What's the best lipoprotein test?

This is a frequent question from Track Your Plaque Members and others interested in improving their heart disease prevention program beyond that of simple-minded cholesterol testing.

I obtain lipoprotein testing every day on patients. I can tell you with the confidence of having done thousands of these tests that plain, old-fashioned cholesterol testing is like relying on riding a scooter to work compared to an 8-cylinder modern automobile. The scooter might get you there, but any rain, snow, or long distance to travel and you can just forget it.

All too often, lipoprotein testing uncovers abnormalities that standard cholesterol testing simply fails to uncover.

So, among the various lipoprotein tests available, which is best?


There are three commercial tests available today:

1) Gel electropheresis (GGE)--often known by its "brand" name as the Berkeley lipoprotein profile, after Berkeley HeartLabs. GGE uses a gel with an electric field applied to cause lipoproteins to migrate, based on particle size and charge.

2) Vertical auto-profile (VAP)--a form of centrifugation, or high-speed spinning of blood plasma to separate lipoprotein particles.

3) Nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR)--the idea of putting plasma in an NMR (also known as MRI) device to characterize blood proteins.

All three tests do an excellent job. All are competitively priced. All have validating data--lots of it--to justify their broad use (though health insurers, in their vast wisdom, would still have you believe that the tests are "experimental").

But is one better?

Having done many of all three (though least of VAP), I am partial to Liposcience's NMR. (By the way, I receive no fees from Liposcience to use their test, nor to promote it in any way.)

I believe NMR is superior in a few ways:

1) I believe that the LDL particle number is the best way to truly quantify LDL, better than apoprotein B and "direct" LDL.

2) It provides what I believe to be more accurate small LDL measures.

3) It provides intermediate-density lipoprotein (IDL), a post-prandial, or after-eating, measure not available on the other two.

Perhaps I'm biased because I use the NMR most frequently. But I've used it because I felt it yielded superior, more clinically believable, data.

In truth, all three laboratories do an excellent job and you'd be served fine by obtaining any of the three. But my heart goes to NMR.

Vitamin K2, aspirin, fish oil and blood thinning

An interesting question came up from one of our Track Your Plaque Members on the Forum.

"I am now taking 9 mg of vitamin K1 and 1000 mcg of K2.

Does taking this supplement with this much K1 have a counteracting effect on the thinning/anticlotting properties of aspirin and fish oil that I also take?"


Great question (along with lots of other greater discussions we have on the Forum.)

The answer: Vitamin K should have no effect on the platelet-blocking effects of aspirin or fish oil. The majority of blood clot inhibiting effects of aspirin and fish oil arise from their ability to keep blood platelets from "clumping" (just like the TV commercials for Plavix).

Vitamin K, on the other hand, participates in the liver production of blood clotting factors (like II, VII, IX, and X, among others for you curious ones).

Thus, vitamin K-dependent clotting factors and platelet-blocking are two separate pathways to forming blood clots. Some of us refer to the difference as "red clots" from the vitamin K pathway and "white clots" from the platelet pathway, since they really do have this different physical appearance.

The vitamin K2 conversation, like that about vitamin D, is fascinating for its potential to provide the missing link between the tightly-tied fortunes of bone health and atherosclerosis. Why is someone with a high CT heart scan score far more likely to have osteoporosis? Vitamin D and K2 deficiency may provide the missing link for many people.

"Drug no cure for gluttony"

That's the headline I'd like to see associated with rosiglitazone, brand name Avandia.

The recent negative press, whether deserved or not, surrounding the prescription drug rosiglitazone for pre-diabetes and diabetes highlights the fact that drugs never--never--substitute for what we can achieve with lifestyle changes.

Typically, rosiglitazone reduces blood sugar a few milligrams, reduces C-reactive protein, and very modestly reduces triglycerides and its associated evil lipoprotein friends. It also causes an average weight gain of 8 lb in the first year of use.

What will weight loss achieve, especially if accomplished through dramatic reduction or elimination of processed carbohydrates and wheat products, along with fish oil supplementation, vitamin D normalization, and exercise? Extraordinary benefits, far superior to what is achievable with this drug. In fact, while rosiglitazone is a Band-Aid for this process, the lifestyle changes can represent a cure in many or most instances.

