Lipoprotein testing

This is an update of a post I made about a year ago. However, I'm reposting it since the question comes up so often.


How can I get my lipoproteins tested?
This question came up on our recent online chat session and comes up frequently phone calls and e-mails.

If lipoprotein testing is the best way to uncover hidden causes of coronary heart disease, but your doctor is unable, unknowledgeable, or unwilling to help you, then what can you do?

There are several options:

1) Get the names of physicians who will obtain and interpret the test for you. That’s the best way. However, it is also the most difficult. Lipoprotein testing, despite over a decade of considerable scientific exploration and validation in thousands of research publications, still remains a sophisticated tool that only specialists in lipids will use. But this provides you with the best information on you’re your lipoproteins mean.
2) If you don’t have a doctor who can provide lipoprotein testing and interpretation, go to the websites for the three labs that actually perform the lipoprotein tests: www.liposcience.com (NMR); www.berkeleyheartlab.com (electropheresis or GGE); www.atherotech.com (ultracentrifugation). None of them will provide you with the names of actual physicians. They can provide you with the name of a local representative who will know (should know) which doctors in your area are well-acquainted with their technology. I prefer this route to just having a representative identify a laboratory in your area where the blood sample can be drawn, because you will still need a physician to interpret the results¾this is crucial. The test is of no use to you unless someone interprets it intelligently and understands the range of treatment possibilities available. Don’t be persuaded by your doctor if he/she agrees to have the blood drawn but has never seen the test before. This will be a waste of your time. That’s like hoping the kid next door can fix your car just because he says he fixed his Mom’s car once. Interpretation of lipoproteins takes time, education, and experience.

3) Seek out a lipidologist. Lipidologists are the new breed of physician who has sought out additional training and certification in lipid and lipoprotein disorders. Sometimes they’re listed in the yellow pages, or you can search online in your area. One drawback: Most lipidologists have been heavily brainwashed by the statin industry and tend to be heavy drug users.

4) Contact us. I frankly don’t like doing this because I feel that I can only provide limited information through this method and, frankly, it is very time consuming. I provide a written discussion of the implications and choices for treatment with the caveat to discuss them with your doctor, since I can’t provide medical advice without a formal medical relationship. We also charge $75 for the interpretation. But it’s better than nothing.

5) Make do with basic testing. Basic lipids along with a lipoprotein(a), C-reactive protein, fibrinogen, and homocysteine would provide a reasonable facsimile of lipoprotein testing. You’ll still lack small LDL and postprandial (after-eating) information, but you can still do reasonably well if you try to achieve the Track Your Plaque targets of 60-60-60. It’s sometimes a necessary compromise.

Our discussions on the Track Your Plaque Forum have impressed me with the difficulty many people encounter in getting lipoproteins drawn and interpreted. Some of our Members have been very resourceful identifying blood draw laboratories around the country, such as Lab Safe, that will at least provide the blood draw service.

I wish it was easier and we are working on some ideas to facilitate this nationwide. It will take time.

In 20 years, this will be a lot easier when doctors more commonly use lipoprotein testing. But for now, you can still obtain reasonably good results choosing one of the above alternatives.

Is it exercise or diet?

Wayne, a 61-year old retired school superintendent, had been an exercise fanatic all his adult life. If not running long distances and occasional marathons, he'd bike up to 70 miles a day. He did this year-round. In cold weather, he set his bicycle up on an indoor device and also ran on a treadmill and added weight training.

That's why it was kind of surprising that he sported a large belly. At 5 ft 8 inch and 190 lbs, that put his Body Mass Index (BMI) also high at 28.8 (desirable <25). You'd think that vigorous, almost extreme, exercise like this would guarantee a slender build.

Wayne also had lipoproteins to match: triglycerides 205 mg/dl, LDL 176 mg/dl but LDL particle number much higher at 2403 nmol/l (an effective LDL of 240 mg/dl); 75% of LDL particles were small.

I asked Wayne about his diet. "I eat healthy. Cheerios for breakfast usually. Some days I'll skip breakfast. Lunch is almost always a sandwich: tuna, turkey, something like that on whole wheat bread or a whole wheat bagel. Chips, too, but I guess that's not too healthy. Dinners vary and we eat pretty healthy. Almost never pizza or junk like that."

"Pasta?" I asked.

"Oh. sure. Two or three tiems a week. Always whole wheat. With a salad."

