D2 and D3 are two different things

Helena posted this instructive comment in response to the Heart Scan Blog post, Weight loss and vitamin D. It illustrates the confusion common among physicians and pharmacists on the differences between D2 and D3.

(Edited slightly for clarity.)

Not many weeks ago a colleague of mine (let’s call him Eric) asked me if I knew the difference between D2 and D3 and I told Eric that D2 comes from irradiated mushrooms and D3 comes from wool. In other words, D3 is the same kind of vitamin as humans get from the sun. Humans just don’t get enough and we can’t produce it on our own, like the sheep can. (D3 is natural for humans, D2 is not.)

After telling Eric this, he asked me how he would know what he is taking and I gave him the medical definitions of them both (D2 = Ergocalciferol; D3 = Cholecaliciferol). Since I was aware that he had gotten his Vitamin D by prescription, I told him “I am 99.9% sure that you are taking D2, but I would be thrilled to find out I am wrong.”

Eric called his pharmacy right away and got the answer I was expecting: ergocalciferol. On confronting the person Eric was talking to, the answer he got back was that Ergocalciferol is the only Vitamin D they are giving out.

A week later, Eric had a new appointment with his doctor and decided to ask him about the D2/D3 issue. The doctor said he knew that there was a difference in them both, but could not say what, not even the basic facts I mentioned above. But the doctor stamped a post-it with what he had sent to the pharmacy just to show Eric. “Vitamin D3; 50,000IU tab” is what the stamp said.

Eric, off course, got confused and was starting to believe that the pharmacy had made a mistake by giving him Ergocalciferol (D2) since the doctor had given him D3, or at least that is what was stamped on the little note he had.

Today, after getting a refill of his Vitamin D he also got and kept all his paperwork that came along with it. Still believing that stamp the doctor had given Eric earlier, he asked me to double and triple check that my definition of D2 and D3 was correct. I did, just for my own sanity, and I was still right.

One of the sheets Eric brought me today was the “Patient Education Monograph” sheet stating the drugs and how to use it and so on. The thing that jumped out the most to me was this:

Generic Name: Vitamin D – Oral
Common Brand name(s): Drisdol, Maximum D3
Identification: PA140 Green Oval Capsule

This is the Drug Eric was given: Vitamin D 1.25 MG softgel; Generic name: Ergocalciferol

My researching mind went into high concentration mood and I started to dig. And this is what I found:

The brand name Drisdol is Ergocalciferol (D2), not D3. The Brand name Maximum D3 seems to be hard to find out there in cyber space as a brand name. But the ones I found that were called Maximum D3 seems to be the real stuff, however none of them required a prescription.

When trying to find out through the identification number on the pills (PA140) I now know for sure that Eric is taking Vitamin D2 and not the preferred Vitamin D3. The brand name, Drisdol, had the identification W on one side and D92 on the other, but it is still Ergocalciferol.

The only conclusion I can draw from all this is that the medical industry does not know or care about the difference in D2 and D3 – it is all same to them. And as long as the pharmacies only give out D2 it does not matter what the doctor prescribe anyway.

I know that people are most likely to be prescribed a D2 pill than to be told to buy over-the-counter D3. But it was almost heart breaking to see the letter D and number 3 right next to the drug Drisdol, as we know is a D2 vitamin. It just didn’t make sense to me that they can be labeled as the same type of medication, when we know it is not!



Incredible.

Why prescribe plant form D2 when you can get perfectly reliable, safe, effective D3--the human form, at the health food store for about $6?

Once again, it's the peculiar false bias of physicians and pharmacists: If it's prescription, it must be good; if it comes from a health food store, it must be bogus.

Humans need human vitamin D. Plain and simple.

For more on the D2 vs. D3 issue, see the Heart Scan Post, The case against vitamin D2.

Weight loss: Different causes, different solutions

Heart Scan Blog reader, Kris, related this enlightening story of weight loss (slightly edited for clarity).

Kris learned that excess weight is gained through multiple causes. The solutions are therefore multiple, not just one change in diet or two.