It should come as no surprise that a drug that does nothing more than increase sensitivity to insulin cannot erase the devastating effects of an unhealthy life. Take rosiglitazone but neglect exercise, don't bother with vitamin D, indulge in pretzels and breakfast cereals, gain more weight . . . It serves the drug company's agenda better than it serves health.

Rosiglitazone not so rosy?

Dr. Steve Nissen of the Cleveland Clinic published a study that suggests that the pre-diabetes and diabetes drug, rosiglitazone, may increase likelihood of heart attack by 43%.

I say "suggests" because the analysis was something called a "meta-analysis", a re-examination of data obtained by pooling unrelated studies and reanalyzing the data. Strengths of this sort of analysis: Sometimes trends that are not evident in smaller studies finally become evident in the larger numbers of participants obtained through pooling of data. Downside: Any statistician will tell you that a meta-analysis can only suggest an association, it cannot prove it.

Nonetheless, we are talking about people's lives. As they say, if you are taking this drug, also known by the brand name, Avandia, then talk to your doctor. I think that this is sound advice, as there are a number of factors to weigh in decision making. For instance, how far along the diabetic path are you? Have you had negative experiences with other agents?

It will, unfortunately, be months to years before confirmatory evidence on this question become available. In the meantime, Nissen will accuse the drug industry of pushing drugs through the FDA approval process without full safety data. GlaxoSmithKline, the manufacturer of Avandia, will counter with claims of weak data, the existing trials not confirming Nissen's findings, etc. We've seen it before.

My take on this is to step back and look at the broad picture. Do we need yet another reason to say that it's far better to maintain normal body weight, dramatically reduce reliance on processed carbohydrates and wheat, exercise, and following other insulin-sensitizing strategies, rather than rely on insulin-sensitizing drugs? (That's what rosiglitazone is supposed to do.) Metabolic syndrome, also known as pre-diabetes, or diabetes is present to various degrees in two thirds of all adults I meet. Nearly all of it is self-inflicted. Nearly all of it is curable with the above lifestyle strategies if undertaken early enough in the process.

A 190 lb, 5 foot 2 inch woman, or a 220 lb, 5 foot 10 inch man, both of whom are surprised that they have pre-diabetes really need to get a grip on reality and health. To me, it's no surprise that drugs do not reverse all the nasty manifestations of lifestyle gone berserk. It should also come as no surprise that the complex, chaotic physiologic mess created by metabolic syndrome and pre-diabetes is not perfectly managed by adding one drug.

The lipid distorting effects of weight loss

Roger experienced a near-fatal heart attack 6 years ago. He survived thanks to the quick action of bystanders who initiated CPR and called 911. An emergency catheterization was performed and a stent implanted into the closed right coronary artery. But that's not why I tell Roger's story.

Since then, Roger has become comfortable with the idea that he has heart disease. His initial commitment to good nutrition and exercise has waned, as it often does in us distractable humans. So Roger gained about 30 lbs through a long winter, inactivity, eating frozen dinners, and the cookies and baked goodies his daughters made him.

As a result of the weight gain and inactivity, Roger's HDL dropped to 32 mg/dl, triglycerides rose to 211 mg/dl, blood sugar crept up into the pre-diabetic range of 116 mg/dl. Undoubtedly, small LDL was out of control beneath the surface. His tummy reflected the weight gain, flaccid and overhanging his belt.

I read Roger the riot act. I reminded him of what he had experienced and nearly didn't survive. Weight loss and a re-invigoration of his nutrition and exercise efforts was going to be crucial.

Roger listened and took it to heart. Over three months, he lost 24 lbs, a phenomenal result. However, his repeat lipid panel showed an HDL of 28 mg/dl, triglycerides 234 mg/dl, blood sugar unchanged.

"I don't get it! I lose all this weight and the number get worse?!" Roger was understandably upset after his enormous effort.

I told Roger that after a profound weight loss, lipids can go berserk for up to two months after weight has stabilized. Typically, HDL drops and triglycerides rise--the opposite of what we want. But wait another two or so months after weight has stabilized and the numbers begin to look beautiful.

Why does this crazy effect happen? I really don't know and I've never heard a satisfactory explanation for it. But it is very real and quite predictable.