Wayne was well aware of the conventional advice for whole grains and, indeed, had been trying to increase his intake, particularly since his basic cholesterol numbers had been high in past. To his surprise, the more he tried at diet, the more LDL seemed to go up, as did triglycerides.

I see this situation every day: The obsession with processed carbohydrate foods, worsened by the message perpetuated by the American Heart Association, the USDA Food Pyramid, Kraft, Kelloggs, Post, etc. Eat more fiber, eat whole grains.

NY Times columnist, Jane Brody, chronicles her (embarassing) mis-adventure following the same mis-guided advice in Cutting Cholesterol, an Uphill Battle.

According to the USDA Food Pyramid, Wayne is not getting enough grains and whole grains, particularly since he is highly physically active. Consistent with the message given by the food industry: "Eat more!"

The food industry-supported Whole Grain Council advises:

Whole Grains at Every Meal
The US Dietary Guidelines recommend meeting the daily requirement by eating three "ounce-equivalents" of breads, rolls, cereals or other grain foods made with 100% whole grains. A slice of bread or a serving of breakfast cereal usually weighs about an ounce.

Want an easier way to think about it? Just look at your plate at each meal, and make sure you've included some source of whole grains. That's why our slogan is "Whole Grains at Every Meal."



By this scheme, if you are overweight, it's because you lack fiber and you're too inactive. "Get up and go!" It's not the diet, they say, it's you!

See through this for what it is: Nonsense. Wayne was overweight, packing 20 extra pounds in his abdomen from his over-dependence on processsed carbohydrates--"whole grains"--not from inactivity.

Instant heart disease reversal


What if reversal of heart disease--regression of coronary atherosclerotic plaque--were achievable instantly? Just add water and--voila!!

To my knowledge, it is not--yet. But I sometimes play with this idea in my head. I could imagine that such a program would consist of a few essential elements:

--A fast or semi-fast, or at least a very spare diet, over a period like 10 days to promote net catabolism. It is also supremely anti-inflammatory to restrict calories.

--High-dose vitamin D, e.g., 20,000 units per day of D3 to fully replenish depleted stores and achieve all the metabolism-correcting effects of D3 restoration.

--EPA + DHA at a higher than usual dose with frequent throughout-the-day dosing to encourage replacement of cellular lipid constituents with the more stable omega-3 fraction of fatty acids.

Beyond this, I'm uncertain. What role l-arginine, statins, niacin . . . conjugated linoleic acid? ApoA1 Milano infusions?

This is simply whimsical at this point. I don't know if such an approach would work. But if it did, you might imagine that it would offer an opportunity--for the properly motivated--as an alternative treatment for angina, advanced coronary disease, a means to pull someone back from the brink.

With the insights gained from our slow-but-powerful Track Your Plaque approach, perhaps we will also gain insights into how to accelerate such a process of reversal so that it is achievable in days, rather than months or years.

The small LDL epidemic

Ten years ago, small LDL was fairly common, affecting approximately 50% of the patients I'd see. For instance, an LDL particle number of 1800 nmol/l would be 40-50% small LDL in about half the people.

But in the last few years, I've witnessed an explosion in the proportion of people with small LDL, which now exceeds 80-90% of people. The people who show small LDL also show more severe patterns. 80-90% small LDL is not uncommon.

Why the surge in the small LDL pattern? Two reasons: 1) The extraordinary surge in excess weight and obesity, both of which favor formation of small LDL particles, and 2) over-reliance on processed carbohydrates, especially wheat-based convenience foods.

The constant media din that parrots such nonsense as the report on CNN Health website, Healthful Breakfast Tips to Keep You Fueled All Day, helps perpetuate this misguided advice. The dietitian they quote states:

"If you don't like what you're eating, you won't stick with it. If your choices aren't the most nutritious, small tweaks can make them more healthful. For example, if you have a sweet tooth in the morning, try a piece of nutty whole-grain bread spread with a tablespoon each of almond butter (it's slightly sweeter than peanut butter) and fruit preserves instead of eating foods that offer sweetness but little nutritional benefit, like doughnuts or muffins. If you enjoy egg dishes but don't have time to prepare your favorite before work, try microwaving an egg while toasting two slices whole wheat or rye (whole-grain) bread. Add a slice of low-fat cheese for a healthful breakfast sandwich that's ready in minutes. And don't overlook leftovers. If you feel like cold pizza (which contains antioxidant-filled tomato sauce, calcium-rich cheese, and lots of veggies), have it. It's a good breakfast that's better than no breakfast at all."

