Conventional therapy vs. alternative therapy

Rose is a 75-year old woman, mother of four, grandmother of many more.

Rose's story started after a heart attack 18 months ago that resulted in two stents. She was advised to follow an American Heart Association diet and take Lipitor. However, some months later, after her fourth stent, she became disilluioned in the conventional approach to heart disease and sought alternative therapies to help reduce or reverse her heart disease.

She found an alternative health practitioner who advised chelation, antioxidant vitamins for "excessive oxidation," and several homeopathic preparations.

Nothing was said about diet or exercise. Nothing was said about the baked flour products and pastries that occupied at least two meals every day. Nothing was said about the candies she indulged in several times per day, nor the soft drinks. Nothing was said about the wildly fluctuating blood sugars, poorly controlled by an oral diabetes agent. Thirty pounds of weight gain over the past 5 years with no exercise or physical activity? No comment here, too.

In short, Rose was the "graduate" of the conventional approach, as typically offered nationwide thousands of times a week. She was also the recipient of the insight of at least one alternative health practitioner, eager to reject conventional notions of how to achieve heart health.

So I then met her. She was experiencing chest pains every day, several times per day. Blood pressure over 200. At 5 ft, 3 inches, weight: 186 lbs.

Initial laboratory results:

HDL cholesterol 42 mg/dl
LDL 132 mg/dl
Triglycerides 263 mg/dl
Blood sugar 173 mg/dl


You can fill in the rest. In short, Rose was a disaster. Despite the attentions of several professionals from both the conventional as well as alternative camps, she was careening rapidly towards failure. She'd been given various crutches, Band-Aids, and salves, none of which resulted in any possibility of long-term relief from her aggressive disease.

My point: As I've said previously, all we want is truth. We want effective, rational approaches that yield real benefit. A stent? All that provides is temporary restoration of blood flow. Statin agents? They do indeed reduce LDL cholesterol. But what if Rose has 8, 9, or 10 other causes of heart disease unaffected by the statin drug? It will do little or nothing.

Nobody had addressed many of the root causes of Rose's disease: insulin resistance, high triglycerides, inactivity, obesity, hypertension (and identifying the reasons why her blood pressure was so high), vitamin D deficiency (virtually guarantted to be severe), junk foods including the ones known as "whole grains."

My message: Success in heart disease, as well as all aspects of health for that matter, doesn't necessarily have to come from an "alternative" approach, nor a "conventional" approach. It comes from applying what is truly effective, regardless of what label someone applied to it.

I would no sooner trust my health and life to an alternative health practitioner hawking unusual herbs and remedies than I would submit to a heart catheterization, three stents, followed by a statin drug. There's small benefit in both approaches, but none are the best. You've got to look elsewhere for that.


Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

The JELIS Trial

The Japan eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) Lipid Intervention Study (JELIS) is a clinical trial that all Track Your Plaquers should know about.

This enormous trial followed a simple design:

Japanese men, between 40-75 years, and Japanese postmenopausal women aged <75 years with total cholesterol 250 mg/dl or greater were enrolled. A total of 18,645 subjects (mean age, 61 years; 31% male) participated: 36% had hypertension, 15% had diabetes, and 20% had coronary disease (history of heart attack or heart procedure). Average starting total cholesterol 275 mg/dl; LDL 180 mg/dl. All participants were treated with pravastatin 10 mg/day or simvastatin 5 mg/day; approximately half also received the omega-3, EPA, 1800 mg/day, in addition to one of the statin drugs.

Treatment resulted in an average LDL reduction of 26% in all participants; the group taking EPA experienced an additional 10% reduction in triglycerides. All major cardiovascular events were tracked and tabulated, including sudden cardiac death, fatal or nonfatal myocardial infarction (MI), unstable angina pectoris, coronary artery bypass surgery, and coronary angioplasty.

After nearly five years, 3.5% of statin-only participants experienced an event; 2.8% of statin + EPA experienced an event. The (often misleading and frequently abused value) "relative reduction" was therefore 19%.

There are several features that make the JELIS trial interesting:

--There were an unusually low number of cardiovascular events in the entire group, lower than nearly all American and European trials of similar design. This likely points to the greater burden of atherosclerotic heart disease in the U.S. compared to Japan. Rates in comparable U.S.-based trials usually range from 6-14%, sometimes more.

--Both the participants without identified heart disease at enrollment and those with heart disease at enrollment obtained a similar magnitude of beneficial reduction in cardiovascular events.

--There was an unusual preponderance of women--69%--unlike most other trials of cardiovascular events. We might therefore argue that JELIS most conclusively showed that benefits of EPA are most confidently demonstrated for females.

--A fish oil preparation containing only EPA was used, rather than the usual EPA + DHA. There are discussions from some corners that argue that DHA is more important than EPA, e.g., algae sources. However, JELIS would argue that EPA does play a role. Is EPA with DHA better, worse, or no different? Unfortunately, there are insufficient data--large, randomized data like JELIS--to help us. Recall that GISSI Prevenzione used a combination of EPA and DHA, as have virtually all other trials examining the effects of fish oil. Also, keep in mind that the epidemiologic observations of the cardiovascular benefits of eating fish suggest that the naturally-sourced omega-3s--a combination of EPA and DHA--are associated with benefit.

--It's surprising that any difference at all was demonstrated, given the high intake of fish in the Japanese. In fact, blood levels of EPA in participants before taking EPA was five-fold higher than in western populations.


One potential difficulty: The study was funded by the manufacturer of the EPA preparation used, Mochida Pharmaceutical Company. We all know what that can do to results.

Nonetheless, the JELIS trial is a study that adds to the emerging wisdom in fish oil.


Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

Omega-3 MUST be from fish oil

Despite my rants in this blog and elsewhere, at least once a day I'll have a patient say, "I cut back (or eliminated) my fish oil because I get my omega-3s from _______ (insert your choice of flaxseed oil, walnuts, yogurt, mayonnaise, bread, etc.)."

(See prior Heart Scan Blog post: Everything has omega-3.)

When I point out to them that the "omega-3s" in these products are not the same as the EPA and DHA from fish oil, they invariably declare, "But it says so here on the label: 'Contains 200 mg of omega-3 fatty acids'!"

Apparently, some of my colleagues have even endorsed this concept of replacing the omega-3s from fish oil with these "alternatives."

It's simply not true. The linolenic acid that is being labeled as omega-3, while it may indeed provide health benefits of its own, cannot replace the EPA and DHA that fish oil provides.

The most graphic example of the differences between the two classes of oils is in people with a condition called familial hypertriglyceridemia. People with this condition have triglyceride levels of 400, 600, even thousands of mg/dl--very high. Fish oil, usually providing EPA and DHA doses of 1800 mg per day and higher, reduce triglycerides dramatically. A person with a starting triglyceride level of, say, 900 mg/dl, may take 2400 mg of EPA and DHA from fish oil and triglycerides plummet to 150 mg/dl. This person then decides to replace fish oil with a linolenic acid source like flaxseed oil. Triglycerides? 900 mg/dl--no effect whatsoever.

Familial hypertriglyceridemia represents an exagerrated example of the differences between the two oils. Even if you don't have this genetic condition, the differences between the oils still apply.

EPA and DHA are activators of the enzyme, lipoprotein lipase, that accelerates clearance of triglycerides from the blood. Linolenic acid from flaxseed oil, walnuts, and other food sources does not. EPA and DHA block after-eating (post-prandial) accumulation of food by-products that can contribute to coronary and carotid plaque. Linolenic acid does not. EPA and DHA block platelets, reduce fibrinogen, and exert other healthy blood clot-inhibiting effects. Linolenic does not.

The 11,000-participant GISSI-Prevenzione Trial that showed 28% reduction in heart attack, 45% reduction in cardiovascular death with omega-3s used . . . fish oil.

The 18,000 participant JELIS trial that showed 19% reduction in cardiovascular events when omega-3s were added to statin therapy used . . . fish oil. (Actually, in JELIS, they used only EPA wtihout DHA.)

Linolenic acid is not a waste, however. It may exert anti-inflammatory benefits of its own, for instance. But it exerts none of the triglyceride-modifying effects of EPA or DHA.

EPA and DHA from fish oil and linolenic acid from foods each provide benefits in their own way. Ideally, you include both forms of oils--fish oil and linolenic acid sources--in your daily diet and obtain full benefit from each separate class. But they are not interchangeable.


Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

Osteoporosis and coronary calcium

Several studies over the years have demonstrated a curious paradox:

People with more osteoporosis (thin bones) tend to be more likely to have coronary disease (heart attacks). They also tend to have higher heart scan scores (more coronary calcification as an index of atherosclerotic plaque).

People with more coronary disease and higher heart scan scores tend to have more osteoporosis.



In other words, regardless of which way you tackle the question--osteoporosis first or heart disease first--it leads to the same conclusion: Both conditions are somehow related.

I realize I harp an awful lot on this whole vitamin D issue. But, even after correcting the vitamin D blood levels of many hundreds of people, I remain enthusiastic as ever about the untapped potential of this fascinating factor.

So I couldn't resist showing this amazing comparison of how the long-term effect can be quite graphic.

The first scan is from a 46-year old man and shows normal coronary arteries without calcium and normal density of the vertebra (a common and reliable place to measure bone density).

























The second image is from a 79-year old man with both severe coronary calcification (and therefore severe coronary disease) and severe osteoporosis.
























It makes you wonder if the disordered metabolism of calcium through vitamin D deficiency allows transport of calcium away from bone and into coronaries. This has, however, been shown to not be the case. Instead, they are separate processes, each under local control, but sharing a common pathophysiology (causative factors).

An intriguing question: Would the 79-year old still look like the 46-year old had he begun increasing his vitamin D intake at, say, age 30?

About comment responses and moderation

Just a brief word about my responses to reader comments:

I appreciate the many often insightful and interesting reader comments I receive to the Heart Scan Blog. However, managing them and responding to them has simply become impossible, due to time demands.

I'm afraid that I am unable to answer questions seeking medical advice; this is for your doctor, who knows you and can diagnose and prescribe. I cannot.

I'm also unable to engage in lengthy debates; I've had commenters become very angry when I was unable to engage in lengthy conversations on some topic. Nor am I able to do Google or literature searches for commenters, or review studies, papers, or other materials.

I would urge any readers who wish to engage in in-depth discussions about these issues, talk about lipoproteins, heart disease reversal, etc. to do so on the Track Your Plaque Forums. Yes, it is a fee-for-membership website, a model that has become necessary to pay for the services we provide (not pay me).

I wish that I could answer all the concerns and questions that come my way, but it's simply physically impossible doing so while maintaining a full-time very busy cardiology practice, developing the Track Your Plaque website (which is becoming an enormous responsibility), publishing scientific data, maintaining hospital responsibilities, and spending time with my wife and family. We're all busy and I'm no different. I'm afraid that it's my responses to blog comments that I will have to sacrifice.

I invite commenters to continue to comment on these posts, as I've learned many new things by reading them and find them helpful feedback. And I do read them. Should an especially helpful comment be made, I will feature it in a new blog post, rather than respond directly.

