Heart Scan Curiosities #8: Fat heart

Here's a curious incidental finding on a heart scan: an unusual fat accumulation around the heart.



The arrows point to an unusually large accumulation of fat tissue on either side of the heart. This man was mildly but not excessively overweight at 5 ft 10 inches and 201 lbs.

I know of no specific implications of this curiosity. It makes me wonder if he was very obese at one time and has since lost the weight.

Chocolate and blood pressure

A recent very detailed and clean study on the effects of a small serving of dark chocolate on blood pressure was just published in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

I was going to do a little Blogging on this interesting study but I read the Fanatic Cook's wonderfully insightful comments. I'd direct you to her discussion, instead: A small daily dose of dark chocalate lowers blood pressure at http://fanaticcook.blogspot.com/. I couldn't have said it any better.

By the way, the authors of the study had no financial ties to the chocolate or cocoa industry. Refreshing.

Does prevention save money?

Prevention and reversal of heart disease are undoubtedly preferable to the current crash and repair model currently followed by doctors and hospital, the model that has created an enormous medical device industry to support it.

But does it save money? This debate often boils down to a metric of "lives saved per $100,000". Thus, the statin drugs (of course) have been subjected to such analyses and have been shown to be "cost-effective."

But how does a powerful heart disease prevention and reversal program like Track Your Plaque compare to the current crash and repair procedural approach to heart disease? This is a very difficult analysis, one that is subject to enormous variation, depending on the population studied and the prevalence of disease, the local practice habits (e.g., in the northwest Cleveland suburb of Lorain, virtually everybody going to the hospital for any heart problem gets one or several heart catheterizations), and other factors.

There's also the difficulty of what should constitute a prevention program. Is it like that used in the COURAGE Trial of "optimal medical therapy" that included nitroglycerin, aspirin, a beta blocker, and statin drug (which we regard as a laughably silly approach), or one like Track Your Plaque in which we try to correct the causes of heart disease, not just palliate (BandAid) them? Costs vary. The "optimal medical therapy" is very costly due to its reliance on medications to treat symptoms. Our program is somewhat costly because of the reliance on a CT heart scan and lipoprotein analysis (though, in the long perspective, our costs are modest).

We asked this question and came up with a lengthy analysis. Bottom line: Following the Track Your Plaque program saves enormous sums of money. Because of the complexity of the analysis, which is theoretical and not a real-world test, we confined our analysis to men in the 40-59 year old age group. If this group alone were to subscribe to a intensive but rational program of prevention like Track Your Plaque, over $20 billion dollars per year would be saved.

If the analysis were extended to women of all ages and men older than 59, the numbers would balloon to many more tens of billions of dollars. Such a savings wouldn't cure the healthcare system's growing financial crisis, but it sure would be a big help. Sort of like converting to a hydrid car--you don't eliminate the need for gas, but you'll save a lot in fuel costs.

The Track Your Plaque approach makes sense because it is, bar none, the most powerful approach to gaining hold of heart disease risk available. But it also makes sense from a financial standpoint. Now, if we can only convince the hospitals, the $30 million annual salary device manufacturer CEO, and my procedure-crazy colleagues that this way makes more sense.

Watch for our analysis on an upcoming Track Your Plaque Special Report.

Where should fiber come from?

Ray had the usual protuberant belly overhanging his beltline of someone who was over-reliant on processed starches, particularly wheat.

After all, he ran a sandwich bakery. He sheepishly admitted that he ate the products of his own production line every day while at work, even bringing a few sandwiches home.

At 5 ft 10 inches, 201 lbs, he wasn't terribly overweight, but all the excess was in his beltline. He had the lipoproteins to match: HDL 38 mg/dl, triglycerides 180 mg/dl, 83% of all LDL particles were small, excess VLDL and IDL. Blood pressure: 140/88. Blood sugar: 112 mg/dl.

With a CT heart scan score of 698, Ray had some work to do.

Among the strategies we discussed was a need to dramatically reduce, perhaps eliminate, wheat products and other high-glycemic index foods.

"You've got to be kidding me!" Besides the inconsistency with his business, he was puzzled on what foods were edible for his pattern. We discussed how he could easily replace his reliance on wheat and breads with more vegetables, more fruits, more lean proteins, and more healthy oils.

"But I won't get any fiber!" he declared. That was why he tried to choose whole wheat bread for his sandwiches.

This is a common concern when we discuss how grains, particuarly wheat, need to be sharply reduced. In the most recent edition of his Paleo Diet Newsletter, Dr. Loren Cordain has laid out a wonderful graph that beautifully illustrates the issue:




(From The Paleo Diet Newsletter at http://www.thepaleodiet.com/newsletter/back_issues.shtml)


In other words, reducing or eliminating "fiber-rich" grains and replacing their calories dramatically increases fiber content of your diet.

For Ray, whose livelihood depends on promoting and perpetuating the use of wheat breads, it will be tough to keep him on the right track. My prediction: the results he will see will be substantial and it will become difficult to return to eating his own products.