The lesson: after a substantial weight loss, be patient. Check your lipid numbers too soon and you might be confused or disappointed. If you do check them, bear in mind that additional time may need to pass before you see the weight loss fully reflected.

Cholesterol reduction and wheat

In my previous post, Identical twins and the explosive influence of weight , we witnessed an excellent example of the profound influence of food choices and weight control on lipoproteins. The heavier twin among these 35-year old male twins (Steve) had an LDL particle number over two-fold higher than his more slender counterpart (Alfred).

The heavier twin, Steve, got here through numerous and longstanding dietary excesses: fast foods, saturated fats, sweets, processed foods. The conventional answer to Steve's lipid dilemma would be to modestly reduce his reliance on saturated fat, exercise, and limit snacks.

How far would that get Steve? Not very far at all. With regards to his high LDL particle number of 2256 nmol/l (representing an "effective" LDL cholesterol of around 225 mg/dl), it would be reduced a little, perhaps 10%.

Notice, however, that 72% of all Steve's LDL particles are small (1639/2256). This is the pattern that responds dramatically to a sharp reduction in processed carbohydrates, especially wheat-containing products.

If Steve were to eliminate all wheat products--all breads, breakfast cereals, pretzels, cookies, cakes, pasta, crackers--LDL particle number will drop dramatically, perhaps 50%, often more depending on the magnitude of weight loss. Small LDL will respond most obviously and will be sharply reduced, perhaps disappear. Incidentally, these changes might not be well reflected by the conventional calculated LDL cholesterol, since small LDL particles are well-concealed by standard measures.

Reducing corn products, white and brown rice, and potatoes would also add to the effect. But, in 2007, wheat products represent 90% of the problem for the majority of people. Reducing or eliminating wheat therefore yields the biggest effect by a long shot.

Steve therefore represents an excellent example of how reducing processed carbohydrates, esp. wheat-containing products, can yield an unexpected and paradoxical reduction in LDL cholesterol as evidenced by the highly accurate LDL particle number (or apoprotein B). Reducing saturated fat sources also helps, but it certainly will not yield the kind of results most people need. You've got to be smarter than the simple-minded conventional advice.

Identical twins and the explosive influence of weight

A Track Your Plaque member, Eugene, brought this fascinating story to my attention.

Eugene has two nephews, identical twins aged 35 years. Despite their similar personalities and appearances, somehow these two drifted apart in weight with Steve outweighing Alfred by 30 lbs.

Eugene explains:

These guy's are big not, but overly fat. Just big. One is about 30 lbs heaver than the other. They live 2 blocks apart, they ate the same (together) meal the night before the blood work. Their mother is a type 2 diabetic with a heart condition. Steve does not eat as well as his twin, junk food and a lot of processed starches.


Their results:



LDL-Particle number
Alfred 900
Steve 2256

Small LDL-P
Alfred 400
Steve 1639

HDL-C
Alfred 44
Steve 36

Triglycerides
Alfred 85
Steve 355

Metabolic Syn.
Alfred no
Steve yes


Glucose

Fasting
Alfred 93
Steve 112

1hour
Alfred 134
Steve 206

2 hour
Alfred 105
Steve 172


Identical twins begin with the very same genetic background. As these two graphically illustrate, weight can have a profound influence in the genetically susceptible.

LDL particle number alone is 250% greater in the heavier twin. The dreaded small LDL particle is over 400% worse! Look also at the dramatic differences in blood sugar.

If you ever had any doubts about the importance of excess weight and nutrition, just remind yourself of this fascinating illustration.

Thanks, Eugene.

Low-fat diets raise triglycerides

Martin, a hospital employee, knowing that I fuss a great deal with lipids and lipoproteins, showed me his lipid panel because the result triggered a "panic value" for triglycerides at 267 mg/dl. He asked if he should go on a serious low-fat diet.

I asked Martin what he had for breakfast: a whole wheat bagel with no-added-sugar jam. Lunch: a turkey sub on whole grain bread, no mayonnaise. Snacks: baked chips, pretzels ("a low-fat snack!").