"Flying in the fog"

I received this wonderful response to The Heart Scan Blog post Hammers and Nails:

I am 65 years old. I had a stent inserted in the "widow-maker" artery (80% blockage) a year ago. I had passed out a couple of times (heart rate dangerously low - 30s). I rode to the hospital in an ambulance. Tests revealed short LBBB episodes; mild mitral regurgitation, mild tricuspid regurgitation. Catherization showed 3 vessel CAD. I was told that a medicated stent was absolutely necessary given the situation; regardless, I have to accept that. A pacemaker was installed to prevent bradycardia and keeps heart rate from dropping below 60. I have 20% L distal main blockage and 90% lesion of the high first obtuse marginal at the takeoff. The right coronary had 60% posterior lateral branch stenosis.

Since then I have reduced TG from 360 to 60, LDL from 89 to 82 (although a few months ago it was in the mid-70s), and increased HDL from 30 to 46. I went from 265lbs to 190lbs and hope to eventually get to 180lb this Spring. I did it by progressing from walking to trotting (slow run) and dietstyle changes (low-GI veggies, fruits, etc.) .













On a recent visit the cardiologist said the the LDL needs to be 70 or below to "freeze" the 90% blockage and gave me a prescription for Lipitor. I asked if there were alternatives, like diet, supplements, etc. He admitted that he did not know about those alternative but did know Lipitor. When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything is a nail. I understand that the 90% blockage is important but will not take the Lipitor to achieve the 12 points reduction. Seems like an overkill.

I asked him if there was a way to evaluate my current condition. I was told there was no way. Basically, if I have no symptoms, good. If I have symptoms then it will have to be evaluated. Death could be the only symptom. I swear he was about to say bypass surgery ($$$$$$!) was inevitable. Something is wrong with this "fly-in-the-fog-and-hope-you-don't- hit-a-mountain" approach. Hope is not a strategy!

I am confident that I can reduce LDL to below 70 based on eliminating wheat-products in my diet plus increasing oat bran in my diet. I also take fish oil daily (EPA/DHA-2g). I am looking for a new cardiologist. I just recently purchased your book and find it very instructive. In the meantime I have an appointment with my primary care physician to discuss implementing the Track Your Plaque program. I realize that the one stent will skew the scan numbers but can be used as a baseline number.



Phenomenal weight loss! That alone has likely cut this man's risk in half. But is that it? Is the cardiologist correct--take Lipitor and hope for the best?

Of course not. There are many additional strategies to employ. Eliminating wheat from the diet is an excellent idea: HDL will skyrocket, triglycerides drop even further, small LDL will drop like a stone, blood sugar and blood pressure will drop. He will have more energy, get rid of afternoon energy slumps, sleep better.

He has already added fish oil. If his cardiologist did not mention this, I would say he was guilty of malpractice. The data supporting the addition of fish oil to the treatment program of anyone with heart disease is overhwelming. GISSI Prevenzione: 11,000 participants--28% reduction in heart attack, 45% reduction in death from heart attack. The Japanese JELIS trial of 18,645 participants--19% reduction in dangerous heart events. It's also clear that omega-3 fatty acids from fish oil also compound the benefits of statin agents, should this man choose to begin Lipitor.

Vitamin D brought to normal blood levels is his next "secret weapon" that will further boost his lipids and lipoproteins further into not just "normal" territory, but beyond belief. Even though we aim for 60-60-60 for LDL-HDL-triglycerides in the Track Your Plaque program, adding vitamin D can yield numbers you've never seen before. It's not uncommon, for instance, to see a 10 or 20 mg/dl jump in HDL.

Identify all other hidden causes of coronary plaque. If all the causes have not been fully identified, how can anyone hope to gain full control over coronary plaque growth?

Re: LDL cholesterol of 89 mg/dl at the start. Of course, this is a calculated value, not measured. Because HDL was low and triglycerides high at the start of his program, this means that true LDL--if actually measured--was probably more like 180 to 250 mg/dl, and it was probably nearly all small. So his cardiologist might have advised a helpful treatment, though for the wrong reasons.

Our reader has gone a long way on his own in creating his own prevention program. But there's yet more to do, particularly if the goal is reversal. It is shocking to me that a man like our reader, clearly articulate and motivated, gets virtually no advice beyond "take Lipitor" after all the procedural benefits have been reaped.

Even though one artery can no longer be "scored" due to the presence of the metallic stent, a heart scan would still be invaluable for long-term tracking purposes, just as we advocate in the Track Your Plaque program.



Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

Goodbye, Dr. Jarvik

HeartWire, the news service of www.theheart.org, posted the following report:

Pfizer pulls Lipitor ads featuring Dr Robert Jarvik in HeartWire

New York, NY - After a series of questions and attacks over its choice of Dr Robert Jarvik to endorse Lipitor in a series of TV commercials, Pfizer has announced that it is withdrawing the ads. As previously reported by heartwire, Jarvik invented the first artificial heart, but he is not a cardiologist, nor does he hold a medical license—factors that drew criticism from detractors and made him and Pfizer a target of a US House Committee on Energy and Commerce investigation into celebrity endorsements in direct-to-consumer advertisements.

In a January 2008 statement, committee chair Rep John D Dingell (D-MI) observed: "Dr Jarvik's appearance in the ads could influence consumers into taking the medical advice of someone who may not be licensed to practice medicine in the United States. Americans with heart disease should make medical decisions based on consultations with their doctors, not on paid advertisements during a commercial break."

Complaints about Jarvik went up a notch this month when the latest ad in the series depicted the inventor rowing a racing scull across a lake, despite the fact that Jarvik himself does not row and the commercial used a body double.


This is typical pharmaceutical industry sleight-of-hand, now you see it, now you don't, that has come to define their policies. And this is just the stuff that comes to light because of some obvious blunders. We can only begin to imagine what sorts of other shenanigans have been swept under the rug, especially adverse effects of drugs that never made it to the light of publication.

