It was the craziest thing, my elbows felt like they needed to pop but couldn't.  I was taking 20mgs of Zocor, and the first couple of months the elbows were fine, but one day I realized they hurt and wouldn't pop.  I enjoy tennis and will occasionally shoot baskets with the boys - working elbows are a requirement for both sports.  I told my doctor the problem and he said to stop taking Zocor, and after two weeks he will have me try a different statin.  Avoiding Zocor brought relief.  After a week of being statin free the elbows stopped aching.    

I havn't gone back to my doctor to receive a prescription for that new statin.  After learning more about heart disease prevention from this sight and others, my starting LDL was low to begin with right around 80, and so decided to take a different natural approach to lower my LDL and more importantly for me raise HDL.  I cleaned up my diet and began taking nutritional supplements.  It worked, today cholesterol levels are great, and I have working elbows.

When I first started on Lipitor 20mgs a few months back I suffered from 'Lipitor Leg'; that dull, annoying pain that plays hide-and-seek in and about the calf and thigh muscle.  And of course, only one leg, too.  Weird, nu? But it went away when I doubled my intake of CoEnzyme Q10 from 150mgs to 300mgs daily. (yeah, I don't like taking chances on being stingy)
I could easily blame the Lipitor I'm taking for my short-term memory issues, but I'm hesitant to pass absolute judgment as of yet, only because of the tremendous amount of reading/researching I do daily combined with the fact that I sometimes have my head up my ass, and it causes me to forget stuff.  I'll keep you posted.
And you keep posting this fantastic stuff, too!
Adam

I have experienced the muscle aches, absent mindedness and what I believe to be severe GERD. The GERD symptoms where so severe that I stopped taking Lipitor (20 MG) a month ago.

Dr Davis - have you tried Q.O.D. administration of longer acting statin? There is a cardiologist in Hartford CT (PD Thompson) who  
has found that Q.O.D.  administration of statins "significantly improves serum lipid levels" (PUB MED ID 16230873)

Peace,

Joe E O

Hi, Joe-

No, I didn't know that!

Sounds like an interesting strategy. I think it's worth a try.

After taking Lipitor 10mg for a few days I developed an occasional pain in the back of my right eye.  Since I had never had a pain like that before I stopped taking it and the pain disappeared a few days later, never to return.  Although my cardiologist said he had never heard of anything like that, I found several people on the internet who reported having varying types of vision-related reactions.  It's fairly obvious that some people do have strange reactions.  Years ago, when it was a prescription drug, I once took Claritin and thought I was going to die when my airway started to close down.  Now (don't laugh) I'll only take a new drug in the parking lot of the hospital!  Thinking you won't be able to breathe might do that for you.  Fortunately I don't really have to take any drugs   ...   yet.
        TYP member:  the164club

Add another wacky side-effect to the list!

Wacky? Well, I'm not sure how memory loss, muscle and bone pain, and debilitating diarrhea can be considered "wacky", but yea, I had them and more...how about severe depression? For the first time in my life I would cry at the least thing and had to force myself out of bed and do anything!!

I'm sorry. Wacky? That isn't a term I'd use for the side effects that I and many others experienced.

For those of us that have had severe reactions to these drugs it is very difficult to get your doc to understand and believe. My doc actually laughed at me!! Many are ignored when they complain about muscle and bone pain....then when it gets unbearable they sometimes will quit the drug. Others have what appears to be permanent peripheral neuropathy as a result of statins and their effect being ignored. Having a physician, and an apparently fairly well known one, call these side effects "wacky" minimizes what many have gone thru and makes it harder for others to convince their docs!

Two weeks after I started 10mg/day of Lipitor I developed tinnitus.  I had never noticed a ringing in my ears before and now all of a sudden it was LOUD.  After three months I saw my doctor for a cholesterol retest (it went way down) and complained of the tinnitus.  He said he hadn't heard of this side effect, but I told him the web said 2% complain of it.  He suggested I go to 5mg/day to see if it helped.  I tried this for a few months, then went totally off for a few weeks, and the tinnitus got better, but never went away.  I'm still on a 5mg dose after 9 months and I still have tinnitus.  My fear is that the damage is done and the tinnitus will never go away.