I started studying about my thyroid issue much earlier and did lose some weight. But ever since I started following Dr. Davis’s blog, it has given me confidence that I was on the right track. I did have my thyroid and iodine figured out from other sources, but Dr. Davis helped me to understand the issues with not only the thyroid but vitamin D3, fructose, fish oil, niacin, wheat etc. I have lost 43lb in last 14 months.

It seems to me that there are certain percentages of weight connected with different issues. For example, after I gave up alcohol and sugar, I lost about 14lbs from total weight of 243lbs, weight came down to about 229lb. Then it stopped at 229lb, even though I was in the gym almost 5 to 6 days a week with full workouts.

After I changed my thyroid medication to natural thyroid hormones (took synthetic T4 for over 10 years), the weight dropped down further 13lbs or so in matter of few days, shape of the face changed from moon shape/double chin to ordinary long face. Then it kind of stopped at around 213-216 lbs.

After giving up wheat, reducing carbs, increasing protein intake (whey protein, chicken etc. no soya, no fructose) the weight came down another 14lbs. Now it is around 200-202lbs and I am over 6.2 tall with heavy set of bones.

I feel better than I have ever in my life. More stamina, more clarity/no fog, more confidence and 99% of the time relaxed and being able to see the situation from multiple angles.

I use to be able to drink a liter or more jack denial without a problem in one evening but now can’t stand half a can of beer (I miss JD). Drinking alcohol makes me sick. I sleep well and if I wake up in the middle of the night, I have no problem going back to sleep. No more out of breath stair climbing at all.

One other thing: I used to be the most attractive meal to the mosquitoes, but not anymore. This year I haven’t been bitten once. I take my dog to the park everyday and I do not use any mosquito repellent, what a relief. I don’t know if it is because of thyroid, iodine, wheat or something else. Skin texture has changed dramatically. I do not use full soap or shampoo, 20% borax, 10 percent of my soap or shampoo for scent and rest water, mixed in a 500ml bottle. No more dandruff, dry skin, pimples for me.

Dr. Davis I am thankful to people like you who have the ability to see beyond what you have been taught and have the guts to say the way it is. Most of us work to make living on daily basis but some make their living while spreading their knowledge to save lives. Dr Davis you are one of those few people. Please keep it going.

Calling all losers!

I'd like to invite anyone who has followed the Track Your Plaque Break the Weight Barrier program to consider posting their stories and photos on the Heart Scan Blog.

Because our focus is prevention and reversal of coronary heart disease, we have not made an effort to catalog the weight loss experience that people have while on the program. For many, weight loss has been substantial. (Several people this week alone have reported weight loss of 9 to 46 lbs in the past 6 months.)

It would be helpful to hear and see these results.

For those of you who don't mind having a story and photo on this Blog, please come back in future to post your results. You will find this post by entering "weight loss" into the site-specific search bar at the top of the page.

Weight loss and vitamin D

At the start of her program, Penny's 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood level showed the usual deficiency at 22 ng/ml.

She supplemented with 8000 units of vitamin D. Another 25-hydroxy vitamin D blood level several months later showed a level of 67.8 ng/ml, right on target.

But Penny also began our diet, including the elimination of wheat, cornstarch, and sugars, and, over 6 months, lost 34 lbs.

Now a much trimmer 146 lbs (still more to go!), another vitamin D blood level: 111 ng/ml.

Penny's weight loss means that the vitamin D is distributed in a smaller total volume, particularly a lower volume of fat.

This is a common phenomenon with substantial weight loss: lose weight and the need for vitamin D is reduced. The reduction in dose is roughly proportion to the weight lost. Vitamin D should therefore be reassessed with any substantial change in weight of, say, 10 lbs or more, either up or down, because of the influence of fat on vitamin D blood levels.

Some references on this effect:

Men and women over age 65:
Adiposity in relation to vitamin D status and parathyroid hormone levels: a population-based study in older men and women.

Obese women:
Low 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations in obese women: their clinical significance and relationship with anthropometric and body composition variables

Obese children:
Hypovitaminosis D in obese children and adolescents: relationship with adiposity, insulin sensitivity, ethnicity, and season.

