a lipoprotein analysis (LDL, HDL, and VLDL quantification and particle size). Some forms of lipoprotein testing require that you specify lipoprotein (a), if you are interested in obtaining that measure.

    There are measures, of course, outside of lipoproteins that are also important, e.g., thyroid measures, 25-hydroxy vitamin D, blood glucose/HbA1c, etc., all relevant to heart disease prevention.

  • Anonymous

    10/15/2010 10:08:32 PM |

    I too, like Ted, would like to have an advanced lipoprotien test,as I think my LDL may be a shade high for comfort. My numbers are:

    TC:  6.7 or 259
    TG:  1.05 or 41
    HDL: 1.23 or 48
    LDL: 4.99 or 193
    TSH: 3.77
    Glucose: 5.2


    The only dietary changes I have made in the last year were to take 4 Minami MorEPA softgels most mornings and markedly reduce but not eliminate carbs from my diet.

    Dr Davis, I have contacted Liposcience and NMR. Liposcience have no facility to test outside of the USA. NMR have not replied. I will retry NMR and also contact the other company you mentioned.

    I will post any information I receive, here.

  • Anonymous

    10/15/2010 10:14:44 PM |

    Correction:
    Atherotech responded, no reply from Liposcience.

  • Anonymous

    10/15/2010 11:56:08 PM |

    Correction No 2:

    TG:  1.05 or 93

  • Anonymous

    10/16/2010 12:19:36 AM |

    http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/119/17/2396

  • Anonymous

    10/19/2010 10:26:57 PM |

    Reply from Liposcience:

    Thank you for your inquiry and interest in the NMR LipoProfile test.  currently, the NMR LipoProfile test is only available in the US and performed in our laboratory in Raleigh, NC. Early next year, a laboratory platform will be launched to allow for expanded offering of the test outside the US.

    Thank you,

    LipoScience, Inc.

    PS  The link I posted in the last entry from AHA Journals, is the paper I found on the inaccuracies of advanced lipoprotein testing. That said, I'd still do the NMR test, if I could.

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