It sure sounds healthy, but it's same worn advice that has resulted in a nation drowning in obesity. The food choices advocated by this dietitian keep us fat. It also perpetuates this epidemic of small LDL particles.

If you have small LDL and its good friend, low HDL, it's time for elimination of wheat products, not some politically-correct silliness about increasing fiber by eating whole grains. Whole grains create small LDL! Or, I should say, what passes as whole grains on the supermarket shelves.

For some helpful commentary on this issue, see Fanatic Cook's latest post, Playing with Grains.

Mini-dose CTA?

I caught this little news report in the online edition of Canyon News , an LA paper, under the title Cedars-Sinai Develops Test to Prevent Heart Attacks .

They report that Dr. Daniel S. Berman M.D., chief of Cardiac Imaging and Nuclear Cardiology at Cedars-Sinai, reports that a new method of performing CT coronary angiography, "mini-dose CTA," has been developed that allows both coronary calcium scoring as well as CT coronary angiography (CTA) at a dose as low as 10% of standard dose. No technical details were provided.

Now, that may be worth knowing more about. If this is true, then CTA may indeed be useful as a "screening" procedure. However, we are going to need to know more: What devices are capable of doing this, what settings on the devices were used, etc. It does indeed come from a reputable source in Dr. Dan Berman, who is well known in nuclear cardiology circles.

We will try and dig for info. Stay tuned.

Wheat-free and weight loss

With a heart scan score of 1222, Leslie could be in deep trouble in short order.

At 64 years old, Leslie had gained nearly 40 lbs since she'd given up a lot of her activities caring for a husband who'd developed psychological difficulties and stopped contributing to the household duties. A tall woman at 5 ft 9 inches, she held her 202 lbs well, but her lipoprotein patterns were a disaster:

--LDL particle number 2482 nmol/l--an equivalent LDL cholesterol of 248 mg/dl (drop the last digit)
--HDL 38 mg/dl
--Triglycerides 241 mg/dl
--90% of LDL particles were small
--Lipoprotein(a) 240 nmol/l

Blood sugar was in the pre-diabetic range at 112 mg/dl, C-reactive protein was high at 3.0 mg/l, blood pressure was somewhat high at 140/84.

Now, with the exception of lipoprotein(a), these patterns are exquisitely weight-sensitive. A reduction in weight would yield effects superior to any medication I could give her.

Processed wheat products were a big problem for Leslie: whole wheat bread, pretzels for snacks, whole wheat pasta. Yes, they sound healthy, even endorsed by the American Heart Association, often bearing "heart healthy" labels on the packages. Don't you believe it.

In particular, Leslie had the number one cause for heart disease in America: small LDL particles, a pattern that is magnified 30-70% by wheat products. Endorsed by the Heart Association? (As I often tell people, if you want heart disease, follow the diet advocated by the American Heart Association.)

Leslie was skeptical, worried that she would be hungry all the time and would have virtually nothing left to eat. Instead, when she returned to the office three months later, she reported that eating was easy, finding healthy foods not containing wheat was easier than she thought, she felt great, finding more energy than she'd had in years.

She'd also shed 30 lbs.

Leslie's lipoprotein patterns also reflected the weight loss. She achieved her 60:60:60 Track Your Plaque lipid targets, small LDL shrunk dramatically, blood sugar and blood pressure were back in normal ranges.

I see results like Leslie's several times every week. For those of us with patterns like Leslie's, or just obesity that accumulates in the abdomen, going wheat-free is among the most powerful single strategies I know of.

If you need convincing, try an experiment. Eliminate--not reduce, but eliminate wheat products from your diet, whether or not the fancy label on the package says it's healthy, high in fiber, a "healthy low-fat snack", etc. This means no bread, pasta, crackers, cookies, breads, chips, pancakes, waffles, breading on chicken, rolls, bagels, cakes, breakfast cereal. I find elimination of wheat easier than just cutting back. I believe this is because wheat is powerfully addictive. It's very similar to telling an alcoholic that a drink now and then is okay--it just doesn't work. They need to be alcohol-free. Most of us need to be wheat-free, not just cut back.