African-Americans:
Relationship of vitamin D and parathyroid hormone to obesity and body composition in African Americans.

Although the bulk of the effect is most likely due to sequestration by fatty tissue, perhaps less sun exposure in obese people also contributes:
Body mass index determines sunbathing habits: implications on vitamin D levels.

Grasscutting, fertilizer, and healthcare

A guy named Jeff, a 60-something, taciturn, "How 'bout dem Brewers?" kind of guy, cuts my grass.

Once a week, Jeff drives over his rust-rimmed 1994 Chevy pickup and trailer, unloads his ride mower, and cuts the grass. For his 40 minutes of work, I pay him $35.

For $35, all he does is cut the grass--no trimming, no picking up debris, no working in the garden, no fertilizing, no weeding. Just cutting the grass. Occasionally, Jeff has proven to be a useful resource for peculiar problems. Last year, I had a drainage problem that he helped solve and two years ago he helped diagnose a tree disease that was killing a tree in the backyard; it's now recovered.

To save money, and because I like to work in the yard, I do the rest. I trim the edges, I fertilize the grass, plant new flowers and trees, fix damaged areas, trim wild branches.

In my view, my relationship with Jeff, a limited, as-needed relationship, in which I ask him to help with specific issues but I manage the rest myself, is how I believe that healthcare should also be conducted.

Your doctor should be like Jeff: Perhaps not taciturn, but an as-needed resource available while you do much of the work.

My simple relationship with Jeff is, I believe, the healthcare model of the future. You manage your own cholesterol issues, your own basic thyroid issues, supplement and monitor your vitamin D levels, use diet to suit your needs, order blood tests when necessary, even obtain basic imaging tests like heart scans, carotid ultrasound, bone density testing. Your doctor is a resource, near by when and if you need him or her: guidance when needed, an occasional review of what you are doing, someone to consult when you fracture an ankle.

What your doctor is NOT is a paternal, "do what I say, I'm the doctor," or a "You need these tests whether you like it or not" holder of your health fate.

It is a model of healthcare that will evolve over the next 20-30 years, only in its infancy now.

While we started Track Your Plaque as just a resource for in-depth information on prevention and reversal of coronary heart disease, I now see it as something much greater: a prototype for the emerging concept of self-directed health.

Enough for now. I've got some tomatoes to pick.

Iodine deficiency is REAL

Like many health-conscious people, Kurt avoids salt. In fact, he has assiduously avoided salt ever since his heart attack back in 1995.

Lately, Kurt had become tired, often for little or no reason. His thyroid panel:

TSH 4.2 mIU/L (0.27-4.20)
Free T3 1.74 pg/ml (2.50-4.30)
Free T4 1.05 ng/dl (0.9-1.7)

Kurt's TSH of 4.2 mIU/L is sufficient to increase LDL cholesterol by 20-30% and increase the (relative) risk for heart attack 3-fold.

Kurt's thyroid was also palpably enlarged. While it was just barely visible--just a minor bulge in the neck (in the shape of a bowtie), it could be clearly felt when I examined him.

I asked Kurt to add 500 mcg of iodine every day. Three months later, another thyroid panel showed:

TSH 0.14 mIU/L (0.27-4.20)
Free T3 2.50 pg/ml (2.50-4.30)
Free T4 1.1 ng/dl (0.9-1.7)

Kurt's thyroid function normalized to nearly ideal levels just with iodine replacement. (The free T3, while improved, remains low; an issue for another day!)

I see this response with some frequency: low-grade goiter and apparent hypothyroidism (low thyroid function) that responds, at least partially, to iodine replacement. In Kurt's case, iodine replacement alone normalized his thyroid measures completely.

With improved thyroid measures, Kurt also felt better with renewed energy and a 22 mg/dl reduction in LDL cholesterol.

Make no mistake: Iodine deficiency is real. While most of my colleagues have dismissed iodine deficiency as a relic of the early 20th century and third world countries, you can also find it in your neighborhood.

Fish oil for $780 per bottle

At prevailing pharmacy prices, one capsule of prescription Lovaza fish oil costs $4.33 each.