There's no doubt that this concept can be economically disruptive for many people, including Ray. It's a tough situation we've created: a huge industrial complex based on growing grains and wheat, processing it into breakfast cereals, bagels, pretzels, crackers, and sandwiches. But it has also contributed to the epidemic of obesity and the patterns that people like Ray have.

But the startling fact remains: If replaced with vegetables and fruits, reducing grains increases the fiber content of your diet, and not jsut a little bit, but enormously. If green peppers and spinach had brand names like "Fiber One" and "Smart Start" along with flashy boxes, then maybe it would be an easier concept to grasp.

To sign up for Dr. Cordain's wonderfully informative newsletter, go to http://www.thepaleodiet.com/newsletter/back_issues.shtml.

The Detection Gap

You've heard of the Generation Gap, the Income Gap, the Technology Gap, the Gender Gap, and the Achievement Gap.

How about the Detection Gap?

Haven't heard of it? That's the gap between coronary heart disease detected by conventional methods widely practiced in the community and the real prevalence of the disease.

The standard approach to coronary heart disease detection is a relatively simple formula. One of three things are sought:

1) Symptoms of heart disease like chest pain or breathlessness.
2) An abnormal EKG or abnormal stress test.
3) A catastrophe like heart attack or sudden cardiac death.

By this equation, the American Heart Association (AHA) estimates that 36% of American men and women have coronary disease.

However, we say the number is more like 48%. That's the number we arrive at when we ask: How many men and women have CT heart scan scores above zero?

The difference is the Detection Gap. Though only around 12%, it amounts to millions of people. The problem is that, by the conventional approach to detection of heart disease, you often don't know you have it until you're lying on a hospital gurney being wheeled off to a major procedure. Or your friends, family or neighbors find your body.

If heart disease is detected by a CT heart scan, it tends to be early, before catastrophe strikes. You can use tools like niacin, vitamin D, flaxseed, etc., all the components of the Track Your Plaque approach.

If heart disease is detected by waiting for the appearance of symptoms, then a stress test (usually nuclear) is followed by a heart catheterization, stents, bypass, etc. So there's more than a Detection Gap. There's also a difference in the sorts of therapies chosen. There's certainly a difference in cost.

In my view, there is no rational reason not to close the Detection Gap. While CT heart scan scores aren't perfect, they're damn close. The Detection Gap could be closed to around 2%. We'd also save billions of dollars.

Apoprotein B on VAP

We've just received an announcement that, if your Vertical Auto Profile lipoprotein test (Atherotech) is provided through the national Quest laboratories (a large national laboratory company), they will include an apoprotein B.

This represents an improvement over the previous "direct LDL," a measured LDL cholesterol. Recall that standard lipid panels obtained in hospitals and doctors' offices is a calculated LDL, based on the 40-some year old Friedewald calculation. In my view, the Friedewald calculated LDL is a dinosaur that is virtually useless and needs to be retired.

Direct, or measured, LDL is a slight improvement. It removes some of the inaccuracy introduced by the assumptions built into the calculated value.

Apoprotein B (also called apoprotein B100) is yet another improvement. Apo B's have been available for years, but was not provided on the VAP. The Atherotech people have done a good job of making VAP more broadly available through "drawing stations" and proponents like Life Extension. Adding an ApoB is a favorable development, since it incorporates the risk of other ApoB-containing particles, like VLDL, IDL, and Lp(a). Several studies like the Quebec Cardiovascular Study have shown that ApoB is a superior predictor of heart disease compared to calculated LDL.

I still believe that the gold standard for assessing risk from an LDL standpoint is the LDL particle number along with the other measures provided by the NMR assay (Liposcience). However, the addition of the ApoB to VAP adds greater confidence to the measures provided by this technique. Those of you who rely on the VAP assay provided by Quest for your Track Your Plaque program for control of CT heart scan scores therefore have access to this improved panel.

Estrogens and CT heart scan scores

A recent study from the Women's Health Initiative (WHI), the large study that originally showed no reduction in heart attack with use of estrogens in postmenopausal females, has just published a new study.

In this new effort, women who took Premarin (horse estogens) had up to 61% lower CT heart scan scores. This new study was confined to the women from the original WHI study who had entered the study between the ages of 50-59 years (average 55 years old), since this was the significant subgroup of women who actually showed a reduction in heart attack risk, whereas other groups showed no benefit or a slightly increased risk.

For a full discussion of this fascinating result, see the Track Your Plaque report, Can estrogen reduce CT heart scan scores? at http://cureality.com/library/fl_06-017estrogen.asp. (This report is open to both Track Your Plaque Members and non-Members.)

I truly wish that the issues surrounding female hormone replacement were clearer. This new perspective adds just another interesting twist on a strategy that too many people, in my view, dismissed too readily with the initial WHI results.

To add to an already confusing situation, the WHI study was sponsored by Wyeth Pharmaceuticals, the maker of Premarin, and many of the investigators participating in the study obtained financial compensation from Wyeth. On the one hand, we have to give credit to the company and the investigators for publishing the initial study that panned the effects of Premarin. On the other hand, it makes any positive data somewhat suspect, particularly since there is a far less costly and probably superior preparation called human estrogens.