You won't be hungry if you replace the lost calories with plenty of raw almonds, walnuts, pecans, sunflower and pumpkin seeds; more liberal use of healthy olive oil, canola oil and flaxseed oil; adding ground flaxseed and oat bran to yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.; and more lean proteins like lean beef, chicken, turkey, fish, and eggs.

The majority of people who go wheat-free lose weight, sometimes dramatically. Most people also feel better: more energy, more alert, better sleep, less mood swings. Time and again, people who try this will tell me that the daytime grogginess they've suffered and lived with for years, and would treat with loads of caffeine, is suddenly gone. They cruise through their day with extra energy.

Even without weight loss, going wheat-free usually raises HDL, reduces the dreaded small LDL dramtically. It also reduces triglycerides, blood sugar, C-reactive protein, blood pressure. Blood sugar control in diabetics is far easier, with less fluctuations and sharp rises in blood sugar.

Success at this also yields great advantage for your heart scan score control and reversal efforts.

Collective wisdom


As public consciousness and knowledge about health issues grows, thanks to the internet and other media, I predict that:

1) Hospitals will recede into a role of acute and catastrophic care ONLY, dropping the charade of providing health, which they do NOT.

2) Doctors and other health professionals will begin to see themselves as providers of acute and catastrophic care, also. They will stop providing day to day care, such as treating high blood pressure, cholesterol, breast exams, and other preventive maintenance.

3) Instead, preventive care will be self-provided. The public will have acquired sufficient savvy and know-how to manage issues like blood pressure themselves. They will need the assistance of helpful information resources, web-based for the most part. Much preventive care can, in fact, be algorithm-driven, just like following a simple recipe.

All the worries about runaway health care costs will be much reduced, since excessive testing driven by liability worries will disappear, repeated office visits for day-to-day issues will go away. Yes, you will need a doctor and hospital for a broken leg, car accident, unexpected cancer, or non-compliance or neglect of prevention.

But osteoporosis, high blood pressure, nutrition, weight loss, hormone management, cholesterol issues, minor complaints will all be managed by people themselves with the assistance of web-based knowledge systems.

I already sense this sort of phenomeonon developing, though in its infancy, in venues like the Track Your Plaque Forum and other health portals, places where the information being discussed exceeds the quality of information you can obtain from your doctor. Over and over again, for instance, the sophistication and knowledge demonstrated by our Track Your Plaque Forum discussions shows that the public is capable of far more understanding of health issues than many previously believed. Most of our members could carry on a credible conversation with trained lipid experts. The knowledge base of our members exceeds that of 98% of most of my colleagues when it comes to heart scans, lipoproteins, and nutrition.

I am in awe of Wikipedia, the popular online encyclopedia. Five 20- and 30-somethings have created a knowledge base that has now eclipsed Encyclopedia Britannica in size and scope, with equivalent accuracy, and relatively little cost. I'd like to see the same phenomenon occur in health care information, helping to usurp the current paternalistic "I'll tell you what to do" model.

Success--Slow but sure

John is a gentleman.

At age 76, he continues to teach at a local college. He's a delight to talk to, having written several scholarly books on religious topics. He's a fountain of knowledge on religious history and the roots of faith.

John is one of those incurably optimistic people, always greeting me with a smile and a warm handshake. I can't help but linger for a hour or so to talk with John, unfortunately disrupting my office schedule miserably.

John is another Track Your Plaque success story. Though he didn't set any records in reduction of his heart scan score, he did it simply by adhering to the program over a period of two years, succeeding slowly but surely.

John's first heart scan score: 1190, a score that carries as much as a 25% annual risk for heart attack. Among the list of causes was an LDL cholesterol in the 170 mg/dl range, along with an LDL particle number that verified the accuracy of LDL.

Among John's suggested treatments was a statin drug, since I was not confident he could reduce LDL with diet and nutritional modifications sufficiently to safely reduce both LDL and his risk for heart attack. But he proved terribly intolerant to any dose of any statin, with incapacitating and strange side-effects, like head-to-toe itching, abdominal cramps and diarrhea. It was clear: John needed to do the program without benefit of a statin drug.

I therefore asked John to maximize all efforts that reduce LDL, 70% of which were small LDL paricles despite his very slender build. He used oat bran and ground flaxseed daily, raw nuts, a soy protein smoothie every morning, and eliminated wheat and other high-glycemic index foods (including the Oreos he loved to snack on). Because the mis-adventures with statin drugs wasted nearly a year, I asked John to undergo another heart scan. Score 2: 1383, a 16% increase.