Yes, you heard right: $4.33 per capsule.

What do you get for $4.33 per capsule? By omega-3 fatty acid content, you get 842 mg EPA + DHA per capsule.

I can also go to Sam's Club and buy a bottle of their Triple-Strength fish oil with 900 mg omega-3 fatty acids per capsule at $18.99 per bottle of 180 capsules. That comes to 10.5 cents per capsule. That puts the price of fish oil from Sam's Club at 97.6% less cost compared to Lovaza for an equivalent quantity of omega-3 fatty acids.

What if we repriced Sam's Club's Triple-Strength and brought it "in line" with what we pay for Lovaza? That would put the value of one bottle of Sam's Club Triple-Strength fish oil at $780 per bottle.

I take patients off Lovaza every chance I get.

Organic really IS better

If you have any doubts about the value of organic foods vs. conventionally-grown foods, then take a look at the findings from a USDA--Yes, USDA--sponsored study.

In this study, the nutritional content of organic vs. conventionally-grown blueberries were compared. Ironically, these observations come from the USDA's Genetic Improvement of Fruits and Vegetables Laboratory of the Produce Quality and Safety Laboratory.

Their findings (all values expressed as weight per 100 grams fresh weight blueberries, or a bit less than 1/4 cup):


Total phenol content (e.g, flavonoids):

Organic: 319.3 mg
Conventional: 190.3 mg

Organic blueberries had 68% greater phenol content.


Total anthocyanins (an important class of flavonoids):

Organic: 131.2 mg
Conventional: 82.4 mg

Organic blueberries had 59% greater anthocyanin content.


Antioxidant capacity (ORAC):

Organic: 46.14 mg
Conventional: 30.8

Organic blueberries had 50% greater antioxidant capacity.


Flavonoids suspected to carry unusually potent health effects--malvidin, delphinidin, myricetin, and quercetin--were all contained in greater proportions in the organically-grown blueberries, also. These flavonoids are demonstrating pharmacologic-level health effects in preliminary studies.

Why a genetics laboratory? After all , the study findings came out heavily in favor of non-genetic, organic farming methods of growing produce. It certainly must have at least given pause to the vocal group within agriculture and the USDA that have long argued that organic produce is no different. I suspect that the laboratory will now try to recreate the nutritional value of organic through genetic manipulation of cultivars grown using conventional methods.

Regardless of the motivations behind the study, we see that there is no comparison: organic blueberries are superior in nutritional value to those grown with conventional pesticides and herbicides. While the study addressed only blueberries, the dramatic difference makes it likely that similar differences exist in other fruits and vegetables.

Coming on the Track Your Plaque website: An in-depth Special Report on the health effects of anthocyanins.

Do you really need calcium?

Why are we advised to take calcium supplements?

Men and women are advised to take calcium because it has been shown to reduce blood pressure modestly. Women, in particular, can stall the deterioration of bone strength (mineralization) by taking calcium supplements, 1200-1300 mg per day, and eating calcium-rich foods like dairy products.

Is that all true?

It is true insofar as we remain vitamin D deficient. A funny thing happens when you fully replete vitamin D: Intestinal absorption of calcium as much as quadruples. That means your body will efficiently absorb the calcium in broccoli and spinach.

Is it still necessary to force-feed your body megadoses of calcium once vitamin D has been repleted? I don’t think so.

While the evidence is indirect, several observations point towards the lack of necessity of calcium once vitamin D is addressed.
For instance:

Women who take calcium, 1200 mg per day, with vitamin D, 800 units per day, double their five-year risk for heart attack, according to a New Zealand study.

Men who take calcium, 1200 mg per day, with vitamin D, 800 units per day, also may substantially increase heart attack risk.

Bone density increases more with vitamin D than with calcium. Calcium may not even be necessary to increase bone mineralization, since there are data to suggest that vitamin D can accomplish this by itself.

Calcium suppresses parathyroid hormone, PTH. That is, in fact, how calcium stalls (usually does not reverse) bone mineral loss-not by adding calcium to bone, but by suppressing PTH release. (PTH causes bone demineralization.) Vitamin D suppresses PTH to a far greater degree than calcium.