Is this just another example of how direct-to-consumer advertising has backfired? I now have patient after patient tell me that they have been so overwhelmed and fed up with TV and magazine ads for drugs that they



Other media outlets have reported that Jarvik was guaranteed $1.35 million for the ads and that Pfizer spent $258 million on Lipitor advertisements between January 2006 and September 2007.

Hammers and nails

I'm sure you've heard the old saying that,

To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.


It couldn't be truer than in heart procedures (the man with the hammer) and heart disease (the nail).

What does it take in 2008 to become an interventional cardiologist trained in all the techniques of angioplasty, stenting, intracoronary ultrasound, etc.? Start with your undergraduate degree (4 years), then medical school (another 4 years), then training in internal medicine (3 years), then general cardiology taining (3 years), then an additional year in interventional cardiology. Each step along the way also involves competing for these spaces, a process that requires much time, money, and sweat.

The total time investment is 15 years after high school. Many if not most college students graduate with debt. Pile on the substantial cost of medical school. Training after medical school pays a modest salary, enough for a single person. Many trainees by then have spouses and a family, would like to buy a house, have bills to pay. (I managed to buy my first house for $69,000 in Columbus, Ohio and paid my mortgage by sleeping only every other night and moonlighting on my off nights.)

By the time the interventional cardiologist-in-training finishes his/her 15 years, they are hungry for a hefty increase in income. After such a time and money investment, I do believe that there is at least some justification for generous income for the years of work involved.

Back to our hammer and nail metaphor. Not only do we now have a man or woman with a hammer, but a really expensive hammer that required a substantial amount of effort to obtain. Now, our hapless hammer-bearer is desperate to see everything in sight as a nail.

You're seen in consultation by this fresh interventional cardiologist in practice for only a few years. Guess what he/she advises? Go straight to the catheterization laboratory, of course. Throw in the fact that insurance reimbursement is most generous for heart procedures, far more than for consulting in the office, doing a stress test, or other simpler, non-invasive tests, and the incentives are clear.

The system, you see, is set up to follow such a path. The path to the cath lab is heavily incentivized, paths in the other direction discouraged, disparaged, or just ignored.

My message: Don't get nailed.

What is abnormal?

What is abnormal?

You'd think that the answer would be easy and straightforward.

However, consider these instances of medical findings that I have witnessed fall repeatedly into the "normal" category:

Diameter of the thoracic aorta: 4.5 cm

Mild coronary plaque by heart catheterization

Carotid plaque of 30-50%


Why isn't a thoracic aorta (the big artery in your chest) of 4.5 cm normal? Because it can be expected to increase in diameter by about 2.5 mm (0.25 cm) per year. Even at its current diameter, it means that stroke risk is greater, since enlarged aortas are diseased aortas that commonly accumulate atherosclerotic plaque with potential to fragment and shower debris to the brain. It means that high blood pressure and/or cholesterol/lipoprotein abnormalities have been uncorrected for years that have allowed the aorta to enlarge.

How about "mild coronary plaque"? Followers of the Track Your Plaque program already know the answer to this one. Mild plaque does not mean mild risk. In fact, most plaques that cause heart attack are mild plaques, not severe blockages. While severe blockages can provide symptom warning and are detected by stress tests, it's the mild blockages that rupture without symptom warning and cause heart attack. So "mild coronary plaque" is no less dangerous than severe coronary plaque.

Likewise, carotid plaque of 30-50%, while it doesn't justify surgery, can grow within just a few years to a severity that allows it to fragment and shower debris to the brain, i.e., a stroke. As with the enlarged aorta, it means that multiple causes of carotid plaque are likely active, including high blood pressure and cholesterol or lipoprotein abnormalities.

Then why would any of these findings be labeled "normal"?

Simple. In the minds of many physicians, if a condition doesn't pose immediate risk, or if it doesn't qualify for surgical "correction," then it is labeled "normal" or "mild."

Thus, an aorta of 4.5 cm cannot justify surgical replacement until it achieves a diameter of 5.5 cm. It is therefore labeled "normal."

"Mild coronary plaque" does not justify insertion of stents or performance of bypass surgery. It must therefore be "normal."

Carotid plaque over 70% is surgically removed, but not 30-50%. 30-50% is therefore "normal."

The tragedy is that many "normal" or "mild" findings, if cast in the proper light, could lead to corrective strategies that could prevent danger long-term or keep surgery from becoming necessary.

The enlarged aorta, for instance, could be stopped and an aneurysm (defined as 5.5 cm or greater) could be prevented, along with dramatically reducing risk for stroke. Carotid plaque, more so than coronary plaque, is a controllable and manipulable condition that should trigger a program of prevention and reversal. Instead, it usually generates advice to have another ultrasound in a year to see if it has yet achieved severity sufficient to justify surgery.

Of course, "mild coronary plaque" is the reason for the Track Your Plaque approach, a chance to seize control over this disease years or decades before procedures are necessary and reduce danger now, not years from now.


Copyright 2008 William Davis, MD

Niacin and hydration

Many people know about niacin's curious effect of the "hot flush," a feeling of warmth that covers the chest and neck, occasionally the entire body.

However, many people are unaware of the fact that hydration can block this effect. In fact, many people who were not advised of this will come to the office describing miserable experiences with niacin--hot flushes that last for hours, intolerable itching, etc.--only to experience little or none of these effects with generous hydration.

The vast majority of the time, two 8-12 oz glasses of water when the hot flush occurs will eliminate the flush within a few minutes.

Sometimes, the hot flush will occur many hours after taking niacin. Nine times out of ten, this delayed effect is also due to poor hydration. For instance, you might be engrossed in your work and forget to keep up with fluid demands. Or, it may be warm and you've lost fluids through sweating. That's when you begin to feel the hot flush creep up on you.