I asked John to keep on going. Thankfully, he did manage to tolerate fish oil, niacin (though it required over a year just to get to a 1000 mg per day dose), and vitamin D. With all these efforts, he did reduce LDL to the 80-90 mg/dl range. Of course, John's unflagging optimism was crucial. He did express his occasional anxiety over his heart scan score, but dealt with it in a logical, philosophical way. He understood that there was no role for prophylactic stents or bypass, and he accepted that much of his program rested on his ability to adhere to the strategies we advised.

Another year later, a 3rd heart scan: 1210, a 12% reduction.

I'm very proud of John and his success. When you think about it, he succeeded in conquering heart disease with some very simple tools, minus statin drugs. It can be done, but requires consistency and patience--and an optimistic outlook.

Vitamin D and octagenarians

Roger practically bounced in his chair vibrating with energy.

"It must be the vitamin D! I haven't felt like this in years. I can work around the yard all day and still have energy left over."

At age 84, Roger started out with pretty good health, despite a prosthetic valve and bypass surgery 5 years earlier. He looked 74, perhaps younger.

I've seen this effect now in about 20 octagenarians. A Track Your Plaque Member mentioned this same effect in his father-in-law in a discussion in our Forum. Most are taking around 6000-8000 units per day (gelcap, of course). The average dose of vitamin D tends to be higher in this age group, since by age 80, you've essentially lost the capacity to convert 7-hydrocholesterol to active vitamin D3 in the skin. Most octagenarians start with 25-OH-vitamin D3 levels of 10 ng/ml or less--profound deficiency.

I believe the effect is real, having now witnessed it multiple times. Unfortunately, my observations are too informal to qualify as a study. (I wouldn't even know how to quantify this. I suppose some sort of muscle and coordination testing might yield quantifiable measures.) However, there are some data emerging that show less fractures, falls, improved coordination, and perhaps improved memory and mentation with vitamin D supplementation, though doses often used in studies tend to be lower than what we are using in practice.

I haven't been so excited about the effects of a nutritional supplement in a long time. Vitamin D continues to yield surprises every day in its array of positive and powerful effects.

Could we say that vitamin D restores youthfulness?
One hour blood sugar: Key to carbohydrate control and reversing diabetes

One hour blood sugar: Key to carbohydrate control and reversing diabetes

Diabetics are instructed to monitor blood glucose first thing in the morning and two hours after eating. This helps determine whether blood sugar is controlled with medications like metformin, Januvia, Byetta injections, or insulin.

But that's not how you use blood sugar to use to prevent or reverse diabetes. Two-hour blood sugars are also of no help in deciding whether you have halted glycation, or glucose modification of proteins the process that leads to cataracts, brittle cartilage and arthritis, oxidation of small LDL particles, atherosclerosis, kidney disease, etc.

So the key is to check one-hour after-eating (postprandial) blood sugars, a time when blood glucose peaks after consumption of carbohydrates. (It may peak somewhat sooner or later, depending on factors such as how much fluid was in the meal; protein, fat, and fiber content; presence of foods like vinegar that slow gastric emptying; the form of carbohydrate such as amylopectin A vs. amylopectin B, amylose, fructose, along with other factors. Once in a while, you might consider constructing your own postprandial glucose curve by doing fingersticks every 15 minutes to determine when your peak occurs.)

I reject the insane notion that after-eating blood sugars of less than 200 mg/dl are acceptable, the value accepted widely as the cutoff for health. Blood sugars this high occurring with any regularity ensure cataracts, arthritis, and all the other consequences of cumulative glycation. I therefore aim to keep one-hour after-eating glucoses 100 mg/dl or less. If you start in a pre-diabetic or diabetic range of, say, 120 mg/dl, then I advise people to not allow blood glucose to go any higher. A pre-meal blood glucose of 120 mg/dl would therefore be followed by an after-eating blood glucose of no higher than 120 mg/dl.

No doubt: This is strict. But people who do this:

--Lose weight from visceral fat
--Heighten insulin sensitivity
--Drop blood pressure
--Drop HbA1c and fasting glucose over time
--Reduce small LDL and other carbohydrate-sensitive measures

By the way, if you inadvertently trigger a high blood sugar like I did when I took my kids to the all-you-can-eat Indian buffet, go for a walk, bike, or burn the sugar off with a 30-minute or longer physical effort. Check your blood sugar again and it should be back in desirable range. But then learn from your lesson: Eliminate or reduce portion size of the culprit carbohydrate food.