Incidentally, Wyeth is also behind the maddening FDA petition to prevent "compounding" pharmacies from dispensing human hormones like estrogen unless made by a drug manufacturer. They hide behind claims of concerns over safety. Nonsense. This is pure profiteering and protection of their enormously profitable franchise and has nothing to do with public safety. If there were genuine concerns that the compounding pharmacies, around for decades with an excellent reputation, pose safety issues, why not just lobby for improved oversite?

If only we had data like WHI that used human estrogens and human progesterone. I suspect that we'd see bigger, better effects with less of the ill effects peculiar to the cross-species use of Premarin and the synethetic progestin, Provera.

The wheat-free life

"There's nothing else I can do with my diet," declared Whitney, a 53-year old university faculty member.

"I don't eat meat. I never eat fried foods. I can't remember the last time I used butter. My idea of having a treat is a handful of blueberries. What else can I do?"

Whitney was clearly frustrated. With a CT heart scan score of 264, she was worried that trouble was just around the corner. Her lipoprotein panel had demonstrated a severe small LDL pattern, with 70% of all LDL particles in the small category. HDL was also low at 41 mg/dl.

"What did you eat for breakfast?" I asked.

"Same as always: Either Fiber One cereal or Shredded Wheat. No sugar, just skim milk. Sometimes I have some orange juice, fresh-squeezed of course."

"How about lunch?"

"If I brown-bag it, I'll usually have a reduced-fat turkey breast sandwich on whole grain bread. About once a week, I'll have a whole wheat bagel--no cream cheese, of course."

"Dinner?"

"Sometimes I have chicken--skinless--with a vegetable, corn, or salad. I love pasta, but I always use whole wheat."

"How about snacks?"

"I try not to snack. But, when I'm desperate, I usually grab some Triscuits or pretzels."

The problem with Whitney's diet was clear: Too many sugar-equivalents, otherwise known as wheat. I suggested that her diet was far too heavily laden with wheat products. She seemed skeptical. "But this is as low-fat as I can get! Now you're going to take away wheat?"



What happens when you eliminate wheat from your diet?

Several predictable, consistent changes can be observed:


--HDL cholesterol goes up.

--Triglycerides go down.

--Small LDL particles are reduced.

--LDL cholesterol drops (the amount dropped depends on the proportion of small LDL pattern)

--Blood sugar drops.

--Blood pressure drops.

--C-reactive protein (an index of imperceptible inflammation) drops.


In addition to these measurable changes, several perceptible improvements often develop: more energy, less afternoon "slump," better sleep, sometimes less rashes.

Since Whitney was skeptical, I suggested a simple 4 week "experiment": Eliminate wheat products entirely for 4 weeks and see for herself what happens. I also warned her that, while I believe that elimination of wheat is a great strategy, she could negate the benefits by indulging in candy, soft drinks, and other junk products. It would therefore be necessary to maintain an otherwise healthy diet.

So Whitney gave it a try for 4 weeks. To make up for the dropped calories, she increased her reliance on vegetables, fruits, lean proteins, nuts, seeds, and healthy oils.

After losing 6 lbs over the 4 weeks without otherwise trying, she was convinced. She was further convinced when we reassessed her laboratory work: HDL went up 10 mg/dl; triglycerides down 120 mg/dl; blood sugar dropped from 112 mg/dl (pre-diabetic) to 95 mg/dl (normal). Several months later, we checked her lipoproteins. Small LDL had dropped to around 30% of total LDL--a big improvement.

It's contrary to conventional wisdom. It's counter to the USDA Food Pyramid. It's certainly not what the American Heart Association says. It could potentially disrupt the economics and politics of the enormously powerful food industry.

But, more often than not, the results are impressive to phenomenal.

Death of a $7 billion industry

Vitamin D has taken its place as a crucial ingredient for coronary plaque control and control of CT heart scan scores.

Vitamin D replacement is also crucial for bone health, particularly the prevention of osteoporosis. But conversations about vitamin D replacement to true healthy levels is notably absent from the conversation on treatment and prevention of osteoporosis. Yes, you will find a small dose of vitamin D in calcium tablets and in multivitamins. Those of us who check blood levels of 25-OH-vitamin D3 in patients will tell you: They don't work. These are unabsorbable forms of vitamin D and at trivial doses. There was an attempt to give this issue a little cursory attention when a small dose of vitamin D was added to Fosamax (Fosamax D).

There are an estimated 50 million Americans with various degrees of osteoporosis. It's numbers like this that make the drug manufacturers salivate. Osteoporosis treatment is also chronic. This is among the holy grails of the drug industry: developing agents for widespread ailments that require long-term treatment that extends over years. That's a lot more profitable than 10 days of antibiotics that are over and done with in one treament course.