The cure: Lots of water. In this situation, in which you have allowed dehydration to develop, it may require more than two big glasses. Relief from the flush may also take more time, but it still works nearly every time.

On those rare occasions when water by itself is insufficient, then an adult (325 mg), uncoated aspirin or 200 mg ibuprofen can also be used to accelerate relief.

Why go to some much bother? Well, niacin remains the best agent we have for reduction of small LDL, raising HDL (although vitamin D is proving to be a powerful competitor in this arena), and reducing lipoprotein(a). How much do statin drugs contribute to these effects? Very little, if at all.

Several drug manufacturers are also working on "antidotes" to the hot flush effect of niacin that will be packaged within the niacin tablet. Naturally, it will also boost the cost up many times higher.

In the meantime, if or when you experience the niacin hot flush, just think: Put out the "fire" with plenty of water.
What is this wacky thing called "weight loss"?

What is this wacky thing called "weight loss"?

I've discussed this before, but it has proven such an (encouragingly!) frequent issue that I thought it was worth discussing once again.

What happens when you lose weight?

The process of weight loss is characterized by multiple shifts in metabolic patterns that can be confusing. To the uninitiated eye, weight loss can look like a disastrous distortion in metabolism. The naive doctor on seeing your lab values, for instance, might insist you take a statin drug, a fibrate like Tricor (to reduce triglycerides or increase HDL), or simply berate you for your bad health habits--when it's actually a good thing you've accomplished.

So when you lose weight, say, 30 pounds in 3 months, what have you accomplished?

Energy stored as fat, especially from visceral fat stores, is mobilized into the bloodstream. It floods the bloodstream as fatty acids and triglycerides. These fatty acids and triglycerides don't occur in isolation, but interact with other particles and metabolic patterns. The resulting blood patterns include:

--Increased triglycerides--An increase in triglycerides, for instance, from 90 mg/dl to 200 mg/dl in the midst of weight loss is common.

--Reduced HDL--The flood of triglycerides leads to increased degradation of HDL, thus a drop. A drop in HDL from, say, 40 mg/dl to 27 mg/dl--very frightening to people--is exceptionally common.

--Increased blood sugar--The flood of fatty acids and triglycerides results in insulin resistance, leading to higher blood sugars. It is not uncommon for someone with pre-diabetes to develop diabetic-range blood sugars, or a non-diabetic to show pre-diabetic blood sugars.

--Increased small LDL particles--Though small LDL is highly variable during weight loss. When it does happen, it's probably from the interaction of VLDL (triglycerides) with LDL particles and the reaction that overloads LDL particles with triglycerides and conversion to small LDL particles.

So why don't doctors often recognize these patterns when a patient loses weight? Because they rarely see it. Most of my colleagues are accustomed to having patients come back with weight gain, getting heavier and heavier each time. Lose weight? Impossible! So they just don't recognize weight loss effects when they see it. As followers of The Heart Scan Blog know, a frequent conversation around here is "Am I too skinny?" or "How do I stop losing weight?"

The solution: Be patient. Be patient and wait about two months after a weight plateau has been achieved. That's when the numbers "settle down" and you see marked drops in triglycerides, increases in HDL, drops in blood sugar, reductions in small LDL.

As with many things, it's all about timing.

Comments (41) -

  • chuck

    9/20/2011 2:02:02 AM |

    Isn't the form of storage fat saturated fat?  maybe this is how they came up with the theory saturated fat is bad for you.  look at all those symptoms when all that sat fat is released into the blood ;)

  • Dee Miles

    9/20/2011 3:18:39 AM |

    Wow!  I'm so glad you explained this very topic because that's exactly what happened to me recently.  For the past 8 weeks I've not had any grains or sugars and I've kept my carb level about 20g per day. I've lost 15 lbs so far.  I visited my Dr. in May (prior to any weight loss, and maybe during some gain), and the lipid panel was like this: LDL 84, HDL 76, Trig 40.  When I had another blood test in early Sept, I was shocked to see the markers worse!  LDL 122, HDL 48, Trig 88.  Boy was I disappointed in those latest numbers.  Thank you for explaining how this works while losing weight.  At one point recently I was really discouraged but now I'm really glad about the timing of the tests and your post.  My next blood draw is scheduled for 3 months out from last week, at the request of my Dr.  Maybe then the numbers will have shown some improvement.
    Also, glad to hear the you will be on the low carb cruise in May.  My hubby and I are looking forward to hearing you speak and hopefully meeting you then.

  • Donald Kjellberg

    9/20/2011 5:18:03 AM |

    I experienced this very thing. After losing serious weight from the eliminating wheat, processed, and sugary foods (1 year in total) I lost 130 pounds (this is an update from a previous post per your request Dr. Williams). When I was nearly finished I went to see my doctor. He wanted to put me on statins. I explained to him how the data does not support application to me (no evidence of heart disease) and I got the mantra about standards of practice, etc, etc. I held my ground and decided I am much happier eating dairy, eggs, grass fed beef, wild caught fish, and as much raw foods (nuts, veggies, fruits) as my body desires to treat my health parameters.

    Maintaining weight, it is easy. My BMI (23 down from 40) has remained constant for a few month now. You are right, metabolic processes definitely change. I no longer have sensations of glucose fluctuations or an uncontrolled appetite. I can only imagine the improved hormone regulation and metabolic communication going on inside my body. The symptoms from obesity, all gone. Goodbye sleep apnea, hypertension, hemorrhoids, arrhythmias, gastroinestinal disruptions, smelly body, chaffing thighs, and others not mentioned.

    The positive effects are just as dramatic, but I don't want to ramble on.

    Weight loss? What is it?
    Getting your life back!

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 12:30:01 PM |

    Excellent, excellent, excellent, Donald!