In years past, if person developed high triglycerides levels, a very low-fat diet was prescribed. Someone would come to the hospital, for instance, with abdominal pain from pancreatitis (an inflamed pancreas)due to the damaging effects of triglyceride levels >1000 mg/dl. For this reason, many people still believe that all instances of elevated triglycerides should be treated with a reduction in fat intake.

This is absolutely wrong. While a fat restriction may reduce triglycerides in genetically-programmed responses when triglycerides are >1000 mg/dl, lesser levels of high triglycerides of, say 250 or 300 mg/dl, do not respond to dietary fat restrictions as a sole strategy.

Yes, a reduction in unhealthy fats (saturated, trans, polyunsaturated) helps. But a reduction in fats of all sorts is not necessary and can, in fact, worsen the problem. We learned this lesson years ago with the Ornish diet and similar ultra low-fat approaches. When you reduce fat intake significantly to <10% of calories, triglycerides go way up. In those days, it wasn't uncommon to see triglycerides skyrocket past 200 or 300 mg/dl on these diets.

Why are triglycerides important? Triglycerides are an ingredient in creating the lipoproteins VLDL, IDL, small LDL. Elevated triglycerides trigger a drop in HDL, a shift towards small, ineffective HDL, and contribute to heightened inflammation. Higher triglycerides also tend to go hand in hand with lipoproteins that persist for extended periods (12-24 hours or longer) in the blood after a meal.

Triglycerides respond very nicely to a dramatic reduction in processed carbohydrates, especially wheat and corn. Of course, wheat is the bulk of the problem, since it has grown to occupy an enormous role in many people's diet, not uncommonly eaten 3,4, or 5 times per day in various forms, as it has in Martin's diet. Eliminating all sources of high-fructose corn syrup is also helpful, since high-fructose corn syrup shoots triglycerides way up. (Recall that high-fructose corn syrup is everywhere: ketchup, beer, low-fat or non-fat salad dressings, breads, fruit drinks, sports drinks, breakfast cereals, etc.)

Curiously, it is a fat that also powerfully reduces triglycerides in the form of fish oil. In the Track Your Plaque program, fish oil, taken at truly effective doses of 4000 mg per day or more (to provide at least 1200 mg EPA+DHA), is our number one choice after reduction of processed carbohydrates for reduction of high triglycerides.

The dreaded niacin "flush"

As most anybody who takes niacin knows, it can cause a hot flushed feeling over the chest and face that is generally harmless, though quite annoying.

Many doctors are frightened by this response and will warn patients off from niacin. Some people who take niacin are so annoyed that they find it intolerable.

However, a very simple maneuver can relieve the hot flush in over 90% of instances: Drink water. Let me explain.

I usually instruct patients to take niacin at dinnertime. That way, food slows absorption modestly. I also ask them to drink water with dinner. If the flush occurs after dinner (usually 30-60 minutes later), then drinking two 8-12 oz glasses of water immediately breaks the flush within 3 minutes in the great majority of people. It's quite dramatic.

Doing this around dinner (lunch works just as well) allows sufficient time to clear the excess water from your body before bedtime and spare you the aggravation of disrupted sleep to urinate. Drinking plenty of water works most of the time. Only an occasional person will need to take a 325 mg uncoated aspirin to more fully break the flush. I generally suggest that patients keep the uncoated aspirin in reserve if the water doesn't provide relief within a few minutes.

Thankfully, the intensity of the niacin flush lessens, often disappears, with chronic use.

Why do some people develop the flush and other don't? It is believed that some people metabolize niacin more rapidly to a compound called nicotinuric acid, a niacin metabolite that causes dilation (relaxation) of skin capillaries--thus the flush. The rapidity of converting niacin to nicotinuric acid is determined genetically.

An occasional person really struggles with niacin to the point of intolerance. However, on the positive side, these people may also be "hyper-responders" to niacin, i.e., they show exagerated benefits in raising HDL, reducing small LDL, etc., from small doses such as 250 mg per day.

If you experience the hot flush of niacin, think water to put out the fire.

A cure for pessimism?

Followers of the Track Your Plaque program know that we place great value on having an optimistic outlook. Not only are you more likely to be happy and successful in life, you are also far more likely to drop your CT heart scan score. Virtually everyone who has succeeded in dropping their heart scan score dramatically has been an optimist, including our most recent record holder who dropped his score an astounding 51%.