Comments (27) -

  • Might-o'chonri-AL

    8/2/2011 6:11:40 AM |

    Glyco-sylation occurs inside a cell's endoplasmic reticulum lumen when certain  carbohydrates  (in the form of N-linked oligo-saccharides) meld with a newly folded protein that gets translated into  a glyco-protein.  There are different rates of activation and de-activation  between glyco-sylated and un-glycosylated proteins; this affects how that protein migrates as it tries to perform it's job and how  glycation can induce degenerative states.  Tissue cells with endoplasmic reticulum stress can exasperate certain disease progression because such "stress" there promotes more glycosylation.

  • Annabel

    8/2/2011 12:40:42 PM |

    I couldn't agree more with the advice to test every 15 minutes as a means of discovering your own "sugar curve." When I tried this, I found that my own peak falls pretty consistently at 75 minutes after beginning a meal. Testing at 2 hours completely overlooks my highest blood glucose levels.

    It's a particularly good technique for those folks whose A1c levels are higher than their fingersticks would predict...it's almost surely because they're doing their sticks way past their glucose peak.

    When test strips cost up to a buck apiece, it may feel hard to justify using six or eight of them on a single meal--but what you learn may save tens of thousands in medical bills!

  • Curt

    8/2/2011 1:31:12 PM |

    Another great article - thank you! I'm curious about your thoughts on controlled 1 hour blood sugars (mine are rarely over 110) but baseline levels that aren't much lower. Typically in the 95-105 range. I will get something in the 80s occasionally, but 100 is more common. I never really spike - even a high carb meal will only get me to 130s or so and that never really happens as I don't eat much sugar/starch at all.

    Another quick question: You've mentioned a couple times recently about this way of eating being particularly good for VISCERAL fat. That is exactly what I've found. Tremendous benefits and I feel great. I have leveled out for a while (months) in fat loss, however, with a good amount of subcutaneous fat still present. Is there another protocol for getting after this type of fat? I'm already no wheat, low carb, paleo.

    Thanks again for your excellent articles! Always learning something new.......

  • ShottleBop

    8/2/2011 1:38:20 PM |

    Do you have citations to support your statement that glycation occurs at BGs of 100 or more?  This is one of the more-commonly discussed issues on diabetes discussion boards--but folks are wont to ask for backup.

  • Jeff C

    8/2/2011 1:47:11 PM |

    Regarding glycation specifically...

    1. Do you agree that fructose ("frucation") causes more AGE than glucose?
    2. What to you make of Ray Peat's assertion that poly-fats are much more glycalating than glucose?

    "The so-called "advanced glycation end products," that have been blamed on glucose excess, are mostly derived from the peroxidation of the "essential fatty acids." The name, “glycation,” indicates the addition of sugar groups to proteins, such as occurs in diabetes and old age, but when tested in a controlled experiment, lipid peroxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids produces the protein damage about 23 times faster than the simple sugars do." (Fu, et al., 1996)." - Ray Peat

  • Richard

    8/2/2011 3:21:55 PM |

    Thanks for the great article!
    I've just begun tracking blood sugars closely, changed my diet to one very low in carbs and no grains, and am determined to find ways to keep at it. I've started a blog just track my progress and keep me honest: http://transformation-transformative.blogspot.com/
    I'll also try the 15 minute testing to see where my personal peak in blood sugar occurs.
    Again, many thanks!

  • steve

    8/2/2011 3:31:08 PM |

    Hi Dr. Davis:  What is the relationship between fasting BG taken at the Dr's office and A!C?  My fasting BG level is 73.5 but my A1C is 5.4.  I would have expected the A1C to more correspond to the fasting measurement; in the case of my wife it does.  Is it related more to the red blood cells lingering around longer or lipoprotein particles which increases the chance of glycation?  Recently had a larger than normal amount of carbs in a meal- rice and blueberries and BG spiked to 119, not to bad, but will experiment with carb portion to keep under 100 as BG may be a contributing factor to my CAD.  I am also a hyperabsorber of fat despite being an ApoE 3/3.