The osteoporosis market now stands at $7 billion per year and is expected to grow 6-7% per year, according to industry analysts. Drugs like Fosamax, Evista, and Actonel will eventually be replaced by Boniva, Eclasta, and bazedoxifene, and later by AMG-172 and balicatib. Monthly costs for these drugs can be $70 or more per month, sometimes several hundred dollars. (Experience has shown that the introduction of new drugs does not necessarily mean that other drugs will drop in price.)

Here's a clinical trial I'd like to see performed: Vitamin D restored to healthy levels of 50-100 ng/ml over an extended period and compared to a group treated with placebo. My prediction is that there will be dramatic differences in bone density. (Small studies have been performed, but no large, long-term trials of the sort that would yield real firepower.) Or, how about vitamin D to true therapeutic levels over 5 years compared head-to-head with one of the drugs. My prediction: little difference.

Vitamin D also provides an enormous panel of health benefits beyond restoration of bone density, like rise in HDL, drop in triglycerides, facilitation of control over CT heart scan scores, drop in fracture risk, drop in blood pressure and C-reactive protein, reduction in risk for colon, prostate, and breast cancer. None of the drugs can hope to provide any of these effects, except a drop in fracture risk.

Vitamin D usually costs around $2 per month. I doubt that such trials will be performed. If I were a manufacturer of osteoporosis drugs and my career success was dependent on the increasing revenues of these drugs, I would be quaking in my shoes, hoping that the public does not learn what a powerful tool good old vitamin D is. But if you are an individual just looking for health tools, vitamin D is, in my view, amongst the most powerful natural, nutritional tools you have available with outsized health benefits.

Lose weight and HDL goes . . . down

Steve started with a miserable HDL cholesterol of 27 mg/dl. As expected, the low HDL was associated with all its evil friends: small LDL, deficiency of healthy, large HDL, high triglycerides, VLDL, and a pre-diabetic blood sugar.

Steve committed to a strict diet of reduced processed carbohydrates like wheat products, reduced meat and saturated fats. He relied on vegetables, fruit, lean proteins, and healthy oils. Over a 6 month period, he lost an impressive 39 lbs. He proclaimed that he hadn't felt this good in 30 years.

We rechecked his HDL: 25 mg/dl.

"I don't get it!" Steve declared, understandably.

There's a curious phenomenon with HDL. If you lose weight, HDL goes up--but not right away. Steve had lost a substantial quantity of weight and was continuing to lose weight when the blood work was obtained. While HDL does indeed rise with weight loss, it doesn't do so immediately. In fact, in the first two or so months after significant weight lost, HDL goes down.

Why? I don't really have an explanation, but it is a very consistent effect.

Losing weight towards ideal weight is truly an effective strategy for raising HDL. But we need to be patient. If you've lost many pounds like Steve did, then waiting at least two months after weight has stabilized may be necessary to fully gauge the effect on raising HDL.
What is this wacky thing called "weight loss"?

What is this wacky thing called "weight loss"?

I've discussed this before, but it has proven such an (encouragingly!) frequent issue that I thought it was worth discussing once again.

What happens when you lose weight?

The process of weight loss is characterized by multiple shifts in metabolic patterns that can be confusing. To the uninitiated eye, weight loss can look like a disastrous distortion in metabolism. The naive doctor on seeing your lab values, for instance, might insist you take a statin drug, a fibrate like Tricor (to reduce triglycerides or increase HDL), or simply berate you for your bad health habits--when it's actually a good thing you've accomplished.

So when you lose weight, say, 30 pounds in 3 months, what have you accomplished?

Energy stored as fat, especially from visceral fat stores, is mobilized into the bloodstream. It floods the bloodstream as fatty acids and triglycerides. These fatty acids and triglycerides don't occur in isolation, but interact with other particles and metabolic patterns. The resulting blood patterns include:

--Increased triglycerides--An increase in triglycerides, for instance, from 90 mg/dl to 200 mg/dl in the midst of weight loss is common.

--Reduced HDL--The flood of triglycerides leads to increased degradation of HDL, thus a drop. A drop in HDL from, say, 40 mg/dl to 27 mg/dl--very frightening to people--is exceptionally common.

--Increased blood sugar--The flood of fatty acids and triglycerides results in insulin resistance, leading to higher blood sugars. It is not uncommon for someone with pre-diabetes to develop diabetic-range blood sugars, or a non-diabetic to show pre-diabetic blood sugars.

--Increased small LDL particles--Though small LDL is highly variable during weight loss. When it does happen, it's probably from the interaction of VLDL (triglycerides) with LDL particles and the reaction that overloads LDL particles with triglycerides and conversion to small LDL particles.

So why don't doctors often recognize these patterns when a patient loses weight? Because they rarely see it. Most of my colleagues are accustomed to having patients come back with weight gain, getting heavier and heavier each time. Lose weight? Impossible! So they just don't recognize weight loss effects when they see it. As followers of The Heart Scan Blog know, a frequent conversation around here is "Am I too skinny?" or "How do I stop losing weight?"

The solution: Be patient. Be patient and wait about two months after a weight plateau has been achieved. That's when the numbers "settle down" and you see marked drops in triglycerides, increases in HDL, drops in blood sugar, reductions in small LDL.