Other bloggers: you might have something about the tinnitus. I had been plagued by tinnitus a few years ago - unrelated to statins - eventually it went away. I suspect medications. However, six days ago I began 5 mg simvastatin and the tinnitus came back, same sort of noise, same annoying level or volume. Dr. Davis mentioned tinnitus and Zocor in his "wacky" side effects posting. Maybe not so wacky, huh?

I got sun sensitivity from taking Simvastatin.  Wherever my skin is exposed to the sun, it turns red and starts itching intensely and my skin looks like giant hives.  I have to wear long sleeves, gloves, turtlenecks, etc.  

Has anyone else ever had this side effect?

Veedubmom

I was on Lipitor, but as a result of teh recent study, asked to go on Simvastatin. I too have never suffered tinnitus until taking statins. I perceive it most at night. It sounds either like e pure high pitched white noise, or often like being stuck in an aviary with a million high pitched birds. I did not suffer any pains, but I clearly am more forgetful. I also feel depressed, and really don;t care about anything.. Paying bills, family, cleaning, you name it. Also, my rosacea seems to act up a lot more.

I started Zocor 2 weeks ago and have ringing in right ear. Somtimes irs loud. I also had dizzyness and feeling of confusion the 1st week. Insomnia too.

I don't know why there is no real documentation on these type of statin side effects. I'm guessing that there is too much money behind the labeled products.

To sum up:

I started taking statins a couple of years ago. A friend told me that he heard that they caused altzheimers-like symptoms. I didn't think that I exhibeted any effects like that, so I pretty much ignored it, except to raise the issue with my doctor.

During the last two years, I gradually lost interest in pretty much everything. It wasn't that I was forgetful, I just didn't much care about anything. Didn't care about my hobbies, quit my job, only paid bills when I felt like it, left a rental property vacant for 1 1/2 years and other similar issues.

I am normally a pretty active person with lots of pursuits. When I spoke to my doctor about my 'lack of interest and motivation', she suggested putting me on testosterone and later a mood enhancer. (I'm 60 and I lost my wife to breast cancer about 3 years ago, so I guess the thinking was either that I was going through male menopause or just depressed over her passing.)

Although I never had the muscle aches or liver problems that are considered the side effects of statins, gradually, I began to feel weaker (not uncommon at 60) and more lackadaisical in my approach to bills and  responsibilities. I also began suffering continual intense tinnitus and insomnia. I became crankier and more vehement in my dealings with other people and dangerously aggressive while driving.

Oddly enough, my lack of concern with paying bills led to the pharmacist telling me that Blue Shield had canceled me. Although I could easily have called the doctor for a prescription for $5 statins through KMart, I just couldn't be bothered, so I discontinued my medication.

It's been about 2 1/2 weeks since my prescription ran out. Within 4 days I began feeling better and my thinking became clearer. I no longer have tinnitus, my good mood has returned and I **actually** accept  life's small annoyances again. Finally, I feel better physically and am more motivated. (Unfortunately, now I have to clean up all the financial garbage I've accumulated in the last year or so.)

If you take statins and begin to suffer any of the symptoms that I've noted above. **Tell** your doctor to take you off for a month. If your symptoms improve, you'll know why.

Although I no longer have medical insurance, one requirement of the coverage was that my cholesterol be controllable with statins. I'd rather have a heart attack or stroke and die than to go back to being the useless walking zombie that I was.

John B. Egan
Grass Valley,CA

Just want to add that I've changed my screen name. This post was an update to my prior January 24, 2009 post as jegan.

What can i say. I feel more inventive these days.

jegan aka Urbanegorilla.

My father has been on Lipitor for close to two years now.  He's getting almost daily "light-headed" symptoms (sometimes several times a day) where he explains that he becomes disoriented.  He'll ask me what day of the week it is.  Or completely forget a conversation we would just have.  It all comes back after a few minutes; but still very scary. As one commenter said, I too have been having trouble convincing people of his symptoms.  Doctors downplay it (and they shouldn't.  No matter how small the group experiencing this).  I'm trying to convince him to get off the statins and instead adopt a strict diet (no wheat/sugar etc. and lots of fish oil). He wont listen.  Does anyone know if this side effect can worsen with continued use? Can I have him take something (CoQ10)that may help lessen symptoms?