What is needed is a broad reconsideration of the advice everyone is getting to take calcium. In an age when more and more people are appreciating the power of vitamin D supplementation to achieve normal blood levels, there may be danger ahead for those who fail to address their calcium overdosing.

The case against vitamin D2

Why would vitamin D be prescribed when vitamin D3 is available over-the-counter?

Let's review the known differences between vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol) and vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol):

--D3 is the human form; D2 is the non-human form found in plants.

--Dose for dose, D3 is more effective at raising blood levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D than D2. It requires roughly twice to 250% of the dose of D2 to match that of D3 (Trang H et al 1998).

--D2 blood levels don't yield long-term sustained levels of 25-hydroxy vitamin D as does D3. When examined as a 28-day area under the curve (AUC--a superior measure of biologic exposure), D3 yields better than a 300% increased potency compared to D2. This means that it requires around 50,000 units D2 to match the effects of 15,000 units D3 (Armas LA et al 2004).

--D2 has lower binding affinity for vitamin D-binding protein, compared to D3

--Mitochondrial vitamin D 25-hydroxylase converts D3 to the 25-hydroxylated form five times more rapidly than D2.

--As we age, the ability to metabolize D2 is dramatically reduced, while D3 is not subject to this phenomenon (Harris SS et al 2002).




From Armas LA, Hollis BW, Heaney RP 2004


While there are dissenters on this view, the bulk of evidence suggests that D2 is an inferior form of D3.

Then why is D2 prescribed by many doctors when the natural, human, and superior D3 is available over-the-counter?

You already know the answer: Much of your doctor's education did not come from scientific lectures nor from reading scientific studies. It came from the pretty drug representative in the waiting room who hands the doctor reprints of the "studies" performed by the drug industry to support the use of their drugs. There is no such nutritional supplement representative in the waiting room. This preference for the "drug" D2 over the supplement D3 also stems from the inherent preference of physicians for things they can control, whether or not there is proof of superiority.

In my view, there is absolutely no reason to take vitamin D2 over D3 except to enrich the drug industry.
High blood pressure vanquished

High blood pressure vanquished

Heart Scan Blog reader, Eric, related his blood pressure success story to me:

I'm 34 and have been battling chronic hypertension (systolic 150-200, depending on my anxiety levels) even with multiple prescriptions for over a decade now. I've seen four different cardiologists, all stumped as to what is causing my hypertension. First, they suspected coarctation of my aorta [a constriction in the aorta], but an angiogram determined blood pressure readings were the same on both sides of the narrowing.

The second angiogram performed last year to determine if my coarct had worsened determined that it had not, but that my aorta had calcium build up. The cardiologist was stumped because he told me he hasn't seen calcium in a patient so young. Needless to say, this scared me to death, with my wife being pregnant with our first child. I asked if it could be reversed and he didn't know so he sent me to get a Berkeley lab.

The Berkeley came back with LDL 91, HDL 41, Triglycerides 73, CRP 4.1, vit D 26. The doctors weren't very knowledgeable about explaining to me what these meant and how I could correct the low vit D and high CRP. They told me to follow the low-fat diet recommended by Berkeley. Well I've already tried the DASH diet and didn't like how I felt or my energy levels, so I didn't transition.

I was at a loss until I encountered your blog and it was truly a gift. It was a refreshing feeling to meet a knowledgeable Dr. who knew what I was going through and seems to truly care about reversing calcium in the heart (something I never got from my any of my cardiologists). With your blog I have an appointment to get a heart scan here in CO and take that number along with my Berkeley results and join Track Your Plaque.

For the past 2 weeks I've been following your advice by taking a D3+K2 supplement with Omega3 Fish oil and avoiding all grain, wheat, sugar and I'm already down 4lbs to 223.5lbs at 6'5" tall and my blood pressure readings have been 128/54 and 129/60 the past 2 days! With your help I may not have the dark future my father had: dead at 48 with a massive heart attack.

Stay on the look out because I look forward to telling you how I'm one of your top calcium losers!