As with many things, it's all about timing.

Comments (41) -

  • chuck

    9/20/2011 2:02:02 AM |

    Isn't the form of storage fat saturated fat?  maybe this is how they came up with the theory saturated fat is bad for you.  look at all those symptoms when all that sat fat is released into the blood ;)

  • Dee Miles

    9/20/2011 3:18:39 AM |

    Wow!  I'm so glad you explained this very topic because that's exactly what happened to me recently.  For the past 8 weeks I've not had any grains or sugars and I've kept my carb level about 20g per day. I've lost 15 lbs so far.  I visited my Dr. in May (prior to any weight loss, and maybe during some gain), and the lipid panel was like this: LDL 84, HDL 76, Trig 40.  When I had another blood test in early Sept, I was shocked to see the markers worse!  LDL 122, HDL 48, Trig 88.  Boy was I disappointed in those latest numbers.  Thank you for explaining how this works while losing weight.  At one point recently I was really discouraged but now I'm really glad about the timing of the tests and your post.  My next blood draw is scheduled for 3 months out from last week, at the request of my Dr.  Maybe then the numbers will have shown some improvement.
    Also, glad to hear the you will be on the low carb cruise in May.  My hubby and I are looking forward to hearing you speak and hopefully meeting you then.

  • Donald Kjellberg

    9/20/2011 5:18:03 AM |

    I experienced this very thing. After losing serious weight from the eliminating wheat, processed, and sugary foods (1 year in total) I lost 130 pounds (this is an update from a previous post per your request Dr. Williams). When I was nearly finished I went to see my doctor. He wanted to put me on statins. I explained to him how the data does not support application to me (no evidence of heart disease) and I got the mantra about standards of practice, etc, etc. I held my ground and decided I am much happier eating dairy, eggs, grass fed beef, wild caught fish, and as much raw foods (nuts, veggies, fruits) as my body desires to treat my health parameters.

    Maintaining weight, it is easy. My BMI (23 down from 40) has remained constant for a few month now. You are right, metabolic processes definitely change. I no longer have sensations of glucose fluctuations or an uncontrolled appetite. I can only imagine the improved hormone regulation and metabolic communication going on inside my body. The symptoms from obesity, all gone. Goodbye sleep apnea, hypertension, hemorrhoids, arrhythmias, gastroinestinal disruptions, smelly body, chaffing thighs, and others not mentioned.

    The positive effects are just as dramatic, but I don't want to ramble on.

    Weight loss? What is it?
    Getting your life back!

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 12:30:01 PM |

    Excellent, excellent, excellent, Donald!

    I'm glad you got your life back and deprived Big Food and Big Pharma of revenues.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 12:31:07 PM |

    Yup, happens time and again. And your doctor will have no idea what this pink elephant is.

    Yes, see you on the cruise!

  • Buckaroo Banzai

    9/20/2011 1:45:43 PM |

    Would the same lipid response happen if one were replacing body fat with muscle and remain at roughly the same weight?

  • kathyj333

    9/20/2011 1:51:53 PM |

    When I lost a large amount of weight, I had a gallbladder attack. I had my cholesterol levels done during this time, and, yes, the LDL was high. Thanks for this post.

  • Jack Kronk

    9/20/2011 2:16:45 PM |

    Dr Davis,

    I began VLC back in Aug 2010 and transitioned until December. During that time, I went from a slightly pudgy and undefined 163 to a slim and muscular 148 (meaning that I likely lost more than 15 pounds of fat since I was gaining muscle at the same time.)

    My weight has remained stable but very graudally increased since December 2010 because I do heavy resistance weight training consistently and take a whey protein powder supplement. Currently I weigh in at about 155 and I have very little flab, if any.

    With respect to my lipid numbers, is my body still in some kind of transition phase?
    http://paleohacks.com/questions/64890/hack-jack-kronks-latest-lab-results-sept-2011

    Thanks,
    JK

  • Haggus

    9/20/2011 7:23:52 PM |

    I went through this back some 3 years ago and was put on a statin as a result.  While it seems out of fashion now with Dr. Davis, at least with those with blood sugar issues, I used oat bran to drive my LDL to 38 from 193mg/dl, thereby bettering Dr. Davis's 60/60/60 guidelines.

    Other effects: My trigs actually went down from 55 to 15mg/dl, my a1c increased from 4.8 to 4.9% and finally, I became anemic.

    Would I do it again if need be?  Yes, for me, life without the use of a statin trumps most everything else.  Thankfully, these days I still have better 60/60/60 numbers without the heavy use of oat bran which keeps my doctor and the blood bank happy.

  • Linda

    9/20/2011 9:20:57 PM |

    Dr. Davis................
    Another question regarding D3................
    Is there any benefit derived from taking D3 and glaucoma? Does it help relieve eye pressure in any way?

    [I am facing laser surgery, so I am really wondering if the D3 will help.]