But what if you are a pessimist, someone who gripes and complains about everything, sees the bad in other people, blames others for anything and everything that goes wrong--yet you still desire to drop your heart scan score? Are you a lost cause? Should you just give up?

I don't think so. I will admit that, of all the hurdles we encounter in trying to purposefully stop or reduce heart scan scores, overcoming a pessimistic attitude is probably the toughest. Tougher than being overweight, maybe tougher than even Lp(a).

Perhaps there's a solution in two years of psychotherapy sessions with a counselor, or exploring unresolved childhood conflicts with a psychologist, or an antidepressant drug. Pessimism is, after all, a deeply-ingrained pattern of behavior, something that can't be changed just by suggesting it or simple self-realization.

The closest thing I know of to a quick and relatively easy solution for converting a pessimist to an optimist is very simple:

Do good things for other people.

Something peculiar happens to the pessimist when he/she starts to help others. They are less threatened by other people (since much griping is really fear in disguise), begin to see others as vulnerable creatures who could use their help rather than sources of annoyance, and a kinship with others is acquired.

Doing good things can mean giving blood, donating money to the Sierra Club or other charity, volunteering with the Boy Scouts, tipping the hard working waitress trying to pay for college more generously, paying compliments to people around you, helping a neighbor carry the groceries when you see him struggling, showing a child how to make a paper airplane . . .

Good deeds can take a million different forms. But it must involve you personally. It can't mean delegating a helpful activity to your spouse. You must also do it frequently, not just once a year. It doesn't have to cost money, it doesn't have to involve a lot of time (though your personal bodily involvement does yield the greatest return in optimism). These are things anyone can do and help make the world around you a little better.

If taking these small steps towards an optimistic attitude are too much for you, then I would worry that you are destined to fail in dropping your heart scan score.

One hour blood sugar: Key to carbohydrate control and reversing diabetes

One hour blood sugar: Key to carbohydrate control and reversing diabetes

Diabetics are instructed to monitor blood glucose first thing in the morning and two hours after eating. This helps determine whether blood sugar is controlled with medications like metformin, Januvia, Byetta injections, or insulin.

But that's not how you use blood sugar to use to prevent or reverse diabetes. Two-hour blood sugars are also of no help in deciding whether you have halted glycation, or glucose modification of proteins the process that leads to cataracts, brittle cartilage and arthritis, oxidation of small LDL particles, atherosclerosis, kidney disease, etc.

So the key is to check one-hour after-eating (postprandial) blood sugars, a time when blood glucose peaks after consumption of carbohydrates. (It may peak somewhat sooner or later, depending on factors such as how much fluid was in the meal; protein, fat, and fiber content; presence of foods like vinegar that slow gastric emptying; the form of carbohydrate such as amylopectin A vs. amylopectin B, amylose, fructose, along with other factors. Once in a while, you might consider constructing your own postprandial glucose curve by doing fingersticks every 15 minutes to determine when your peak occurs.)

I reject the insane notion that after-eating blood sugars of less than 200 mg/dl are acceptable, the value accepted widely as the cutoff for health. Blood sugars this high occurring with any regularity ensure cataracts, arthritis, and all the other consequences of cumulative glycation. I therefore aim to keep one-hour after-eating glucoses 100 mg/dl or less. If you start in a pre-diabetic or diabetic range of, say, 120 mg/dl, then I advise people to not allow blood glucose to go any higher. A pre-meal blood glucose of 120 mg/dl would therefore be followed by an after-eating blood glucose of no higher than 120 mg/dl.

No doubt: This is strict. But people who do this:

--Lose weight from visceral fat
--Heighten insulin sensitivity
--Drop blood pressure
--Drop HbA1c and fasting glucose over time
--Reduce small LDL and other carbohydrate-sensitive measures

By the way, if you inadvertently trigger a high blood sugar like I did when I took my kids to the all-you-can-eat Indian buffet, go for a walk, bike, or burn the sugar off with a 30-minute or longer physical effort. Check your blood sugar again and it should be back in desirable range. But then learn from your lesson: Eliminate or reduce portion size of the culprit carbohydrate food.