    As an aside, i have sent around a link of one of your interviews regarding Wheat Belly and many eyes have been opened as well as many looking to buy the book.  Might not be a bad idea to have a link to any of your interviews on Wheat Belly posted to this site.
    Thanks for the enlightening good work!

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/3/2011 12:23:09 AM |

    Hi, Shottle--
    This will be the topic of an upcoming discussion. The documentation of this effect is quite extensive. It is no longer a matter of "if" but "how much."

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/3/2011 12:25:11 AM |

    Hi, Jeff--
    This is one of oranges and apples comparisons.
    Fructose does indeed induce flagrant glycation. Glucose induces glycation, though less vigorously.

    However, there is a separate but very poorly named process called exogenous glycation which has less to do with glycation than with oxidation of fats.

    This will be the topic of future discussions.

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/3/2011 12:26:22 AM |

    My first thought is that, if weight loss is ongoing, there is a temporary situation of insulin resistance that generally dissipates with weight stabilization.

    It's also possible that your pancreas has inadequate baseline production of insulin. I'm hoping it's the first possibility.

  • Dr. William Davis

    8/3/2011 12:28:05 AM |

    Hi, Steve-

    You will find that, if you did frequent fingersticks around the clock, the highish A1c reflects the higher blood glucose values that occur after meals.

    Thanks for the feedback on the Wheat Belly project. I will indeed crosslink some of the more relevant discussions.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    8/3/2011 2:39:31 AM |

    Advanced glycation end products (AGE) involve some of haemoglobin's hydro-carbon Beta side chain valine residue linking up to non-polar "glucose" aldehyde compounds and certain non-"glucose" aldehydes. Various pathological kinds of AGEs can occur from distinct events; in one situation it is macrophage activity producing enzymatic myelo-peroxidase, which can activate hypochlorite favoring a serine amino acid wing to form up to make the AGE called glyco-aldehyde.

    Probably the AGE called methyl-glyoxal is the one most relevant to diabetes prevention; since Type 1 diabetics blood serum levels of methyl-glyoxal is +/- 6 times higher than normal. This AGE can be formed when the byproduct triose-phosphate (triose = subset of carbs) is generated from the glycolytic pathway called  Embden-Meyerhof; this  byproduct risks being made into methyl-glyoxal.

    Maybe the most well known AGEs are the non-enzymatic Amadori products formed via hydrolysis; one is called glyoxal coming from glucose oxidation. And the other Amadori type AGE is 3-deoxy-glucosone (3DG), which requires fructo-selysine and the fructos-amine 3 kinase cascade to shuffle together 3DG.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    8/3/2011 2:40:38 AM |

    Diabetes reveals the problem with AGEs; this is because diabetics risk incurring kidney nephro-pathy, One of the pathological results is oxidative kidney stress, which limits sodium (Na) excretion thereby fostering  hyper-tension . When AGEs like 3DG, glyoxal & methyl-glyoxal  (among others, like pentosidine ) circulate into the kidneys their carbonyl compounds  are hard to clear by the kidneys; the side effect is to engender  uric uremia problems and meanwhile levels of carbonyls build up in what is called "carbonyl stress".
    Japan research of the plant compound chamaemeloside found that in humans it lowered levels of the AGEs 3DG & pentosidne better than any other natural remedy; optimal response was reduction of down to 1/5 th of subject's starting levels.  Chamaemeloside is the active compound in chamomile (Anthemis noblis); the extraction formula was 1 Kg of chamomile flowers steeped covered in 20 Lt. water for 3 hours at 80* celcius ( a lab temperature probably not critical for home remedy preparation).

  • Peter Silverman

    8/3/2011 12:56:13 PM |

    Volek and Phinney in their new book about carbohydrate restriction think that as you increase  fat from 30% to 60% of your diet, insulin resistance increases, then it drops when you go above 60%.  It seems that among the most experienced researchers of carbohydrate restriction, there's little consensus about the optimal amount of fat or carbs.  Ron Krausse, for instance, thinks 35% to 45% is optimal.

  • steve

    8/3/2011 5:23:50 PM |

    Peter:
    When these researchers talk about carb levels are they considering vegetables to be carbs, or just fruits, grains, potatoes?