    I'm glad you got your life back and deprived Big Food and Big Pharma of revenues.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 12:31:07 PM |

    Yup, happens time and again. And your doctor will have no idea what this pink elephant is.

    Yes, see you on the cruise!

  • Buckaroo Banzai

    9/20/2011 1:45:43 PM |

    Would the same lipid response happen if one were replacing body fat with muscle and remain at roughly the same weight?

  • kathyj333

    9/20/2011 1:51:53 PM |

    When I lost a large amount of weight, I had a gallbladder attack. I had my cholesterol levels done during this time, and, yes, the LDL was high. Thanks for this post.

  • Jack Kronk

    9/20/2011 2:16:45 PM |

    Dr Davis,

    I began VLC back in Aug 2010 and transitioned until December. During that time, I went from a slightly pudgy and undefined 163 to a slim and muscular 148 (meaning that I likely lost more than 15 pounds of fat since I was gaining muscle at the same time.)

    My weight has remained stable but very graudally increased since December 2010 because I do heavy resistance weight training consistently and take a whey protein powder supplement. Currently I weigh in at about 155 and I have very little flab, if any.

    With respect to my lipid numbers, is my body still in some kind of transition phase?
    http://paleohacks.com/questions/64890/hack-jack-kronks-latest-lab-results-sept-2011

    Thanks,
    JK

  • Haggus

    9/20/2011 7:23:52 PM |

    I went through this back some 3 years ago and was put on a statin as a result.  While it seems out of fashion now with Dr. Davis, at least with those with blood sugar issues, I used oat bran to drive my LDL to 38 from 193mg/dl, thereby bettering Dr. Davis's 60/60/60 guidelines.

    Other effects: My trigs actually went down from 55 to 15mg/dl, my a1c increased from 4.8 to 4.9% and finally, I became anemic.

    Would I do it again if need be?  Yes, for me, life without the use of a statin trumps most everything else.  Thankfully, these days I still have better 60/60/60 numbers without the heavy use of oat bran which keeps my doctor and the blood bank happy.

  • Linda

    9/20/2011 9:20:57 PM |

    Dr. Davis................
    Another question regarding D3................
    Is there any benefit derived from taking D3 and glaucoma? Does it help relieve eye pressure in any way?

    [I am facing laser surgery, so I am really wondering if the D3 will help.]

  • Joe

    9/20/2011 9:31:43 PM |

    I don't think there's anything in the literature about D3 helping prevent glaucoma. There is some correlation between D3 and prevention of macular degeneration, but the jury is still out on it.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 11:05:11 PM |

    Sorry, Linda: Way out of my area of expertise.

    However, vitamin D is beneficial across so many aspects of health that it's worth doing regardless.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 11:25:13 PM |

    Hi, Jack--

    If your VAP doesn't reflect recent weight loss, consider:

    1) On the surface, your pattern looks like excessive carbohydrate intake for your genetic susceptibility (small LDL, low HDL, high triglycerides).
    2) Apo E2
    3) Another condition has entered the picture, such as kidney disease. Unlikely, thank goodness, but worth thinking about.

    Let me know what comes of this.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 11:25:38 PM |

    Yes, Buck, since the fat still needs to be mobilized into the bloodstream.

  • Ellen

    9/21/2011 2:47:16 AM |

    THANK YOU, Dr. Davis for posting this!   I've been trying to find supporting information on what happens during weight loss, because I get questions about changes in blood work from the readers of my websites.   It made sense to me that trigs would increase because of stored fat mobilization, but I searched all over pubmed and could not find a single paper to support that hypothesis.   Thanks again for confirming this!

  • Bob

    9/21/2011 3:37:37 AM |

    Dr. Davis, I posted last week about high numbers after being on a no carb, no sugar, no wheat diet for a year. You posted back that it could be weight loss and not to worry. I just heard back from two different doctors who looked at my last two VAP tests and they both suggested that I start statins as soon as possible. They are both doctors who specialize in lipids and also believe in not eating carbs sugar etc. They both want me to take a NMR test which would give them a clearer picture of what is going on. I have lost 25 lbs. over the last year. Do you think that after a year of losing weight it would still have an effect on my numbers? They are worried about apo B which I guess is why they want to see NMR. I don't mind taking the statin if I really need it but I am worried that if my apoB is high because of weight loss I am making a big mistake because once I start there will be reason to be taken off of them. I am also worried that if I don't take the statin now, if I wait another 6 months for another test, I am risking my health. I am 59 with two young children.
    Thanks

  • Jack Kronk

    9/21/2011 2:55:39 PM |

    ApoE2? I thought I was more in the running for ApoE4. Isn't 4 the one where it gets a bit dicey with dietary fats?

    Also, kidney disease? what makes you say that. I have had 7 kidney stones (all calcium oxalate. all "pre paleo").  I have several hypotheses about why I don't get them anymore, but my best guess is due to the increase in VitK2, since K2 sort of 'directs' where calcium goes. So I figured my kidneys were much happier with my new diet than with my SAD.

    As for excessive carbohydrate intake, yah that may be true, but I think you make an important reference about genetic susceptibility, as many people can do just fine with my carb intake as it does not produce these numbers for them.

    We have some interesting things brewing over there on PaleoHacks about what might be affecting my lipids. Travis Culp is kind of leading the charge right now and Dr K is in the mix as well.

    http://paleohacks.com/questions/66154/medium-chain-fatty-acids-appear-to-raise-vldl-triglycerides

    Thanks for your thoughts Doc.

    -JK

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/21/2011 9:36:04 PM |

    Hi, Jack--

    If the 150 grams carbohydrates mentioned in the blog post was referring to your intake, then that is definitely at least part, if not all. of the underlying cause.

    Apo E2 would serve to exaggerate this effect, mostly by way of delayed clearance of postprandial lipoproteins. This could be apo E4 but it would be a very atypical pattern, since there are low HDL/high triglycerides.