-concerned son

In response to anonymous who's father is suffering mental issues.. My doctors had no idea that depression, memory problems, unusual spontaneous anger and lack of interest could be caused by statins. My opinion is that pharma is not interested in publishing these matters. Why would they? They make a ton of money selling the products.

If I hadn't forgotten to pay my Blue Cross bill I would never have known the difference as I was truly in a daze. Not only did I forget to pay the bill, but I couldn't develop enough interest to call either Blue Cross, or my doctor for a new prescription so I could go buy statins at KMart for $4.

Tell your dad's doctor to take him off the drugs for 2 weeks..See how he feels after that time. He won't have a heart attack in that period but he may well recover as I did.

Having said that, I still only feel partly improved but considerably so over my fugue state.

In their defense (and in general I am no defender of the drug manufacturers), most people do fine with statin drugs, though the majority do eventually require coenzyme Q10 in my experience. By the way, coenzyme Q10 can be an indispensable aid to help tolerate statin agents.

As we all know, statins reduce the problem of people suffering from high cholesterol level. Some side effects of this drug may be eliminated with the help of coenzymes.

Have you ever used a DexCom 7, like Tim Ferriss did for the 4 Hour Body book?

There is evidence that alcohol decreases the blood glucose rise, which may explain in part why moderate drinkers have lower risk of heart attacks. Have you found this to be true?

With all respects, Doctor Davis, but I am at a loss to understand your reasoning behind the suggestion of constructing a 2-hour curve with readings taken every 15 minutes. Invariably after eating, blood glucose level will rise and then fall over the two-hour period. I can control the severity of the "spike" by the type of food I consume. After eating however, I cannot control the shape of the curve without the intervention of medication or physical exercise. This is known. So what additional practical information is provided me from this exercise?
My regards, StanO

Hi! These are my readings using a 1-low carb meal-day approach during months.

day   hour mg/dL
02/15 11:17 74
02/15 12:57 83
02/15 13:53 79
exercise lifting weights
02/15 15:11 93
end of exercise
02/15 15:46 75
02/15 16:22 86
02/15 16:49 83
meal time

As you can see these are my pre-meal levels in a low carb diet, one meal a day approach eating nuts, yogurt, liver, meat, fish, especial atkins bread, butter, chicken, eggs etc..

Next day I change my normal low carb meal for a high carb meal (pasta with a bit of meat) with my morning sugar in these same levels. Lets the party begin.

02/16 13:20 finish pasta festival
02/16 13:29 114
02/16 13:42 103
02/16 13:57 125
02/16 14:06 127
02/16 14:12 137
02/16 14:23 119
02/16 14:36 126
02/16 14:48 130
02/16 15:03 123
02/16 15:15 106
02/16 15:30 112
02/16 15:46 111
02/16 16:11 107
02/16 16:22 105
02/16 16:47 114
02/16 17:21 121
02/16 17:32 120
02/16 18:07 113
02/16 18:21 125
02/16 18:50 110
02/16 19:42 114
02/16 20:21 130
02/16 21:29 112
02/16 23:37 119
time to bed. I also feel like shit.

Next day, do you think the party is over?

02/17 07:20 121 (no)
02/17 12:15  71 (finally, nearly 24 hours of high sugar levels!)
02/17 13:00  84
02/17 14:50  81
02/17 15:57  71
02/17 16:30  end meal (with a bit of wheat bread)
02/17 16:48  99
02/17 17:08 111
02/17 17:27  94
02/17 17:47  82
02/17 18:18  87
02/17 18:42  73
02/17 20:09  78
exercise (please, do not ask what type of exercise and how I can manage to check my sugar in that situation
02/17 21:31  98
02/17 22:01  97
end of exercise
02/17 23:15  88
02/17 00:38  83