Eric, Colorado


Conventional medical care fails at so many levels for so many people. While Eric's doctors were busy contemplating the next angiogram, they were neglecting several crucial aspects of his health.

It's really not that tough. But it can mean doing the opposite of what conventional "wisdom" tell us.

Comments (28) -

  • Kurt

    1/19/2011 3:40:59 PM |

    Slightly off topic, but I'm wondering if you've had patients complain of sleeplessness when they take Vitamin D. I take 1000iu in the morning; if I take more, I can't get to sleep at night.

  • Patty

    1/19/2011 3:51:39 PM |

    Congratulations to Eric! That is an incredible improvement in your blood pressure.  And I am very happy for you and your family.  

    Thanks Dr. Davis,  for continuing to share these amazing stories.

  • Anonymous

    1/19/2011 4:35:03 PM |

    I've just learned the hard way that HTN in someone young, that has to be treated with multiple meds, can sometimes be caused by a condition called primary aldosteronism.

    Eric, if your docs have not tested your plasma aldosterone and plasma renin activity, *please* ask them to.

  • Anonymous

    1/19/2011 5:06:59 PM |

    Blood pressure is related to the relative tension of the blood vessels.  So, how does that relate to the buildup of plaque?

    Is it that relaxed cells are less likely to allow plaque to adhere/incorporate?

    I have low blood pressure; sometimes 90/60.  However, I don't feel that means my risks of plaque buildup can be ignored or can it?

  • Eric

    1/19/2011 5:16:21 PM |

    Thanks for the super kind words Patty- I'm feeling better than I have in a long time!

    I'll have to see if my plasma aldosterone and plasma renin have been tested. I know my potassium levels get low, but not sure if it's related to the HCTZ Rx or not. Thanks for the heads up though!

    As far as blood pressure and plaque- I was advised that the many years my BP was uncontrolled it caused calcification of my aorta (plaque). Not sure if this is correct, Dr. D would be the expert on this. I am getting my calcium score done on Tuesday, but I know I have calcium build up based on the angiogram images.

  • Anonymous

    1/19/2011 6:50:10 PM |

    Eric, low potassium combined with HTN is often the first indicator of an aldosterone problem. They thought my low K was related to the HCTZ that I took for some 5 years, but it turned out that the other med I was on - Diovan - masked the issue.

    Most primary care docs haven't even heard of primary aldosteronism (or they don't remember the five minutes they spent on it in med school) so they don't routinely order the test. Which is a shame, because some of us spend years misdiagnosed with primary HTN when our HTN is really secondary to the aldosterone issue.

  • Eric

    1/19/2011 7:03:30 PM |

    That is crazy- during the years I have researched many secondary causes and don't remember even reading about Primary Aldosteronsim.

    How did they finally determine it was this and what treatment did you receive for it? Thanks for the info.

  • Bean

    1/19/2011 8:23:05 PM |

    Hey Doc
    Can you bring us up to speed on K2 supplementation.  I saw your "nasty natto" post from a few years ago about how it might be promising treatment but back then it was still too early to tell.. What have you learned since then? How/when do you prescribe it?  Are there particular brands you recommend?
    Thanks for this great blog and for your tenacity in speaking truth to power.

  • Apolloswabbie

    1/19/2011 9:30:49 PM |

    Awesome work and inspiring for many who no doubt also felt as thought they had no option to restore their health.  I meet these people all the time, and many are so frustrated they are no longer taking in new information; but for the ones who will try, transformation awaits.

  • Anonymous

    1/19/2011 10:26:22 PM |

    Hi Eric - regarding primary aldosteronism, I'm only in the first stage of being diagnosed, but here's what I know. The causes are most often an adrenal tumor (in which case they remove the entire gland, at least in the U.S.) or less commonly, a condition known as bilateral hyperplasia, which affects both adrenals. For the latter, they can't do surgery; usually the protocol is spironolactone and a low-salt diet for life. There's also a third possibility, a very rare condition known as GRA that requires meds. I don't know which of these I am yet - I'm waiting for the insurance company to approve further testing.