    Kidney stones in and of themselves would be insufficient; it would have to involve overt kidney dysfunction.

    Anyway, please let me know what comes of this.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/21/2011 9:40:23 PM |

    Hi, Bob--

    It's not so much the period of time required to lose the weight, but whether the blood was drawn too soon (less than 2 months) after weight plateaued. If drawn too soon, it will yield confusing or alarming numbers to the weight loss-uninitiated.

    Getting an NMR is always a good idea, since it yields the most confident value, LDL particle number.

    Have you gotten a heart scan? Remember, it's more about coronary plaque than about calculated LDL or apo B.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/21/2011 9:42:40 PM |

    Hi, Ellen--

    Surprising, isn't it? Perhaps it's something we should do!

    Anyway, it is critical to recognize this, else people get mad and throw things and think that the diet is destructive when, in reality, it works like crazy--if you know when to draw the blood sample.

  • Bob

    9/21/2011 10:28:03 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
    I had a heart scan thanks to your blog about 4 years ago with a score of zero. At the time I was on Lipitor following low carb diet but with little sat. fat. I was mostly eating skinless chicken, salmon with mayo. Now I am on high sat. fat diet. Beef and more beef. My weight is still dropping. I started at 186 and now I am 159. I have no idea when my weight will plateau. I feel I am in a bad position as two lipid doctors feel I should be on statins now yet I believe the numbers are not accurate because of the weight loss. If I wait for weight loss to stop I may be putting myself at risk but I don't want to go on statins if not necessary.
    Tomorrow I am planning on the NMR test.
    Thanks

  • Gene K

    9/22/2011 2:25:42 AM |

    Since I consistently get a server error trying to post this comment to the small LDL post, I am posting it here.

    Dr Davis,

    Do you think at some point you will drop the TYP target for LDL to be 700 or less in favour of a target amount or percentage of small LDL?

    Thank you.

  • Kat

    9/22/2011 8:38:16 PM |

    I've got to show this article to my mom. My mom has struggled with her weight for a long time. Her doctor told her she would give her 6 months to try and improve her numbers through diet and exercise. If they didn't go down she would have to start taking statins which my mom did not want to do. My mom did manage to lose a considerable amount of weight (about 50 pounds) in that 6 months period. She went to see her doctor, had a lipid panel done and the doc said her lipid panel numbers were worst than before. The doctor blamed her for not eating the right stuff  and said she needed to start statins now or die. It really scared my mom and she got frustrated. She ended up taking the statins because she didn't feel she had a choice and reverted back to her old lifestyle. Maybe if she knew this information she wouldn't have been so discouraged.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/23/2011 12:35:53 AM |

    Oh, boy, Kat. It sounds like this is precisely what happened.

    I truly find it incredible that weight loss for my colleagues is such an uncommon thing that they don't even recognize it.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/23/2011 12:37:46 AM |

    Hi, Gene--

    Yes, I am trending in that direction. However, it remains unclear what the safe threshold is for LDL particle number or apo B when small LDL is minimized or eliminated. BIG question with no current answer.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/23/2011 12:47:36 AM |

    Hi, Bob--

    Be careful: Even the NMR is subject to the confusing and transient changes that occur during weight loss. In fact, you can observe these effects in ALL lipoprotein testing techniques.

    I know of no way to subtract the effect of weight loss except to be patient and wait for weight to plateau.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/23/2011 12:49:06 AM |

    Donald--

    I loved your comment so much I'd like to make it the focus of a blog post!

  • Tom

    9/24/2011 3:17:32 PM |

    I' ve cut out wheat from my diet and my wheat belly has disappeared. Unfortunately there is still fat around the hips/thighs. Still, I'm very pleased. Thanks!

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/25/2011 12:08:12 AM |

    Great, Tom!

    Just be patient. It tends to come with time.

  • Suze

    10/2/2011 1:31:41 PM |

    This post brought tears to my eyes. Thank you SO VERY MUCH for posting this. I have been going crazy trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
    I went to see my doc in mid-June, who put me on lovastatin (added to blood pressure meds, Ambien, and Prilosec). He had done labs and was unhappy with my cholesterol.
    I went on low carb in early June, about a week before the doc visit. I have done low carb before and knew it would drop my cholesterol, but went along for now. For 6 weeks all was fine and I lost nearly 20 pounds. Started feeling better - was able to get off Ambien and sleep better. Was able to stop the Prilosec also (my GERD disappeared). Because I was trying to get into ketosis to burn fat, I was monitoring my blood sugar. At about 6 weeks into it, I hit a stall and have had to fight like heck to keep losing any weight. But the worst part (for me) was my glucose level. Inexplicably, my fasting glucose crept up just over 100 and stayed there most days. I was horrified - I was not eating any excess sugars, in fact, trying to stay under 20-30 carbs a day. I am a nurse and I know what a fasting glucose over 100 will get me diagnosed with - diabetes. My goal is to get OFF all meds, not get labeled with diabetes and put on more of them. To top it off, my doc wanted new labs after 6 weeks on lovastatin, and I refuse to go until I figured out what the heck was going on with my glucose and fixed the problem. My doc is nice, but I highly doubt he is evolved enough to listen to this argument. He still subscribes to the high cholesterol theory of heart disease, after all.
    I Googled my head off and tried to figure it out. Lots of theories out there. I tried all kinds of supplements supposed to regulate your glucose, and experimented with timing of food and activity. Even stranger, my glucose would RISE after exercise in the morning (still fasting!), but lower if done in the afternoon. I thought maybe I wasn't eating enough carbs and my liver was kicking out glycogen during the night. The day I came home from work after a just-over-100 fasting that morning and checked my glucose and it was 90 (!) 4 hours after lunch, I wanted to go get the damn labs done, but they were closed.
    I knew blood pressure, cholesterol levels and glucose are all tied together, but it had not occurred to me that losing weight mobilized fats into the bloodstream and may be behind my glucose being a pain. Makes me wonder what the lovastatin did for the 60 days I was on it, lol. But my dilemma is that to find out, if I go with an elevated glucose, I will be hosed. :-( So I guess I'll go find a home cholesterol kit and see, and be patient on the glucose issue.
    I also found some interesting info on low stomach acid - I had been on Tums, Zantac and then Prilosec for some time, and I found my glucose issues started around the time I *stopped* taking that stuff... More food for thought.
    Anyway, thank you so much for posting this - at least I am not in a panic at the moment. I am not done yet, though - I still have about 45-50 pounds to go. I am not sure I can hold off the labs that long. I plan to keep an eye on my fasting (97 this morning) and when it's well under 100 will try to get the damn labs done.