Comments (27) -

  • Might-o'chonri-AL

    8/2/2011 6:11:40 AM |

    Glyco-sylation occurs inside a cell's endoplasmic reticulum lumen when certain  carbohydrates  (in the form of N-linked oligo-saccharides) meld with a newly folded protein that gets translated into  a glyco-protein.  There are different rates of activation and de-activation  between glyco-sylated and un-glycosylated proteins; this affects how that protein migrates as it tries to perform it's job and how  glycation can induce degenerative states.  Tissue cells with endoplasmic reticulum stress can exasperate certain disease progression because such "stress" there promotes more glycosylation.

  • Annabel

    8/2/2011 12:40:42 PM |

    I couldn't agree more with the advice to test every 15 minutes as a means of discovering your own "sugar curve." When I tried this, I found that my own peak falls pretty consistently at 75 minutes after beginning a meal. Testing at 2 hours completely overlooks my highest blood glucose levels.

    It's a particularly good technique for those folks whose A1c levels are higher than their fingersticks would predict...it's almost surely because they're doing their sticks way past their glucose peak.

    When test strips cost up to a buck apiece, it may feel hard to justify using six or eight of them on a single meal--but what you learn may save tens of thousands in medical bills!

  • Curt

    8/2/2011 1:31:12 PM |

    Another great article - thank you! I'm curious about your thoughts on controlled 1 hour blood sugars (mine are rarely over 110) but baseline levels that aren't much lower. Typically in the 95-105 range. I will get something in the 80s occasionally, but 100 is more common. I never really spike - even a high carb meal will only get me to 130s or so and that never really happens as I don't eat much sugar/starch at all.

    Another quick question: You've mentioned a couple times recently about this way of eating being particularly good for VISCERAL fat. That is exactly what I've found. Tremendous benefits and I feel great. I have leveled out for a while (months) in fat loss, however, with a good amount of subcutaneous fat still present. Is there another protocol for getting after this type of fat? I'm already no wheat, low carb, paleo.

    Thanks again for your excellent articles! Always learning something new.......

  • ShottleBop

    8/2/2011 1:38:20 PM |

    Do you have citations to support your statement that glycation occurs at BGs of 100 or more?  This is one of the more-commonly discussed issues on diabetes discussion boards--but folks are wont to ask for backup.

  • Jeff C

    8/2/2011 1:47:11 PM |

    Regarding glycation specifically...

    1. Do you agree that fructose ("frucation") causes more AGE than glucose?
    2. What to you make of Ray Peat's assertion that poly-fats are much more glycalating than glucose?

    "The so-called "advanced glycation end products," that have been blamed on glucose excess, are mostly derived from the peroxidation of the "essential fatty acids." The name, “glycation,” indicates the addition of sugar groups to proteins, such as occurs in diabetes and old age, but when tested in a controlled experiment, lipid peroxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids produces the protein damage about 23 times faster than the simple sugars do." (Fu, et al., 1996)." - Ray Peat

  • Richard

    8/2/2011 3:21:55 PM |

    Thanks for the great article!
    I've just begun tracking blood sugars closely, changed my diet to one very low in carbs and no grains, and am determined to find ways to keep at it. I've started a blog just track my progress and keep me honest: http://transformation-transformative.blogspot.com/
    I'll also try the 15 minute testing to see where my personal peak in blood sugar occurs.
    Again, many thanks!

  • steve

    8/2/2011 3:31:08 PM |

    Hi Dr. Davis:  What is the relationship between fasting BG taken at the Dr's office and A!C?  My fasting BG level is 73.5 but my A1C is 5.4.  I would have expected the A1C to more correspond to the fasting measurement; in the case of my wife it does.  Is it related more to the red blood cells lingering around longer or lipoprotein particles which increases the chance of glycation?  Recently had a larger than normal amount of carbs in a meal- rice and blueberries and BG spiked to 119, not to bad, but will experiment with carb portion to keep under 100 as BG may be a contributing factor to my CAD.  I am also a hyperabsorber of fat despite being an ApoE 3/3.

    As an aside, i have sent around a link of one of your interviews regarding Wheat Belly and many eyes have been opened as well as many looking to buy the book.  Might not be a bad idea to have a link to any of your interviews on Wheat Belly posted to this site.
    Thanks for the enlightening good work!