Next day

02/18 09:18 79
02/18 10:36 81
02/18 11:38 85
exercise (ski, more aerobic so my sugar levels do not increase to much. Cannot use the sticks due to low temp)
02/18 18:00 80
low carb meal using  whole grain special atkins bread
02/18 18:31 85
02/18 18:47 98
02/18 19:08 90
02/18 19:30 88
02/18 19:45 93
02/18 20:20 87
02/18 20:40 80
exercise
02/18 21:12 92
02/18 21:58 94
02/18 22:26 91
end of exercise
02/18 23:39 88
02/18 01:17 88
exercise
02/18 02:20 93
end of exercise

Next day similar to my first set of data.

"I am at a loss to understand your reasoning behind the suggestion of constructing a 2-hour curve"

Varies so much per person and meal composition.  Some people will get peak even longer than two hours w/ something like pizza that has lot of heavy grease as well as the carbs.  Or if they have any gastroparesis  issues

Hi, Eric--

Sorry, but I don't know what DexCom 7 is. Can you tell me anything about it?


Hi, Kurt--

The effects of alcohol and alcoholic beverages are complex. The blood sugar effect is only a small part of the equation. Among the most consistent effects are reduced blood sugar with red wine, increased blood sugar with beer.

Hi, Anonymous--

Impressive effort!

Incredibly, just about any primary care doc would declare your values "normal," since you don't "need" medication.

You've found the secret: Carbohydrates screw up health galore.

I almost had a wheat relapse today, but what I realized is that I wanted the butter. So, I ate a small bite of organic butter.

Carbohydrates don't screw up health in most people, but they have to be managed properly. Anonymous's glucose spike occurred because he/she surprised the body with a heavier carb load than it was adapted to. It takes a week or so for the body to upregulate insulin sensitivity and glycogen storage ability. Until that upregulation occurs, high carb intake will indeed cause glucose spikes.

Here's my own anecdote. After switching to a paleo diet for a week, I then switched back to high-carb. Upon eating 200g (dry) of cooked oats, my glucose shot up to 195 mg/dL. A week later, I was able to eat the same 200g (dry) of cooked oats and glucose remained below 120 mg/dL. What happened is that my ability to process glucose downregulated when I switched to paleo, then upregulated after I switched back to high-carb. Both the down and upregulation take a few days. It is probably inadvisable to constantly switch between paleo and high-carb. If you plan to eat high-carb, then do so consistently, so that the body is always prepared for high glucose loads.

My recent VAP blood tests, taken after resuming my usual high-carb regimen, show HDL=66 mg/dL, LDL=61, VLDL=12, Trig=45, Lp(a)=15, HDL-2=23 (most protective HDL greater than Lp(a), thus counteracting the latter), and type A LDL pattern (mostly large buoyant LDL). CRP was .16mg/L, which is very low. Laboratory measurement of fasting glucose was 85 mg/dL, versus 84 for Reli-On Confirm home glucose testing device measured that same morning (the Reli-On device thus appears to be accurate). These results hardly suggest that a high-carb diet necessarily screws up health.

There is also plenty of other evidence that carbs are not unhealthy for people who are lean, get daily exercise, don't have an underlying illness, and eat mostly unrefined carbs. All sorts of primitive peoples (Kitavans, Tarahumara indians, Bantus,  traditional mediterranean people's, etc) eat high-carb diets and have very low incidence of diabetes, heart disease and other chronic illnesses due to diet (they may have chronic illnesses due to parasites).

Depression a variable: Japan 2010 journal "Anti- Aging" showed affect on blood glucose in 5 hour glucose(75 grams) tolerance test on a clinic's depressed in-patient (woman age 36). The articles authors conclude a "very low saccharide diet" is better for the brain, which runs fine on ketones.

Fasting blood sugar = 74
30 min post glucose = 97
1  hour  "    "     = 78
   (coincides with insulin peak)
2 hour post glucose = 54
   (27% below fasting blood    
    sugar)
3 hour post glucose = 99
   (insulin less than 1/2 of
    30 min. insulin & 1/3 of
     2 hour insulin)
4 hour post glucose = 75
5 hour "     "       = 80

I have a big question here.
I persoanlly have my peak at 30 minutes. So my question is:
Is it a BG of 140-160 after 30 minutes if after 60 minutes it is under 100 too bad?