  • frank weir

    8/3/2011 6:41:32 PM |

    You must mean, "can exacerbate certain disease progression...." meaning: to increase the severity, violence, or bitterness of; aggravate

  • frank weir

    8/3/2011 6:59:22 PM |

    This is wonderful information BUT I wonder if it might be unfortunate if folks who routinely have post-prandials of 120 to 140 take your 100 level as a sign of "failure"...things are seldom so cut and dried, black and white. I don't know if I'm hitting 100 or less  after every meal, but my A1C has dropped from 7.5 to 5.8 since last November restricting carbs. And I've lost 30 pounds. I will begin to be more dogmatic about one-hour glucose checks but my rough sense is that I'm not at 100 or less a majority of the time. But I might be wrong about that. Do you see what I'm getting at? Glucose control is an ongoing process that includes lots of self education since most GP's are not keen AT ALL on restricting carbs, including mine. When I read your post, my initial feeling was, "Cripes, 100 after EVERY meal? Don't think I can do that...."

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    8/4/2011 1:05:26 AM |

    From another commentator here, in an  earlier thread of Dr. Davis' here is how to use HbA1c to determine your average blood glucose level (note: this is not a morning "fasting" level) .
    1st: multiply your HbA1c by 28.7
    2nd: subtract 46.7 from 1st amount
    3rd: take last number as your average waking hours mg/dL blood glucose over last  few months  
    ex:  HbA1c of 5.4 x 28.7 = 159.98 minus 46.7 = 108.28 mg/dL of average blood glucose level

  • Peter Silverman

    8/4/2011 2:24:31 AM |

    They don't count non-starchy vegetable as carbs.

  • ShottleBop

    8/4/2011 3:15:11 AM |

    Thanks for the heads up!

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  • Stephanie

    8/4/2011 2:13:27 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
    I have found that if I take my carb level too low (below 50g per day) that my fasting blood glucose levels actually go up rather than down.  If my carb intake is closer to 70-80, my fasting glucose is lower.

    Have you had this experience with some of your patients?  Can you shed any light onto what might be happening?

    Thanks!
    Stephanie

  • Anne

    8/4/2011 2:34:11 PM |

    Non-starchy vegetables do have carbs and I do have to count them. A half cup of broccoli can have about 6 carbs and since I limit my carbs to no more than 15g/meal, that broccoli on my plate is significant.

    I found getting a scale that reads carbs too was an important tool for me. I found I was ofter overestimating how much of a low carb veggie I could eat. If my blood sugar starts to rise, I go back to measuring and that seems to get me back on track.

    Anne

  • majkinetor

    8/14/2011 1:25:56 PM |

    I think thats normal, its commonly encountered on paleo forums/blogs. It has something to do with physiological insulin resistance, Petro @ Hyperlipid talked about. Look here:

    http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2007/10/physiological-insulin-resistance.html

  • majkinetor

    8/14/2011 1:38:24 PM |

    I wouldn't suggest that everybody blindly follow CHO < 50g / day. As always, its about the context. People usually forget that. We mostly extrapolate from results of people who already have metabolic problems.

    Anyway, I am currently perfectly healthy apart from some minor dermatology problems (eczema).
    When I have prolonged periods of reduced CHO input (around 50g / day), I eventually start having some mucus problems. Dry eyes particularly, but also joint pain. I am not 100% sure if its about low carb diet, but it looks like it. Now I target 75g < CHO < 100g per day by adding small potato and a bit more chocolate to my diet.

    I think overemphasizing carb reduction is not good thing for most people. Carbs should go down by pretty big amount for most people, but not to extreme. In anyway, its better to measure then to guess. My sugar is never above 110 after meal and fasting is always around 95.

  • John F

    8/13/2012 9:48:10 AM |

    I decided to take this advice and have been tracking my 60 mins postprandial blood glucose for the past two days to see if all the years I've been low carbing have been making any difference. Especially working my way through different foods to see how they affect me and I've ranged from 64 mg/dl to 97 mg/dl so I'm pretty hapy.

    However this evening 60 minutes after my dinner of panfried steak with a creamy cajun sauce I got a reading of just 55 mg/dl. A lot of websites say this is too low. I'm 32, healthy male, 5,9", weigh 160 lbs, not diabetic and I don't feel sick so I'm not sure what to make of this low reading. The only thing I did was finish a hard CrossFit workout about 30 mins before I had dinner... so a total of 90 minutes before the blood glucose test.

    Any advice on what this "low" reading means? I'm hoping it's normal and means I'm burning fat!

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