  • Joe

    9/20/2011 9:31:43 PM |

    I don't think there's anything in the literature about D3 helping prevent glaucoma. There is some correlation between D3 and prevention of macular degeneration, but the jury is still out on it.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 11:05:11 PM |

    Sorry, Linda: Way out of my area of expertise.

    However, vitamin D is beneficial across so many aspects of health that it's worth doing regardless.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 11:25:13 PM |

    Hi, Jack--

    If your VAP doesn't reflect recent weight loss, consider:

    1) On the surface, your pattern looks like excessive carbohydrate intake for your genetic susceptibility (small LDL, low HDL, high triglycerides).
    2) Apo E2
    3) Another condition has entered the picture, such as kidney disease. Unlikely, thank goodness, but worth thinking about.

    Let me know what comes of this.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/20/2011 11:25:38 PM |

    Yes, Buck, since the fat still needs to be mobilized into the bloodstream.

  • Ellen

    9/21/2011 2:47:16 AM |

    THANK YOU, Dr. Davis for posting this!   I've been trying to find supporting information on what happens during weight loss, because I get questions about changes in blood work from the readers of my websites.   It made sense to me that trigs would increase because of stored fat mobilization, but I searched all over pubmed and could not find a single paper to support that hypothesis.   Thanks again for confirming this!

  • Bob

    9/21/2011 3:37:37 AM |

    Dr. Davis, I posted last week about high numbers after being on a no carb, no sugar, no wheat diet for a year. You posted back that it could be weight loss and not to worry. I just heard back from two different doctors who looked at my last two VAP tests and they both suggested that I start statins as soon as possible. They are both doctors who specialize in lipids and also believe in not eating carbs sugar etc. They both want me to take a NMR test which would give them a clearer picture of what is going on. I have lost 25 lbs. over the last year. Do you think that after a year of losing weight it would still have an effect on my numbers? They are worried about apo B which I guess is why they want to see NMR. I don't mind taking the statin if I really need it but I am worried that if my apoB is high because of weight loss I am making a big mistake because once I start there will be reason to be taken off of them. I am also worried that if I don't take the statin now, if I wait another 6 months for another test, I am risking my health. I am 59 with two young children.
    Thanks

  • Jack Kronk

    9/21/2011 2:55:39 PM |

    ApoE2? I thought I was more in the running for ApoE4. Isn't 4 the one where it gets a bit dicey with dietary fats?

    Also, kidney disease? what makes you say that. I have had 7 kidney stones (all calcium oxalate. all "pre paleo").  I have several hypotheses about why I don't get them anymore, but my best guess is due to the increase in VitK2, since K2 sort of 'directs' where calcium goes. So I figured my kidneys were much happier with my new diet than with my SAD.

    As for excessive carbohydrate intake, yah that may be true, but I think you make an important reference about genetic susceptibility, as many people can do just fine with my carb intake as it does not produce these numbers for them.

    We have some interesting things brewing over there on PaleoHacks about what might be affecting my lipids. Travis Culp is kind of leading the charge right now and Dr K is in the mix as well.

    http://paleohacks.com/questions/66154/medium-chain-fatty-acids-appear-to-raise-vldl-triglycerides

    Thanks for your thoughts Doc.

    -JK

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/21/2011 9:36:04 PM |

    Hi, Jack--

    If the 150 grams carbohydrates mentioned in the blog post was referring to your intake, then that is definitely at least part, if not all. of the underlying cause.

    Apo E2 would serve to exaggerate this effect, mostly by way of delayed clearance of postprandial lipoproteins. This could be apo E4 but it would be a very atypical pattern, since there are low HDL/high triglycerides.

    Kidney stones in and of themselves would be insufficient; it would have to involve overt kidney dysfunction.

    Anyway, please let me know what comes of this.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/21/2011 9:40:23 PM |

    Hi, Bob--

    It's not so much the period of time required to lose the weight, but whether the blood was drawn too soon (less than 2 months) after weight plateaued. If drawn too soon, it will yield confusing or alarming numbers to the weight loss-uninitiated.

    Getting an NMR is always a good idea, since it yields the most confident value, LDL particle number.

    Have you gotten a heart scan? Remember, it's more about coronary plaque than about calculated LDL or apo B.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/21/2011 9:42:40 PM |

    Hi, Ellen--

    Surprising, isn't it? Perhaps it's something we should do!

    Anyway, it is critical to recognize this, else people get mad and throw things and think that the diet is destructive when, in reality, it works like crazy--if you know when to draw the blood sample.

  • Bob

    9/21/2011 10:28:03 PM |

    Dr. Davis,
    I had a heart scan thanks to your blog about 4 years ago with a score of zero. At the time I was on Lipitor following low carb diet but with little sat. fat. I was mostly eating skinless chicken, salmon with mayo. Now I am on high sat. fat diet. Beef and more beef. My weight is still dropping. I started at 186 and now I am 159. I have no idea when my weight will plateau. I feel I am in a bad position as two lipid doctors feel I should be on statins now yet I believe the numbers are not accurate because of the weight loss. If I wait for weight loss to stop I may be putting myself at risk but I don't want to go on statins if not necessary.
    Tomorrow I am planning on the NMR test.
    Thanks

  • Gene K

    9/22/2011 2:25:42 AM |

    Since I consistently get a server error trying to post this comment to the small LDL post, I am posting it here.