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/2/2011 2:32:28 PM |

    That's great, Suze!

    Yes, we have to be properly armed against our doctors!

  • Kelly

    10/9/2011 1:09:15 PM |

    What defines a weight plateau? I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes while pregnant. I left the hospital 20 pounds lighter than I was pre-pregnancy thanks to a lower-carb diet. Over the next 6 months, I lost an additional 25-30 pounds. I'm not losing weight drastically any longer -- I'm now well within the "normal" range for my BMI. However I am still dropping a pound or two every month or so (still breastfeeding). When I tested my blood sugar about 4 months ago, my fasting number was 104. I'm now 11 months postpartum, so its been about 5 months of very gradual weight loss. Would this still change my numbers because I'm technically still losing weight?

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/9/2011 10:59:32 PM |

    Probably not, Kelly.

    I don't know why, but weight loss that has "decelerated" to this degree seems to not be associated with distortion of metabolic markers. It doesn't mean that continued weight loss won't yield further improvement, but that the current numbers are indeed true.

  • DanD

    10/12/2011 4:48:46 PM |

    Donald, congratulations on these tremendous improvements.  Your experience makes me think that I can do the same if I keep at it.

  • Wanda E

    10/18/2011 1:59:06 PM |

    Dr. Davis, I really appreciate all the work you put into the Wheat Belly book.  It is an eye opener.  I have a question.  My husband is diabetic (2 shots per day) also he has Mysenthia Gravis.  Do you have any information regarding Mysenthia Gravis.  Will  eliminating wheat help get rid of or lessen the effects of this disease.  My husband and I are deleting the wheat and i already feel better.  Thank you.

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/19/2011 1:28:44 AM |

    Thanks. Wanda.

    There are, unfortunately, no formal clinical observations that combine wheat/gluten elimination with markers for myasthenia gravis.

    On the most anecdotal level, I have one patient with myasthenia gravis who tells me that her symptoms are substantially improved, though not entirely relieved, with wheat elimination. This seems to be true of nearly all neurologic phenomena that do not have wheat as their original cause: at least partial improvement.

    It is certainly worth trying for this as well as a host of other reasons.

  • Jo

    10/22/2011 2:25:09 AM |

    Thank you for posting this. I think I'm going through this right now. I've lost 63 lbs since being diagnosed with DM last Nov and my A1C is down to 5.5 from over 13.3.  My weight loss has slowed to about 5 lbs per month now and I have low thyroid symptoms but all my doctor cares about is putting me on statins. I'm seeing a new doc next month to try to get more than a TSH test but I know he's going to be concerned about my lipid profile, too. I'm going to ask for either a VAP or NMR test. I don't know how bad these numbers really are but they made the last doctor flip out. I keep under 30 carbs per day, am off all wheat now, and walk at least a mile a day. Here are the most recent numbers and the change from 8 months ago:
    Total: 338 (+58)
    Trigs: 138 (-39)
    HDL: 50 (+10)
    VLDL: 35 (+4)
    LDL: 253 (+44)
    %HDL: 15 (+1)
    Chol:HDL Ratio: 7 (no change)

    I'm not sure what to do in the meantime while I wait for the next appointment, other than be patient, but I'm going to print this post out, anyway.

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/22/2011 12:42:39 PM |

    Very nice result on your weight and diabetes, Jo!

    It looks like you have a genetically-determined pattern, either familial heterozygous hypercholesterolemia and/or apo E4. Sadly, in this situation, diet efforts cannot fully disable the impaired handling of fats that arises from these genetic variants. Statins in this case may not be a bad idea. You may be the occasional exception. Statins are overused and abused, but your situation is one in which they may be appropriate.

  • Suze

    10/23/2011 3:34:55 PM |

    Well, I finally went to get the labs done, and it's a mixed result. After 4 months on low carb and nearly wheat-free:
    cholesterol - 368 to 282 (-86)
    HDL - 40 to 61 (+21 :-D)
    LDL - 287 to 185 (-102)
    ratio - 9.2 to 4.6 (cut in half!)
    VLDL - 41 to 36 (-5)
    triglycerides - 207 to 179 (-28)
    Pretty good improvement in 4 months, I think. The first two months I was on lovastatin, and the last two months, all diet/exercise. I really do not want to go back on statins.
    However, my fasting glucose was 104, despite my efforts to get it lower before getting labs. Now I will have to argue with my doc, I am sure. I got an A1c and it was 5.2, which is totally normal, so at least I am armed with something!!!
    Suze

  • Suze

    10/23/2011 4:04:17 PM |

    P.S. - I have also lost almost 30 pounds!
    And - I just ordered Wheat Belly to read on my Nook. I can't wait! I think you are SO right about all of this!

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/23/2011 11:46:11 PM |

    Wow, Suze!

    Stupendous progress! Keep going.

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