@Might-o'chondri-AL: Can't understand the logic of low-carb for depressed people. High-carb boosts serotonin. The only reason I could think of prescribing low-carb for a depressed person is because they are overweight, and the excess weight is partly responsible for the depression (inability to move about and exercise due to morbid obesity, for example).

revelo, thanks for some sanity.  Reading these blog posts and most of the comments that follow is depressing.  They would have everyone believe that their inability to handle carbs is representative of normal, healthy, individuals.

Maybe they need to get healthy, and then they can actually eat whole-food sources of carbs and stop being so scared and go and live life.

Hi Revelo,
I've got nothing against carbs & am still learning (I eat carbs); your blood profile seems excellent enough to trade for.My thinking on your approach is: that you may find, like me in my 20/30/40s + years, care free
carbohydrates are fine and by
the time hit 60 there's the unforseen to adjust to. The famous quote is: "Old age ain't for sissys."
  
So, back to Japan ....
Psychiatric clinic tested 2,000;
detailed one to show how variable blood sugar/insulin expression is in depression. They claim to have got her off meds and adressed low neuro-transmitters of depression; which clinically they say (depression) is common in metabolic syndrome.

Their flow chart for seratonin is dietary amino acid L-tryptophan as substrate with folic acid, iron, niacin and enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase; yields, 5-HTP with vitamin B6 and enzyme 5-HTP decarboxylase; yields seratonin (which in it's own right is the substrate for
magnesium and SAMe to make into melatonin). I'll skip their GABA and dopamine flow charts.

This was a geriatric symposium paper, so focus was on brain down the line. Their pitch was for preventing cognitive decline;
and that ketones protect the brain from Alzheimers and Parkinsons - just as ketones diets do help in
epilesy and other mental disorders.

They specify that in the brain beta-hydroxy-butyrate (ketone) ups utilization of circulating oxygen more, decreases CO2 in tissues from glucose "burning", and ketones make ATP more efficiently too. As for the mitochondria, they continue to get their essential glucose molecules from gluco-neogenesis.

My impression is they're showing that in geriatrics the potential
accumulation of what Doc's blog
warned about, namely  A.G.E.s
(advanced glycation endproducts)is a risk factor for Alzheimers, etc. The authors conclusion was the central nervous system used ketones just fine;and carbohydrates were not required for old people to have good levels of circulating blood sugar.





sowed data for 1 depressed lady

Dr Davis: Two comments were made asking for your reasoning behind the suggestion for construction of a 2 hr curve. To me the comments are politely made. They are appropriate in my opinion and they deserve a response. It is obvious that you chose deliberately to ignore them.

Your commentary is followed and I expect influences countless readers; some possibly obsessively, ie healthy individual who performed more the 75 glucose checks over a few days time.

With your efforts to maintain this blog come added responsibilities to its readers which you currently are ignoring.

Shame on you.

Anonymous: Your response to this blog is somewhat emotional and critical. Perhaps you could be open to the idea that some people can consume a high, unrefined carbo diet and be healthy; others will suffer adverse effects on a high carbo diet and need a more protein based or mixed diet. For those individuals that are carbo sensitive, there is good dietary advise on the blog. I do not currently test my blood sugar. I do not want to become myopic about health; however,I don't judge others on this blog who want to pursue this strategy even if they are not insulin resistant, diabetic or pre-diabetic. Moreover, I may have to resort to using a monitor in the future. The blood sugar data from another "anonymous" is very interesting and certainly provides real data for determining his or her dietary choices. Please keep an open mind and avoid insulting comments like "shame on you" which add nothing to the dicussion and are meant to insult not to educate or enlighten others.