    Dr Davis,

    Do you think at some point you will drop the TYP target for LDL to be 700 or less in favour of a target amount or percentage of small LDL?

    Thank you.

  • Kat

    9/22/2011 8:38:16 PM |

    I've got to show this article to my mom. My mom has struggled with her weight for a long time. Her doctor told her she would give her 6 months to try and improve her numbers through diet and exercise. If they didn't go down she would have to start taking statins which my mom did not want to do. My mom did manage to lose a considerable amount of weight (about 50 pounds) in that 6 months period. She went to see her doctor, had a lipid panel done and the doc said her lipid panel numbers were worst than before. The doctor blamed her for not eating the right stuff  and said she needed to start statins now or die. It really scared my mom and she got frustrated. She ended up taking the statins because she didn't feel she had a choice and reverted back to her old lifestyle. Maybe if she knew this information she wouldn't have been so discouraged.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/23/2011 12:35:53 AM |

    Oh, boy, Kat. It sounds like this is precisely what happened.

    I truly find it incredible that weight loss for my colleagues is such an uncommon thing that they don't even recognize it.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/23/2011 12:37:46 AM |

    Hi, Gene--

    Yes, I am trending in that direction. However, it remains unclear what the safe threshold is for LDL particle number or apo B when small LDL is minimized or eliminated. BIG question with no current answer.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/23/2011 12:47:36 AM |

    Hi, Bob--

    Be careful: Even the NMR is subject to the confusing and transient changes that occur during weight loss. In fact, you can observe these effects in ALL lipoprotein testing techniques.

    I know of no way to subtract the effect of weight loss except to be patient and wait for weight to plateau.

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/23/2011 12:49:06 AM |

    Donald--

    I loved your comment so much I'd like to make it the focus of a blog post!

  • Tom

    9/24/2011 3:17:32 PM |

    I' ve cut out wheat from my diet and my wheat belly has disappeared. Unfortunately there is still fat around the hips/thighs. Still, I'm very pleased. Thanks!

  • Dr. William Davis

    9/25/2011 12:08:12 AM |

    Great, Tom!

    Just be patient. It tends to come with time.

  • Suze

    10/2/2011 1:31:41 PM |

    This post brought tears to my eyes. Thank you SO VERY MUCH for posting this. I have been going crazy trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
    I went to see my doc in mid-June, who put me on lovastatin (added to blood pressure meds, Ambien, and Prilosec). He had done labs and was unhappy with my cholesterol.
    I went on low carb in early June, about a week before the doc visit. I have done low carb before and knew it would drop my cholesterol, but went along for now. For 6 weeks all was fine and I lost nearly 20 pounds. Started feeling better - was able to get off Ambien and sleep better. Was able to stop the Prilosec also (my GERD disappeared). Because I was trying to get into ketosis to burn fat, I was monitoring my blood sugar. At about 6 weeks into it, I hit a stall and have had to fight like heck to keep losing any weight. But the worst part (for me) was my glucose level. Inexplicably, my fasting glucose crept up just over 100 and stayed there most days. I was horrified - I was not eating any excess sugars, in fact, trying to stay under 20-30 carbs a day. I am a nurse and I know what a fasting glucose over 100 will get me diagnosed with - diabetes. My goal is to get OFF all meds, not get labeled with diabetes and put on more of them. To top it off, my doc wanted new labs after 6 weeks on lovastatin, and I refuse to go until I figured out what the heck was going on with my glucose and fixed the problem. My doc is nice, but I highly doubt he is evolved enough to listen to this argument. He still subscribes to the high cholesterol theory of heart disease, after all.
    I Googled my head off and tried to figure it out. Lots of theories out there. I tried all kinds of supplements supposed to regulate your glucose, and experimented with timing of food and activity. Even stranger, my glucose would RISE after exercise in the morning (still fasting!), but lower if done in the afternoon. I thought maybe I wasn't eating enough carbs and my liver was kicking out glycogen during the night. The day I came home from work after a just-over-100 fasting that morning and checked my glucose and it was 90 (!) 4 hours after lunch, I wanted to go get the damn labs done, but they were closed.
    I knew blood pressure, cholesterol levels and glucose are all tied together, but it had not occurred to me that losing weight mobilized fats into the bloodstream and may be behind my glucose being a pain. Makes me wonder what the lovastatin did for the 60 days I was on it, lol. But my dilemma is that to find out, if I go with an elevated glucose, I will be hosed. :-( So I guess I'll go find a home cholesterol kit and see, and be patient on the glucose issue.
    I also found some interesting info on low stomach acid - I had been on Tums, Zantac and then Prilosec for some time, and I found my glucose issues started around the time I *stopped* taking that stuff... More food for thought.
    Anyway, thank you so much for posting this - at least I am not in a panic at the moment. I am not done yet, though - I still have about 45-50 pounds to go. I am not sure I can hold off the labs that long. I plan to keep an eye on my fasting (97 this morning) and when it's well under 100 will try to get the damn labs done.