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/3/2011 12:23:09 AM |

    Hi, Shottle--
    This will be the topic of an upcoming discussion. The documentation of this effect is quite extensive. It is no longer a matter of "if" but "how much."

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/3/2011 12:25:11 AM |

    Hi, Jeff--
    This is one of oranges and apples comparisons.
    Fructose does indeed induce flagrant glycation. Glucose induces glycation, though less vigorously.

    However, there is a separate but very poorly named process called exogenous glycation which has less to do with glycation than with oxidation of fats.

    This will be the topic of future discussions.

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/3/2011 12:26:22 AM |

    My first thought is that, if weight loss is ongoing, there is a temporary situation of insulin resistance that generally dissipates with weight stabilization.

    It's also possible that your pancreas has inadequate baseline production of insulin. I'm hoping it's the first possibility.

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/3/2011 12:28:05 AM |

    Hi, Steve-

    You will find that, if you did frequent fingersticks around the clock, the highish A1c reflects the higher blood glucose values that occur after meals.

    Thanks for the feedback on the Wheat Belly project. I will indeed crosslink some of the more relevant discussions.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    8/3/2011 2:39:31 AM |

    Advanced glycation end products (AGE) involve some of haemoglobin's hydro-carbon Beta side chain valine residue linking up to non-polar "glucose" aldehyde compounds and certain non-"glucose" aldehydes. Various pathological kinds of AGEs can occur from distinct events; in one situation it is macrophage activity producing enzymatic myelo-peroxidase, which can activate hypochlorite favoring a serine amino acid wing to form up to make the AGE called glyco-aldehyde.

    Probably the AGE called methyl-glyoxal is the one most relevant to diabetes prevention; since Type 1 diabetics blood serum levels of methyl-glyoxal is +/- 6 times higher than normal. This AGE can be formed when the byproduct triose-phosphate (triose = subset of carbs) is generated from the glycolytic pathway called  Embden-Meyerhof; this  byproduct risks being made into methyl-glyoxal.

    Maybe the most well known AGEs are the non-enzymatic Amadori products formed via hydrolysis; one is called glyoxal coming from glucose oxidation. And the other Amadori type AGE is 3-deoxy-glucosone (3DG), which requires fructo-selysine and the fructos-amine 3 kinase cascade to shuffle together 3DG.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    8/3/2011 2:40:38 AM |

    Diabetes reveals the problem with AGEs; this is because diabetics risk incurring kidney nephro-pathy, One of the pathological results is oxidative kidney stress, which limits sodium (Na) excretion thereby fostering  hyper-tension . When AGEs like 3DG, glyoxal & methyl-glyoxal  (among others, like pentosidine ) circulate into the kidneys their carbonyl compounds  are hard to clear by the kidneys; the side effect is to engender  uric uremia problems and meanwhile levels of carbonyls build up in what is called "carbonyl stress".
    Japan research of the plant compound chamaemeloside found that in humans it lowered levels of the AGEs 3DG & pentosidne better than any other natural remedy; optimal response was reduction of down to 1/5 th of subject's starting levels.  Chamaemeloside is the active compound in chamomile (Anthemis noblis); the extraction formula was 1 Kg of chamomile flowers steeped covered in 20 Lt. water for 3 hours at 80* celcius ( a lab temperature probably not critical for home remedy preparation).

  • Peter Silverman

    8/3/2011 12:56:13 PM |

    Volek and Phinney in their new book about carbohydrate restriction think that as you increase  fat from 30% to 60% of your diet, insulin resistance increases, then it drops when you go above 60%.  It seems that among the most experienced researchers of carbohydrate restriction, there's little consensus about the optimal amount of fat or carbs.  Ron Krausse, for instance, thinks 35% to 45% is optimal.

  • steve

    8/3/2011 5:23:50 PM |

    Peter:
    When these researchers talk about carb levels are they considering vegetables to be carbs, or just fruits, grains, potatoes?