DexCom 7 is a "continuous" bg monitor for home use. http://www.dexcom.com/products

I have been eating Dr Fuhrman's diet and lately, typical meal contains 3-4 cups chopped leafy greens, 2/3 cups cooked beans, about 2/3 oz raw seeds/nuts, 200 grams starchy root veg, one piece of fruit (most often an apple).  Peak postprandial sugars for me come very close to one hour after end of meal and are in low 120's to high hundred teens, back to fasting by 90-120 minutes Usually 90 minutes).

why do you think that post meal levels of 120 or 140 are "normal"? Simply because are the levels that people get when eat a lot of carbs in a meal.

You body do not like this levels, that is why it try to put them down using insulin. Why is your body doing that if they are "normal levels"?

If you check my levels in the 4 reply you could find that when you do not eat for longs periods of time your body try keep your sugar between 70 and 90. If you are relaxed the level could be in the 70 zone and if you do some exercise it will go to 90 zone. Why your body do no increase it to "normal levels" of 120-140? Probably because this levels are not "normal".

So you have a high carb meal. Your body react to it trying to keep your sugar down, why?. Yes... your body is stupid and doesn't have a degree in nutrition so cannot understand the science behind this "normal levels".

When you body finally got the 85 level your dietitian says that you need to have another high carb meal. So your levels return to 120-140, and you ignorant body starts to reduce this "normal level" to 70-85. When you got that level is time to have another high carb meal, and your ignorant body returns to do the same trick.

Years of doing that and your body cannot maintain the true normal levels your doctor says that you need to do some exercise to well... reduce sugar levels! and of course still doing 5-6 small high carb meals a day.

So now you need to run the New York City Marathon to get rid of all that carbs in all that meals your are eating during the day.

Of course you need increase the carbs in these meals to have energy to do all that exercises. In one of those healthy marathons you also take a high carb drink to... well... you know.

It doesn't work, you end eating more than before because your body needs more energy to run all that healthy marathons and you are all the day hungry.

Later your unscientific and stupid  pancreas collapse and your doctor says that you need to maintain your 34646464 high carbs meals a day, but take some insulin to help your body to reduce all the sugars YOU ARE EATING EVERY 3 HOURS.

Probably our pancreas simply commit suicide because is not able to understand our rock solid science.

Can someone explain to a non-scientist what "up-regulate" and "down-regulate" mean?  Peter

A couple of people have asked why construct your own glucose curve so I thought I'd throw out my thoughts on it.  Every person's glucose will peak at different points either due to slower stomach emptying or a slower absorbed carb or whatever. I have read that many people will peak at 75 minutes.  So if you are trying to get a real idea as to how your body reacts to glucose/insulin then you need to test frequently to find YOUR personal peak.  Then you will know when to test when you try new foods.  Is that others understanding too?
Char

This blog post is so full of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.  People asking questions due to being scared by Dr. Davis' suggestion of "constructing your glucose curve", so they ask him questions in the comments, like what their "glucose curve" should look like.  People thinking now they better be jabbing themselves 15 times after a meal.  Thinking about a meal for hours after a meal.  Guilt for eating that meal.

So Dr. Davis' response?  IGNORE THEM and put up a new blog post with MORE scare-mongering:


Now you should fear the banana!
http://www.heartscanblog.org/2011/02/american-heart-association-diet-makes.html

"Would you like a banana?"


What a joke.  Show us a single person who got fat off of bananas OR potatoes, or any whole food carbs.

Hi Peter,
Up-regulate is an action on a gene that makes it do more of what it's capable of doing. And down-regulate is when a gene is being acted on in a way that it will do less of what it's capable of doing.

A gene can be overactive or underactive. Depending on the dynamic, of how a specific gene ideally should be doing, regulation up or down is desired.

Here is giving nice tips. Thanks for its. I the way you explain us.

Hey there Dr Davis,

Created my own glucose curve as part of my own research and actually got a bit of a scare!

I was doing a high carb meal to try and demonstrate an early carb spike then drop.

While I didn't get the response I was looking for I got something a bit scarier. A fasting glucose indicitive of pre-diabetes reading instead. I am amazed how one bad meal was able to send my sugar awol over night.

Back onto low carbs for me.

Thanks for helping open my eyes to my potential diabetes.

Dr George