    In over 9 years of unexplained HTN, I hadn't heard of it either despite lots of research (hey, I'm a trained librarian!). I got lucky - in October I changed primary care doctors and the new doc immediately referred me to a specialist. Both recognized the high BP/low K as symptoms of PA. The high aldosterone/low renin was confirmed by a blood test. Next test is a CT scan to see if there is a tumor.

  • Andrew

    1/19/2011 11:30:28 PM |

    From Wikipedia:

    "CRP is a general marker for inflammation and infection, so it can be used as a very rough proxy for heart disease risk. Since many things can cause elevated CRP, this is not a very specific prognostic indicator. Nevertheless, a level above 2.4 mg/l has been associated with a doubled risk of a coronary event compared to levels below 1 mg/l"

    also:

    "CRP is associated with lipid responses to low-fat and high-polyunsaturated fat diets."

    Hopefully, your CRP levels have fallen along with the blood pressure.

  • Dr. William Davis

    1/19/2011 11:30:43 PM |

    Hi, Kurt--

    Yes, some people are very sensitive to the effect.

    The only way I know to deal with it is to increase dose to the desired level very, very gradually, e.g., additional 1000 units every 3-6 months.

  • Anne

    1/20/2011 11:23:00 AM |

    Slightly off topic here too - has anyone info on Hyperalphalipoproteinemia. That is high cholesterol due to high HDL. Does anyone know the figures for a typical lipid profile for a diagnosis of Hyperalphalipoproteinemia ?

    Many thanks in advance

  • Davide

    1/20/2011 2:00:25 PM |

    I'm just curious what exactly caused Eric's BP to drop in such a short period of time. Obviously, the diet changes and supplementation lead to it, but what did those things do to cause the change?

  • Gillian

    1/20/2011 2:30:56 PM |

    Dr Davis,
    I also would like to know what K2 supplement you recommend nowadays..?

  • Eric

    1/20/2011 4:25:45 PM |

    Bean & Gillian-

    Dr. Davis advised me on Track Your Plaque that he is recommending 1,000mg/day of K2 that has a mix of short acting MK4 and long acting MK7. He suggested Life Extension "Super K". Hope this helps.

    http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01224/Super-K-with-Advanced-K2-Complex.html

  • Eric

    1/20/2011 4:29:44 PM |

    Davide- I think it was a combination of diet, supplementation and reduced anxiety.

    When you have a cardiologist tell you he's never seen something like calcium in an aorta, made my anxiety level sky rocket. Especially when they had no clue how to stop or reverse the build up.

    Reading Dr. D's blog and info on Track Your Plaque put control back in my court and that was extremely beneficial to my mental stress.

    It's amazing the biological affects the mind can create.

  • Dream_Puppy

    1/20/2011 6:21:34 PM |

    Dr. Davis,

    Thank you so much for your blog. After your comment on Atenolol I have been inspired to once and for all conquer my insane hypertension. I have a blog to track my progress. I am doing low carb, real food, exercise and a shitload of supplements.

    I'll let you know how it goes.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/20/2011 7:40:37 PM |

    Hyper-alpha-lipo-proteinemia is an uncommon genetic trait detected mostly(?)among the
    Japanese, French Quebequois and South African Boers. One curious
    peculiarity is a thick Achilles tendon; another is women with HDL over 70 mg/dl (men's HDL is more confusing if they drink alcohol).

    Their cholesterol ester transport protein (CETP)is less active. Instead of HDL being able
    to pass cholesterol fractions over to lipoprotein B those esters stay "stuck" in the HDL.

    Person's HDL gets large as it fills with re-cyclable cholesterol. This only becomes problematic when their
    macrophages become overloaded with LDL it (the macrophage) picked up. Those LDL laden macrophages can, in certain individuals, go on to become the
    nefarious foam cells.

    In this case, the "full up" HDL can't "snatch" up much LDL from the "filling up" macrophage. Sure, HDL is around, but there's diminished capacity to "unload".
    I can't say if (or how) CETP can "break down" in a "normal"
    person and cause them to develop
    clinical hyper-alpha-lipoproteimenia.