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/2/2011 2:32:28 PM |

    That's great, Suze!

    Yes, we have to be properly armed against our doctors!

  • Kelly

    10/9/2011 1:09:15 PM |

    What defines a weight plateau? I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes while pregnant. I left the hospital 20 pounds lighter than I was pre-pregnancy thanks to a lower-carb diet. Over the next 6 months, I lost an additional 25-30 pounds. I'm not losing weight drastically any longer -- I'm now well within the "normal" range for my BMI. However I am still dropping a pound or two every month or so (still breastfeeding). When I tested my blood sugar about 4 months ago, my fasting number was 104. I'm now 11 months postpartum, so its been about 5 months of very gradual weight loss. Would this still change my numbers because I'm technically still losing weight?

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/9/2011 10:59:32 PM |

    Probably not, Kelly.

    I don't know why, but weight loss that has "decelerated" to this degree seems to not be associated with distortion of metabolic markers. It doesn't mean that continued weight loss won't yield further improvement, but that the current numbers are indeed true.

  • DanD

    10/12/2011 4:48:46 PM |

    Donald, congratulations on these tremendous improvements.  Your experience makes me think that I can do the same if I keep at it.

  • Wanda E

    10/18/2011 1:59:06 PM |

    Dr. Davis, I really appreciate all the work you put into the Wheat Belly book.  It is an eye opener.  I have a question.  My husband is diabetic (2 shots per day) also he has Mysenthia Gravis.  Do you have any information regarding Mysenthia Gravis.  Will  eliminating wheat help get rid of or lessen the effects of this disease.  My husband and I are deleting the wheat and i already feel better.  Thank you.

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/19/2011 1:28:44 AM |

    Thanks. Wanda.

    There are, unfortunately, no formal clinical observations that combine wheat/gluten elimination with markers for myasthenia gravis.

    On the most anecdotal level, I have one patient with myasthenia gravis who tells me that her symptoms are substantially improved, though not entirely relieved, with wheat elimination. This seems to be true of nearly all neurologic phenomena that do not have wheat as their original cause: at least partial improvement.

    It is certainly worth trying for this as well as a host of other reasons.

  • Jo

    10/22/2011 2:25:09 AM |

    Thank you for posting this. I think I'm going through this right now. I've lost 63 lbs since being diagnosed with DM last Nov and my A1C is down to 5.5 from over 13.3.  My weight loss has slowed to about 5 lbs per month now and I have low thyroid symptoms but all my doctor cares about is putting me on statins. I'm seeing a new doc next month to try to get more than a TSH test but I know he's going to be concerned about my lipid profile, too. I'm going to ask for either a VAP or NMR test. I don't know how bad these numbers really are but they made the last doctor flip out. I keep under 30 carbs per day, am off all wheat now, and walk at least a mile a day. Here are the most recent numbers and the change from 8 months ago:
    Total: 338 (+58)
    Trigs: 138 (-39)
    HDL: 50 (+10)
    VLDL: 35 (+4)
    LDL: 253 (+44)
    %HDL: 15 (+1)
    Chol:HDL Ratio: 7 (no change)

    I'm not sure what to do in the meantime while I wait for the next appointment, other than be patient, but I'm going to print this post out, anyway.

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/22/2011 12:42:39 PM |

    Very nice result on your weight and diabetes, Jo!

    It looks like you have a genetically-determined pattern, either familial heterozygous hypercholesterolemia and/or apo E4. Sadly, in this situation, diet efforts cannot fully disable the impaired handling of fats that arises from these genetic variants. Statins in this case may not be a bad idea. You may be the occasional exception. Statins are overused and abused, but your situation is one in which they may be appropriate.

  • Suze

    10/23/2011 3:34:55 PM |

    Well, I finally went to get the labs done, and it's a mixed result. After 4 months on low carb and nearly wheat-free:
    cholesterol - 368 to 282 (-86)
    HDL - 40 to 61 (+21 :-D)
    LDL - 287 to 185 (-102)
    ratio - 9.2 to 4.6 (cut in half!)
    VLDL - 41 to 36 (-5)
    triglycerides - 207 to 179 (-28)
    Pretty good improvement in 4 months, I think. The first two months I was on lovastatin, and the last two months, all diet/exercise. I really do not want to go back on statins.
    However, my fasting glucose was 104, despite my efforts to get it lower before getting labs. Now I will have to argue with my doc, I am sure. I got an A1c and it was 5.2, which is totally normal, so at least I am armed with something!!!
    Suze

  • Suze

    10/23/2011 4:04:17 PM |

    P.S. - I have also lost almost 30 pounds!
    And - I just ordered Wheat Belly to read on my Nook. I can't wait! I think you are SO right about all of this!

  • Dr. William Davis

    10/23/2011 11:46:11 PM |

    Wow, Suze!

    Stupendous progress! Keep going.

Loading