  • frank weir

    8/3/2011 6:41:32 PM |

    You must mean, "can exacerbate certain disease progression...." meaning: to increase the severity, violence, or bitterness of; aggravate

  • frank weir

    8/3/2011 6:59:22 PM |

    This is wonderful information BUT I wonder if it might be unfortunate if folks who routinely have post-prandials of 120 to 140 take your 100 level as a sign of "failure"...things are seldom so cut and dried, black and white. I don't know if I'm hitting 100 or less  after every meal, but my A1C has dropped from 7.5 to 5.8 since last November restricting carbs. And I've lost 30 pounds. I will begin to be more dogmatic about one-hour glucose checks but my rough sense is that I'm not at 100 or less a majority of the time. But I might be wrong about that. Do you see what I'm getting at? Glucose control is an ongoing process that includes lots of self education since most GP's are not keen AT ALL on restricting carbs, including mine. When I read your post, my initial feeling was, "Cripes, 100 after EVERY meal? Don't think I can do that...."

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    8/4/2011 1:05:26 AM |

    From another commentator here, in an  earlier thread of Dr. Davis' here is how to use HbA1c to determine your average blood glucose level (note: this is not a morning "fasting" level) .
    1st: multiply your HbA1c by 28.7
    2nd: subtract 46.7 from 1st amount
    3rd: take last number as your average waking hours mg/dL blood glucose over last  few months  
    ex:  HbA1c of 5.4 x 28.7 = 159.98 minus 46.7 = 108.28 mg/dL of average blood glucose level

  • Peter Silverman

    8/4/2011 2:24:31 AM |

    They don't count non-starchy vegetable as carbs.

  • ShottleBop

    8/4/2011 3:15:11 AM |

    Thanks for the heads up!

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  • Stephanie

    8/4/2011 2:13:27 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
    I have found that if I take my carb level too low (below 50g per day) that my fasting blood glucose levels actually go up rather than down.  If my carb intake is closer to 70-80, my fasting glucose is lower.

    Have you had this experience with some of your patients?  Can you shed any light onto what might be happening?

    Thanks!
    Stephanie

  • Anne

    8/4/2011 2:34:11 PM |

    Non-starchy vegetables do have carbs and I do have to count them. A half cup of broccoli can have about 6 carbs and since I limit my carbs to no more than 15g/meal, that broccoli on my plate is significant.

    I found getting a scale that reads carbs too was an important tool for me. I found I was ofter overestimating how much of a low carb veggie I could eat. If my blood sugar starts to rise, I go back to measuring and that seems to get me back on track.

    Anne

  • majkinetor

    8/14/2011 1:25:56 PM |

    I think thats normal, its commonly encountered on paleo forums/blogs. It has something to do with physiological insulin resistance, Petro @ Hyperlipid talked about. Look here:

    http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2007/10/physiological-insulin-resistance.html

  • majkinetor

    8/14/2011 1:38:24 PM |

    I wouldn't suggest that everybody blindly follow CHO < 50g / day. As always, its about the context. People usually forget that. We mostly extrapolate from results of people who already have metabolic problems.

    Anyway, I am currently perfectly healthy apart from some minor dermatology problems (eczema).
    When I have prolonged periods of reduced CHO input (around 50g / day), I eventually start having some mucus problems. Dry eyes particularly, but also joint pain. I am not 100% sure if its about low carb diet, but it looks like it. Now I target 75g < CHO < 100g per day by adding small potato and a bit more chocolate to my diet.

    I think overemphasizing carb reduction is not good thing for most people. Carbs should go down by pretty big amount for most people, but not to extreme. In anyway, its better to measure then to guess. My sugar is never above 110 after meal and fasting is always around 95.

  • John F

    8/13/2012 9:48:10 AM |

    I decided to take this advice and have been tracking my 60 mins postprandial blood glucose for the past two days to see if all the years I've been low carbing have been making any difference. Especially working my way through different foods to see how they affect me and I've ranged from 64 mg/dl to 97 mg/dl so I'm pretty hapy.

    However this evening 60 minutes after my dinner of panfried steak with a creamy cajun sauce I got a reading of just 55 mg/dl. A lot of websites say this is too low. I'm 32, healthy male, 5,9", weigh 160 lbs, not diabetic and I don't feel sick so I'm not sure what to make of this low reading. The only thing I did was finish a hard CrossFit workout about 30 mins before I had dinner... so a total of 90 minutes before the blood glucose test.

    Any advice on what this "low" reading means? I'm hoping it's normal and means I'm burning fat!

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