  • Anne

    1/20/2011 7:51:24 PM |

    Thanks Might-o'chondri-Al ! Most interesting. My HDL is 116 so am wondering if my 'hypercholesterolemia' is due to Hyperalphalipoproteinemia as my trigs are only 36 but total is high at 333. Trying to find out as much as I can....and there isn't much info around.

  • Tami

    1/20/2011 7:57:48 PM |

    @  Might-o'chondri-AL :

    Does that mean japanese people could do bad on a high fat- low carb diet?

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/21/2011 12:48:34 AM |

    Hi Tami,
    Blog being Doc Davis' I won't presume to give dietary advice.
    If you lay out your reasoning maybe readers will try to work  out a good theory with you.

    Hi Anne,
    My favorite cousin's total cholesterol ran over 300 for years; she's 76 - with  medical "help". I think, in the post before this one's comments thread, Doc Davis gives his office phone for arranging paid consultations (a man asked for it). Free internet advice has it's limitations.

  • Anne

    1/21/2011 9:05:59 AM |

    Hi Might-o'chondri-AL,
    Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately !) I live in the United Kingdom so a telephone consult to the US is out, especially as we can't get the same kinds of tests done in the UK that people in the US can get done - believe me I've tried asking for particle size tests and Lp(a) and asked privately, rather than NHS, and still not been able to get them. Ideally I should be able to ask these questions on a UK forum or blog devoted to heart health, but such a forum doesn't exist so I have to rely on the good will of people like you or Dr Davis. If I can get sufficient information to present to my cardiologist then he will do the necessary, I'm absolutely sure of that, I just need a little bit more info !

  • Anonymous

    1/21/2011 1:08:35 PM |

    @ Anne:

    I'd suggest looking for a private lab that tests for as many of the tests as Dr Davis recommends. If Claymon Biominis has branches in the UK, they can do most tests, excluding the advanced lipoprotein testing.

    In the meantime, join the Track Your Plaque site, it costs very little and has wonderful resources, an almost overwhelming array, in fact!

    When you've got your basic tests done, book a cheap flight to the USA and schedule advanced lipoprotein testing, an appt and a heart scan with Dr Davis. That's my plan.

    Good luck!

  • Anne

    1/21/2011 1:53:01 PM |

    Hi Anonymous,

    Private labs in the United Kingdom won't do any of the tests unless a doctor does a bona fide request form. I have private medical care as well as NHS and I cannot get those tests because even though they would be done privately the doc is not prepared to ask for those tests considering them unnecessary.

    Medicine is very different in the UK. Patients are unable to self refer to doctors or to private labs for tests. However, once I have just a little more info - I'm not asking for medical advice at all but just info on how Hyperalphalipoproteinemia is diagnosed - to present to my doctor he will be more likely to look into this.

    Doing phone consults to the US or even flying out there and seeing a US doc would not go down at all well with a doc here in the UK - they are unlikely to take any consultation or tests I have in the US seriously. I know that's a pain, but medicine is more tightly regulated here.

    The internet is great but it has its limitations :-( Sorry for wasting peeps time.

  • Might-o'chondri-AL

    1/21/2011 6:11:43 PM |

    O.K. Anne,
       I don't want to detail how my cousin's life has gone; there is no way to guess it relates to you. If you are young,around 30, you should consider seeking out a medical opinion now; I hear in U.K. you'll get on a waiting list.

    You asked for a symptom for a doctor to look into - your HDL reading is it. IF you already had one who said "never mind & go away" try to see a different doctor for your peace of mind. You can not conclude that you have hyperalphalipoproteinemia just because it might explain your data.  
        
    High HDL in Japanesse was originally seen as a sign of longevity. So researchers figured more of a good thing should mean it's even better. Then the genetics of hyperalphalipoproteinemia was found - in some, not all.

  • Anne

    1/21/2011 6:47:36 PM |

    Yes..I guess I should just go back and ask the doctor to explain the high HDL then and see what he comes up with then...before I start a stain that is !

  • peter

    1/19/2012 8:29:49 AM |

    very helpful: http://itunes.apple.com/pl/app/bloodnote-blood-pressure-control/id493849490?mt=8

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